Open Discussion: Week of September 3, 2018

The Phillies continued their slide out of playoff contention.  A week ago they were 3.0 games behind the Braves in the division race and 2.0 games behind the second wild card with the Rockies in front of them.  Now they are 4.0 games behind the Braves and 3.5 games out of the second wild card with two teams in between, the Rockies and Diamondbacks.

The Phillies still have 26 games remaining, 22 against teams in their own division and 4 against the Rockies.  Unfortunately, the Phillies have a losing record within their own division. 

I read the comments.  I know that people are not happy that the Phillies didn’t acquire certain players for the stretch run.  Well,  it’s not like they sat on their hands.  They addressed specific needs without giving up the keys to the prospect treasury.

  • 7/27/18–Mets traded 2B Asdrubal Cabrera to Philadelphia for RHP Franklyn Kilome
  • 7/31/18–Tampa Bay traded C Wilson Ramos to Philadelphia Phillies for PTBNL
  • 7/31/18–Toronto traded LHP Aaron Loup to Philadelphia for RHP Jake Waguespack
  • 8/10/18–Miami traded 1B Justin Bour and $$ to Philadelphia for LHP McKenzie Mills.
  • 8/22/18–White Sox traded LHP Luis Avilan to Philadelphia for RHP Felix Paulino.
  • 8/28/18–Mets traded RF Jose Bautista to Philadelphia for PTBNL

These moves were made to bolster the bench and bullpen.  They were reasonable acquisitions at a reasonable cost.  I know people are looking at the guys that the Nationals traded away and think the Phillies should have been in the mix.  But, I’m not sure that they weren’t.  Nor am I sure that the Nationals would trade with us.  Imagine the PR nightmare of missing out on the playoffs and your fans watching former players helping the Phillies win a division and maybe a playoff series.

Then there’s Cole Hamels.  IMO, there was no reason to trade for Hamels other than the nostalgia factor.  He was having a poor year in Texas, a lot of his stats were career or near-career lows.  Remember when Arrieta was up in arms over shifts?  Imagine Hamels on the mound with all our shifts AND our league worst defense.  Remember how he would glare at players who made errors behind him.  You don’t need that on the mound with a young team.  Yeah, he’s pitching great with the veteran Cubs.  But, there’s no way you can expect that with another team.

And, the Phillies made a serious run at Machado.  I heard stuff.  I would have made the one deal I heard, although the cost was a little steep.  The counter from Baltimore after the Dodgers added Diaz to their offer is where I would also have broken off negotiations.

In addition, on September 1st, the activated Pedro Florimon, Edubray Ramos, Austin Davis; and recalled Yacksel Rios, Aaron Altherr, Dylan Cozens.  And, they expect to activate Jerad Eickhoff early this week.

But, most of all, I love watching Roman Quinn.

This is the Phuture Phillies Open Discussion for baseball topics.

242 thoughts on “Open Discussion: Week of September 3, 2018

  1. It really feels like a young team that has run out of gas. I’m not saying a little win-streak won’t happen, but I think we go home in October. And that’s ok. It will make them hungrier for next year.

    I do feel like almost every position can be upgraded and other than Nola and Hoskins, everybody is on the table. I think the Phillies need to splurge in the free agency market too.

  2. The Phils are 10 games over 500 when Nola pitches and 2 games under when anyone else pitches. So basically they’re a 500 team except when Nola pitches. They’ve lost his last two starts so that puts them sliding downhill. It’s still a successful season as the team learns how to deal with some pressure. Next year is our year.

  3. If I was an objective betting man, I wouldn’t lay coin on the Phillies catching anybody the way they’ve been playing. However, this is the critical week as far as the schedule is concerned. While the Phillies are on the road vs the Fish and Mets, the Braves host the Red Sox for 3, then travel to Arizona for 4. It seems like Atlanta is playing like we were earlier in the season – good young pitching and timely hitting.

    In any case, I’m looking more and more forward to the hot stove season. Machado would have to be obscenely outbid for to be pried away from his desire to play in the Bronx. Harper is a more viable target IMO. But the realignment of this starting lineup defensively is going to be the most important. Klentak must find a creative approach to moving Santana in order to return Hoskins to 1b. The way Franco has been handled recently is CLEARLY telling us that they are moving on from him. I think the same holds true for Cesar and Herrera. Just reading between the lineups, so to speak.

    1. 8mark – I agree with you – Machado is gone to NY and Harper must now be the focus. The infield will have to be rebuilt from the farm, the team, and elsewhere. Recent articles on mlbtrade rumors and Athletic confirm Machado will be in Yankee pinstripes.

        1. plus it makes it more hats off to Phils management for not spending resources renting him this season, doesn’t it?

        2. Romus, saw the other day the great kid 3B will move to play 1st base, Gleyber will eventually become the SS when/if Didi leaves. Yankees really don’t have a mlb 1B as Bird is a bust. They have middle infieders (2B) in the minors – or as we know, find any number of excellent ml 2b from other teams as they are plentiful.

          1. I suppose the Yanks would try moving Andujar to first base to make room for Machado and Didi on the left side of the infield while Torres stays at second.
            It will be an interesting off-season as it looks now..

      1. Look … this team has run out of gas … so … yes, it’s easy to get frustrated and feel like the sky is falling and nothing is ever going to go right again. However … as a Pro Bowl QB once said, “R-E-L-A-X”. 2018 was always (realistically) a year too early. 2019 has always been the target year for contention. Why? Because Middleton and MacKlentak have been saving their nickles and dimes and have been manipulating their payroll to attack this winter’s FA class. This club wants Manny Machado, and they are not going to be outbid. This is an open secret in MLB.

        I absolutely agree with 8mark that this team is showing it’s hand in the lack of PT/benchings of Odubel Herrera and Maikel Franco (maybe even CeHe [sorry rocco … or Tim … or whoever you really are/were]). This team is going to look a lot different next season. MM will primarily play 3B. Before this season, my wild prediction was Roman Quinn would start at least half the Phillies games in 2018. I know injuries got him again, but he has the talent to be “THE GUY” at the top of the lineup. I think the club sees him as their starting CF’er going forward.
        Klentak has a lot of work (FA’s to sign + deals to make) this winter (gotta get a closer). I expect him to be as active as any GM in MLB this winter.

  4. Since this is Open Discussion (sorry) I want to vent. Rhys Hoskins did not hustle on that triple down the left field line by a right-handed batter. Sorry I know it took a funny angle off the short wall but I did not see the sense of urgency by Hoskins. Baez was one step past second base before Hoskins even picked up the ball. This is not the first time or second or even third time I’ve seen this happen. I was livid the TV announcers downplayed the lack of hustle because it was Rhys. Sorry if it were OH, SK or NW it would be picked apart.

    I have also seen another side to Hoskins that bothers me. His rabbit ears. We all know the display in front of the dugout with the fans. People have told me that he has done the same thing while in LF but it did not get the press.

    I was very vocal last season when Nick and J P Crawford were benched over lack of hustle. I commend Nick for learning from that episode. He has been nothing but excellent this season. He deserves recognition for that learning lesson. I hope Hoskins can “get” the message. I hope someone will not coddle him and the broadcast team not sugar coat it.

    On a separate note, is anyone tired of Tom McCarthy constantly saying “he should have done this or that?” I know his kid played college ball but he sounds like the fathers on travel teams.

    1. Not an excuse to lay up on the play, but Bautista vigorously signaled the ball was foul after it went by him. Hoskins still has to make the play but it appeared to me Hoskins pulled out after Bautista’s reaction.

    2. I really don’t get the hate for McCarthy . . he does a good job, is knowledgeable and is a quality human being. I may be bias bc I know the family from coaching against his son but yeah . . . there are bigger things to complain about Also it doesn’t help when he’s replacing a legend.

      1. I think he does a good job. I’ve noticed this on other sites … and the rule of thumb is … everyone hates anyone not named Harry or Whitey. I remember whitey being somewhat intolerable near his final seasons. People love to complain about
        The announcing being going on since Whiteys passing, and accelerated with Harry’s death. No one is harry… people need to understand that and move forward

        1. Whitey and LA are both worthy of praise if only for their refreshing honesty, brutally at times. Harry is truly an icon in broadcasting but quite frankly, Franzke is as smooth, professional and down to earth as anybody in the booth. McCarthy is your stock Broadcast 101 grad. Nice guy but adds little to the enjoyment of the telecast.

  5. Question on yesterday’s game where Quinn got thrown out at third…. did anyone see if he ran through a “stop sign”?

    1. I was at the game yesterday. Román did not run through a stop sign. Happ bobbled the ball slightly but then recovered quickly and made a spectacular throw.

  6. I am not as optimistic about the Phillies getting Harper or Machado this offseason. My concern is that they will be used as leverage in negotiations that those two have with other more desirable locations…the Yankees, Red Sox , Dodgers and Cubs. This is just a gut feeling. I would love to be wrong. Either one would make up for the fact that the Phillies don’t have an Acuna or a Juan Soto. However, the other times the Phillies have landed the best free agents in a particular year have been “perfect storm” situations…Rose, Thome and Cliff Lee.

  7. Murrays comment about the Phillies being over .500 this year because of Nola is dead on…I never saw it that way before

  8. Can we assume that we would gave lost ALL the games nola pitched? If soneone else pitched would we not have won at least 6-8 of them?

  9. The real question is will they score more than 26 runs for the month? Whoever suggested they sit Hoskins got their wish, I guess Kap heard you.

    1. I thought he deserved a least a shot back in the bigs for september… i think the gm needs to find coaches who can wiork with young PItchers or hitterS or fielders who run into a devlopmental wall and need an atittude boost and not a DFA

      1. IAgree.
        Lively went thru a lot this year to come back from the shoulder issues….he should have at least got one last shot in Sept….Eickhoff has not been lights out in his rehab, another week or 10 days of rehab starts, may have done him so good also.

  10. Well, Braves vs Bosox and us vs Marlins presented a chance to make up some ground. 1 run just doesn’t get it done. We need to address D and there is a question about every position. I think thereo is a need for another SP and a closer. I hope Klentak is up to it. There was a chance to make the Playoffs this year and having meaningful games this late is great compared to last year, but no excuses next year, they need to make whatever moves are necessary to make the Playoffs

    1. matt13…..:”having meaningful games this late is great compared to last year, but no excuses next year,’….I think you said it best.
      The bar has been set higher with this year’s surprise surge….and the GM cannot afford to have the team regress next year, since it may cost him his job.
      The reality is…the team could slip back, many teams do, like the Astros a few years ago before their WS season of last year.
      So the GM this off-season needs to carefully lay out a good plan.

  11. i think Kapler plays with line ups like a toddler plays with legos – changes daily wiithout logical rhyme or reason- For many players who start regulaly, the positions they play on the field & position # they are the lineup changes so much that there is no consistency and the players lose confidence..

    He seems to not to like allowing his players to play in their natural positions

    as for Klentak —I think that sending Elflin down to the minor in July to open a play spot was a lousy thing to do to the young starter and screwed up his pitching pyche

    also — for Klentak —Some of the trades were marginal as well – esp the BP help,,,

    1. While I have thought well of Kapler’s handling of the position players (except for Kingery), right now he seems to be playing fiddle faddle with the lineup daily. Just trying different things for the sake of it.

      Instead, I would rather he commit to certain players now moving forward since the rollover from this season into next is of greater importance. For instance, play Quinn in CF indefinitely, let Kingery get the final month at 2b under his belt. Crawford at ss in September would at least stabilize the position defensively. Do we really need to find out about anyone else on the squad? The elephant in the room currently is Hoskins in LF. I’d rather see him finish the season at 1b, play Santana at 3b for all I care because Franco is probably gone come winter anyway. I do think Williams will become a steady 400+ PAs per season player. His future is more a question of what team he’ll be playing for.

      1. Regarding the recent lineups during this regression, it seems Gabe is making them up as if he was in Grapefruit League mode.

  12. About a month ago, a few of you posted Top 30 lists and invited others. So I began updating my list from b.o.y., but then only recently circled back to complete it. Honestly it’s fluid and debatable even with myself from one day to another.

    1 Sixto Sanchez RHP 20
    2 Adonis Medina RHP 21
    3 Adam Haseley OF 22
    4 Alec Bohm 3B 22
    5 JoJo Romero LHP 21
    6 Spencer Howard RHP 22
    7 Luis Garcia SS 17
    8 Mickey Moniak OF 20
    9 Francisco Morales RHP 18
    10 Jhailyn Ortiz OF 19
    11 Enyel De Los Santos RHP 22
    12 Arquimedes Gamboa SS 20
    13 Cornelius Randolph OF 21
    14 Daniel Brito 2B 20
    15 Ben Pelletier OF 20
    16 Ranger Suarez LHP 22
    17 Kyle Young LHP 20
    18 Ethan Lindow LHP 19
    19 Rafael Marchan C 19
    20 Simon Muzziotti OF 19
    21 Drew Anderson RHP 24
    22 Cole Irvin LHP 24
    23 Abrahan Gutierrez C 18
    24 Deivi Grullon C 22
    25 Logan O’Hoppe C 18
    26 Jonathan Guzman SS 19
    27 Bailey Falter LHP 21
    28 Mauricio Llovera RHP 22
    29 Carlos De La Cruz OF 18
    tie, 30 Nicolas Torres 2B 18
    tie, 30 Dominic Pipkin RHP 18

    Kevin Gowdy RHP 20 (Hopefully jumps back into Top 20 by Spring if healthy.)

    1. I’ve mentioned before that Silva is the best LHP prospect below AA+. Bailey Falter is a personal favorite of mine and might be the better prospect as of now, but Silva can have a higher ceiling. Silva may not post Ranger-like numbers, but he’s stuff is better.

    2. @murray – another LA prospect to watch is Victor Santos. For a teenager, his command is almost impeccable and he can strike batters out. I’ve seen reports about him and he projects like Adonis Medina.

  13. Roman Quinn is my favorite new young Phillie to watch since I don’t know when, maybe Shane Victorino. Nothing like that blinding speed.

  14. This is eye opening for a couple of reasons:

    1. This is probably a sign that the FO agrees that the player development staff is more the problem with the former first round picks than the scouting and procurement staff.
    2. Joe Jordan has the closest connection to Manny Machado of anyone in the Phillies FO. Middleton and MacKlentak must be very confident they have the cash to outbid every other team (including the Yankees).

    1. Regarding your first point Hinkie, from the Gelb article it sounds like the rift was more about approach than results. Klentak has been bringing on more people with an analytics-heavy approach and Jordan had more of a scouting background. The article didn’t have quotes from sources citing the recent uneven play of the 1st rounders as a reason Jordan was leaving, although that could be because they didn’t want to smear Jordan on the way out.

    2. Sounds like what many of us have suspected – player development has been the bigger issue, not talent evaluation/draft selection (i.e. Mickey Mo’s resurgence after his swing was re-adjusted to his original). Good to see they are responding to necessary changes.

          1. If Almaraz was going, it would have been after he signed all this year’s picks. He’s safe for another draft. And he should be. As I’ve pointed out time and time again … when you judge his entirety of work, Johnny A has done a very good job. IMO, the removal of Joe Jordan is more of a confirmation that the club is happy with Almaraz’s performance, and blames the Phillies’ development staff for the less than expected performance from the team’s recent #1 picks.

            1. ehhhh . . . I haven’t made my mind up about him yet. The depth of his drafts appear to be good, but he’s got to hit on a reasonable share of top 10 picks – it’s unclear now how he did on that front.

            2. It was said that Joe Jordan lost voice in the recent draft. For the 4 drafts under Johnny A., the recent draft is the one I like the most despite without Rd 2 and 3 picks. The last 3 drafts had been “too safe” that lacks upside.

              Without knowing the maneuvering behind the curtain, it is really hard to know who is responsible for the success and failure of the rules 4 draft.

              i’m actually “ish” with Johnny A. for the reason i mentioned above (“too safe”), but if the 2018 draft is the real indication of what his “eye” is, then, there is sense to keep him and let Joe Jordan walk away. Hopefully, NYY don’t sign Joe Jordan ASAP and snatch Machado away in the offseason.

            3. I disagree on safety. While I hope Almaraz is safe, his predecessor, Marti Wolever, was fired in late September, not “after he signed all that year’s picks”.

            4. Jim … True. Woelever was fired in late September, but that was a RAJ move. Historically, teams change Scouting Directors right after they wrap up the draft/sign their picks. Work for the next draft begins immediately. The director needs to scout the Cape and the numerous HS summer showcases. We’ll see, but I’d bet Almaraz isn’t going anywhere.

      1. I do not like this development as MacKlentak tend to overanalyze everything and outsmart themselves. There should be a healthy balance between analytics and scouting.

    1. Interesting comments from Jordan. Praised the old guard to a man – steely silence on the new team – so there were obviously some problems there. I mean, usually, a guy says one nice throw away thing just to play nice – but nope – nothing.

    2. Went to the Athletic site and beside the Joe Jordan article there was an interview by Ken Rosenthal with Ruben Amaro Jr. Could not read the article at work but I wonder if anyone read and found it interesting.

  15. Since the Phillies offense is running out of gas and Kapler’s circuit act is not working, why not just ride this looking “for the Phuture Phillies” roster for the rest of the year:

    CF Quinn – S
    2B Kingery – R
    LF Hoskins – R
    RF Williams – L
    C Ramos (or Alfaro) – R
    1B Bour – L
    3B Franco – R (last hurrah as he will be replaced by Machado)
    SS Crawford – L

      1. Kapler made about 110+ difference combinations and none of them work. Defense is terrible and with trades no longer available, there’s nothing there can do to fix the terrible defense. At least putting Quinn, Kingery and Kingery at their best defensive position can possibly help it. I like to see Hoskins at 1B and move Nick from RF to LF and insert Cozens at RF, but between Bour and Cozens, I like to see more of Bour since that due is 30 yo and the Phils need to know if he’s part of the future or not.

        1. You can’t bat the worst hitter in the NL in the 2 hole.

          Other than my point about moving Hoskins to 1B as opposed to Bour, that would be a decent enough lineup for September.

          1. Kapler has been trying to be analytically smart and following the same thought process that you are saying but to no avail. Kingery, IMO, is better than his statistics is saying.

            1. I’m a believer in you are exactly what the back of your baseball card says you are, and Kingery is simply bad offensively (at this point in time). You simply cannot hit him 2nd, arguably the most important spot in the line up b/c you think he may be better than awful. I understand playing him every day, but if that’s the play then he hits 8th. Or 9th.

            2. @rick – if you read the very first words i say —- “looking for the Phuture Phillies” …. which means I’m looking for the future now, not 2018. This team is not good enough to win 2018 so if Kingery is part of the “Phuture”, then why not play him in his best position and his projected best position in the order. Quinn and Kingery in the top of the order can ran havoc in the basepaths with Hoskins driving them.

              As I said, I’m looking ahead and playing the long game. You can continue to crunch your numbers but 2018 looks lost. If the Phillies can win it back, why not with the line up that will look like your future line up.

            3. @rick – and also, it’s too early to jump on conclusion with Kingery. How many games did he play in his regular position? so the “back of the baseball card” you are talking about is premature conclusion.

              Offense remains putrid even with the heavy analytics that Kapler is doing. This means that the team is not good enough to win. If your team is not good enough to win, your priority will be player development and get ready for the future. As long as the Phillies, still saw the skill set that made them sign Kingery long term, they have to believe in the skills set and not on the stats/back of the baseball card thinking.

            4. On your first point, I 100% disagree that Kingery projects as the #2 hole hitter in the future. That being said, you can’t hit them there now because he may in the future be a reasonable option. At the moment he isn’t, you’d simply be giving away outs.

              Second, at no point was I jumping to a conclusion on Kingery, merely stating a fact. He has been horrid offensively this season this is not up for debate. Clearly the FO sees something as they’ve signed him to that contract and that’s fine he may work out to be an above average offensive player. He simply is not right now and therefore he cannot hit 2nd. This is a pretty easy and logical conclusion.

            5. @rick – except hoskins, nobody in the offensive line up has done enough to hold certain batting order in the line up — as in nobody except for the healthy Roman Quinn. Ramos can hit, but cannot stay in the field. Everybody is like an automatic out, so if you think that Kingery is bad enough to be the #2 hitter, then Cesar is a bad #1, Doobie is a bad #3 and you can go on with every bat in the line up (again, except for Hoskins).

              The offense collectively is bad, really bad. Don’t just pinpoint it with Kingery. Kingery hitting #2 is no different than hitting #7/#8 is the batting order collectively is bad and/or inconsistent.

              Again, with 112 different starting combinations, Kapler has done enough to analytically find the right batting order. Throw Bour and Kingery and see if that works.

            6. Kinery isn’t suddenly going to start hitting if he’s in the #2 hole (arguably where your best hitter goes). He’s arguably the worst hitter on the team. You want him to play everyday and get ABs, that’s fine he can hit 8th. EVen when he starts producing (let’s just stipulate that happens in the coming years even though its not guaranteed) he’s not hitting 2nd.

              You’re right Cesar is a bad #1 but Quinn healthy makes that point moot. Hoskins hits 2nd, the rest of your order stays as is and Kingery hits 8th. Maybe next year he produces enough to hit 7th. But hitting him 2nd and giving away 4 outs a night is simply silly.

            7. @rick – ok, so how do you want to assemble the line up? You’re picking up on Kingery, but I’m certain that anybody can pick up 5 holes in any Phillies line up since the offense is really bad. You can put Quinn at #1 then Hoskins at #2, then the #3-#8 are mish mash. Regardless who you put in the top of the line up this is a bad offensive team.

    1. Quit already?

      2007 Phils after 137 games: 72-65, 5GB of 1st
      2018 Phils after 137 games: 72-65, 4GB of 1st

        1. They were in the midst of a streak in which they lost 5 of 6. Starting in mid september, they went on a streak where they won 9 of 10.

          I’m not suggesting this team is going to surge into the playoffs based on the way their playing. But to write off an entire season when they’re only four games out with a month to play and say, “Oh, well, let’s see what the kids can do …” that’s preposterous.

          1. Few differences to consider.
            ’07’s defense is head and shoulders above ’18’s.
            OTOH, ’18’s starters, led by Nola, may be a bit better than ’07’s. led by Cole.

            1. @romus – agree, pitching is the reason why the 2018 Phillies is 4 within striking distance than being a Top 10 Rule 4 draft pick again.

              The 2007 defense is way better almost in all spots and the bats are an offensive juggernaut waiting to explode.

              looking at the surface, Mike Honcho is correct. But you have to look deeper than that to come up with a better conclusion. this is similar to the back of the baseball card theory about Kingery.

            2. What better conclusion? My argument is that you shouldn’t use the final weeks of a pennant race you are very much involved in to conduct tryouts for next season.

    1. Cosign. The defense is so bad its hard to watch, and while Hoskins isn’t a plus defender at 1B at least he’s not costing them runs on a nightly basis like he is in LF.

    2. I’ve mentioned that I preferred to move Hoskins to 1B but I like to use the last month to see what the Phils got in Justin Bour (who I think is a 1B guy only) considering Bour is here to stay for few more years and he’s 30 yo!!

    3. Defensively, I still believe that SS, 2B, CF and C are the most crucial defensive positions so putting Quinn at CF, Kingery at 2B, JPC at SS and Ramos at C can help address that.

  16. I’m out last week, not sure if this was shared here…

    Jose Pujols is back in the Top 30 and some breakouts like Will Stewart, Rafael Marchan, Austin Listi, Jake Scheiner made it too. Moniak is #7 so my early Top 12 ranking for him is not bad at all.

    Mo Llovera is a hard take, he’s not a long term SP but with a live arm. As a high leverage pen arm and a potential 40-man entry, I believe Mo Llovera deserves to be in the Top 30.

    1. Very happy for Jose Pujols and his success this year. Understand he had the benefit of repeating the level but he took the challenge presented to him and ran with it. Really good year for him.

    1. Still under-appreciated by most fans, imo. Yes, his later seasons were sad to watch. And his defense, unfortunately, never rose above below average. But his first four or five years in red pinstripes were truly captivating, and he’ll probably go down as the greatest Phillies 1B of my lifetime (only 26 years old at the moment; and rhys hoskin’s star will probably never shine as brightly as howard’s did, although he may well have a longer and more productive career). Fare thee well, big man!

    1. Agree on the sell high part. He doesn’t do too much for me, but if you can get something for him, go for it.

  17. The Phillies kept Valentin for now. If he’s exposed to Rule 5, he might be taken since he has a nice profile as a back up INF. Depending on Lively’s health status, he might be claimed (possibly by CIN) in the waivers.

  18. Roman At Seven For Sprint Speed”…Competitive Runs…Sprint Speed (ft / sec)
    1 Buxton, Byron……… MIN 35… 30.5
    2 Mondesi, Adalberto… KC 64… 30.1
    3 Hamilton, Billy…….. CIN 172…30.1
    4 Bader, Harrison…… STL 120…30.1
    5 Turner, Trea……… WSH 210…30.1
    6 Engel, Adam………. CWS 155…30.0
    7 Quinn, Roman…….. PHI 40….30.0

    1. Quinn is the only hitter who i think can perform as expected. With big question on Quinn’s ability to stay in the field, Kapler should be utilizing Quinn while he’s healthy.

      This team is not good offensively, Kapler should not expect too much regardless of how he fix the line up. Both Carlos and Doobie are statistically bad as lead off hitter and #3 hitter and yet Kingery batting 2nd is a crime.

      1. It’s so easy to second-guess everything. Some years, stuff just doesn’t quite come together and things don’t break your way. I liked the moves they made to get extra hitting, but it just didn’t pan out – sometimes it just turns out that way. The younger players didn’t improve as much as one would hope, but there’s time. Finishing above .500 is an accomplishment for a team that lost well over 90 games last year. Yes, they are frustrating as all heck but they are a much improved team nonetheless.

  19. catch, I agree. It cost very little to add the Bats, but the overall Offense is not very good. The question is, what do we have going forward? Who do you think is ready to break out? We’ve talked before about the idea that every position may be best served by someone different Opening Day than this year. I don’t see that happening, so what do we really know going into next year? Hoskins can play but needs to up his game. Nola can Pitch. Arrieta will be in the rotation. Who else are we counting on the make a Playoff team? I nominate Roman Quinn. I like Kingery, but I want him at 2B. What do you think?

    1. @matt13 – at this point, the Phillies has no choice but to rely on the veterans (Santana, Cabrera, Ramos, Arrieta, Hunter, Neshek) to man up and carry the fight. These vets should start producing the next 3 weeks, otherwise, it will be game over

    2. matt13…the defense, up the middle as they say, has to be better.
      Kingery (4) and JPC (6) are my choices, both plus defense in the minors at their respective positions….CF-Quinn and Altherr until Haseley/Moniak come on board.
      Then finally the fourth piece of that defense…catching….Alf has to go.
      Great attitude, great raw tools (arm, power and speed-2nd fastest catcher in baseball next to JT ‘keeping it’ Realmuto) but it is the other stuff, catching for instance, sheeesh.
      Try to sign Ramos….who is not Yadier Molina, but is better than this year’s overall catching metrics.
      If not able to sign Ramos….then trade for Austin Hedges, since I think Padres are counting on now former Indians top prospect, Francisco Mejia, to be starting next season there.

  20. According to Todd Z, J-Roll will be hanging with Gabe to offer some perspective. JP Crawford has joined the big club in Franco’s (wrist) absence for depth. Maiky likely headed back home for a MRI.

  21. What an interesting week to come. Joe Jordan didn’t see eye to eye with the front office. Rumor has it he was tired of getting his legs cut out from under him on farm players. 25 games to go and 4 games back. After looking through some of the predictions that I copied and pasted pre season, once again I am convinced that this team has been over achieving and yet the same ol loser mentality coming from some of the fan base. 4 games back
    ? I would think that I could have taken all of that bet preseason and be hitting it big. I make my prediction. The boys will turn it around just in time to make the playoffs. I think I said this way back march or so….and they will certainly have a better record than most gave them credit for. I really don’t care who are the top 50 players are cuz I only care about the ones that will help us win now. There are no guarantee that we even get to this point next year. Why didn’t Joey M. get the call up instead of Cozen? I have started to think that the front office is more worried about the big signing bonuses failing more than they are about getting there best PLAYERS up to the bigs. I for one never thought Kingerly was ever going to be a big bat with the Phils, but I do think he is a player and players win somehow. Until Franco discovered he has a sore wrist, he has PLAYED much better than most gave him credit for pre season. Santana never made sense to me. Rhys at first made sense. Scott at short makes sense . Franco has made some killer plays from third. Nola has been great. Arr has been as expected. Bummed out about Pullin and his health. Thought he was going to make a splash this year. All n all this has been a fun season to watch. I have not spend much time thinking about the phuture phills. When the big team is competing that takes my attention. Time will tell

  22. Joe Jordan understood talent and that bit about winners. The front office wants to take big fast guys and turn them into ball players. No way they could see eye to eye. Joe was probably tired of having his legs cut out from beneath him.

  23. I know I said this season was over a few days ago. So, I’m either bipolar or I just don’t know what I’m talking about … because … I now give the Phillies a 20% chance of being in first place by this Sunday night, and a 50% chance of being in first place by next Sunday night.

    Baseball … you gotta’ love it !

    1. Hinkie, I think you sum up the internal struggle of many of us who live and die with this tension between frustration and hope. Fortunately, or unfortunately, depending on the strength of Phillies fan’s coping mechanism, the Braves schedule is difficult. Does that postpone our inevitable heartache or provide us with a serpentine thrill ride? But you’re right, it’s better than the alternative – figuring which pick we’ll get next June.

    2. A lot of other people jumped off of the bandwagon too. It’s going to come down to the final weekend. We just have to stay close enough to steal the division crown at the end.

      1. Wawa….two more wins and the Phillies beat the Vegas odds makers.
        Go .500 in the last 24 and the Phillies end up with 85 wins….that is a successful season from what was expected in March.

      1. Betts, JD, and Boegarts sitting today. When the Red Sox hire Popovich?
        At least Freeman sitting too.
        imagine if you bought a ticket for that one.

  24. I don’t know if Klentak is a good GM or not, but we will sure learn a lot this off season. I don’t know the inner workings of the team, so the rift between Joe Jordan and Klentak’s analytics people we can only guess at. But you have to have multiple approaches to anything you do to be successful. You can’t just rely on analytics, we all know the value of “old school” scouting. You need a mix, and Klentak can not surround himself with yes men. But, as I said, we will know shortly. This off season is crucial, and our GM better have multiple Plans to move forward. We need a bunch of holes filled, and there is no guarantee Machado fills one of them. If he goes elsewhere, this may be a long off season. We may put too much pressure on this off season, but I have a feeling that John Middleton is looking at it the same way we are here.

    1. Some of the media and fans have put their eggs in the Machado basket but Klentak needs to be judged on how he addresses the team’s issues in total this off-season.

      Machado would be a good fit but there are a number of other options available via both FA and trade that he can use to help the team make the next jump. The #1 issue that needs fixed is the defense, which is sub-par at every position. Hoskins cannot play LF so they need to figure out how he plays 1b in 2019. the CeHe/Kingery situation needs resolved at 2b, they need a SS and/or 3b which is where Machado comes in.

      In the OF, Doobie is not good enough defensively to play CF and they need at least 1 corner OF (probably 2 if Hoskins moves).

      They have a number of 4th/5th starter options but can use a reliable #2/3 starter while waiting for Eflin//Pivetta/VV or one of the guys in the minors to make that jump to the front of a rotation. They also have a lot of good arms in the pen but need some more reliability.

      They have a number of good players but they do not fit together very well. Klentak needs to figure out the right combination..

      1. You may have overlooked the most critical defensive position going forward…catching.
        Both Alf and Knapp are just too inadequate overall.
        Try to resign Ramos….he is better than both Alf and Knapp defensively
        If not able to sign him, I would then try to trade for Realmuto, but understand Rizzo and Nats look to be the front runners there, if not successful with getting Realmuto, i would go for Padres Hedges, who will be displaced by Mejia next season.
        Grandal will also be out there but he is just a little too old to start with in a rebuild phase.

        1. Klentak should look to swap Franco for Hedges and possibly throw in Grullon or Cabral as a back up C that the Padres can use.

          1. Why not just throw in Knapp or Alf as their backup…and maybe bring back added a little more int’l money then.

            1. Knapp has more value in AL than NL and the resurging Grullon is probably more appealing to SD since he’s young, defensively good and showing good upside.

              I want somebody better than Hedges to give up Alfaro. Maybe use Alfaro in a package to get a solid starter — I’ll talk to the White Sox if they want Alfaro and somebody else and buy low on Carlos Rodon.

        2. Yes, you are right that the catching position needs to be addressed. I’m ok with them going another season with Alfaro as long as they add a good veteran defensive option as a backup who gets significant playing time. The combination of Alfaro/Knapp is/was horrible. I’m not sold that Ramos is much better defensively but he is certainly an offensive upgrade. IF they think they have their future catcher in the system, then use both Knapp/Alfaro as trade pieces and go with a veteran stop-gap….

          I’m certainly good them them making a run at Realmuto but the price will be steep and there will be a # of teams in the competition..

          1. The Marlins wouldn’t trade Realmuto to Washington unless the Nationals included Juan Soto or Victor Robles. That means the Phillies would have to include Sixto Sanchez in a deal for the Miami catcher. You’re probably looking at something like Sixto, Jorge Alfaro, and JoJo Romero.
            Realmuto might be worth that. However (IMO) … if the Phillies were going to give the Marlins those three players, they should have done it for Christian Yelich last winter.

      2. Assuming Machado is ticketed for the NYY (while I do believe Middleton will drive the price way up), Harper is a good bet for the Phillies.

        I also think there’s a possibility Klentak will try to move Santana simply because everybody and their uncle knows Hoskins absolutely must move back to 1b, which then opens up the outfield for more viable options. Williams in LF alongside Quinn and Harper would suit me.

        Solidify the middle infield defense with JPC and Kingery and let their bats develop while the corners carry the burden offensively. So, that leaves the question – who plays 3b? That’s where Klentak needs to score. Trade from the pool of Santana, Cesar, Doobie, Franco, two or three of our top level young starters, perhaps a couple position players like Listi and Meneses. A #2 or #3 SP could be had with a package, assuming we also target a free agent TOR.

        Catching? Ramos if we can keep him with Alf under his tutelage. Otherwise, yes I would like a guy like Hedges if only to solidify up the middle.

        1. If in fact Manny does sign with NYY, that should free up one of Didi, Torres or Andujar. (Unless they shift Andujar to 1b.) Maybe a blockbuster and include Clint Frasier? Gregorius turns FA after ’19. Just spitballing here…

    2. I don’t think they believe that analytics is the be all and end all. They are trying to get ahead of this trend and blend all methodologies from what I can tell. I have no problem with their general approach. What I need to see done better is talent evaluation. I am really good with our L.A. people (Sal and company) particularly as it relates to pitching and middle infield talent – we could do better on our OF signings, but, on the whole, it’s a plus. Our domestic, pre-draft, talent evaluation is mixed – they are really good at low to middle draft picks.

      Our big league talent evaluation, in my view, has been terrible. Where are the trades for guys like Trea Turner, Justin Turner, Chris Taylor, Jake Arrieta (pre-breakout), Max Muncey? That needs to improve starting immediately.

      1. catch … Trea Turner was traded for as a minor leaguer/just drafted player. None the less, your point (about big league talent evaluation) is a valid one. I’m not sure there’s a big enough sample size to judge Klentak on his trades for MLB players. But his decisions on FA spending can surely be questioned. Santana and Arrieta have been just so-so this year. Santana may rebound with a better 2019, but IMO, Arrieta will only regress going forward. And … who could forget Klentak’s boneheaded decision to let Charlie Morton walk/not pick up his option and replace him (with similar salary) with Clay Buchholz ?

        1. Yeah, but the Turner trade speaks to that team’s talent evaluation. The Morton/Buchholz decision was infuriating because, before he got hurt, Morton’s stuff was electric. It was like they couldn’t scout their own major league player – very frustrating.

          I’m not as down on Arrieta as you are – his velocity his rebounded quite a bit this year. I think he’ll be fine for the next couple of years.

          1. Cannot believe Bucjholz this year…a 3bWAR pitcher
            He looked lost last season.
            GMs sometimes have to have the vision to see when a player peaks or rebounds….and sometimes plain luck is involved.

          2. Do you mean getting Buck instead of Morton, or letting both of them go just to see them do well for the next team?

  25. Looks like Boston is mailing today’s game in. Down big in 5th inning. Sox going with bullpen from the mound. Recall somebody here wanted us to pursue lefty Drew Pomeranz. That was a great non-move.

    1. 8mark…that was me….and still would try to pursue Pomeranz next season….but it was under the caveat as only a short-term length FA signing. And now he may be receptive to that to re-establish his value.

    2. the game has suddenly morphed into an all time classic. just following it at work but has the feel of that game where the Phils came back on the Mets that one afternoon, was it in 2007? Brandon Phillips!

      1. I was at that 2007 game in the HOF club (only game I’ve ever attended there). Single best game I ever saw in person. Unreal.

      2. This is a dagger in Atlanta’s heart. Wow! Up 7-1 heading into 8th. Sox post a 6 spot, Mookie Ks with sacks loaded, 2 outs. Then Freeman goes yard. 8-7. Top 9th, Phillips stings his old mates with a 2 run HR. What a gift for the Phillies who need to take care of business tonight.

  26. Tonight’s lineup:
    Santana 5
    Bour 3
    Cabrera 6
    Hoskins 7
    Williams 9
    Hernandez 4
    Alfaro 2
    Pivetta 1
    Quinn 8

    ….oy vey…Carlos at third base

    1. ….Asdrubal at ss is just as troubling. That’s one scary left side. Gabe must be having some kind of out of body experience when he sits down and makes the lineup. He better win with this one.

        1. I think Kingery and Crawford, despite their limitations at the plate thus far, should be assigned 2b and ss respectively for defense alone. This team will not make the playoffs with the hodgepodge alignment Gabe employs game in and game out. Quinn should play every game in CF. I can live with Santana at 3b for a game here and there only if it moves Rhys to 1b which improves the outfield by default. With tonight’s lineup, Kapler’s biggest advantage is that they’re playing the Marlins. If it was against a playoff contender, Gabe, are you for real?

  27. That is one interesting lineup! I want to see the Nick Pivetta that was sharp earlier this season, and I want to see them go after it, knowing the Braves just took one of those gut punches. Bour, hopefully, kills his former team the way he always killed us!

  28. Well, I’m sure glad the team got inspired from watching the Braves collapse this afternoon. All an opposing manager has to do is call up some obscure arm to face the Phillies. It’s almost a sure way to shut them down. Someone needs to wave some smelling salt under Rhys’ nose. Forget about his defense. The man is completely lost at the plate.

    1. 8mark..spot on with Rhys needing smelling salts.
      Not sure why he needs to take so many FBs down the middle early in the count.
      When he is ahead in the count, he also ends up striking out 13% of the time….just too much for a hitter like him from what i recall from his minor league career metrics..
      And when he gets to a full count….his strike out rate soars to 26% with a BA of .209 but otoh a OBP >.400…….meaning he may be looking for a walk.
      His wRC+ is the lowest it has been in his career since he was drafted and played in short-ball Williamsport in 2014.
      I hope it is just a sophomore thing and next season he adjusts and does what he needs to do.

      1. Rhys seems like a good guy. However, he might be Gabe’s poster boy for everything being green grass and high tides. This positivity may be appealing at the surface but I think it also stifles any sense of urgency. Somebody needs to start playing like his ass is on fire. In other words, team leadership.

  29. This team can be maddening… and it is not fun to watch. This is the least amount of excitement I’ve had watching a playoff run. Granted, I could just be getting grumpier as I age, but the team is stale to me. Quinn is fun to watch, and others too, but watching this team trying to grind out a run against a AAA team is like going to the dentist.

    On another note… I feel like this team and it’s attitude towards losses is the end product of the everyone gets a trophy generation … in every interview, no one like annoyed, pissed, mad, … anything. I’m trying to keep the faith, maybe they just plan on sweep all 7 games against the Braves 🙂

    1. Team is not that fun to watch because they are a very unathletic team. They don’t go 1st to 3rd on base hits, don’t steal bases, take extra bases, etc. This team actually reminds me of the Abreu years that played without much pulse. They need a change of leadership in the clubhouse (player leadership).

  30. You are all correct. There was no sense of excitement after realizing the Braves had blown that big lead. They had not seen Alcantara before but all of the scouting reports remarked on how many ground balls he gets. So, why did we ground out the opposite way so often? How about staying with the pitch and going the opposite way? Why has every good hitter been able to do that, but it seems to not be a consideration with this team? Doobie comes up to pinch hit with a runner on base, and promptly grounds the 1st pitch to the 2B for a DP. He can’t go the opposite way? What a useless AB that was. And Rhys looks lost. His last K was on a pitch that was a breaking ball and started a foot outside, and kept going further away. He had zero chance to hit it.The whole AB did not consist of a single good swing. Wilson Ramos, who has hit very well for us, struck out on 3 breaking pitches he had to bend over to try to hit. One awful AB. The list goes on and on.

    1. If I were the owner and they continued this for three more weeks….then this off season there better be changes made in the overall construction of this team.
      For one, the teams overall speed is poor…..the bases are clogged and they have to go station to station…whenever there are hits to the outfield and runners on first or second.
      The team defense…..obviously horrific.

      Nola’s superb year masked obvious issues.

  31. Agreed Romus, And I really hate to harp on the negatives, because they have done better than I thought. But, I expect 2019 to be a Playoff year, and I see so many holes. Quinn, and, maybe, Kingery, are the only 2 who can score from 2d on a single with less than 2 outs, and the only 2 who can go 1st to 3rd. So, you are correct. They go station to station. Basically, they look for BBs, and then a HR. A major problem when there are not enough true HR hitters on the team. I don’t really have a problem if a Ryan Howard tries to hit HRs, but this seems to be the prevailing approach throughout this roster. Roman Quinn needed to just square up and get a single last night. Instead, he, also, was swinging for a HR. That has to change. They need to then upgrade the D. They need a real closer. If Manny comes here to play SS, that doesn’t help the D. So, it better be great at 2d and CF. I want to re-sign Ramos. And, I hire Chooch to be the Catching Coach. Not based on nostalgia, but he was terrific behind the plate and I think he can help both Ramos, with the Pitching Staff, and Alfaro with the nuances of Catching. Except for his arm, Alf’s D has been poor.The last thing I want from the organization is to be told that they are still evaluating what they have, and they are putting off spending big $ until 2020.

    1. matt13….do not even think of that aspect….”the organization is to be told that they are still evaluating”…..I think the fan base do not want to hear that also.

    2. Phillies hitting … not good
      Phillies defense … stinks !
      Phillies base running … stinks !
      Closer ? …. NO !

      Gabe Kapler deserves votes for Manager Of The Year for keeping this group in contention this long.

      Romus … Yes. Middleton and MacKlentak are going to be very busy this winter giving this club a makeover. Lot’s of money spent in free agency. Active in the trade market. Anything goes.

      1. That’s the one thing I’m looking forward to, Hinkie. It may be almost surreal as having the Eagles becoming Super Bowl champs. FWIW, yesterday on his live chat, Jason Martinez of MLBTR proposed that Harper will sign here, followed by Trout in 2021, and then Bryce’s pal Kris Bryant in 2022. The MLBTR guys have opinions just like other national guys, but I find theirs to be pretty objective and thoughtful.

          1. Okay, Hinkie. I’ll go first…

            Sixto, Haseley, Ortiz, Romero, Bohm, Herrera, Seranthony and Velasquez
            IF Trout would agree to an extension. 12/$480M. That’s $40M AAV.

            Personally, I don’t think we have the depth of prospects to offer, so adding a major league talent like Dominguez might be unavoidable. A contract extension may actually not work to our advantage.

            1. Expect Trout’s AAV to be north of $45M. He already makes $34M and he’s going to get more than a $6 M per year raise.

            2. Catch, I just couldn’t resist Hinkie’s bait post. This was just a dream sequence. But the Angels are bound to repeat the O’s mistake which in their case will be bigger because Trout is far greater than Machado.

            3. Let’s say for the sake of argument that it’s the 2020 trade deadline. What then might you offer for Trout? (Would Luis Garcia be untouchable?)

  32. Romus – Of course there will be changes in the offseason. Honestly, I’m not patting myself on the back, but last winter I suggested that the Phillies sell high on Herrera and Hernandez. I was crucified on every site in town. Everyone assumed that I hated them, but I just didn’t see them on a World Series team. I predicted that Herrera would lead the league in BA (wrong on that one). Herrera has problems with focusing more than anything. You need to assess the situation, and have a plan before you step into the batters box. If the situation calls for a fly ball or a ball hit to the right side, you look for a pitch which will allow you to succeed. In the case for Cesar, he has had the same BA for two consecutive seasons. He was as good as he was going to be. They could have sold high, and now they will have to settle for mediocre.
    Nola has been brilliant, and Jake has been pretty much what I expected, but Pivetta and Velasquez have taken steps forward. I hated to see Lively go because I still believe he’s a #3 or #4 pitcher, and there were other players that Klentak could have let go.

    1. Wawa….agree.
      The Phillies hanging onto may young players….good, but not great…now leaves them in a very tough spot this off-season.
      Surplus is not always a good thing.

    2. You could say sell high on Cesar all you wanted last winter. There was no “high” to be had. Neil Walkers market showed that.

  33. Like Rocky’s manager Mick said, “speed – fast, greasy speed”. In professional sports, the biggest difference between one level and the next is speed. Speed separates a good player (team) and a better player (team) is speed. The velocity of the game (no, not the elapsed time of actual playing action) is what separates men from boys. And in baseball, historically speed disrupts, and distracts the opposing defense. Speed kills. Yet, whatever benefits the analytical approach has brought recently, it has primarily marginalized speed and the subtle nuances of the game. Unless you have a murderer’s row for a lineup, there’s that much more need for speed. One Roman Quinn in an otherwise poor lineup is way too little. It seems like baseball has forsaken the rule that actually allows a baserunner to “steal” the next base, or try to take an extra base. The game, as much as I still love it, us no longer whole. It’s become a morph of math majors who are looking to dumb everything down to exit velos and launch angles. What about the basepaths? Is it because the powers that be have grown weary of trying to reach and teach the short attention spans that have reached the highest level of the game?

    Alright I’m done my rant. Whatever happens between now and the last weekend, this Phillies season will likely be known as the year of missed opportunities –
    on and off the field – however much progress the club has made from last season.

    1. A few days ago, I posted that I liked signing Santana, Bour, Cabrea, Ramos, Bautista. I just don’t like signing all of them.

      It was a good idea to add one or two veteran bats, but not a whole line up of slow old guys.

      Play the young guys who played most of the season and we’d have more speed. Play Kingery at 2B and Crawford at SS and we’d have better D. Let Hoskins play 1B more often.

      It was refreshing and optimistic hearing the young guys talk about how they won together in the minor leagues and now they’re bringing their team spirit to the Big Leagues. That was before Klentak decided he needed to add old, slow batters to clinch a division title.

      As someone on another site said earlier today, Klentak did not trust the process.

      Finally I’ve been back and forth on Kapler, but his line ups are at best mystifying. And bringing in oh-for-19 pinch hitter Florimon for “the” key at-bat in the ninth….

      I saw Florimon several times during his rehab with the Threshers. He wasn’t up to the competition then, no less rushing him back to the Major Leagues.

      1. BTW, my comment on playing Kingery at 2B is not a knock at Cesar. It is meant that 1) it’s better to play Kingery at his natural position and 2) he’s the 2B of the future so let’s get on with it.

          1. Frank……Lively could have garnered $500K of int’l money if the GM had any foresight and tried to move him in July or August, even when he was in rehab.. Wish he were more proactive vs reactive.

            1. Romus, I just read your comment on the Threshers Recap thread re: Klentak.

              Think it’s time to move on from him, also?

              And, if so, would McPhail-Middleton do it?

            2. Frank…..IMO, he will get one more year…this time next year will probably be the decision time….team stays the same as it is now or regresses…he is a goner.
              A lot will be riding on them making the playoffs next season.

            3. Romus & SWFL Frank, adding Harper and/or Manny, a free agent TOR like Kikuchi or Corban better get us in the playoffs. But if not, I doubt they would blame Klentak after acquiring the most coveted talent available.

            4. 8mark…..not a matter of blame, just time to move on. Happens all the time.
              Plus he had four years to do what he needed to do with virtually all the pieces in place to do it.
              This year’s resurgence in the win column reflects that…though have to wonder where they may have been if they could hit, catch, run the bases or throw straight a little bit better.

            5. Romus, as the Phillies continue their slide what do you think of the following moves? First, replace Matt Klentak with Gabe Kapler as GM and put Rob Thomson the Bench Coach as Manager.

            6. philabalt…..Gabe as a GM would really be the talk of the town and definitely the baseball world.
              And I assume you mean after the season when to do these moves….not in the next three weeks.
              But as for Gabe as GM… I am not sure he wants that anyway….he does not seem like a guy who likes to sit in an office and take the the occasional visit to the field and sit up in the GM suite during games and silently ponder what is happening on the field.
              I would not choose him for that position.
              Thomson as manager makes sense to me…..I wanted Girardi anyway last winter, but Thomson would be a good choice having had some of Girardi’s baseball make-up rub off I am sure..

            7. Kapler can’t use the same line-up 2 days in a row. How in heck would he ever work as a gm? He would be adjusting his 40-man roster on a daily basis..

  34. Braves vs. the Mets and Marlins: 26-9. Phils 14-15! That sums it up best. 8mark, you and Wawa are both correct. Kingery needs to play 2B, Quinn needs to play CF, and the SP has not hurt us this year. I don’t like that we lost Lively for nothing. I think he has ability, and could have, at the very least, brought Int’l $ in a deal. Instead, they gave up some value for zero.

      1. as far as division winner candidates, its up there. san diego won in 2005 at 82-80. for division as a whole, saw an article that this years AL Central could be the worst ever. 2nd through 5th are a combined 114 games below .500. Cleveland is 19 over .500, but outside of their division they have a losing record.

    1. Yes, but the Phillies are in better position for a rebuild. The Phils can beat the good teams. Next year they will add and take care of the bottom feeders, plus we have an Ace with some on the way, Braves have some good pitchers coming, but we have the lead in that area, they have better hitting …. that is until we open daddy war bucks chest of FA

  35. The owner needs to empower the Front Office to not be afraid to move on from previous decisions. By that I mean deciding to hold onto Cesar and Doobie should not impact their decision making. If they don’t bring much, so be it. They need to get the most that they can without fearing they will lose their jobs. They need to move Santana so Rhys can move back to 1st. Those are as important as being able to spend big $.

  36. Examining the 40man roster as it is currently constructed, the following players should IMO be either traded or DFA’d, but in any case it’s time to move on….

    Drew Anderson- maybe get some intl money for him.
    Aaron Loup- not sure why we acquired him anyway.
    Yaksel Rios- ditto Anderson.
    Ranger Suarez- might be a nice complimentary piece in a trade package. Don’t see him as more than a #5/long reliever.
    Any one of either Velasquez, Pivetta or Eflin- if they haven’t “found out” what they are by now….??
    Andrew Knapp- useful bench guy for a 2nd division team especially since he’s been playing multiple positions now.
    Pedro Florimon- it’s just time to move on. Dime a dozen.
    Cesar Hernandez- if Kingery is the future 2b, why should he be here come spring?
    Carlos Santana- no, they won’t give him away but Hoskins must be next year’s 1b. So….??
    Mitch Walding- actually, I didn’t know he was still on the 40 man.
    Joey Bats- no explanation necessary, right.
    Odubel Herrera- well worn on this sight. Redeem his considerable value and team friendly contract for whatever it’s worth.
    Maikel Franco- injured wrist or not, he might get us a nice return. (Someone suggested Hedges from SD?)

    That’s 13-15 spots to add some new and better blood for 2019.

    1. 8mark…I agree with most all your moves sans one.
      Franco……I think he has a place at third, especially since Manny will probably wear pinstripes come December.

  37. Hinkie, I know you think that Machado coming here is a fait accompli, and I hope you are correct. But, if he does, I think he wants to play SS, and he will go to the team that lets him, as long as the $ is comparable. So, do we then trade Franco and play JP at 3B? or keep Franco and JP as an extra player? How do you feel about the composition of the rest of the starting position players?

    1. Matt, I think the ss/3b issue with Manny is overplayed. It’s universally known that he wants to play with the Bombers. How much money it’ll take to pry him away from his idealogy is the real question. The Phillies have the money, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they got him, but I don’t think it’s likely. We agree there, but not as to why.

  38. It was mentioned earlier that is seems the Dodgers like to take guys as reclamation projects and turn them into productive MLB players…..Muncy, Turner, Taylor et al.
    If he not added to the Phillies 40 soon….I can the Dodgers taking on Joey Meneses as a Dodger reclamation project.
    ….and he is of Mexican descent, so that only makes it more attractive for their fan base.

  39. I am not giving up on Klentak, This is a huge off season for him, though, and I expect a Playoff team. But, I would not replace him with Kapler, that is for certain. I hope Kapler makes it as a Manager, but he does not seem to be a GM type at all.

  40. From the Keith Law chat yesterday:

    Moe Mentum:
    Can you still envision Scott Kingery and JP Crawford as the Phillies’ middle infielders for the next decade? Or do we need to reset expectations based on 2018’s struggles for each?
    Keith Law:
    Kingery yes. Crawford has to prove himself again to the coaching staff – he has more ability than most players on the team, but isn’t putting in the same kind of effort.

  41. Romus, that is the first I have heard any allusion to JP not putting in the effort. Not that I take Klaw as gospel, but has anyone else heard anything like that? I also find it interesting that, Nationally, Machado seems penciled in to the Yankees, and Harper here. Although, I side with Hinkie, and he promised Machado, so we just have to take both MM and Bryce!

    1. The speculation has come to the point that if the Phillies fail to obtain either Manny or Bryce, the off season will be deemed an utter failure. Not that that should be the final standard of success but hey, it’s so out there now in our collective consciousness, we expect to have at least one of them. The real success will be determined by whether Klentak can realign this roster so that all the pieces fit for once. That means three reliable SPs, and defense that doesn’t force us to watch the game with one eye closed while we wince in anxiety.

    2. matt13….JPC….just one time did Dusty sit him down….early 2017 (maybe May) when he was slumping badly at the plate and lacked the hustle on a pop-up.

      8mark…..not getting one of MM or BH…then huge failure from the fanbase’s perspective…after over a year of build up. And agree….GM needs to realign this team….just too excess of average to a little above average players.

  42. This off season has been highly touted by everyone following Baseball, and we, coming off so many bad seasons, have had it in our sites for a while. I don’y think Kershaw was ever leaving the Dodgers, so the “great class” comes down to Harper and Machado. After them, I put Corbin and Kimbrel. But,failing to address our needs through FA, really makes constructing a Playoff team very difficult. Cesar and Doobie, while I agree should be moved, will not really bring back team changing talent. Nola is untouchable as is Rhys. So, failing to land Machado or Harper, or both, leaves the bulls eye right on Mr. Klentak

    1. Being that we don’t have blue chip talent in the system, Klentak will have to deal primarily in the free agent market. Acquiring a worthwhile TOR (like Snell, for example) would require stripping our dairy of the cream. Hopefully he can move the non-future commodities from the 40man roster for complimentary pieces, but unlikely for top tier players.

  43. Kap at it again tonight, vs lefty Matz:
    Santana 1b
    Hoskins lf
    Altherr cf
    Bautista rf
    Cabrera 3b
    Cesar 2b
    Kingery ss
    Alfaro c
    Nola p

    1. Roman Quinn is a little banged up after hitting a ball off his foot which is why he’s not in the lineup tonight. He’s available off the bench to hit or run.

      — Meghan Montemurro (@M_Montemurro)

  44. Altherr over Quinn!
    ….both can go right handed vs Matz
    And Quinn could cause pain for Matz if he gets on first or second.
    Not getting it.

  45. Franco:
    Maikel Franco is feeling better. He hit off a tee and took soft toss today, plans to take BP tomorrow. The MRI was clear. It’s a bone bruise. Kapler says he’s available off the bench tonight.

    — Meghan Montemurro (@M_Montemurro) September 7, 2018

  46. I count myself among those bipolar Phillies fans. In the wake of an important win last night coupled with the Braves losing in Arizona, I’m going to boldly predict the playoff seeds with 3 weeks remaining:

    NL EAST Phillies (2) surging ahead with veteran bats.
    NL CENTRAL Cubs (1)
    NL WEST Dodgers (3) eeking out on final weekend.
    1st WC Cardinals
    2nd WC Brewers – both WC teams will have better records than both PHI and LAD.

    AL is pretty much locked in as is.

  47. Poor Roman….now a foot issue.
    All those past soft tissue injuries…which required extensive healing time in the past.
    However, perhaps this latest bone injury, is just a bruise.

      1. Available?????
        With a small fracture, no less!.
        I am sure the manager is aware of Roman’s past injury record,

  48. Earlier in this thread, I posted … “Wild prediction: Someone will throw a no-hitter for the Phillies this month.”
    I meant to say, someone will throw a no-hitter in the Phillies organization this month. 🙂

  49. Herrera is expendable now, with the emergence of Quinn. Now, I know he may get hurt, but you can plug in Nick Williams or Altherr when hurt. This foot Is because of a wild pitch. I’d say get him some preventative protective gear (bubble wrap) and roll the dice with those to for the duration of the rebuild… or at least until Moniak, hasley or C emerge as a replacement. Herrera is a nice piece, and you take the good with the bad, but I just don’t trust him in a playoff race. Plenty of examples exist, on both sides but I’d replace him with Quinn.

  50. My last word on the sibject. There were approximately 56 games from August 1st to the end of the year. So about 11 starts per SP in a 5 man Rotation. 22 starts for 4/5, that could have been split 3 ways, plenty of starts for each, VV, Pivetta, Eflin. If 1 pitches great, he gets more, someone pitches lousy, he gets less. Still plenty of opportunities to see what is there, meanwhile Happ/Hamels makes the #3 so much better. Mistake by the FO, and I hope, a lesson going forward.

    1. matt13…cannot prove it, but me thinks the manager is the deciding factorin calling the shots on moves…not the GM.

      1. The Phillies could have traded for Hamels and Happ very easily and not damaged the farm system. It was clear that Eflin, Pivetta and Vasquez were tiring yet they did nothing so whoever shot these deals down should be let go.

        1. Phila – Yes, the bottom three starters are tiring, but they have to learn how to pitch through it. It’s called experience. Nola is probably tiring too.

  51. Phillies are catching 2 huge breaks – deGrom scratched today due to weather, and they will miss Mad Max this week vs Nats. Now, can they capitalize?

    1. Hopefully we can finally move on from the law firm of Pivetta, Velasquez and Eflin. Let’s go find/develop some mid-rotation arms who don’t regularly lose a game just from one inning’s collapse or pitch counts nearing 25 per inning.

      1. The Three Musketeers….VV/Piv/Eflin were a tale of two halves….collectively, April, May and June they were exceptional……the second half, the Tree Mouseketeers
        Their ages may dictate some inexperience, so it will be of interest what the Phillies will do with them next season.

  52. I think they are done. I think they will end the season right around .500 +/-. They exhibit very little energy in there play and don’t show much excitement about being in a pennant race. They look tired to me.

    Poor team defense, poor situational hitting and failure to score with runners in scoring position are areas that need to be addressed.

    I agree with the assement of the 3 Musketeers. The FO needs to salt this team with some regulars that have some fire and I generally agree with the group on the areas of need.

  53. Poor team defense is no doubt the result of shifting everybody all over the field. I like Santana and I think that he was a good addition to the offense. However. that was negated by the fact that his presence put Rhys in LF.
    I believe that the Phillies will sign, or trade for a solid #2 pitcher, keep Pivetta and Velasquez and Eflin will be gone.
    Going into the year the Phillies plan was to evaluate the players, and decide which ones to keep. Avilan, Knapp, Cabrera, Florimon, Walding, Bautista, and Loup are definitely gone. That opens 7 spots on the 40 man. On the bubble are Eflin, Santana, Altherr. Cozens, Herrera, and Hernandez. Three or four of those players will be gone. This gives Klentak plenty of flexibility to add as many players as he wants.
    If they move Santana, they keep Bour. If they sign Harper, Herrera is gone, and if they sign Machado, they can sell high on Franco.
    The only possible position players who may go North with the Phillies are Altherr, or Cozens. As for pitchers, De Los Santos and Irvin will be the first callups

  54. Personal feelings aside, it would benefit the Phillies greatly if the NL adopted the designated hitter this winter. They would be able to keep Bour, Santana, and Hoskins with two starting every day. Have they had votes at previous winter meetings? Do they just need a majority? Which teams are blocking it?
    Right up front, I hate it, but in the interest of both leagues playing the same game, with the same rules, I surrender.

  55. I’ve been saying for two years that VV is a short reliever. He can rarely get past the 5th inning, shouldn’t his future role be obvious? I’m not sure about the future of Pivetta or Eflin. They’ve shown ability in the past but just not consistently. I can see the phils signing or trading for a legit #2/3 and letting Pivetta, Eflin, DeLos Santos, Suarez, and Irvin fight for two spots with Vinnie in the pen. This season has to serve to help plan the future. Santana has to be traded, with money, to open up 1b for Hoskins. The defense with him in LF can’t continue. As for the 40, there are lots of minor leaguers who will need decisions. Several spots will open up (Batista, Cabrera, Ramos, Bour, Florimon, Walding, and Loup plus Santana and Hernandez traded).

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