221 thoughts on “Open Discussion: Week of November 25th”

1. Ahh, Jimmy – always ready with a little nugget for us to ponder….”But, if the Phillies sign a pitcher this week, you didn’t hear it here first.”

   Great way to kick off a fresh week’s worth of hot stove chat….Zach Wheeler? He makes the most sense and the Phillies do not typically leak info…

   MadBum? (don’t see it myself). Didi? (agent plants?)

   It only makes sense that the Phillies strike early if only because they have too much to get done to wait out the market. The Braves have but they will unlikely be hunting for big game. The Nats may be tied up waiting for Rendon and Strasburg to settle their own business. The Mets may pretend to be movers and shakers but we all know that front office can’t walk and chew gum at the same time.

   1. Another indication that they could do that very well thing….39 roster spots…one vacancy.
      Assuming they will not participate in the Rule 5 on Dec 12th…then there is room for that free agent signing.

      1. Leaving one spot open seems to be that the Phillies will participate in the Rule 5 if no non-tendered players appeals to them — and Cleavinger and Sanchez can be part of Klentak’s annual bullpen carousel if roster space is needed for FAs.

         Although I expect both Cesar and Franco to be non-tendered if not traded, having 3-4 roster spots is what the Phillies needed to sign 2 SPs, 1 RP. Then when Robertson is moved to the 60-day DL, then a bench player can be signed.

         1. They likely pick a player to trade for some J2 money. They’ve used this maneuver the past two winters.

            1. @Hinkie – if I will give Klentak a some high grades, it is trading spare parts for J2 $. Cesar and Franco are better than the spare parts they traded in the past although the $ (particularly Cesar) might prohibit Klentak to get something of value from them.

               But for a non-Top 30 prospect for a stash of J2$, Klentak normally gets it done.

            2. ….that’s the consummate Klentak 3-team trade. Take someone else’s refuse, then turn it into $2.99.

   2. As I reread the MLBTR off season outlook for the Phillies, the Wheeler omission may have merely been oversight on Steve Adams’ part. His focus seemed to be on Klentak’s aversion to giving up draft picks due to QO’s.

2. Who could bd available from other teams due to being untendered?

   1. Jackie Bradley Jr, Blake Treinen, Kevin Gausman, Mike Zunino (backup C?), Aaron Sanchez and Kevin Pillar could all conceivably interest the Phillies, though I doubt any of them wind up in red pinstripes.

      1. Correction – Treinen is a possibility.

      2. I could definitely see Gausman as a potential bullpen target. He posted a 3.17 as a reliever for the Reds down the stretch. He also had some success early in his career out of the BP. Plus there’s that Orioles connection.

         1. So who do you trade to the Reds that may interest them to get Gausman?

            1. Romus, Gausman is a non tender candidate.

               1. Well, you will not get him until after next Monday if he is non-tendered.
                  Then he may be go to the highest bidder….it may be $10M AAV or up a few ticks.
                  But he reminds of a guy who could be a Charlie Morton clone going forward.

         2. 3.17 FIP

      3. Would make a run at all of the pitchers mentioned were it up to me. Not sure if Bradley or Pillar would be smart if the plan is to put Haseley in center with the oft injured Quinn as the primary backup and Bruce able to fake it in left to give Cutch a few days off.

3. Jim thank you again for all the work you do.. A position player may come down the line but I would be shocked if at least 90% of the Phillies efforts aren’t focused on a SP or two right now..

4. Weird weekend for former Phuture Phillies. Cord Sandberg, who is now 24, plays QB for Auburn. And I see Mike Schwimer as a football betting analyst on ESPN (I double-checked – it’s definitely him).

5. jim, whenever you drop a bit of information like that, I always expect something to happen, because I know you hear things. A little Thanksgiving treat from the team would be just perfect.

6. Wow D’Arnaud gets a 2/$16 deal from the Braves. Seems rich for him. I think one of the most tiresome things about the FA season ( i refuse to call it a Hot Stove) is all the benign reports of this team is checking in on this player and that team is checking in on that player.

   Give me a break on that stuff. Even if they are agent leaks does anyone even buy into that baloney anymore until it actually happens.

   1. I hang on every rumor! 🙂

      1. Well then a newer rumor is that the White Sox have made Wheeler a target and currently sit as the highest bidder reported by Tim Ryder (who?)

         LOL

         1. Now that is a realistic scenario….Rick Hahn is making up for Manny’s escapades with them from last off season…Grandal first….now looks like Wheeler.
            The Black and White southsiders may take back Chicago.

            1. Unlike last season where there were very few teams who were going to outbid us for the likes of Harper or Machado this year is different.

               There are many teams interested in the same players we need who have the capacity to spend big money.

               If you were to rank them as guestimate costs

               Cole $240 Million over 7
               Strasburg $125 Million over 5
               Wheeler $120 Million over 5 (I’d even say $132 is possible for him over 6 if teams aren’t scared off of the TJ)
               MadBum $100 Million

               I think ultimately we got Harper because no one else was willing to go into that range. I doubt Harper had a 10 year offer let alone a 13… but for any of the above I think you will have as many as 4+ teams if not more willing to go into those figures for each player.

               I mean do you see any of those pitchers signing for less than that figure one? And two at what number does each become a bad deal for the signing club?

               1. Spot on.
                  The pitchers alone will command exorbitant AAVs….more so than Harpers or Machado’s AAVs.
                  Now two high rolling teams may surprise and become frugal….Dodgers and Yankees.
                  I think Donaldson may go to the Dodgers, to give them dome RHB power in that lefty lineup….and then they move Seager in a trade.
                  Yankees hassling with Ellsbury over the $26M makes me think both sides will settle for half that amount and lends me to believe they are also thinking bottom-line.

               2. If Stras sign for $125M/5 years – he becomes my #1 target. That’s a cheap price tag.

               3. Despite the fact that wheeler will have a robust market, I still find it hard to believe that he crosses the 100million threshold by so much. I think your prediction is a bit high on him. 5/100 he gets.

               4. Let the Dodgers get Donaldson. Then go all in on acquiring Seager should they be unwise enough to do that!

               5. If LAD sign Donaldson, that would make Justin Turner available, in whom the Phillies might have interest as a stopgap to Bohm.

               6. Dodgers were planning on moving Turner to second base if Donaldson is signed.

   2. Oh, DMAR – it’s supposed to be both annoying and exciting at the same time. That’s part of why we even pay attention😆. Yes, all the questionable outlets that throw out empty speculation should be ignored but c’mon….Jim Peyton is the real deal.

      1. 8mark I know I know….

7. Morosi sees the Phillies in on Bumgarner and Wheeler.
   They want a LHP in the rotation, so MadBum looks to be who they will shoot for first.
   .

8. Its bothersome/worrisome to me that the Realmuto extension hasn’t been completed. That should be the easiest deal Klentak has ever had to do.

   Unless of course JT and his agent want Real Stupid money. Wouldn’t that be a kick in the gold nuggets for their plans.

   1. I would suppose the agent is looking for somewhere in this range of AAV numbers:
      1 Buster Posey……….$22M
      2 Yadier Molina………$20M
      3 Yasmani Grandal…$18M

      The length I think may be the hang up, if it all comes down to it.

      1. It’s not the $ and it’s not the length. It’s the timing. Phillies want to keep his arb year AAV down, so they have $ and flexibility this season. They want to come to an agreement with Realmuto that will keep the AAV low for the 2020 season, and then, give him the big “extension” in 2021.

         There is a provision in the CBA (Article XXIII, Competive Ballance Tax, Section G. Other Undertakings), where a team can do such. It’s a lot of legalese, but seems to say that the parties can enter into such a deal 1) if a contract is in place (there will be one in place after the arb hearing whether by agreement between the parties or by the decision of the arbiter) and 2) if a new contract is agreed to after opening day of the contract season.

         So, for the sake of discussion, JT wants 5/$100M. The Phillies would like to avoid a $20M AAV hit in 2020. If the Phillies and Realmuto agree to a $10M deal (or if the arbiter selects one of the bids that happens to be $10M for this discussion), a contract will be in place. A $10M AAV will be set for 2020. Then if they agree to a new contract after the 2020 season starts whose term begins in 2021 for 4/$90M, then JT gets his 5/$100 over the life of both contracts and the Phillies get the salary relief they need until big contracts drop off after the 2020 season.

         Why would the Phillies be trying to legally beat the CBT? I think it indicates that they are not going to exceed the “cap”. If people want to believe that the Phillies are going to exceed the “cap” with nothing to support such a belief, that’s there prerogative. However, I believe this is a strong evidence that they do not at this time plan the exceed the “cap”.

         1. Got it now….makes total sense now since most teams are trying to stay below the threshold.
            Philies have never busted it, and probably do not intend to do it anytime soon.

9. DMAR, I believe Jim Salisbury indicated the deal would get done more around January because they will have the new $ kick in starting next season so to preserve some room under the Luxury Tax. He doesn’t think there is any problem in working out a deal. I think I have paraphrased him correctly, but that was the gist.

   1. And don’t forget, JT is arbitration eligible next season for about $11M. Maybe the Phillies want to hammer that out, then add an extension later in 2021. Perhaps by doing so, it will keep the 2020 team under the luxury tax.

      I’m not worried about the JT extension. It will get done.

      1. I agree. No sweat on JTR extension. If not, Klentak would be under even more scrutiny than he already is. They should wisely plod along with their other business and structure Realmuto’s deal accordingly.

   2. Ok I guess that makes sense

10. Here’s the video of Jon Morosi’s report (Romus mentioned earlier).

    "I believe that by New Year's Day, the #Phillies will have signed one of these significant starters: Bumgarner, Wheeler or Hamels." – @jonmorosi to @MadDogUnleashed #HighHeat pic.twitter.com/0NlwEfhpxq

    — MLB Network (@MLBNetwork) November 25, 2019

    I believe Cole Hamels is highly likely to be pitching for the Phillies next season (Middleton wants that to happen). The real question for me is … can/will they add Wheeler (or Bumgarner), also.

    1. I think Girardi likes lefties in his rotation.
       Even with the Yankees they always seem to have two almost always, and at times up to four during brief stretches in certain seasons.
       So Hamels and MadBum could be the direction they are headed.
       Personally, I think they could do a trade for a Norris or Boyd for a lefty also.

       1. That was because of Yankees stadium also and the short right field porch

          1. He will still want them in the rotation…all managers want a mix.

             And CBP at 7th @ 1.17 vs Yankee Stadium at 25th @ .865 for HRs under 2019 Park factors, probably makes no difference. Almost every WS team has had at least one lefty starter in their 3/4 man rotation thru the play-offs.

             http://www.espn.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor/_/sort/HRFactor

    2. I don’t think Bumgarner but Wheeler I believe could happen. I like to get ray. I would offer Medina and Hasely if ray signs a 3 yr deal

       1. rocco….you and 8mark want Haseley out of town on the first stagecoach!

       2. Everyone needs to stop offering Medina in a trade. He has no value right now. Other teams know he’s regressed also.

    3. Angels are willing to go to 3 years with Hamels. I don’t think the Phillies are willing to go that high.

       1. Angels! We heard that 14 teams had interest in Hamels, but any team willing to guarantee 3 years can have him. If that’s the case, then what will they offer the other Cole? Sounds like Arte Moreno is looking to overpay some more.

          1. Angels need more than one starter…I actually think the Phillies’ staff is set up better than theirs right now,….Heaney, Canning, Barria, Peters and Suarez…..that is not a dominant rotation…and they lost one of their best in Tyler Skaggs upon his death in July..

11. I hope Morosi is correct, but Hamels, as much as I like him and want him here, is not in the same category as Wheeler and MadBum. If we get Hamels, we also need one of the others. Hamels alone is not enough to improve the SR. If we get one of MadBum or Wheeler, then there are a number of other possibilities for that 2d SP.

    1. Morosi’s assertion that one of MadBum, Wheeler or Hamels gets signed by the Phillies sounds like his opinion. No where do I see him citing sources. I agree with him that neither Cole nor Strasburg are real targets. I’m of a mind that the Phillies will sign one of the 3 Morosi suggests plus trade for another….and no, it won’t necessarily be Haseley, Bohm or Hoskins that goes. I’m only willing to trade Haseley IF we get a proven CF and a good SP.

12. This is how the Yankees buy high end international players:

    Yankees PR Dept.
    ✔
    @YankeesPR

    TRADE: Earlier today, the Yankees traded LHP Nestor Cortes Jr. to Seattle for international signing bonus pool money.
    2:35 PM – Nov 25, 2019

13. As December 2 approaches, what is the consensus? Do we non-tender Cesar and/or Franco? Is there a possible trade out there? Do we keep either? I think one gets non-tendered and I think that is Cesar, and I think someone bites on Franco, although the return is not much. Just a hunch.

    1. Pretty reasonable take, matt13. I would not be surprised if both are non-tendered. Franco will be cheaper in terms of arbitration cost, so he may be more appealing to a rebuilding club like Detroit.

14. my thought exactly, 8mark. This is, in now way, bashing Cesar. I just think he is now at a # that is much too high. If he is non-tendered, then I think he gets offers from teams, but at a much lower number than $11.8Million. Franco’s power may entice some team, and the $ is much less.

    1. They could decide to pay him, trade him, and eat $5M to get a prospect back. Is it think they will take that gamble but they could. Same with Franco. It’s another way to buy a player.

       1. Most likely Cesar will have to play in korea or japan. He isn’t a major league player,

          1. rocco……you are being facetious, right?
             He has value as a 2nd basemen….but not at the arb 4 projection $.
             There are teams out there who take a chance with him at a lower salary.

             1. Rocco? Facetious? Nah…..
                (Just don’t ask him to spell it)

       2. I could see the Cubs pick up Cesar once he’s non-tendered on a FA deal, say 1/$6M with an option yr. They could use a decent, cheap 2b to stabilize their middle infield.

          1. 8mark I value your opinion. I cant believe you think Cesar gets 6 million, That’s a lot of money for a non hitting, slow running second basemen with low obp. How did you come up with all that money.?

             1. Can we see some ID, Roc? That can’t possibly be you posting….or is this the kinder, gentler Rocco? Or am I having a midlife change…what am I saying giving Cesar $6M?!?!

                1. @8mark – rocco is just trolling you. Cesar is Rocco’s Winter Soldier (Bucky).

                2. Say it isn’t so….😆

             2. Rocco, they are paying him the extra bucks because he is as sharp as a tack.

       3. If this team is going to run up against the luxury tax looking a free agents why would they want to add extra dead money?

          Expect both CeHe and Franco are non-tendered and everyone moves on.

          1. Because they’re about to lose draft picks and international money signing FAs and this is a chance to buy a few prospects.

15. Didn’t Cesar sign for a lesser amount before the deadline last time in arbitration than what was projected? If the Phillies can sign him for 8M, I think they may do it. I agree with Moffo
    about his Uncle Cesar, he is still one of the better 2Bman in baseball.

    1. That Ball’s Outta Here ran a mock off season where Cesar was traded to Cleveland for lefty prospect Sam Hentges, who projects as a MOR starter if he can get his command right. Former TJ surgery recoverer.

       1. A guy like that may be better coming in as a reliever…..like Andrew Miller has done. But that would seem like a match between the teams.
          Though I would shoot for younger pitchers not required for 40 protection yet…Carlos Vargas or Lenny Torres.

    2. Why would he do that? No chance.

16. There was also a trade to Detroit for Franco, getting us back their 26th ranked prospect, whose name escapes me. I think Cesar has value to a team at about half his projected salary. And, I have no doubt that he finds suitors. It is the amount of $ he makes getting tendered here that is a problem. Plus, we have better options.

    1. just sign Moose to play 2B already, let’s go!!! I’d throw the “Texas Special” deal of 3/30 at Moustakas, Porcello, and Hamels RIGHT NOW and see who accepts it. Hopefully all 3 would, and then you can just set your sights on the more expensive investments–Wheeler and that JTR extension

17. I tried to find a good fit for Franco somewhere and its tough. Detroit is a possibility so are the Mariners

    But there are quite a few really good 3Bs in the league and many of the back-up roles go to those who are position flexible which Franco is not.

    Andujar from the Yankee’s is also going to be available in a trade. So not only is Franco likely to be non-tendered he might have a hard time getting an MLB contract.

    1. DMAR….Andujar is a very very poor defensive third baseman,,,Yankess are looking to move him to another position…..even before his injury and Urshela’s emergence.
       Any team trading for him cannot afford to put him at third base.
       Franco is a better defensive third baseman, but of course not even close to Arenado.
       Detroit may be a fit…they were asking about him in the summer.
       Maybe a low level prospect or international $$$

18. Josh Harrison signed to a minor League deal. Rough, injury plagued year last year. He had success with the Pirates. I think this is for depth as a hedge against failing to sign Moustakas or Didi.

    1. If he can regain his health and maintain it, there is no reason he will not be a very useful player, his last healthy year was 2017 and played at a 2.6fWAR

       1. Luckily it’s just a minor league signing. If this was a major league signing I’d be pretty annoyed.
          Could be a good bench piece.

19. Josh Harrison…..may be akin to Howie Kendrick
    Klentak with a reach but could be a fruitful minor investment.

    1. I always liked Josh. He can play a decent 2B and 3B and some LF in a pinch. Not quite the hitter Howie is but probably brings the same leadership.

       Good depth signing.

       1. DMAR…agree…he needs to regain his health.
          Corey S. wrote today…. “The last two seasons, he hasn’t hit…..”

          Well he has been injured the last two years….it could have an adverse effect on his hitting.
          2019- Had to deal with shoulder and hamstring problems and stopped playing in a MLB game EOM May…hamstring injury led to surgery
          2018- April… fractures left hand stung by a José Ureña fastball clocked at 96 mph…missed 6 weeks
          If he is fully healthy again, there is no reason he cannot produce at the 2+fWAR level he did in 2017.

20. Phillies signed Josh Harrison.

    1. I thought it was George Harrison>?

       1. Josh Hamilton

21. Let’s see if bargain hunting pays off this time!

22. The Angels are rumored to go hard on Gerrit Cole. As much as I love the Phillies to sign Gerrit Cole, the Phillies should strike and sign any of the top SPs next after Gerrit Cole.

    Without the Phillies bidding and NYY and LAD looking gun shy, Boras will squeeze anything to drive Gerrit Cole’s value up. The later Gerrit Cole stayed in the market, the bigger the chance the Phillies can swoop in and snatch him back door.

    1. I do get the impression that the Phillies do not want to go into February/March again with free agent negotiations.
       After two years running…Arrieta in 2018 and Harper this year…..I think Middleton and Co. want to get something majorly done by the New Year at the latest.

       1. @romus – you know that I’m a Gerrit Cole guy and that the “Phillies do not want to go into February/March again” is the reason why I’m OK for the Phillies to strike early and sign Wheeler and Hamels rather than play the Boras game with Gerrit Cole.

          The rotation needs an upgrade (this is not negotiable) and Klentak can no longer afford to rely on his ability to evaluate internal options. Just take Middleton’s $$ and sign proven SPs.

          1. Problem is, I don’t see Klentak striking quick. He is going to bargain hunt and screw up this offseason.

             1. Whatever anybody thinks of Klentak, he’s smart enough not to have Middleton fire him for nickel and diming his way through the off season.

23. Phillies beloved scout Will Brunson has died unexpectedly. Here’s how to help his family https://t.co/uhmVVAgAcg

    — Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) November 27, 2019

    Lost a friend this past weekend. Suddenly, unexpectedly. Will Brunson, former MLB pitcher and most recently a scout with @Phillies
    He was a great husband, father, friend.
    If you are so led, there is a @gofundme setup to support his family https://t.co/4Ip8zriRyr pic.twitter.com/5R87gkRW1d

    — Brian Anderson (@BAndersonPxP) November 26, 2019

    1. So sad to hear this.
       Just 49 years old……prayers for him and his family.

24. Sign of the times …and things to come.
    Prospect first baseman 23-year old Evan White earned a $24M, six-year contract from Seattle Mariners before playing a game at Triple A
    Phillies’ Scott Kingery ($24 million for six years) and ChiSox OFer ( Eloy Jimenez ($43 million for six years) agreed in March to lucrative contracts before their big-league debuts, but both had played at Triple-A.

    Times are a changing …and teams want to get their young prospects signed up thru their arb years and a year or two into their free agency.

    Even Atlanta did it with Acuna and Albies…lock them up with security but very friendly club contracts.

    Get them early before Boras gets them.

    1. I agree Romus sometimes it is going to work for the club and sometimes the player. More often though I think the advantage falls in favor of the club.

       Adam Jones signed a 6/$84 million extension at age 26 that saw the last year of that contract pay him $17 million only to find a 1/$3 million deal waiting for him at age 33 from the D-Backs.

       He earned $98 million thus far and is a career WAR player of 32.1 so that’s right at the $3 mil per win mark.

       Evan Longoria however is a career WAR of 54.2 against career earnings to date of $85 mil which is $1.6 million per win. Now that can end up increasing because of salary still owed to him but it’s not likely to exceed $3 mil per win. He’s a player that signed really early.

       Now if you do Jon Singleton he made off like a bandit at $11.6 mil per win LOL

       1. DMAR….the majority of all these ‘early’ signings are for position players……but I think the Phillies were one of the first to do it with a pitcher, Aaron Nola…buying out many arb years
          Of course the pitcher and his agent have to agree, but it is still a bold move and somewhat risky.
          Kudos to Klentak and Co if that deal turns out to everyone’s benefit

25. KuKo, I find all these “reports” amusing. Why would the Angels leak that they will go hard after Cole, and sign him “no matter the price.”? Even Middleton’s “stupid money” comment was directed at FA in general, not a specific player. It has to be the Agent, or some reporter simply making it up. I don’t think he ends up here. I believe they will take the multiple arms approach instead. I would love to have him. I think getting the best player you can beats 2 lesser options, but I just get the sense that Cole does not come here. I still believe that the FO is not going to go long enough on a contract. I have faith they spend $, but the length will send Cole elsewhere.

    1. “I think getting the best player you can beats 2 lesser options”, depends on the depth of your rotation. If your like the Phillies and in reality you need at least two and maybe three SP’s the best bet is the ‘two lesser options’..

       1. Yes, maybe if the goal is to make the playoffs, but in the post season, now as always, the best starting pitching usually determines the outcome – something of which the Yankees are, no doubt, keenly aware.

       2. This is generally true – but on if market price is set and all the Phillies will need to do is pick choose their options. But that’s not the current picture. Gerritt Cole can go north of $240M, thus, he may not be a viable option at all for the Phillies.

          I’ve been a Gerrit Cole guy since early this season and I’ve been vocal about it. With the urgent need to improve the starting rotation, I just need want the Phillies to be between a rock and a hard place. Those “lesser options” that you’re referring too will most likely are signed early in the offseason – so I don’t want the Phillies to be in a situation wherein they either sign Gerrit Cole $250M (or above) or choose scrubs in the recycle bin.

          If Wheeler can be had for $100-110/5 years – sign him ASAP. If Cole Hamels will sign for $18M/1 year with 2nd yr option – sign him.

          1. I’m getting the distinct feeling that Hamels will not sign here, especially if LAA is going 3 years. And if 14 teams, or anything close to that number, are showing interest in him, Klentak won’t be keen on going the extra mile unless Cole is willing to give a hometown discount. Even Middleton won’t sanction a 3 year offer.

             1. They don’t need a hometown discount but I agree there’s no way they give a 3 yr deal to a 36 yr old.

26. Really sad story about Will Brunson. My prayers go out to his Family. What a shame!

27. Happy Thanksgiving To all. Hope everyone has a great day. I am thankful for a lot, even Romus

    1. rocco…..Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family.

       1. Yes Happy Thanksgiving to all of you. You are truly the best Phillies blog on the planet

          and Jimmy Peyton is absolutely someone I am thankful for 🙂

28. If the going rate for a Starting Pitcher is say $5 per Win (using Corbin’s deal as a baseline) then Zach would be about $18.5 AAV player

    MadBum $12 and Cole roughly $30 million

    Add whatever inflation you want to add to those AAVs and guess on the years. Corbin was going into his age 29 season so he nabbed a 6 year deal.

    As Dan O’Dowd put it last night GMs make mistakes when they change their valuations based on projections. Or in other words if you fall into the trap of projecting Wheeler as a Cole or even if you just project him up a few ticks you end up on the wrong side of a deal.

    He says he knows because that is exactly what he did with Mike Hampton. Secondly if you’re not careful to evaluate the other weaknesses of your club your FA sign will not move the needle.

    But he also said risk is a part of the game and its inherent in any deal.

    1. DMAR….why do you have MadBum so low at $12M…..I have him a bit higher around the $17/19M AAV range depending on the length…..5 yrs @$85M or 4 yrs @$75M .

       1. Well I looked at his WAR last 2 year average which came to 2.45 X $5=$12.250

          That could be deceiving I agree and I would totally be comfortable giving him a 5/$100. if it it were me. I believe in the player and a few more seasons of a much better WAR output.

          But today that’s what it’s saying…

          1. Don’t forget…..WAR has to be projected for those years he did not complete the entire season. For example in 2018…he only started 21 games due to the early season injury and ended up with a 2.4bWAR…project that over the 34 games he would have started then it raises his average for the last two years a few ticks higher….2018 would have projected to 3.9bWAR and the average of the two years would then be 3.2bWAR.
             Not much more ($16)but a little higher than $12.2

             1. ….ZZZZZZZZZZZ

                (just kidding, Romus…you know how I roll)

             2. Ahhhh I did not know that Romus thanks for the learning moment.

                1. I am starting to lean more MadBum than Wheeler.
                   MadBum is only one year older and has been healthier thru-out his career,
                   of course no guarantees that stays that way.
                   I also like the fact when he is not pitching, he also becomes a pinch-hitter off the bench.

                2. Interesting, Romus….plus Joe Girardi likes his lefty arms in the rotation. He does, however, have more mileage on his arm.

                3. That is a concern with his high usage over the years.
                   According to Brooks his velo has ticked down with age and usage over the years from highs in his play-off days with the Giants.
                   2013…92.49
                   2014…92.90
                   2015…93.02
                   2016…91.71
                   2017…91.38
                   2018…91.47
                   2019…91.72
                   …but have to assume he is a better overall pitcher.

29. Looks like RHP Kyle Gibson is coming off the board, nearing a deal with Texas.

    1. Gibson gets 3/$30M.

30. Milwaukee traded OF Trent Grisham and RHP Zach Davies to San Diego for 2b Luis Urias and LHP Eric Lauer. At least something is happening earlier than Thanksgiving….

    1. ….and who was it that wanted the Phillies to sign Drew Pomeranz? He’s now a Padre, too.

       1. romus did

31. Me and Hinkie. He was high on my list. And I know some of you will tell me I lack patience, I do, and it is early, not for top RPs, and some of you have a lot of faith in Klentak, I don’t. Anyway, I wish all of you a wonderful Thanksgiving and I love this site!

    1. I don’t think you lack patience at all Matt. Ours is a team with a lot of needs and pitching being an obvious one in both the BP and rotation.

32. Orioles are reportedly trying to trade Dylan Bundy. I wonder if Klentak would bite on him as a SP. Can’t imagine he’d cost much. Has some promising peripheral numbers but he struggled big time in 2019.

    1. The issue with Dylan Bundy seems to be health, which may have affected his velo:
       2012 95.29
       2016 95.00
       2017 92.48
       2018 92.10
       2019 91.57
       His 4Smr is losing velo each year after the TJ surgery….June 2013…..and then July 2015, he was shut down indefinitely with calcification in the back area of his shoulder…last year was right knee tendinitis.
       If he can stay healthy he may be a very good investment.

33. Pomeranz off the board. There were several on here that wanted him.

    Wake up Klentak!!!

34. 8mark…interesting and I thought the same thing about Bundy when I saw the article this morning at MLB Rumors. Phils have always been enamored with Bundy and he sure seems like a guy who could flourish under a pitching coach like Price.

    Add to this the comments by Jim this week about if a Phils trade for a pitcher this week “you didn’t hear it here.” Not sure what the O’s would want but I could see them settling for VV or Pivetta. Both are hurlers with potential and still low contracts and the O’s would relieve themselves of a largely disappointing hurler with a contract they may not wish to pay.

    1. CalDream, I forgot about the old Baltimore connection. In this case, Bundy as a #5 in exchange for either Pivetta or Velasquez makes sense to me. One change of scenery candidate for another?

    2. Vinny for Bundy will be a good change of scenary swap. I’m still a believer of Pivetta, not as a SP but as a high leverage bullpen arm.

35. So what makes Kyle Gibson so much better than Vinnie V?

    Gibson’s ERA and WHIP are way above average. He’s not overpowering. He’s much older and is up and down year from year.

    Also, they say he is a ground ball pitcher but he is averaging over a career around 25 homers a year while pitching under 200 innings.

    Also averaging 7ks a game and 3.5 walks per game while averaging less than 6 innings a game.

    And he signs for 3 years as a starter for more than $10 million a year.

    Continue to stick with Vinnie!

    1. Denny……averages 30 starts a year @ 175 innings …over 6 years…with an average of a 4.3 FIP …in the AL
       He does seem to have some staying power thru a game……Vinny is usually done at 4 2/3rds innings.

       1. Where was Gibson at Vinnies age. Gibson is 5 year older and had a high ERA at V V’s age.

          At Vinnie’s age he was averaging just over 5 innings pitched per start close to a 5 ERA and the AL has the DH rule which in theory makes his average innings per game worse than a national league pitcher.

          1. They both had 4.4bWAR totals after their age27 season.
             The Rangers saw something in him to give him a salary equivalent to a 4 in the rotation.
             No one is debating their pure stuff…Vinny has it….but Vinny is not yet the pitcher expected of him from the Dec 2015 trade.
             Lets not die on this hill between the barrages of VV and Gibson.

36. Happy Thanksgiving to one and all… I’ve been coming to this site since last June and I’ve learned a lot about the Phillies and baseball in general..

    Jim thank you again for this site.. I can’t imagine the time it takes but it’s obviously a labor of love for you…

37. In case I forget, Happy Thanksgiving to all my friends and fellow curmudgeons here at Phuture Phillies. Hats off to Jim for his tireless efforts and occasionally veiled leaks😆.

38. Happy Thanksgiving to All

39. Baltimore placed Jonathan Villar on waivers. His $10+M arb figure may have been the same reason why the Phillies will do likewise with Cesar.

    1. The possibility….perhaps offer him 2 yrs@$13M, since Cesar will probably be non-tendered come Tuesday. He goes to second with Kingery over to third as one option.
       Is having Villar a better alternative in the lineup then Didi?

       1. MLBTR said Villar is better at ss than 2b. If so, put him at ss, move segura to 3b, Kingery to 2b and non-tender Rocco’s uncle. What do you think?

          1. That is yet another possibility….Klentak will be afforded choices to be made, lets hope they are good ones in the end.

             And want to wish a Happy Thanksgiving to one and all…and a special appreciation to Jim and his dedicated fine work for us…and also recovery and good health to his wife.

40. Happy Thanksgiving all. Love the thinking man’s Phillies website, and all the good information and debate everyone provides.

41. I believe MLBTR stated that Villar was a good 2Bman and below average at SS.

    One thing he does better than Hernandez is steal bases.

    1. It said the defensive metrics soured on his work at 2nd base, but gave him passable marks at ss.

42. Anybody else have a bad feeling about Dylan Bundy becoming a Phillie? I’m predicting, Nick Williams, Vince Velasquez and a lottery ticket for Bundy and international pool money.

    Essentially, our crap for their crap, but at least we can hope for an intriguing 16-year old.

    1. I feel nervous about hiring anyone with Orioles on their resume.

    2. What great offseason Bundy, Villar, and Sanchez we catch the braves

       1. Rocco, we pickup a rule 5 yet and we have a lock on it!😉

43. Jim

    Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family. We are most grateful and appreciative for all that you do throughout the year to make this by far the best site for Phillies diehards to interact and learn. Continued best wishes.

44. An everyday reader, never poster, but I am very thankful for this site and all the baseball insight that is shared. Thankful for all Jim’s work and hoping for great health and happiness for Jim and his family

45. lol no way Boston trades Mookie to us for cap flexibility.

    1. The only team(s) which might trade for Mookie is one like LAD who’ve been knocking at the door with plenty of young controllable talent to offer. The Phillies are not one of those teams.

46. Okay, let’s all shake off the tryptophan effect and restart some serious hot stove talk….

47. I was hoping to give thanks to Matt Klentak for giving us Drew Pomerantz this holiday weekend. Instead, San Diego struck a deal with him. I know AJ Preller hasn’t won anything as Padres GM yet, but I give the guy credit for having the ability to accumulate tooled up players/prospects. He promised Pomerantz (who IMO was the most dominant reliever on the FA market) 34 million over 4 seasons. Four years for a BP arm may be a little much/out of the ordinary, but LHRP’s will always hold trade value, and Preller will probably be able to swap him for something of value if things don’t work out in San Diego after the first two or three seasons.
    Hopefully, the Middleton/Klentak team is working quietly behind the scenes to get a Zack Wheeler deal done. I still think there’s a very good chance Cole Hamels throws for the Phillies in 2020 because that’s important to John Middleton. For me, Drew Smyly would be a smart (re)sign.

    1. A black Friday purchase would be nice. Perhaps we might have some early Cole in our stocking….the cheaper Cole, that is.

       1. Yes 8mark I agree, I just purchased socks

          1. No, Roc – I didn’t say “holes” in your stocking….Cole. (Or in your case, coal)

    2. BTW … don’t know if the Pomerantz signing makes Matt Strahm (more) available now … but … if I’m Matt Klentak, I’d give Preller a call to find out. I’ve always liked Strahm. For me, he could have some Drew Pomerantz in him: LHP who has started and relieved, but is definitely better out of the BP, where he can rely on two plus pitches (FB [with greater velo in shorter stints] and really good CB). Strahm hits arbitration for the first time this winter, and is projected to get 1.5 million dollars.

       1. And we know already that Joe Girardi likes his multiple innings relievers. Strahm fits the bill to a tee. And with the new 3 batter minimum rule in effect for 2020, say goodbye to any “one out” specialists. (Not that we’ve been well stocked in them anyway)

48. Hinkie, to me, the top 3 RPs on the market were Smith, Pomeranz and Betances. In whatever order you want, and a lot depends on Betances’ health. I didn’t think Smith was in their plans because of the QO, I think they will only give up a pick for a SP, and Pomeranz is now gone. I go after Betances, and assuming the Drs have cleared him, the connection to JoeG may be a big help. After him, unless we trade for Giles, the remaining 4 or 5 options are all about equal. So, I am sure they can add someone, but I would like a little more than just someone.

49. If Blake Treinen gets non-tendered, I think he is an excellent bounce back candidate. I would be interested in him. I agree with you Hinkie on Strahm. The unfortunate part is that you are not Matt Klentak, so we can only guess what it is he is planning.

    1. matt13….he scares me.
       Even when he was with the Nats he seemed to be a little wild, out of the zone.
       IMO, if it were on short and a low salary contract, that would negate plenty of the risk.

50. Rosenthal prediction:
    Cole to the Phillies.
    Wonder if he knows something more than anyone else.

    http://www.philliesnation.com/2019/11/mlb-insider-im-predicting-gerrit-cole-to-the-phillies/

    1. I think I’m hearing Christmas bells in my ears, Romus! Or it’s Middleton rattling the change in his pockets.

    2. Schocking !!! A MLB FA would sign with the team offering him the most money?
       I’ve been making this same point for over a year now. Outside of Cliff Lee (who took a slight discount) and players near the end of their careers searching for a ring, it is hard/almost impossible to find a single FA who left any money on the table.

       Could Gerrit Cole become a Phillie this winter? Yes because John Middleton has the money to compete for/outspend any other team for the 2019 AL Cy Young award runner-up.
       Will Gerrit Cole become a Phillie this winter? I don’t know for certain, but I believe the club would be better off spreading their money around. For me … adding Zack Wheeler, Cole Hammels (who I believe Middleton wants as much as Garret Cole), and Mike Moustakas is a better use of Middleton’s money.

       .

       Speaking of spending Middleton’s stooopid money … Steve Phillips and Eduardo Perez really went over the top (absolutely will not happen) on MLB Radio.

       Ring the bell! 🔔
       Wheeler, Bumgarner, or Hamels would be swell. 🙂#Phillies pic.twitter.com/atgVqUR4YF

       — MLB Network Radio on SiriusXM (@MLBNetworkRadio) November 27, 2019

51. Romus, you are correct. Treinen would be on a low risk move. Rosenthal, on Cole, said he was making the prediction to make a larger pint. That the rumors of Cole to the WC are just talk. He feels he will go to the highest bidder, and if we, as we did with Harper, are the highest bidder, he will sign here. I don’t think that is anything we haven’t talked about before. I just don’t know if that is what Klentak does. I think he has much more of a multiple SP plan than just Cole. The problem is that I think the competition is going to send Wheeler and MadBum’s numbers higher and longer than we originally thought.

    1. Matt13, Jim Peyton and others have commented that indicators show that Middleton will not exceed the luxury tax threshold. But, if Gerrit Cole is indeed a target, perhaps they are positioning themselves to only exceed $208M by a smaller margin than simply blowing by it with wild abandon. And let’s not forget that salary will be coming off the books next year so it should be manageable to peel back under the penalty line.

       1. …and let’s remember that Boras loves him that “opt-in” clause. Cole’s contract will likely involve a few wrinkles which may or may not relieve the Phillies of being committed to a longer term…

          1. ….then again, Boras could of course be using Rosenthal to his advantage. Shocking, I know….

52. 8mark, we don’t know what the “Plan” is. I worry that it drags into February, and we don’t move on other options. With Harper, if we didn’t get him, we weren’t getting anyone. They decided not to match SD’s offer on Machado, and if Harper had not worked out, there wasn’t another option. We would have played with what we had. That is different this year. Failing to address the SP is not an option. Waiting until ST, and failing to land Cole cannot be the result. That is why I wanted a Cole Hamels signed already. Maybe they spoke with him, and he wants too much. I would then move on to Jordan Lyles or Tanner Roark or whoever else is in line. Maybe the 2d SP comes via trade? All I know is, 2 SPs need to be added, and it would be nice to have one on board already. Somebody said, and maybe I am screwing up the quote, but “it is getting late earlier these days.”

    1. I actually think it’s feasible for the Phillies to sign both Cole’s. But yes they need to address the broader needs of the roster. There are numerous routes to that end. So you are right. We really have no clue what the blueprint might be.

       1. I suppose we will know a little by Monday..if Cesar and Franco are non-tendered that is approx. additional $18M available to them

    2. I feel like people forget everything about last off-season that wasn’t Bryce Harper.

       We signed an OF before Bryce last year. If you don’t think Cutch was a hedge against the possibility of losing out on Harper, then I don’t know what to tell you. We also addressed the bullpen, and traded for all stars up the middle at SS and C.

       Harper was the cherry on top, not the only option. The FO will make moves. Cole is this year’s Harper; the potential cherry on top, but not their only target.

53. Jim – I went back to MLBTR to check when J. Villar was non-tendered. The report read that he was better at short last year than at second. You are correct, sir.

    1. He was better at short vs 2nd!!!!
       ….there must be some mistake.
       Just going by the standard eye-test metrics….
       At short he 12 errors and a FLD% of .957 in only 282 chances.
       At 2nd base he had 8 errors and a FLD% of .978 and more chances at 364 and also more innings.
       And they gave him a negative DRS of 11 at 2nd…sheeesh!
       That does not make sense….MLBTR must be going bonkers with statcast defensive metrics which can be ambiguous.

54. I was surprised as well. But if you go to Jonathan Villar, it will come up with Nov 27 “Orioles Report Placing Jonathan Villar on Waivers”. Says it there.

55. MLBTR posted its top 25 list of trade candidates. The following may be of interest to the Phillies….

    Starling Marte, cf
    Jackie Bradley Jr, of
    Kirby Yates, rp
    Matthew Boyd, lhp
    Robbie Ray, lhp
    Dylan Bundy, rhp
    Blake Treinen, rp
    Mychal Givens, rp
    Caleb Smith, lhp
    Ian Kennedy, rp

    ….and one which I might consider as a proven veteran bat to solidify a lineup ready to contend, with 2 years left @$21M AAV, defense on slight decline but still an adequate CF, Charlie Blackmon.

    1. ….and speaking of Charlie Blackmon (and salary relief for the Rox), how about offering Colorado a package for him and Jon Grey?

56. Romus would the pirates do a Josh bell and Marte for Segura and Hopkins deal, and cash, we get a center fielder and first basemen, the pirates get a shortstop and first basemen and save cash if we pick up part of segura money.

    1. rocco….you really want Bell ilo of Hoskins? I prefer Hoskins, but if you like Bell what can I say..

       But will the new guy, Ben Cherington do the deal…no….that’s not how he rolls…he wants to rebuild his farm like he did in Boston.
       If it is just those four involved, IMO he will need one or two more prospects or young guys, in a deal like that.

       1. Throw in Haseley and low level pitcher they might get it done.i just think it solves the center fielder problem. and we get a better fielding first basemen. pirates get some money and still have Hopkins to trade after this year if they want, plus they get two prospects win win

          1. rocco baldelli moffo….Bell is the worst first basemen in the NL and only Al Pujols is worst in the majors …by SABR SDI…Rhys is also down there but not at the bottom of the barrel.
             Rhys Hoskins PHI -2.9
             Josh Bell PIT -4.8
             Albert Pujols LAA -5
             https://sabr.org/sdi/2019-final#NL1B

             And throw in Haseley!
             ….another Haseley hater I see.
             Probably will be one of the best defensive CFers in the majors by the end next season, and meets the ball….but lets just get rid of the guy!

             Now what happens when the 31-year old Marte leaves after next season?
             Throw him a 4 year $70M contract?

             1. Romus, for the life of me I can’t figure why so many people are quick to trade Haseley. He could be the best 8 hitter in baseball, a smooth glove in CF, with considerable upside. I say we keep him unless we can acquire a TOR.

             2. Romus i havent seen bell field, But its hard for me to believe anyone, could be a worst fielder than Hopkins, i was thinking back on bad fielding first basemen, that i have seen. imo he might be the worst,

                1. rocco…he is right up there for sure……Dick Stuart was not a Gold Glove over there in the mid- 60s….and even Ryan Howard could be an adventure at times.

57. I am with you. I like Haseley. He is our own guy, came up a year ahead of time last year, and showed that he has talent. He was much better defensively than I thought, and I can see a lot of growth still left in him. And, rocco, I can’t understand why you don’t like Rhys, and can’t see how much ceiling he has, and yet you are Cesar’s biggest supporter, and his ceiling is still average.

58. Put me in the pro-Haseley crowd. The trade that includes him better be one that brings back significant value!

    1. Would anyone offer Haseley, Ortiz, Velasquez, Seabold and Jojo to Cokorado for Blackmon and Jon Grey? That’s the only type of deal I would include Haseley.

       1. Come on, that’s just silly. Why would Colorado do that?

59. Just in from MLBTR – the Phillies have expressed interest in Dellin Betances and Austin Romine.

    1. Call it a hunch, but I would like to see Andrew Knapp after one year with a really good hitting coach. Knapp evolved from a below-average defensive player to a borderline plus defensive option – all due to a lot of really hard work. He calls a GREAT game – not a good game, a great game. He also has a good eye and a beautiful swing. If someone could unlock his approach at the plate, he could be a really fascinating late bloomer. I’m not against Romine at all, but I think, with the right coach, Knapp could become a pretty decent hitter still and a super back up receiver.

       1. I’ve always felt there was a good chance Betances is throwing out of the Phillies BP next season … most likely on a one year/prove it to me contract.
          It’s possible the Phillies go with three catchers on their roster next season. That would allow them to carry Knapp and Romine.

       2. I agree with you Catch, but I think Girardi has his eyes set on Romine.

          1. Jim….agree….Romine and Girardi are two bodies shared by one mind.
             I have seen Girardi use him so much up there when Sanchez was driving Girardi bonkers with his porous defensive catching.

          2. Rooting for Romine to be signed. Our boys were teammates together in little league this past spring. He knows I’m a phillies fan so that should be fun. He’s a real nice guy too.

60. The Phillies literally had the worst hitting and pitching coaches last year that I can ever recall. Great players (Nola) became good players. Good players (Hoskins and Cesar) became mediocre players. And the okay players (Knapp, Pivetta and half the bullpen) bottomed out. I see a bounce back coming for a lot of our players next year.

    1. Nick Pivetta (for me) is the most interesting piece for the Phillies this winter. What happens with him?

       A) He remains a starting pitching candidate
       B) He moves to the BP full time
       C) He is traded

       IMO, choice “B” is the worst idea. If the team is planning to transition Pivetta to the pen, I’d probably be looking to deal him for a more established reliever (with fewer years of team control). I’ve proposed a Nick Pivetta (4 years of team control) to Baltimore for Mychal Givens (2 years of team control) and Tanner Scott (big LH arm with all kinds of control problems) deal. I’m sure Toronto would be very open/excited to flip Ken Giles (last year of team control) for the Phillies lanky Canadian pitcher. However, I don’t think that would be enough for Pivetta.

       I’ve always had a fascination with Nick Pivetta. He’s got a really high ceiling, so I would probably hang on to him, and allow Bryan Price the opportunity to unlock his potential as a starter. I think it was Romus (a few weeks ago) who cautioned Pivetta could have a Jake Arrieta type of career. Meaning … he could finally blossom in his late 20’s (and with a new team).

       1. Hinkie, in your opinion, what are Pivetta’s biggest development challenges in order for him to unleash his full potential and become a successful pitcher. I’m not sure B is out of the question, but you raise a point that makes me think about his suitability for the pen. I wouldn’t do the Giles deal either.

       2. @Hinkie – I’m probably the lone proponent of Pivetta to the bullpen here. Developing a high leverage bullpen is “never the worst” idea – it may not be the best option, but it is not the worst.

          I prefer the trade route – but like most trades it can be a double edge sword. It can be brilliant (if the trade turns in to the Phillies favor) or the other way around. Without knowing the trade return from Pivetta – transitioning to the bullpen is still the best option for Pivetta.

          And for your Option A, this is like the Gabe Kapler way. The Phillies cannot avoid and see if Pivetta is a legit SP or not. Pivetta needs to contribute if he is in the roster – and the bullpen is his best option.

          1. **cannot afford (not cannot avoid)….

             1. Jim Salisbury has mentioned earlier that he believes of he three young pitchers who started the season in the rotation…Pivetta will be the one moved in a trade this off-season. I kind of lean his way and think Klentak will dangle Pivetta out there.

                1. @romus – without knowing what’s the return that the Phillies will get from Pivetta, it’s hard to determine if the trade route is the best option right now. Pivetta’s value is minimal right now which might limit the Phillies’ ability to get a good value from Pivetta via trade.

                   I’m not saying trading Pivetta is bad or good, but like Rhys and the other young pieces, their trade values are lower that their actual capability (which is exact opposite when I’m screaming to trade Cesar and Doobie 2 years ago).

                   It will all depend of who will be the trade return to determine what will be the best option for Pivetta.

61. I am not answering for Hinkie, but IMO, Pivetta’s biggest problem is mental. Does he have any options left? Because, I would keep him, let Price work with him, and let him start in LHV. VV is the BP candidate, I think. We will know Monday who is non-tendered. Blake Treinen is on my possibility list and Betances is now up top. A trade for Ken Giles would be a good option, as well.

    1. I agree Pivetta needs to become mentally stronger. Physically, he also to needs to better command his FB, and work on his SL. When he’s at his best, he works his (95-97 MPH) FB around the zone (especially up), and fools hitters with his plus CB. Those pitches should make him a great candidate to work out of the pen, but he’s not into being a reliever. His heart isn’t into it. He’s probably not going to succeed in that role. A team like Baltimore or Toronto can be more patient with him working things out as a starter.

       1. BTW … matt, Pivetta has one more option year left.

          1. @HInkie – the option year is exactly why I will transition Pivetta to the bullpen where he is closer to become a productive piece to any team.

             A team can always move Pivetta back as a starter from a pen, but with option time running out, Pivetta just needs to be productive to justify his roster spot. Without SP continue to be a high risk for Pivetta, he needs to have a good floor as a fallback to become a viable MLB player. Showing good success as a bullpen will give him that floor.

62. Did SRod sign with SF yet? Hopefully he can show how entitled the Bay Area fans are lol, with his 1 gm winning hit per year… anyways, very thankful he will be moving on!

63. Phillies bullpen coach Craig Driver has been hired away by the Cubs as their 1b/catching coach. He’s credited with enhancing JT Realmuto’s already elite D in 2019. Hope the Phillies can replace him, although having Joe Girardi in house should keep things up. And I say yes and amen to signing Austin Romine as backup C. Knapp is little more than a AAAA player, IMO. He may do well in transitioning to becoming a coach himself.

    1. I agree that’s what Knapp was last year – but I think there’s more there – maybe a lot more there. But he needs the right coaching.

64. Knapp is 28 yrs old, When is he going to develop? he is what he is below avg player

65. Another pathetic performance by the Eagles! A really good time for my baseball team to do something!

    1. Klentak and Howie seem to have one thing in common….neither thinks very well on the move. Their in-season postures are similar. Somebody should hold a mirror under their noses to see if they’re breathing. Check their pulse. Very uninspiring. And Dougy P sure misses his top offensive lieutenants. No imagination. No creativity.

       1. Oh, how quickly people forget. Howie’s moves in 2017 probably won them the Super Bowl. He didn’t get stupid overnight.

          1. Joe Douglas was behind the moves

             1. Sure – Roseman had NOTHING to do with it. And you know this how?

                1. On the Eagles note, that’s it for me. I’m a diehard, or I guess should say I was, but Im out for the season. If they make the playoffs, of course I’ll watch, but my time is too valuable to be spent watching a loss to the Miami dolphins. Infuriating, on top of the rest of the winnable games this year. Just
                   Can’t do it this year. They can prove there are worth more of my attention, doubtful until they fix that Swiss cheese secondary. Phillies, flyers and Sixers will get my time.

                2. Catch stick to baseball, Douglas came from the ravens, top organization and great in scouting .He was behind the long pickup and others they brought in, Roseman still is a accountant, My last thing on this because this is a baseball blog. The jets are already getting praise for the players Douglas is getting,

                3. GRRR. I could say the same to you Rocco. Joe Douglas was there in 2017 barely long enough to make a dent and his draft record for the Eagles was very mixed. You could argue that Douglas is as responsible as anyone else for their current problems.

66. But tells me Franco is gone, he is a good change of scenery for another team, change his mechanics to unlock what couldn’t be unlocked here. In any event, he is gone, which is surprising as a few years ago he was really the only one you could pencil
    In for the future.

    Gut also says Cehe is gone, and because they have a FA/trade insight. I’ve also been told my gut has – – – – for brains

67. MLBTR, Jeff Todd……..Phillies actively pursuing Wheeler, other players Reds, White Sox, Twins, Rangers and Angels….will push $100, 5 years maybe +1.

68. Watch out for the White Sox. Not only do they have the money to drop on a few big ticket items they have the position players in place to take the division. It remains to be seen when they call up Madrigal and Robert and who knows if they will take off or struggle some when they hit the majors.

    Yeah players want their paydays but they also don’t want to suffer through losing seasons.

    I’ve been asking myself if I am a FA Pitcher and all things are equal why are the Phillies more attractive than the other clubs in play for my services.

    I guess what I am saying is the Phillies would have to overpay to get the FA they want.

    I hope our brass isn’t sitting at the table feeling all smug like they did last year thinking they hold all the cards.

69. Al Leiter did a nice break down on Treinen last night with some side by sides from 18 to 19. Clearly he or someone else talked him into getting away from his 2 seamer in lieu of his 4 seamer and to pitch at the top of the zone. It was an epic fail.

    We should be in on that guy. He should be an easy fix because his velo is still there

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