Open Discussion: Week of May 22nd

Stop me if you’ve heard this before, “And another disappointing week”.  The Phillies were swept by the Texas Rangers and lost 2 of 3 against the Pittsburgh Pirates.  They returned home with a 2-7 record on their road trip.  During the past week, the Phillies scored 11 runs in their 5 losses.  No surprise that their starting pitchers absorbed the loss in 4 of those 5 games.  They return home to face the first place Colorado Rockies and the fading Cincinnati Reds.

The Phillies’ 1-5 record during the week lowered their record to 15-26 (.366).   They dropped into fourth place, barely ahead of an atrocious Miami Marlin team that is reeling more than could have been expected from the loss of a single pitcher.  The New York Mets are free-falling in the division and a weakened Atlanta Braves team has taken over second place.  The Washington Nationals are comfortably in first place even after going 5-5 in their last ten games.

Here’s the open discussion thread for Phillies’ talk and other topics.

Key dates remaining:

  • June 3rd – DSL Phillies’ seasons begin
  • June 12-14th – Rule 4 Draft
  • June 19th – Williamsport’s season begins
  • June 26th – GCL Phillies’ season begins
  • July 31st – Non-waiver Trade Deadline
  • December 10-14th – Winter Meetings in Orlando
  • December 14th – Rule 5 Draft


Transactions: (includes roster juggling paper moves)

  • 5/20 – RHP Blake Quinn assigned to Phillies Ext. Spring Training from Clearwater Threshers.
  • 5/20 – RHP Tyler Frohwirth assigned to Clearwater Threshers from GCL Phillies.
  • 5/19 – Phillies recalled Adam Morgan from Lehigh Valley IronPigs.
  • 5/19 – Brandon Leibrandt assigned to Reading Fightin Phils from Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 5/18 – Phillies optioned RHP Nick Pivetta to Lehigh Valley IronPigs.
  • 5/16 – Reading Fightin Phils activated 3B Harold Martinez from the 7-day DL.
  • 5/16 – Austin Davis assigned to Reading Fightin Phils from Clearwater Threshers.
  • 5/16 – Harold Arauz assigned to Clearwater Threshers from Lakewood BlueClaws.
  • 5/16 – Brandon Leibrandt assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from Reading Fightin Phils.
  • 5/16 – Tyler Hallead assigned to Lakewood BlueClaws from Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 5/16 – Tom Windle assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from Reading Fightin Phils.
  • 5/15 – Seranthony Dominguez assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from Clearwater Threshers
  • 5/15 – Jose Taveras assigned to Clearwater Threshers from Williamsport Crosscutters
  • 5/15 – Lehigh Valley IronPigs released LHP Wander Perez (0-0, 5.63).
  • 5/15 – Phillies optioned Ben Lively to Lehigh Valley IronPigs.
  • 5/14 – Phillies recalled Ben Lively from Lehigh Valley IronPigs.
  • 5/13 – RHP Tyler Viza assigned to Reading Fightin Phils from Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 5/13 – SS Jorge Flores assigned to Lehigh Valley IronPigs from Reading Fightin Phils.
  • 5/13 – Lehigh Valley IronPigs placed 2B Jesmuel Valentin on the 7-day disabled list. Left shoulder strain.
  • 5/12 – Phillies recalled RHP Luis Garcia from Lehigh Valley IronPigs.
  • 5/11 – LHP Zach Morris assigned to Lakewood BlueClaws from Phillies Ext. Spring Training.
  • 5/11 – RHP Sixto Sanchez assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from Lakewood BlueClaws.
  • 5/11 – Phillies optioned RHP Jake Thompson to Lehigh Valley IronPigs.
  • 5/10 – Lakewood BlueClaws released 3B Danny Zardon.
  • 5/10 – SS Raul Rivas assigned to Lakewood BlueClaws from GCL Phillies.
  • 5/10 – Tyler Viza assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from Reading Fightin Phils.
  • 5/10 – Reading Fightin Phils activated RHP John Richy from the 7-day disabled list.
  • 5/10 – Phillies optioned RHP Jake Thompson to Lehigh Valley IronPigs.
  • 5/9 – Austin Davis assigned to Clearwater Threshers from Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 5/9 – Jose Taveras assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from Clearwater Threshers.
  • 5/9 – Wander Perez assigned to Lehigh Valley IronPigs from Reading Fightin Phils.
  • 5/9 – Phillies placed RHP Jeanmar Gomez on the 10-day disabled list retroactive to May 6, 2017. Right elbow impingement.
  • 5/9 – Phillies sent RHP Aaron Nola on a rehab assignment to Lehigh Valley IronPigs.
  • 5/9 – RHP Casey Fien assigned to Lehigh Valley IronPigs.
  • 5/9 – Seattle Mariners traded RHP Casey Fien to Philadelphia Phillies for cash.
  • 5/9 – Phillies recalled Ty Kelly from Lehigh Valley IronPigs.
  • 5/8 – RHP Tom Eshelman assigned to Lehigh Valley IronPigs from Reading Fightin Phils.
  • 5/8 – LHP Wander Perez assigned to Reading Fightin Phils from Lehigh Valley IronPigs.
  • 5/7 – Austin Davis assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from Clearwater Threshers.
  • 5/7 – Seranthony Dominguez assigned to Clearwater Threshers from Phillies Ext. Spring Training.
  • 5/6 – RHP Harold Arauz assigned to Lakewood BlueClaws from Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 5/6 – LHP Zach Morris assigned to Phillies Ext. Spring Training from Lakewood BlueClaws.
  • 5/5 – Phillies recalled Jake Thompson from Lehigh Valley IronPigs
  • 5/5 – Phillies optioned Ty Kelly to Lehigh Valley IronPigs
  • 5/4 – Phillies signed free agent LHP Luis Suarez to a minor league contract.
  • 5/4 – RHP Matt Hockenberry assigned to Clearwater Threshers from Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 5/3 – Clearwater Threshers placed LHP Tyler Gilbert on the 7-day disabled list.
  • 5/2 – RHP Tyler Viza assigned to Reading Fightin Phils from Lehigh Valley IronPigs.
  • 5/2 – Osmel Aguila assigned to Reading Fightin Phils from Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 5/2 – Reading Fightin Phils placed 3B Harold Martinez on the 7-day disabled list. Lower back strain.
  • 5/2 – Seranthony Dominguez assigned to Phillies Ext. Spring Training from Clearwater Threshers.
  • 5/2 – Ranfi Casimiro assigned to Clearwater Threshers from Williamsport Crosscutters
  • 5/2 – Harold Arauz assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from Lakewood BlueClaws.
  • 5/2 – RHP Felix Paulino assigned to Lakewood BlueClaws from Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 4/30 – Phillies optioned RHP Luis Garcia to Lehigh Valley IronPigs.
  • 4/30 – Phillies recalled RHP Nick Pivetta from Lehigh Valley IronPigs.
  • 4/30 – RHP Tyler Viza assigned to Lehigh Valley IronPigs from Reading Fightin Phils.
  • 4/30 – RHP Shane Watson assigned to Reading Fightin Phils from Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 4/30 – RHP Blake Quinn assigned to Clearwater Threshers from Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 4/30 – RHP Ranfi Casimiro assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from Clearwater Threshers.
  • 4/30 – RHP Mauricio Llovera assigned to Lakewood BlueClaws from Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 4/30 – Lakewood BlueClaws released RHP Kenny Koplove.
  • 4/29 – Felix Paulino assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from Lakewood BlueClaws.
  • 4/29 – Lakewood BlueClaws activated RHP Trevor Bettencourt from the 7-day disabled list.
  • 4/28 – RHP Mauricio Llovera assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from Lakewood BlueClaws.
  • 4/28 – RHP Harold Arauz assigned to Lakewood BlueClaws from Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 4/27 – 1B Darick Hall assigned to Lakewood BlueClaws from Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 4/27 – 1B Alex Wojciechowski assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from Lakewood BlueClaws.
  • 4/27 – Cole Irvin assigned to Clearwater Threshers from Phillies Ext. Spring Training.
  • 4/27 – Keudy Bocio assigned to Phillies Ext. Spring Training from Clearwater Threshers.
  • 4/26 – RHP Harold Arauz assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from Lakewood BlueClaws.
  • 4/26 – LHP Ranger Suarez assigned to Lakewood BlueClaws from Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 4/26 – Reading Fightin Phils activated SS Jorge Flores from the 7-day disabled list.
  • 4/26 – RHP Shane Watson assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from Reading Fightin Phils.
  • 4/25 – RHP Blake Quinn assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from Clearwater Threshers.
  • 4/25 – 2B Keudy Bocio assigned to Clearwater Threshers from DSL Phillies.
  • 4/24 – RHP Seranthony Dominguez assigned to Clearwater Threshers from Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 4/24 – Phillies placed RHP Aaron Nola on the 10-day disabled list retroactive to April 21, 2017. Lower back strain.
  • 4/23 LHP Cole Irvin assigned to Phillies Ext. Spring Training from Clearwater Threshers.
  • 4/22 LHP Ranger Suarez assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from Lakewood BlueClaws
  • 4/22 RHP Felix Paulino assigned to Lakewood BlueClaws from Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 4/22 Phillies transferred RHP Clay Buchholz from the 10-day disabled list to the 60-day disabled list. Torn flexor tendon in right elbow.
  • 4/22 Toronto Blue Jays traded 3B Ty Kelly to Philadelphia Phillies for cash.
  • 4/21 LHP Joey DeNato assigned to Reading Fightin Phils from Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 4/21 RHP Matt Hockenberry assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from Reading Fightin Phils.
  • 4/21 Phillies activated RHP Pat Neshek from the paternity list.
  • 4/21 Phillies optioned RHP Ben Lively to Lehigh Valley IronPigs.
  • 4/20 – Seranthony Dominguez assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from Clearwater Threshers.
  • 4/20 – Franklyn Kilome assigned to Clearwater Threshers from Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 4/19 – Phillies placed RHP Pat Neshek on the paternity list.
  • 4/19 – Lehigh Valley IronPigs activated RHP Colton Murray from the 7-day disabled list.
  • 4/19 – Phillies recalled RHP Ben Lively from Lehigh Valley IronPigs.
  • 4/19 – RHP Felix Paulino assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from Lakewood BlueClaws.
  • 4/19 – RHP Kenny Koplove assigned to Lakewood BlueClaws from Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 4/18 – Phillies placed LF Howie Kendrick on the 10-day disabled list retroactive to April 16, 2017. Right abdominal strain.
  • 4/18 – Phillies placed RHP Clay Buchholz on the 10-day disabled list retroactive to April 15, 2017. Torn flexor tendon in right forearm.
  • 4/18 – Phillies signed free agent RHP Carlos Francisco to a minor league contract.
  • 4/18 – Phillies signed free agent RHP Alexis Herrera to a minor league contract.
  • 4/18 – Phillies selected the contract of RHP Mark Leiter from Lehigh Valley IronPigs.
  • 4/18 – Phillies recalled RHP Zach Eflin from Lehigh Valley IronPigs.
  • 4/18 – LHP Wander Perez assigned to Lehigh Valley IronPigs from Reading Fightin Phils.
  • 4/18 – Lakewood BlueClaws placed RHP Trevor Bettencourt on the 7-day disabled list retroactive to April 16, 2017.
  • 4/18 – LHP JoJo Romero assigned to Lakewood BlueClaws from Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • The organization rosters are almost up to date.


227 thoughts on “Open Discussion: Week of May 22nd

  1. Wow, Nola looked real nasty today, the best I’ve seen him in over a year. Unfortunately, Phillies finding ways to lose.

  2. In a year when the division is weak, the Phils are under-performing. The fans are disgruntled and losing interest but the manager has been extended. It reminds of a cruise ship where they’re partying on deck while there are problems in the boiler room.

    But not to worry, I expect reassuring works from the captain reminding that he’s at the helm and all is good.

  3. Guys this team WAS NOT expected to compete . . . yet some people have “taken a step back” but it’s still only May. I don’t know why this has been THAT shocking to people.

    1. It’s shocking because Eichoff, Velasquez, Franco, and Herrera have all regressed.

      1. 5 years from now, The only player stated above still on this team is Velasquez.

        1. Maybe so but if they’re going to turn the corner anytime soon they need contributions from those players, or they need them to perform well to be trade pieces.

          Really the only bright spots this season are Altherr and Hernandez and they’ve both cooled off recently. Cameron Rupp’s hit but he’s been a disaster defensively.

      2. and even moreso beyond that their “trade chips”

        Hellickson has been awful. ERA and wins aside he’s not missing any bats. He’s due for a major regression.

        Buchholz is hurt, obviously. A waste of a $13 million investment.

        Kendrick is hurt and there’s no timetable for his return. What could he possibly bring back in a trade?

        Saunders is a DFA candidate in my mind if they don’t outright bench him. Quinn deserves his roster spot.

        1. I’m patient and wasn’t expecting more than 72 wins this season. As a matter of fact (I know this bothers plenty of posters) I prefer they end up near the bottom rather than the middle. This is why I think JL26 makes the most poignant remark … the most concerning problem is the Phillies’ trade chips are drowning. It’s looking like Hellickson, Buchholz, Kendrick, and Saunders are going to net this team next to nothing. Let’s hope Pat Neshak and Cameron Rupp stay healthy.

        1. He had a better April last year with a worse supporting cast. So I’d say he’s regressed. He was okay last year, this year he’s been bad.

          I would attribute that some to trying to become more patient, but at some point he needs to stop pulling off the ball.

    2. I expected them to compete that doesn’t necessarily mean win games but at least have the appearance you’re on the right track

  4. I thinks it only me , But i didn’t expect them to contend like eric said. But to be this bad is not what i thought this team would be and i know its may. but they plain stink, and dont have one superstar in there system to lead them. So i guess i will wait for September when we play Washington who will have clinch, and dont play there starters, then we will win meaning less games. and lose the rights to beer. That would make eric happy and others.

    1. Where did you expect them to be at this point? They are still evaluating their players. They aren’t even 1/3 of the way into the season.

  5. And just an FYI not a Phillies org apologist (if you were thinking that) . . . For example I think they missed w JP Crawford and w Randolph. Don’t think either one ever become anything to get excited over. And to be honest I don’t think Moniak will be anything special either.

      1. If I had to draft someone else: Nick Senzel (top choice), Jason Groome, and one of either Corey Ray/Kyle Lewis.

        1. Kyle Lewis was already hurt and is probably a first baseman for sure going forward, nothing wrong with that but not what is want at 1.1 and Corey Ray hasn’t lit the world on fire either

      2. Kolby Allard instead of Randolph.

        I’m not ready to give up on Randolph but in hindsight that’s the obvious move.

        1. That is relatively easy to say Allard now….it would not have been a good pick in September 2015, after a few months he had back surgery.
          Let’s see how he is after 3/4 more years of wear and tear on the back.
          Look at all the players drafted after Randolph….not many successes….Beau Burrows at 22 by the Tigers maybe and Ferris Walker Buehler and Soroka way down in the 20s also.
          So the draft on a whole may not have been as strong as they thought overall …at least in the first round.

          1. I only felt comfortable typing that as I remember there was a good contingent of people likening him to Cole Hamels out of highschool. Big time arm with injury concerns. That’s why I said in hindsight because the Braves definitely took a gamble.

            1. JL26…can understand his upside….and the Braves are gambling as you say….but after two back surgeries his long term outcome is questionable….I think of how it happened to guys like Matt Harrison of late….but he was older when it happened, so Allard has youth on his side.
              I am sure the medical record scared a few teams off Allard.

    1. It’s starting to look like they missed with Randolph, but I don’t think they missed with Crawford at all, especially where they drafted him.

      This month, however, Crawford has begun to return to his ways of old – drawing 13 walks against 9 Ks – which is superb. He has had about the most dreadful start you can imagine and he still has a .313 OBP. Crawford is a guy who, in the long run, will kill you with competence and his batting skills could take several years to develop. But he’s a guy who, very early on, should churn out one above average season after another. The real question to me is not whether Crawford will be a productive major league player, but whether Malquin Canelo may offer more upside in the long run. I’m telling you, Canelo can play.

  6. In the past…June was the swoon month… they fade in May.
    Oh dear! 😦

    1. Romus – Wow . . You just brought my Dad back to life in my head for min . . . He’s was the kinda Dad who would always break my b⚾️lls about being a Phillies fan (just to tease me in a fun way) and if they were playing well he would always say “ahh they’ll enter their June Swoon” . . . He passed away in Dec of 2008 . . . Never had a chance for me to break his about the Phillies winning a WS. Thanx Romus.

      1. EricD…memories, eh?
        Baseball connects the son and the father….and now the daughter and the father or even mother.
        Well for the Philliesthis year…. they didn’t delay, and started early in May.

      2. My grandfather used to say to me that philly let the wrong team leave and they should have kept the athletics and told the Phillies to Eff off
        It makes me think sometimes, also because I live so close to Oakland and just hate watching there revolving door if dreck every year

  7. I had a dream……….in the dream I was in a room with John Middletown. He had a big fat wallet and there in the room were all these 5 tool baseball players. Finally he took his wallet out, but when he opened it to buy these players just moths came out, thats when I awoke in a cold sweat, it scared the heck out of me.

    1. That’s good that you woke up. I’m still asleep. What’s it like out there?

  8. Everyone calling for Bob McClure head wasn’t he like the 3rd choice for the Job ?still there really isn’t a now replacement . Other then the bp just stay patience I mean Franco 24 , Herrera 25 there all pretty young.

    1. Tim…I am waiting for you to call for Matt Stairs’ head….since every one but Cesar and the recently hot ToJo, are on the slippery slope slowly slumping.

      1. No they show marked improve in . ops and hitting this has shown marked improve. The bp can’t find a long relivers and Joey stinks he can’t get out of an ing. There’s no mark improvement from the young starters there regressing . That’s on the pitching coach. Nola did look great but that could be just him.

    2. Tim excatly what they want. they havent improved one area in four seasons, But we wait. wait. I worry about the people leading this new movement. Scouts who cant see a gusy hit tool. cant find pitching, and quite frankly to see 30 top latin players and we are in on one is bad. Boston is in on three, and i thought they were not allowed to go over 300.000 They need to blow up that market now. Not as Romus said sign a bunch of cheaper guys like they been doing and hope to get a freddy galvis. i rather sign a top guy like bostons does and get a xander Bogaerts. type. Maybe cigar sales are down or middleton has become the next laurie all talk and no action

      1. rocco…maybe worst stretch in Phillies history.
        ‘17… 15- 26 – 366 472,506(Attendance)
        ‘16… 71- 91 – .438 1,915,144
        ‘15… 63- 99 – .389 1,831,080
        ‘14… 73- 89 – .451 2,423,852
        ‘13… 73- 89 – .451 3,012,403
        295-394………….Percentage .428

        1. I think what we need to start looking at is who is gonna be that team changing star we are gonna draft

          1. Hinkie and 8mark are craven for Pavin as that future star in three weeks.
            I am torn between him or Austin Beck….that is if both are still on the board at 1.8

            1. It’s going to be Beck,Bulgar ,Baz or Griffin Canning. P Smith have never been linked to The Phillies other then the draft sites putting in there top ten . They put there top 10 in were they think they should go early in n the draft process. Later like now when Baz name came into play are people hearing and seeing scouts at the games. The Phillies seem to take who they like not the stats quo.

            2. Tim….question…..what other ‘limkage’ is out there in cyber space that is not ‘draft sites’, like BA, BP, ESPN et al….That do not have Pavin Smith linked to the Phillies?
              The only other one that I know of that is the most reliable is at 1 Citizens Bank Way, Phila, PA 19148, Executive Office on the 2nd floor.

            3. Ramos early in the draft process yes Pavin Smith but there was nobody saying They have direct links to the Phillies . The sites early go by what they think the team will take. later they go what they know and who they seen at the games they been too. That’s why Baz has been directly linked to the Phillies it’s later the in the process. I really don’t use draft sites until later in the Draft.

        2. They did a .414 stretch from 69 through 73..

          69 – 63-99
          70 – 73-88
          71 – 67-95
          72 – 59-97
          73 – 71-91

          I didn’t look back in the 20’s and 30’s when they were terrible for long stretches..

      2. Otani would be nice really Sox drafted really well outside the top ten. That’s what good teams do they don’t have stink each yr in order to get a high draft pick. Even Houston drafted well outside the top 10. The Yanks do the same thing , what’s amazing is everywhere In The Phillies sys they solid bp but the big leagues that says something .

        1. In reality Houston blew the 2/3 #1 picks they had; Appel over Bryant and that whole Brady Aiken fiasco (hindsight, they’re probably better off that he didn’t sign given Bregman’s performance). It’s been their ability to manipulate their draft pool which has really boosted their farm system.

        2. Houston is good now, but from 2007-14, they only had 1 winning season. And they have no World series title to their name. I’m sure if you asked an Astros fan in 2010 what was going on, they would be just as angry as we are now.

    3. Maybe Roy Halladay should become the pitching coach or an advisor to the young pitchers.

  9. Herrera fails to run in a 1-0 game in the 9th Inning! Can’t fathom what goes on in his head. They have guys on this team that are the direct opposite of what a “gamer” should be. And. his .240 BA is very impressive!

  10. Last year the Phils started out 24-17 after 41 games. They finished the year going 47-74. With this year’s 15-26 start, if they finish going 47-74, they will end with…100 losses.

    This site will go crazy! All the talk will be about getting that 1-1 draft pick. Guys will be so happy! Me? I’d rather have a competitive team. Is that asking for too much?

    1. Me, I’m with you here. I want to see a competitive team. I don’t want to feel like they’ve lost the game before they’ve taken a single AB. With the talent on this team, we should be way better than 11 games under .500.

      I don’t know why people on this site go nuts when we’re in a bad stretch (not making the playoffs). I’m not happy about it, but I know what’s going on. Developing prospects are hard. Real hard. Like Jeff Jackson, Wayne Gomes, Pat Combs (the good old bad days). It’s the biggest crapshoot in all sports. The Phillies are not the only ones having problems.

    2. Their pythagorean expectation has them as a mid-70’s win team. I expect them to get “hot at some point” i.e. their luck turn.

  11. The only players on the big league roster that interest me long term are Altherr, Knapp, Nola, Velasquez, Eickhoff and perhaps Neris (although even the best relievers are either on again-off again propositions or they’re run of success is relatively brief). Ramos is enigmatic. Thought he’d be a closer candidate but I can’t wrap my brain around the rhyme or reason of any major league bullpen arms.

    On the farm, Kingery has the physical and mental makeup of a future star. Alfaro and Crawford are special players who’ll need time to become what they’ve shown flashes of up until now. Hoskins should be a solid major leaguer. The question will be his value as a RH hitting 1b. If Pavin Smith is drafted 1-8, another good problem presents itself to mgt. Cozens is fun to follow even if his ceiling is as a platoon. Players like Franco and Herrera just don’t excite me because of their lack of baseball acumen. Cesar has made himself into a nice player but he becomes a valuable trade candidate with the rise of Jetpax.

    Sixto is the single in-house future ace candidate because of both his stuff and competitive nature.

    I think many on here are premature to condemn the new regime which hasn’t yet entered its 3rd year of running the show. Nothing replaces time as an essential part of rebuilding. Middleton is giving MacKlentak room to play out the floor plan. This next 6 months WILL be crucial, however. I’ll have more to go on by then.

    1. Herrera needs to adjust. He’s not getting as much fastballs as before, and he’s getting non-fastballs in fastball counts. That’s why he’s looking so bad on some pitches. On one AB yesterday, Herrera worked himself into a 3-1 count, a noted fastball count. Instead, Herrera got a breaking ball and flailed wildly at it (which would have been ball 4). Then he got a fastball and couldn’t catch up to it.

        1. No 1964 was the worst. Mauch pitching two unbeatable guys on four days rest that year, he makes them pitch on 3 days or less rest it seemed. I went to the series against the braves. Joe Torre split a wooden seat in bleacher seat right near me. Hardest ball i ever saw hit. It happen during that blown losing streak , I Think it was 6and half games up with ten to play.

          1. rocco…your fav Fanti pitching tonight…if the weather holds up in Ocean County.

            1. i would love to go see him pitch I wonder how a guy who cant break a egg is so good. He must throw a spitball. Even his off speed pitches, according to scouts arent that good. How does he do it is very interesting to see.

            2. rocco….he is in the upper 80s now, I believe I read that in one report.
              Perhaps he is doing it by the the ole reliable ‘covers-it -all’ explanation…deception in his delivery. Though, he must have exceptional command. he has only walked 20 batters in the last 87 innings pitched and struck out 90.

      1. I think he could but I have my doubts that the Phillies would draft him with playing LF in mind. He’d at least be the 2nd best 1b in the organization after Stassi, who may not be here long after.

    2. 8mark….concerning the MacKlentak team….I prefer the Klentak part was a bit more aggressive and creative in amateur acquisition. I look at Preller, Coppolla, Hahn, the Reds’ Dick Williams, and even Brewer’s guy David Stearns and see a lot more aggressive maneuvering…..the Astros’; Luhnow , out of the Cardinals org, was like that a few years back.
      In Klentak I see hesitancy and calculative decisions.
      Up until now, the Dec 2015 Giles’ trade appears to be his sole action that involved some risk , courage and forcefulness.
      Last season, he was not pleased with any July offers for Hellickson, so he held him…..then made the QO , IMO , thinking Boras and JH would reject it. How did that turn out. This year he has to sell very low or bite the bullet after the season.
      Right now he slowly painting himself into a corner with the multiple prospects at the AA/AAA level. Other GM are not stupid……they will offer little to nothing realizing he has to promote or lose them. It happened to Cherington in Boston when he started hording guys….Dombrowski came and started trading them for proven MLB players.
      Of course, the core prospects on the Sox of Betts, Bogaerts, now Bradley etc are a shade better than the core prospects the Phillies currently have on the field in Franco, Cesar, Herrera etc..

      1. Romus, there is a narrative which I find to be 95% false but that your post here and elsewhere on this string feeds into. The narrative characterizes the Phils being so slow to promote players that they create a glut of prospects whom they can’t protect and risk losing to other teams eager to pluck the bounteous excess from the Phils’ farm. With all respect to Alec Asher, I don’t find that supported by history. Nor do I find it likely to happen this coming off-season.

        Matt Winkleman elsewhere has done a good synopsis of the Rule 5-eligible prospects vulnerable if not protected.

        It is a modest list, and taking the most generous view of the talent, numbers a group smaller than the number of expendable Phillies on contracts due to lapse.

        Allowing for how performance could change this list, my ‘protects’ would be:

        Frankyn Kilome, Seranthony Dominguez, Victor Arano, Hoby Milner, Jesen Therrien, Yacksel Rios, J.P. Crawford, Rhys Hoskins, Malquin Canelo, Andrew Pullin, and Carlos Tocci.

        Some of these would be low risk candidates proven (Milner) or unlikely to stick on another team’s roster for a season if selected in the Rule 5.

        Just to remind, the following names could easily come off the 40-man:

        Hellickson, Buchholz, Kendrick, Saunders, Benoit, Gomez, Blanco, Nava, Morgan, Stassi, Appel, Kelly, Leiter, Luis Garcia and Pinto.

        I tilt to favor some names that could also appear on that list:

        Elniery Garcia, Valentin, Anderson, Tirado and Rodriguez

        Now allowing that the Phils may extend some players mentioned above or will have to replace them, the math doesn’t support the notion that the Phils are bursting at the seams with excess talent.

        To end this, other GMs will not be lining up to offer pennies on the dollar in trade for players the Phils are at imminent risk of losing.

    3. 8mark see that’s your trouble sometimes you put prospects above mlb players . Franco 24 , Herrera made the all star team last yr. Galvis may have the highest baseball IQ on the team. Tojo hasn’t even reach 500 at bats. Young 3rd basemen it takes time but Franco SKill level is high . Hi s babip will go up as will his avg.

  12. Really tough to put a silver lining on the week.

    Franco continues to disappoint. He will get more opportunities this year into next, but hoping another viable option becomes available in the system (Kingery) to help push him to progress or be replaced for the longer term.

    The pitching continues to be terrible, hopefully Nola can stay healthy so we can see a full season from him. Not sure what the pitching coach is doing for these guys at this point. He will almost certainly be fired in the off-season.

    Heard something that was interesting over the weekend & I tend to agree that this team doesn’t have the leadership or confidence (aka swagger) to perform every night. For so many years, Jimmy, Chase, Ryan, & Cole brought such confidence to beat the other team. I just don’t see it from this group.

    Guys like Franco, Galvis, Rupp, Tojo, Doobie, & CeHe have had periods of confidence, but have not been able to sustain it or in fact do not have physical ability to do so.

    1. Sometimes it is very difficult for young Latin players to take leadership roles.
      They often times they may feel like ‘visitors’ to the country and , they do not have the best command of the language.
      And the Phillies have a lot of young Latin position starters.
      So there is that hesitancy in wanting to be the leader.
      Apparently, Freddy has taken that role….and he also is the senior guy on the team with the most longevity.
      JRoll took that role fairly early on..then came Chase ,Ryan Howard and Vic.

      1. The leader of the group is Blanco – who works his butt off.

        I’ll tell you this, if Herrera has decided he’s going to be a guy who doesn’t hustle, they should move on from him as quickly as possible. That’s not an attitude that is tolerable on a team trying to learn to win. One of the best things that Pat Gillick did when he became GM was move on from Abreu, even though he was tremendously talented and proven, he did not have the right mind set. And you know what? As counterintuitive as it seemed, the moment they traded him the Phillies became much better. I hope Odubel hasn’t become comfortable and satisfied with a partial effort, but if he has, then we should get rid of him.

        1. As soon as Abreu was moved JRoll took the role as the de facto leader.
          As for Blanco being the current leader….just not skilled enough and bench guys normally do not take on that role. Granted, he the truest role model for the young Latin players, though wish he did not have to continue taking on that responsibility with Herrera. But agree…..if he cannot comply, then perhaps time to move on. Obviously, It would be easier if he would go on a hot hitting streak.

          1. Of course, and his fielding has actually improved. I hope it’s a blip on the radar – this often happens with guys who get their first big contract. Either they chill for a year or they put to much pressure on themselves the first year. He’s young so I hope he can turn it around.

        2. Not ready to equate Doobie to Abreu just yet. Let’s see how he responds when Quinn comes up to take time from him in CF.

          This is probably Doobie’s first level of regression over the last 3 seasons & add the variable of the contract extension. Not bad for a Rule 5 guy.

          We need to be ready for the fact that Nick Williams won’t be a starting OF. His OPS is too low to be called up this year.

    2. John H,

      Interesting observation. Hoskins is steady. Cozens has the hutzpah, Jet Packs is tough as nails. Eickoff, too. Nola is a cool customer. Maybe there is a leadership core developing.VV, for all his faults, is intense.

      1. VV is a sports therapist away from being dominant for a long time. Hence, my absolute disappointment with the coaching staff for not doing better & wasting an off-season. Nola, Efflin, & Eickoff haved they can hold it down as well.

        I think it is time for the team to find alternate spots for good players.

        Kingery needs to get time at 3B & OF this fall. Hoskins with his OPS should be considered for LF, if he can handle it athletically.

        Why not find a way to optimize the best hitters?

  13. Looks like Mackanin is treading water with this lineup. For tonight it looks like he picked names out of a hat. If Saunders is an 8 hitter, you may as well release him. Bring Quinn up. Freddy in the 2 hole? Yes he’s had a good avg in a handful of games there but seriously. I don’t recall when daily tinkering with a lineup has ever had a positive effect.

    1. 8mark…about this time, I can hear Matt Stairs saying….”WTF did I do, I could be sitting in a TV booth at night during the games, and still check the hockey scores”

    2. Aside from Hellickson, the gambles they’ve taken on experienced players thus far has not paid off this year or last year. Kendrick seems good but is still hurt. So far, Buchholz and Saunders have been unmitigated disasters. The bullpen additions have been middling at best. No hidden gems to be found, unless you count Charlie Morton, who was not extended.

  14. Romus, about your earlier comment on Klentak. I think that the entire organization bought into the notion that they were going to spend after the 2018 season. So, his moves were meant to buy some time for the prospects in AAA and try to win a few more games this season. They have not worked out very well. And, their has not been a young guy establishing himself as a future star. And, anything they get for Hellickson or Kendricks, if anything, won’t move the needle very much. So, I wonder if they accelerate their plan, and start this off season. Maybe start with a Moustakis? I don’t see them going into the FA SP market.

    1. matt13…..I was leaning more towards the A ball level talent acquisitions. Like this latest Cuban that Hahn and the White Sox just signed over the weekend.
      Now understand they did sign the most international players this past J2 period , than any other team, for their new academy in the DR, so I guess that is a plus.
      I was not referring to any MLB FA signings.
      Incidentally, say you were the GM….and right now you planning long term….and that is only 14 months max out from now most likely….and you are staring at 7 young assets ( Herrera, Altherr, Quinn, Cozens, Williams and mayve Pullin and Tocci) for three OF spots, and all have to be protected in November or else the chance they are selected Rule 5 what would you do?
      I am afraid Matt Klentak is going to wait too long before making any decisions.

    2. i agree with this assessment. I think Middleton, McKlentak and company circled 2019 as the time to be one of the competitive teams in the MLB. The Phils will not over-commit and make a band aid approach short term nor they will tear down the farm just to jump start contention. In a way, the Phils is following a Sixers blue print without doing a full-Hinkie mode.

      Facts that the front office knows that will shape their decision process in the future:

      1) Phils have $$ (and revenue stream) and they have payroll flexibility in the next coming years and they are committed to exploit that.
      2) Phils don’t have a legit superstar by the time they compete in 2019 — so they will buy one or two thru FA.
      3) Current foundation pieces are not yet ready and still need time to continue their development. The FO will continue the 1-year contracts roulette.
      4) Teams are really aggressive acquiring international talent – Phils will continue to more $$ in international scouting and player development (academy in DR is an example)
      5) Phils cannot rely on Rule 5 success stories and expect players to be suddenly awesome when they are 26 yo — I think the pressure to hit in the Rule 4 draft will be of utmost importance.

      I expect the Phils to win around 75 games and I’m optimistic about them heading into this season. But if guys like Doobie and Cesar are the best players in your team, then don’t expect too much.

      Nola and Quinn flash a lot of red flags amongst fans. People already delegated Nola as back end starter this past 12 months. Nola’s velocity is creeping up and his pitches still have wicked movement. Nola is a type of player who can get hot during a playoffs run. As for Quinn, people see his health issues than his actual ability. Quinn has a game changing speed. In regardless of his health issues, the Phils should not hesitate to play him everyday until his wheels fell off because everytime Quinn is in the field, he can affect the game both offensive and defensively.

      1. Quinn is only 9/13 in SB despite his “game changing speed”. His OPS is only 700 in AAA this season. That translates closer to 600 in the majors. He needs more time in the minors to learn to hit and to use his speed.

        Does anybody know why he has so few SB attempts so far, 13 through 5/27, this year?

  15. Nola and VV have the most value to team (40-man) since their development can set the timing and direction of the future Phillies team. Both can flash dominance on their good day and if both hit their ceiling – the Phils will have a solid #2/#3 for 10 years. If not, the contention will be pushed back until the younger guys in the lowers are ready.

  16. Has Jeanmar Gomez entered witness protection? Haven’t heard much about him at all lately.

    1. ciada….ailing elbow….has been soft tossing last week from what I understand

  17. Romus, I think Kendricks, Saunders and Nava are off the 40 Man so that leaves 3 spots. I think they have to bring up a few of their prospects by August and let them play. I hope Herrera ups his BA enough to be part of a trade and the OF next year is Altherr, Quinn and a Cozens platoon. Just purely speculation that leaves out Williams. Pullin makes the team as an extra OF.

    1. rocco…up or out. He is 24 years old in low-A and cannot get anyone out. He may asked for it also. Some guys know when it is time to hang them up

      1. Strange they would be holding back good players, when there is a need in AAA & he is playing well enough.

        1. It’s ridiculous, he should be in AAA. What else is he going to do/learn at AA?

      2. Obviously the planetary alignment and stars in their courses are not yet in the alignment that they need to be to make the trip from Reading to Lehigh Valley. Meanwhile I watch the 3B on the parent club screwing himself into the ground while executing a full pirouette on the 3rd strike. I only gave him a 6.5 finish as I would liked his chin to be higher.

  18. Our buddy John Y. got Moniaks first full season home run ball tonight . . . going to see if he can trade it for a game used bat haha good stuff.

  19. Joey Rod and Lujx Garcia should be DFR ‘s by tomorrow. Just take them away from Mac. PLEASE. Joey stats are horrible more balls then walks 28 hits in 20 ings . Garcia is just no command or control .

    1. They’re using Joely as a long man for some reason… he shouldn’t be pitching 2 innings, they should be developing him as a situational lefty. I don’t get the way they use this bullpen at all.

    1. very interesting. every experiment needs time to materialize & reach a conclusion. let’s hope the small success continues. I have to admit, it wasn’t obvious to me.

  20. At the quarter pole –

    Tommy Joseph B- Let’s hope he’s holding his value come late July.

    Cesar Hernandez B+

    Freddy Galvis C

    Maikel Franco D – at least he’s on pace for 100 rbi???

    Aaron Altherr A – coming back to earth a bit but definitely a future piece. Impressive approach at the plate. Swing and miss guy but works counts well. All else is high grade.

    Odubel Herrera C- the league has figured him out. Now will he adjust?

    Michael Saunders D- You can release him anytime. Waste of time and money. Too bad Kendrick got hurt. He’d give us something.

    Cameron Rupp C – He should start less.
    Andrew Knapp B – He should start more.

    Jeremy Hellickson B- At this point, get what we can and move on.

    Jerad Eickhoff C+ Disappointing but still a viable backend rotation arm at least.

    Vince Velasquez B- Once he figures how to be efficient with his pitches, look out.

    Aaron Nola B – I’ve got good vibes so long as he can stay off the DL.

    Zach Eflin C+ Not a bad job but there’s probably better options than a guy who HAS to be perfect or else he’ll get lit up.

    Bullpen with exception of Neshek F

    Neshek A – probably our top trade chip as of now. Sadly.

  21. Gentlemen, your mandatory reading assignment for today – earlier (late a.m.) MLB Trade Rumors posted an extensive scouting report by Chuck Wasserstrum, who interviewed 5 anonymous proster scouts who have seen Shohei Otani. In a word, WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I wanna hear reactions and thoughts.
    Me? Let’s die trying to get this kid.
    Please read it…..

    1. From the non-pitching aspect…I am a little surprised about the hitting grade the compiled on him… 45/50.
      I guess part of it is his the swing and miss in his makeup.

    2. no need to ready anymore — i’m already in the Otani train since the beginning. All I want to see from the Phils right now is to make an effort to acquire legitimate “studs” (no just one, but more) to show that they really want to win.

    3. Does anyone think there could be an advantage to signing Yu Darvish in order to appeal to the Otani camp? Or is there any relationship/connection between the 2 Japanese stars at all?

  22. I picked the Phils to win 75 wins mainly because of their young SPs particularly Nola, VV and Eickhoff which I expect to contribute at least 30 wins for 2017 season. So far the trio are way behind expectation. If the trio can form a reliable middle of the rotation (#2-#4) arms, the Phils can shore the rotation within the next 12 months by signing a TOR ace (Otani is my preference). Eflin can be a serviceable #5 and Pivetta, Pinto and Appel can be converted to the pen if needed.

    I’m not really high on the hitting squad until: a) prospects with loud tools (i.e. Quinn, Alfaro, etc) start playing everyday; b) the 2nd wave of reinforcements (i.,e. Kingery, Hoskins) are ready for the majors and c) top bat will be acquired.

    Nothing in the 1st 6 weeks surprised me both in the majors and in the minors — the Phils is one of the youngest team and expected to struggle offensively while the farm shows talent in all position and in all levels but short of game changing players ready to contribute to the big show in 2-3 years.

    The optimistic side in me believes in Quinn, Alfaro, Kingery and Hoskins. JPC will be the glue guy that will anchor the middle of the diamond defense and will keep the batting chain moving. I like to believe in Altherr because of all the things he can do despite of the swing and miss tendencies. That core plus the signing of a Harper or Machado (and Trout in 2020) and sprinkled with whoever succeeded and survived in the current 40-man will give the fans the team they will route for since the Howard-Jimmy-Utley-Cole era.

    The Eagles have Carson, the Sixers got Joel and Simmons (+ #3 draft pick) and the Flyers got Provorov and either Patrick or Hischier in the upcoming draft — I will not be surprised if these 3 Philly teams will be competitive before the Phils — so patience Phillies fans!!

    1. The Flyers let’s not forget Spencer Foo , Oslar B , Mike V , plus the Flyers have about 13 mil under the cap.

  23. Kurdt, part of the problem is that they waited too long to start the re-build. I give them 2012, I was numb myself after the way ’11 ended. But, this is now 5 years after that and there is not the core of a contending team. So, patience has worn thin. I expected more improvement this year and a chance to be in the WC hunt next year. I don’t see next year being any better than this one. The second problem is there is not one “can’t miss, cream of the crop” prospect. That leaves an awful lot to be accomplished through FA. Without Machado or Harper, and without getting Otani, where do those great players come from?

    1. matt – not only they waited too long but also tolerated mediocrity across all levels of the front office, farm and the Phillies team.

      While the Phils don’t have a surefire HOF in their roster (majors and minors), the Phils have: 1) guaranteed revenue stream; and 2) super payroll flexibility —- give these 2 advantage to a very able front office and they can construct a winning team.

      the laundry list might look a lot for the Phils – but drafting well in the upcoming Rule IV and acquiring the best international talent come J2 signing should be something that the Phils can do.

      1. KuKo….according to’s Jesse Sanchez…DR ss Luis Garcia is all but signed for July signing period.
        Rank: 7 ……Bats: S Throws: R….Ht: 5’11” Wt: 160 lb.
        Grades: Hit: 50 | Power: 35 | Run: 60 | Arm: 55 | Field: 60
        Garcia is rarely the biggest prospect on the field, but his skill set and potential are immense. The middle infielder can flash the leather on defense and has wowed scouts with his plus arm. Garcia has shown good range to all directions and a reliable glove, leading many to believe he will stay at shortstop for the rest of his career. Not surprisingly, he’s been praised for his good footwork and advanced body control. But Garcia is not just a defense-only player. On offense, the switch-hitter has a short and quick swing. Garcia is a contact hitter with good speed and an approach that’s probably better suited for the top of the lineup, at least for now. He’s a line-drive hitter that has not shown much power, but that could change as he grows and his body matures. Garcia is trained by Carlos Guzman in the Dominican Republic. The Phillies are the favorites to sign him.

        1. wow, another Luis Garcia — if the Phils will only acquire 1 of the Top 30 prospects — they’re basically doing the same play they did in the the past years — sign 1-2 top Top 30 prospects and spread the rest of the pool with low $$ signings.

          But I will be direct on what I want the Phils to do in the international front — spend $$ and bust their pool in signing Otani. If Otani signs with another MLB team — that’s a big failure in the scorecard of Middleton and team.

          what Hinkie did to the Sixers might be embarrassing, but they did try to be in a position to acquire a transcendent talent. the Phils are always in the position — they just have to pull the trigger and take the risk.

          1. KuKo….I am with you on busting the pool for that one big sign. Now Ortiz in ’15 for $4M was that guy without busting the ceiling. So Otani next season would be a truly worthwhile reason to do it. Perhaps add a Machado, if he doesn’t re-up with the Os, along with Otani….and now something is happening.

            1. No concerns about Otani’s reported thigh injury? He is still on their DL, hadn’t pitched in the 8 games prior to his injury, and had only been in the line up as a DH. A thigh injury may not be a big deal, but he hadn’t pitched or played the field. Isn’t that a little curious?

            2. JP…not sure how the Japanese handle their injured players.
              Perhaps the Ham Fighters want to make sure they have a completely healthy valuable asset to sell stateside next season
              And this is not his first setback this year….he had an ankle issue and missed the WBC.

    2. matt13…..sometimes the turnaround, happens pretty unexpectedly fast, with just one plus addition and others maturing. Look what Sanchez did for the Yankees last season, then Judge comes on board….though he could regress and plateau at his minor league K rate and hit grade…but both have plus power and average/decent defensive metrics.
      And we could have that in Hoskins, Alfaro and then Cozens.
      As they say….it is always the darkest before the dawn.

      1. looking back in April 2016, you will think that the Phils is way ahead of the Yankees in competing again. The Phils have a deeper farm with less contractual commitment. With some luck and smart GM moves, the Yankees over take the Phils by a distance in contending and the Yankees are contending now and is poised to land a top arm come trade deadline.

        That’s what taking risks and smart GM maneuvers can do. With red flags written over Judge and Sanchez — the Yanks took the risk and give both sluggers the opportunity to show what they can do in the big leagues. almost 24 months into the McKlentak era — i’ve never seen any bold moves made.

        1. KuKo….do not forget the Chapman and Miller trades really bolstered their farm.
          But in reality…their pitching is very unstable and is not sustainable this season.
          They will need reliable healthy starters for sure.

          1. If our FO is believing in VV as a starter and they convince the NYY that he is as well, let’s explore what they might offer. If they’re willing to part with a top prospect, I would have to consider it. Upside and all, Velasquez is a project at the moment.

            An aside – what’s the Pirates pitching coach’s name? And how can we get him? He’s done wonders when it comes to projects.

            1. Ray Searage is the Pirate’s guy.
              And what would Cashman offer for VV….I would ask for Gleyber Torres off the bat.
              And when Cashman says no…then comeback for both Mateo and Sheffield.

          2. @romus – yup, miller and chapman bolstered their farm — but the Yanks played big boys game to acquire both RPs and aggressive turned it around for big time prospects (via bold and smart GM moves). the yanks also cashed in with the old and rental beltran and got a dillon tate!!

            our boy klentak got nothing by the deadline considering the Marlins are hot on Hellboy!

            1. KuKo…..yes, understand that.
              Seems Klentak is slow to react and indecisive.
              Perhaps paralysis by analysis.

        2. But I agree with you on the MacKlentak happenings.
          They seem to be hesitant on taking any risks.
          All these recent moves are mediocre and very average, especially with bullpen pitchers.

  24. I am hoping Romus, so getting my excitement from them and my hopes for Quinn, who should be in CBP in a month, and Kingery. Very disappointed in JP. Not giving up on him by any stretch, but disappointed. I want Middleton to go all out for Otani. That is a benchmark for me. I expect him to do exactly what he said he would do and spend whatever it takes for top level talent.

    1. i tried not to look at JPC as an offensive catalyst although it will look exciting to have a Quinn-JPC in the top of the order. the stat that i will be looking closely is the error. If JPC can play a GG defense at short stop and still keep the plate discipline (even not hitting at high average), he can still be of value to the Phils.

  25. Saunders in 8 hole last night. Tonight vs rhp? Bench. Not long before he’s history.

    1. This year’s veteran acquisitions, as a group, have been a profound disappointment. It’s not a huge deal (because there are no long term commitments), but it makes you question their ability to evaluate talent and retain the good and discard the bad which will be one of their primary tasks over the next two years.

  26. Romus – Thanks for the info on Gomez. Looks like they can’t even put him on the DL because they don’t have another reliever to bring up because none of the Triple A guys are on the forty man roster.

    Good article on Ali Joseph, TJ’s wife, in Monday’s USA Today. Tells a lot about their relationship. You all can probably google it. It’s a really nice read. Hope Joseph can make it as a major leaguer.

    The article about Klentek’s “excuses” really was absurd. GM speak if I ever heard/read. He still credits McClure for doing a good job. Guess he has to. I wish he spoke more about why he extended Mackanin.

    Finally, loved what Saunders had to say about his outlook on the season so far and about being dropped to 8th in the order. Very diplomatic. Especially liked when he said, “I know I’m going to be where I want to be at the end of the year”. Yeah, another team.

    1. Saunders!
      Unless he goes on some unbelievable hitting tear over the next 5/6 weeks…..the Phillies will get no calls for him in a deal.
      Other than Jeremy H. they may not have anyone to attractively dangle…..and even JH’s metrics are a little lower than last year , so matt K may have to sell really low.
      Of course, I would be happy with what the White Sox got from the O’s for Katz…..$750K in international mobney…at least let Sal Agostenelli go after and sign a Latin kid with potential.

  27. There will also be a number of SPs available in July Romus, so I am setting the Hellickson return bar very low. Neshek may be the best trade piece we have come July. And, I am really not being sarcastic. I did not see a need for Bucholz, Hellickson was enough of the “innings eater” veteran type, and Kendricks was sufficient for the “major league” hitter type. Nava could do whatever Saunders could. I am not complaining about the $ spent, but the talent evaluation skills of this group.

  28. The need to rethink there trading ways trade Prospects for ML players.JD Martinez 4 hole hitter there not signing him . Package Hoskins, Hellickson, Sanderson he’s a proven AL bat ,Neshek, Quinn . V Martinez is there DH he’s 38 , there rotation is filled with aging over priced vets . Hellickson better then Zimnernan and Sanchez right now . Throw Sanchez in deal he’s making 16 mil with a 5 mil club option next yr. I mean there 4 forth in salary and 2 games under 500 . Phillies also receive Alex Wilson and A Gose who hit 💯 in his pitchng debut.

    1. This is a trade I would seriously consider if the Tigers fell out of their race and Martinez became available. It does help the Tigers’ salary picture going forward and gives the Phils a proven clean-up hitter young enough to help the so-called rebuild.

  29. Yo, Pete. Why don’t you scramble the lineup again tonight only keep Freddy in the 2 hole. That seems to be the answer. Oh, the desperate mind of a pedestrian manager.

    1. 8mark….one game out from the Pads now.
      Smith , Baz, Beck next month….Beer in ’18….Otani in ’18 and Machado in ’19.
      Stay the course…remember the processed plan. 🙂

        1. Right on Romus. But it’s just like brain surgery. It’s supposed to make things better in the end but boy, how unpleasant in the preparation.

    2. Again Pete, tonight with the nonsensical lineup – Saunders batting 8th is utter negligence. Don’t bother playing the guy if you’re not gonna put him 4-6. That’s why you got him, Pete! If he stinks, bench him or release him. And Freddy #2. Please! Blanco in the 5 hole – why don’t you bat Hellickson cleanup while you’re at it?!?!? STUPID. Pick a lineup and stick with it, Pete. You’re like a woman trying on every dress in the freakin’ store.

  30. KuKo and Romus … beginning J2 2017, MLB teams can no longer bust their international budgets. Teams can trade for up to 75% of their initial pool allotment. The Phillies have a 4.75 million dollar J2 budget. They can trade for an additional 3.375 million. So, the absolute most money the Phillies can spend is 8.125 million dollars on international players under the age of 25. Right now, Shohei Otani (because of the new CBA) falls under this umbrella. The new CBA really neutralizes the Phillies’ league best payroll flexibility. I was convinced the Phillies could/would offer Otani the biggest contract. Now, they are handcuffed by the new CBA. As a matter of fact, smaller market teams can actually offer Otani the most money. The new CBA allows the DBacks, Rockies, Indians, Pirates, Royals, Orioles, and Cardinals (not sure if they’ve been penalized J2 money because of hacking scandal) to trade for up to 10 million dollars of J2 money.

    I think there is still hope for a “Shohei Otani Excemption” to the new CBA. There will also be creative ways for teams to offer Otani more money. Either way, I still believe the Phillies will do whatever they can to make Otani their first big acquisition in their rebuild. I’ve been saying for more than a year now … Otani in 2018, Machado in 2019 !!! This is why MacKlentak has stayed away from middling FA’s the past couple of years.

    1. If they’re successful in acquiring those pieces, the tune will be a whole lot more cheerful from the rank and file around here. Rocco’s Requiem is getting too much air time on this station.

    2. Hinkie…yes…so the time to do it is before June 15th, 2017. The WSox did it last week with Luis Robert. The Phillies will not
      Otani could be , like you said, outside the Phillies reach. I had already read where the Padres are going to go strong and have already hired his personal trainer and brought him stateside to San Diego. And they are under the penalty I believe.

      1. But Romus, I read that Otani likely won’t sign until the off season. SD’s bonus period ends before J2, no?

      2. Yes. The Padres busted their budget last year and are in the J2 penalty box for 2017 and 2018. The new CBA calls for all MLB teams to hire a clubhouse chef. My plan has been for the Phillies to hire Iron Chef Masaharu Morimoto. They could offer Otani the finest sushi and other Japanese cuisine in MLB. It’s the little things (in addition to a big, fat contract) that might win Otani’s heart. People think I’m kidding. I’m not. They need too think outside the box. Send Pat Gillick, Charlie Manuel, and Iron Chef Morimoto to Japan to sell Otani on Philadelphia.

  31. Holy crap sports net reporting pef fanrag The Phillies would be interested in signing Harper in 2018. No lie

    1. That was posted a day ago. Amazing that didn’t get more attention although it’s not exactly revelatory. But more tangible coming from an actual source from within.

      1. Another article from FanRag Sports’ Robert Murray basically describes the potential acquisition of Mike Trout come 2020 upon his fees agency, in lieu of the Harper pursuit. The only obstacle to that happening, he suggests, is time itself. 3 years is a long time in baseball. Everything else – money, local ties, the Phillies upward trend over the next 3 yrs – says it should, not just could, happen. The writer even mentions that the possibility has been traveling around baseball circles for a couple years now. Dream? Maybe. But not an impossible one by any stretch. Question is do we as a fan base have the stomach to wait.

        1. Mike Trout is not coming here. His girlfriend loves the west coast.. according to what i have heard. We can get maybe a couple of 35 yr old players who are washed up. If sheldon likes the stats he will bring them in to help us.

          1. Roc, he and his girlfriend can live out there in the off season except for his occasional hunting trip with Carson and games at the Linc. Who knows? He might dump her by 2020.

          2. But Roc Philly does have Cheese steaks , prezel ,Scrapple, tasty Cake . Tony Luke’s ,Chicky& Pete’s , plus when the name it too .500 this yr you will be a national celebrity .

        2. Mike Trout’s fiance is also his HS sweetheart from Millville HS. I live minutes from Millville. Trout has built a nice, new house on hundreds of acres in the area. He spends his off-seasons here, trains with current Millville HS draft prospect Buddy Kennedy (#184 on BA’s Top 200), and is an Eagles season ticket holder. The next contract he signs will be with either one of two teams … the Angels or Phillies.
          BTW … before Trout, the biggest name from my area was Don Money.

          1. I have Joe Flacco, Doolittle, etc Johnny Hockey and have the NBA if from New Jersey.

  32. Tim – You lost me. Are you saying they should trade for J.D. Martinez? If he is not going to resign with the Tigers and probably test the FA waters, why would you trade for him? Could you explain that again for me, please. I’m confused!

    1. Ciada it’s easy the Phillies will control his rights before he hits the trade market. They could sign before the season ends to a long term contract. Why does any team trade at the deadline for soon to be free agents .Some teams get rental players so don’t the new CbA might be a little different .

    2. Why would he want to come here?? You are having pipe dreams. This team would have to overpay so bad. They would never be able to get the pitching they need. I said this in beginning of season. there starters stink.. You have a bunch of back end guys on this team. and nothing for a while in minors that would help.

  33. Eric Long had a chat was asked about Kingery plus hit,plus speed, plus plus glove. He did say the power could be Reading but the home, away splits are great.

  34. Romus. i know you will know this answer. Did any city have all four teams, get the first pick in the draft in one year.I think we have a year

    1. rocco……good question….do not have a clue…and there are cities with only three pro teams. I would think New York at some point with nine pro teams…counting Devils and old Nets….may have one from each sport.

    2. Flyers will be better they were 6 games over 500 this yr. They have massive talent coming up.

        1. Yeah right. They are the same as other teams in this town. Havent won since 76. They have a bad gm who will screw up the draft. I been hearing about there talent. but they let go coaches who have gone on to win multiple stanley cups dont trust there direct or ownership

          1. Roccom Hextall is bringing the Flyers back ask any I mean anybody that knows hockey. He couldn’t do anything​ at first too many bad contracts. The Flyers had no cap room now they have enough to sign who they want . His drafts are paying off Hugh The Ghost, Ivan Provorov, Travis Konecny, Micheal Vecchione, Jordan Weal.there up with the Flyers next up Anthony Stolarz G ,Alex Lyon G , Carter Hart G,Felix Sanstorm G . Philliipe Myers D, Travis Sanheim D ,Samuel Morin D Hagg D. Oskar Lindblom F and either Nolan Patrick or Nico Hischier A1 or A2 in this yrs draft both can play in the NHL now. I like Nico I know this is Baseball board . I just wanted to give the Philly fans to know there is hope.

  35. by the time i put the TV each night, the game has already been decided. If my math is right, this will be loss 12 in 14, and with tonights current 7-0 score, they have been outscored 85 to 35 in those 12 losses.

  36. some interesting comments from Matthew Pouliout on rotoworld tonight- he also had Hellickson listed as 5th most likely pitcher to get traded, 2nd most likely starter:
    I wasn’t impressed by how Phillies manager Pete Mackanin handled his bullpen earlier this year, and I don’t like how he’s juggled his lineup of late. I understand the frustration with Odubel Herrera, who just isn’t having good at-bats, but lumping Maikel Franco in with Herrera while Franco is doing pretty much everything you’d like from plate discipline, flyball/groundball and exit velocity standpoints is a mistake. Sitting Michael Saunders against right-handers makes no sense. Batting Freddy Galvis second has never ever been a good idea. If it were my call, I’d stay the course with the Phillies’ current starting eight. Rhys Hoskins has been great in Triple-A, but Tommy Joseph has been the Phillies’ best hitter of late and neither can play anywhere other than first. Calling up Roman Quinn as a part-time outfielder could be an option, but while he’s been better lately, he’s still hitting a modest .276/.347/.362 with 46 strikeouts in 152 at-bats in Triple-A; I’d rather leave him down there for at least a few more weeks. The Phillies should get Howie Kendrick (oblique) back in a couple of weeks, with will help some.

    – The Phillies also have to be frustrated by Vince Velasquez’s performance, though I don’t imagine the solution is moving him to the bullpen. Maybe that’s where Velasquez will ultimately show he belongs, but if that’s the case, it can happen next year, when the Phillies are hopefully ready to compete for at least a wild card spot. Velasquez has struck out 45 in 43 2/3 innings this season. His command has regressed, but that’d be a bigger long-term concern if he hadn’t already shown last year that he can limit the walks to three per nine innings. The biggest problem is that he’s allowed nine homers in 43 2/3 innings, but that could be something of a mirage; he’s actually greatly improved his groundball rate this year after opening his career as an extreme flyball pitcher. I’m not recommending grabbing him in mixed leagues in which he’s available, partly because he’s still such an injury risk, but I do expect significant improvement.

    1. Agree with your points except any embedded optimism over the return for Hellickson. I don’t say this lightly, the Phils will get nothing of value for him. Teams with money will find better available and bargain contenders will offer the kind of lesser prospect the Phils turned down last year from the Orioles when Hellickson’s contract was reasonable. The Phils may pay off his contract and still get next to nothing. Re-signing Hellickson was a bonehead move.

      1. just to be clear, those werent my comments, they were of a guy who writes for rotoworld.

      2. Who did they turn down from the Orioles? I know they almost got Josh Naylor for him 1-for-1.

        If they can get a Victor Arano back for Hellickson, that’s fine. I moreso just want his rotation spot open for Jake Thompson, Nick Pivetta, or Ben Lively.

  37. This is as pathetic as I can remember. Time to start reading up on #1 candidates in next year’s draft.

  38. Mac losing this team losing will do that. There doing the hardest kind of rebuild waiting for prospect to come of age with no major signings.nobody ever done it with just prospects . No trade help this team s used to losing that’s bad. It’s an regressive rebuild.

  39. Can’t totally blame the Phillies for these last three losses to the Rockies. After all, they faced Bob Gibson, Greg Maddox, and Don Drysdale in the three games.

  40. Let’s see if the Phillies can go 30-70 by the trade deadline, turn the roster over to the youth and go 32-30 the last 2 months. We could still get next year’s #1 pick and enjoy the kids in Aug and Sept.

  41. Mark my words – Vince Velasquez will one day pitcheck a no hit, no run 9 inning game. Only problem is it’ll take 6 hours. Kid’s got great stuff. Painful to watch.

    1. 8mark…great stuff?
      He has a plus-plus 4Smr FB, I would grade at …..60/65.
      The CU and Slider at 50/55….which to me is average to slightly above.
      Command……50…on his best day……he doesn’t get past the 5th inning wih=th any less than 90/95 pitches.

  42. Another 0-2 home-run, I really don’t get it. Waste something in the dirt or throw a high fastball… Pitch shouldn’t be anywhere near the zone 0-2.

  43. I posted in another forum, but through four innings, Velasquez’s pitch selection was:

    64 fastballs
    14 curveballs
    3 sliders
    2 changeups

    There is no way a pitcher can make it using two pitches. It is a problem in the system – don’t have many 3 pitch pitchers. We have relegated the pitchers to 2 pitches.

    1. He has a good change up, I’d like to see him use it a lot more. Velasquez should ride his fastball though, I don’t mind him throwing it as much as he did. His problem is spotting it. If he can get consistent with location you’ll see him get deeper into games.

      All and all, I think he pitched very well today. 5 innings, 1 run against a line up that’s decimated our pitching staff. Other than that (awful) 0-2 pitch he was fine.

      1. I don’t think his CU is good at all in fact its darn near horrible. That said I like VV and think they should stay the course with him as a starter.

        Look at a guy like Carlos Martinez he’s finally starting to put it together.

        If you want to see an excellent RH change-up watch Marco Estrada who by the way is a FA after this season. He barely throws more than 91 yet he has a 10.1 K/9 this season and lefties hit 216 with a 633 OPS against him.

        That OPS figure is 100 points better than what righties do against him

    2. I commented on this the other day. It’s fastball, curve – again and again and, frankly, other than a killer curve, like the one Eickhoff throws, I’m not that big of a fan of showing too many curve balls – it’s the easiest breaking ball for a major leaguer to hit. Maybe the catcher calls it, but someone is coaching the catcher and the pitchers, right? This is a big failure somewhere in the organization.

  44. Doobie with an awful day and down to .228. He is probably the biggest disappointment of the season to me, more than Franco. The BP which has had a good few days on the bright side.

    1. matt13…….he is a very talented and skilled player, but not a player that I would prefer on the team when fighting for a contending playoff position in August/September.

      1. I don’t think he’s on the next contending team, I really don’t. I think they signed him with the idea he would create surplus value and be a tradable commodity ala Adam Eaton.

        I really want to see him get on a hot streak and make himself into a marketable player or a guy we can package with a Tommy Joseph and prospects for a front line type of pitcher (like a Sonny Gray).

      2. You may end up being right, but I’d like to give him some time to turn this around. Sometimes guys screw up the first year after a big contract and fix it. But I do like the idea of putting these guys under the heat by bringing up other players.

    2. 5 ABS, 5 Ks – worse than the golden sombrero. Golden crown? I think he got a little fat and happy this offseason – baseball is too hard of a sport to coast. Hopefully he learns from it and adjusts.

      1. People forget that his late-season surge in 2016 was the result of Quinn’s call-up, Herrera even admitted that! I don’t think you then turn around and hand him a long-term contract. This is like Vinny Curry with the Eagles. Got paid, and the intensity disappeared.

        1. Not sure about that Herrera had a really consistent year in 2016. Aside from a tough July he hit all of his marks the whole way through.

          He’s just too aggressive right now he needs to get back to what made him successful last year taking his walks.

      2. And while we are at it, until Mikael Franco learns to hit or at least foul off a slider (and not swing a sliders way out of the zone), he will not be an effective major league hitter. If you cannot hit a pitch, the advance scouts will figure it out and you’ll just get that pitch shoved down your throat until you learn to handle it or until you’re out of the big leagues. It’s that simple.

        1. Same thing happened to Dayan Viciedo. A stellar start to his career and he is 26 now out of the MLB.

        2. If you really want to shake up and wake up Franco and Doobie, send them both to Lehigh. Kendrick can play 3b when he returns from rehab. Quinn should come up and play cf. I’m not sure what Herrera’s option situation is but I believe Franco still has one left. Give them a few weeks eating with the Pigs and see who’s hungrier to get back to CBP sooner.

  45. Tojo ,Tojo, ToJo , Tojo, finally now tomorrow . The Rockies will win the West Might win the World series.

  46. I want to get this onto the correct thread but I can understand that Morgana thinks by week’s end, this thread has been used up or spent. I know that you, Jim, are working hard on this and that it is incredibly time consuming.

    Is it possible to have an early week update and then start another “later week update” so the poster doesn’t need to scroll down so far to get to it? Just a thought and again, Jim, thanks for “your” service.

    Finally, on the Mets TV broadcast last night, the sensational Gary Cohen called Herera’s feat from yesterday’s eleven inning game a “platinum sombrero”.

    1. Just wanted to acknowledge your suggestion. I tried this a couple years ago, the week of the Chase Utley trade. I asked for feed back regarding posting a mid-week, and received none. Granted that post generated a lot of heated discussion, but we don’t trade a potential hall of famer for “org players” every week. (Note: “org players” was just one of the references argued the rest of that week.)

      The number of comments has made me consider a “mid-week”, but I’m not ready to commit to one. I’m already posting 2 weekly and 7 daily articles under formats I’m not fond of.

  47. rocco…there you go…Dr Sheldon Cooper on the left and an aged Dr Leonard Hofstadler on the right….trust the process for the rebuild.

    1. Damn – now that you mention it, he DOES look like Sheldon Cooper.

      Knock Knock Knock – “Peter”
      Knock Knock Knock – “Peter”
      Knock Knock . . . . .
      “Come in already, Matt!”

    2. lmao looks like the episode when sheldon is trying to win a contest against leonard and the gang. the russian janitor is our manager

    1. I can’t figure out whether to be happy because they wrote a nice piece about him or annoyed because they view him as a fringe prospect. Cameron Perkins is a fringe prospect. Taylor Featherston is a fringe prospect. Scott Kingery is NOT a fringe prospect and, in fact, I think he is now our best prospect. There, I said it – I’ve got Kingery #1 on my list and I don’t think I’m going to second guess this one later.

      1. It’s. Daily write they do, If seen some Really good prospects on there . Me too he’s in my top. 3

      2. For what it’s worth Cistulli doesn’t decide who’s fringe individually- he just excludes any prospect who’s shown up on a major top 100 list/Sickels’s top 200 list.

  48. I wonder if someone has the stats that show the numbers for the Phils’ hitters without including hits when the game is out of reach? Last night, again, 1 lousy hit, from Blanco, until the 9th Inning. Game 5-0 and Doobie doubles off of a scrub RP. It has happened a lot. Meaningless numbers making a terrible season look a little less so. Not just picking on Doobie, but the whole team. It is a lot less difficult to hit off of a guy trying to throw FB strikes to close out a blowout. And, why would Mac bat Doobie leadoff?

  49. I never thought i would say this .cause i loved franco. but he needs to go down to wise up with his approach to the plate, and so does doobie. I mean they are so bad, its amazing. Franco took 10 million against futrue earings like johnthan singelton did. smart move. cause he could be out of baseball the way he is playing

    1. I’ve been thinking about the team, its various players and their doldrums.

      The Phillies are at a very intricate phase of their roster building where young veterans and prospects are all mingling about and trying to get playing time. Right now, they need to focus on roster construction and, fortunately for them, they have just the man to help with that. Nobody I have ever seen is as good at sifting through players and getting rid of problem players and acquiring or identifying key pieces as Pat Gillick. Gillick is good at some things, fair at other things, and absolutely great at certain things. And one of the things he is great at is getting rid of the wrong guys on a roster and putting the right guys in a leadership position. If I were management, I’d be sitting down for a while with Pat seeking his opinions. Frankly, my view of this is that some of the young veterans have become way too comfortable and self-satisfied. I think someone has to go if only to scare the heck out of the other guys and reward the guys who go about their business the right way.

    2. It was $4.35M for 10% of his future earnings. A steep price to pay for a short term financial solution.

      Perhaps he is playing with the mental burden of supporting his family.

  50. Tojo is a real player. Either trade him or keep Hoskins in AAA.

    29HR 71RBI through 150 career major league games after having not played consistently for 4 years due to injury.

    Look at his games played:
    2012: 108
    2013: 36
    2014: 27
    2015: 58
    2016: 134

    Would hate to lose his progress after a Hoskins call up.

    1. Tojo hasn’t even had 500 ML at bats he has 29 homeruns,at 600 at bats he could 40+ . He’s learning on the go at the ML level even to play first.

  51. Inning before ToJo’s walk off, Hernandez fans with a runner on third and one out. That’s what riles me. Put the bat on the ball!

  52. I admit when i am wrong. Someone posted how great asher is and we shouldnt have traded him. I sorry i every doubted you. He started todays game and was brilliant

        1. Yeah…tough game for Alec today….that’s the way it is sometimes, Minute Maid can take the juice out of opposing pitchers.

        2. rocco…someone posted this on
          MacPhail and Klentak together at Baltimore 2008-2011.
          Orioles Record:
          2008- 68-93
          2009- 64-98
          2010- 66-96
          2011- 69-93
          ….they need to purge that period that from their records.

          1. They talked about MacPhail on wip the other day he is under 500 running a club. i hope middleton gets smarts and get a real gm and president who has won before to run this team. Raid the cubs and boston and braves for scouts. How did turner wind up in washington.?

            1. How do you know who will be good or not?
              Theo may be an exception to the rule…success in Boston and then in Chicago.
              Look at mangers…Tito…..failed in Philly as a manage and succeeded everywhere else…Boston and Cleveland.
              Astros got the asst GM, Luhnow from the Cardinals four/five years ago….and he has turned them around.
              I thought Matt Klentak would be the guy to get back in 2015 after RAJ.
              I may have been wrong.
              I hope not…..but if they finish at the bottom or near it, of the league this year,,….and then again in ’18, next year….he will be gone along with MacPhail I assume.
              Middleton would seem to want to move in another direction

  53. My point is we need a guy to put together a winning organization. scouts who find those gems after the first round. I Dont trust this brain trust. and there scouts.

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