155 thoughts on “Box Score Recap – 8/8/2017”

1. Arauz continues intriguing season. ERA under 2, WHIP under 1, and SO/9 almost 9, with a fb barely touching 90 makes litle sense unless his fb has a ton of movement or something.

2. I thought this would factor in on what some posters in here where talking about .it’s an interview with the Blue Craws hitting coach.http://www.phoulballz.com/2017/08/phoulballz-interview-lakewood-hitting.html

3. Arauz what ever he’s throwing nobodies hitting. Do you Klye Young leading his league in era . Nick Maton walked 3 times he’s been impressive. Liebrandt was Hammered but that was the first time he was hit in AAA.

   1. I’m wondering what it feels like to hit against a 7 footer? If he threw 95 mph, I don’t think I’d want to stand in the box or maybe even in the on deck circle. Luckily he doesn’t but he could get there as he strengthens himself. This guy is someone to watch… it would be best from the stands.

      1. Remember John Kruk’s famous All-Star at bat against Randy Johnson?

         1. Yeah its like that…..

            1. At least Kruk got off lightly compared to that pigeon.

      2. I’ve stood behind the cage while watching Kyle Young pitch, it’s pretty close at the Complex but even closer at the Jays complex. He has a compact (for a 7-footer), easily repeatable delivery. One thing I’ve noticed is that he doesn’t over-stride. I would have expected his step toward the plate to be longer than it is. I think that any velocity gain could come from a harder push off the rubber toward the plate, much the same as they did with Bailey Falter. And, his control is very good at this stage of his career. His out pitch is a slurve, curve ball speed with slider movement. It’s virtually unhittable at his first 2 levels. We’ll see going forward. Definitely an interesting pitcher to watch.

4. Wanted to make sure everyone saw this webgem by JP last night.

   There's good plays, there's great plays, and then there's @jp_crawford plays. pic.twitter.com/PJR6FgmYnD

   — IronPigs (@IronPigs) August 9, 2017

   1. But wait he can’t be that good defensively right? Twitter blew up with this play last night right after it happened…

      1. I think I posted yesterday I was all in on JP and I’ve been all in on him all season so this was good to see. Also his offense is not to shabby either

         L7 Days-304/429/1.168 OPS
         L28 Days-287/397/987 OPS
         L90 Days-262/371/858 OPS

         Yeahs that’s right chomp on that Eric LOL…JP is to Eric as Tocci is to V1

         1. DMAR…..JPC is reaffirming the Phillies’ ‘Jeter’ model.

         2. Completely with you DMAR. I haven’t wavered on JP.
            I liken it to McCutchen. After about a year plus of declining stats everyone was writing him off. I kept saying I have trouble believing that one of the best hitters in all baseball for the last 5 years suddenly forgot how to hit at age 30. Something clicked again and look at him now.
            I am NOT comparing JP to Cutch, and I know JP has 0 MLB hits, but my point is that top talent does not often just disappear. It can but it’s more likely that the talent will win out again. JP has a lot of talent and both scouts and box score watchers preached it for a long time.
            I hope the scouts who went so far as to start declaring him ‘below-average defensively’ were enjoying their crow as twitter blew up last night.

            1. McCutchen is an interesting player. He seems set in his ways. His decline last year coincided with him being moved to the number two hole and he pouted. This year they moved him to Leftfield and he pouted again and started the year horribly until he got moved back to center with Marte’s suspension. Granted he usually starts the year slowly. His other problem is he is such an awful fielder in CF that he gives away almost all the value his bat generates.

   2. Another example of what Crawford does that won’t show up in a box score or slash line. Special!

      1. The people who called JPC a bust seem to have gone back in the weeds LOL

      2. does he have greater range than Freddy? kind of seems like he does but havent seen enough to be sure.

5. I would love to see Kyle Young get a few starts at Lakewood. He’s dominating Wsport. Also, it’s about time Garcia gets back to Reading for a few starts. It was a lost season for him.

6. Good to see Ben Brown had an excellent outing.
   Perhaps the the third pitching HS gem from the New York/Long Island area following Fanti and Young.

   1. Brown is real young must have some good upside. Nice pitching by him yesterday

      1. The ‘o’ is back!!!

7. Fitch my new prospect crush is kicking a$$ AND chewing bubble gum like it was a day on the farm

   1. Lol love it

      There was a time when Phillies had zero catching prospects
      Now they’re saying, look at me now

      1. I remember a time (when I first started following this site) when the only player in our minor leagues who hit 20 or more homeruns was in his mid 30’s. This year we will have at least six players who hit 20 HR and could have as many as eight. Not that homeruns are the best measure of a prospect but more is better than less.

8. I Personally never knew that Crawford had that kind of arm. Heard he had great range, but the arm on that play was impressive.

   1. rocco…keep one eye on OFer Ben Pelletier…good size and good bat for a soon to be 19-year old. Drafted two years ago…maybe the youngest player ever drafted by the Phillies in the Rule 4. Could be a real find in the 34th round.

      1. I remember you were on this kid earlier. You thought he might be something, He is right now doing great imo

9. One play doesn’t make a player great. Great play tho. And the steal of last years draft just keeps dealing!

   Random question for the Crawford believers . . . Would you say that C. Hernandez is pretty much the ceiling for Crawford offensively w maybe a tad bit more power (at least according to scouting reports)? Seems to me like that would be his ceiling. And nothing wrong with that, just think he’s gonna be a lot less.

   1. Crawford’s ability to get on base plus the better power I think put his ceiling a bit higher than Hernandez offensively. I would say Crawford’s ceiling is wRC+ of 125-130. Hernandez is a wRC+ of 110. That is not to say Crawford will be a better player than Hernandez. We are comparing ceiling to a known quantity.

      1. What Cesar is doing right now with the bat is impressive. To compare, Rollins only had 4 years with an OPS above Cesar’s .783. Of course, Rollins had great D so that added to his value. If JP can get .760 OPS with half the D of Rollins, he”ll be close to a 4 WAR player.

         1. Rollins also had a lot more value on the base paths than Hernandez or Crawford will ever get.

            1. I have to agree here. JRoll was running wild his whole career. 470 SBs is a lot. Don’t know how fast JP is, but if he can get to even a 3rd of that total…

   2. Cesar might hit with better ave but JPC will have a better OBP, SLG and OPS. I think JPC > Cesar as a hitter.

      So if you combine Cesar and Galvis into 1 player and adjust the offensive and defensive bar just slight lower – that’s can be JPC’s expected ceiling which is now superstar SS level but should be in the upper half of the league.

      1. You’re talking about a 5 WAR player. If he’s able to sustain that, JP would become the best SS in Phillies history. I’m realistic though, odds are long for him to do that.

   3. I would say his offensive ceiling is higher than Freddy Galvis which is what we are really talking about. Doesn’t matter if his ceiling his higher/lower than someone he’s not going to replace.

10. I was in Staten Island last night to watch W-Port. Some quick notes on a few prospects:

    Kyle Young

    Young was quite impressive, considering he doesn’t have a plus pitch. His fastball sat between 89-91. His change up was his best pitch. His curve didn’t have much bite, but he knew when to throw it. Put simply, this kid knows how to change speeds, change eye levels, repeat his delivery consistently and he is incredibly unpredictable. I like how he threw all three pitches in different counts. The kid knows how to get by on the mound. The best case scenario is a lefty swing man, or a number five starter. I’d bet on the former, though. Some think he will maximize velocity into the mid 90’s, but I doubt it. There’s not much room for growth with his frame. Think a lefty Tom Eshelman, when watching Young.

    Jhailyn Ortiz

    I know he’s young, but I’m cautiously worried. The kid cannot hit a curve to save his life. If he can learn to lay off the junk, he can be very good. He was a free swinger and he went to the plate with absolutely no plan. It just seemed like he was looking breaking ball and not fastball. He ate right out of the pitcher’s (Guzman) hand. On a side note, he can run like a deer for someone his size. This kid is a big donkey. I’m sure he’ll figure it out, but right now it doesn’t look good.

    Greg Pickett

    Don’t sleep on this fella. He hit a shot last night that hasn’t landed yet. Granted it’s taken him almost 3 years to reach this league (injured all of 2016), but he has some helium. I loved his plate coverage, smooth swing and overall approach. At first base, he made some amazing plays. I would not be shocked if he wound up in a Brock Stassi-like category.

    Cole Stobbe

    I liked his short; compact swing. He made some decent contact, but his pitch recognition was raw. He didn’t swing at too many bad pitches, as his K numbers would say otherwise. In the field, this kid has a rocket arm at short with great range. There was a play deep in the hole that he played back on and made it look close on the throw. He’s way too athletic to only be hitting under the Mendoza line. I have faith he’ll come around.

    Adam Haseley

    I’m sure you remember my draft posts on this cat, as I successfully predicted Haseley as the 8th overall selection. True to form, this kid is the real deal. Granted he’s far advanced for this level, but I loved his approach, swing, plate coverage, pitch recognition and discipline. Both of his hits last night, were to the opposite field. If I had to place a comp (I hate doing these), give me a future Brett Gardner.

    1. Not sure I quite understand your statement on Young….’there’s not much room for growth with his frame’.
       Is that in reference to him gaining velocity?
       There are some rather tall lanky lefties that never really have any growth in ‘bulk’ which is what I think you may mean, but are able to maintain higher velo
       Jake Diekman comes to mind when he increased his velo 4 years ago.

       1. Yes, in reference to velocity. There’s no way he’s going to gain much on that heater.

          1. “There’s no way” – very conclusive but sounds more like premature conclusion. i haven’t seen Kyle Young yet, but I’ve been reading and hearing that his delivery is clean and consistent. i don’t normally go against science, if Kyle Young continues to develop (which I’m assuming he will) that clean delivery and his physicality will mature normally as he age, that physical mature + speed (improved delivery) will result to some kind of energy (velocity).

             Injury put aside (knock on wood), if Kyle Young’s FB remained flat at 89-91 5-10 years from now it is most likely Kyle Young preferred command over velocity on his FB.

             1. His mechanics were really impressive, but there’s just no way he can generate more velocity with his current frame. He’s not like Chris Sale where there’s a boat load of movement. This guy is a smart pitcher for sure and he did all of the positive things you look for: change eye levels, throw different pitches in different counts, etc. I’m simply implying that a jump in velo is very unlikely. His stuff was good enough to get by, but hopefully his approach plays well against more advanced competition. That Staten Island club outside of Wilkerman Garcia was awful to watch.

                1. that has been my point. if the mechanics is impressive, power will come as part of natural maturity. that’s science. in most sports that i’ve been involved whether is boxing, martial arts, baseball – the the early focus has been technique (mechanics) – fluidity in techniques turned into speed and speed with proper techniques results to power (which is velocity in this case).

                   unless Kyle Young will go into a diet that will not develop mass, his natural physical maturity and clean mechanics will result to power naturally. Teams had therapists, psychiatrist, nutritionist, etc in their player development program and it will be remiss of their responsibilities for the nutritionist not to tap into the physical projection.

                   Genetics between Tocci and Young are different so I don’t want to hear a possible Tocci analogy.

                   I’m not saying whose correct and not but I’m just commenting on the premature conclusion.

          2. Young might be the rare guy who get away with sitting at 90. I haven’t seen him pitch, but a 7 footer’s release point has a chance to be closer to home plate, which would add a few MPH to his perceived velocity. Ben Lindbergh wrote a good article a fews years ago on this. I won’t link it because it now redirects to an ad site.

             Anyway, the Phils did a great job getting him in round 22. Just finding anyone who could be a legit prospect at that spot is a win.

             1. Even with a better nutritional program, mechanics are everything. How many pitchers only sit 90-93 and they’re physical specimen? Plenty. How much in velocity do you honestly think Young can accrue? He has a different body type than most and in his current mechanics, I’m simply stating that an uptick in velocity is not achievable. The ball does not explode out of his hand. It’s just not there. There’s no need for him to gain it, either. Look at Tom Glavine, for instance. All Young needs to do is keep being Young and he’ll be fine. Pitch to contact, have a plan and trust your defense.

                1. I wasn’t saying he will add velocity. He could, but I have no idea if he will. I was saying that because of his height, his 90 MPH fastball could look 92-93.

                2. kyle young in around 200 lbs right now and it’s reasonable to assume that he will around 10-15 lbs in the next 5-10 years. that extra lbs will carry in the ball as kyle young does his wind up and that will result to extra mph considering it will be thrown in a steeper downward plane.

                   i agree with you that kyle young may not want to alter her mechanics to keep the control/command of his pitches. if kyle young is 24/25 yo, probably i don’t expect any velocity anymore. but at 19 yo and growing.

                   at the current trend, kyle young FB can project to sit in 91-93 and possible 94/95 if he dials back. i think that extra 2 mph is achievable without altering the mechanics.

          3. John, thanks for your input on this site. I appreciate it!

             I agree with some others that “no way he’s going to gain [velocity]” might be a bit premature for a 19-year-old. Or at least it is probably too definitive. While it makes sense that a lot of guys reach their max velocity fairly early, there are examples of players gaining velocity as they age.

             Perhaps you are arguing that velo gains mainly come from better mechanics, and his cannot be improved?

    2. I think it was you john who turned me onto Jake Burger…Dat Dude is in the Sally doing some good things for the White Sox right now. Power hasn’t shown yet but 8 walks to 11 K’s is a really good sign. Just sayin…

       He’s having trouble in the field though

       1. Burger is going to wind up at 1st eventually, but yeah man…that dude can rake

    3. I worry about Stobbe. Being drafted to play 3b by the Phillies in the third round seems to be the kiss of death: see Green, Zack and Hernandez, Jan.

       1. I’m not too worried about Stobbe. History is against him, but it’s way too early in the game. He’s still developing and he’s way more athletic than the ones you mentioned

       2. And Lucas Williams

          1. Sandberg and Aaron Brown are 3 rds also who may not see the majors by the time their careers are over. Morgan and Rupp are also 3rds but older when drafted.

             1. I thought they were 4th rounders. Cord has started to hit in Reading, and he still is only 22.

          2. Stobbe is also more athletic than him lol

    4. Wow pretty negative comps for some of our better regarded prospects. Eschellman,Stassi and Gardner!

       1. I wouldn’t say they’re negative, just realistic. Young was a 20th rounder after all, Stassi was a 33rd rounder and you wouldn’t be elated if Haseley becomes Brett Gardner in his prime? I’d say these comps are compliments.

          1. The problem is Gardner in his prime got his value from elite defense and 45+ stolen bases. This is why I think the Gardner comp is not a particularly good one.

             1. Exactly Aron but honestly I think Haseley has a higher ceiling than Gardner and maybe something closer to an 850 OPS player. How about a Charlie Blackmon ceiling with a Gardner floor.

          2. A Brett Gardner at 1.7?? Day 1 (Rd 1 and 2) of Rule 4 draft is an opportunity for teams to find a potential future cornerstone. If FO should be happy finding a Brett Gardner at 1.7 that’s aiming too low. Any teams can spend Rd3 to Rd 40 to find their army of Brett Gardner if they want, but a prime Brett Gardner is not even a Top 50 in MLB.

             Being realistic and setting your standards too low are now the same.

             1. Brett Gardner has had a better career than 48 of the 51 guys drafted at #7:

                https://www.baseball-reference.com/draft/?overall_pick=7&draft_type=junreg&query_type=overall_pick&from_type_jc=0&from_type_hs=0&from_type_4y=0&from_type_unk=0

                1. the failure of those 48 guys lies in the GM and various factors. I will aim to acquire a potential superstar for my Top 10. i know it’s hard to predict, but that’s not a reason to set your bar low.

                2. @ KuKo, I don’t think any of those GMs are going around saying I want Brett Gardner at #7. But I think you’re underestimating how hard it is to even find a 3 WAR player in the draft. Let’s put it this way, if the Phillies found one 3 WAR player in every draft the last 5 years, we would be a playoff team right now.

                3. @Guru – i understand the challenge landing a really good MLB player. that’s why i don’t waste that opportunity when drafting my 1st and 2nd pick in Rule 4. BPA and any player with the highest ceiling (considering the risk).

                4. @KuKo, you swing for the fences and you’ll strike out a lot. Rare that you’ll hit on multiple elite players in a decade. Then you’ll end up like the Angels: one great player and a bunch of role players. That’ll get you a mediocre team. It’s not the worst thing in the world to play it safe. I mean, wasn’t Nola a safe pick?

       2. Gardner has had a very good career, and like everybody else lately his power numbers have jumped up.

    5. John – what is your basis for Young not gaining velocity? Interested in your credentials.

       1. There’s no extra movement in his delivery. It’s too simple. Maybe he gets to 93, but throwing heat is not Young’s game. This kid is a corner surgeon. He’s going to pitch to contact and do his thing.

          1. Sort of like a tall version of a Dallas Keuchel.

             1. That would be quite awesome.

          2. @john – this is where i will agree with you although I can still see a jump of velo by 1-2mph when all said and done unlike your conclusion of “no way”.

             kyle young might be an equal to the “stretch-big” in the NBA. a big fellow who is more comfortable painting the corner than throw heat. kyle young will also have an extra advantage of throwing on a steeper downward plane.

          3. fair enough – thank you, John.

    6. I dont understand how you can speak in definite terms. Im no expert but i do know that males gain natural strength with age. He CAN add as he get physically stronger. Pitchers do it all the time.

11. Brett Gardner? A lousy stinking Brett Gardner…that’s it.

    1. DMAR….Gardner’s later years he has up’d his power numbers.

       1. Look it you Romus coming up with my silver lining…Nice player if you’re getting him in the 3rd round perhaps

          1. DMAR….come on now….you are letting your anti-Yankee bias seep thru! 🙂
             Physically Haseley is bigger than Gardner, so he could generate a higher ISO early on, however Haseley will never have Gardner’s speed or OF range..

    2. Brett Gardner is a solid player. Not elite, but we’re talking about a player who has averaged 3 WAR for 10 years. A very impressive feat.

       1. Guru…uh oh…..you brought up WAR! 🙂

          1. Haha, I know. Once upon a time, I didn’t believe in WAR and age-appropriate. But I’ve come around to the dark side!

             1. Exactly. If Haseley turns into Gardner, that’s a win.

                1. and speaking of Haseley – he just entered MLB Top 100 at #99. Phils now have 7 prospects in Top 100 but mostly in the bottom half.

                   i’m normally not greedy, but I’ll take Romus pill. Haseley will be better than Gardner. He might be the piece to get Mike Trout!! Lol!

          2. i’m always tempted to believe in WAR because it’s so easy to use but i don’t want to think lazy because baseball is more involved compared to the other sports.

             i still use WAR at least to narrow down the categories (i.e. year) that i’m trying to look at but not try use it in comparing players.

12. That was Maton at SS at Williamsport last night, not Stobbe. I like Maton. Reminds me of a bigger left handed version of Kevin Sefcik.

    Young can throw strikes all day. He topped out at 91 according to the scoreboard gun although the scoreboard gun was turned off half the time. He was routinely throwing 89-90. I also doubt he ever reaches the mid 90’s and his curve needs work but Staten island was clueless against him. He pitches like a major league veteran the way he changes speeds and locates the ball.

    Guzman the SI pitcher reached 102 a few times and was pretty routinely hitting 100. I believe the Yankees got him in the Brian McCann trade.

    I’ll be at the next two games. Greatest view in baseball is sitting in the SI stadium and seeing Lower Manhattan.

    1. Very true. Stobbe did play 3rd, but he’s listed as SS.

       Guzman was electric, but he was much better in the last start I saw him. He whiffed 8 batters and it was an off day for him…lol

       1. When you talk about real “lottery tickets” you are talking about a kid like Guzman. Throws 100 with ease. To get a young kid like that in a trade is an eye opener.

          1. No bones about it!

          2. What deal?

13. I’d like to see Haseley get a taste of Clearwater before his season ends.

    1. No doubt he starts the year there, as Mickey will repeat the Sally

       1. 1:1 pick repeating a league is NO BUENO no matter how commenters on here try to spin it

          1. yeah, not good in micro level but it might be the challenge that Moniak need to unlock himself. i’m not sure if coaching is a factor, but any concerns need to be addressed sooner than later.

          2. yes we get it, you don’t like Moniak and you only comment on here when it pertains to his “failure”

             1. I like mickey moniak.

                But he’s been extremely disappointing

                I hope he turns it around and shows that he can be at least an average offensive player in the SAL next year

                1. I would aim a bit higher, he’s at 92 WRC+ this year

          3. There’s repeating a league and then there’s starting the season in the same league. We’ll see where he ends up come July of 2018…

       2. If he does repeat (and I too am pretty sure he will) will MM be our first 1st round pick to repeat a level in some time? I’d be talking about where each started a season and not finished it.

          1. Anthony Hewitt? Larry Greene was later.

          2. To no one in particular, but to everyone who is commenting on Mickey Moniak in this thread,

             A reader stating, “Mickey will repeat the Sally” in no way makes it so. A repeat of a level will be decided by Joe Jordan and his player development staff. Until the “wanna be GMs” and “pseudo scouts” who comment here become members of the Phillies’ organization, remember that ALL comments here are just somebody’s opinion. And the guy who made that comment today had Cole Stobbe making a play in the hole that was actually made by Nick Maton. So take each others comments with a grain of salt.

             1. Jim just curios what are your early thoughts on Stobbe? ty

14. Darick Hall …three more dingers and sets the Lakewood record for HRs, breaking Jose Pujols’ mark of 24, set from last year.

    1. I wonder where Hall fits. Matt Rizzotti or Darin Ruf ^_^

       1. That could be the case.
          Then there also may be Kyle Martin eventually added to that list..
          Both Ruf and Martin were 4-year college guys, so that age factor comes into play.
          Rizz….Manhattan College does not really play in any power house conference.
          Hall, aslso, but he played down there in Texas in a conference that was not the SEC/ACC or PAC12…but did have some legitimate baseball talent.
          But I can see Hall more or less in the mold of a Ryan Howard.
          have to see how he handles secondary stuff once he gets to AA…but his splits already vs LHP are not bad at all.

          1. i agree with you Romus – age and competition favors Darick Hall. but like what i’ve been saying before, i normally withhold judgment on prospects until they reach high minors. For now, Darick Hall is a category ahead of Mizzotti and Ruf but behind Howard.

          2. Hall’s not bad. The age factor (still in “age 21” season) is helpful and the power seems real. I had hoped he would have walked a little more this season.

       2. He can’t he’s left-handed.

15. Any idea when Kilome will start for Reading? I’ll be in beautiful Altoona, PA for tonight’s Reading game

    1. Could be tomorrow as he’s been going every 6th day on average

    2. people live in Altoona??

    3. reading has irving, anderson and waguespack listed on their site for the next 3 games.

    4. I was going to say Thursday since he last pitched on Friday for the Threshers. I checked the Reading site and Elniery Garcia is pitching tonight, Kilome is pitching tomorrow, Cole Irvin on Friday, Jake Waguespack on Saturday, and Drew Anderson on Sunday.

       1. either i need to be drug tested or they changed the reading site between the time i looked and the time you looked. yes, has to be the latter.

16. Hypothetical question, let’s say the Phils commit to JPC and Kingery as their long term middle IF combo. If you had to pick just 1 internal option for 3B from Franco, Galvis, or Cesar, who would everyone choose?

    1. I’ll play the game. Cesar is out because I don’t think his arm is strong enough. I’ll go with Freddy solely for the defense. I mean, we had Pedro Feliz at 3B for 2 years…

       1. but you had other guys to carry the lineup; i can’t put freddy at third based upon the rest of this current lineup.

          1. True but both can play GG Defense at 3rd.

    2. I choose Machado

       1. Nice….

17. The next Phils third baseman will come via free agency. If you can get a viable trade package for Franco in the offseason, he should be a goner.

    1. Mike Moustakas is on pace for nearly 50 HRs this season. Granted he doesn’t walk much (AT ALL) but for that kind of power at CBP, who cares? I’d offer 5 yrs for $115M with an option year, possibly an opt out year as well. I think he’d be a better value than the other MM. I’m just hoping Franco ends the season on a high note to boost his trade value which right now is squatta…

18. Brett Gardner will likely finish his career with close to 40 WAR (he’s at 33.3 right now). Apparently there’s an army of those guys available between rounds 3 and 40. Who knew the draft was so easy?

    How many Phillies position players this century have or will have 40 WAR for their career?

    Thome: 72.9
    Rolen: 70.0
    Kenny Lofton: 68.2
    Chase: 65.1 and counting
    Abreu: 59.9
    JRoll: 46.0
    Polanco: 41.3

    I think that’s it. And Odubel (currently 10.6) has a shot — he needs about 10 more years at his current production level!

    If Adam Haseley puts up 30-40 WAR in his career the Phillies will be thrilled and he will have been a great draft pick. Otero nailed it — although Haseley was the 8th pick overall, not 7th. How many 8th picks have put up Brett Garner’s current career WAR of 33.3?

    Todd Helton: 61.2
    Jay Bell: 36.9

    That’s it! Two!! Out of 53!! Although in fairness Franisco Lindor will probably get there.

    1. I agree 100%. It’s hard to find even a player like Brett Gardner in the draft in any given year.

       Rolen has 70 WAR? Dammit, if that guy had thicker skin, he could have retired a Philly legend.

       1. Guru…Rolen has a higher WAR than Chase?
          Whoa….. now that is a surprise.

          1. Rolen was a starter in his 22 year season. Utley wasn’t a starter until half way through his 25 year season. Utley’s peek was higher but Rolen’s was longer. I always thought the organization and the fans treated Rolen shabbily. They seemed to hate anyone who played thirdbase who wasn’t named Schmidt.

             1. Don’t forget that Rolen was a multiple time gold glover.

                If you play in Philly, eventually you’re going to get ripped by people and the media. Rollins has gotten ripped, Howard has gotten ripped, they all have. But I think what led to Rolen asking for a trade was when Dallas Green ripped him. Not sure about what, but Rolen wasn’t happy. Could you imagine how the Phillies franchise could have changed if he decided to stay? He has had a HOF type career.

                1. Rollin brought on himself with his attitude towards philly fans. He was a creep. I

                2. Interestingly Rolen has a dWAR of 20.6 in 2038 career games. Utley has a dWAR of 17.7 in 1811 career games. Utley was always an underrated fielder. He also didn’t help his reputation by getting the yips in two consecutive post-seasons.

                3. rocco……he was different, he was intelligent, he liked to to read…not sure he was a real creep.
                   But what started to bother him and the pain, was his back.
                   And playing on the hard Vet stadium surface…….Dallas Green may have thought if it was good for everybody else, then why not him.
                   Plus , I think I also recall Rolen wanting Ed Wade to do more to acquire better players and build a better team.

    2. Asher vs Eshellmann at LV tonight.

    3. Also in fairness I don’t think you should be looking at only the 8th pick in each draft. You have to look not only at 8 but every pick after that because if you got 40 at 8 and the team at 10 got 50-60-70 somebody goofed.

       And with all do respect to Brett Gardner I don’t think of him and think wow there is a great player.

       1. DMAR….but those type OFers, specically CFers help teams win championships…..you know the type….the Damons, the Ellsburys,the Herreras. et al 🙂

       2. DMAR….perhaps a draft oddity….the 668th pick (21st Rd) in the 2012 draft by the Phillies….could end up eventually having the highest MLB WAR of any of the Phillies drafted that year…..RHP Drew Anderson

          1. Might be. Maybe Pullin? Or it might end up being Kyle Cody (30th round pick that year). https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=cody–000kyl

             1. Him also…..though was just looking at Phillies property now.
                Cozens will also have his shot for sure.

                1. If cozens with that power realizes .That he can hit the ball out without trying to kill it ,might help his swing. and cut down strikeouts.

          2. That would be weird. In any event you guys go ahead with your WARs I’ll continue watching as many games as I can get in.

             1. DMAR…..:)

       3. He’s not elite, but he’s a very good player. I believe the only players on the 2008 WS Phillies that have more career WAR than Gardner are Utley, Rollins, Hamels, Moyer. That’s it.

19. In reality these players are counting trophies, awards, $$ and world series rings – same thing with the owners and executives. they don’t give relevance to their accumulated WAR. i haven’t seen any FOs talked about WAR when discussing their key success factors. Anaytics team and infrastructure, yes.

    As David Grabinet said that some stats are there only to hold the interest of the (mostly statistically illiterate) television audience. No surprise that Brian Kenny, Jayson Stark and alike are the ones talking about it.

20. Fangraphs chat today:
    Hoskins getting the call-up tomorrow?
    12:06
    Lew Alcindor: Does Rhys Hoskins have anything at all left to prove at AAA? Or are the Phils just not being smart?
    12:07
    Dave Cameron: They’re trying him in left field, and rumor is he’ll be up tomorrow for the start of their series with the Mets. I personally wouldn’t bother with the left field experiment, since Tommy Joseph isn’t worth playing, but they are a little short on outfielders right now, so it isn’t the end of the world in a season where wins and losses don’t matter.

    1. Romus,

       Apparently he isn’t reading PhuturePhillies, otherwise he’d know that losses are very important to winning the 1:1 race. LOL

21. I apologize in advance I’m sure this has been answered some where before but why is Jorge Alfaro out of options after this season? He was called up last year and this year & never played in the majors for Texas. What am I missing?

    1. He’s been on the 40 man roster, I believe, for at least 3 years now. He must be on the major league roster opening day 2018 or subject to the waiver wire.

    2. yes, Alfaro is out of option starting next year. He was added in TEX in their 40-man in 2015 season and optioned him to Frisco (Option #1). Then the Phils used Options #2 and #3 in 2016 and 2017.

       1. oh OK thank you. I thought options only counted when you being called to the majors.

          1. Once a player is put on the 40-man roster, the option countdown begins. A player is assigned 3 options as a (40-man) rostered player. Each year, when a player who is on the 40-man roster gets sent to the Minor Leagues for a stint of more than 20 days, it counts as an option.

             1. Thank you. One last thing. September call ups count towards options too correct? If they do I don’t see any reason to put Crawford or Kingrey on the 40 man this season.

                1. the option (and service) clock starts when a player was added in the 40-man. If both JPC and Kingery will be added, the Phils cannot take them out of the 40-man unless they burn an option or DFA. Cesar and Galvis are still around so there’s a high probability that the Phils will option both JPC and Kingery, thus Option #1.

                   JPC is fine since he will be added since he is due for protection or take a risk in Rule V. Kingery can be delay it for a year which what the Phils will do unless an opening for Kingery to start (Cesar is traded).

22. How the Park Factor may affect Darick Hall @Lakewood:
    Darick Hall..home /away splits:

    Home-48 games…239/305/420….7 HRs
    Away-38 games…298/368/635…15HRs

    1. Away…is also 48 games.

       1. Funny though he gave a league a 3 wk start . He still leads the league in home runs and RBIs.

          1. Correct…..his overall numbers would be astronomical, if Lakewood wasn’t the lowest rated hitters park in the SALLY.
             Next season in Clearwater and the FSL, it will be really interesting to see what he does.

23. Wouldn’t it have made sense for the Phillies to sign a veteran catcher instead of calling up Alfaro this year? I believe they currently have an open spot or 2 on the 40 man. If not they could’ve easily just cut Kim to free up a spot. Wouldn’t that have allowed Alfaro to have stayed in the minors for all of next season or until they thought he was ready or would he need to be on the 25 man roster regardless.

    1. pb111…Alfaro has no more options….one way or the other he has to be on the big club’s 25 next year…..or he has to be DFA and cleared thru the waiver wire.

24. What happened to Edgar Garcia?
    DL-7 days???

25. Crawford, Hoskins and Kingery all hit home runs tonight. Very good at lines for some prospects, others, not so much (Dylan Cozens, 0-4)

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