Here is the box score recap.
Lehigh Valley lost, Jake Thompson got rocked early and Pedro Beato was as bad as he was on his Clearwater rehab.
Reading was suspended trailing by a run.
Clearwater lost on a ninth inning walk off.
Lakewood was postponed, rain.
Williamsport couldn’t recover after allowing a 7-run first inning.
And, I watched the GCL Phillies drop a game in Tampa.
Here’s the affiliate scoreboard from MiLB.
The floor is open for comments.
65 thoughts on “Box Score Recap – 8/18/2017”
Does anyone have any idea what happened to Jake Thompson? He was pitching so well before hos call up last year.
I think he was never that good. He’s been exposed.
I don’t think that he was ever a world beater,but I do think that there has been some regression. I couldn’t tell you what exactly….and I still think that he could turn it around. Just a tweak to a pitch here or there, maybe an off-season to regain confidence, study film, and heal up would help too.
Yeah, it’s fair to say there has definitely been some serious regression. The real problem is that he’s just another guy who throws 89-92 MPH. For all of his vaunted prospect status, in terms of raw stuff, right now, there’s almost nothing separating him and the other potential 4s and 5s we have in AAA, like Ben Lively. So maybe he’ll figure it out, maybe he’ll gain some velocity, but he’s not a future piece of a rotation like, for example, Nick Pivetta might be.
Yeah, the Jake Thompson that was a top prospect does not exist right now. Last year he pitched well in AAA with diminished stuff; this year I don’t know what the difference is but it seems like further regression. Honestly the one difference between him and the other back-end starter types we have in AAA seems to be that his pitchability is behind theirs.
In terms of prospect status in this moment:
I might flip Thompson with Appel who looks like a lost cause but otherwise looks about right. Not an inspiring group. Pitching help from the minors seems now focused on AA and A level
Eshelman, I think, is a tier above all of these guys, except perhaps Taveras (who I’d have ahead of Lively), who is better than people think. I’d also flip Appel and Thompson because Appel is always hurt and he’s a head case. If Appel comes back (and he might, even though he will be left exposed in the Rule 5), he should come back as a reliever and try to turn his career around this way because he hasn’t shown the ability to be a capable starter.
Eshelman is kind of a one-off player. He has elite command which, to me, means that if he can develop a nasty breaking pitch, he might actually become a mid-rotation starter. He will never produce a lot of “wows” but he could be a very solid big league pitcher and potentially valuable trade piece.
Agree that Eshelman is clearly ahead of the group. I haven’t seen Taveras pitch so I don’t have a good idea how his stuff will play at the next level. I don’t think Lively will amount to much; I just put him second because his fastball seems like it’s ML average. Leibrandt was the hardest one for me to place because nobody asks about him and he doesn’t seem to produce any scouting blurbs unlike the other guys. I put Appel ahead of Thompson because he has better stuff now, but both guys are about off the prospect radar.
Your right on with your evaluation of Thompson when you say he’s just another guy who throws 89-92. The Phillies have a whole system of those guys.They get to the Majors and they get mashed.
Nola and Pivetta are the only guys on the starting staff that are capable of holding there own up there. That’s why their in last place. In the majors you can’t throw basically the same pitcher every night and hope to win. No lefty starters, no flame throwers, just the same righties throwing the same thing every night.
Wait what? Pivetta is holding his own with a 6+ ERA and negative WAR?
Guru….18 games he has pitched in….with Game Scores of 55 or better in 7….which 55 is more or less a quality go.
However on the flip side……he has had 8 games with a Game Score of less than 45 and some really low….which is horrific.
He seems to be either red-hot or ice-blue in his consistency.
His velocity tempts potential..
@ Romus, Pivetta has potential but he’s not holding his own. If he was on a playoff team, he would have been sent down last month. The scary part was yesterday, Ben Davis mentioned that Elfin has better secondary pitches than Pivetta. That’s not saying much, because Eflin’s secondary pitches are not great either.
Guru, it’s interesting that Davis said that but it strikes me as being completely wrong. Pivetta has a swing and miss breaking ball while, otoh, I wouldn’t consider any of Eflin’s secondaries to even be average. Frankly, I think that’s why he’s so bad and can’t strike anyone out.
Right now it is audition time for the young Phillies and these guys are now trying their best. All these guys dominated at LHV at one time or another….it may take a little while for them to adjust to MLB hitters.
Eflin understand has some shoulder issues going on.
I guess he will be placed on the 10-day DL soon….retro-active to yesterday..
Sixto Sanchez delivered a quality start. The kid did not walk anyone. Impressive.
His cealing is unvelievable. I see him in the mayor no later than 2019.
This weekend we have Suarez and Arauz starting for Clearwater. Let’s see what they bring.
I got to see Sixto last night for the first time.
He came as advertised: seemingly effortless. He looked more relaxed throwing 96 MPH than the opposing pitcher did throwing 91.
Sixto began around 96 on his fast ball and 88, 89 on breaking pitches. But he was hittable. And the hits were well struck. They weren’t bloopers and bleeders. However, he kept the ball down in the zone throughout the game.
Impressively, Sixto got stronger as he went along and shut down the Stone Crabs. By his final two innings his fastball was consistently 97, 98.
I understand he will be on pitch and/or innings limits, but I would have liked to see what he might have done into a seventh or eighth inning.
Have to like his velocity.
Those four straight singles in the second, I assume, is what you were referring to as the hard well struck hits?
How about the other hit balls that he surrendered that were outs?
I don’t have my notes with me, but I recall at least several of the early innings outs were hit sharply. Still, he was effective and, as I said, dominant as the game progressed.
Just saw Kirsten K’s write up and she did mention that …it was really that one inning that things slightly unraveled for him.
And I think you are correct…he is up to 85 innings now, and if they do something similar to him as they did with Franklyn Kilome last year (115 innings), he probably has about 25/30 more innings max before he is shut down, which is really about 5 more times thru the rotation for him, and the season should be over by then anyway..
How about Tocci batting 3rd at LHV? And he got 2 hits in his first start. Good to see Kingery and JP continuing to hit. JP over 240 now. Pelletier keeps hitting…
Maybe it’s me but I’ve been hoping that Sixto would have an amazing start at Cwater and he hasn’t had one yet.
There are some very good aspects to Sixto’s CLW start…..his BB/9 is exceptional for a just turned 19-year old.
Indicating great control and at least good command. From reports many of the hits are not squared so that is also a plus.
I think if Sixto can develop one above-average breaking pitch and a third “show me” pitch, he’s going to take off. Assuming he remains health and on track, he’s going to finish his age 19 year (next year) in AA or AAA, which is staggering. He’s easily the best starting pitching talent in the system since Cole Hamels (Carrasco was a high level talent while with the Phillies, but became much better a few years after he was traded – he never showed the type of stuff Sixto is showing as a Phillies prospect and the same goes for Gio Gonzalez).
I think he needs a pitch that moves. He has plenty of time to develop it but I just keep hoping for the moon from him. I remember how good Hamels was in the minors and that’s what a future major league ace looks like in the minors. Dominant. Kilome is pitching well but surely not dominant. Sixto is very good but not yet dominant. Romero looks very good also but not dominant. Eshelman has a chance because of his control to be a decent 4/5 starter. He’ll get his chance soon. He needs a 40 spot to be called up in Sept, that could be tough.
Eshelman can go one of two ways…as a pitcher like Kyle Hendricks or Rick Porcello……or as a pitcher like former Phil Kyle Kendricks.
Yeah, those are all possible outcome. Agreed.
sorry – typo – outcomes
No eight-handed Dallas Keuchel?
Murray, I agree with mostly every thing you said, but the Hamels as an ace comment. I am a Hamels fan as well, but when he was called an ace I thought he was a bit unworthy of that distinction. Halladay, Randy Johnson, Kershaw. They are what I believe are ace’s. The numbers don’t lie.
JP’s ops is over 750, which is kind of my threshold of quality for middle infield prospects. Hard to believe, but it’s not going to be wasted season after all. This is huge!
What’s huge is that all signs point to the fact that he has turned the corner and is a heck of a lot better than a .750 OPS in AAA.
The most amazing thing about his season is that, after one of the worst starts I can ever remember for an elite prospect, his recent performance suggests that he has improved significantly and may better than we originally anticipated. That’s what elite players and prospects do – they exceed your expectations.
By the way, for all of the Odubel doubters out there – how does your major league team look on offense and defense without that guy in the lineup? Not too good, eh? It’s not entirely a coincidence – he’s a hell of a player.
Player A: 11.2 fWAR through first three MLB seasons
Player B: 10.5 fWAR through first three MLB seasons
The first player is Ryan Howard.
The second is Odubel Herrera.
Yes, and while Ryan Howard’s WAR production dramatically tailed off after year 3 I see Odubel’s numbers continuing to improve. I’m not trying to minimize the weird and frustrating issues with Odubel – they are maddening to be sure – but, even with those flaws, he’s still a heck of a player.
But he’s not a winner, in my opinion. His bad instincts will cost his team in big games. I say trade him in the offseason when his value is very high.
Almost everyone on this team is in play in terms of possible trades – but I wouldn’t move him to move him. I’d need a boatload of value in return.
@ Murray so we trade off Odubel for more prospects. So when are we contending again? 2022?
I put myself in the Odubel-doubter camp but I never suggested pushing him off a bridge. I did propose a deal with the Marlins for Yelich that I did and still do think would improve the Phils.
The Phils are in need of a young leader or 2 who don’t take an ab let alone a week off, that take the extra base because they play with their head up. For all the love of WAR, flight paths and other metrics, a young Utley would really help this team. Hoskins is going about it the right way, Williams is showing signs and Kingery could be that guy. It would not only make the Phils a lot easier to watch now but could be contagious with team mates on the field.
Sorry that was supposed to be in response to catch22s comments about JP
If you imagine that Ortiz was our first pick of last year’s draft, then you have to be pretty happy with the early returns. I’m not dumping on Moniak, but I have changed my expectations. I kind of think that he’ll have a Tocci like trajectory to the major leagues now, and be a similar, albeit hopefully better, version of player.
All that to say that Ortiz is looking great!
There is a very large physical difference between MM and Tocci. Mickey’s ticket is to go home and get big and strong – he has the ability to do that I believe. Tocci really does not. Tocci is a slower version of Doug Glanville, perhaps with a slightly better power projection and better field and throwing tools (Tocci really is an exceptional outfielder and he makes contact – but absent a miraculous burst of power, I don’t want him as a regular in my outfield).
Not convinced that MM’s “ticket” or “solution” is to increase size and strength. Sure, more power would be nice, but that really isn’t his main issue right now.
Yes, I hear you, but . . . if he is going to continue to have challenges with plate discipline and his hit tool, he darned well better develop some power if he hopes to succeed at higher levels.
I agree. Tocci seems to peak developmentally as a productive 4th outfielder due to Contact skills and defense or as part of a trade. Not a regular on a playoff level team. MM, as first pick, obviously needs to peak as a quality regular CF or its an unproductive top pick.
Jake Holmes is off to a really encouraging start. His triple slash kind of hides it due to the low BA but he’s got only 11 K’s to 10 BBs in almost 100 plate appearances. Plus he’s showing some pop with 6 XBHs including 2 homers.
Yes, he and Ortiz are among the more promising lower level bats.
Reference J Thompson – wasn’t there some discussion about the loss of his slider ? He seemed to use it very effectively the year before last year, then lost it in 2016, and I would assume, still has not found it this year ? I recall reading that somewhere or was it my imagination ?
Yeah his slider was his best pitch but he seems to have lost his feel for it for some reason. Real disappointing
I hope I’m wrong but I usually say that a pitcher only stops throwing something for one reason – pain. I hope I’m wrong.
From Jay Floyd’s recent interview with Joe Jordan:
Moniak and Haseley:
“………..both guys have a lot of strengths….. We’re gonna alternate them in center field. We’re going to expose them to the corner, use the DH spot. They’re going to finish the season there … I think it’s good that Adam is with that club now. And, for me, they’re both going to be right in the middle of what we’re doing….”.
“………high school kid out of Canada. I think historically, those guys are a year, year-and-a-half behind the hs seniors in the states. Ben’s had a great summer….gotten stronger… seen good stuff day in and day out. I think we can stack his numbers up against anyone…”
“……left-handed, 94 with a breaking ball and a change up. He just needs experience. It would not surprise me two, three years from now if you start talking about our system that this guy’s in the top six, seven guys that we’re talking about. He’s got that kind of ability”
“……….Jose he’s had a bad year. I don’t think I can sit here and dress it up any way other than that….. from an approach stand point and a consistency stand point, it’s been a tough year. and we’ve got plans for him this winter. We’ve got a place for him to play. He hasn’t forgotten how to hit. He hasn’t forgotten how to drive the ball. He’s just had a bad year, so we’re going to use the winter to re-set him and get him back on track in 2018.”
“……….he’s an RBI guy and you take three weeks away in the first half where he was not with that club (due to injury), ….He’s been consistent. It’s a very, very young roster….And this guy has– he’s gonna be in a lot of conversations at this point next summer. I think he’s done a hell of a job and he’s got a chance to win the MVP in the Sally League …..”
“……..He can go up to 94 miles an hour on both sides of the plate and he has a great feel for his change up. He’s got a curve ball and a slider. And he’s left-handed and he knows what he’s doing. ….., is gonna pitch in the big leagues for a long time. He’s smart. He knows who he is and he’s got a lot ability.”
Sorry…the link for the entire transcript form Jay Floyd’s interview.
Silva comments are an eye opener!
Agree….chalk up soon, another young lefty in the system
Baseball Betsy got him in the FIL:
Phew Co!e Irvin wow !
Nice start by Sixto
JPC JPC JPC! All I gotta say!
Kingery also good
Great Joe Jordan interview. The best I have seen. I could swear it was reported on this site that Irvin throws 87-90. Basically a soft tossing lefty. Jordan said he can throw 94 which is obviously huge for Irvin’s future.
@NL….wow good memory.
ciada observed and scouted him on July 30th in Hartford.
ciada July 31, 2017 at 6:42 AM
“Balls were flying out of the donut field Sunday afternoon. ………
Cole Irvin struggled quite a bit but showed flashes of what may someday come to be at CBP. He took a 3 run lead into the bottom of the first and immediately got into trouble. Finding his footing early, his FB was 85-89. After giving up a tying 3-run HR, he got angry and started throwing 94-95. It definitely woke him up.
Irvin settled down the next couple of innings but the Goats were still hitting him around. ………… Missing from minor league pitchers’ ability is breaking pitches. Not Cole Irvin. When it got to the fifth inning, Irvin needed to face the 2-3-4 hitters who were a collective 5-6 against him. He got them one two three which was a great sign. ……….Irvin’s FB was consistent at 89-92. What makes him a possible for the Phillies rotation is his assortment of stellar breaking balls and his mound presence. He is also a great athlete and a very good hitter. I really think that this kid has a chance to be a productive MLB pitcher………….”
Not that his #s will necessarily translate to the Majors, but JP’s OBP would rank 3rd among all SS. He could be a tremendous #2 hitter if he continues that.
There were some who called him a bust, and they’ve gone quiet.
I’ve been confident JPC would turn it around and that he has.
I’m confident another top prospect of ours will have the same turnaround next year.
Good to see JP finally hitting for a decent BA.
Do u guys think C Randilph is good enough?
Would you trade Franco for Josh Harris of thePirates?
Are you talking about Josh Harrison? Is this really a legitimate question?
Yes. I think he would bring some energy to the team
Uh no. If the Pirates GM made that deal, he would get fired on the spot. I don’t know why you think you can get a good player by trading away a bad player. It boggles the mind if you think this deal can actually happen.
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