60 thoughts on “Box Score Recap – 8/10/2017”

1. We need bats!!!!!!

   1. As I pored over the organization’s box scores last night, I concluded the same thing. With the exception of Darik(sp?) Hall and maybe a budding Jahlyn Ortiz, they have no bashers. I know the focus is on pitching, but Theo Epstein has a different philosophy with the Cubs: grow the hitters and buy or trade for the pitchers. It worked.

      1. They took two bats in the top 8 of the draft over the last two years, the problem is that neither looks like a basher. Throw in C a few years back, who also appears to be non basher. So, it is not like they are ignoring bats, maybe just not picking the best ones.

         1. Randolph will hit 15-20 homers…Cozens mashes..Kingery hits some homers…Crawford is showing some serious pop…Hoskins just got promoted…

            1. You mean this year? Randolph has 11 and there are three weeks left. Maybe he gets to 15. Maybe.

               1. this year or next. i didnt really specify, did i? he still has more potential than what Rubber Ducky is saying.

         2. thats the core issue. The lower levels should be teaming with offensive production considering their draft slot last several years. Just not working out yet. Still lots of time but red flags popping up all over.

      2. Didn’t they lead all of minor league baseball in HR last year? Didn’t they have the number 1 and 2 HR leaders in the entire MiLB at a few points in the year? Didn’t Hoskins set a LHV record for HRs in a season that someone else may break in the same year? But I kinda get what you’re saying.

   2. No, you always need new players if every skill which is why you never assume someone will be great until they are !!

      1. Argh small fingers and bad proof reading,
         But always pick
         The best guy, which is why Baltimore doesn’t have buster posey !

2. Would like to see Tocci in AAA

   Would like to see an IF next opening day of Hoskins, Hernandez, Crawford, and Galvis

   1. The FO will absolutely make every effort to trade Cesar Hernandez this off season. He’s made himself a valuable 2b commodity. Kingery checks off ALL the boxes plus he’s much more marketable to a fan base starving for a heady, hustling, handsome kid they can root for. The organization loves him too. Simple as that.

      …and JP keeps rolling steadily along. If not opening day, they will continue to be keystone partners by Memorial Day.

      1. I don’t know, above-average major leaguers who are cheap and in their 20s seem like the kind of players the Phils need. I recognize CH is not perfect and the team has a ready replacement. I just do not think that moving CH should be a priority.

         If anything, moving Galvis makes more sense. He is not an above average major leaguer and there is a ready replacement for him. If Galvis’s value is misinterpreted by the market as it is by the media, the team should make every effort to trade him.

         1. I agree with you on Hernandez, you don’t get ride of a known top 2B for what you hope could turn into a good 2B. The odds of him out performing Hernandez is slim, like with most prospects. So why take that chance? Kingery’s ceiling isn’t THAT much higher that it’s worth the risk. You need to see what Kingery could fetch being in a package. Might be surprised that his trade value is actually higher than Cesar’s.

            As far as Crawford, I just can’t right now.

            1. If I were a betting man, Kingery would most definitely have a higher trade value than Cesar. He’s under control much longer, no arbitration for years, plus he’s shown all the baseball acumen as well as being able to reach the outfield fence on much less than 23 hops. If you package him in a trade, you better get an ELITE player in return. I wouldn’t demand an elite player in return for a package centered around Hernandez. Staying with Cesar is a less risky proposition. I’ve grown tired of the safe play by the FO thus far.

               At least Pete’s batting Rhys cleanup tonight. That’s a refreshing development. I hope he doesn’t crumble from the pressure (tongue in cheek).

            2. Why when I say the same thing. I Am called a guy who doesn’t understand. a guy on lives on a mountain. by that morn yesterday. amaze how little respect Cesar gets. Kingery might be great but he isn’t proven and Cesar is that’s the point.

               1. Bottom line of you can’t get value for Cesar you don’t trade quality player for nothing.

            3. Cesar has continued to hit, to the point where he’s almost at an .800 OPS. I’m extremely impressed with his performance this season. He has certainly upped his game. He’s making it more difficult for Kingery to match his performance.

            4. This is the same situation when Utley was ready to come up but there was Polanco in his way. Same with Howard and Thome. The Phils have not been winning with Galvis and Hernandez, so you have to take that chance.

         2. “He [Galvis] is not an above average major leaguer…” You are entitled to your opinion, but not to mistake your opinion for fact. Galvis is producing at a rate which would generate a season at 1.86 WAR. That’s about an average ML starter, which represents an above average player. All star? No – Top third of SSs? No – but above average ML (in my opinion that is, and the data suggest that my opinion has some factual foundation.). Does that mean I wouldn’t trade him? Of course not. Anybody can be traded – if the price is right. Would I seek to trade Altherr? No – but, to pick an absurd example to illustrate the point, I’d certainly trade him and any prospect for Trout.

3. If you thought Kingery was leading the Phillies farm teams in SBs, you’d be wrong. He has 27 SBs over the 2 leagues he’s played in. Zack Coppola has the distinction. He has 29 SBs over his 2 leagues he’s played in this year. In 3rd place is Luke Williams with 24. Williams is only hitting .223 and has a .272 OBP over his 97 games. Imagine how many he’d have if he was hitting .300? Coppola is hitting .300/.378 over his 105 games. Kingery is .307/.361 over 108 games.

   Thank the heaven’s above that Hoskins was promoted. If I had to read one more day’s discussion with 70% of it about how stupid or smart the Phillies management is, I’d tie myself to a pole in my backyard and wait for a bear to finish me off.

   1. Don’t know Bellman, are they smart to play him in LF and not at 1B? Pretty sure no other organization would do that 🙂 ..

      1. Funny. Last year it was physically painful for all of us watching a struggling Ryan Howard stand in ToJo’s way at 1b. This season we’re watching a second division Joseph stand in a higher upside Hoskins’ way. And for different reasons but if I could only understand why…

         1. Maybe last year they already knew that ToJo was a second division regular so there was no rush to expose him to other teams with the hopes that maybe someone would offer a trade deal for him. This year, they are a team in transition so there was no reason to hurry Hoskins to the show so they could let Joseph play it out and maybe get lucky that he outplays his ability.

            Obviously this is total speculation on my part but I’m amused by the posters here who somehow think the FO has no idea or plan for why they are doing.

            We can disagree with what they do but they are not stupid, clueless, etc.

            1. One of the hardest things about baseball is having the patience to let certain things play out. As many of the very insightful posters on this board discuss, things like small sample size can be really misleading. As players cycle through a league for the second time, adjustments are made. Sometimes the slightest mechanical change in a delivery or swing can change everything.

               The great benefit the Phillies have right now is time. They had time this year to see what Hoskins would do at AAA and what ToJo would do in Philly. Making a decision to trade one or the other last year would have been premature so I think they did the right thing. What this year has confirmed is that ToJo is not the answer going forward and Hoskins, while we don’t know that yet, he has done nothing but increase the likelihood that he is and the Phils should move on from ToJo. I’m sure they tried at the deadline and will try again in the offseason. By continuing to play him at least some, whatever trade value if any he has remains in place.

               As for the other IF positions, time is quickly running out but the patient approach with all 5 involved (Franco, Freddy, JPC, Cesar, and Kingery) has paid off this year as well. JPC needed the time in AAA and looks more ready every day. Kingery would not have been best served by being promoted this year and I believe he should not be called up this year. Franco has made every effort to prove that his full potential will not be realized and he may never be a good major league 3B. Galvis and Cesar have had strong years showing continued improvement and their trade value should both be higher than ever.

               Where to go from here on these other IFs? I’d call up JPC in September and would work him in at SS, play Freddy some at 2B and 3B as well as SS, and get a read on how JPC handles the big leagues. In the offseason, I’d definitely trade either Cesar or Franco and move Galvis to 2B or 3B to start the season. I’m not sure if the Phils think Kingery could be a long term option at 3B, but if he could then that expands the options. I’m not sure Cesar can play 3B, but I think Freddy can play anywhere. By June of next season, I would suspect that Kingery will be ready and only one of Freddy, Franco, and Cesar will be needed for an everyday role.

               1. It is going to get interesting, that is for sure. A lot of scenarios are on the board. Galvis complicates the matter with his gold glove defense. Without the added pop he has show the last season and half…. is say that Crawford recent surge would have got him promoted. Honestly, I’d check Galvis hard for “vitamins”. Suspicious but I’d double check to make sure the Fo makes the correct decision. CeHe to 3rd is interesting. As is leaving Hoskins in LF. A lot of internal musical chairs are possible … without even adding outside trades or FA. If CeHe could bring back a solid bullpen piece, I’d lean towards pulling the trigger, need some prospects on top of that, but that could be a helpful trade.

               2. I didn’t realize this, but the Bull’s first appearances were at 1B. Did he come up playing there? But he essentially moved from 1B to LF. He won a WS. Burrell moved from 1B to LF. He won a WS. Maybe this Hoskins move is not such a bad thing.

               3. Bull was drafted out of HS as a first baseman and thought he played there all thru the minors..

            2. A solid bullpen piece?!? If all you are getting is a solid bullpen piece for Hernandez well then you don’t deserve to be a GM.

      2. St Louis is doing it now with Adams .

         1. Adams is with Atlanta now, Tim.

            1. Yups, and his game was so bad that even the announcers commented that he’ll likely be traded this offseason. And Atlanta returned Freeman to 1B because he wasn’t hitting as well at 3B.

4. “One pitcher told me he had to choose between a SL and CB. He threw both, but they want him to concentrate on one. Interesting.”…that was also former MLB pitcher and pitching coach Joe Kerrigan’s s philosophy.
   His claim most pitchers when they try to do both only have two average pitches…concentrate and develop repeatable hand/wrist action on just one until you get that down pat.

5. I think it was smart to get Hoskins up even if it meant he has to play LF most days, its not the ideal spot for him but they & we want to see him hit in ML. He should easily get over 100 PA before season’s end so we can get an idea of how his bat translates to ML. I also think that promoting both Kingery and Crawford soon to get some experience is not a bad idea. Now that does have an impact on the 25 and 40 man rosters that does not need to be forced now and also means 2 players doing really good for the team sit a good bit over last several weeks in Hernandez and Galvis, but at this point I like the idea.

   1. I’m pretty sure you won’t see Kingery this year due to issues regarding the 40-man roster (he doesn’t need to be on it yet) and his service time (they won’t want to run the clock too soon). But next year, he could be here anytime from mid-April through the middle of the year. I actually believe he could benefit from a bit more time in AAA as I would like to see him work on his plate discipline a bit – but he’s very close to being ready.

      J.P. may get a look in September and, if he plays like this for the rest of August, he should get that look. Since the beginning of July he has played better than he ever has in the minor leagues. His start was so bad that the national press has almost written him off, but, if he plays like this through the rest of the year, he should be (but I’m pretty sure he won’t be) a top 25 prospect and right up there with Kingery and Sanchez in the discussion as to who the Phillies’ best prospect is right now.

      1. Wouldn’t be surprised if Kingery is brought up for look see in Sept, starts spring training and through his play there convinces FO that it is time he is the starter.

         1. Klentak is emphatic about rule V considerations when making the trades during the deadline. This shows that 40-man roster will be tight this coming offseason. Kingery may appear to be ready, but the Phils are not. It will be counterproductive for Kingery (and not favorable for the Phils service time wise) to bring up Kingery just for a cup of coffee.

            Stay back and wait how the offseason works. I’ve been in the Kingery bandwagon since he was drafted. To me, he is the future 2B. His time will come, not just this September.

            1. Reminds me of another prominent Phillies second baseman – in terms of being blocked. We would be blessed if he had even half the same career!

6. I have this gut feeling JPC & Scott K are going to be in LHV at least until 9/1, if not until end of LHV’s season. And I think I’m ok with that…

   1. JPC has to be placed on the 40 in Nov…so he will probably get the call up after the LHV season….Kingery, my guess, next May/June….but if Cesar is still in Philly in 2018, and still producing like he is doing now, who knows what will be their plan for Kingery next season.

7. Do they have to be put on 40 man roster to be brought up 9/1?

   1. Yes.

8. Comment from Brent Hershey, GM of Content @Baseball HQ, on Twitter last night at the LHV game:

   “JP Crawford looks so much better at the plate than when I last saw him in June. Hung in against tough LHP, drove 94 back up middle for 1B.”

   Encouraging stuff

9. How about a couple of our recent arm draftees huh? Spencer Howard settling in at Williamsport his last two starts, and Ethan Lindow with some encouraging results in GCL so far. Hopefully he adds some velocity as he fills out year to year, but nonetheless this is a good development.

10. Kingery will not be up this year. They don’t want to use up the 40 spot. Kingery will stay at AAA until Cesar is traded, whenever that is. Also, I fully expect Franco back at 3B next year. They can’t trade him now because his value is low, he’s not blocking anyone, and they still have time to find out if he might become a good player since they’re not winning anything next year. I don’t want to see any of the middle infield guys playing 3B, they just don’t have the bat for 3B.
    LHV will have to learn to win without Hoskins, Williams, Alfaro, Therrien, Pinto, Eflin, etc. Lots of guys have come up this year already. Who is left? JP?, Rios?, Lively again?,

    1. Franco’s value is only low if he gets better in the future. If he doesn’t improve, his value is highest now. He hasn’t done much to demonstrate he’s capable of learning.

       1. Even if his value is highest now, they’ll get near nothing for him. They’re much better off hoping there is an average regular for another season

          1. I will never understand why Mack or Matt did not decide to send Franco down in June to LHV, for 6 weeks or so. When the Marlins did it with Ozuna it sparked his resurgence, the Cardinals did not hesitate to do it with both Wong last year and Piscotty this year.
             Some teams do it and others prefer to have the player work their way thru it in the majors.
             I guess there are both pro and cons to that.

             1. Phillies would rather let the player work through his struggles with the big club. If they do send that player down, then that player is on shaky ground and not highly valued anymore.

                1. Perhaps that is what the Phillies FO thinks……but Marcell Ozuna and Kolten Wong ‘s values have not diminished, neither will Piscotty’s I would think

11. Playoff contention again in 2020-2021.

12. Saw Luis Carrasco’s debut (I think) for Lakewood, last night. Actually he didn’t pitch too badly. All hits were singles. I think half of them were seeing eye variety. The 2nd “earned” run was a ground ball that SS played in hole, between SS & 3rd, then threw into stands (tough play). Then Hallead came in & proceeded to walk bases loaded and throw WP to let in run. Carrasco was throwing FB about 90 – 91 until about 5th inning, then about 89. He was throwing an off speed pitch, around 78. Got some key K’s with runners in scoring position. Didn’t get raddled with men on. Rivera caught him & made a perfect throw to get lead off man @ 2nd in first inning (after B.B.), then Carrasco seemed to settle in. I’m thinking Rivera caught to provide Carrasc a familiar face, but Rivera showed a great arm & blocked a number of balls in the dirt. I was there with my wife, so my observations aren’t nearly as detailed as some I’ve read here in past, but thought I’d share, for what it’s worth.

    1. Phan – my thoughts (for what little they’re worth) 🙂
       Carrasco is a good pitcher but his stuff won’t translate to starting long term. I think he has a bullpen future. Saw him pitch all his Wmspt home games this year. Gregori Rivero is an overlooked catcher. Very good defensively as Phan saw. He’s about a .250 hitter. Needs more playing time to work on hitting but there always seems to be a better prospect blocking him, similar to Austin Bossart’s situation. Watching Hallead for two seasons now, I’m a bit surprised he’s still around. Maybe the Phillies see something I don’t.

       1. I sometimes wonder why they keep guys around like him ,Harold Martinez and a few others.

13. Thanks Phan

14. …and on the infield trade/callup situation. Murray is most likely correct. The Phillies will not call up Kingery this year because they don’t need to protect him in the Rule 5 Draft. He will, however most likely be the starting 2B next year. Hernandez (and ToJo too) will be traded in the offseason. As a proven (and very good) big leaguer CH has more trade value than Kingery, Some end-of-season time in the Show could change that, but again, Rule 5 and all that…. Right now Galvis has the better glove and the better BA. I look for JP to spend a few months in AAA again next season, hopefully get off to a good start and a promotion to the Show in June. Galvis will eventually fill Whitey’s super-sub role. I think Franco is around for another season and the Phils will be all in after 2018 on Machado. To trade him now, who do they replace him with? Galvis is ok for a game or two but not full time. Walding and Green have futures as Quad-A guys. Opening Day 2018 – Knapp, Hoskins, Kingery, Galvis, Franco, Williams, Herrera, Altherr. Infield bench guys will be free agent signings. Outfield extras are another FA and Quinn, if he isn’t injured – again. Quinn will eventually be traded while he still has some value because he’s never going to be a starter with his proclivity for injury. Cozens will get first call up if he can cut down the K’s and raise the BA.

15. Hate that Hoskins is throwing up the 0fer. This is why Joseph shouldn’t have been sat in Hoskins’ favor. Needs to prove himself IMO. Confident Hoskins will find his groove though

    1. I have always said that prospects are prospects, until they’re not. The minute they hit the big leagues, it doesn’t matter who you are, you have to produce to stay. Obviously way too early to tell on Hoskins. But you can see his patience, and he has a quick bat. But you can tell that he’s overthinking at the plate.

    2. Despite the .000 average, his OBP is .250, a glimpse @ best…

16. Kilome is an interesting prospect because of the high ceiling. Every team wants a superstar so upside is always valuable. I could see Phillies using him as trade bait if they think he will never get command to be a starter. Good to see him get some time at AA.
    Should be an active off season of trades for Phillies. I guess we will see.

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