107 thoughts on “Box Score Recap – 8/2/2017”

1. I’m a little confused (doesn’t take much) but why does baseball ref have Tommy B as having 35.1 innings at Reading this year . . . is that a mistake? If it is a mistake i’m assuming thats where the guy who mentioned “whiplash” got his info from. Baseball Ref has Tommy Bergjans struggling in AA with the long ball and giving up a ton of hits.

   1. yes, he’s been in AA, it’s just been forgettable.

      1. Yeah I was confused by him making his debut and Jim saying what he did to the poster in yesterdays box score.

         1. I have watched him several times this year so, I don’t think that was his debut. 1-5 record with 12 HRs and 7.xx ERA. Something isn’t right there. I think 11 BBs to 28 K’s.

            1. I don’t think you were the Jim he was speaking of.

   2. Just like stirring the pot, Eric?

      1. Really? I’ve been posting on here for at least 5 years now and have never been accused of that, stop it. Seriously. It was a legit question . . .

         1. misunderstood, my apologies bud

2. I had a dream… my fellow Americans… that I woke up this morning and Carlos Tocci weighed 185 pounds. Is that too much to ask for or dream about?

   Tommy Bergjans has given up 15 ERs in his last 11 innings. The rest of the season is only slightly better. It’s tough to send him out every 5th day and say we need 10 runs or more to win this game. I know Reading wants a guy who can give them innings… even if their run filled innings.

   1. i have a dream that i woke up this morning and rhys hoskins was in the major leagues.

      1. Seriously, the Phils are seriously the worst run org in baseball, I’m absolutely convinced of it. The fact this guy isn’t in the majors is an absolute joke.

         1. Fans in Miami, San Diego, Anaheim and Cincinnati may differ. But yes, especially at age 24, Hoskins should be up by now.

            1. Their favorite organization drafted Mike Trout, easily the best player of today’s MLB, with the 25th pick… maybe that was when it was run by someone else?

               1. Jeff, the Phillies never got a chance to draft Mike Trout as they drafted last in 2009 as they won the WS in 2008.

               2. I know the Phillies couldn’t draft him, but 20 or so other teams could have… the angels made a good pick

            2. Yeah, good point. They’re on par in terms of horrible run franchises. I’ve been a life long Phillies fan, but it’s really getting harder and harder to root for this team.

               1. When I hear that from fans, my thoughts are, go root for another team. Through the bad and then the good, my thoughts on the Phillies never wavered. I hate hearing, it’s getting hard to root for this team. Almost has a bandwagon ring to it.

               2. Matt, Rhys Hoskins is in his first year of AAA and went to college. He will be up this year unless Allentown is in the IL playoffs.

         2. You need to relax and have some perspective. Take a look at Kris Bryant’s minor league stats and tell me why he stayed 2 years in the minors.

            1. Besides, they Phillies only promote players after the turn 25, or so I’ve been told by some on this site..

               1. Like Nick Williams or Maikal Franco?

      2. 🖒

      3. Shouldn’t we be celebrating him being the organization’s single-season AAA home run record holder?!?!?! That’s really not a distinction a player wants to have, or that a legit prospect should have. And the frustration mounts….

   2. bellman1…………………..could you tell in that dream if Tocci had two bricks in his pockets?

      1. As you mention this, I remember, in the dream, Tocci being taller. Wait… he was standing on 2 cinder blocks on the scale. Crap!

   3. I had a dream that I woke up and weighed 185 pounds myself. Unfortunately that would require me to lose 45 pounds

3. Thanks for posting the inherited runners stats. I’m amazed that more attention isn’t given to that since IMO that’s really vital for a successful reliever.

   1. jeffo,

      Agree. Inherited runners ought to be a main stat for relief pitchers.

4. No other organization would keep a prospect in the minors like Hoskins. Instead, we get to keep watching them send out Tojo everyday.

   1. Hang on Goose I’m gonna buzz the tower for you…

      1. Nice “Top Gun” reference!

      2. 👍👍👍

   2. Well, maybe not “no other organization.” See Jake Cave and Billy McKinney at Scranton Wilkes-Barre. But the Yankees have blocking talent in their outfield. If the Phils were contending, I could understand the Phils’ 1B situation better.

      1. agree on it being different if phils were contending, but McKinney has had a very mediocre minor league career outside of spring training this year and a great first month in AAA, while Cave is having his first really good minor league season.
         i read somewhere before the deadline speculation that one or both could be dealt because they would have to be on 40 man after the season.wait, found it
         http://nypost.com/2017/07/29/yankees-may-try-to-flip-young-outfielders-over-roster-crunch/

         1. Cave has already been a Rule 5 ‘rebate’ player…Reds in 2015.
            Not sure how shiny his luster is anymore.

            1. If it weren’t for someone like Shane Victorino, I would tend to agree. Sometimes teams don’t know what they have in the Rule 5. Cave is 24 which is not old for AAA.

         2. McKinney, a former 1st round pick, is 22 years old and tearing it up in AAA. If you have criteria for “a very mediocre minor league career”, I don’t understand what they are. No one his age in the entire Philly system is outperforming him. People would be wetting themselves if we had a prospect his age hitting like that in AAA.

5. What has been impressive is that each week I read these posts is the amount of pitchers listed with quality starts. Its becoming common place they go 5 plus innings allowing 0, 1, 2, or 3 hits. For the minors it has been a fun year.

6. What’s the deal with Alastre? Another Tocci body type? He sure seems to get hits.

7. With 31 games left for the Threshers, Randolph has about 120 more BAs left in his bat, if he stays healthy, like to see him get to 15HRs before the season’s end.
   Would look that much nicer when it comes to talk of any power in his bat, that seem to be one of his most talked about liabilities as a corner OFer,,before this season began..

   1. I don’t know if it means anything or if it is just a statistical quirk, but does it seem that a high amount of his extra base hits are homers. I seem to recall that “home run” power tends to develop as a player matures a bit (or when he gets to Reading) and that guys tend to hit more doubles in the lower levels.

      The likely scenario is that I am thinking about it too much and should find something else to obsess over. 🙂

      Jeff

      1. jeffo…..probably the best way of looking at the ‘power’ aspect of a player’s game is his SLG percentage….which incorporates the doubles (2x) and triples (3x) , beside the multiple four factor for the HR…..though triples can be looked at by most as a factor of speed vs power.
         The other thing to look at is their isolated power metric…ISO measures pure raw power.
         Hoskins has been over .250 for his entire minor league career….which is really a special power hitter and he has the other hit tools also incorporated in his game…

         1. Gotcha. Thanks Romus! ISO is one of those stats that doesn’t get enough attention.

            I am pretty sure that Randolph adjusted his approach this year – I guess he’s just driving the ball more now. Whatever the case, he’s turned his season around quite a bit.

         2. Romus if you subtract the ISO from the SIG do you get JELLO?

8. Alright, C has got to be shooting back up prospect boards, am I right?

   Fun game – I name a package, and you name what player we could get in return.

   Randolph, Taveras, Kilome, and Canelo
   I see a ML quality OF, SS, #2 starter, and a wild card in Taveras (great numbers in minors, but do the translate?)

   Seems like a fun little exercise. Hope we are allowed to dream 😉

   1. 👎

   2. I like the premise of your ‘game.’ However, I’d try to bundle redundant positional minor league depth (OF, RHP) and relieve major league pressure (MI, 1B) and target areas of need (TOR, minor league 3B).

      So, for instance, can we find a combination of Moniak, Thompson, and Hernandez for Garritt Cole? I’m sure this is a flawed offer but I trust you get my drift.

      I imagine this is probably what the front office does daily!

      1. Doubt Thompson would cut the mustard with Neal Huntingdon as the third piece, the pitcher, in that trade scenario……he probably would bite with a Velasquez, though he may be tempted by even a Pivetta or Eickhoff.
         But get your point in that opportunity to acquire a TOR.

      2. I dig it. Makes for fun banter and great thought process. Too many times we say here’s what the front office should have done, so let’s have some fun with it and make a trade piece segment

9. Does anyone have an update on Roman Quinn? It is now 3 full months. Will he get in few games or is he going to get shut down for the duration?

   1. He’s still listed on the 7-day disabled list, so he may make it back in time for him to get injured again!

      Seriously, I’ve pretty much given up on him at this point. He’s a throw-in on a trade at best.

      1. Must be looking into the same crystal ball. He is a wildcard trade chip

   2. matt13……’running out of time’ as Mack said last night. Is this a double-edge meaning he is implying ….running out of time this season to get on the field or running out of time in the organization?.

      1. He’s running out of time to play this season. If healthy (and that’s a big if), he’s headed to winter ball to make up for lost time.

   3. matt,

      Philly.com quoted Klentak this morning saying he hopes to get Quinn on the field before the season ends but there’s no date yet.

      I was a big Roman Quinn fan for a long time, but it now appears he’s a bench player at best, or might not make it at all. He’s off my list as a top prospect and, unfortunately, it’s not for lack of talent or determination on his part.

      1. Roman Quinn is the enigma he’s always been. Now he’s more relegated to the role of lottery ticket because you just can’t rely on him due to the injuries. It’s too bad because I think he has the talent to be a first division regular.

10. Jim,

    Loved your line that “No Cross Cutters were hit in the playing of this game.”

    I’ve been meaning to post my thanks for the new features you’ve added to the site and once again express my admiration for you putting together an absolutely informative and fun site.

    And, not least of all, your commentary is great, like the Cross Cutters line.

11. The train has the capacity to go 200 MPH but the tracks can only handle 100….

12. First inning last evening..Joseph was at bat with a baserunner on..of course he hit the ball weakly for an out..was wishing Hoskins was at bat instead…and would hit a rocket somewhere..
    Does anybody think that they will get much more for Joseph if he plays the rest of this year..don’t the other teams realize that he is who he is?
    Compared to Hoskins getting some valuable experience with big league at bats NOW?

    1. The only way Joseph gets us a lot more at the end of the season is if he goes on a huge tear and draws a lot of walks in the process. What’s the chance of that happening? Maybe 10-15%? And I agree that not promoting Hoskins in August is going to impede his development so I would promote him and try to figure out a way for both to get at bats. If it were me, I would have done it before the Angels’ series so both could get at bats as starters.

       Anyway, at this point, I think they are impeding Hoskins’ development by keeping things as they are, which development is, to me, more important than hoping that ToJo will go on the hot streak of a lifetime and improve his trade value.

       1. I dont think there impeding anything. Joseph hasn’t done anything to lose his job.

          1. Yes, he has. He’s worse than the guy behind him.

             1. And yes, not getting big league at bats is preventing Hoskins from developing. It’s hurting Hoskins, which is bad, since Hoskins is likely the better player and the one who should be playing.

                1. Ok you’re wrong. Tommy’sfirst season as a full time regular in MLB and he’s doing pretty darn good. I’m glad our FO is calling the shots and not y’all.

          2. They’re* not there
             Sorry

13. Of the 5 tools (hit, hit for power, fielding, running, arm), the hit tool is the hardest tool to judge accurately. Foot speed, throwing arm, power (just watch BP), even fielding are easier to judge.

    But on the hit tool there are a couple clues — hitting for a good average with a reasonable K rate while very young for a level, is one clue. Maintaining or even increasing that average and maintaing a good K rate while moving up (while remaining very young for each level) is another clue. And scouts’ opinions (saying things like the player “has a good feel to hit”) are a good clue, too.

    Question for the group: amongst the Phillies minor leaguers, who has the best hit tool?

    I would say Kingery first (who looks like a future all-star) and Tocci second (unfortunately his lack of power makes him look like a future 4th outfielder). But I suppose others have a different view?

    1. Hasely could have the best hit tool, even though he had a bit of a rough patch for 50 ABs or so. I’m not judging that on anything other than what I’ve read here though.

    2. As he develops, I’d say “C” could have the best hit tool. He’s 20 and adjusting nicely in high A ball. But, yes, Kingery and Tocci are good candidates too.

    3. Rhys

       1. 👎🏻👎🏻 kingery

14. You guys are all correct on Quinn. I loved him, thought he was the top of the order guy that the team needed. He plays good defense and has elite speed. But he does not ever stay healthy. I think he is close to out of time in the organization, not just this season.

    1. Quinn has as much potential as any outfielder in the system, and that simply cannot be given up on.

       What do we have to gain by selling low? Selling low is how GMs look stupid. This happens in every sport.

       1. I don’t think they should sell low, but I also don’t think they should rely on him.

          1. Sell low. He won’t ever make an impact. Needs bubble wrap unfortunately

             1. Your takes are routinely unfortunate.

15. I agree on KIngery and would say, over his career, Hoskins has shown a good hit tool.

16. Moniak is starting to turn the corner, folks. Yes, his stats are looking underwhelming, but he’s made incredible strides in terms of his pitch recognition. People forget he’s only 19. This offseason, he’s going to put on 15-20 lbs of muscle. Also, it’s not like he’s striking out a ton. He’s putting the ball in play, adding loft to his swing and before you know it, those hits will translate to gap power. Rome wasn’t built in a day, but wait and see!

    1. All those things happening would be great. I truly hope they happen. But as far as turning the corner:

       In his last 10 games Moniak is hitting .243 with 2 BB and 13 K

       And he’s not striking out a ton but he is striking out 21.2% of the time and that is not a small number

       And the slash line against lefties is super discouraging for such a young player:

       .206/.257/.278/.535

       1. Don’t want to speak for John but I think he’s talking about his game and approach and not necessarily his stat line…

          1. Right-O!

             1. How do we quantify that he’s made incredible strides in pitch recognition though, without seeing better results in K% and BB%?

                are we just talking about him making better contact?

                1. It’s possible he is seeing more pitches/at-bat but not seeing results in increased BB%/decreased K%. Just a thought – I’d rather there be real stats that help win ballgames (kinda like how Mike Mamula kept “almost” getting sacks twenty years ago with the Eagles)

    2. didnt he put on muscle last off season? read matt winkleman piece where he mentioned some feel the added muscle was possibly hurting his “fast twitch athleticism” while BA piece yesterday was talking the strength program he’ll be doing this off season, and listed him at the same 185 pounds he was listed at when drafted.

       1. I read where one of the national guys had said that…KLaw or Fangraphs Eric L.
          His adjustment period may not have caught up to his added percentage of body bulk for a 19-year old.

    3. Out of curiosity, I asked minor league outfield instructor Andy Abad the other day about Moniak. Just a simple, “how’s he look, is there any concern” kid of stuff. He couldn’t be more adamant that Moniak was fine and he was doing everything that was being asked of him. He said the combination of his age, his lack of strength, being his first full season, and all the travel which Lakewood has to do is probably wearing on him.

       It feels like they’re probably approaching this season with him like they do with the just-drafted college guys. The most important thing is to go out and play, learn what you have to do to make your body hold up to the rigors of a season, learn how to make adjustments to pitchers and how they attack you as a hitter.

       I think it’s fair to have reservation about the lack of production, but it’s probably prudent to take this year’s numbers with a grain of salt and be patient with a young kid whose body has come close to reaching maturity.

       1. Thank you for that..
          The continual Moniak paranoia-bust hysteria is maddening to say the least..

17. Three 19 year olds at Lakewood:

    Player A: .258 BA; 21.2% K rate; 6.1% BB rate; .130 ISO; .321 BABIP (19.5% LD rate)
    Player B: .321 BA; 11.9% K rate; 7.7% BB rate; .103 ISO; .361 BABIP (21.4% LD rate)
    Player C: .274 BA; 20.7% K rate; 9.4% BB rate; .083 ISO; .346 BABIP (19.9% LD rate)

    Can we stop pretending Moniak (Player A) is having a decent season? That line sure as heck doesn’t scream “70 grade hit tool” . . . I’m not sure it screams “50 grade hit tool”. He should repeat Lakewood next year.

    Player A (Moniak this year) and Player B (Tocci in 2015) were both 19, both at Lakewood, and both played CF well. Tocci is no one’s idea of a top prospect. Player C is Randolph (in 2016), who is LF-only, but who has shown improvement this year (better BB rate, much higher ISO) at a higher level, especially over the past two months, which is encouraging. Next year Moniak needs to turn it on like C has over the past two months. But that Player A, B, C comparison is concerning.

    1. I made same comparison last week between Tocci and Moniak and was summarily blown off by commenters here haha

       It’s very concerning

       And to make it even more concerning I think you have the wrong ISO for Moniak. It’s actually .113 not .130

       1. Did Moniak steal your girlfriend? Or did John H.? 🤔

          1. Lol good one Anon!

             1. John Y* Messed that one up.

    2. At what point can we stop pretending that comparing stats from one player at a certain age means anything as it relates to another player?

       Moniak is not Tocci so it doesn’t matter that their stat lines are comparable at the same age. They have different body types. Tocci had already played several professional seasons by the age of 19 and both will have different career progressions…

       Maybe Moniak never becomes as good as Tocci is today or maybe he becomes much better but this foolish game of saying player A did this as a 19-year old means that player B will follow the same path is a waste of energy…

       1. TG just loves to rub in our faces that Moniak isn’t living up to expectations. He won’t mention his favorite pick that had another awful outing lol

18. Phils Pharm ranked 7th overall by MLB mid-season: http://m.mlb.com/news/article/246166920/midseason-ranking-of-mlbs-top-10-farm-systems/?topicid=151437456

    1. Appears Philies actually went up from their pre-season rankings.

       1. Not bad at all. Would love to be top 5.

          1. Get numero uno pick next June….splurge a little on the international market now that many are penalized, and all are now under a ‘hard cap’…. and it may happen by next mid-season rankings.

          2. TrolU…Phillies number three …as you requested….dang yuo are good.
             http://www.baseballamerica.com/minors/organization-talent-rankings-updated-trade-deadline/#pUBdvbSVmm7UuIMw.97

             1. I’m more than a Troll, I am a believer in what the FO is putting out.

             2. Surprised to see Cubs drop to 28th.

                1. have to assume Eloy Jimenez’s and Dylan Cease’ exit in their trade…and Happ’s promo may have been a reason for that.

                2. They’ve traded away so much talent. Cubs were pretty top heavy. They either traded them or promoted them. In ref to Cubs

19. Hey, Jim … not sure who you spoke to. But it worked. After a three week hiatus, the Hefty Lefty was back on the mound this afternoon for the GCL Phillies. 21st round draft pick Jakob Hernandez threw one inning, 0 H, 0 BB, 3 K. For the season 3 IP, 0 R, 0 H, 0 BB, 8 K. He needs to get bumped up to Williamsport asap.

20. Jim…assuming you will be there tonight charting Mills debut?
    Looking forward to your report tomorrow.

21. All the new pitchers came up pretty big tonight for the Threshers…..Mills, Hammer and McGarry with the save.
    Just realized the game was at Palm Beach, so I assume Jim probably could not get out there to see them.

22. Bases loaded triple by Daniel Brito in the bottom of the ninth clears the bases and wins the game for Lakewood 5-4.

23. Moniak’s stats in Lakewood this season may be somewhat underwhelming but I think that when you account for age (2 years younger) and level (one level higher), they are actually more impressive than those of Haseley in Williamsport (admittedly based on a SSS of 118 ABs).

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