Open Discussion: Week of May 15th

And another disappointing week.  The Phillies scored 15 runs in two games against the Mariners and lost both games, blowing a 9-5 lead in one game and allowing 8 runs after the 6th inning in the other.  then they dropped two of three to the Nationals.  The Phillies’ bullpen absorbed all 4 losses this week.

The Phillies’ 1-4 record during the week dropped their record to 14-21 (.400).   Somrhow they crept back up to third place.  They continue their road trip with 3 games in Texas and 3 in Pittsburgh.  Now, with the “difficult” part of their schedule over with, we’ll see how the Phillies do from this point on.

Here’s the open discussion thread for Phillies’ talk and other topics.

Key dates remaining:

  • June 3rd – DSL Phillies’ seasons begin
  • June 12-14th – Rule 4 Draft
  • June 19th – Williamsport’s season begins
  • June 26th – GCL Phillies’ season begins
  • July 31st – Non-waiver Trade Deadline
  • December 10-14th – Winter Meetings in Orlando
  • December 14th – Rule 5 Draft

Extra Innings

The Phillies are middle of the pack in most offensive categories.  Starters not named Buchholz have a 4.45 ERA and an 8-9 record.  Phillies relievers have a 4.69 ERA and a 6-11 record with 9 blown saves.

In 35 starts (191.2 IP), all Phillies starters have given up 33 HR, 60 BB, 145 K, and 1.37 WHIP.

in 110 appearances (119.0 IP), the bullpen has given up 24 HR, 55 BB, 104 K, and 1.45 WHIP.

Transactions: (includes roster juggling paper moves)

  • 5/14 – Phillies recalled Ben Lively from Lehigh Valley IronPigs.
  • 5/13 – RHP Tyler Viza assigned to Reading Fightin Phils from Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 5/13 – SS Jorge Flores assigned to Lehigh Valley IronPigs from Reading Fightin Phils.
  • 5/13 – Lehigh Valley IronPigs placed 2B Jesmuel Valentin on the 7-day disabled list. Left shoulder strain.
  • 5/12 – Phillies recalled RHP Luis Garcia from Lehigh Valley IronPigs.
  • 5/11 – LHP Zach Morris assigned to Lakewood BlueClaws from Phillies Ext. Spring Training.
  • 5/11 – RHP Sixto Sanchez assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from Lakewood BlueClaws.
  • 5/11 – Phillies optioned RHP Jake Thompson to Lehigh Valley IronPigs.
  • 5/10 – Lakewood BlueClaws released 3B Danny Zardon.
  • 5/10 – SS Raul Rivas assigned to Lakewood BlueClaws from GCL Phillies.
  • 5/10 – Tyler Viza assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from Reading Fightin Phils.
  • 5/10 – Reading Fightin Phils activated RHP John Richy from the 7-day disabled list.
  • 5/10 – Phillies optioned RHP Jake Thompson to Lehigh Valley IronPigs.
  • 5/9 – Austin Davis assigned to Clearwater Threshers from Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 5/9 – Jose Taveras assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from Clearwater Threshers.
  • 5/9 – Wander Perez assigned to Lehigh Valley IronPigs from Reading Fightin Phils.
  • 5/9 – Phillies placed RHP Jeanmar Gomez on the 10-day disabled list retroactive to May 6, 2017. Right elbow impingement.
  • 5/9 – Phillies sent RHP Aaron Nola on a rehab assignment to Lehigh Valley IronPigs.
  • 5/9 – RHP Casey Fien assigned to Lehigh Valley IronPigs.
  • 5/9 – Seattle Mariners traded RHP Casey Fien to Philadelphia Phillies for cash.
  • 5/9 – Phillies recalled Ty Kelly from Lehigh Valley IronPigs.
  • 5/8 – RHP Tom Eshelman assigned to Lehigh Valley IronPigs from Reading Fightin Phils.
  • 5/8 – LHP Wander Perez assigned to Reading Fightin Phils from Lehigh Valley IronPigs.
  • 5/7 – Austin Davis assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from Clearwater Threshers.
  • 5/7 – Seranthony Dominguez assigned to Clearwater Threshers from Phillies Ext. Spring Training.
  • 5/6 – RHP Harold Arauz assigned to Lakewood BlueClaws from Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 5/6 – LHP Zach Morris assigned to Phillies Ext. Spring Training from Lakewood BlueClaws.
  • 5/5 – Phillies recalled Jake Thompson from Lehigh Valley IronPigs
  • 5/5 – Phillies optioned Ty Kelly to Lehigh Valley IronPigs
  • 5/4 – Phillies signed free agent LHP Luis Suarez to a minor league contract.
  • 5/4 – RHP Matt Hockenberry assigned to Clearwater Threshers from Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 5/3 – Clearwater Threshers placed LHP Tyler Gilbert on the 7-day disabled list.
  • 5/2 – RHP Tyler Viza assigned to Reading Fightin Phils from Lehigh Valley IronPigs.
  • 5/2 – Osmel Aguila assigned to Reading Fightin Phils from Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 5/2 – Reading Fightin Phils placed 3B Harold Martinez on the 7-day disabled list. Lower back strain.
  • 5/2 – Seranthony Dominguez assigned to Phillies Ext. Spring Training from Clearwater Threshers.
  • 5/2 – Ranfi Casimiro assigned to Clearwater Threshers from Williamsport Crosscutters
  • 5/2 – Harold Arauz assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from Lakewood BlueClaws.
  • 5/2 – RHP Felix Paulino assigned to Lakewood BlueClaws from Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 4/30 – Phillies optioned RHP Luis Garcia to Lehigh Valley IronPigs.
  • 4/30 – Phillies recalled RHP Nick Pivetta from Lehigh Valley IronPigs.
  • 4/30 – RHP Tyler Viza assigned to Lehigh Valley IronPigs from Reading Fightin Phils.
  • 4/30 – RHP Shane Watson assigned to Reading Fightin Phils from Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 4/30 – RHP Blake Quinn assigned to Clearwater Threshers from Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 4/30 – RHP Ranfi Casimiro assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from Clearwater Threshers.
  • 4/30 – RHP Mauricio Llovera assigned to Lakewood BlueClaws from Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 4/30 – Lakewood BlueClaws released RHP Kenny Koplove.
  • 4/29 – Felix Paulino assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from Lakewood BlueClaws.
  • 4/29 – Lakewood BlueClaws activated RHP Trevor Bettencourt from the 7-day disabled list.
  • 4/28 – RHP Mauricio Llovera assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from Lakewood BlueClaws.
  • 4/28 – RHP Harold Arauz assigned to Lakewood BlueClaws from Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 4/27 – 1B Darick Hall assigned to Lakewood BlueClaws from Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 4/27 – 1B Alex Wojciechowski assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from Lakewood BlueClaws.
  • 4/27 – Cole Irvin assigned to Clearwater Threshers from Phillies Ext. Spring Training.
  • 4/27 – Keudy Bocio assigned to Phillies Ext. Spring Training from Clearwater Threshers.
  • 4/26 – RHP Harold Arauz assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from Lakewood BlueClaws.
  • 4/26 – LHP Ranger Suarez assigned to Lakewood BlueClaws from Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 4/26 – Reading Fightin Phils activated SS Jorge Flores from the 7-day disabled list.
  • 4/26 – RHP Shane Watson assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from Reading Fightin Phils.
  • 4/25 – RHP Blake Quinn assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from Clearwater Threshers.
  • 4/25 – 2B Keudy Bocio assigned to Clearwater Threshers from DSL Phillies.
  • 4/24 – RHP Seranthony Dominguez assigned to Clearwater Threshers from Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 4/24 – Phillies placed RHP Aaron Nola on the 10-day disabled list retroactive to April 21, 2017. Lower back strain.
  • 4/23 LHP Cole Irvin assigned to Phillies Ext. Spring Training from Clearwater Threshers.
  • 4/22 LHP Ranger Suarez assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from Lakewood BlueClaws
  • 4/22 RHP Felix Paulino assigned to Lakewood BlueClaws from Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 4/22 Phillies transferred RHP Clay Buchholz from the 10-day disabled list to the 60-day disabled list. Torn flexor tendon in right elbow.
  • 4/22 Toronto Blue Jays traded 3B Ty Kelly to Philadelphia Phillies for cash.
  • 4/21 LHP Joey DeNato assigned to Reading Fightin Phils from Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 4/21 RHP Matt Hockenberry assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from Reading Fightin Phils.
  • 4/21 Phillies activated RHP Pat Neshek from the paternity list.
  • 4/21 Phillies optioned RHP Ben Lively to Lehigh Valley IronPigs.
  • 4/20 – Seranthony Dominguez assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from Clearwater Threshers.
  • 4/20 – Franklyn Kilome assigned to Clearwater Threshers from Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 4/19 – Phillies placed RHP Pat Neshek on the paternity list.
  • 4/19 – Lehigh Valley IronPigs activated RHP Colton Murray from the 7-day disabled list.
  • 4/19 – Phillies recalled RHP Ben Lively from Lehigh Valley IronPigs.
  • 4/19 – RHP Felix Paulino assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from Lakewood BlueClaws.
  • 4/19 – RHP Kenny Koplove assigned to Lakewood BlueClaws from Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 4/18 – Phillies placed LF Howie Kendrick on the 10-day disabled list retroactive to April 16, 2017. Right abdominal strain.
  • 4/18 – Phillies placed RHP Clay Buchholz on the 10-day disabled list retroactive to April 15, 2017. Torn flexor tendon in right forearm.
  • 4/18 – Phillies signed free agent RHP Carlos Francisco to a minor league contract.
  • 4/18 – Phillies signed free agent RHP Alexis Herrera to a minor league contract.
  • 4/18 – Phillies selected the contract of RHP Mark Leiter from Lehigh Valley IronPigs.
  • 4/18 – Phillies recalled RHP Zach Eflin from Lehigh Valley IronPigs.
  • 4/18 – LHP Wander Perez assigned to Lehigh Valley IronPigs from Reading Fightin Phils.
  • 4/18 – Lakewood BlueClaws placed RHP Trevor Bettencourt on the 7-day disabled list retroactive to April 16, 2017.
  • 4/18 – LHP JoJo Romero assigned to Lakewood BlueClaws from Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • The organization rosters are almost up to date.


148 thoughts on “Open Discussion: Week of May 15th

  1. VV 5 ings 3 walks 2 wp he needs to get better command . He’s a starter but he needs to really settle in a Grove. You could by Mac’s pulling Garcia after the double by Goodwin he just doesn’t have confidence in him. The Phillies really need 2 left handed relivers. The Phillies were 5 and 7 against the nats so far.I do think they can play better against non Harper teams. Texas is on a 6 game winning steak. Pitt sucks so maybe they can win some series.

    1. Season is lost. Rather get higher draft pick and blow up latin market. Winning is almost impossible with this team. They lack almost everything you need to be a winner. They have good defense. some speed. But bad starters bad bullpen. lack of clutch hitting. Not enough walks. they tend not to be patient. Cant hit with runners on and two outs. from what i have seen , But thru the history of sports in this city, we tend to do the right thing win meaning less games. It cost us oj Simpson. Jim Pluckett. and Two recent kids in happ and kid in boston . Sixers do it and keep picking hurt players. but i rather lose now and go get a stud in the draft , if there is one next year. A HARPER OR MACHADO. not a ok or good player. Stud player Franchise player.. But i know most of you rather win 5 more games then pick first.

      1. That’s really not true. They’ve actually had a lot of two out hitting this year and they’ve come back quite a bit. They’ve had 9th inning comebacks. Their problem had been pitching. Their starters can’t last deep into games and their relievers constantly give up big hits and can’t hold leads. It’s a long year and the goal is still 81 wins, not a playoff spot. One good winning streak and the team is back near 500.

        1. They are 18th in risp. so i guess thats great. And if they win 81 games i run naked down broad street. Wishing is a lot different they reality. I Know your a fan like me. but how after seeing this team can you think its only pitching. I guess its me.

          1. There Bp keeps blowing it ,they come back . Playing the Nats so many times is crazy but they played them tough. Btw I’ll take your word on the 🏃 naked thing I don’t need

        2. I don’t know why people make a distinction between going .500 and missing the playoffs, and going under .500 and missing the playoffs. Missing the playoffs is the important thing.

          I don’t feel any better going .500. Maybe a better measurement is amount of players that can contribute to a playoff team. That’s the number that we want to grow.

          1. There is a distinction. If the goal is to get to say 90 wins, getting to 90 from 80 wins is easier than from 70 wins. Having 80 wins implies that there are already some pieces there (because you got to 80 wins) and all you may need is perhaps 1 good FA. Getting to 90 from 70 is a monumental task, you need A LOT of things to go your way.

            1. You can get lucky, too, to get up to .500. I still don’t prefer it.

              80 wins could mean you were a lucky 70 win team or an unlucky 90 win team.

              Going from 70 to 90 wins from year to year shouldn’t be that difficult. From 2014-2015 the Cubs increased their win total from 73 to 97. This was when the right players finally came together. In the same year, the Rangers went from 67 to 88.

              I know that there aren’t too many examples, but there also aren’t that many 90 win teams year to year. There are many large win total swings, both upward and downward.

              I think the win total is arbitrary, and that the players are the important part.

            2. Kansas City Royals went from\ 72 in 2012 to 86 in 2013, then 89 in ’14 and then 95 in ’15 then they fell. .

            3. Bear in mind that come Aug 1, there may very likely be a drastically different 25 man roster with a surge of youthful energy that may boost the win total giving the team a legit shot at .500 or close to it. That alone isn’t necessarily an indicator of how many wins next year because the same younger players will be adjusted to by the league and subsequently they’ll have to adjust.

            4. I think it depends upon how you get 81 wins. If you do it with youngish players who are/can be a part of the next winning core, that is a big positive and a pointer to 90+ wins happening soon. If you get to 81 wins based upon short-term FA vets who aren’t going to be part of the next contending core, then it is not really a step forward to contention. If we get 81 wins based upon good years from Altherr, Franco, Herrera, Rupp, Joseph/Hoskins and the younger pitchers = great progress pointing to a better future shortly down the road. If we rise based upon plus years from Kendrick, Saunders, Nava, Hellickson, Benoit and the older relievers = just don’t do as well in the draft as we might otherwise have done and no real progress toward contention.

        3. The win against Nats the other night was the 1st game they won after trailing after 8th inning.

        1. No lets win some meaning less games in September. and get another Leroy Keyes instead of O.j Simpson. its must be me. but 500 is not what i want . i want more talent and a new Sheldon to run this team. Stats are great but to make a point. Would stats have told you altheer was ready no, it was a coach who made him change his hands.

          1. rocco….ok, before you take a walk up to the top of the Walt Whitman, the Phillies currently stand to draft 5th next year.
            Its too early to be thinking to tank, but even a top 10 pick can be a good choice, though I do understand the frustration of the ‘ one pick to late scenario’, ie Cubs selecting Happ at 9.
            This year should also be a good selection.
            I do agree with your above premise….but the bank on a Cuban prospect like a Luis Robert….right away he becomes a top 5 prospect in the Phillies system…and two year penalties are nothing anymore …heck they get most of the best Latin players up until now, for less than $300K signing bonus’ anyway.
            I look at three of seven players like Pujols, Encarnacion and to some extent Gamboa, out of the Tocci/Grullon/Brito/Ortiz ’11 thru ’15 signings, at $500K plus and so far the net result is not good.

            1. The problem is, the Phils do not seem to be hitting on these top picks. The jury is still out, but early returns on Crawford, Nola, Randolph and Moniak are mixed at best. There is no one in that group that is screaming out super stud. I would feel much better if at least 2, which is not asking a lot considering where they are picking, had the clear makings of a future All Star.

              If we are going to endure these God awful teams, I at least want the front office to be selecting players at the top of the draft that are clearly going to turn the franchise around. These baseball seasons are so long that I really find it hard to wish them away hoping we lose and get a higher draft pick, especially considering the high miss rate in the baseball draft. The draft is really not supposed to be the most exciting part of the season!

          2. I don’t agree to the concept of tanking, but I saw no reason to have Saunders and Nava on a rebuilding team. Don’t care that the manager wanted veteran bats. His job is to build up the kids. I also saw less than zero reason to bring Ty Kelley here. He has no appreciable up side. Give me Quinn or Perkins instead, and or a lot more Stassi in LF.

            1. If anything, Saunders is helping them to tank.

              I don’t think they’re as bad as they’ve played this year. They were doing just fine before they went out to LA and started playing the best teams in the league (Dodgers, Cubs, Nats twice).

          3. Bedrock…..yeah.
            That is the frustrating thing about it.
            MLB draft picks take awhile or some do not come through at all, when all is said and done. The first picks so far are not of the Harper/Strasburg variety of talent.
            However, IMO, they for sure, barring injuries, will be MLB players…it is just the unknown of how high of stature they will achieve

          4. Simpson was the guy we wanted, but Leroy Keyes was destroyed by injury. The #2 pick in the NFL should contribute a lot more than Keyes did.

  2. I feel like when he has the fastball he has last night, he needs to use it more. He got hit hard on off speed pitches I believe.

  3. Not that it would make a huge difference but thanks to the MLB office scheduling department for having us play the Gnats 12 of the season’s first 35 games, along with other assorted playoff contenders. And who do I complain to about having 3 off days in the last 8. I can see if it was August (maybe) but the first 6 weeks? There’s more inclement weather in the spring while the dog days are called the dog days for a reason.

    Why is it necessary to have such an uneven schedule when MLB could schedule every team vs its own division 18 games (9 home, 9 away), the other 2 league divisions 6 games (3 home, 3 away). Then you simply play one division in the other league 6 games (3 home, 3 away), and rotate every 3 years. Why this mess?

    On the other hand, 16 of the final 19 regular season games are at CBP, when we’ll have a revamped 25 man roster to get excited about.

    1. I have no idea how to research this, but I reckon two teams playing each other a dozen times in the first 35 games of the season has to be a record.

      The NFL does this right–scheduling the divisional games more on the backend.

      Now, I know the baseball schedule is much more complex; but opening with 12 of your first 35 against a divisional opponent is nuts.

      1. What to me is more nuts if to cast a pre season favorite to win division with a bottom of division team. makes to me not a lot of sense.

        1. rocco….well the Philies will not see them again until Sept 7th…so they get a three month reprieve.

    2. I Like your idea 8mark. Why Do we have to see mets-yankees , marlins-rays , and other close proximity rivals every year, it would make it more special if it was every 3 years. let’s send this to the commish!

      1. $$$.

        Interleague play was started with the idea that fans would fill stadiums to see natural match-up games, Mets-Yankees, Dodgers-Angels, etc.

        Some of the remainder of the match-ups had to be contrived. I agree that with the expansion of interleague play, it makes sense to shift to a more balanced approach.

  4. The Phillies entered ’16 in full rebuild and had just acquired a dynamic young pitcher (VV) with great upside. All scouting reports said his FB was off the charts, and his CH (#2) and CB (#3) may be good too. Challenges were that a) his secondary pitches needed much refinement and experience (barely threw the CH, and almost only to LHH), b) he did not have good command (regularly high BB rate), and c) he did not locate his pitches (even strikes) very well. (Both the latter always led to high pitch counts)

    While my dad was totally rooting for VV to make the club, I repeatedly said No. On a team going nowhere why not give him more time, coaching, and experience to ensure you develop the best of this young high-potential SP. With many saying that he could have to end up in the bullpen (which diminishes the return for a proven, young Closer), I felt it even more reason to invest in the chances for VV to reach his SP upside!

    I was frustrated that he made the roster. While I was thrilled with the 16-K performance I honestly told my dad it could be the worst thing because the FO would be even less inclined to send him down.

    I don’t get to see him pitch like many of you, so my opinions are just from observational reading and stats. A look at Fangraphs does show his CH usage has increased, but it’s pitch value has gone from near 0 to -7 (his worst pitch rating). Meanwhile, his boxscores alone demonstrate he still has not improved his command (career high 4.2 BB/9) and his pitch counts are still through the roof.

    I appreciated Tim’s comment above. He pointed out a poor performance but he still has hope for VV as an SP! I’m right there with you Tim.

    Has anyone else been thinking this for the past two years? Does anyone else think it’s worth it to send him down for 2 months and bring him back at the ASB with a better chance to be a different/better SP for 2H!? I know he can learn/improve at MLB level, but so far my gut remains that he’d be better served to get developmental coaching out of the spotlight for a while. I still truly believe he can be our future #2 if he can gets the right help! In yet another lost year this just seems wise (and might allow more mlb starts for Eflin, Pivetta, JT, or Lively in meantime).

    1. In a nut shell, since his contract was first selected by Houston on 11/20/14…he may be on his last option year, so if they are going to do something like that, then they better do it this season.

  5. The team is showing the ebb & flow of the season. Some tough losses & very good comeback wins.

    With every game, you have another piece of data to make sound decisions. The status has not changed for VV & the team is loaded up middle to back end rotation guys. VV needs to rev it down more & control his all out approach, still only 24, it is very possible he finds it. We need to stop counting on him to be the # 1 or # 2 guy, it is not fair to him.

    A few observations:
    -The league is starting to adjust to Cesar. I am interested to see how he responds.
    -Tojo has responded nicely to a poor April. I wonder what the delta will be between Hoskins & Tojo in another month.
    -Rupp has picked it up tremendously, we are getting great production from the catching position.
    -Hellickson is an okay pitcher, the rumor of phillies shopping is not a surprise. I don’t think he should be a candidate for long term contract.
    -Altherr is still trending up, will need to see how he comes down to earth & responds

    I would be curious to see what the value & trade board looks like in Klentak’s office.

    By board with trade value would be this:

    CF: Hererra – Up
    CF: Quinn – Even
    1B: Joseph – Up
    1B: Hoskins – Up
    2B: Cesar – Up
    2B: Kingery – Up
    2B: Valentin – Up
    SS: Galvis – Even
    SS: JP – Down
    C: Rupp – Up
    C: Knapp – Even
    SP: Hellickson – Even

    1. I still think long term Hoskin’s is the better player. I think he has a better approach at the plate that will produce a more consistent player. Tommy’s so streaky.

      Tommy Joseph & Cameron Rupp hitting is a beautiful thing for this front office. Two players under team control with better prospects behind them.

      1. Rupp is 28, Alfaro is 23, so I have no problem trading Rupp when Alfaro is ready.

        Now TJ is going to be 26, only 2 years older than Hoskins. TJ already has his OPS above .800. TJ may be streaky, but if he finishes the year with a .850 OPS, it’s still a .850 OPS. Are we banking on Hoskins coming in next year at age 25 and having a .900 OPS?

        1. One thing we have to keep in mind is that prospects like Hoskins, Alfaro and even Kingery are heading into their mid-20s. Ryan Howard was 25 and blocked by Thome. I doubt that happens with this crop and this regime. It’s all about value, value, value.

        2. Agreed on Rupp, Alfaro is the replacement by next season, if not sooner.

          What you are saying regarding TJ is exactly the point I was making.
          Hoskins never profiled as a high power or OPS prospect. ToJo seems to be where Hoskins will be as a player. We just don’t know that yet, but need to make a decision regarding trade. Keeping both will just delay progress.

          It is different with CeHe since Kingery is still only in AA, unless Valentin pushes him out today, which I believe he does not.

          1. The reason why Hoskins never ‘profiled as a high power or OPS prospect’ was because he is a right handed hitting first baseman and they historically are not looked upon as worthy of higher esteem,t until they reach the level he is at now and are performing as he is.
            His metrics from the very beginning reflected him as a power guy with a plus hit tool.
            he had 9 HRs in his first 70 games at Williamsport and then assumed he tired by August after a long season starting in January in college.

            1. So what are the odds that Hoskins comes in next year at 1B (because the Phillies traded TJ during the offseason) and gives us a .900 OPS? Because that is what we’re expecting right?

            2. What is your delta between ToJo & Hoskins in terms of HR, RBI, & OPS in the majors?

              ToJo is on pace for 23/74/.801 after 6 weeks & a bad start. I believe 30/100/.850 are possible.

              If the right trade comes along & Hoskins is part of the ask, do you do it knowing the production proximity with ToJo?

            3. Romus, by the time a decision is made on Joseph at the deadline, we’ll also know if Pavin is in the picture. In which case, it would be a lock that ToJo is gone provided he is relatively productive. Then a later decision next year will have to be made regarding Who’s On First? (Pavin in LF?) Oh, the possibilities….

          2. Tough question…who to keep between Hoskins and TJ…if both perform to what is their expectations. I guess Hoskins since he is a few years younger….and not sure what the difference will be in their respective slash lines…..though tend to think Hoskins will have the higher OBP.

            1. These are the types of scenarios Klentak should be thinking about when negotiating trades – most likely driven by prospect trajectory & potential trade return.

              Pavin Smith in the bank would make it an easier decision, but how about moving Cozens to 1B? The OF could get crowded if Quinn, Williams, Altherr stick next year with Doobie.

              We may want to find a spot for Kingery as well, if CeHe sticks around.

    2. I don’t see Hellickson has any trade value. Every non-contending team will have a better SP available for less. The Phils would be lucky to get an offer the likes of which they turned down for him last year and this year they’d have to eat major salary to get that lousy offer Total FO blunder extending him a QO.

      1. Three AL teams that are playing with house money, so to speak, as far as draft picks are concerned, could take a run at him and move one of their comp picks….Bal, Cleveland and Houston.

        1. Nice point, Romus. I would do that. Assume we’d get another midlevel prospect as well.

          1. 8mark….trouble is…those three teams pick in the 70s as their supplemental picks.
            It is not a sure- fire draft prospect.
            And it is technically a 2nd round pick, but sandwiched between the 2nd and 3rd rounds.
            And the slot money is around $850K which I guess is reasonable but will it get a HS player to forgo college and possible bigger money three years later?
            Also py selling fairly low on Hellickson at that point.

      2. Yeah he has no value, Just release him. Sure there are starters out there but this guy is right now one of the best available. I know sheldon blew it with him last year. But maybe Middleton sees how bad shelton is and get someone in here who can spot talent, in person not based on a computer numbers

  6. I am usually critical of VV as well, but looking at some of those fastballs was mouth-watering! When he’s able to repeat that easy delivery and command that fastball he is great. More fastballs needed, especially against meat of order hitters. Threw too many curves to Bryce, Zimm, Murphy last night. BTW–couple nice 2-strike 1Bs from my son!

    1. Too many curves? Are you serious? You know those 3 guys you mentioned can rip fastballs right? I remember Mackanin getting pissed that Rupp called a fastball from Ramos which Harper deposited for a HR. I remember Harper doing it against Benoit earlier this season.

      Fact is, you can’t throw a fastball hard enough if they know it’s coming. You need to mix in some other pitches.

      1. He just needs to learn (and this is something McClure talked about the catchers needing to learn) how to read the batter’s swings and know when to throw which pitches. That’ll come with maturity.

        1. He’s been better lately. He’s trying to mix his pitches but his control is not the greatest. And the Nats lineup is big time. When you have to go through Harper, Zimmerman, Murphy, Rendon 3 times, it’s rough.

      2. I am aware that excellent major league hitters can rip fastballs, thank you. When your fastball is @ 98, like VV’s was last night, it is the greater weapon.

  7. I think it’s tough to judge Velasquez, obviously he needs to pitch better but he’s faced some very good teams.

    Washington 4 ER in 4 IP
    Mets (Healthy) 5 ER in 5 IP
    Mets 3 ER in 6 IP
    Marlins 3 ER in 6.1 IP
    Cubs 1 ER in 5 IP
    Washington 6 ER in 7 IP (I actually think this was one of his best pitched games results aside)
    Washington 2 ER in 5 IP

    The Cubs, Nationals, (even the Mets when they were healthy) have deep lineups that work the count and foul pitches off. They’re built to get into bullpens in the 6th & 7th innings. I think he’s gotten better each time he’s faced these line ups even if the box scores don’t match-up with the performance (0 walks in 7ip against a top offense in baseball) and the best velocity of his career last night.

  8. The Mariners pound the Phillies for 21 runs in winning the two games at CBP. Then they travel north and get swept by the Jays while scoring six runs in four games. Are our boys that bad?

    1. Nature ebb-flow of a 162 game season. Can’t get too caught up in the day-to-day results. Baseball is a game of trends over time

    2. We should have won at least 1 of those games. Eickhoff was fighting his control, and Franco made a brutal error.

  9. My coaching staff by 2019:
    Dusty Wathan -manager (up with the youth)
    Raul Ibanez – bench (Bowa becomes FO advisor)
    Doc Halladay – pitching coach
    Chooch – asst. pitching /bullpen coach
    Matt Stairs – hitting
    Juan Samuel – 1b, baserunning
    Mickey Morandini – 3b, defense

        1. Hah……I think the Phillies will stay in house with their own coaches.
          Guys like Doc and Schmidt are more or less spring training instructors……they just do not want the daily grind, away from the family duties, for long periods of time.
          The money s not needed nor do they want the indignity of being fired.

  10. Rupp is being criticized for not calling a good game by Bob McClure. Maybe the Phillies really need an experienced backup catcher as our starting and relief pitchers are underperforming.

    1. I don’t think it’s something you can over look. I don’t know the stats off hand but I remember Eickhoff being much better last year when Ruiz was catching him.

    2. Or maybe McClure says something from the dugout? Better yet why doesn’t he call the pitches. Maybe he can cut down on the ridiculous number of home runs his staff has allowed. Get Neris to throw the splitter more.

      1. Home runs are up all over the place. It’s not limited to the Phillies.

        Neris can throw the splitter more, but he still needs to throw his fastball. The splitter drops so much, it’s almost always a ball if the player doesn’t swing at it.

  11. Right now I don’t see us reaping a lot in return on the trade market. The only way we get anything significant back is by packaging veteran players with some minor league talent. Even Hellickson as a rental by himself is going to get us but 2 midlevel prospects. Contending teams won’t trade away quality major league players. Our problem is acquiring more minor league prospects when we haven’t sorted out the many we have now. It’s a (numbers) depth issue. This may be the most active few months coming up on the transactions board, organization wide. We’ll see quite a few bid farewell from AAA on down, even if Hoskins, Alfaro and say Cozens are called up in August. Our heads will be spinning trying to keep up.

    1. 8mark…I would be happy with a comp pick at this point.
      Not all these teams are in play but there are a few that are contenders who may want to deepen their rotation with Jeremy Hellickson
      31 TBR …. 32CIN….. 33OAK…..34MIL….. 35MIN….. 36 MIA,
      or 2nd round..68ARI…..69SANDIEGO…..70COL…..71CLE…..72PIT….73KCR….74BAL……75HOUSTON

  12. Why would any team want Hellickson? Mike Leake and Ervin Santana are pitching better and are cheaper. Contending teams talking to the Phils probably check the availability of every other starter before Hellickson’s name comes up. The qualifying offer anchored him to Philly.

    1. When you say cheaper what do you mean?
      Both Leake and Santana are under contract ..Leake for three more after 2017 and Santana for one more, 2018.
      Hellickson is a plain and simple rental.
      The Phillies will get relatively little return for him, while the other two will cost contending teams more in prospect value.
      It isn’t rosy for the Phillies in any return value, but teams may be more inclined to go for their chances this year and let him walk after the playoffs.

      1. The problem is that for any trade scenario involving Hellickson, there are better, cheaper options. Teams looking strictly for rentals have better options such as Derek Holland, Trevor Cahill, Wade Miley or Scott Feldman. There certainly are others. There are cheaper options involving cost-controlled players.

        The Phils needed to move on from Hellickson. I see the speculation involving a trade of Hellickson starting again as it did last year and I see it as fantasy. The economics have changed and Klentak exposed himself through a ‘rookie’ blunder.

        1. I don’t see a problem. The Phillies are rolling in $. Signing Hellickson didn’t prevent them from doing anything else. He needn’t be expensive — the Phillies can pay most of his salary.

          1. Exactly – if they can get the prospects they want, money won’t be an issue.

  13. Hellickson will only return value if packaged with another player. There are too many pitchers available on the trade market, that are alone valued higher.

    Otherwise, it looks like another qualifying, if no other SP shows as a viable replacement this year. A viable replacement is a # 3 SP who can consistently pitch into the 7th inning, an innings eater.

    For me, this is less about Hellickson & more about whether the other SP begin to pitch deep into games, allowing you non-tender, trade for a bag of balls, or give another qualifying offer.

    1. If they can get an Eflin or Pivetta for him, I’d be happy. I don’t think he brings back anything significant, especially with his peripherals where they are at.

      I was actually more inclined to sign him to an extension but that 4.0 K/9 is alarming.

    2. Hellickson is no longer eligible to be offered a qualifying offer. The new CBA changed that.

      1. I am not a big fan of contract extensions for the sake of it. Trade for something or let go for nothing since our depth is extensive & pitchers are one year further progressed.

  14. So off the bat, I will say that Cozens hits bombs and that is fun to watch, and by all accounts, despite pre-draft attitude concerns, he has been a model citizen. However, I look at him and I really see Russell Branyan. The k’s are going to be so frustrating and he won’t hit lefties, so he will basically never face a righty with the game on the line. Sure hell hit some bombs off RHPs, but overall I do not see an every day player. I would LOVE to see if there is any GM who is infatuated with his power. Maybe package him with Hellickson for a top 3 prospect?

    I don’t mean to be negative, but I just see him as a JR Phillips/Branyan type, and there have been plenty over the years, with insane power and not much else. In his prime, I could see him maybe putting up the numbers Howard put up after everyone was fed up with him in 2015 and 2016

    1. You may be right and yes, I wonder what he would bring in a trade. But his power alone makes him a player a rebuilding club HAS to find out about. If we were contendors, that’s another story. I’d trade him for a missing piece heading down the pennant stretch.

  15. Looking for a rebound outing from Eickhoff tonight, especially vs his old organization. TJ is DH tonight, Stassi at 1b.

    Speaking of the Rangers, they’re without Hamels and a hot Carlos Gomez, both on the DL. I wonder if Daniels and Klentak will get together and chat. Oh, I don’t know. Maybe about Doobie and that team friendly contract of his. These 2 teams are trade compatible. Yes it’s early but the ground work could be laid down. Vinnie V is another guy they may covet, although his value might be lower than we’d prefer.

  16. I wonder what Eickhoff’s record would be had he gotten regular support both offensively and defensively to this point. Starting to feel bad for the guy. He’s our Cole 2.0, ironically coming over in that trade. In any case, a decent outing from him.

    And who’s idea was that pick off attempt last night? This is bad baseball. August won’t get here soon enough. (I’m starting to sound like our brother Roccom)

    1. ….oh, and Yu Darvish is 30 and a FA following this season. Let’s go sign him. Texas is reportedly hot after Otani. If we can’t get the latter, Darvish would facilitate the rebuild and we need major league arms badly.

      1. Yu Darvish is nasty. His slider is probably the best I’ve seen from a RH pitcher since David Cone. But he’s injury-prone and looking at his WAR, you wonder why it isn’t better. With his stuff, he should be putting up 5 WAR ever year.

      1. I like to think the timing was not there for Matt Klentak to resign Morton, and his health injury uncertainties ……they had to do it in November but Houston jumped right in there and signed him Nov 15th.@ $14M with added incentives to reach an added $5M.
        Then he trades for Clay Buchholtz almost a month later.
        Looking back now as a Monday morning QB……it probably was not a good decision

  17. We are a lock f or beer. I Thought and posted this was a 70 win team. Might be a 50 win team . They are really bad ,got no help from sheldon and have a bad manager. Hey Mr Middleton are you going to do a press conference and tell us we are the gold standard like laurie?

        1. Romus there in the best division in the NL plus there way long in tooth. I think Posey may be on the block before long. plus plus no motor cycle boy. San Diego has a HS team and the Braves just lost Freeman. The Phillies do have pitching replace ments the Offense is much better then last yr.

      1. tim your funny. Really thats your answer to our bad team. Its like saying my kid just killed someone and the other guys says. Well he only kill one my kid kiled l more.than one Its both bad.

        1. Your talking 1.1 with Beer so the Phillies have to be the worst team.have you seen SanDiego or Miami rotation.KC has scored 127 runs his yr. Phillies did good against the the Braves and Maimi but that All the bad teams they faced. Fix that bp take the pressure off the the starters . Pvietta needs To go down and learn a 3rd pitch.the Fo is going to have pull a trade or 2 for mlb help

    1. Great article if the Phillies can’t get ML talent in the top 10 .they better trade or sign for some.

    1. I’d be really surprised if the Stro’s don’t deal for Quintana. I’m actually surprised that deal didn’t go down before ST.

      That said the ChiSox are happy to keep him and haven’t ruled out offering him an extension.

      1. DMAR…have to agree on Jose Q. He is still young enough to be a part of their future rotation with many of their prospects.
        However the three pitchers they recd in the big trades this off-season…Giolito, Kopech and Lopez are just pitching fair-to-midland and not really exciting anybody right now. Though Kopech is turning it around lately. And also Carlos Rodon needs to get and stay healthy.

  18. Freddie Freeman could miss 10 weeks with a wrist injury. Report says Braves might look outside the organization. Tommy Joseph?

    1. Would they really have anything to offer not being in any playoff contention & knowing Freeman will be back this year?

      Maybe you could trade Kendrick instead & get something for him since it will be difficult for his value to be re-established with limited playing time this year.

    1. I was hoping Pavin’s stock would drop, Romus. It appears it has a little according to Manuel but Klentak is all about owning the strike zone and Smith’s BB/K ratio is golden.

    2. Shane Baz has a whole lot of helium !!! BA now has him to the Braves at 1-5.

      1. Hinkie, Baz is the only pitcher I would take among those likely to be on the board at 1-8. That’s only if Pavin, Beck and Pratto are gone. Really don’t feel like waiting for another HS arm to climb the ranks. Can’t trust them that high. Although the Braves have an historic golden touch with pitching prospects.

  19. I’m at a loss at how bad our bullpen is. Rodriguez is in to get 1 LH batter out and he just fans the flames. What a joke. I’m mondo pissed.

    1. Dammit, heads gotta roll. Mack has to call a team meeting and start throwing stuff. This id not acceptable. Rodriguez needs to be demoted

      1. Rodriguez’s line: 2 outs, 7 earned runs. Are you kidding me? Serious? Forget demotion, I would cut him now.

    1. Romus Most times you make the most sense. A lot of thought goes into what you post. But this statement is a pipe dream. They wont go and blow up the market. I will die saying this. bill giles stops them. believe it or not

  20. If Saunders is out with that hammy for a few games, word is they may bring up a Lehigh OF.

  21. Phils need to get into the active free agent market. 2B/3B Brett Lawrie would be a good sign to play the hot corner at LV, add some depth at a position lacking it, and perhaps motivate Franco to pick up his game.

    Lefty starter John Danks was released by the Braves after he wouldn’t accept an offer to start the season in AAA. He has to know that if his career is to go forward, he would need to earn his stripes in AAA at this point in the season and there are few places with better promotion potential than with the Phils.

    Then there is the aging Chris Capuano, the best unsigned lefty reliever. I could see making room for him at LV and see if he can pitch his way back to a big league bullpen. The threshold isn’t so high in Philly.

  22. The Phillies need to drop Joey Rod and Garcia . Milner and Venditte who have 0.00 era’s need to be brought up. This way 2 relievers from Reading can be brought up. Release Garcia and Joey his stats are horrible he’s gets to 0 and 2 counts doesn’t put anyone away.

    1. I have to agree here. Those 2 guys don’t deserve to be on a MLB roster right now.

  23. Pullin and Kingery are in the top 5 in almost all Offense categories. Pullin had the highest .ops Kingery the 3 rd highest.

  24. Phillies pitcher Jake Thompson.
    No relief: Pitching help from Phillies’ farm system is years away
    By Sam Donnellon

  25. There is virtually nothing to hang our hats on where pitching is concerned. We’ve a collection of 3’s, 4’s, and 5’s in our system. And they all still need more time to become legit major league arms.

    Enter free agency. With Hellickson more than likely gone by the deadline, Eickhoff is the only reasonably reliable starter in the current rotation. In a good rotation, he’s a #4. Yu Darvish is 30 and will probably seek a 5 yr deal. Shohei Otani will reportedly max out at $10M according to the new CBA. A lot of teams will be in that pool. Not sure what would separate us from the pack in pursuing him. Arrieta and Cueto look like they’re on the decline.

    The only way we acquire quality pitching is through trading from the apparent depth of the organization. Herrera, Cesar, Joseph, Franco (if he’s still hitting above .200) and Rupp all pose as trade pieces. A package of any one or two of them along with younger talent might get a Gerrit Cole type. Remember – money isn’t the issue, so long as we’re getting the quality.

    Then in ’18, we go BIG into FA for both arms and bats.

    1. Yes, I really need to agree with you. It would be nice to sit on this depth & watch everything develop, while hoping some of these pitchers hit. But the probability of developing that top flight starter is very low. It explains the haul that aces get in trades.

      That said, I would prefer not to overpay for aging pitchers in free agency, Arrietta comes to mind. Organizations like the A’s & Rays’s are always in the market for a trade.

      Chris Archer is signed through 2020 & Sonny Gray is trending up. Both only 28 & 27 years old, respectively. Gerritt Cole (26) is available & under control through 2019, but his agent is Scott Boras.

      Interestingly enough, at what age would you give up on a pitcher before taking them out of the rotation? I would like to move to a 6 man rotation & let these guys pitch in the majors to see what we really have. 3 games pitched by Pivetta is not enough to make a final decision.

      I would like the Phillies to go out & find that next Hellickson (still young, controllable, & takes the # 1 spot), but a little better to anchor this rotation.

    2. Gerritt Cole is going to cost the Phillies big, something along the lines of Sixto, Medina, Hoskins to start.

      1. Guru – With ToJo producing 850 OPS & getting Cole in return as Staff Ace, that is a deal I would make. The only apprehension I have is his agent is Scott Boras, & almost certainly he would walk after 2019 when this team is just starting to contend.

        Ideally, I would like to unload some AAA pitchers in that deal instead to help de-bottleneck the system. It needs to be a mutually beneficial deal either way.

  26. Just taking a few minutes for a fun exercise (or is that ‘exorcise’?) and predict landing destinations for our tradable commodities.

    Maikel Franco – the Red Sox have an unsettled 3b situation. He might not settle it but they like their bat options especially with the DH available. I can see him now swinging for the Green Monster.

    Odubel Herrera – If the Rangers don’t go after him, I can see another AL West team like the Angels or Astros. Hopefully he regains his value and brings us a second tier arm along with a low level prospect.

    Tommy Joseph – He should help make a more compelling package with Hellickson and a midlevel prospect to the Yankees. Let’s steal one of theirs.

    Cameron Rupp – Plenty of teams need serviceable catching. Alone he’ll get us little but a package with another complimentary piece might get us a worthwhile prospect. I’ll say he lands in Atlanta.

    1. Not sure MK will want to trade Rupp to an inter-divisional team and perhaps see him 18 times a year.
      Though their farm system is loaded with prospects…especially arms.
      I can see him going to an AL team.
      Maybe the Rangers when Lucroy is not behind the plate?
      The thing is….all of the above are MLB position players…..most teams want pitching at this point of the season.
      The off-season may be a better time to move these Philies players

      1. Well then we’re screwed, Romus. We’ve none to offer except for Hellickson, and what will he get us by himself? Herrera has a contract and team control most teams would be fine with. Joseph has what chicks love if little else. Rupp’s position alone gives him some value as a backup. Franco would be the trickiest to trade if he’s not producing by mid June. However he’s on pace for 100 rbi. Go figure.

        GMs get paid to find value in making these types of lesser deals. The blockbusters usually make themselves.

    2. I don’t know if the Braves are in the market for that kind of trade. Cleveland would be a good candidate for both Hellickson & Rupp, but their system was almost gutted last year by the Yankees.

      There are many good pieces that can be packaged together, it all depends on the return & I am confident that MK finds the right deals with McPhail’s leadership.

      I see any team that has solid players on the back end of their controllable arbitration years & playoff contenders as being viable trade partners.

      1. What are the indications that makes you confident on MK and MacPhail?
        Outside of the Giles trade, which is slowly eroding in return value,
        I have not seen anything that builds enthusiasm.
        His Rule 5 guys have failed to materialize, which is a long-shot anyway, most do fail.
        The rule 4 is pretty much set in stone picking first.
        Maybe signing a record high international players to fill the new academy in the DR may prove fruitful, but that is 4/6 years away.
        Imo, he has not done anything extraordinary to warrant confidence.
        But these next 4 months will give me more of an indication of what to expect from the FO.

        1. Romus, Keep in mind that much of the unloading & trading was completed before MK got here.

          The Giles trade was a great move & I would say the return is still materializing instead of eroding.

          The Hellickson trade proved a good value for 2 years.

          Morton, Buchholtz, Saunders, & Kendrick are all value additions for a rebuilding team. Though the moves haven’t/didn’t pan out, you cannot argue with the approach.

          In terms of Rule 5, not sure this team has had any room to absorb given all of the depth.

          The decision to not pursue another 1B or C in the off-season has been wise. Both ToJo & Knapp are doing well.

          Overall, the philosophy & approach has been very sound. Develop your prospects & make low investment/high return possibility trades to help the team in the short term while not impeding prospect growth or payroll flexibility.

          McPhail has been around long enough to mentor MK & I believe they will continue to make conscientiously conservative moves. Any GM could have aggressively given out contracts like the Angels, Diamondbacks or the Mariners. None of which have been successful.

          Agreed, let’s plan to re-assess after the trade deadline & off-season since there are many key decisions looming regarding direction of the team.

          1. You are keeping the faith…which is good.
            Also…those large FA signees by the Angels D-Backs and Mariners is not what I may have been referring to as far as player movement are concerned…I am looking more at the amateur level not the MLB FA market.
            And that Giles trade……Obie is gone, Appel is an enigma, Arauz is now a low-90s velo reliever…perhaps the next jeanmar…..ViVe and Eshelman seem to be the two remaining that still give the fan base some semblance of hope and enthusiasm.
            Giles on the other hand…. will be closing for the ‘Stros in October baseball

        2. Also want to add that extending Pete another year with an option was a wise choice, as there is no reason to bring in your long term managing solution yet.

          As for the coaching decisions, I would have to say that Matt Stairs was truly an incredible hire. The players are responding well to his coaching.

          As for the pitching, it is very disappointing how VV has not progressed year over year & poorly Neris has started out.

          Neris had to have known the closer job was there for the taking & clearly the pitching coach didn’t do enough to prepare him.

          I would say Efflin’s success is more a product of his healing off-season than the coaching.

          We need better pitching coaches to bring out the best out of these young arms before deciding to trade or jettison out.

          1. John H……you do know….you are the exact polar opposite of roccom.
            Where he is Mr Negadelphia…….you are Optimum Primedelphia. 🙂

            1. Thanks, I do think the approach of the Phillies organization now differs greatly from the 90’s which did warrant a negative point of view.

              Eagles: For every great off-season over the last 15 years, the management is very flawed & will never win. It is an issue from the top.

              Flyers: Have been trying to buy their way to a title for years & just recently took a measured approach to development. What a streak without winning a title, but great ownership.

              The Sixers are an absurd superficial shell game, much worse than the Eagles.

  27. ook at the list of names of 1st round picks from 2003-2012. You’d think they do better drawing names out of a hat.

    2003: No 1st round pick
    2004: Greg Golson
    2005: No 1st round pick
    2006: Kyle Drabek
    2006: Adrian Cardenas (supplemental)
    2007: Joe Savery
    2008: Anthony Hewitt
    2008: Zach Collier (supplemental)
    2009: No 1st round pick
    2010: Jesse Biddle
    2011: Larry Greene (supplemental)
    2012: Shane Watson (supplemental)
    2012: Mitch Gueller (supplemental)

    Holy Cow that’s an impressive record of failure.

    2013: Crawford hasn’t done much since A ball, but somehow he’s still our top prospect…how?
    2014: Nola is a #3 *IF* he has his command. Nothing wrong with #3s, but you’d hope to get better from the #7 overall pick.
    2015&2016: Randolph and Moniak are still teenagers, but they haven’t shown anything yet to show they’re going to be? WOW Just read this list

    1. Kind of old news that our draft record was awful over that time period (up to 2012). Crawford, we’ll see. He doesn’t look like a likely top-of-the-order hitter anymore. I think Nola is a number 2, health permitting. Randolph is fairly disappointing so far, given his profile. Moniak’s start isn’t exciting, but it’s too early for concern.

      1. Okay say your right lets go on Nola isnt a number 2 maybe in a softball league in south philly. be real .Randolph is a toolsy player who might never hit according to scouting reports i have read. Crawford upside is a seventh or eighth hitter with good glove not a 300 hitter but more like 250 with good glove and good obp. Not what i want from a first round choice, Moniak is too early. so old news is the same news.

    2. rocco….I agree with you….but have to remember, many, or for that matter all, were low first rounders, beyond the 20th selection…..higher fail rate.
      Top ten picks have a better chance of success and higher WAR.
      Granted some of them should have amounted to a MLB player of some sort….it wasn’t a grand time for the scouting department..

  28. Romus i been so wrong, i think as many have said we should trade Hellickson for anything, maybe a rookie league low profile pitcher .tommy joseph just give him away. trade cesar for a relief pitcher. i want beer. and most think we should trade them anyway for nothing so lets get beer

    1. rocco….you want beer…this early on a Sunday morning? 🙂
      If Hellickson can pitch two or three more quality starts….then Klentak should pull the trigger…he is showing health concerns… the last four baseball months…Aug/Sept 2016 and April/May 2017….he has had back issues, the incident I Cincy when he hitthe triple and legged it out to third the had t be removed, then two weeks later the hand distortions/numbness and now this latest incident with his side.
      I think the body may be telling him something is going on there.

      1. I would try to packags Rupp with Hellickson in a trade. Good point about the latter’s little injuries. And it’s not like he’s a power pitcher. Move earlier and get what we can. Otherwise all for naught. Let Knapp be the #1 catcher and bring Moore up to backup.

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