Phuture Phillies 2016 Reader Top 30 #22

Ben Lively was selected the Readers’ Poll #21 prospect.  He received 100 of 371 votes (27%). He finished comfortably ahead of Nick Pivetta (71 votes, 19%), and Jhailyn Ortiz (58 votes, 16%).

The Phillies acquired Lively on December 31, 2014 from the Cincinnati Reds for Marlon Byrd and cash.  He had completed the 2014 season at Double-A Pensacola and was assigned to the Reading, the Phillies Double-A affiliate for the 2015 season.

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Lively was drafted out of high school by Cleveland in the 26th round of the 2010 Amateur Draft.  He declined to sign and attended the University of Central Florida.  He was drafted again as a junior by Cincinnati in the 4th round of the 2013 Amateur Draft.  He signed on June 11th.

Lively began his pro career later in June of 2013 in short season ball in the Low-A Pioneer League.  He finished with a single start in the Single-A Midwest League.  Lively started the 2014 season in the Advanced-A California League where he made 13 starts.  He was promoted to the Double-A Southern where he made 13 more starts.

Lively posted double-digit K/9 and BB/9 < 3.0 at his first three stops.  In Double Pensacola his K/9 dipped to 9.5 which wasn’t alarming but his BB/9 ballooned to 4.5 and his K/BB dropped below 3.29 for the first time in his career.  His WHIP also reached 1.33 another career high.

In 2015, Lively spent an entire season at one stop.  He pitched in the Reading rotation, and posted numbers that disappointed a lot of readers.  He went 8-7 but his 4.13 ERA was a career high.  His K/9 dropped to a career low of 7.0, his WHIP climbed to 1.427, and he gave up more hits than IP for the first time in his career.  However, his BB/9 dropped to 2.8 and his K/BB rose slightly to 2.47.

Perhaps the most discouraging aspect of his 2015 season was his ineffectiveness over his final 8 starts.  He posted a single win and 7 no decisions.  Twice he gave up 6 ER.  However, he did hold Richmond to one unearned run in his final start of the season in the playoffs.

Top 30 so far:

  1. Crawford
  2. N. Williams
  3. Thompson
  4. Appel
  5. “C” Randolph
  6. Quinn
  7. Alfaro
  8. Kilome
  9. Knapp
  10. Eflin
  11. Hoskins
  12. Kingery
  13. Pinto
  14. Cozens
  15. Tocci
  16. Goeddel
  17. Medina
  18. Cordero
  19. Eshelman
  20. Canelo
  21. Lively

I’ve seen the comments regarding Jesse Biddle.  Here are some facts beyond his stat line. Biddle was ranked 5th thru 7th on some 2015 pre-season polls including ours, Matt Winkelman’s, Kiley’s at FanGraphs, and BP’s.  He was not in BA’s top 10 nor was he in Keith Law’s top 15.

After the 2015 season, Biddle didn’t make it onto Mike Drago’s Reading Eagle survey of people who cover the organization.  He did rate 18th on MLB’s December poll, but was left off their most recent poll, nor has he been placed on Pittsburgh’s.  He didn’t make Matt’s top 50.  So far during this year’s Reader Top 30, Biddle has received only two write in votes.  And even more damning is that I have received zero requests to add him to the poll.

So, we have a player that no one considers to be among our top prospects anymore. Additionally, his performance above Clearwater has been erratic.  His BB/9 is high, his K/9 is dropping, his K/BB poor.  After 6 years, he reached a point in his career where he should be more consistent than he has showed.  Trading him saves him the ignominious fate of being released or non-tendered by the Phillies.  An outcome that I am convinced would have occurred shortly after he came off the DL, rehabbed, and proved he was healthy.  I’ve seen this happen before down here.  Biddle would have certainly been the biggest name to suffer this.  The DFAwaiver claim, and subsequent trade saves face for both Biddle and the Phillies.

Next up is your selection for #22.

92 thoughts on “Phuture Phillies 2016 Reader Top 30 #22

  1. Jim
    I understand that Jesse has been bad the past two years but in 2013 he had a decent year. He was pretty young for AA at 21 years old and he had something like 10k’s per 9 although his walk rate was horrible he still had decent numbers. His 2014 and 2015 season were bad but imo you have to put some of that on his injuries. Now exactly how much of his bad performance was due to his various injuries is up for debate and everyone will have their own opinion on the matter. But doesn’t he have more value than some of the other relief pitchers that are on this team? Even if he comes back in 2016 and he his horrible how bad does that hurt the Phillies? Can’t they just release him or trade him if that happens?
    I’m all for stockpiling major league assets but I feel like this is a crude move. I just don’t see how there are more players at the bottom of the Phillies 40 man roster who have more possible potential. Don’t get me wrong I don’t think that Biddle is gonna be a bonafide all star but he still has major league potential imo as a bullpen arm.
    I felt the same way when the Phillies released Dom Brown and then proceeded to pick up Bourjos on the waiver wire. I don’t think Dom is gonna be a bonafide all star either but he was once before I just don’t think any of the guys that we picked up (outside of possibly Goedell) are going to be part of the future. I just don’t think we should give up on our own prospects to go dumpster diving for other reclamation projects. I also understand that we are probably going to have a major “cleaning house” as far as our 40 man roster goes in the next two years it just seems like a waste as of now. What’s your opinion Jim?

      1. My opinion? I’m more sorry about the loss of Sam McWilliams. David Whitehead, and Jonathan Arauz than I am over the loss of Jesse Biddle. He was a first round pick and a local kid whose original ceiling might have been projected too high to begin with. Now, even if that is not an accurate statement, I believe that it remained unrealistically high over the remainder of his career in the organization. I think the trade was the best outcome for both Biddle and the Phillies.

        I can overlook his ERA (which wasn’t bad) and record since they are dependent on factors outside his control, but I can’t overlook a 5.3 BB/9 and 1.88 K/BB and call his 2013 Reading numbers decent.

        1. I would agree about Arauz and McWilliams, but at least we got something for those guys (maybe that’s debatable in McWilliams’ case). I look at the two relievers we chose over Biddle and see two guys who might not make the team this year, and will almost definitely not contribute to our next winning club.

          The bigger issue for me is that this is another of Klentak’s moves that I look at and wonder “Why?” He’s barely had any time on the job and I already have some questions about him, and I hate to be the guy who panics too soon (though I’m not at that point yet).

          1. Arauz was a serious subtraction from the farm, but we got a great return in that trade. I also was sorry to see Sam McWilliams gone. I also would rather have paid the $16 million we committed in the trades for two grade C pitchers on one player with more of a future and just signed a AAAA guy for the other spot. I’m not concerned with the loss of Whitehead.

        2. That’s looking at whole-year stats. Biddle started well in Reading in 2013 and 2014, doing badly by the end of the season, but that also was post-injury and post-illness. He truly did look like a legit #1 and top prospect at the start of both seasons. He should not have pitched through pertussis recovery, plantar fascitis, concussion recovery. In 2015, he basically stank the whole season, but he was pitching with a sore elbow. So, I don’t really know how good a pitcher Biddle can become. It’s a shame we won’t get to find out. He’s been hurt a lot, but mostly not arm and TJ is an injury most guys recover from as good as new. Mecias didn’t, but most do.

    1. Ya, I was disappointed in this trade. I think Biddle still has more value than this. I am not convinced that there is that big of a problem between his ears. I remember the hail storm in 2014 in the area. I had major dents all over my car. He could have easily had a nasty concussion as he claims that year. Last year he got off to a good start in Reading and then you could see him loosing velocity.

      I know in the jobs I have had that customer and co-worker perception is a big part of success. I wonder how much of this is that somehow Biddle generated a lot of negative perception both internally and with the fans. My guess is that this is a bit of the reason for all this.

      I hope he has a great career and that Pburg reaps the benefits. And maybe we’ll get a decent reliever in return?

        1. Not necessarily. As I said above he probably got a rep internally with the Phils. They tried to get him through waivers and Pburg saw value. The Phils were not in a good bargaining position that’s the best they could get.

          I’m not the great Salami but you can mark my words, Biddle will make it to the Pro’s and at least have a Gavin Floyd type career. I know most folks don’t think much of Floyds career either but it will be better than the reliever we picked up.

          Don’t doubt the…..oh forget it 😉

            1. True, but we currently have a lot of guys on the 40-man who aren’t going to be there going into the next Rule 5. There are a lot of middle relievers, who will sort themselves out. Howard gone. Ruiz gone. Our two one-year stop-gap SP gone. I’m not at all sure Asche will still be with the team.

            2. Ya I think there are some questionable guys on the 40 man now, who knows whats up by then. Could have put him back on the 40 before the rule 5, but its a mute point now.

            3. … and Biddle was one of those questionable guys. I don’t see any of this as a reason to keep a failed, former prospect around. Pointing out that there are questionable guys on the 40 doesn’t sway the discussion in favor of Biddle. We’re just trying to quantify different levels of “questionable”. It’s not like JB still has even a remote chance of reaching his former ceiling. The current ceiling I see bandied about now is middle rotation starter or reliever. Sounds like a fungible piece, if I may borrow a lightning rod term from previous threads.

              This Adam Berry column shows that the Pirates now Biddle is a project.
              http://m.pirates.mlb.com/news/article/163564958/pirates-acquire-pitcher-jesse-biddle
              The kind of project they have had success with in the past. – A.J. Burnett, Francisco Liriano. Edison Volquez, and J.A Happ. The big difference I see here is that these were all successful MAJOR league pitchers whose careers the Pirates were able to resuscitate. (Happ looks like the least successful with the biggest rebound.)

              Geez, we’re talking about a guy moving DOWN prospects lists, after 6 seasons in the organization. He wasn’t going to make our top 30. Why all the angst?

  2. But Biddlr has something else holding him back, his lack of confidence. The guy looked lost and looked like he was giving up this year. His mental weakness does not inspire anyone that he can overcome obstacles in the future and turn his game around.

    1. yes, plus they may be looking ahead projecting their 40 man roster for next year at this time and realize they wouldnt have a spot for him, coming off the injury, not having pitched in a year, so just cut ties now and let another team bring him his rehab and do what they want to do with him.

  3. I notice that a few people have started voting for Cord Sandberg. Its surprising to me that a player can perform this poorly for 3 years and still inspire confidence that he is a prospect. There isn’t much room on MLB rosters for Left Fielders who can’t hit.

  4. Wow that is a little surprising and alarming. I don’t even have Ortiz in my top 30. I don’t care how much money they gave him. He’ll have to play some ball first before I consider him that high.

    1. Ortiz is possibly a fringe top 30 player (I think there are players ahead of him on this list right now), however he is one who could shoot up the board quickly. He is at the point where he has to start playing against better competition to show if he is a true prospect.

    2. Why? Eshelman pitched only 10 IP, and they weren’t especially positive innings, yet he has already been selected. Some who supported him this high pointed to his being a high 2nd rounder for Houston. Why is Ortiz alarming, while Eshelman isn’t? Ortiz was ranked from #1 to #5 in the past international class. That’s equivalent to top 15 picks in the draft. Nobody ranked Eshelman among the top 15 candidates in that draft.

      1. allentown…FWIW, BA had Eshelman at 26 going to the Angels. MLB and Jim Callis had him in the second round somewhere.

      2. I did not support Eshelman at 19 but he is 21 and he did play at a high level college program. Cal State Fullerton is a real deal baseball program. Certainly not the equivalent of Hi A but at least there is a body of demonstrated success.

        The Ortiz alarms are blinking like a neon size. See the video below. Once the hooks starts coming at him he’s lost. He has no balance even in his BP session he’s almost falling over after every swing.

        If that speaks more boom then bust to you then we’ll just chalk it up to “we disagree”

        1. It’s not your or my opinion that I’m relying upon (I have no particular independent reason to rate him highly, in the total absence of stats or seeing him play). He was the guy Sal wanted out of this year’s LA class. He’s the guy Sal and our top brass thought was worth $4.2 million. That’s a lot higher value than a guy predicted to go #26 in the draft, especially when the team which was supposed to take him #26, didn’t find him worth that high a pick. If Ortiz is a bust, then we have to seriously correct how we scout LA talent, but Ortiz is the favorite guy for our LA scouts in… forever, judging by the whopping bonus. So, no this is not my evaluation of his current approach at the plate. It is the Phillies professional baseball guys looking at what he is and thinking they can turn him into something really, really good. So, you and I don’t disagree in interpreting the video. You disagree with the Phillies brain trust. That doesn’t mean you won’t turn out to be correct, but one can’t praise the results that Sal and his staff get and then turn around and totally dismiss their wunderkind, before he has his first professional AB. If you don’t trust Sal and his team, then your reaction is logical. If you don’t think we should even rate guys before they actually play in pro ball, then I support that logic. But I’m not going to say our $4.2 million man doesn’t deserve to be placed here, if we are, in fact, rating him.

          1. That’s a fair point Allentown I think Sal my have been trolled into making that signing if you look at the timing of it. Middleton was muscling his way in and Monty and the crew were being muscled out.

            I think they wanted to make a splash or a statement that they were open for business and ready to pay like they never had before in the LA market.

            The timing of it was off in terms of the available players IMO. Ortiz was there and willing to take their money so away they went.

    3. No reason to be alarmed…people don’t just hand out 4 mil . And at one point he was ranked #1 international prospect. He did fall but he is a legit prospect.

  5. no point playing the carnival game if you don’t want the prize even if you win. meaning, I don’t vote for low ceiling but high floor prospects.

    Windle, at best, is a middle reliever for a few years before they burn out his arm. Meh.

    IMO there are many players with high ceilings still on the board. All have their flaws, which is why they are still in the board in the 20s. But I can’t understand voting for a guy with no hope of being an impact player.

    1. I totally agree with that concept. its all about ceiling at this point. I voted for Pivetta again as he has a big arm. I have Pujols next. I have Ortiz at 30 as I want to believe in him but we’ll have to see.

  6. Has D. Sweeney been going backwards?

    Just last year I thought he was a top 15 guy in the dodgers system, now based on the last couple of polls he looks like he’ll end up 25-30 in ours.

    Not a huge amount of upside, but he’ll play in the majors.

      1. v1…… D Sweeney’s MiLB metrics were not outstanding, and you still have to take into consideration his advanced age in the PCL last year. However, he does have plus physical tools with defensive versatility..

        1. If he were a plus fielding 2B he’d be rated higher, but he isn’t. He doesn’t have a corner OF bat and he isn’t a plus fielding OF, let alone a plus CF. That makes him likely a utility guy. Versatile utility guys, especially cheap ones, are needed and he likely plays in Philly this season, but how valuable is a utility player who can’t play SS?

    1. “Not a huge amount of upside, but he’ll play in the majors.”

      This quote is the reason he should be dropping. v1 just made the argument for why people shouldn’t be voting for Windle. I would make that exact same argument for Sweeney which is why he’s still on the board..

      1. No, his .741 OPS in AAA is also a big part of it. If he has to play corner OF, that doesn’t cut it.

    1. Why not? He’s a 70-80 power tool and runs well enough to play corner OF. Our LA scouts rank him very high.

      1. I’m not trying to pick on the kid and I’m glad they stepped up and signed him but let’s keep it real the power they saw was workout or BP power. (Larry Greene) He hasn’t faced any competition the likes of what he will face over here.

        To each their own I respect the opinions of others on this board and god knows the LA scouts know better than I do.

        I’m just of the opinion that I’ll wait and see what a kid does over here in game action before placing him that high.

          1. DMAR….there is a plus in watching that video…it was back in July and he may have advanced some since, both at the plate on the field and at the dinner table.. But still can understand your ‘show me first’ philosophy on rating him.

            1. That’s why I love you Romus you are a silver lining guy. I see a bunch of guys way ahead of him at this point. I will say Windle is not one of them. I have him mid-to late 30’s.

              I’m not seeing anything more than a possible lefty specialist out of the pen and his splits against lefties don’t even suggest he can be highly effective in that role. Remember Austin Wright…

          2. DMAR,

            Thanks. That swing furthers my skepticism. I’ll repeat for anyone who has misunderstood my previous comments, I’m rooting for this kid, I just question so much faith in someone so unproven. That the scouts thought he’s a top pick is fine but, like some others, I want to see some game experience before placing him high on a prospect list.

            1. FrankF…….although when you think about it, 22nd on an org’s prospect list is not considered to be very high.

          3. Yes, work to be done. Two things I noticed – his stride is inconsistent and his hands are quieter than I would expect for a young power hitter.These look like BP at bats. I saw him in game situations during Instructs. His patience at the plate was encouraging. He saw 4-5 pitches most ABs.

            1. Jimmy you’ve seen a lot of Encarnacion as well…care to compare the two players!

              Which player is more athletic or which player is more likely to stick in the OF?

            2. Romus,

              Good point about 22 not being high. And looking at the remaining candidates, I’d probably put Ortiz at 29 following the same argument of confidence in the scouts that has been made here.

          4. Well I know I will get ripped. But I watch him too dmar. I don’t see great bat speed. doesn’t stay back on the ball. Long swing.. I don’t know how you correct a slow bat. but staying back he can learn.

        1. I just ask myself: how many amateur bonuses bigger than $4 million have the Phillies ever handed out. They really, really like this kid.

  7. I don’t understand the Biddle situation at all. He was a high pick and just had TJ. The recovery rate and future success can be quite high. There are enough stiffs on the 40 man that they could have seen how his recovery is. I think they miscalculated and thought no one would claim him. He certainly has way more up side than Medina.

    1. Your time line is incomplete. Biddle was a high pick, played decreasingly well over 6 seasons, and just had TJ surgery. The intervening 6 years are what led to his being DFA-ed. I don’t think there was any miscalculation by the new management group. If anything, I think they coldly calculated the move and were happy with the possible outcomes. If he cleared waivers, he could spend the year on LHV’s 7-day DL. If he was claimed, they could work out a trade. The fact that they did not pull Biddle back from waivers is an indication that his time was up in the organization.

    1. Agreed- I have been voting Pivetta (his bad Reading performance not withstanding) for a few rounds. He’s got the stuff but needs to refine it (you can’t teach 97 moph heat). Couldn’t tell you the odds that he does put it together, but his potential alone makes me vote for him over obvious future 5th OF and middle relievers

  8. I’m surprised that this board is giving Ortiz love over guys like Pujols and Encarnacion, who have similar or better skills, are older, and are playing at higher levels. I can only conclude that some people prefer to vote for guys with no record whatsoever, because they have yet to disappoint them in any way. The flip side of that is that a guy like Pujols shows flashes of what he can do in Williamsport and he is all but out of the conversation at this point, because his overall stats are kind of mediocre. I can understand a glass half-full vs. half-empty debate on him. But voting for Ortiz is like saying: I prefer that other glass I’ve never seen and I’ve only heard vaguely described.

    And another thing: given his age, it seems like its’ a longshot that Ortiz will even play in the GCL this year, so we may be another whole season away from having any kind of decent information about him. I wonder if some people will drop him down the list next year on the argument that “he hasn’t started to show results.”

    Ok, now that I got that off my chest: Grullon again. Actually he’s a good example of the very trend I’m describing. He ranked #17 in 2014, based on almost zero track record, and #11 last year, after putting up some very shaky hitting numbers. I feel like the things to like about him are still there and the things he hasn’t done well are things we always knew were going to take some time to develop. And yet he’s dropping like a rock. People are impatient.

    1. When it comes to those three guys, I rank them: 1) Pujols 2) Ortiz 3) Encarnacion

      Pujols first because I think he has the most upside, and despite his numbers, scouts said some nice things about him last year. He’s a breakout candidate. Ortiz ahead of Encarnacion because, like you said, he hasn’t been disappointing yet and Encarnacion is at the bottom of the defensive spectrum.

      1. I keep seeing people say that “scouts are saying nice things about him”, but I haven’t seen names or quotes. Not saying it isn’t true, but I haven’t seen any links from even his biggest boosters.

        1. http://www.baseballprospectus.com/prospects/eyewitness_bat.php?reportid=278

          There’s an eval and comment from the same scout. The Phillies also acknowledged that there was a hitch in his swing last year, according to Mitch Rupert. Apparently they decided to wait until instructs to work on it.

          http://philliesminorthoughts.com/jose-pujols-and-evaluating-in-context/

            1. Thanks, Jim. No problem; I figured it was something like that, and gtrego got the idea across with his post.

          1. If the Phillies look to him down the road, then Pujols will have to be exposed to the Rule 5 in November of this year, similar to Tocci last year.. The only plus is, he will not even reach AA ball in Reading by then, so he will be a passover.
            He really need to start to put up the numbers that the scouts and some blog site guys think he is capable of doing.

          2. Well, that’s good to see. I have Pujols #29 on my own list, based solely on things I’ve heard from unnamed scouts. He surely isn’t a player you can get behind based on his boxscore… But at least he’s not nearly as bad as Cord Sandberg…

            I think the biggest thing I have against Pujols, is that I can not remember a player failing at SS ball 3 times, then make it to the majors. Domingo Santana struggled in full-season, but he didnt really at SS. I don’t know that there are many successful ML players that didn’t breeze through SS.

        2. He was rated #13 in NYPL by BA with these quotes.

          “I really liked him,” the scout said. “The bat has life and he’s a line-drive hitter . . . I think he can be a 15-20 home run guy. When you look at him at 19, I think he’s going to be a good major league player.”

          An aggressive slasher, Pujols still strikes out too much and is prone to chasing breaking balls outside of the zone. But one scout said he saw Pujols be selective at times and look for a pitch to hit—an advanced trait for a hitter of his age and background.

          Everyone I have talked to has positive things to say about Pujols. He is not a perfect prospect, but he is much better than you scouting a SS stat line

    2. Pujols has played 3 seasons of SS ball and hasn’t done anything. Encarnacion has played in the GCL for 2 seasons and hit a little in the 2nd try, but not nearly enough for a 1B only player. Encarnacion didn’t hit as well as Lucas Williams last year. Ortiz hasn’t failed yet.

      1. Yup that seems reasonable Ortiz hasn’t failed therefore he is the 22nd best prospect in our system.

        And is there anyone looking at Ortiz today that believes his body is going to allow him to stay in the OF. He’s worse athletically than Encarnacion was at 16.

        1. Be moves better than Encarnacion did at the same stage, and he was a much higher ranked prospect than Encarnacion at the same stage.

          1. ok it will be better for all of us if you’re right and I’m wrong. In Ortiz I see the next coming of the Galvis and Tocci debates or yor

            1. Well Ortiz for certain is not Galvis or Tocci. He could not be more dissimilar. He may crap out as LGJ or he may be Willie Stargell, but he certainly isn’t going to be Carlos Tocci. We are never going to worry whether or not Ortiz can add muscle and power, nor are we ever going to watch him roam around CF like a gazelle.

      2. Encarnacion is only 18 he will be 19 in August so he has more time. Ortiz can grow into a first baseman or slim down and play RF. Jordan saw and said he has an above avg arm and more speed then you think. However most expert’s said Eshelman could be a fast riser because of his plus, plus control. He did dominate college ball his floor is better , Ortiz ceiling is better depends on which one you like.I hope both make it,Trying to judge how a 16 yr old will be in 4 or 5 yrs based on his tools is really hard . The high priced LA kids Grullon, Pujols, Encarnacion, Ortiz none have set the world on fire there all still young. Me I think Grullon has the best chance to be a stud defensive catcher.Sal has been great pulling rabbits out of hats with the small money kids.

    3. Andrew,

      Really good points.

      Human nature plays a role and many of us are subject to being swayed by what others say, as well.

      I remember being impressed by Lino when he was at Clearwater. Now, not having seen him play for a couple of years, he’s almost fallen off my radar screen, especially after the buzz about Knapp and Alfaro.

      Of course, as has been mention by others here, the system is a lot deeper in talent than before.

  9. T. Schwarz T. Fortugno
    A. Leboeuf S. Deangelis
    S. Sharts R. Parker
    B. Moore H. Nichols
    T. Brown G Edge
    S. Service H. Brumfield
    C. Malone G. Legg
    T. Sossamon V. Holyfield
    W. Magee J. Leiva
    J. Kaye R. Roman
    G. Berman C. Calvert
    D. Giesen T. Corcoran
    C McElroy C. Arroyo

    Who are these names?? Found a 1988 Eastern League Reading Team set in my grandson’s baseball cards. I recognize Edge, Service, Legg, and Corcoran. Thank goodness the 2016
    Reading team will have much better prospects.

    1. Chuck McElroy is the name that jumps out at me from this list. He was traded with Bob Scanlan for Mitch Williams. McElroy went on to pitch 12 seasons in the major leauges as a reliever and rack up 8.5 WAR. He was a starter and at 20 was the youngest pitcher on the Reading staff in 1988.

      1. We also have Wendell Magee who was a utility type player for the Phils and Tigers for several years – a total lifetime WAR of 0.0 with more than 1,000 ABS. Scott Service was a pitcher (not to be confused with Scott Servais, the catcher) who had a long (on and off, 12 years) career and produced a lifetime 0.8 WAR. Yup, these guys put the “fun” in fungible!

        1. There is no way that is the Wendell Magee that you are thinking of. He was probably in Reading around 1995, not 1988….

    2. It’s scary how many of these guy I remember. I liked Malone and McElroy. Legg was a fan favorite. The Phillies farm was really, really weak.

  10. Any info on the guy they signed from stanford. Crowder?. Word in the article was that his FB was mid 90’s I guess they won’t know till they see him in the spring.

    I also question thhe Sam Mcwilliams trade. Are Morton, Hellikson and Oberholtzer going to put up more wins than some of the young guys such as Appel? Or is it a matter of fewer possible blowouts? All 3 of those have had some level of success and then fsded the last 2 years. Having a few seasoned veterens around is good and important, but not at tge expense of losing a descent talent. You never know which ‘descent talent’ will put it together. I’d think they could have signed a free agent of this caliber without giving up a prospect.

    They have Nola, valazquez and the other rookie plus Asher and others. I guess things will work out.

  11. I do not think they plan on VV being in the rotation to start the year. They got those guys to eat innings, and, if lucky, flip at the trade deadline. Oberholtzer is in a different category than Hellickson and Morton. He should make the 5th spot over Morgan because he has no options left. There is no present plan for Appel to do anything but hone his craft in the minors. I know we hate to see any prospects go, this is Phuture Phillies after all, but in all honesty, where would McWilliams have been slotted? Certainly not in the Top 10.

    1. No, not in the top ten. But if I remember correctly he had committed to NC State (or somewhere) and was drafted after slot and bought out from his college committment. He’s 6’7, throws hard for being 18/19 and walked less than 2/9 innings if I remember.

      Like I say, I just wonder if they couldn’t have signed a free agent like a Harang, simply because you NEVER know which prospects will develop.

      I would have thought that he’d be in the mix begining at round 15 or so. Maybe not? Was he even on the list of votees before being traded?

      That issue aside. I’m also wondering about Crowder, the football player/signee from Califirnia winter league.

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