Open Discussion: Week of September 19th

Here’s the open discussion thread for Phillies’ talk and other topics.

The Phillies went 4-3 at home last week.  They took 2 games each from the Pirates and Marlins, hurting both of their wild card chances.  And probably, should have swept the Marlins.  Their record stands at 67-83 (25-35 since the All Star break).  

The Phillies complete their home stand with a pair of games against the White Sox,  They go on the road and play 4 in New York against the Mets.  They finish the season with 7 of 10 games against the Mets.  The intervening three-game series is against the Braves in Atlanta.

The Phillies’s elimination number in the wild card race is one.  So, we can close the book on that.

The Phillies 4-3 week raised their winning percentage to .447, ninth worst worst in the league as the Angels had a 5-loss week and dropped past the Phils.

There is a distinct gap between the tenth worse team (82 losses, .453) and the 11th worst team (77, .483).

With a schedule heavy with games against the Mets, it’s conceivable that the Phillies only win another 4 games.  The Phillies have 83 losses.  The Twins (95)and Braves (91) are out of reach.  The Padres (87) , Reds (86), and Diamondbacks (86) are probably inept enough to maintain their leads.  So, the sixth pick in the 2017 June draft looks like a reasonable possibility. If they finished in a tie for any position, they will win since their league worst 2015 winning percentage will settle all ties in their favor.

WhiteSox                72-77     0.483
Rockies                    72-77     0.483
Brewers                   68-82     0.453
Phillies                     67-83     0.447
A’s                               66-83     0.443
Angels                       65-84     0.436
Rays                            64-85     0.430
Diamondbacks    63-86     0.423
Reds                           63-86     0.423
Padres                       62-87     0.416
Braves                       58-91     0.389
Twins                         55-95     0.367

I watched some of the Phillies/Marlins game today on the Miami feed.  A couple observations:

  1. The major league game drags.  At 2:20PM of a 1:35PM start (45 minutes) Alec Asher was still in the process of wrapping up the top of the second inning.  I miss the clock they use in the FSL.  If it hadn’t been Alfaro’s first start, I would have started surfing.
  2. How can a major league umpire who denied Cashner the corners early in a 30+ pitch first inning, start calling worse pitches strikes toward the end of the inning?  Oh yeah, rookie catcher batting.  The first called strike was at best marginal.  The second wasn’t close.  I spent 10 minutes rewinding, playing in slo-mo, and frame-by-frame.
  3. Why isn’t Roman Quinn in center field?  There is a part of me that believes that Herrera may have been the third best center fielder in the Phillies’ outfield.
  4. Why isn’t Roman Quinn leading off?
  5. Credit to the official scorer who charged Galvis with an error in spite of his errorless game streak and contention for a gold glove.  I rewound this one, too, and thought it was an error.  The Miami announcers were on the fence because of the streak and gold glove competition.
  6. Alec Asher has pitched better than I expected based on what I saw during his rehabs against GCL batters.



174 thoughts on “Open Discussion: Week of September 19th

    1. Thank you!!! People are talking about Herrera as if he were a liability. I don’t get that. He’s young, he’s shown a good hit tool and power, and he can run and field. In sporadic playing time he’s produced almost as much fWAR as Bryce Harper this year. I’m not saying he’s as good as Bryce Harper (of course he’s not), but he’s pretty darned good and not a guy you just dump for no reason.

      It’s bizarre to me that the players that people seem to be complaining about most – Cesar Hernandez and Odubel Herrera – were CLEARLY the team’s best two players this year. Both were above average, first-division regulars this year.

      1. I think people don’t realize how hard it is to hit a baseball. If you got a guy that’s generating 3.8 WAR at age 23, you gotta keep him and trade the prospect. Simple as that. There are no guarantees that the prospect will pan out i.e Dom Brown.

        1. Catch,

          Absolutely agree on Herrera. He’s also a guy who shows he wants to learn and improve, and he’s learned a great deal over the past two seasons. I wouldn’t be surprised if next year become his break out and we see a player considerably more productive than what Odubel has been already.

          As for Cesar, he’s got to stop the bone-head moves.

      2. Glad you mentioned both CH and OH in the same sentence …I trade them tomorrow if I would get the best value in return.
        And it would have to be best value since both are young, talented, and controlled.
        And would want pitchers like Blake Snell . Yo Mendez, or Julio Urias., may even settle for Luis Severino or Brady Aiken.
        Klentak better be careful or he will end up in the same position Ben Cherington was in with the Red Sox and their OF surplus… had to come to Dave D to move Margot in the Kimbrel deal. Fortunately JBJr had few takers a few years ago and Rusney Castillo came up short.
        When teams know you have surplus, then you are at a disadvantage.

        1. The Red Sox keep there Betts , JBjr, and traded Margot and still have Benintendi . The Phillies should keep Herrera and trade they prospects in Quinn and Nick Williams while waiting for Mickey Moniak and C. Nobody will trade there a top pitching prospect for a lower power 2nd baseman and a CF. Plus LA, Cleveland, Tampa Bay and NY CF aren’t to shabby.

          1. You never know what a GM will do….Jon Daniels may want OH back, as he has said he regrets not protecting him in 2014, and would he give up Mendez for him? All depends on who needs him and what they can offer in return. I would think he is peak value now coming off an all-star selection and two years experience under his belt and controlled for a few more years. Would you take a Cal Quantrill or Eric Lauer from the Padres for him? Or even an AJ Puk from the As, if Billy Bean would ever happen to do that?

            1. For that article I statement sticks out ” there is no indication from the TEAM that Herrera will be moved this off season”. The Phillies never once said ” were looking into moving Herrera ” . Some fans yes Sport writers yes The Phillies FO No..Right now Herrera is the most proven young OF they have. You build around players like Herrera not trade them. I once saw Eric LongenHagen andswer a question ” no that’s more of a sports writer thing”.the Question was does Flashy play from a prospect bother scouts.

          2. I dunno that I would trade Quinn over C tho or even Williams for that matter . . . Then again I was never high on C (I don’t think he amounts to much). . . I think Quinn is the better prospect and player. I’d still like to see Herrera work on 2B . . . I find it hard to believe he can learn CF (and isn’t a bad CFer at all) but can’t improve at 2B. He was voted best defensive 2B in one of his minor league seasons with Texas so i’d assume he can’t be a butcher at 2B. Give some more options.

            1. Eric ,Quinn has Avg 81 games a yr since 2012 . He has never had more then 328 Atbats in 1 season. The Phillies are moving Quinn around the OF not Herrera. I think the Phillies would like to know 1 can Quinn stay healthy for a hole season.2 he is better offensively then Herrera , Herrera a proven mlb player, Quinn needs to go to Lvh next year and prove he can stay healthy. 3 the Phillies have alot of payroll flexibility they can buy who they want this yr. They don’t have to trade there best war player.

            2. I think Quinn is a 4th OF until he can prove to stay healthy. Give him 300 AB next year and leverage his strengths while continuing to get stronger physically.

        2. Romus,

          Everybody has a price, so I wouldn’t say never on trading Odubel, but I’m not sure the Phillies have an outfield surplus. Lots of prospects, but nobody certain. If the club wants to clear out some clutter, I’d rather trade a prospect like Williams rather than a proven Major Leaguer who should still improve.

          Hernandez I’d trade in a hear beat. Galvis or Kingery look much more like our shots as Major League second basemen to me. Of course, that also is a bet on JP being the shortstop.

          1. FrankF….agree…only if a GM comes calling and wiling to give up a TOR pitching prospect. But most times a position player alone does not bring back a TOR prospect.
            Cesar….not sure what I would do. Since the Twins series he has been the best hitter on the team.

            1. Romus, I would like to see Cesar’s career numbers from month to month. Curious to see if there’s a pattern of inconsistency. Or anybody who has them handy.

  1. To be honest, I don’t care if we are 6th, 9th, or 10th in next year’s draft. I’d much rather see us make a push for 75 wins. That means we are moving in the right direction. We were picked by Vegas to be dead last again this year, even worse than last year. 70 wins in going to happen and if you told me back in March that we wouldn’t be mathematically eliminated from the playoffs until September 19, I would’ve taken that in a heart beat.

    I like having more money to spend in the draft just as much as anyone, but we are still in a good position. If Hellickson rejects the QO, we will have 3 picks in the first 100. That’s not too shabby. And realistically, there probably aren’t any guys we would sign with a QO attached to them anyways.

    1. I totally understand your position. I have felt that way in the past, too. The draft position didn’t really matter to me until I understood all the nuances attached to it.

      Look at what the Phillies were able to do with the 2016 draft. They would not have been able to sign so many promising, young HS athletes (7) without the allotment that came along with the #1 pick. Plus they were able to lure guys with leverage (college juniors and juco guys) to sign contracts.

      And then there’s the International slot money. Two years ago with the tenth round allotment, they had to trade for additional allotment dollars to sign Jhailyn Ortiz and a bunch of other guys. This summer they had a large enough allotment to “make it rain” on several bigger ticket players (at least 6 above $300K but below $1M) and a bunch of other guys (although only the pitcher Franco Morales will likely receive as much buzz as Ortiz did).

      And while you’re right about the QO FA out there, I’ve learned that the draft and international dollars matter more than I ever realized. But, I’ll still be rooting for them to win every night. I’m just not as disappointed as I used to be if they lose.

      1. Jim,

        Nuance is a very good word. It’s what I’ve learned — and continue to learn — visiting this website every day.

        With the minor league season now over, let me add my thanks to you for the great job you do in publishing Phuture Phillies every day. This site has the most informed contributors and that’s because you publish a site that attracts them. And, of course, your personal observations, knowledge and insight are invaluable. And you’re a really good writer, to boot.

      2. I just an article where not many FA are going to sign before the new CBA. The owners will ask to do away with the QO. There’s 3 teams in the race for the NL WC.The Mets , SF , St louis my money on St Louis and the Mets easier schedule by far. SF has LA 6 times down by 5 games. The ROCKIES just ahead of the Phillies have the hardest schedule by far.

      3. I hear ya loud and clear Jim. I’ve been rooting for the rebuild immediately after Halladay and Lee went off into the sunset. It took a while, but we are now starting to turn the page. I’m over getting bonuses and higher allotments. We got a little taste of winning this year and I want more. No looking back!

        To digress, I was disappointed the Phillies last year didn’t take on some bad contracts for competitive balance picks, or for other teams prospects. I’m also waiting for them to blow past their international pool money one time. I understand not doing last year, with the highest amount allowed. But man, Moncada was a guy who, in my eyes, was worth it. Crawford and Moncada up the middle for a decade would’ve been sweet.

        But as I was saying, time to look forward. There might be some big changes this December in regards to QO’s, international money, luxury cap, comp picks, etc. it will be interesting to see…

        1. ‘I’m also waiting for them to blow past their international pool money one time’…you and me both.

          But beginning to realize , it may never happen. For sure under the old regime…..but beginning to believe it will be more of the same under this new one.
          When I see many ‘small market teams’ bust their allocation….then get a CBA pick after the first or second round, like the Reds did this year with the 35th pick… truly amazes me how MLB operates.
          The life blood of a major league team is amateur talent acquisition, and MLB affords teams every work around to circumvent what they conceive as an equitable system in place.

  2. Good to see Odubel Herrera hitting again recently. That should boost his value for the off season. If he’s not traded, then I can see Quinn leading off and playing CF with Herrera in LF batting #2.

    I agree with Jim on the last thread – why Quinn isn’t leading off now makes me scratch my head. It’s September and these games don’t mean squat other than evaluating future pieces.

    My grades for key members of the big club:
    Pete Mackanin B- (the solid pitching in the 1st third of the season covered up deficiencies unmasked later, especially in personnel moves)
    Odubel Herrera B
    Maikel Franco C
    Freddy Galvis B
    Cameron Rupp B+
    Tommy Joseph C+
    Cesar Hernandez B-
    Jeremy Hellickson A-
    Jerad Eickhoff B
    Vince Velasquez B-
    Bullpen B+ (since their being overused diminished their overall effectiveness; there were many games where the starters COULD or SHOULD [Pete] have gone longer)

    1. Why I don’t disagree to much with your grade for those players, there is one that doesn’t make sense to me. How can you put TJ at a C grade when he really wasn’t expected to contribute anything this year and has put up a decent .250 avg with a 20+ homer season? I would have to say at the least it is a B+ for him and if he could’ve walked more definitely an A.

      1. Good point on TJ. He surpassed any preseason expectations that’s for sure. I guess his avg with RISP was so bad.

        1. I read somewhere today that Tommy Joseph has a goal of being a September call up . . . i’d say he blew way past this goal. God I would have loved to see what he would be if he stuck at catcher.

    2. 8mark…trading Hererra could be a lot harder than expected. Of the 29 other MLB teams, how many have a true need for a CFer. And OH really does not fit the profile as a LF on most contending teams.
      So you may be looking at only a handful or so teams that would make a good trade partnership….Padres, Mariners, A’s, CWS (?), Brewers (?).

    3. Think you are being harsh on Pete MacKanin as this is the part of the season where you see what your young pitchers can do especially relievers. I also think MacKanin was told to play veterans such as Peter Borgous, Ryan Howard, Jimmy Paredes, Cody Ashe, Darin Ruf and others by top management.

  3. ‘3.Why isn’t Roman Quinn in center field? There is a part of me that believes that Herrera may have been the third best center fielder in the Phillies’ outfield.
    4.Why isn’t Roman Quinn leading off?’
    ……..probably same reason Mack needs to try to keep playing Howard over these last 2/3 weeks.

    1. With you, Romus. I really don’t get this idea of false protocol in deferring to veterans or current place holders as if you shouldn’t risk offending them, usually cloaked in the guise of gently introducing the fragile rookie. Kind of annoying.

  4. I agree with you both. While it is nice to see Doobie hitting again, his D is definitely behind Quinn and Altherr. Mackanin made a very good point when he related Herrera’s improvement to the arrival of Roman Quinn. Competition is very good for these guys. Cesar has had a nice year. His base running still leaves a lot to be desired. Quinn is vastly superior to Cesar on the base paths and is a much better lead off hitter. This should have been done from the start.

    1. matt13…….César is an enigma.
      Look at Tommy Joseph’s face and reaction after Cesar came over and collided with him yesterday in the 8th, as the ball fell to the ground..
      It is sadly, comical.
      Cesar did the same thing to Ryan Howard a few months ago but Ryan held onto the ball and Cesar bounced off him.
      Cesar may be one MLB player who truly qualifies for the prescription drug Adderall…video history of his on the base paths and in the field actions may truly exhibit symptoms of ADHD.

      1. Not to mention, when you have the ball in your glove for the count of three before the base runner arrives and you miss the tag. I have seen him do that 3 or 4 times this year and attribute that to the same thing, loss of focus.

      2. Like many people on the list, I watch a lot of games and Hernandez is a player whose value will be overestimated by the stats. He makes enough mental blunders to offset his OBP. His horrible baserunning can’t be captured in a stat other than his CS% and that is even less troublesome than his multiple occurrences of getting thrown out at third with less than two outs or getting caught off second on a ground ball to the hole. If his stats convinced another team he had value, I would trade him and risk a keystone of Blanco/Galvis. I’m also confident one of Kingery or Valentine will be able to generate the same WAR as Hernandez next year with less non-statistical downside.

        For someone with 2,400 minor league AB’s and over 1,100 MLB AB’s, he makes too many rudimentary mistakes.

        1. ” His horrible baserunning can’t be captured in a stat other than his CS% and that is even less troublesome than his multiple occurrences of getting thrown out at third with less than two outs or getting caught off second on a ground ball to the hole.”

          Here is literally the definition of the baserunning component of Fangraphs WAR. It takes everything you mention and more into account:

          “Base Running (BsR) is FanGraphs’ all encompassing base running statistic that turns stolen bases, caught stealings, and other base running plays (taking extra bases, being thrown out on the bases, etc) into runs above and below average. It is the combination of Weighted Stolen Base Runs (wSB), Weighted Grounded Into Double Play Runs (wGDP), and Ultimate Base Running (UBR) which are all available on the leaderboards and player pages.

          BsR serves as the base running component of Wins Above Replacement (WAR) and provides a lot more information than simply looking at a player’s stolen base total if you are interested in judging a player’s base running performance.”

        2. Matt,

          Agreed. I’ve been tempted to try to recreate the season, account for Hernandez’ mistakes and deduct them in some fashion from his stats but, of course, I haven’t made the time to do it.

      3. That play is as much the catchers fault as tge infielders. He is the defensive captain and has the best read on spin and depth of the ball. It is his job to vocally SHOUT out who is to make a catch where there is a possibility of collission or miscommunication. This infield collision is something that shouldn’t even happen in high school games.

    2. Matt, I would like to like Cesar, but his bone-head plays on the bases and in the field really undercut him for me. I’m not too concerned about Quinn not leading off. Heck, he’s not even had a single game in AAA, so batting second in the Big Leagues is still a great way to start.

  5. I see little to no chance Quinn starts in Philly out of ST. Let’s get him some September ABs and allow him to get a comfort level. He’ll start in LHV and be ready for call up if needed. He’s already reverting to his mean as his ABs increase. I’d love to see him have 100 ABs with the Phils but it’s more likely to be 70 or so. Getting enough ML ABs to keep him out of our top 30 would be best because I don’t know where to put him.

    Quinn has game changing speed but if he hits .220 with a few HRs and an OBP around .300, is that a good leadoff guy? Let him have enough ABs in AAA to see if he’s ready for the big boy circuit.

    1. Totally agree. He’ll start at LHV and get called up in May/June if he hits well. Hererra isn’t getting traded although it looks like he’s moving to a corner. I like Altherr but he looks like a 4th OF to me. He’ll get a chance next year early but with all the OFs at AAA next year he better hit well or he’ll go to the bench by June.

  6. Who is Freddy Galvis? Hands down an above average MLB SS Defensively but as an everyday player offensively I’m not convinced.

    For his career he is 241/275/646 OPS guy! That is not an everyday player in the MLB IMO but this season his 20 HRS cloud that discussion in his favor

    L7 Games 308/345
    L15 Games 286/317
    L30 Games 275/310

    He made $2 Mil this season and is Arb Eligible for 2017 and 2018; FA Eligible in 2019 when he will be 29 years old.

    1. “Having him out of the NL East and off the Mets, would make things easier for the Phillies.”

      I had to click on the link to see that the article referred to Cespedes and not Bartolo Colon.

      Dexter Fowler is a free agent this off-season. I don’t see that many teams in search of a player with Herrera’s profile but if there were, then Fowler could be had for money alone. I’d shelve any thought of Herrera being traded for value.

      The Phils have created a good position for competition in the rotation next year. If Nola is not ready to start the season, the Phils are not as vulnerable in that eventuality as they would have been this year. Eickhoff, Velasquez,Thompson, Eflin, Asher and even Morgan have improved their stock.

      I hope the Phils attempt to create similar depth in the outfield this off-season. I continue to support an effort to acquire Yasiel Puig in a trade. Michael Saunders, a needed left-handed bat with pop, would be a good free agent addition on a 2-year deal. Danny Valencia, who plays 3B as well as the outfield, would be a good addition as well on a 1-year deal.

      The outfield prospects — Altherr, Quinn, Williams, Cozens, even Pullin — should have to compete to earn playing time on the big team next year.

  7. Starting my top 30 list early since things are kinda slow and I’m bored. I’m also separating position players (20) from pitchers (10) cuz I see them as Appels and oranges….hey did you like that?

    1 JP Crawford
    2 Jorge Alfaro
    3 Roman Quinn
    4 Mickey Moniak
    5 Scott Kingery
    6 Dylan Cozens
    7 Rhys Hoskins
    8 Nick Williams
    9 Cornelius Randolph
    10 Andrew Knapp
    11 Jhailyn Ortiz
    12 Cole Stobbe
    13 Josh Stephen
    14 Austin Bossart
    15 Rafael Marchan
    16 Jose Pujols
    17 Brayan Gonzalez
    18 Josh Tobias
    19 Darick Hall
    20 Jesse Valentin

    1 Franklyn Kilome
    2 Sixto Sanchez
    3 Adonis Medina
    4 Alberto Tirado
    5 Kevin Gowdy
    6 Cole Irvin
    7 Elniery Garcia
    8 Victor Arano
    9 Mark Appel
    10 Nick Pivetta
    *honorable mention – Ben Lively

    1. Just as Tommy Joseph flew in under the radar this year, Andrew Pullin could well be ‘that guy’ next year, particularly as Altherr has been slow to recover and Nick Williams’ progress appears to have slowed.

      Joely Rodriguez could well be the leading lefty out of the pen in ’17; having consistently avoided prospect lists here and elsewhere.

      1. I do think that by the time the Phils are contenders again that MacKanin will be gone. Among other things, he can’t operate a bullpen.

    2. 8mark,

      I like your list and would go for the top five position players. I’d then put Randolph 6, Hoskins 7, Cozens 8 and Williams 9. All subject to change, of course.

      Bossart at 14 and Marchan in the top 20 is a little bold, and I like it. I might try to find space for Chace “Pass Ball” Numata. In fact, maybe him instead of Bossart.

      It’ll be fun sorting out the top 30 this year.

    3. Think you missed on Pullin. He’s going to come in around 10-12 range.

      Also would have C above Williams until Nick learns to walk more than twice a month.

      1. It would be a nice story if he makes it but most of what I have heard and read tells me he’s a bit small and lacks power for a corner OF.

        1. 8mark……I think he is a little shorter than most, but he does have some weight on his 5’11” frame. He actually can get too big if he is not careful. Physically he may eventually profile like Odubel Herrera.

        2. Have heard the exact opposite. In fact in most recent KLaw chat, he described him as “absolutely a prospect”. Most on that list are not.

  8. Fangraph’s Eric L’s chat today:
    Hiya: How excited should I be about Franklyn Kilome
    Eric A Longenhagen: Hi, I’m Eric Longenhagen for Franklyn Kilome. Do you like big, hard throwing righties with impressive curveball feel? The Franklyn Kilome is for you!
    Get your Franklyn Kilome while supplies last at participating Clearwater locations.

    1. Romus – With the exception of height, I think we could just about say the same about Alberto Tirado. I am excited at the prospects of this Dominican Duo!

      1. California, formerVermont…….and don’t forget there are the other starting Latin pitchers in the system who are generating a lot of fanfare…Pinto, (maybe in Reading again or LHV), Sixto Sanchez, Adonis Medina, and Elniery Garcia.

        1. Absolutely! I think Tirado stands out a bit more for me as how he has turned it around to get command of his pitches since becoming a starter, and isn’t he the hardest thrower among starters on the Pharm? I agree with you (from Crashburn Alley) to protect him. Pitching is very exciting in the organization.

  9. Tim, I can’t dispute metrics because they tell people what they are already inclined to interpret from them. Some experts value certain stats over others. Other experts value other stats more.

    I’m too lazy. I look at a hitter’s OBP and a starting pitcher’s WHIP as most indicative of how well they’re performing.

    I want to see Herrera succeed in a Phillies uniform. But if we have a prototypical center fielder on the cusp of being the everyday guy out there who, based on his skill set and an advanced approach at the plate, albeit still in the formative stage, projects to be a better option both in the field AND at the leadoff spot, I have to explore the possibility that somebody (like the Texas Rangers?) would be willing to offer a compelling package in return. Same with Rupp. I personally don’t see Herrera as a building block. There are too many deficiencies in his game even though I would still say he’s a solid major league player.

    1. Since you said obp Herrera’s is .361 the 4th highest among CF in mlb. Texas has 2 CF right now in Ian Desmond and Carlos Gomez who looks good so far in Texas . Texas can sign either one at the end of the yr. 2 Darvish is a FA in 2019 I doubt Texas is going give up pitching they already gave up Ortiz . They wouldn’t give up Mazara or Profar for Archer or Sale at the trade deadline. They also have a CF prospect that’s getting some really good reviews.

  10. @Romus, Thank you. I removed country and dollar amounts from both posts, so that the list could be left as a reference for all. Do you think that is enough? Or would you prefer a complete deletion.

    1. Jim you mite want to go back into the site cookies and delete the Romus posts. A simple Google search of 1 of the LA player names will come up Romus posts from 4 days ago.

  11. There’s talk of Miami possibly shopping Jose Fernandez this off season. Who if anyone would you offer? Bear in mind he’s under control for 2 more years though with significant arbitration increases due.

    1. The cost would be too high in terms of players. The Phillies have tons of money – they can afford FA contracts. They cannot, however, afford to squander their best young players who will be the heart of this re-build. Do the trades too early and you become the Padres. Yikes!

    2. Your talking Elite prospects several like Jp, Kilome, Sixto , Nola, C , Thomoson etc . Would I do it maybe look for the Yanks and Dodgers to be the ones too.

    1. Tim…..where does it show the new signees from July/August 2016?
      The newest ones , ie Francisco Morales, Bryan Gonzalez, et al, may not have been assigned to the Phillies 1 or 2 DSL teams , but may only just start later this month in the DR academy or maybe brought up for the FIL.

    2. Thanks, Tim. I use the transaction page as well as the roster page to get player info. The players I don’t have are the ones that signed this year, are at the academy in the Dominican Republic, and are not on a roster.

  12. Yea boy HERRERA and TJ might have the best arm of any 1st baseman in the league. Herrera and tearing it up in the last few days of the season.C Hernandez is the first base stealer that O Narvaez has throw out in his first 20 attempts. Now that makes alot of Baseball sense.

  13. Here’s a poor man’s free agents wish list for the Phillies next yr. Matt Joyce, Steve Pearce , pitcher Dunn . Richer man’s Prado, Michael Saunders, trade for Cargo or Blackmon pitcher Dunn. Trade for Doolittle and Khris Davis Hmmmmmm

    1. Of your list…Prado would be the one I would most be interested in, to provide a little more offense plus his positional versatility…though he would cost a lot more, than say an Andres Blanco, probably at $11/12M annum. I would think.
      Blackmon would require a 4 or more year contract I assume, but he is the next on the list that would interest me.
      Pitchers……Charlie Morton becomes a wild card and until they decide what they are going to do with him things probably do not change. They already have their projected spring training rotation in place with Nola, Velasquez, Thompson, Eflin, Eickhoff and maybe Asher/Lively.
      I really want to see how Matt Klentak navigates this 40 man situation this next season, if any of Quinn, Williams, Cozens and Goeddel rake coming out of the gates at LHV for the first 6/8 weeks, along with JPC…a domino effect may entail.

      1. Romus take a look at Matt Joyce and Steve Pearse career. There both give you vet at bats they have high .obp with some power. Neither will ask for big money but will you great at bats.

        1. Yeah….they are decent role players, but prefer Prado due to his versatility…LF and infield, other than ss.
          If it is money and savings, then they are the answer, since they would cost a lot less than Prado, maybe even $10M per season less..

          1. Hey I’m in on Prado he was first choice, but the Phillies again the worst Outfield offense production in baseball. The lowest runs scored there will be something done. Macphail trade for Chris Davis he could it again but for Khris Davis who hit 40 Hr 99 rbi’s.

            1. Tim….Phillies may have to suck it up for the first half of 2017 in the OF…..beyond that and into 2018 then you have Cozens and Williams in the corners.

  14. By the way, everyone is talking so much about how the Phillies have improved this year. But, in terms of performance, much (but not all) of the “improvement” is luck. The Phillies have the worst run differential in major league baseball, which would project to only 59 wins right now. In other words, they should have the worst record in baseball right now.

    That said, I don’t think the rebuild is going poorly, it’s just not as far along as we would all hope and, as many of us were saying, there are no “can’t miss” stars on the major league team or in the upper minors, although J.P. Crawford is awfully close to being that, present struggles aside. So, next year, if you see the Phillies struggling at 5 to 10 games under .500 (which is kind of where I expect them to end up next year – I think 2018 is the year they really surge forward), there may be a lot of actual improvement even if their record does not reflect that. Of course, the team is chock full of young players, so they may do substantially better or worse than that; it could be quite the rollercoaster ride.

    1. Part of me really wishes that the Phillies had been more committed to taking losses this year, they just don’t have enough talent to support a future championship run without them getting extraordinarily lucky with prospects.

      1. I don’t view him as a top 5 MLB prospect right now, but I still view him as our top prospect by quite some distance.

        His position, fielding ability, solid hit tool and truly elite plate discipline and control (it’s truly at an “80” level) make it highly unlikely that, in the long run, he will be anything worse than a “good” player and still very likely that he will be quite a bit better than that. He needs an offseason to collect himself and get stronger. If he’s still struggling by the end of next May, we can revisit his projections, but he has age, time, position and a ton of metrics on his side. I don’t feel bad giving him a “mulligan” for the year.

        1. Also, I read the article and thought it contained a somewhat “lazy” analysis. It suggests that JP Crawford is very injury prone. He’s had a few injuries, but nothing to suggest that it’s going to really hinder his development or become a pervasive issue, which is what the article implies. Also, we all know there is a decent chance he may only hit 8-12 home runs a year and his extra base power may be limited. But I don’t think that’s the major delta with him – I think the issue is whether his hit tool will be good enough for him to hit between .275-.295 (or better) or .240-.265. If it’s the former, rather than the latter, his outstanding plate discipline and fielding ability should make him a formidable player (4-5 WAR) even if the power never develops.

          People also need to keep in mind that this kid is 21 and has not only elite plate discipline (like Lenny Dykstra plate discipline – entirely off the charts), but elite hand-eye-coordination and body control. So he may develop power in his mid to late 20s, much as Freddy Galvis has. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again – if J.P. Crawford can hit close to 20 home runs he will be one of the top 15-20 players in baseball and I don’t at all discount his ability to do that over time.

          Let’s give him time – a mediocre AA and AAA batting average for a 21 year-old is not that big of a deal given his other skills an pedigree.

          1. I’ve also said many times, that I expect J.P. Crawford’s development to be slow and continuous. He will probably not knock your socks off from day one. He’s not that kind of a player. But I expect that he will have a long progression upwards as he leverages his plate discipline and learns how to turn on pitches. Give him time.

            1. Thanks for the above responses catch, it’s been a while since I’ve been active posting on the boards but we’ve known each other for a long long time now (7 years?)…

              Anyway moving forward, I agree with much of what your saying as it pertains to the non-power aspect to JP’s game. I’m likewise not super concerned with injuries. That said, his lack of power and endurance this year were major red flags for me not because I need him to hit 20 HR’s a year but because he needs to have enough power to force pitchers to pay for bad pitching.

              The last thing we need is another Tocci, who had all the raw talent in the world in a weak body that never developed (I know some folks still hold out hope for him but my patience has worn thin.).

              I do think JP will be a 55/60 from the SS position which yes, adds plenty of value to his profile, but in order for him to ever be a 1/2 hitter in a line-up, he’s going to have to have a .275 average or better. I also think his walk rate will drop at the major league level if he doesn’t have enough power to make pitchers pay. That’s not 20 HR power, but it’s 15, with another 30 doubles for sure. His 2015 numbers at A+ & AA combined (.288/.380/.414)were pretty much was I was hoping to see from him as a 24-30 year old MLB player but maybe with a little more power. This year at AAA I feel like we’ve seen him get exposed more then I was hoping for.

              The difference in those profiles to me is huge, one player is Freddy Galvis with a better walk rate and less power and the other is something totally different.

              To be a contending team in MLB we need players that are in the top 25 players in the game. It doesn’t have to come from the SS position, but it has to come from somewhere and right now I just don’t think we have enough blue chip prospects to project a future contender. It’s why I would have liked to see the Phillies finish in the bottom 3 for a couple years in a row.

            2. Nice points Supra. By the way, JP is not Tocci. I have spent a lot of time around both of them in spring training. JP is wiry and strong – he’s like a wiry wide receiver type, but very athletic. He definitely has the frame to add more strength – mostly in his chest, legs and shoulders. Tocci is another beast altogether. He’s built like a high school distance runner and this is not an exaggeration (my wife took a picture of him out of uniform – he has no muscle tone; it’s actually almost sad). The two are like night and day in terms of physical development.

  15. And while I’m on general comments, I’m really happy that Odubel is having a strong finish. He’s now at 3.5 fWAR and 4.3 bWAR. Sure, he’s frustrating at times, like many young players are. But he has all the tools (including hit tool and plate discipline) and he’s only 24 and played like a borderline all-star this year (which is what he was) and is under team control for another 4 years. I’m not saying he’s untouchable, but I am saying that if they trade him they better get a TON of high level talent in return. He is a very valuable commodity.

    1. One thing I would add, if we’re trading OH, we shouldn’t trade him for many “lessor” players. It’s the same philosophy I have with the Sixers, when you’re a team as far away from contention as the phillies are, you need to be consolidating many lessor talents into fewer major ones or at a bare minimum 1 for 1 it. You can always “fill in the roster” later.

      I don’t know what OH is worth on the trade market, but if I was the Phillies, I’ll 1 for 1 trade him for a top 5 overall MiLB player, or a single player who is equally exciting and just starting out his MLB career much like OH.

      No way would I trade him for “2 top 50 players MiLB players”.

      1 7 war player is worth multiples of 2 2.5 WAR players. I believe that whole-heartedly.

    2. If you are going strictly by WAR, then Odubel Herrera is probably the greatest Rule 5 choice in MLB history after their first two full seasons in the majors, at 8.1 bWAR.
      Josh Hamilton is a close second at 7.9 bWAR. then Jo Soria at 7.1WAR.

      1. Yes, and he’s soon going to be talked about as one of the greatest Rule 5 choices ever (and by the way, I don’t include among Rule 5 choices, players that were offered back and the offer was declined – that’s more like a DFA situation once the original team disowns the player). I forget the list now, but remember that #1 was Roberto Clemente and I thought #2 may have been Johan Santana or Hamilton. But after the first 4 or 5 guys, the quality drops off dramatically. I suspect Odubel will be in the top 5 or so before he finishes his career. What a pick!!!!

        1. Over a career…Clemente/Santana and Hamilton are probably the three best. Hopefully Hererra continues to progress and gets mentioned in that grouping someday.
          But dang….wish the Phillies would give him some English lessons….it would be weird for him to be on the big stage at Cooperstown with his interpreter next to him wearing a Phillies cap..

          1. Romus,

            Agree, but I’ve noticed in the past two interviews I’ve seen that he ends up in English, like saying “maybe, maybe, maybe” the other night.

            It’s like he’s understanding English but is afraid to speak it, so maybe he’s learning and just needs to develop confidence over time.

  16. Watching the Phillies last night, I liked the way Mackanin had the first three slots in the lineup set up. Hernandez, Quinn and Herrera all have above average speed and excellent on base percentages (.360, .357, .363). If not these exact hitters, these are still the type of hitters that I hope we will see at the top of the Phillies lineup going forward.

    1. I can see JPC eventually next season sliding into the 2hole, with Quinn/Herrera at the top, especially if OBP is their objective.

        1. Eventually I see him being a better than 275/375, but he is the type that seems to start fast and if not, can adjust.
          Catch’s response above is more thorough and gives a better analysis in JPC’s projection…..and cannot over-emphasize that age factor, it is really a critical component.
          The only concern I see is his physical strength, he really needs to get stronger or bigger.

          1. We all agree on his getting stronger. I think the Phillies’ brass is almost intentionally giving him a cold shoulder this season. They are going out of their way not to praise him or talk him up and I think it’s intentional. They don’t want him resting on his laurels. They want him to go home, hit the weights and get stronger and they may also want him to work on his swing to focus more on driving the ball (which I see as another current weakness and it’s a swing issue, not just a strength issue). They want him to know that he needs to overtake Freddy Galvis to get the job. They want him to have a sense of urgency. He seems like a decent, mature kid, however, and I think he’ll get the message and respond. As odd as it is to say, I expect him to be the biggest breakout prospect next year.

        2. BP Chat from Monday:
          Aldon (SF): Which NL East SS prospect (Amed, Dansby, JP) would you most like to build a team around and why? Are they all top 10 guys at this point?

          Trevor Strunk: That’s a good question. I think I’m still pretty high on Crawford’s potential, so I might say him, but it’s closer than I would have expected even a few months ago. I’m lower on Swanson than some, and I think that’s because I don’t really trust the power to develop — to me he looks like a good-not-great SS. I gotta admit, I slept a bit on Rosario, but was super high on him in dynasty leagues last year. I think Crawford splits the difference between floor and ceiling for me, but if I needed to swing for the fences? Rosario. And yeah, definitely top 10 guys at this point; it’s a stacked division in the middle infield.

  17. I do think MICKEY MO might help Jp . Jp has been the # 1 prospect for a little while now . If Mickey Mo can Come flying out of the gates next yr at Lakewood he could push Jp by mid season for the #1 ranking.
    I understand the Phillies are facing Sale but benching your hottest hitter in Herrera never seems like a good idea.

    1. Sale splits vs LHBs this year- BA.188/OBP.288……and he tends to hit lefty hitters as opposed to walking them

  18. Is this hit the Philly night wow Quinn 170 how can you hit him twice. I pray
    Tyler ok boy TJ is hot soon he they should start waking him.

      1. Ok Tj is white hot soon the pitcher’s will stop throwing him strikes so he will walk some. How Sale could hit Quinn twice , he’s 5 “10” 170 that’s pretty bad. Then Tyler Goeddel gets hit in the head not at all a good night. The Phillies hit Sale around some 1 of the best pitchers in the game. The Mets just were swept by the Braves ,out of the 3 teams that are tied for the NL wild card they all lost. I hope the Phillies can knock the out of the wild card spot.

  19. I happen to turn on the game, San Francisco was on, and saw something that made me go back to when pence played here. He misjudged a fly ball to lose the game. That was why I never liked him. He was one of the only guys I could remember who would just plain miss fly balls. But he has won championship and been a solid offensive player for san fran. but I never liked him

  20. We have been focused so much on Rhys Hoskins (a very good prospect; I think he’s terrific) that I think we have all to some extent overlooked what Tommy Joseph has done this year – me included. Look at his overall stats. Tommy barely played from 2013-15 due, largely, to his concussion issues. Last year he was awful at AAA again, probably due to the concussion issues and a lack of continuity and regular at bats. For him to come in this year as a borderline 40-man roster guy (I never expected him to be anything more than a place holder and AAAA player at first base) and hit 21 home runs in the major leagues with a very good slugging percentage and acceptable batting average in roughly a half season’s worth of ABs is staggering. Tommy has 65/70 in-game power – that’s nothing to take lightly. He also seems to be making some significant adjustments at the plate and, while his metrics at first base are not very good, it’s new position for him and he doesn’t look out of place there.

    Let’s not write off the possibility that our first baseman of the future could be staring right at us. Tommy Joseph could end up being a pretty solid major league player or better. At the very worst, he’s another asset that the team can use as it tries to add talent.

    1. He always had 60 power….his first 1500 PAs in the pros he had almost 50 HRs at 18, 19 and 20 years old.
      In HS in Arizona he hit 15 HRs in his senior season, later Cozens broke that mark and set the Arizona record.
      The duties of learning to catch in the pros probably slowed his bat down that much more…along with the injuries that came with catching.

  21. I was just about to post that. If his swing continues to develop, I think he is the everyday first baseman next year. His splits are identical, so that bodes well for him in the future.

    For that matter, what odds would you say they are that the Phillies run back the same infield in 2017? I feel like it’s about 95% at this point. At what position right now could the Phillies seriously upgrade in the offseason and be considerably better than what they already had?

    1. It will be the same infield. The Phillies won’t start Crawford’s clock early. And as good as Hoskins was at AA, it’s not better than Joseph’s .800+ OPS in the bigs.

      If Joseph keeps it up, look for Hoskins to be dealt.

      1. That’s an interesting point. I’ve had doubts about TJ but that power and quick bat are undeniable. His OBP would matter more if he were batting high in the lineup. Hopefully he can improve that anyway. He’s smart enough.

  22. I think they get a major league OF bat, and the season starts with the infield exactly as it is. TJ has done a much better job of hitting to all fields, and can still develop his OBP. He is aware of the necessity and I like a guy who knows what he needs to work on.

    1. Agree that the off-season will be about getting corner OF bats and some starting pitching.

      I expect they think their future IF is already in the system.

  23. I’f been a big Tj fan when I saw the ball jump of his bat. Really though about mid season he looking great he has that cannon of a arm too.he said last yr he wasn’t in shape he looks good now. I love the story too never give up your dream.

  24. Took a closer look at Joseph’s year and he really just needs to stop swinging at so many bad pitches. It’s actually the same issue that a few of our other younger players are having. There are 258 batters who’ve had 300 PAs this year. We have a bunch of guys who swing at a high percentage of balls outside the zone:

    Freddy Galvis (18th highest) – 39.5%
    Ryan Howard (24th) – 38.3%
    Peter Bourjos (34th) – 36.5%
    O. Herrera (50th) – 35%
    Tommy Joseph (54th) – 34.7%
    Maikel Franco (56th) – 34.5%

    So none of those guys crack the top 200 hitters in this one measure of plate discipline. Only Cesar Hernandez at 25% (46th) does well here. Roman Quinn has also been awesome in his short time up, He’s only swinging at 18% of pitches outside the zone. The league average is about 30%.

    It’s also something to keep in mind when projecting Nick Williams and Jorge Alfaro. Those two guys in particular seem to struggle with this (according to scouting reports and K/BB numbers).

    1. Tj is the only rookie there and he has 301 atbats so it’s to be expected. The Phillies are the youngest team in the league. Saying that there no way the hitting coach is coming back.

      1. Yeah, I agree that it’s probably time to move on from their hitting coach. Franco, Galvis, and Joseph had this same problem in the minors though, so I’m not sure how much improvement we’ll see from them. Even if you just look at players 26 and younger (there’s 88 total), Franco (66th), Joseph (68th), Herrera (69th), and Galvis (79th) all rank low.

        It’s especially important for Joseph to show some improvement since he plays a position almost entirely dependent on his bat. And he has competition starting next year in Hoskins, who’ll be 24 and will have an outside chance of winning the position coming out of spring training.

        1. Whoops, didn’t mean to give you only 3 stars – re Hoskins, thought I read “outstanding” when it was “outside”. Sorry.

  25. Fourteen months ago I would not have imagined this close of an occurrence.
    Hamels….42 starts……6.4-bWAR
    Eickhoff….39 starts…..4.8-bWAR

      1. And barring any sort of injury, it would not surprise me if he is opening day starter at Cincinnati next season.

  26. Good stuff, gentlemen. Eickhoff is a beast no doubt. Gives up a lot of solo HRs ala Cole BUT I’d give him the ball in a big game before anybody else on the staff.

  27. WestCoast, that was an interesting piece. We have talked on this site the whole second half of the season about that same thing. He has talent, quick hands and a good swing. His plate approach is horrible. I know nothing about him personally, and am very willing to disregard the issues of hustling every play and leave that to Dusty Wathan next year. But, he has to do something about his OBP, cut down on his Ks and start to walk, or he has no way to make it in the Majors.

  28. Your kidding me Mack can’t manage this team anymore . He’s to close to the players Gomez did a good job this yr for never being a closer . But com ‘ on you have an big bullpen now use it.

    1. Tim…after last nights heart breakin loss at Citi Field ….Phillies are either picking 9th or 10th in next years draft….Brewers have the same record, but not sure who has precedence. Nine games left…..and if the Angels and As get hot for their last nine or ten……then the Phillies could very well move into the 7th position again, as they were with Nola in ’14.

      1. Last night’s game was a mess. Can anyone explain why Neris was not used to close that game – Gomez’ arm looks like it is about to fall off ! ???????? Why not try the best bullpen at the end of the game ?

      2. I was psyched about the loss; I’m rooting for them to lose right now. Every loss gets them closer to an improved draft position. Basically I want the young players to play great and the game to be lost by scrubs I don’t care about like Frank Herrmann.

        1. This game wasn’t it was lost by the Manager , Gomez, and The young reliever Ramos who keeps giving up home runs. Phillies actually need almost a full bullpen . Neris is really the only one show the ability to day in day out to a mlb out. Gomez is a nice 7 ing pitcher, Ramos is still young with Rodriguez there’s a little hope. They invest in the bullpen and Outfield .

      3. Lmao you m8, you and nola. I hope if its seventh we get a better pitcher than him. Romus did you notice so far, and its a short sample. Quinn cant hit a curve ball

        1. rocco…..let the kid come around, Quinn does so many other things well. And Nola is not done yet……guys like that rebound.
          And if the 7th pick is there for the Phillies…..I do hope it is a college pitcher that can be up in 2019 sometime. I look at the Braves stockpile of arms and get a little concerned about the future for the Phillies and their fortunes.

          1. Romus I love most of his game. My concern is next year he goes to triple a. There he will see a ton of breaking balls. I really think he needs more at bats at higher level that’s all. He could be a stud in another year or two. Lost time hurt this kid. Romus the mets had a stock pile and look what happen. Pitchers are fragile. but Atlanta knows how to draft.

            1. rocco…very correct on the fluid nature of pitchers. Though, Mets got another hot arm in LHP Tom Szapucki….but he is 2/3 years away. But you can’t enough arms in your system. Plus you also need the ones who are the Kyle Hendricks types….Tim’s boy. Guys who are mnore control and less velo.
              They seem to avoid the major injuries that the hi-velo pitchers incur.
              When you look at it now…Harvey, deGrom, Wheeler and Matz are all now on the fringe of extreme concern for the Mets FO.

      4. Watch out for The Rockies there schedule is really tough . The White Sox are in a free fall , The Mets bullpen is tired and just was swept by The Braves. The Phillies can beat the Mets even swept the series. I never been one 1 to say let’s lose now to win later. It’s funny how the Giants , Dodgers, Red Sox and Texas really don’t rebuild they reload.

        1. Tim….Sox finished last a few years ago in the AL-East…..wallah…Andrew Benentendi is then selected. Look at the Giants record prior to the Tim Lincecum draft in ’06, then Bumgarner in ’07 and then Posey at 5 in ’08….Dodgers, also like the Sox and the other notables….comes down to $$$$ to spend in excessive amounts.

          1. Here’s what I’m trying to say in a nut shell. Good teams that win most of the time don’t have to lose in order to get better.they draft well no matter where they end up. THE Red Sox 2011 draft 1st rd Matt Barnes , 1 A 40 th pick Jackie Bradley ,5 rd Mookie Betts, 9 rd Travis Shaw. The Red Sox 2010 record 89 73 . The Giants 2008 Posey 1st Crawford 4 rd , Brandon Belt 5th rd , Derek Law 9th rd , Matt Duffy 18 rd. There’s a reason why The Giants won 3 world Series they have a system and know how to draft same with the Red Sox .St louis is the classic example on how reload and not rebuild . Matt Carpenter 13 th rd , Septhen Piscotty 1st rd 36 pick , Mike Wacha 1st 19 pick luke weaver 1 st 27 pick. Good teams don’t lose to get a higher draft pick . The Steelers , the Pats , the Seattle all have great systems . The Pats just won a game with there 3rd Sting Qb this wk.The LA kings , Red wings , the Devils won how many Cups with the zone trap. The Flyers will be the next Philadelphia team to win a champion ship. The Phillies FO does have a plan it’s control the stike zone. They only had control of the last 2 drafts and 1 FA period so there mark really isn’t on the team yet . Don’t be shocked if the pick a bat again next yr. KC won the World Series with there offense , I said a month ago I said Boston based on the same thing.

            1. I see your point…..draft for results in the lower rounds.
              But it helps to strike gold when it counts the most…would the Giants have won three…’10, ’12, ’14….without Lincecum, Posey and Bumgarner? All top ten picks.
              Would the Royals been there twice and won once without Mustakas and Hosmer in their lineups…both high first rounders. Cardinals did happen to have first round draft choices like pitchers like Carpenter and Wainwright leading them also…maybe not top ten picks but first rounders.
              Bottom line you need both the role player and the top of the draft talents to lead a team to the goal.

            2. Tim, minor point regarding “only had control of the last 2 drafts”. Andy MacPhail was hired on June 29, 2015 and Matt Klentak on October 26, 2015 The 2016 draft was the FIRST draft by the new FO. That’s even less time to influence and leave a mark on the org.

            3. Patient hitters that understand the strike zone can’t get here fast enough for the Phillies. Way too many guys in the Phillies lineup who routinely chase balls out of the zone – Galvis, Howard, Franco, and Herrera are probably the worst offenders. Joseph and Altherr do it too much as well. Big reason why the Phillies have the worst OBP in the majors.

            4. Jim I was speaking of Alvarez mostly for the draft that is . He loves the hit tool and drafting pitchers with Command and control . I know Macphail runs the ship and it’s his system but he let’s Alvarez run the draft and scouting department. Ramos I was talking about the top ten moslty. I think Alvarez said there more players drafted between picks 10 to 20 that play in the majors then in the top 10. I mean is you have keep picking in the top 10 your not doing your job because your Team is still losing. You can always get lucky like the Nats and have to studs waiting there for you.

  29. Mackanin has not distinguished himself as the future manager. I don’t care how well he connects with LA players if he can’t push the right AND OBVIOUS buttons when using personnel. Ws and Ls aren’t the issue now. I don’t blame him for the W-L record. He should be evaluated for how he performs now like every prospect.

    1. 8mark…..he only has one more year on his contract, and they may then decide if he stays on for the future and the next core. There may be other candidates for the job, maybe even Dusty Wathan….but my choice would be Fredi Gonzalez….been fired twice…marlins and Braves…. and still has a winning percentage in the majors….506.

      1. I was campaigning for Raul Ibanez 2 years ago. Not sure what his standing is at this point. Thought he’d be a good fit for a young team.

        1. Aside from the fact that he seems like a good guy and is obviously committed to baseball what makes us think he would be a better manager than anyone else or could make effective game-day decisions? He has no track record at all.

        1. philabalt….hah.
          I like guys who were fired once or twice before, they seem to know what not to do in their next job. Guys like Torre, Baker, Girardi, Bochy…..though Bochy was let go for reasons other than wins and losses. Even Tony LaRussa was fired once upon a time by the White Sox.

    2. Pete has loyalty issues and does not want to offend the veterans. Gomez up until September was doing a fantastic job but obviously is not a good option now. Neris is our best option but Ramo’s outing was bad but hopefully just a blip in his development.

  30. Romus, I think the Phils win any tie with other teams so would pick before the Brewers. I think Mackanin’s handling of Ryan Howard came from the top so I can’t blame him. But, I never thought he would be the Manager when this team contends again. Bowa had more input into Cesar and Doobie’s progression as hitters than Pete has.

  31. From Keith Law chat

    Jack: Is Franklyn Kilome a potential number 2? or backend?

    Klaw: As with Cotton, if you’re talking absolute best-case scenario, #2 is reasonable. If you’re talking realistic ceiling, then it’s lower than that, with high probability that he’s a very good reliever.

  32. Who said, “Maybe it’s time to try another closer”? Who said, “We’re trying to win every game we can”? If “who” said all that, why is he parading Gomez out there in the ninth inning? Rodriguez had a great eighth inning. Why not at least have him start the ninth?

    I’m in Storrs, CT and my cable provider gives me all of the Red Sox, Yankees, and Mets games so I get to see the Phillies a lot (for being in Ct). But once Gomez came out to pitch the ninth and then Reyes hit the home run, I turned the game off. It was torture!

    I like Mackanin but I don’t think he’s really good enough to be a major league manager. He’s really showing a lack of baseball smarts of late, especially last night. Fredi Gonzalez would be a welcome sight in my mind.

    1. Agree with this. I like Mackanin as well. but it’s pretty clear to most everyone that Gomez has run out of gas in September. If Mackanin really wanted to win that game against the Mets on Thursday, he doesn’t bring out Gomez for the 9th inning. It’s just silly to have zero flexibility about who must pitch the 9th inning for a 3-out save, especially when Gomez has a 14+ ERA in September. As you say, JRod was very effective in the 8th inning and there is no reason to think he couldn’t go one more inning. It’s maddening.

  33. seeing Steve Clevinger suspended for his tweets makes me think of the guy he got traded for, Mark Trumbo, and another 40 homer guy this year, Khris Davis. I wouldnt have been pushing for the Phils to get either of those guys as they are low obp, high strikeout guys (and especially Trumbo due to being an FA and his defense), but thinking about how having either of those two behind Franco might have really helped him, and the other young players in the lineup.
    A’s gave up 2 decent but not big time prospects to get Davis, and O’s just Clevinger for Trumbo.

    1. Briliant. One of the best story lines in the organization. He was merely a wild card for me a season ago. I commented at the time that I would be more excited if it became clear he would stick at C (I didn’t think his bat would play elsewhere). He Don’t be surprised if he sneaks into the top 25 this offseason

  34. Ok so I’m prob over thinking this but is there any value to having a former professional baseball player as one of your tv guys? The reason why I’m saying this is because well think about it . . . They travel with the team and are in fairly significant contact with the players. Why wouldn’t you want someone there who could kinda be like an extra assistant coach. Again I really think I’m over thinking but I wonder if like a really OCD or over thinking gm ever took this into consideration.

    1. And I realize the gm isn’t the one who hires the tv guys but I’m sure if he wanted to he could get who he wanted in that spot.

      1. EricD……you already have two hitters and a pitcher calling the games…..Matt Stairs, Ben Davis and Larry Anderson…..and Hall of Famer Mike Schmidt on the weekend home games. They offer much advice on the air……but realize the proper protocol on the field.

    2. The manager and coaching staff might see the TV guy as intrusive. Especially if he was chosen by Comcast.

      I remember the pitching coach (Dubee?) having a fit when a national TV guy tried to coach up one of his pitchers. Even though he was a former professional reliever and former Phillie, Mitch Williams.

  35. woke up with the loss of Jose Fernandez (RIP). i know he’s a Marlin but i appreciate great talent. thoughts and prayers to his family and love ones.

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