The playoffs are further along, and I still don’t care. However, the Washington Nationals saw their window of opportunity close a little more with another early exit from the playoffs.
The Nationals had finished 4th (once) and 5th (5 times) in their first six years after moving from Montreal. After the 2010 season, they signed Jayson Werth away from the Phillies to a 7-year, $126M contract, about $50M more than the Phillies reportedly offered. Except for a deferral of $10M from 2016 to 2018 to lower their AAV, the contractual relatinship between the Nationals and Werth ended with their most recent playoff loss. The Nationals were a competitive team for the length of Werth’s contract.
- 2011 Washington Nationals 80-81 .497 21.5 GB
- 2012 z-Washington Nationals 98-64 .605 – Lost LDS (3-2)
- 2013 Washington Nationals 86-76 .531 10.0 GB
- 2014 z-Washington Nationals 96-66 .593 – Lost LDS (3-2)
- 2015 Washington Nationals 83-79 .512 7.0 GB
- 2016 y-Washington Nationals 95-67 .586 – Lost LDS (3-1)
- 2017 y-Washington Nationals 97-65 .599 – Lost LDS (3-2)
- y – clinched division
- z – clinched division and best record in league
The Nationals had a 635-498 regular season record, 4 division titles, and zero playoff series wins during Werth’s tenure. As an individual, he provided less yearly production than he did in his 4 years with the Phillies.
- PHIL – 543 G, 320 R, 507 H, 95 HR, 300 RBI, 60 SB, .282/.380/.506/.885, 15.7 WAR
- WAS – 808 G, 450 R, 781 H, 109 HR, 393 RBI, 55 SB, .263/.355/.433/.788, 8.9 WAR
I have always liked Werth, even after he signed with Washington. I certainly appreciate his contributions to the Phillies playoff runs in 2007-2010. But let his post-Phillies production serve as a reminder that we shouldn’t pay for past performance. Their window slams shut after the 2018 season when Bryce Harper, Dan Murphy, and Gio Gonzalez become free agents. Hopefully, I can still enjoy the Nationals continued playoff failures.
Organizational News and Changes
The Phillies interviewed three internal candidates for manager – Juan Samuel, Dusty Wathan, and Jorge Velandia.
Larry Bowa was hired as a senior adviser to GM Matt Klentak.
Indians pitching coach Mickey Callaway has surfaced as a candidate for the manager’s position.
Since the Phillies’ managerial move has triggered expectations that the Phillies may compete sooner than expected, Todd Zolecki suggested possible solutions to obvious areas that the Phillies have a need in an article –
- SP – Alex Cobb, Lance Lynn, Jhoulys Chacin
- RP – Juan Nicasio, Steve Cishek, Pat Neshek
- Veterans – OF Jayson Werth, 2B Chase Utley, C A.J. Ellis.
I haven’t decided how or if I will cover the Winter Leagues. Winter ball stats are available here, but do not include all winter leagues – Colombia and Nicaragua are not included. Puerto Rico’s season was cancelled. Teams were left scrambling to find spots for players. I heard that Aaron Brown, who lost his PR assignment, is first alternate for the AFL. I have also heard that some young players have turned down assignments to countries like Colombia and Venezuela. I wonder if this would affect the players in season promotions next season.
Teams are beginning to release their tentative spring training schedules. So far, the Phillies haven’t. But the Tigers, A’s, Astros, Nationals, and Orioles have. And some of them play in Florida.
The Tigers begin against Florida Southern on February 22nd and host the Phillies at Joker Marchant Stadium on Friday, March 16th and Saturday, March 24th.
The Astros and Nationals open against each other on February 23rd, but neither hosts the Phillies this spring.
The Orioles also open on February 23rd, and host the Phillies at Ed Smith Stadium on Sunday, March 11th at 6:00PM.
And, of course, the A’s are in Arizona.
The results of all polls have been released. I’ll publish an article on the top prospect polls that were mailed to me this week.
Key Dates (new entries are in bold/italic text):
- October 24th – World Series begins.
Oct. 26, 2017 – Rawlings Gold Glove finalists announced on Twitter (12 p.m. ET)
- The day after the last game of the World Series, 9:00 AM – “Following the completion of the term of his Uniform Player’s Contract, any Player with 6 or more years of Major League service who has not executed a contract for the next succeeding season shall become a free agent.” Organizations began an exclusive five-day negotiation window (referred to as “the quiet period” in the CBA) with their own free agents. During “the quiet period” any Club representative and any free agent or his representative may talk with each other and discuss the merits of the free agent contracting, when eligible; provided that the Club and the free agent shall not negotiate terms or contract with each other. The following subjects are among those which may properly be discussed between any Club and such Player:
- (i) the Player’s interest in playing for the Club, and the Club’s interest in having the Player play for it;
- (ii) the Club’s plans about how it intends to utilize the Player’s services (as a starting pitcher or reliever, as a designated hitter or not, platooning, etc.);
- (iii) the advantages and disadvantages of playing for the Club including the nature of the organization, the climate of the city, availability of suitable housing, etc.;
- (iv) length of contract;
- (v) guarantee provisions; and
- (vi) no-trade or limited no-trade provisions.
- Notwithstanding the foregoing, the free agent and his former Club may engage in negotiations and enter into a contract during “the quiet period”.
- The fifth day after the last game of the World Series, 5:00 PM – Deadline for organizations to submit qualifying offers to their free agents. Last year’s QO was $17.2M.
- This is also the deadline for organizations to exercise any club/mutual options.
- October 15 or on the fifth day following the last day of the World Series, 5:00 PM Eastern Time, whichever is later (MLR 55(a)) – a player whose Minor League Uniform Player Contract expires becomes a Minor League free agent unless the player’s Major or Minor League Club has remaining options to renew the contract. As a Minor League free agent, the player may negotiate and enter into a contract with any Major or Minor League Club beginning on the first day that year that a Major League free agent is eligible to sign with a different Major League Club upon expiration of the player’s Major League contract (usually, the fifth day after the conclusion of the World Series. I guess the inclusion of an October 15th date is for a year when a World Series might not be held – strike, natural disaster, terrorism?).
- The fifth day after the last game of the World Series – Free agents become eligible to sign with any team.
Nov. 6, 2017 – BBWAA Awards Finalists announced (MLB Network)
Nov .7, 2017 – Rawlings Gold Glove Awards (ESPN, 9 p.m. ET)
Nov. 9, 2017 – Louisville Silver Sluggers (MLB Network, 6 p.m. ET)
Nov. 10, 2017 – Wilson Defensive Players of the Year (MLB Network, 6 p.m. ET)
- Tenth day after the end of “the quiet period”, 5:00 PM – Deadline for players to accept/reject qualifying offers. Those who decline will become free agents.
- November 13-16 – GM meetings in Orlando.
Nov. 13, 2017 – Rookies of the Year announced (MLB Network, 6 p.m. ET)
Nov. 14, 2017 – Managers of the Year announced (MLB Network, 6 p.m. ET)
Nov. 15, 2017 – Cy Young Awards announced (MLB Network, 6 p.m. ET)
Nov. 16, 2017 – Most Valuable Players announced (MLB Network, 6 p.m. ET)
Nov. 17, 2017 – Esurance MLB Awards (MLB Network)
- November 20th – Deadline for roster expansion to 40 players prior to the Rule 5 draft.
- December 2, 8:00 PM EST – Deadline for teams to tender contracts to unsigned players on their 40-man rosters, including arbitration-eligible players. Non-tendered players become free agents. Tendered players who are arbitration eligible who do not accept the tender proceed to the arbitration process in February.
- December 10-14 – Winter Meetings at the Walt Disney World Swan and Dolphin Resort in Orlando, Florida.
- December 14th – Rule 5 draft.
- January 9, 2018 – Salary arbitration filing deadline
- January 12, 2018 – Salary arbitration figures exchanged
- January 29 – February 16, 2018 – Salary arbitration hearings, Phoenix, Arizona
- February 14, 2018 – earliest date for pitchers/catchers to report to Spring Training
- February 19, 2018 – earliest date for all other players to report for full squad workouts
- February 22, 2018 – Tentative date for the start of Grapefruit League games
- March 29, 2018 – Opening Day for the 2018 season
April 15, 2018 – Jackie Robinson Day
April 17-18, 2018 – Twins v. Indians at Hiram Bithorn Stadium in San Juan, PR
May 13, 2018 – Mother’s Day events, all host ballparks
- June 4-6, 2018 – 2018 MLB Draft
June 17, 2018 – Father’s Day events, all host ballparks
July 13-17, 2018 – All-Star Week
- July 17, 2018 – 89th All Star Game, at Nationals Park
- August 19, 2018 – Phillies v. Mets in the Little League Classic in Williamsport.
- December 10-13, 2018 – Winter Meetings in Las Vegas, Nevada
Last Week’s Transactions:
- The organization’s rosters are up to date.
- The organization’s injury list is as up to date as I can make it.
- The organization’s Rule 5 eligibility list is as accurate as I can make.
Here’s the open discussion thread for Phillies’ talk and other topics.
230 thoughts on “Open Discussion: Week of October 15th”
With the search for the next manager intensifying this week, I’m of the opinion that this decision will be as important as any made this off season. While I am impressed with both Wathan (who’s come up along with the young talent) and Velandia (who lacks dugout experience at the higher levels but is clearly Klentak’s right hand man), this looks to be a grab outside the organization. While I cringe at hearing there may have been upwards of 50 candidates on the original list (I’d like to think that the FO’s target zone is much tighter), the more prominently mentioned seem to come with a pedigree or have a strong rep throughout the industry – namely, Ausmus, DiSarcina and Callaway. My guess is one of them is ultimately hired as the skipper of the upturn Phillies.
On another front, I’m not against signing Werth as a bench player on a one year deal. He’s a enigmatic guy that turned sour upon his departure from Philly BUT whose more recent public comments indicate that he’s missed his time here. Though he’s a bit of a curmudgeon, he’s also regarded highly as a teammate.
I’m totally against bringing Werth back here.
First of all, he’s run his course as a player. The team can barely find at bats for its younger players and we don’t need a 38/39 year old guy grabbing their plate appearances, especially when he’s no longer very good.
Second, the Philadelphia fans hate him and with pretty good reason – he became a real jerk by the time he left and I don’t like the idea of him poisoning our younger players. Why would we want him around? He was a very good player for the last good run. Let’s leave him in our past and move on.
Agree with you catch…against bringing him back….in fact had heard talk that of the ’08 champs and induction to the Wall of Fame, there may be some concern on his reception at the time of the ceremony. Probably if they have him near the end and he has been out of mind and sight for awhile, the fan base will come to tolerate him more.
I’m a Philadelphia fan and I don’t hate Werth. World $#%kin Champion. I cheer for him every game, just like I do everyone else from the 2008 squad.
So speak for yourself when you say Philadelphia fans hate him.
Yeah, I can understand both views on Werth. It was a volatile period when Ruben decided (and rightly so) not to compete with the Nats who grossly overpaid him. Not sure if he just wanted a significantly higher offer to stay in Philly, but I recall a blurb when he texted Cliff Lee his sour grapes when the latter signed with that ‘mystery team’ we all know and love. IMO, Werth hated leaving Philly, like him or not. Me? I can forgive. Time is an especially soothing tonic to bitter roots. Would he be a good fit here and now? Perhaps not. But Larry Bowa knows a lot about stuffing one’s pride and coming back home if the door were to be open.
The Phils had a chance to sign Werth before he became a FA. They low balled him so badly that he fired his agent and hired Boras. It is a faulty premise that the contract with the Nats had to be matched. Rather, much less would have gotten it done. The rumors at the time were an offer of 3/$36 and he wanted 5/$75. The 7/$126 came out of left field and it should have never have come to that. Not signing him turned into a mistake. Dom Brown never panned out and they ended up having to trade for Hunter Pence. I cannot stand the Nats but I don’t get the bad feelings about Werth. All of us would have taken that contract. He wanted to stay here and was close with Lee and the text to him was complaining about not being brought back.
Werth played his best ball as a Philly and can appreciate his contributions to the WS championship.
In fact he almost sprayed me with beer on the parade route
However, he is the only player, and I say this without reservation, the only player from that team that gets booed when he comes back to town to play against the Phillies.
I have been at the games and it is not even a smattering of boos….but at times a full chorus worth.
And this has been 5 plus years after he left in 2011.
So there are a fairly large contingent of Phillies fans who still hold a grudge against him.
Do I agree with it….not really….let it go by now.
I do not ever boo him…nor do I cheer him.
He was the only player (if I’m not mistaken) that they let go to free agency. Jimmy, Chase, Chooch, Cole all were traded out…
Ruben signed him to only two years in Dec ’08…always wondered about that…why not three?…. at least let Dom Brown get one more year maturity in LHV. But then again Werth may have wanted the two ilo of the three year deal.
Victorino left via free agency right? To the BoSox?
Whoops, Vic was traded to LAD. My bad. I think there were some folks saying to sign him when he signed for 3 years with Boston AFTER the season he was traded to LAD ended.
Okay, fair enough – MOST Philadelphia fans hate him or so their incessant boos would have you believe.
I really don’t hate him I suppose and I’ll be okay when he comes back for alumni day but I’m done seeing him play for the Phillies.
I’m not pro-Werth reunion but I have nothing against him. I must have missed when he “became a real jerk” because it doesn’t ring a bell.
According to Nick Cafardo (and take this for what it’s worth – he seems to throw a lot of grandiose rumors out there), the Phils have their “sights set” on somehow getting Buck Showalter. It’s no secret he and the O’s GM Duquette aren’t sympatico but they’re both in the last year of their respective contracts. Interesting development if it even has any traction.
Cafardo is a Boston beat writer. He presents this like it’s news. Yet it has been speculated and discussed from the moment Pete was promoted. Maybe he just needed to fill out his quota of words for his column?
Forget his history with the Phillies and just focus on the player. He’s done. He’s 38, negative defender, and his total WAR from the last 3 years is -2. I would rather re-sign Ty Kelly.
Ausmus interviewed with Boston today but has pulled out of the running for the Mets job.
Which might mean he feels pretty good about his chances of landing the Boston or Philly job. IMO … Ausmus is #3 for the Red Sox. I believe Alex Cora and Ron Gardenhire are their top two candidates (don’t know what order). Therefore … Ausmus to the Phillies seems like a good bet (IMO).
I guess it will depend on how much Dombrowski will go to try to land him again.
The Tigers were his first gig at managing, and wondering if Dombrowski wants to hire him again….probably didn’t even need an interview he nows him so well..
‘knows’ vs ‘now’
I’m not opposed to the Phils bringing in a former Phillies player currently on the gnats for the bench, but it’s not Werth- it’s Howie Kendrick.
I’d be fine with adding Cobb or Lynn as long as the org also acquires a young starter via trade, using Cesar and a few prospects. Velazquez (who I think a lot of us are sleeping on), Eickhoff, Pivetta et. al. can compete for the two remaining rotation jobs. I still think the Phils should go after Darvish or Arrieta despite the cost prohibitions due to immense payroll flexibility, but no matter what, the holes in the rotation must be fixed this offseason. There is too much potential in this lineup to not try to go out there and compete for a Wild Card in 2018.
I cringe at the thought of signing Arrieta. He is already on the down side of his career since reaching his high point in 2015. His ERA rose each of the past 2 years. Most of his measurable peripherals are moving in the wrong direction. I dread his 23 HR (2017) in CBP next year, his league leading WP the past two years with our young catching corps, and his inability to hold runners on base (exemplified by his 17% caught stealing, well below the league average of 27%). 2018 will be Arrieta’s age 32 season. He seems to represent what MacPhail wants to avoid – “signing a player for past performance”. Arrieta made $15.6M in 2017. I would have reservations committing to even a 3-year, $50M contract.
Absolutely with you on this one. He’s a guy who kind of came out of nowhere to become a star and I expect he will fade quickly…
Speaking of Winter Leagues: The top 5 OPS leaders for the Phils Org. are: Brito, Gomez, Perkins, Z. Green and Cabral. Brito is on fire in his 16 ABs with 8 hits including a triple. He has 4 RBIs which leads all Phils. Walding has 6 BBs in 5 games and Tromp has 5 in 5 games. Tromp has the most Ks with 7 in 19 ABs. Green, Walding and Wilson Garcia have 1 HR each. Roman Quinn is 2 for 9 with a double on his stat sheet. He also has 3 Ks and no BBs.
On the pitching side, Hammer, Cleavinger and Bettencourt have given up a combined 1 hit in 4 1/3 innings with 1 K and 1 BB. Elniery Garcia gave up 2 runs in his 3 IP. He gave up 4 hits but had 3 Ks.
It’s hard not to be a little intrigued by Walding. It looks like the power and plate discipline gains may be real (and he is showing plus in both areas) and he’s always been a great fielder. If he could just hit about .240-.250 in the majors (wishful think, I know), the other tools might play up enough to make him a very useful player. He’s on the older side as a prospect, but not too old yet if he can get traction in AAA. He’s definitely a guy worth keeping around.
I’m just as interested in seeing how Zach Green does after a few injury plagued years. A year younger than Walding, and a good hitter.
Walding’s fielding makes a point about minor league development. He was not a good fielder at 3B in his first year. He was a converted SS at Williamsport playing next to Roman Quinn at short, who was a converted OF then. Walding fielded most balls hit right at him, but booted a few, and basically let Roman Quinn go after balls that he should have been on. BUT, he learned, and is now a decent fielder.
MLB needs to find other places for winter ball. Can’t blame any of the players who turned down Colombia or Venezuela, where they’re in danger of being kidnapped or shot. Teams are very wary of possible injury scenarios, like playing in the WBC. How about possible death scenarios?
Colombia is a very safe, pro Western environment. It has been that way for the past 10-15 years. Probably the next big Latin American market that will start to produce a significant pipeline of talent. Narcos was a very long time ago and is not representative of the country today.
Agree Colombia is safer than the Ven.
Mexico has winter ball, along with Panama I believe.
The Aussies use to have it open to MLB prospects , closed it up but npw not sure if they have re-opened it yet..
Didn’t Cozens play in Australia just a few years ago?
Yes …him and also Cord Sandberg and Hoskins.
Romus you are so intelligent. you know all of this info.
Remember how intelligent George Costanza got when he didn’t have sex?
And how it worked in reverse for Elaine. I’m hoping to become stupid soon.
Australia closed their doors to American players last season in preparation for the WBC. It appears they want to use their summer league to continue to develop their own players.
You going the Elaine route Romus? 🙂
I agree. always wondered why southern FL and AZ weren’t hosting a league each. Stadiums are empty and weather is good…
Another voice (George Stockburger of That Ball’s Outta Here) heard in the call to deal Cesar Hernandez to the Angels. https://thatballsouttahere.com/2017/10/16/phillies-trade-rumor-cesar-hernandez-interest-angels/
I’ve been saying a CeHe for Tyler Skaggs and a prospect(s) (maybe 19 YO OF Brandon Marsh and 18 YO RHP Jose Soriano) could happen. Stockburger aims for a bigger arm. He suggests CeHe for Garrett Richards and 21 YO RHP prospect Jaime Barria). While I don’t agree with the prospect (Barria would have to immediately be added to the 40-man), a Skaggs vs Richards debate is interesting.
First, the similarities: both pitchers were first round draft picks, and highly ranked prospects early in their careers. However, each guy has seen their star dim a bit because of multiple arm injuries. Richards has only thrown 62 IP over the past two seasons. Skaggs has logged 135 IP over that same span. The positive news is both men were healthy and pitching to close out the 2017 season.
The differences: Skaggs is LH, Richards is RH. Skaggs (26) is three years younger than Richards (29). Skaggs is also under team control through arbitration for three more years. Richards goes through arbitration just once more, and then joins next season’s historic FA class. Skaggs is a “big arm”. Even after an elbow tear and an irritated nerve in his bicep, Richards (96 MPH avg FB) still ranked as the 12th hardest thrower in MLB this season. Skaggs has never fully regained his velo after TJ in 2014. He throws lower 90’s, but his CB is still a plus pitch.
I believe the Angels make a prime CeHe trade partner. Matt Klentak is the perfect GM to make a decision on who to demand in a trade with LA. He should be very familiar with Richards, Skaggs, and most of the other players there. Richards has TOR potential, but with only one year of team control, I’d probably prefer Skaggs (and prospects) because he’s LH and comes with three years of team control. The Phillies could always target Richards as a FA next offseason if he proves he’s healthy in 2018.
I think they could aim higher than these deals. Toronto has holes in the OF and at 2B. Why not package CeHe with an OF prospect (Haseley?) for Marcus Stroman? He’s younger and has a better body of work than both Skaggs or Richards. He’d also be under team control (Arbitration years, but still) for three years.
I would be shocked in Toronto trades Stroman. He is an actual TOR under team control for a team hoping for one more playoff run.
Also Toronto has Devon Travis who seems similar to Cesar. I could see Toronto wanting a SS/2B type for when Tulo goes on DL. Galvis might interest them but only for a small piece.
Hinkie….I like the fact that Skaggs would make an ideal target in that trade…and also March , who looks to be a possible future Bellinger type player and I would lean myself more to Joey Gatto vs Soriano.
Skaggs’ CB when I saw him in September vs the Astros was outstanding. Phillies need a LHP in their rotation IMO.
Romus … I was a big Joey Gatto fan when he was coming out of HS. He played at St. Augstine Prep (near me in SJ). However, he has not been good since being drafted. Has a rough time throwing strikes. Eric Longenhagen has been pretty high on Soriano for a year now. Klentak was in Anaheim when the Angels drafted Gatto so he should have a good idea if he’s worth taking a flyer on.
Gatto’s metrics have not shown well. He does have talent. He just cannot throw strikes with any consistency. This year however he has tended upward and maybe he matured and turned things around.
Soriano…..realistically, he may not be obtainable, if Skaggs or Richards is also involed. Plus he is rated higher than Gatto.
There’s zero chance Cesar Hernandez gets you Stroman or Garrett Richards.
Like idea of Skaggs and might actually be reasonable. I think Phillies may need to include Lively in any deal for Major League starter, at least to fill that spot on their team.
If Garret Richards ever gets healthy he will be a top notch pitcher but he gets hurt often. Would prefer someone who is more durable.
The Braves scandal could be reaching new heights. http://www.macon.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/bill-shanks/article178936141.html
From the Macon, Ga. Telegraph:
* at least two scouts claim John Hart (President of Baseball Operations) knew exactly what former GM John Coppolella was up to.
* several baseball people were amazed to find out the Braves offered Coppolella a financial buyout and severance after they fired him for the violations being investigated. Coppolella turned it down and has hired an attorney. He may sue.
* Sources claim that Major League Baseball continues to be surprised at how many potential violations are being discovered. Numerous calls, from agents, scouts and other teams, have been made to the Major League Baseball office with additional allegations since the news broke of the investigation.
I think baseball will struggle to decide how to penalize this situation. It’s so over the top in size and scope with every additional new piece of information..
A major fine is a certainty (Atlanta won’t care about that). After that, things get interesting. IMO, there’s a pretty good chance they lose Kevin Maitan, Abraham Gutierrez, and maybe a few other J2 kids from the 2016 and 2017 classes. They’ll probably also face a couple more years of J2 restrictions. Also, if MLB can prove the Braves bought Drew Waters a car and other gifts in exchange for a smaller signing bonus, I could see Atlanta being stripped of their 2018 second round draft pick. Finally, to really make a point, MLB can order Freddie Freeman to wash Rob Manfred’s car once a week ! ☺
BA has handed out it’s draft grades. http://www.baseballamerica.com/draft/2017-mlb-draft-grades-philadelphia-phillies/#RW3UsCJY26j2jLjq.97. If anyone has a subscription, maybe you can share the Phillies grade.
I should probably abbreviate some of this as this content is by subscription…
Best Pure Hitter: OF Adam Haseley (1)
Best Power Hitter: Haseley has above-average power. Righthanded-hitting 1B/OF Austin Listi (17)
Fastest Runner: Haseley Has a slight edge on SS Jake Holmes (11).
Best Defensive Player: SS Dalton Guthrie (6)
Best Athlete: Holmes likely will outgrow shortstop.
Best Fastball: RHP Spencer Howard (2)
Best Secondary Pitch: RHP Connor Seabold (3) change up
Best Pro Debut: LHP Jhordany Mezquita (8); RHP Connor Brogdon (10)
Most Intriguing Background: Mezquita; Guthrie; SS/2B Nick Maton (7)
Closest To The Majors: Haseley could beat 2016 No. 1 pick Mickey Moniak to Philadelphia.
Best Late-Round Pick: LHP Damon Jones (18)
The One Who Got Away: LHP Shane Drohan (23)
Thank you, BigPhan. I found Best Late Round Pick (18th rounder Damon Jones) interesting. Not sure how late they were considering, but Almarez drafted a slew of LHP on day three. I love Jacob Hernandez (21). I also like David Parkinson (12) and Zach Warren (14).
I am a little puzzled….BA ‘Best Power Hitter’ …Austin Listi??????
Whereas Darick Hall was near the top of all hitters in the SALLY in SLG.
Romus … BA was grading the Phillies 2017 draft. That would be a real head-scratcher if they found Listi to be the top power hitter in the entire system.
Ok Hinkie…did not realize that.
Aumus has taken his name out of consideration for the Mets” job. Cora the favorite, or so say some reports, to Bosox, I wonder what Klentak’s list of favorites looks like?
If Callaway is hired, I would think the bench coach would have to be strong in forming the everyday lineup/handling position players since Callaway’s forte is developing arms.
The persistent rumors regarding Showalter tells me MacPhail may be keeping that bug in Klentak’s ear. Otherwise, Buck doesn’t fit the profile that’s been put out.
Having not heard squat about Ausmus other than mere conjecture, I’m not sure what to think of whether he’d be high on Klentak’s list. It’s possible they’ve gotten word that Boston is a mutually desired destination for him.
I LOVE that they are considering a great coach as the manager. My view on this site is that the next big frontier in baseball development is elite coaching.
When I was a kid I always used to wonder why college football coaches weren’t paid more money since they more than anything determined the success of a college football team. But sooner or later people figured this out and coaches began to receive the ridiculous money they actually deserved.
In baseball, I don’t think elite coaches are as sought after or valued as much as they should be. Guys like Callaway are worth their weight in gold and, arguably, worth more than many players. So let’s start getting the best coaches to Philly – it’s one way to get an edge on the competition.
I agree, Catch.
It appears the Phillies will get their choice of the following, in order of my personal preference:
Mickey Callaway – his profile as a pitching guru AND “manager material” may fit what this club needs, plus he’s “on everybody’s list”.
Gary DiSarcina – his experience as a bench coach and league wide reputation, along with his relationship to Klentak.
Brad Ausmus – simply his availability, he pulled out of running for the Mets job (he gets major points for that). I don’t place much credence in the Dartmouth connection, but his departure from Detroit had more to do with the Tigers’ FO instability than any shortcomings of his.
An additional thought on the merits of hiring a guy like Callaway – if you’re in need of a top notch pitching coach, most of which are unavailable of course – YOU HIRE HIM AS YOUR NEW MANAGER!
Kyle Downing of MLB Trade Rumors runs down some options for the Phillies this offseason. https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/10/offseason-outlook-philadelphia-phillies-8.html
IMO, the most important thing MacKlentak can do this winter is to sign young, core players to team friendly extensions just like they did with Odubel Hererra last year. Aaron Nola, Jerad Eickhoff, Aaron Altherr, and even Rhys Hoskins should/could be offered these type of deals. The other things that should be near the top of MacKlentak’s list is to trade Cesar Hernandez for a pitcher (preferably LH), and use their payroll flexibility to acquire other young players/prospects/comp draft picks.
My favorite line from this story: “Another option would be to make a big push for the coveted Shohei Otani. Indeed there are 29 other teams that will be doing the same, but the potential to join an organization with such a bright future could be a draw for the Japanese phenom.” LET’S HOPE !!!
This off season is huge for MacKlentak. That can’t be overstated. Next off season will be a no brainer what with all the FA talent available and cash to be spent. Hire the right manager, acquire 2 SPs, maximize the value of the organization’s depth and spend wisely. 2018 should be the year that CBP becomes a desired destination, and not because of the latest upgrades.
….and winning the Otani lottery would be the icing on that cake.
Oh, and Hinkie – I sent Klentak your trade proposal. Seriously.
….referring to the Marlins salary dump/Yelich for Williams.
HaHa … 8mark … did you also mention Iron Chef Morimoto, sushi bars, Charlie Manuel and Shohei Otani ??? As a matter of fact, ask Matt Klentak to check in with this site on a daily basis. I (and many other posters) have plenty of other suggestions that we’d like to see him implement. ☺
No I didn’t make recommendations on Otani. Here’s his address: One Citizens Bank Way, Phila, PA 19148
…go for it, Hinkie!
The question is – who would you sign?
I would consider signing Cesar (even you trade him later in the year – it will enhance his trade value), Nola, and Altherr. I think the team is going to need to wait a little on everyone else, including Hoskins. I wouldn’t sign Eickhoff because his velocity is so iffy it’s unclear to me whether he’s going to be anything more than a 4 or a 5. If he recovers and does well next season I might sign him to an extension mid-year. I might consider signing Neris long term if the price is right – at worst he’s going to be a solid set-up guy long term, but if he puts it altogether he’s a pretty dominant pitcher. All the pitches are already there (including, IMO, the best splitter in the majors), he just needs consistency.
If Klentak fails to trade Cesar this December, then yes to an extension for him, too. However, I’m not sure it will be easy to get a team friendly deal with him because he’s already into his arbitration years. He’s no longer making the league minimum. MLB Trade Rumors projects 4+million dollars for CeHe next season. Those team friendly deals usually get done with players before they’re eligible for arbitration (especially for position players). The earlier they are signed, the more team friendly the contract usually is. Nola, Eickhoff, and Altherr all have one more year to go before they reach arbitration. As far as Eickhoff goes, I see him more as the reliable, workhorse, MOR SP he was his first two seasons (BTW … that makes for a valuable pitcher). I think he was hampered by nagging injuries (nothing serious) this season. They shut him down a little early to rest him like they did with Nola last year. I believe Eickhoff has a nice rebound season in 2018.
I like Eickhoff, but his velocity is iffy as it is. No way I sign him for more than a couple of years or so.
Why not just sign him for four years and tack on a couple of team options for the fifth and sixth years.
year 1 (pre arb) … 1.5 million
year 2 (arb 1) …… 3 million
year 3 (arb 2) …… 4.5 million
year 4 (arb 3) …… 6 million
year 5 (FA) ………. 8 mllion team option/ 1 mil buyout
year 6 (FA) ………. 10 million team option/ 1 mil buyout
This would guarantee Eickhoff 16 million dollars. He was a 15th round draft pick so he probably only got 100 thousand dollars (max) to sign. That guaranteed 16 million dollars (and the chance to earn 34 million) might well be enough for him to forego free agency until his age 32 season. It protects Eickhoff from injury, and the 16 million dollar investment gives the Phillies cost certainty, a possible bargain on a MOR starter, and a more valuable trade chip.
I like Eickhoff, but I don’t trust his velocity and health that much to even do that deal. I’d prefer to give that deal to Velasquez because, worst case scenario, he becomes a reliever and probably earns that money in the pen.
@hinkie – although I don’t see Eickhoff as a key player in the next contending Phillies team, a $16M guarantee for 4 yrs (and up $32-$35M in 6 years) is a good value for a MOR or even as a back end starter. The Phils have been absorbing dead money for a while now so a deal like you proposed is not a bad one.
I don’t see a high ceiling for Eickhoff but his physical attributes (ave stuff across the board, durable) can be valuable to any team either as a trade asset or a complimentary piece.
Elniery Garcia was very good in his second AFL start, yesterday … 4 IP, 0 R, 1 H, 1 BB, 5 K.
Garcia is probably another guy who could be included in a trade this winter rather than adding him to the 40-man roster or exposing him to the rule 5 draft.
Hinkie……IMO, he needs some stromg innings pitched to get his value up.
If he does well at Reading or LHV then that is a possibility come July.
BTW….think this writer for MLBTR forgot about Eflin….who could turn out better than most………”Behind Nola, however, likely follows a messy group of struggling youngsters. Ben Lively, Mark Leiter, Jerad Eickhoff, Vince Velasquez, Jake Thompson and Nick Pivetta all endured major ups and downs last season.”
MLTBR is a joke. They act like Leiter stinks. He was rather solid.
They could have only been basing a lot of their reasoning on his 11 game starts that went for a total of 61 innings, which is not bad, but not great…
Two were outstanding, four were real clunkers and the other five were about average for a back end rotation guy.
He wasn’t a disaster but he cannot be confused with anything but a 4th or 5th.
What is the term for the level just above “stinks” ?
Seriously … Leiter is a long man out of the BP (at best).
He doesn’t stink – he just smells a little bit.
Seriously, he’s okay, just like Lively is okay. A bunch of these guys are okay or a little better, but most don’t have much upside – Leiter included.
Hinkie…one other thing….teams normally will not trade before November 20th.
That is the date the 40s are finalized….there is usually a 6/7 week window when .most trades/FA signings occur, starting at the winter meetings in December thru January.
Romus … the Astros are another team like the Phillies who have had a very deep system in recent years. I was pretty confident they did some 40 man shuffling through trades prior to having to set their roster. I just researched it:
2016 deadline was Nov 18th.
* Nov 4 … Astros trade Pat Neshak to Phillies for cash or PTBNL
* Nov 17 … Astros trade Albert Abreu (minors) and Jorge Guzman (minors) to the New York Yankees for Brian McCann. Abreau and Guzman weren’t eligible for the rule 5. However, this deal allowed the Yankees to clear a spot on their 40 man before the Nov 18 deadline.
2015 deadline was Nov 20.
* Nov 19 … Astros trade Jonathan Villar to the Milwaukee Brewers for Cy Sneed (minors)
So … you’re right, most deals are made after their 40 man needs to be set. However, teams can/do trade players prior to the deadline in order to manipulate their rosters. I’m looking for Klentak to deal at least one or two of their MLB/AAA pitchers (Thompson, Leiter, Appel, Lively, Taveras) who are being passed by younger prospects.
Kentak will need to be busy soon after the WS ends, since he may have only a few weeks to get things done before the 40 goes final.
Romus … where there’s a will, there’s a way !
@hinkie – Elniery Garcia is already in the 40-man. He needs to be DFAd and exposed to the waivers 1st. If any teams is interested with him, they will just claim him off waivers and option him to minors.
KuKo … you are correct. Garcia is already on the 40 man. He’s another guy you can add to the list of players I posted above (to Romus) who could get dealt prior to the Nov 20 deadline for setting their roster.
Has been on 40 man since Nov 2016.
For those in need of some assurance on Maikel Franco and what could be:
Thru their age24 seasons:
PAs –1838….slash .252/.300/.420….17%-K….6%-BB….64Hrs
PAs –1646…slash .247/.300/.426…..16%-K….7%-BB….63HRs
That is pretty remarkable Romus. He, I hope, is doing a lot of self reflection this off season, and I want to see him show plate adjustments in ST. I think everyone feels he gets another season to show improvement before they go to the FA market for a 3B. I’d like nothing more than to make it not necessary to go and get Machado.
I think watching JPC in September at third base for those few games, was a good motivator for him for the off-season.
I can see him coming to ST in March and breaking his ST HR record of eight he set in 2016. 🙂
Seriously, you are correct, 2018 could be a very deciding year for him as a Phillie in the future.
Steve Adams of MLBTR believes the Red Sox will hire Alex Cora as manager, and Detroit will hire Ron Gardenhire. (from the online chat posted this afternoon.)
He also said he thinks the Phillies will be in on discussions for Stanton, whether he approves the trade is another matter. He also thinks Freddy is as good as gone, whereas Cesar may stick around unless the right deal develops.
All of that sounds pretty accurate. I think Freddy will be traded and I think the way Mackanin used and overly valued Freddy is one of the reasons he is gone – they don’t want Crawford battling Freddy for playing time, but that’s just what would have happened if Mackanin had stuck around.
Jp still has to hit better then.230 with power . He has some time because he’s only 22. I would stick him in the 8 th hole until he proves he can hit. I’m not concerned about the defense. However if this team takes off and JP has probelms . I think MK will bring good bench vet in . Freddy is gone then there’s nobody else ready who’s proven.
In 2400 minor leagues PAs JP’s slash is 270/.367/.391 with 14% K rate…and 13% BB rate.
That tells it all and what to expect long term.
Still cannot fathom how so many people think he will be a real bust by only looking at his last year’s worth of metrics…and even they were trending up over his last 300 PAs at LHV..
I didn’t say bust He might need a yr or so to adjust. If the Phillies take off next yr and JP hitting .225 for half the yr then you need a back up plan. There’s nothing as far as offensive SS anywhere near ready to take this place. JP hit .215 in his 87 PA . Let’s say Phllies are 2 out of a playoff spot in mid August . They need a good bench utility player like a Zobrist type just in case Jp needs more time .
Ok .270 with a .391slg doesn’t scream above avg hitter right away.
Yeah, sure, eliminate the most important stat for him (OBP) and then argue he isn’t good. What a disingenuous argument.
Catch not my pt with JP again he might take time on the offense . The highest slg he had in the minors was .414 his .obp in the upper minors was around .350 which is fine. His avg dipped form around .280 in the lower minors to about .250 in the upper.he could be like Addison Russell or Didi from the Yanks the offense could come later. Imo
And Bryce Harper is headed to the Yankees.
I concede. Bryce Harper will sign with the Yankees next winter. I’ll settle (actually prefer) Manny Machado.
And … since we’re assigning superstars to their new teams based on tweets, consider this: 4 of Mike Trout’s last 5 tweets contain the hashtag #FlyEaglesFly !!!
I’m for it.
I can guarantee you, Mike Trout will definitely be at the Super Bowl parade in February on Broad Street
Steelers are going to hold there super bowl parade on Broad Street?? Who would have thought that…
Big Ben will have to lead the parade…on his motorcycle!
the Yanks if they do get Harper the money will be Hugh. The Yanks aslo have to find room for Judge , Hicks , Frazier, Brett Garner. Tanaka has a contract were he could pull out of this yr . Phillies should try to sign him. Tanaka could be signed for 4 yrs 29 to 33 Phillies don’t have anyone in this class .
Watching the Baseball playoffs the Phillies really need a LH starter . The Dodgers started 3 out 4 in the NLDS . I mean Jamie Garcia ,Happ etc could be had.
My early Phillies Christmas list:
1 FA starting pitcher on a front loaded/short term deal (Darvish, Arrieta or Tanaka?)
1 SP via trade – the endless possibilities make this happen
1 quasi-blockbuster trade (something goes down with Miami?) where we acquire int’l $$, comp. picks and a top pitching prospect
1 hybrid coaching staff featuring Doc and Chooch reunited
1 unexpected surprise under the tree (ala Cliff Lee back in December ’10)
So … Keith Law thinks my Phillies-Angels trade proposal is not going to happen.
Cesar Hernandez for Tyler Skaggs and Brandon Marsh. Who says “no” ?
Angels would say no, with obscenities.
Hinkie….always need to throw in a pitcher with a position player…..Angels may be inclined to do it if someone with some MLB experience was thrown into the mix, like Pivetta. I do not think Eflin/Thompson/Lively/Eickhoff/Leiter would whet their appetite.
Though , ViVe may however.
Cesar plus Vinny or Pivetta might be too much considering Skaggs has a high injury risk.
But I can see a high possibility that Klentak will push for a trade for an under control MOR arm (but with potential) for the combination or Cesar and the other RHPs in the 40-man.
KuKo….your reasoning is exactly why the LAA will not take anything less. What ever you think is too much…is what they think is suitable.
They probably may however, budge on a Kilome, Eshelman or Medina, since their major league ready status is at hand or at least at some point in 2018..
LAA has no strong leverage to ask for more unless they are holding something against Klentak that they can fleece him.
i don’t view Cesar with high value as most here. Straight up, I don’t think Klentak get extract a lot of value from Cesar. Klentak should be ready to accept 2-3 high floor low ceiling type of prospects (which is basically who Cesar is) for Cesar. The trade for the likes of Skaggs or Norris is based on the premise that the injury risk is too high for LAA and DET and Klentak takes all the risk. If LAA and DET play hard ball, Klentak just need to walk away and avoid trying to outsmart himself and made a Domingo Santana type of mistake that RAJ did.
The best way to maximize Cesar is to package him in a bigger deal where Cesar is a complimentary piece (not the main).
Klentak can a high risk but high upside prospect(s) if he decided to dangle Vinny and Pivetta in a trade.
*i mean – Klentak can “get (a) high risk high upside” prospect(s)…..
See noway Ceaser worth a young Possible 2 or 3 arm.I mean the market next yr for 2nd baseman is Hugh.
I want to deal CeHe for a LHP, but I would not trade Cesar and Pivetta for Tyler Skaggs. Cesar and Thompson or Cesar and Lively … yes. If Klentak were willing to package CeHe and Pivetta, I gotta believe he could do better than Tyler Skaggs. I’d do Cesar and Pivetta to the Rays for Blake Snell. I’d even pay a portion of CeHe’s projected 4.7 million dollar salary in that deal. Otherwise, I’m fine trading Cesar for a top 50 prospect (regardless of position) and be patient and wait for our own young LHP’s. Elniery Garcia, JoJo Romero, and Ranger Saurez could be ready at some point next season. I think it’s important for Klentak to trade Hernandez this offseason because the 2B market will be flooded with FA’s (Daniel Murphy, Ian Kinsler, DJ LeMahieu, Brian Dozier, and Logan Forsythe) next winter.
It’s funny. Jason Martinez from MLB Trade Rumors in a chat a few weeks ago had a completely different view on that same proposed trade I asked Law about today:
Cam Bedrosian for Ceasar Hernandez have any legs or does Tyler Skaggs for Hernandez get it done.
I don’t think Bedrosian or Skaggs is a conversation starter for Hernandez. Injury concerns with both players. Could be part of a bigger deal, though.
With all due respect to Jason Martinez………just do not see it.
Pitching is the name of the game…injury risk or not.
They all come with some sort of a risk.
Have to agree with KLaw on this one…CeHe straight up does not get you Skaggs.
@hinkie – if Klentak wants to trade Cesar (and no other high upside arm) for pitching – it will be for a back end MLB starter (which no way since the Phils has abundance of #4/#5) or pitching prospect with MOR potential.
i agree with you that Klentak needs to trade Cesar ASAP (my preference is to trade him since last year). If there’s anybody who can complete a trade with LAA that will work on the Phils side – it should be Klentak. But Klentak should not push to much because other than Mike Trout, Jo Addel and Canning – there’s nobody desirable in LAA.
I will be watching the KC situation closely. They have FAs to lose so there’s opportunity there (no Cesar necessarily).
Klentak should not sweat losing ToJo, Galvis and Cesar in a trade. Once the new core starts playing together, people will get over it. I remember the reaction from various Phillies sites when Klentak traded McWilliams for Hellbody. Most don’t like the trade and were mad, but 2 months after – nobody even care.
If Matt Klentak trades Cesar Hernandez for a back-end starter, he’s a moron. Cesar is worth much more than that and the team doesn’t need a back-end starter. Good news is that I cannot imagine this happening.
Package Cesar, Haseley and another piece for Marcus Stroman, or pursue a similar deal with another team. If you’re going to make a deal, do it for a player that will make a difference in 2018.
“and another piece “…probably would have to be a pitcher….Kilome maybe, he could appeal to the Jays.
I’d be ok with Kilome as the third piece for a young, controllable #2 to pair with Nola.
Romus, what is Stroman’s contract status?
8mark … Stroman has 3 years of arbitration (2018-2020) left. He becomes a FA in 2021. https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/stromma01.shtml
Aaron Sanchez also has three years of team control. With Vlad Guerrero Jr. and Bo Bichette possibly making it to Toronto as early as late next season, the Blue Jays (IMO) will probably want to keep Stroman and Sanchez as part of their next contending team.
8mark……Stroman is not your typical 6’4″ RHP flame thrower….he is diminutive at 5’8″ and throws basically a 2SMr at 93/94 and a slider as his main pitches ….but generates a lot of GBs so he would play excellent at CBP.
@ Hinkie … my understanding is that TOR was open to dealing him at the deadline last year. You may be right, but it would be worth looking into regardless. If Stroman isn’t available, I’d target Fulmer or Cole. I’m hoping they come away with a young starter using Hernandez, Haseley and other non-essential prospects.
i like the possibility of Stroman too but the price will be prohibitive like Chris Sale kind of return — with the lack of elite talent in the upper minors (which I think TOR prefers) I’m thinking of Kingery (not Cesar) + Sixto and some for Stroman.
With financial flexibility and deep pockets I still think that FA is the best avenue to get the top arm that the Phils need. I understand that McSlow doesn’t want to pay for past performance, but no top elite talent will not let themselves not get paid considering the teams have their salary under control for at least 10 years.
The Phils have a strong pool of good arms (Kilome, Anderson, Seranthony, Sixto, Medina, Ranger, etc) to compliment Nola. it is not a death sentence to the team and the youth development to add at least one big FA splash in pitching market (Otani, Darvish) to hold the fort for now.
Don’t get me wrong … I’d rather they buy pitchers on the open market. But if they pursue an arm via trade, I’d rather they pay the price for a long-term piece than another reclamation project.
Mike H … while I didn’t hear talk of Toronto looking to trade Stroman at the deadline, you’re probably right … he is worth looking into. Realistically, if the Phillies love him (or Sanchez or practically any player) and feel like they just have to have him, they have the players/prospects to overwhelm the Blue Jays. Just depends on what you’re willing to give up.
Agree catch – if that’s the market, just keep him until July. Would add, dangle Cesar for Skaggs straight-up and see how quickly the Angels jump on the offer.
I like Cesar, but my 2B of the future is Kingery. Waiting past this off season with all the options available, does not make much sense. But I don’t expect a lot for him. I am not trading VV or Pivetta with Cesar to get Skaggs. I would rather make a small deal and get Kazmir or sign Jaime Garcia for a short term deal and wait for our younger guys. What about a trade for JA Happ, our old buddy? What would it take to get him?
Looks like Ron Gardenhire will be the Tigers’ new manager.
So with Grdenhire to the Tigers and Cora to the Sox:
………………looks more and more like the Dartmouth connection stays alive with Ausmus and Klentak teaming up.
Not sure who MK has also interviewed outside the org.
Romus with all the comments to trade Cesar. how do I save them because if kingery stinks I want people to see there comments. I never saw such disrespect for a good player like they have for cesar. They are banking there opinion on what. How many have seen this kid a lot?
rocco….so you are in favor of trading Kingery instead of Cesar?
I Am in favor of seeing this kid in major first before trading Cesar. Lets see what he does this spring in camp first. Unless I am getting back a good starter. I am waiting to make sure kingery is the real deal. That’s my point. Maybe he is good. but its not wise imo to trade a good player for unkown. Unless we are getting something good back. I have read on here the market wouldn’t bring back much for Cesar. if that is true I am waiting.
rocco….too late by then……you must strike while the iron is hot.
Your logic is RubenAmaroish 2.0. You are playing it safe and it backfires.
By then you will not be able to get anything of true value for Cesar.
Do you really think the other GMs are that dumb.
They know you cannot keep both unless Kingery bumps Doobie out of CF or knocks Franco off third base.
The market is what it is, but there’s no way I’m trading Cesar for less than he is inherently worth. He’s far too good of a player (arguably the best on the team over the last two years) to give away for pocket change like a back-end starter. And he has a little positional flexibility. If they don’t get a good return they should hold tight.
So what is Cesar worth straight up?
I guess that is the question.
I can only assume any trade he is involved in, he will have to be as an added value to the package.
Since straight up…..he may not be enough to get a Stroman…or even a LHP #2/3 like Skaggs according to KLaw.
@roccom – if you view the trade Cesar trade as Cesar vs Kingery, then I feel sorry for you. Executives make decisions based on alternatives and resources they have. As for resources, the Phils have a good stream of 2B in their pipeline – Valentin, Brito, Jose Gomez, Gamboa, etc have higher upside than Cesar. Yes, these were unproven prospects, well, Cesar to be an unproven prospect too.
As for alternative, the Phils have $$ and financial flexibility. They can fill the hole that Cesar left behind assuming that the (internal) resources are inadequate.
So in an executive mindset, losing Cesar is a risk worth taking since they have good resources and alternative to mitigate any failures this decision might turn into. Plus 2B is the easiest position to fill.
Kurdt it is a bad move imo if we aren’t getting back a good starting pitcher. I could care less about unproven guys. Did you not watch how bad this team is?? trading one of the few good players. based on promise to me is nuts. Sure we will have money. but why spend it on another second basemen if we have a good one now? I Want them to get a tor starter with the money and another starter like nola. that is were the money should be spent/
@roccom – i always believe that market dictates the value in trades and I put premium with upside in relation to the risks. I made an analogy before of Cesar to Jahlil Okafor – both good complimentary players with specific skills. Okafor had a good rookie year but the Sixers know that Embiid is the better talent despite of the health risk and not playing for 2 years. Kingery may not the be transcendent talent as Embiid is but he is a way better with good upside than Cesar. the inability of the Sixers to trade Okafor (and Noel before him) ASAP lowers his market value. Sixers only get an undersized player and a couple of draft picks for Noel and they might get less for Okafor.
The Phillies organization have a lot of people way better than the fans who can evaluate talent and abilities. Cesar might be a better hitter, but Kingery beats him in any other areas and Kingery will impact the game with his defense and hassle even if he doesn’t have the same AVE and OBP as Cesar’s.
@roccom – consider these scenarios (and this is based on the assumption that Cesar will stay who he is – light hitting high OBP 2B only player):
Scenario A – Cesar is traded, Kingery developed into a player that he is projected to be
WIN – WIN for the Phils since they got prospects from Cesar and they upgraded the 2B for years to come.
Scenario B – Cesar is traded, Kingery is not the player he is projected to be.
Phils got prospects and have alternatives they can try – Valentin, Canelo, Jose Gomez while waiting for better alternatives like Brito, Gamboa, Gonzalez, Guzman to continue their development).
Scenario C – Cesar is traded, Kingery is not the player he is projected to be, the 2B alternatives stink and the prospect from Cesar are bust.
Phils have $$ to sign any top 2B FA, they still have a developing strong pool of INF in the lower minors to tap.
Scenario C is the worst case scenario that can happen and this will not kill any franchise.
Cesar’s value may never be higher, and he’s FA eligible by the time this team is a true contender. Whether Kingery, Galvis, or Crawford, that are plenty of options for 2B. Why not fill an area of weakness (SP) by trading from an area of strength? Seems a sound strategy to me
Jon Heyman says Chip Hale has interviewed with Phils along with Callaway and DiSarcina. No word on Ausmus.
roccom, Abreu was a very good player who was traded for nothing because Pat Gillick wanted JRoll and Chase to be the leaders of the team. I don’t disrespect Cesar, but you have to take a chance on Kingery’s upside. I don’t see the value of keeping Cesar as a utility guy or holding him until late may and praying for another team’s injury. The window, I think to trade him, is this off season. I don’t know why you don’t like Kingery, but I see him and get the Utley lite feeling. I go with that.
Matt I never saw kingery play. so pls don’t put words in my mouth. I never said I don’t like him. I don’t know him at all. I think I have only seen one video on him. so I couldn’t tell you anything about him I just love how good Caesar has become. Hate to give him away for nothing which most on here think he is worth. I have read romus say he wouldn’t bring back much.
My apologies roccom, I did not mean to say that you did not like Kingery, simply trying to understand why you didn’t see what I saw. I do not mean to put words in your mouth and retract that comment. I still love Kingery and think that Cesar brings back prospects or a back end SP, not a mid level starter , and after this off season, his value is less. I enjoy reading your comments, and I don’t want you mad at me.
@matt13 – i think we are in the same page on how we read the Cesar situation. Klentak will definitely push for at least a MOR type arm for Cesar but the probability of that to happen is 33% – 2B doesn’t normally bring back good returns and Klentak doesn’t have a good track record of squeezing talent from trades.
my main concern is that Klentak might try to level up the ante knowing that Cesar alone will not give him what he wants. so I’m concerned that Klentak will start adding prospects from low minors like Medina, Fanti, Young, etc to sweeten the pot and still get a low ceiling arm (which you and I believe as his reasonable trade value) which the farm has in abundance.
I believe that Cesar is a good MLB player, but he is not the type of player that will give teams any sellers remorse since his skills are replaceable.
I still like Klentak to push for the Skagg’s , the Norris’, the Stroman’s or any MOR to TOR, but should be realize that GMs will not give upside MLB talent for a high floor player like Cesar. My fallback option for Cesar is to employ all the scouts and evaluate the teams prospect pools in A Short to A+ — this is the strategy that NYY used to acquire prospects like Albert Abreu and Jorge Guzman (for McCann) and HOU to acquire Martes (Cosart) and Paulino (Veras).
GMs know the concept of talent for talent unless they’re possessed by the ghost of Dave Stewart. Cesar is a high floor complimentary player with limited positional flexibility. Every GMs in MLB know this.
In my little fantasy world Cesar gets me a kid from someone else’s system that is on par with say Aaron Nola. I don’t know who that pitcher is or which team has him but I have to believe he is out there.
CeHe checks a lot of boxes for the analytic teams he gets on base, he runs well, he plays solid defense and he is a switch hitter which is a sought after commodity.
So while he has some drawbacks in his power and positional flexibility he still should net you a really nice player. It’s that simple really.
I think what’s open is whether or not it happens during the off season or in June or July.
DMAR……to deal Cesar….there will need to be a market for him, so there are probably three or four teams out there that may have a need for him right now.
The two Los Angeles teams and the Rays have been mentioned before here but I also think the Pirates could be in the mix.
And that pitcher that you label above that you fantasy about could be someone like RHP Mitch Keller who is close to ready, but still the Phillies would probably need to return a pitcher with Cesar in that deal….then there is HSer Steve Jennings drafted by them in 2017 who could really be a good one, but is 3/4 years away minimum..
When it comes to the Rays…..I would lean towards RHP Honeywell
Romus I would probably do both of those deals although Honeywell it appears has some immaturity issues but if smoothed out has some big upside.
LAD is my preferred trade partner because: a) they have a good scouting team so chances are, they have some good players across all levels in their farm; b) they might appreciate some salary relief; c) they are a contending team (and contending teams normally overpay in terms of prospects) and d) they’ve been a familiar trade partner in the past.
Forsythe has $8.5MM and already 31 yo. Utley is all grayed out and just want to get another WS ring. Hernandez looks like a natural for them. And if LAD wins the WS, they might feel generous to the Phils when it comes to trade.
Cesar hopefully can fetch a Trevor Oaks or Dustin May or Starling Heredia.
Romus … if the Pirates have an interest in Cesar, Keller would be a HR return. I just don’t think the Pirates are the team to trade a top 20 pitching prospect for Cesar (who is only going to get more expensive [4.7 million in 2018] going forward). The Pirate prospect you forgot is the guy we were all talking about four months ago. Shane Baz is a guy with a high enough ceiling for the Phillies, and big enough risk (because of distance away from MLB) for the Pirates to be a CeHe return. Another name to consider if Pittsburgh wants Hernandez … Tyler Glassnow. Don’t think I’d eventually pull the trigger on this trade, but the Pirates may have given up waiting on waiting for Glassnow to start throwing strikes.
Honeywell is another guy I really like and would definitely trade CeHe for. However, the Rays pretty much have him penciled in as part of their rotation next season.
My dream team in a Cesar Hernandez trade is the Dodgers. Mitch White isn’t highly ranked right now (not top 100). That will change this winter, and I would take him in a second. If White is a “no go” for LA, Dustin May and 18 YO Melvin Jimenez (who is very underrated) would also be high ceiling, young trade targets for me.
In the end, Klentak will probably add prospects to a Cesar trade to obtain a younger MLB pitcher.
Hinkie…did nt forget Baz….I think he is untouchable, though Jennings might be available for Cesar.
IMO, Keller would require the Phillies throwing in another pitching prospect…..maybe one of the young guns from A ball with high upside.
And agree…any trade involving Cesar may have to have something added to get that hi-end pitcher…
@hinkie – i think we agree on LAD and the best trade partner and it appears that we also agree on one possible returns — target underrated prospects. I will be thrilled if Klentak can pull a trade involving some of the young arms mentioned (i.e. Glasnow, Baz, etc) but the probability of that to happen is low.
that’s why i’m proposing that Klentak should employ his scouts and look for underrated high risk high upside prospects A+ and below. Cesar can easily fetch 2-3 high lottery picks and he will clear a needed roster spot in the 40-man.
If push comes to shove, I might even consider a slightly better version of a Pat Neshek trade for Cesar.
No disrespect to both Galvis and Cesar, but they are the poster boys of the crappy Phillies team. I understand that it’s too insensitive that both Galvis and Cesar played thru the bad years but will be booted out when the team starts to get better.
DMAR – I’m looking at Mitchell White and perhaps DJ Peters or James Marinan as primary pieces in a return for Cesar. White with no. 2 upside
I enjoy the insight you bring. Its romus who bugs me .LMAO
I wouldn’t compare the Abreu situation to the Cesar situations. They are two very different players, on two very different teams at two different stages of their career.
Abreu was traded, in part, to create a new winning atmosphere on the team and a new balance of power in the clubhouse – that’s not a concern with Cesar from what I can see.
Abreu was already in mid-contract on a big deal so his trade value was not enhanced. Cesar is still cost controlled pre-free agency for several years.
Abreu was already 32 and beginning the downward slope of his career. Cesar is 27 and is at the height of his playing abilities with many promising years to come.
It’s a totally different situation. There were reasons to dump Abreu that do no apply to Cesar.
Just read SIs article on a proposed realignment (Yay!) and possible expansion (Ugh!) in MLB.
The regular season scheduling format (if you can call it that) is unbalanced and awkward. I would agree with this writer’s suggestion that the AL and NL will and even should dissolve eventually but change in the conservative MLB comes very slow. I agree that division structure should be based solely on geography. As for expansion, there are already too many MLB markets whose fan bases (Miami, Tampa, hey even the Nats can’t draw gnats) don’t merit a big league baseball team. I would favor those relocation before any further expansion.
I like the idea of expansion, and Montreal is a natural, but Portland? I saw an article about a year ago saying MLB would want to balance expansion with both an eastern and western team (preferably Portland). However it went on to say that there is no realistic interest in bringing a team to Portland so far as a serious, viable ownership group, no stadium and no desire locally to use tax money to build one. This means any group that does come forward would have to have really deep pockets to build their own. I agree too that problems need to be fixed first in Miami, Tampa and Oakland. I don’t think Washington is as big a problem as those three.
I would like Canada to have a club out west…Vancouver….145 miles north of Seattle.
Then it would be Toronto and Montreal in the east and Vancouver in the west..
I can see Klentak swinging a trade for an arm and revisit the Stanton and Yelich trade with Jeter group this offseason.
Personally i like Klentak to talk to TEX and see if they can acquire Hamels back and take a chance of Profar considering HOU will be the top dog in the AL West for a while and TEX might decide to develop their youngsters and challenge HOU in 2 years time. TEX OF needs some improvement and so TEX might ask Doobie back – but TEX used to like Tocci (TEX offered more $$ than the Phils) before. I think this is an opportunity to unload the extra young SPs (Eickhoff, Lively, Thompson, etc) and OF (Tocci or Pullin) + ToJo (TEX needs a 1B) to get the veteran LH and high upside UTIL in Profar.
I’ve mentioned that KC is my target too – potentially losing Mous, Hosmer and Cain in FA. Franco, ToJo, Galvis and some young SPs can fit to a small market budget of KC.
KuKo … 100% agree that Klentak will be doing business with Jeter (and the Marlins) this winter. I believe Miami sees the Phillies, Dodgers, Yankees, Cubs, and Cardinals as the best landing spots for Stanton. However, I don’t think the Phillies really want Stanton. IMO, MacKlentak love Yelich and will offer Nick Williams, a pitcher(s), and will eat bad contracts to land him.
I do disagree with you on Eickhoff. I see him as a solid member of the Phillies rotation rather than an extra arm. IMO, the team should extend Eickhoff, along with Nola, Altherr, and Hoskins this offseason.
@Hinkie – I inserted Eickhoff since I don’t see TEX to settle with Thompson, Lively or Leiter for Hamels. TEX will probably ask for Vinny.
As for Eickhoff, I like him too but in 2 years time there are SPs that I like above him – I can see Pivetta, Seranthony and Anderson ahead of Eickhoff and I’m not including Sixto, Kilome and Medina yet.
I agree with you that Klentak should extend Eickhoff because that will enhance his trade value. I don’t shy away in trading valuable pieces but with limited ceiling – Cesar and Eickhoff fall into this category.
I’ve also mentioned my preference to sign top arms via FA. My mindset is always based on the 2019-2020 timeline so my player decisions are based on who I think should be part of the Phillies 2019 and onwards. Thinking of 2019, my rotation will look like:
#1 Top FA Arm (I really like Otani and Darvish here)
#3 Seranthony (or Anderson or Pivetta)
#5 JoJo (or Ranger) or Hamels
At best, Eickhoff is projected #5 unfortunately I can see better options than Eickhoff.
And I even forgot to consider Eshelman, who I think can be a solid #3 in 2-3 years time.
It’s kind of funny that, almost three years after he was traded, Cole Hamels looks like the best fit for a mature rotation stabilizer. But you’ll probably have to give them back close to the value you gave them to get him back – I love him, but I’m not sure it’s worth that.
@catch – Hamels of July 2014 is not the same Hamels of April 2018 or the Hamels of 2019. If Klentak gives back the July 2014 to acquire at certain point in the future, then he is asking to be fired. You don’t need to be a seasoned MLB GM to figure that out.
If Klentak will acquire Hamels now, it will cost him Eickhoff but the price will lessen as the years passed by. The only team(s) that will overpay are the contending teams looking for a Hamels profile.
Two/thirds of the Phillies’ OF were former Rangers.
i bet Rangers’ GM Daniels would jump at getting back either Williams or Herrera.
But would Klentak want to do that!
I would hope not.
Hamels for Eickhoff is a no brainer. I do that trade in 2/3 of a second, even if it is a lesser Hamels.
@romus – i expect TEX to start with Vinny and Doobie who they liked and Klentak will prefer to offer his excess personnel like Thompson, Lively, Leiter, Perkins, etc. In order for Klentak to complete this trade, he will be forced to find a middle ground — in my suggestion earlier, Eickhoff, Tocci and probably another SP or RP.
TEX and Hamels (and Profar) is an opportunity that I like Klentak to explore as long as no major players (Nola, Doobie, Vinny, Pivetta) are involved.
KuKo…..how about Doobie and Vinnie for Cole and Cole (Ragans)?
@romus – i might do that for Hamels and his mini-me in Ragans but I will ask at least one (or 2) more piece – either Kyle Cody or Matuella or Alexy.
Okay, now we’re talking crazy. Odubel and Vinny for Hamels is, in my view, a better package than the Phillies received a few years ago (quality over quantity). I would not do that trade. Odubel has more value than Hamels right now alone (although if it were straight up Odubel for Cole, I’d have to think about it).
Don’t rag on Ragans….he may have more upside now than Vinny.
Talent aside, entering his age26 season, Vinny’s health or durability could be a real concern.
And if Klentak get at least one of the pitchers i mentioned (Cody, Matuella, Alexy) to match with Ragans, it is not a bad trade considering the risk surrounding Vinny.
As for Doobie, it might hurt the Phils, but the Phils don’t need to deal with his immaturity anymore and the Phils can have Haseley coming up in 2 years, or better Mike Trout to man the CF.
In the current 40-man, Nola and Hoskings are the only untoucheables unless it will bring back a Mike Trout.
I would offer Doobie (team friendly contract + solid complimentary piece in a good lineup) and VV (high risk/high reward) for Hamels (rotation stabilizing lefty) and Profar (high risk/high reward).
Maybe I’m nuts, but I would not trade 27 YO Jerad Eickhoff for Cole Hamels (turns 34 in December). Rocco thinks Cesar gets no respect around here. I believe Eickhoff gets even less. I see him more like the 200 IP workhorse, MOR, 3.5 WAR pitcher he was last year. In addition, Eickhoff has four more years of team control (and he would probably be very receptive to a team friendly extension this offseason). There’s a pretty high probability Hamels (like most other mid 30’s arms) will continue to decline in performance. What’s he going to look like in 2019 (the last year of his contract) when the Phillies will really be counting on him to actually win ?
Romus and KuKo … I’m a solid “Hell NO” on a Odubel & VV for Cole & Cole trade, even if Texas included AJ Alexy (whom I really like). I think Jon Daniels would throw all three (Cole, Cole, & AJ) in a little red wagon and pull them from Dallas to Philly on foot to bring back Odubel and VV. ☺
The other thing wrong with trading Eickhoff now is you would be selling “low” on him. IMO, this offseason is a better time to extend him to a team friendly extension. If he rebounds (and I’m confident he will), and he’s eventually passed by younger pitchers, he would make a helluva trade chip at that time.
@hinkie – i’m not sure why you would say that an Eickhoff + Tocci + RP (possibly Rios) for Hamels and Profar is selling low. Even Hamels for Eickhoff + Tocci – i don’t see that as selling low.
I’ve never proposed any trade involving Eickhoff other than to acquire Hamels (and possibly Profar) from TEX.
Not because you are trading a player after a down season means you’re selling him low. Trades value depends on the value on both sides get. If Eickhoff is to be traded for a Buccholz type or cash or PTBNL – that’s what I can say selling low.
KuKo……to be honest, I do not think any of those three get you Profar added in the deal.
KuKo … we agree on a lot of things, but not this. For me, things get real for the Phillies beginning in 2019 (not saying they can’t/won’t try to win in 2018). IMO, Eickhoff at age 28, and with three years of team control (if he’s not extended by then) will be more valuable than a 35 YO Hamels in the last year of his deal. Profar is Dom Brown 2.0 (great prospect … not so great (or even good) as an actual MLB player).
@hinkie – i think we still agree with the value of Eickhoff. Our difference is on the value I gave on the younger pitchers in the organization like Anderson, Seranthony, Pivetta, Eshelman and the young guns Ranger, Kilome and Medina who all of them in the 40-man by next year and Sixto and JoJo the year after that. These pool of arms and might push Eickhoff out of the starting rotation by 2019-2020 – the timeline i’ve been making reference is most of my post.
It is hard to think about it now, but in 2 years time, you’ll understand what I mean.
I like Eickhoff quite a bit but he is not that good – he’s a 3/4 with velocity issues – people are way over valuing him here.
Cubs are the are the 16th straight WS Champ in the 21st century not to get back to the WS only 2 have done it and the 09 Phillies were one of them. Per Jayson Stark.
Your Friday tidbit
Should have read 16th WS Champ Not Straight sorry about that. Fact checking my own post.
Oh and the hapless Nats decide to part ways with Dusty Baker…dumb
Perhaps Dusty decided wanted more than $2M per year….he was getting paid less than when he managed the Reds and Cubs. Two weeks ago Rizzo had a contract waiting for Dusty. Maybe it was not what Dusty wanted to see….or maybe it was another NLDS loss for the second year in a row. Dusty is 68 years old now maybe they want to go younger.
The entire staff are up….so Davey Lopes is back out there.
Mike Maddux also.
What a great way to pour salt on the Nats’ wounds – hire their 2 best coaches! Especially since one’s a pitching coach and the other a base running coach.
Though Lopes at 72 may be looking to retire.
And I think Klentak wants to go younger across the board.
Maddux, otoh, is still young.
Romus … I’m on board with your Mike Maddox idea. Hopefully, Klentak gets Ausmus signed soon before someone else steals your idea. Former Rays pitching coach Jim Hickey would be a fall back option.
I’ve never thought Dusty Baker was all that great. He’s serviceable and does the job but I never thought he was anything special.
He is the best manager in baseball….. twirling a toothpick.
Another Managerial spot open. Hinkie, I agree on Yelich. I don’t think Jeter moves Stanton. I think he tries to unload some of those other contracts. I believe, besides Prado, there is Chen’s awful contract. What is the value, to the Marlins, to dump those 2 contracts? That is $25 Million, unless I am mistaken. Williams for Yelich and those 2 contracts, saves the Marlins $38Million? Chen’s has been described as unmovable. Everything is movable, for a price. Jeter can sell Stanton on that not being a teardown.
Chen’s contract has four years more of a player option….whoa…and he is 32 and injured often lately.
And in 2019 and 2020 it is $20M AAV.
“2021 option vests with
180 IP in 2020, or 360 across 2019-20
Is not on the DL at the end of 2020 and is healthy in 2021″
……taking that contract better get you both the marlim’s CBA pick and in the voice of Dr Evil…..”One million dollars” in international money.
Ha great minds think alike or maybe just 2 stunads
Are you sure Chen’s contract is awful? It appears to me he can elect free agency. It looks like the last 4 years of his deal are player options so I’m assuming it’s up to Wei whether or not he wants to stay in Miami.
His 18 option is for only $10 Million then $20 then $22 with the final year being a $16 million vesting option.
Why would he do that?
He is hurt.
And a injury will most likely mean that Chen will not opt-out of his contract, as it is very unlikely that he would receive anything close to a three-year, $52 million deal, which is what the Marlins are still on the hook for.
IDK I wouldn’t put it past Boras to convince him that his 6 really good IPs to finish the season would net him more than $10 mil in 2018 LOL
Well that is the elephant in the room…Scott Boras.
Phillies rarely deal with him.
Hellickson took the QO last and that is the latest contract matters between them.
But see your point.
You do not know what Boras will do under some circumstances.
Chen only appeared in five games for the Marlins this year before being put on the disabled list on May 5th with arm fatigue, related to the partially-torn UCL he has been pitching through since last summer. The ailment has Tommy John surgery written all over it, but no surgery has been scheduled as of yet. He was given a plasma injection..simjilar to what Aaron Nola received last year…. to aid healing in May or June…he came back in September at the end, but they are still in that wait and see mode until spring training.
So many question marks right now.
Regardless of the contract options, Chen is a pure salary dump to lower the price to acquire Yelich – it will just be annoying since it will take the needed roster spot (until eligible to be transferred to the 60-day DL). Prado, on the other hand, can be a bench player. These contacts will still require the Phils to surrender at least a couple of really good prospects to get Yelich – maybe one of Haseley or Moniak and JoJo, Medina or Gowdy.
Since Yelich will play CF, I will arrange of a pack of Doobie, Quinn, Appel (his #1 pick status might attract a newbie like Jeter) Lively and couple of low minors lottery like Mauricio Llovera for Yelich and the contracts of Chen and Prado and squeeze some more like Kolek as a reclamation project (and add Taveras or Arauz in the original trade package).
Chen’s contract (3 yrs @ 60 million) gets the Phillies even more !!!
Would you do this:
Marlins get … Nick Williams, Ben Lively, Yaksel Rios
Phillies get … Wei-Yin Chen (3 yrs @ 60 million), Edinson Volquez (1 yr @ 13 million), Brad Ziegler (1 yr @ 9 million), Christian Yelich, Trevor Rogers, and comp B pick
Hinkie…you really like Trevor Rogers…..going to be 20 years old in three weeks and still has not pitched an inning in rookie ball.
Personally I would take a gamble on their other HS LHP Dakota Bennet from Alabama….144 Ks in 65 innings. Same draft class…and he is two years younger than Rogers.
Not just me, Romus. I’ve read in three other places (Keith Law, Eric Longenhagen, and Frankie Piliere of D1 Baseball) the Phillies considered Rogers at 1-8. Also … over-aged HS hitters not good. Over-aged HS pitchers not bad (because their arms are more mature and less prone to injury). That said, I don’t know why he didn’t pitch after the draft (injury? don’t know), but he has an incredibly high ceiling.
I understand it is a bad contract. I read it as ’18, ’19 and ’20 is $58Million. I did not think there was any chance of vesting for ’21, because I don’t think he has any shot of 180 Innings. Maybe he gets TJ surgery and comes back in 2019 and can pitch effectively again? And, this all assumes that the Phils really love Yelich. I would prefer they acquire a SP using the same type of scenario. I just don’t know who has a SP to get that also wants to dump a bad contract or 2.
matt13……the PRP worked for Nola and Tanaka…it may work just as well for Chen.
He pitched a few games in September, so by ST he may be able to pitch stretched out. It is a wait and see.
I believe there will be a deal with Miami for Yelich which should be huge (with or without Stanton) with significant peripheral returns involved (i.e. comp bal pick, int’l $$)..
What is Harper worth after next season?
Todd Z now says Phil Nevin and Gabe Kapler have or will be interviewed by the Phillies. Sounds like the parade Ed Wade ran by us back in ’05 when he hired Uncle Charlie, who everybody knew was gonna be the guy from jump street. Kapler, however, does push the analytics/injury-prevention-conditioning/fitness technology agenda that MacPhail mentioned a few weeks back. At this point I have no idea. Watch – after all this, he goes with Wathan.
Get Dusty Baker and Mike Maddox .
Phillies’ job comes in second:
I have no sense yet of how smart Klentak is, or whether he will be good as a GM or not. But, he has an opportunity here to pick a top Manager for the team. I hate the Nats, even more than the Mets, but I acknowledge they have the talent to make their job appealing. They have an owner with deep pockets. But, the Phils job is right there. I have zero interest in Dusty Baker. I don’t mind a guy who managed in the Bigs before, but I wnat an analytically leaning guy. I know the off season next year has a lot of high level FAs, potentially, but I want Klentak to start to make major inroads in getting the team to contention this off season. I have no problem with Franco getting another year to show development, but if we can upgrade elsewhere, and can add a SP that will be here for 4-5 years, then we have to get it done. I hate to repeat myself, but this is on Klentak to show us what he is.
Conceivably, our 2018 lineup could look like this –
Kingery 2b (when he’s called up in May)
Nola p (yeah, the new skip might put the pitcher 8th with…)
Quinn lf (my dark horse break out player in ’18 to turn the lineup over)
(*Should Otani sign, he might bat 6th. Just sayin’…)
Why do you have Hoskins hitting third and not clean-op as he was in Aug and Sep?
Yelich would appear to be a good 3 hole hitter since he does make good contact with above average speed..
OBP, Romus. He and JPC make an impressive top of the lineup. (Yes Kingery may not be as high an OBP guy but still projects as a spark plug of the offense which he’s shown in the minors. ) Plus I like the R-L-R-L thing.
8mark … what did you do with Odubel Hererra ? I hope you didn’t trade him for Yelich. We’re going to need him (Yelich LF, Doobie CF, Altherr RF, Quinn 4th OF). We’re trading Nick Williams, Ben Lively, and Yaksel Rios for Yelich, Trevor Rogers, a comp B pick, Chen, Volquez, and Ziegler.
Packaged for SP.
Who did we get for Odubel ?
Someone from Texas, Toronto, LAD, or Detroit.
Herrera and Cesar together will get you the starting pitcher you want plus a real prospect or 2.
Stroman may be had with that combo.
I can see several players being traded for one starter, Maybe a package of Hernandez, Velazquez and Neris. Many possible scenarios. My wish list is short; one younger, multi-year starter via trade; one FA starter to eventually be flipped; and one veteran reliever.
Gonna be a crazy whirlwind winter.
You guys might remember better than me, but isn’t Tommy Kahnle the RP the Yankees offered us for Michael Young in 2013? I think that was when Buster Olney blasted RAJ for not trading him at the deadline.
You got it matt.
Stros onto the WS…lets go Guiles and Company..maybe they will get their first ring.
And never quite saw a post season line like Aaron Judge’s:
PAs 57…..slash.188/.316/.500….K-47% …BB- 16%…..ISO-.313…..wRC- 114
First the Cubs, now the Astros. Two teams who endured long stretches of woeful seasons, built strong farm systems, were patient, and won with a core of homegrown players and supplemented with key FA’s and trade acquisitions. Sounds like a very sound formula for sustained success !!!!!
Luhnow got blasted in July for not doing anything at the trade deadline, then just minutes before the August 31st deadline he made the deal for Verlander from the Tigers…so far he looks like a genius and it has paid off for them.
No Verlander no Keuchel no world series for Houston.
Judge had 5. Hr too and 2 great plays in the Outfield.
Callaway to the Mets, BoSox have their Mgr. Phils operating in secrecy.
Still think Ausmus is the guy.
But you never know with this regime as they cloak themselves preventing any breaches.
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