Here is the box score recap.
Lehigh Valley lost. Brandon Leibrandt didn’t last five. Carlos Tocci hit his first home run.
Reading lost their suspended game, unable to score a run. And, got beat soundly in the night cap.
Clearwater scored four runs in the final three innings to win on the road. Jose Pujols hit his seventh.
Lakewood won in eleven. Adam Haseley hit his first HR, Austin Listi hit a walk off single.
Williamsport lost a game shortened by rain. Kyle Young suffered his first loss. The second game was rescheduled for Sunday.
And, I watched the GCL Phillies lose in extra innings.
Here’s the affiliate scoreboard from MiLB.
The floor is open for comments.
72 thoughts on “Box Score Recap – 8/19/2017”
Tocci with the homer! Can’t complain!
Kingery hit a dinger as well!
Kingery with 25 homers (it was an inside the park job) plus 25 steals. The only player to have done it this year so far.
I am fully on board the Nick Fanti hype train.
At least the GCL squad is playing for something. Not many playoff teams this year
Things are not looking good on the farm.
At some level, you can see the farm and see disappointments.
But the thing to remember is that the most important thing a farm system can do is churn out a few gems and an okay share of decent players.
A farm team that plays .400 ball and has a future MLB all-star outfielder on its team and mid-rotation pitcher is more than doing its job.
By that measure, I think this was a pretty good year. The system graduated Rhys Hoskins who is doing what we all hoped and though he might do – looking like a future first division regular and possible all-star. Nick Williams has impressed even me, one of his bigger critics, with what appears to be improved plate discipline. Nick Pivetta has struggled, but his stuff is excellent. Behind them are Kingery and Crawford, who both look like first division regulars to me. Three first division regulars and other contributors on a AAA farm team is a treasure trove. Behind them in the lower minors are some big arms, including Sixto who, when he perfects his breaking pitches (which I believe he will), should shoot through the minors.
I think it’s been a pretty good year.
You said it perfectly. I had started to type that wins aren’t as important as prospect development. You said it way better than I could have.
For hitters, it has been a great year. Nick Williams had held his own with plate discipline. Hoskins has had a great start. Alfaro with a cautiously optimistic start.
For pitchers, it has been….not as good. In the bullpen, only Milner (thanks Cleveland Indians) has staked a claim for a spot in high leverage situations. Leiter looks to be the long man. In the rotation, this has been a huge disappointment. With open jobs available, Eflin and Pivetta have failed miserably. Jake Thompson is now out of the picture with his performances. Ben Lively’s numbers may not be great, but he’s getting the job done and he’ll get another start today to cement his status for next season. Yes, Lively is not a #1 and that’s ok. Phillies need pitchers who can keep them in games. Lively has done that.
Perhaps not a prospect , but Luis Garcia?
He did the shuttle run between LHV and Philly this season and he has come on.
Still like to think with Eflin and Pivetta, RHPs with high velo, there is a chance they will develop into reliable mid-rotation starters once they can command their secondary pitches..
If you’re talking about existing players who have taken a step forward, then Luis Garcia would fall into that category. Aaron Altherr, Cesar Hernandez too. Then you get the other side with Ramos and Franco.
Sure, Eflin and Pivetta are young enough that they can turn it around. They both will be invited to ST. But they both blew huge opportunities. And a year later, they’ll have more competition from the likes of Eshelman, Leibrandt, and even Taveras.
I disagree on Pivetta. If you watched him pitch you can see a whole lot of upside there. Average pitchers don’t strike out 9 out of 10 hitters. Only pitchers with exceptional ability can do that.
Pivetta has upside, but he’s also walking almost 4 per game, his fip is 5+ and his era is 6+. He has negative war. How long can the Phillies keep pushing him out there and him not producing? He’s had 18 starts already. He’ll probably finish with 22-24 starts which is close to a full season. How long before the Phillies give somebody else a chance?
Until they have a shot of making the playoffs – so the answer to your question is at least another year to a year and a half and perhaps longer. His kind of upside is worth the wait and the distraction. Ben Lively . . . not so much.
They don’t really have a better option.
He wouldn’t be the first guy to put up a high era with that kind of stuff only to figure it out year 2 or 3 in MLB.
The Phillies (baring a huge surprise) are probably not contending until 2019/2020/2021 ish so I think he gets another full season at least.
@ Catch, if Pivetta doesn’t show improvement the rest of the year, I don’t think he’s going to be guaranteed a rotation spot next year. He’s going to have to fight for one in ST. Same with Eflin.
Lively may not be flashy, and he may just be a placeholder for other pitchers in future years, but he’s keeping the Phillies in games.
Phils should audition Pivetta as a late inning reliever inn September. At no professional level has he been more than a 5-inning pitcher.
Pivetta may have his troubles at the major league level going deep into games so far….but he did make over 40 starts in his minor league career that went into the sixth inning and beyond, rarely did any go beyond the seventh inning however. Assuming pitch counts and inning counts played a role in that.
Actually Pivetta never did register one out in the eighth inning.
I hope your joking. He is getting his experience at big league level. If you cant see his potential then there is not one reason to talk with you. how can you watch his sfuff and not get excited on what he can become. you rather watch Thompson who stinks. lively who stinks. I just don’t get your reason the 22 and 24 if bull on this bad team. The walks is he is trying to be so fine, cause they cant score. but I think making him a closer isn’t very smart at this time.
Rocco is right, you can’t be serious. 18 starts and you’ve made your conclusion based on a couple select stats? Probably more than any sport, baseball requires patience. And Pivetta has shown enough to deserve time to try to put it together (and this struggling team has time). I’m with Catch and Romus too, I believe in Nick! He was my preseason pick for breakout, and I’d double-down on his potential after what’s he’s shown at AAA and majors this year. He could fail to develop but the Phillies would be crazy to give up on him so quickly.
Williams in a nutshell was bored with the minor leagues
Or, big league pitchers haven’t adjusted to him yet.
Odd……Martinelli, Listi and Hall all BlueClaws teammates and within the past three years all collegians playing baseball at Dallas Baptist Univ.
Romus … the Phillies also drafted Camden Duzenack (SS) from Dallas Baptist in the 23rd round last year, but they didn’t sign him. Their north Texas scout must carry a lot of clout.
They brought in Addison Russ with two outs and one one in the top of the 9th and his first pitch was smacked for a no doubt about it HR.
I mention Russ because the scoreboard gun had him at 98-99 and that gets your attention. He was a low round pick this year who signed for $5,000 but they moved him to Lakewood presumably because of the heat he throws. Getting a kid for $5,000 who throws 98-99 is worth the investment even if he never gets out of A ball.
Russ form Houston Baptist….Listi, Hall and Martinelli from Dallas Baptist.
Not sure who the scouts in Texas are these days now that Steve Cohen and Paul Scott were let go one year ago last July/Aug, but it is an area and state-Texas- with plenty of talent-rich baseball players.
Whoever is uncovering these players later in the draft needs to be commended.
The texas scout name is tony luke
I just hope he can make it to the big league so he can face Addison Russell – what a weirdly similar name.
How hard does Fanti throw?
Apparently, he touches 90 or 91, or so I’ve heard
But sits in the mid to high 80s – again, according to reports.
For your consideration.
It’s a crazy small sample size but, amazingly, Fangraphs shows Rhys Hoskins as playing an average to above-average left field. I’m going to track this carefully for the rest of the season, but if Hoskins could somehow stick in left and be average – man does that improve his value. I’m not drawing any conclusions yet, but it’s worth keeping your eye on.
Oh man, for sure. Would open up so many options .
That’s crazy. He’s butchered at least 2 balls by my count.
I didn’t think it would be a bad transition because he’s played OF before.
What if Alfaro starts mashing…
You keep him at 1B, Hoskins LF
Crawford SS, Kingery 2B. The rest of the blanks aren’t prospects so I won’t get in to that discussion.
What if Cameron Perkins turns into JD Martinez?
No but really, if Alfaro hits enough to be a ML catcher that would be great, let alone enough to be a 1B. He’s got 25 at-bats with a .500 BABIP.
Not a fan. Until he improves his plate discipline which is not likely, he’s a back up. I think our best hope is Knapp. If the team trades Knapp in the hopes Alfaro will blossom that will tell me a lot about their ability or inability to evaluate their own players.
Knapp’s injury really is a shame because it cost the team a chance to evaluate him going forward. There was some promise in his season but he didn’t get that much playing time.
I wonder what Alfaro’s trade value even is at this point; it definitely seems like one of those guys is going to get moved but I can’t imagine that the team feels sure about what either player is going to be.
That would be a drastic improvement. Even if he’s just an average defender out there or slightly below, that kind of flexibility would be huge for an NL team.
Unfortunately, its hard to image Fanti being an impact major leaguer with that velocity. The system top to bottom seems to lack pitching with above average or better velocity and secondary pitches
As Joe Jordan said in the interview….lefties are different pitchers.
They seem to be able to survive with lower velo than RHPs…if all the other aspects of their game..command and location are plus.
Historically true but I’m trying to think of any pitchers even lefties who occupy a top 3 spot in any current top 15 rotations that sit at 86-88 mph. Sounds like another back end of rotation candidate. We have a boat load of 4-5 starter candidates
That could be true.
Guys like Moyer, Glavine, Randy Jones may be dinosaurs
Though randy wolf lasted a lon while…..asa 4 or 5 however.
Then there is Astros’ Keuchel , he is an ace and the last time he saw 90 was on his speedometer on I-10.
So it can happen….maybe a long shot at that.
Romus its hard for any pitcher to be effective at 88. for every wolf or glaivine there a thousand who don’t make it. A guy like Keuchel is just on of the few who can do it. so the odds as you say are long. That’s why when guys come on here and talk about low velocity righthanders who are good , my answer will always be thousand with that velocity wont make it. I just think a right hander needs to be at 93 and up. look at nola when he was 90 he was getting hit. now he is up to 94 and a lot better. When guys know you cant get it buy them, They can look break ball first which is the opposite way to hit. do that with a guy like pivetta and your a dead out. I Also will say having great velocity doesn’t mean your lock to be a good starter. with location and two at least other pitches its hard to be a starter/
Wolf was an exception – he sat 90-92, but had a riding high fastball that he hid well and allowed him to pitch as a power pitcher not a finesse pitcher.
Yea Wolf was around that velo when he first came to the Phillies…..but after 28-years old or so, he rarely touched 90 according to Brooks.
rocco……understand. But with Fanti he evidently has something going on that , at his current level, is working. even the Phillies realize that as Joe Jordan said this past week:
“………….. he’s obviously forced his way into the conversation as far as recognition and notice as far as what he has done. But, I think in our industry left-handers have different rules than other guys. He’s not a guy that throws 95 miles an hour. He’s not a guy that a lineup worries about as far as getting beat with big stuff. But what he can do is use a combination of three or four pitches. And he’s a guy that has a chance to pitch in a major league rotation one of these days……..”
With LHPs it is not always about Kershaw/Bumgarner velocity 94 and north.
Granted that makes the best……but Fanti still has the opportunity to bring up his velo a few more ticks with added strength.
Milner too,Liebrandt too ,Colon, Kendricks, Porcello,etc look around the league.
Tim….the test….which one of those pitchers gets selected to start for a team in the opening game in the playoffs against another 95 win playoff team?
Porcello?…..only if Sale, Pomerantz and Price are all hurt.
Bottom line….the true great RHPs have higher velo nimbers.
LHPs can sometimes get away with something less than mid-90s….but not often in the playoffs.
Percello was CY Young 22 _ 4 last yr . He’s won double digit wins 7 times. He’s only 28 and has 115 wins . I completely understand Sale the number # 1 . Pomerantz also throws 90 but at is a lefty. Btw Price is been hurt the last 2 yrs and when he isn’t he stinks.
Dallas Keuchel is 88/89.
Big game in Williamsport today. I know it’s a Major League game but I mention it on this board because it has implications for the Phillies minor league club in Williamsport. MLB contributed $$$ for park renovations which undoubtedly contributed to an increase in average crowd size this year. There are indications that this may be an annual event, so hopefully more $$$, maybe. And perhaps the publicity will help with further gains in attendance.
Romus I meant to say that. lefthanders can get away with less velo. They cant throw a ball straight if they tried, they have natural movement. I just think right-handers cant its just too hard with low velo in majors for them.
I dont get why a mlb game played at the Phillies affiliate is not including the Phillies. Surely they had this in the planning long enough to adjust the schedule. I think Phillies/Mets would have been a better rivalry game for the area.
The reason is dollars. Advertisers don’t want the low numbers the phillies get on tv. to see there products. which cost them a ton to buy. ads are costly and you want a large audience to see them
Really impressed by how Crawford turned his season around, but not only that, has showed elite ability. I gave him a pretty hard time to begin this year. He’ll have to do it in the Majors but I’m willing to admit I was wrong about the guy . .242 from where he started is great and his obp is obvioisly outstanding.
April was horrible, June was eh. May, July, and August, have shown the player that he can be. He would probably be closer to .275BA/.375OBP if it wasn’t for April
Some observations on Threshers from last night.
For five innings, Ranger Suarez looked like Sixto Lite. His fastball consistently 90-92, more often 92. Kept the ball down. Suarez seemed to lose his focus in the sixth inning, almost as if he knew this was his last inning and he just didn’t bear down. He lost control. Pitches were all over the place. Fast ball lost some zip. Gave up a single. After a meeting on the mound, Suarez got it back. Found the sone again. Zipped at 92 again. The he gave up a bloop single and it was over for him. Another hit and two score.
JD Hammer followed and put the hammer down. He’s a big guy with big pitches. a 24th round draft pick last year but doesn’t look like a 24th rounder. I lost a little attention when Hammer was pitching as I was talking to people behind me, but i noted 94 and 96 on two pitches.
Hammer was followed by Trevor Bettencourt, a 25th round pick and a softer thrower, 89-92 on fast ball, 79 to 81 on soft stuff. He got the job done.
Jose Pujols looked like Rhys Hoskins in his first at-bat. He didn’t swing at bad pitches. He took two close down and away balls. He worked the count and earned himself a base hit. Maybe Jose is starting to learn his lessons, I thought. Then he struck out twice. The old Jose was back, though the second strike out was looking. In his last at-bat, Pujols slammed an opposite field home run. This guy has such power and potential that ya gotta give him more chances to get disciplined.
Mark Laird. I know he doesn’t project as a MLB regular, but I really like this guy. Every game I’ve seen this year he has played good fundamental baseball at the plate, on base and in the field. Jim, I know, has seen him far more than I. I wonder what his observations are.
Edgar Cabral threw out a base stealer at second with some help from the baserunner. Cabral threw the ball well off target high and to the right of second base. The ball got there before the non-sliding runner who just ran into the tag.
Great write up!
I was encouraged by their faith in Pujols. Sounds like they’ve got some plans for him.
Strike outs not withstanding, Pujols has looked better at the plate recently. When I did color last week during the first Tebow game, I remarked on-air that I would expect Pujols to “make solid contact” because he had really improved his approach. He hit a 3-run HR in that or his next AB. He’s still going to strike out, but he’s going to look less bad doing it.
My observations of Mark Laird since his first pro season have been the same as yours. The only thing he lacks is power. This is the first year I have not seen him play in person other than in ST, but he has impressed me as a sound ballplayer.
SWFL, I like Laird. When he was out with an injury from a diving catch a couple weeks ago (concussions symptoms), the Threshers had a revolving door at the lead off spot and didn’t hit well at all. When Laird returned and took over at the top of the order, things returned to the better level of mediocre that has become the Threshers’ second half. In the outfield, I believe that Laird is in the running for a defensive award in the FSL. The only question is whether he gets enough playing time to qualify. We all know that a good center fielder makes life on the corners easier. Well. Laird is that kind of center fielder. He has speed, he is 11-12 on steals, BUT he hasn’t attempted a steal in a month. I wonder if he’s not hurt.
Frank, regarding Suarez and Threshers’ pitchers in general, I have noticed that when they come out for their expected last inning, they have a spike in velocity. It’s like they feel they held back to pitch 5-6 innings, and now they want to show they still have something in the tank, or more likely see no sense in taking any remaining velo back to the clubhouse. I’ve noticed it with almost every starting pitcher who has come thru Clearwater this year.
Jim now that to me is interesting. Spike in velo, after 5 innings. wonder why. Great question to ask the pitching coach down there if you get a chance
Wow, was just looking at starting lineups in reading and Clearwater. Other than Randolph, I’m not sure there is a single position prospect left that’s more than an end of bench player.
I know what you mean. A guy sitting behind me last night asked if they are my future Phillies. I had to admit maybe not.
But the pitchers might be a different story. As I mentioned in a post yesterday, Sixto pitched Friday and he was as advertised. JD Hammer looked last night like he has good stuff and control. And then there’s all the Latin starters with the fun names.
For sure, the system at AA and A Clearwater definitely has more pitching than position prospects.
Yes, Frank. Clearwater’s pitching has been phenomenal this season. It was expected to be the strength of the club and has lived up to expectations. Remember, back in April and early May, Clearwater had one of the two best ERAs in all the minor leagues. And, their season starting rotation, except for Dominguez who was on the DL, has been promoted. Leaving us with just Dominguez, Sanchez, Romero, Suarez, Mills, Arauz, and Garcia. They’re the reason I still go to the games, TBH.
JPC is starting at 3b tonight. Matt Gelb said that JPC might be playing 3b and 2b in Philly in Sept. ,will not be at SS because Freddy will be starting 162 games.
Other teams do this with their prospects. When the Daytona Cubs visited Clearwater the year they drafted Kyle Schwarber (2014), he played both catcher and left field in a 4-game series. They didn’t wait until AAA to play him at multiple positions. That has been the problem with the Phillies. Multiple positions looks like an afterthought (see Darin Ruf, Rhys Hoskins).
JP Crawford could play 3rd base in the majors towards the end of the year
First time he played a position other than shortstop in the minors if I read that correctly
So much for Maikel Franco. At 25, I guess they have given up? Maybe he gets some hacks at LHV to get his confidence back?
Interesting the article mentions JPC will try some 2b and Kingery will play different positions too. I hope the Phils aren’t committing to Galvis over Cesar.
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