Phillies 40-Man Roster Moves as Deadline Approaches

With the deadline to protect players from the rule 5 draft approaching, the Phillies have added 3 players to their 40-man roster – Roman Quinn, Jimmy Cordero, and Edubray Ramos.  They have also claimed Twins RHP A.J. Achter off waivers.

The Phillies 40-man roster level stands at 37 going into the rule 5 draft barring any further moves before tonight’s 11:59PM deadline.

90 thoughts on “Phillies 40-Man Roster Moves as Deadline Approaches

    1. Among their Top 30 – Alberto Tirado (#14) and Carlos Tocci (#20). A selecting team will have to burn a roster spot for an entire season. A team might take a chance on Tirado at the back end of their bullpen, but it would be difficult to keep the light-hitting Tocci on an MLB roster.

  1. I hate that they left Tirado unprotected. He is as good as gone. Whether he sticks is another question, but a team will definitely pick him.

        1. There still is approx. 8 hours left before the deadline for the decision to be made.
          If MacPhail/Klentak only one to select one player in the Rule 5 at 1.1, then they still can protect two more players….they need to leave one vacant spot open for the draft. However, if they want to select 2 or 3 in the draft…then they need 2 or 3 vacant spots open, respectively.
          Perhaps they are gambling that A players like Tocci and Tirado will not last a year on a big club. But clubs have become pretty creative at ‘stashing’ players they want to keep in their system with a few sporadic IRs thru the season.

  2. I’m still hoping Tirado and Tocci are not eligible for the Rule 5. Leaving Tirado unprotected makes absolutely no sense if he is eligible.

  3. Here’s a question I wanted to talk about. Who do you guys think might get selected from the Phillies? (excluding Tirado and Tocci).

    I would be surprised if one or both of Lino and Logan Moore weren’t selected. They could easily stick as backup catchers all year.

    1. I would be stunned if Lino or Moore were chosen. I wasn’t aware that Tocci had to be protected so I’m not sure if that’s right. Tirado same thing. Either could be selected if they’re eligible. Three spots left: another starting pitcher, a veteran OF, and a Rule 5 selection will all need spots.

  4. Here’s the thing on Tocci. Even if you believe that he will be a productive MLB player, there is no way you can believe he is close to ready now. He got dominated at A ball, although at 19 yo. So a team that selects him must take the position that we are going to only play with 24 players this year. Possible, but I don’t think likely.

    1. Dominated at A ball at 19? Are you sure you are talking about Tocci? between Lakewood and Clearwater he hit .287/.339/.363 while playing above average and what is said to already be MLB caliber defense. That is FAR FAR FAR from being “dominated”.

      1. He said that he got dominated not that he dominated. I had to re read his comment bc I made the same mistake as you.

      1. No he said Dominated.

        He was young for the level and for his age to the level he didn’t exactly get dominated, he actually held his own however so much is predicated on his strength which has also improved every year. I don’t think that he’s MLB ready, don’t think anyone would say that (well he’s defensively ready) . . . I don’t want to lose someone who has the ceiling of a first division regular. He is much like Inciarte, size and all. I just disagree that he was dominated last year and am praying that he has the chance to repeat clearwater next year to see him continue to improve, isn’t that all you can ask for out of a prospect? Improvement, which he has done since day one.

        1. Guys, we can objectively disagree on Tocci’s future. That is a reasonable debate.

          But it is silly to argue that he “held is own” at Clearwater. He had a sub .300 OB% (with a .308 BABIP), a 0.055 ISO, a k rate that was 4.4x his walk rate, and was caught stealing on 75% of his attempts. That is not holding your own. that is by far below replacement level production. I get that he was 19 when he joined Clearwater (and turned 20 there). But that doesn’t change his production..and again..

          ..my only point was simply that he is no where near ready for MLB. He might turn out to be a productive MLB player, but he is not ready. So drafting him in the Rule 5, means that you are playing with 24 players that season in the majors.

  5. Can someone explain why we pick up a RH pitcher who throws about 90 mph and not protect either Tirado, Tocci, Moore or Lino? This pickup of Actcher is a puzzling.

    1. I find it strange and a bit of a drift back toward the bad old Phillies ways. Archer seems like the sort of fungible AAAA reliever who can be signed by the bushel full to minor league contracts with a ST invitation. Tirado was a guy whom the Phillies seemed to think they could convert to a starting pitcher. He has rare FB velocity.

    2. philabaltfan…FWIW…. Tocci and Tirado, are expected to be placed on the Phillies’ Triple-A roster, which means they are still eligible to be selected and still have to remain on a team’s 25-man roster thru 2016. But I believe they are not eligible for the minor league portion of the Rule 5. So stashing them makes it harder. Tirado could be buried in a bullpen for a non-contending team, so he could be the one that may go.

    3. Achter’s K/9 is 9.4 over his minor league career and in 11 IP in the Majors last year, he had a 9.4 too. His BB/9 in the minors is 3. His HR/9 in .8 in the minors. Looks like a guy who keeps the ball in the park who can strike guys out. That seems very valuable. We really have no idea of Klentak’s process for picking up small pieces to make the club incrementally better. Until we see a pattern or a process, we have to trust the guy knows what he’s doing.

      As Jim pointed out, it’s questionable whether Tirado needs to protected. I think it was Romas, who provided a link yesterday or the day before. On the link is had guys eligible for 40 man roster consideration. There was a number in parentheses which had a 2. I wondered what that was but I added up every other teams list of names and matched it to the number in their parentheses. The Phillies had a 2 but 3 names were listed. That added to the confusion.

        1. bellman1…lol….twas I….but contacted Jon Mayo and he had must have just made a mistake and corrected it to 3 across the board.

  6. ‘The Phillies have 37 players on their 40-man roster. They have 40 Minor League players eligible to be selected in the Rule 5, including Tocci, Tirado, Miguel Alfredo Gonzalez, Tommy Joseph, Gabriel Lino, Cameron Perkins and Brock Stassi.’
    Todd Zolecki

  7. Alberto Tirado is 20, and has one season of High A. Its gotta be 100-1 against the team losing him, especially in light that he would need to spend a full season in The Bigs.

    1. Maybe. But in December 2009, the Phillies selected David Herndon, who was left off the Arkansas Travelers (AA, Texas League) restricted list, in the minor league portion of the Rule 5 Draft. Herndon went on to break camp with the Phillies and spent the entire season on their 2010 roster – 4.30 in 47 appearances (52.1 IP) and 3.32 in 45 appearances (57 innings) in 2011 before being selected by Toronto off waivers in October 2012 after spending 5 months on the DL.

      1. The one difference between Herndon and Tirado, would be age and minor league experience. Tirado would be two years younger then Herndon…21 vs 23.

      2. The biggest difference here is that Tirado is crazy wild. He’ll get selected, but I think there’s almost no way he’ll be able to stick on a roster for the whole year. If he’s that wild, you’ll be playing with a 24 man roster and there’s no way that will happen.

        1. Somehow I expect Tirado to spend a good deal of the upcoming season on some MLB teams’ (not the Phillies) Disabled list.

    2. I understand your point, he is not ready. however relievers can be hidden on a poor mlb roster. every team needs a long man or a mop up reliever.

  8. Maybe you guys can enlighten me on some of these 40 man guys. Obviously there is some reason that they think they can save Tirado vs adding Achter . But what about;

    Sev Gonz – Does anyone think he can make it? Not saying I don’t think he can I just don’t know?

    Matt Harrison – Whats the deal there. I guess they can’t take him off the 40 man for some reason?

    Colton Murray – Does he have a chance to stick?

    Joely Rodriguez – ?

    1. Sev is just a depth guy at this point, which I hope that the Phillies do no have to call up.

      Harrison is a different case since he’s not healthy. I believe there are rules against cutting guys on the DL.

      Murray has a small chance to stick.

      Joely is still young enough to be a lotto ticket.

      1. Agreed. In addition to being contractually bound to Harrison due to his MLB contract during his injury, they have some hope that he can return when healthy and be productive.

        When I look at their roster, I think that once the final 3 spots are filled, Gonzalez and even Biddle would be possible DFAs if they pick up some more/better starting pitching options.

        1. @jim – not saying that SevGon is that good but given the lack of depth in AAA SPs that can be called up in April to June if needed (I only see Buchanan, Asher and SevGon as possibilities) – does it make sense to DFA SevGon over Neris or Murray? Phils have depth in RH relief. Can the Phils just put Biddle in 60-day DL than DFA’d?

  9. There is still time to make more moves. Houston is still adding and subtracting from their roster. Maybe they’re saving roster spots in anticipation of trades.

  10. It is absolutely mind blowing to me that they would add Archer and protect Joely Rodriguez and Severing Gonzalez while exposing Tirado and Tocci. The way the Braves are collecting prospects, I wouldn’t put It past them to pick Tocci and go with a 24 man roster next season. They’ll be tanking next season anyway.

    1. Hey Mike, I think what has already been said is correct. I think there is less then 1% that Tocci would get picked or stay on a roster. What would he do for a whole season? It would set his progress back a year at least….just does not make sense on so many levels.

      Tirado on the other hand could pitch and get his innings in like Herndon did for the Phils a few years back. He is the one that I’m hoping the Phils do something for in the next 20 minutes.

    2. I wouldn’t put it past the Braves to do that. I don’t know what those guys are doing. Just last year, they gave Markakis 4 years and tried to give Heyward the money. Now, they’re trading everybody with a new stadium on the way. I don’t mind, makes it easier for the Phillies to beat them in the near future.

  11. There is some confusion regarding Tirado’s eligibility for the Rule 5 Draft. According to Rule 5, a player is exposed to the draft at the 4th or 5th Rule 5 Selection Meeting following his signing date depending on his age on the previous June 5th (18 or younger – 5th; 19 or older – 4th). The qualifier is –

    Rule 5 (c) (1) (C) “if the signing date of a player’s first Major or Minor League contract is
    between
    (i) the conclusion of the championship season for the Major or Minor League Club to which the player is assigned on such contract and
    (ii) the next Rule 5 Selection Meeting,
    then the player shall be deemed to have signed after the next Rule 5
    Selection Meeting, for purposes of this Rule 5(c)(1).”

    In a March, 2012 article, Bill Badler indicates that Tirado signed the previous July; however the Blue Jays transaction page states that he was signed on August 30, 2011, a week after the GCL season ended.

    An August 30th signing date, when he was 17, would render Tirado ineligible for the 2015 Rule 5 Selection Meeting, since he would be deemed to have signed after the 2011 meeting. It all comes down to his actual signing date.

    1. I hope this is correct. Otherwise, Klentak would appear to have made a fairly sizable miscalculation in leaving Tirado expose while some incredibly marginal talents fill the 40 man roster. I mean really – Jeanmar Gomez, Dan Otero?

      1. I think the Phillies presume Gomez will be particularly useful and necessary as a multi-inning arm next season. They’re going to need to stretch out what is likely to be a large number of 4-6 inning starts from our rotation. In fact, I’d love to see another otherwise uninspiring bullpen signing if he can throw multiple innings. My how Kendrick was effective in that role back in 2011. Just sayin

        As far as Tocci is concerned, he has zero chance of being drafted. Zero. Tirado may have a sliver of a chance but it is ridiculously remote. A few years ago, under a prior iteration of the Rule V draft, these guys aren’t even vulnerable until 2016. The pool of exposed players is absolutely saturated with the likes of Tocci and Tirado though. Teams make the mistake of protecting less projection-able players at lower ranks instead of more projection-ables who can more reasonably be carried on the active roster for 6 months. Phillies will get a nice pick in the 1st rd of the draft next month. A few months later, Tocci and Tirado will report to Clearwater for ST

        1. No offense, but guys like Jeanmar Gomez are a dime a dozen. I don’t CARE how well the team does this year. What I care about are pieces of a future contending team – if you lose a long term piece because you are cobbling together a middling bullpen this year, that’s a strategic mistake and a potentially big one.

      2. I think Klentak is doing the correct maneuver. Just as the D-Backs did with Inciarte in 2012, placing him on the triple A roster before the Rule 5, even though he never played higher then A ball, and the Phillies when they selected him had to keep him the whole year…..if Inciarte had been placed on an A roster the Phillies or for that matter any team, could have grabbed him in the minor league phase of the Rule 5 and sent him to their AA affiliate for the 2013 season and remain in the organization.
        The only teams that I would see selecting Tirado, that could afford to stash him, would probably be non-contending teams ie Reds, Braves, Brewers, Marlins, As, etc
        Sure it is a gamble putting him out there,but it is not like the Phillies are the only ones with a Tirado like talent that could be lost.
        .

        1. Just for point of reference, in 2014, there were 14 total players drafted in the major league portion of the Rule 5 draft. The Phillies drafted two of those players, Herrera in the first rd, and Oliver in the 2nd. They were also the only team to draft two players.

          In 2013, only 9 total players were drafted, preceded by 15 players in 2012 and 12 in 2011. Fairly consistent – and in this context, does anyone really feel that Tocci or Tirado are at any measurable risk? I don’t. There will certainly be 15 more capable players exposed than Tocci or Tirado.

          Romus – I’m admitted not as familiar with the minor league portion. Are you saying they are exposed if not promoted prior to the Rule V?

          1. The minor league phase has smaller monetary amounts attached to selections.
            Here is something from BA:
            “In the Triple-A phase of the Rule 5 draft, teams may select any eligible player left off the major league 40-man roster or the Triple-A reserve roster of 38 players. In the Double-A phase of the draft, teams may select any eligible player left off the major league roster, the Triple-A reserve roster or the Double-A reserve roster of 37 players. In other words, a player selected in the Triple-A phase does not rank among his organization’s top 78 talents, and a Double-A selection does not rank among its top 115. In these cases, players are not required to remain on a particular roster. The player’s contract is irrevocably assigned to the drafting team and the drafting fee ($12,000 for Triple-A, $4,000 for Double-A) is paid.
            While you will see a few useful prospects selected every year in the major league phase of the Rule 5 draft, the pickings in the Triple-A and Double-A phases are much slimmer”
            Both Tocci and Tirado are now on the ‘Triple -A reserve’.

            1. With that in mind…the Marlins have been one of the few teams with success in minor league phase of Rule 5 selections….Bour and Alex de Ava (sp)

          2. @steve “…. There will certainly be 15 more capable players exposed than Tocci or Tirado…”

            Jonathan Mayo already has a post up, saying Tirado is one of the 10 best players available.

            1. Who’s word your going to take VOR? Mine, or JMayo? Wait . . don’t answer that. The one team who concerns me is actually the Blue Jays, as they are most intimately familiar and may be eager to reunite with Tirado. I like Jon Mayo, but I still think Tirado is with the team next season

  12. Of the players I’ve noticed were available I think I like Teoscar Hernandez of Houston and Louis Perdermo of the Cardinals the most. An OF with speed and power or a Starting Pitcher with 2 potential Plus pitches.

    1. Teoscar might be able to fit on next year’s roster. I can see us using our 2nd rd selection to risk $25k at getting a closer look in ST. For our first rounder, I think one of the arms would be targeted. I like Perdermo, I really like Zack Jones. Really like Guduan. Big arms there struggling to find consistent secondaries. Leaning Zack Jones at the moment but waiting to hear what the pros have to say

      1. I like all of those arms too, but I think I’d like to see them select Perdomo because he has TWO plus pitches (fastball and slider) and some control. That gives him a chance to be a starter at some point. The other guys are throwing 100, but with no control, so that may limit them them to relief. I’d like to think the Phillies would shoot for a player with more ceiling than Relief pitcher, with the 1st pick.

        1. Same thought VOR. But no one else has really jumped out at me. If they could hit on a back-end type, possibly a successor to Giles, it would be a coup. Big ask I know.

          On Giles, I expect nothing to happen this year but that the chatter will re-emerge next July. If he puts up a 1st half similar to his first two seasons he will be very highly coveted. Even more so than this off-season

  13. After reading what Matt Winks wrote about Tiraldo this summer, I would be devastated if we lost him (stating that IF he can harness his talent, this trade could be monumentally lopsided….or words to that effect). However, keep in mind that the Phillies prospects do not exist in a vacuum. Several other teams have premier prospects exposed.. see StL and HOU. There is a limit to teams that want to play with 24 players. Besides, I believe that if you lose a player, you get to add a player to your protected list…Can anyone confirm this?

  14. Unless I missed it, the Astros did not add Reymon Gudean, I think I spelled that right, to the 40. He is a good candidate for the Phils to pick.

    1. matt13…correct. If you go by what matt Klentak says..he wants ‘pitching , pitching , pitching’, and I assume he is leaning lefthanded, the following 7 seem to be the highest rated available:
      Frank Lopez-Texas
      Jason Wheeler, -Minn
      Chris Reed, -Miami
      Miguel Del Pozo, -Miami
      Sam Selman, -KC
      Reymin Guduan-Houston
      Josh Turley, -Detroit

  15. As much as we’re crying about the Phillies not protecting Carlos Tocci, the Mets fans are doing the same thing with Wuilmer Becerra.

    1. Becerra would be a nice pick up if he were able to stay in Philly for the entire year. We would also enjoy the added bonus of taking talent from a division rival. Tyler Goeddel from Tampa Bay is a more advanced OF we may have interest in drafting next month as well.

  16. Hi Jim, have not read every post but did read yours, so at this point is Tirado exposed to the MLB rule 5? Most everything else I have read including the Phils Todd Z post seems he is.

      1. The article Mayo posted yesterday stated the deadline was 11:59PM for most of the day. Sometime before 8:00PM he changed it to 8:00PM. Not a big deal, but it has made me careful of quoting him as gospel.

    1. If the signing date on MLB’s transaction page is correct, then Tirado was signed after the 2011 GCL season ended and would be considered to have signed after the December 2011 Selection Meeting. In that case he is not eligible until next year. However, I also found an article by Ben Badler (Baseball America) dated March 25, 2012 that states that Tirado signed the previous July ( http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/international-affairs/2012/2613165.html , fourth paragraph from the bottom).

  17. Looks like tis is current Rule 5 draft order:
    1.Phillies…2.Cinn…3.Atl…4.Milw…5.Miami…6.San Diego
    7.Detroit…8.CWS…9.Minn…10.Wash…11.LAA…12.Texas
    13.NYMets…14.LAD…15.Toronto…16.ChiCubs…17.Pitt…18.St. Louis
    12 teams electing not to participate.

    1. Why would teams simple opt-out of the draft? I can’t understand the theory behind that. Sure, maybe the won’t draft anyone, but why limit their possibilities?

      1. Why…..not sure other then the fact, teams that select normally lose players also. Also, if you fill your 40 without a vacant spot by the deadline…20 Nov, I saw it somewhere, .you are not eligible for this draft, I think I saw it either on the MLB site or BA. So you have to have 39 or less protected.
        And it is not just contending team with stacked farm systems who are not in it….7 teams above where in the playoffs last season or in the running (Wash) in September.
        Agree limits your possibilities for talent acquisition.

  18. Dwight Smith and Luis Perdomo look very appealing, as well as Guduan. So, the Phils, at the very least, pick 1 and 18? Assuming every team picks someone. Or do they swap places with Cinci in the 2D Round?

    1. mattt13…1.1 and 2.1 (19)……not sure they need to swap with Cincy. The more I think about it…Tirado will be selected, if not in the top 14, then by the Blue Jays at 15. Disappoints in a way if that is the case….Revere nets Cordero..

      1. I think the Blue Jays are a risk Romus, but they also may not want to waste a roster spot on what is likely to be another playoff run. I’m still confident Tirado will NOT be selected.

        1. Stave…you make a good point.
          That could be one reason for them to shy away from picking him….or picking him then offering him back at some point. Jon Mayo list four RHPs among his tip ten list. I will be interested in seeing who BA lists this week…their list is more extensive.
          And since he has not pitched above A level it would be difficult for most teams to carry him in their bullpen.

  19. Does anyone know where we can see the Minor League Rosters? I’m less curious about who’s been protected; but more interested in where players are being assigned. I’m not ever sure if these minor league rosters are released–I don’t recall seeing them in previous years. Cheers!

    1. LHV has a real short roster. Most of their players will be attending major league spring training. The way I understand it, 40-man roster players will be optioned to their minor league team out pf ST. Some could be outrighted (e.g., Aumont last year). NRIs will be DFA and then assigned to their minor league teams.

  20. These rosters are old, there are about 30 players on the current AAA roster so that they can’t be drafted in the AAA minor league draft.

    1. that’s what I’m trying to find out, Wayne. Any idea where to find this information?

      For instance, I think Stassi has to be on the AAA roster; otherwise, he’d be eligible for the AAA draft.

      1. fritz…….is this in reference to the Rule 5 drafting process….the minor league ‘reserve’ rosters are internally updated with the league for the Rule 5 draft…these are not the ;active’ rosters for 2016….they will not be out until March/April timeframe……when the groupings come out in March then you can guess who is going where.

        1. good insight. thanks for the clarification.

          According to this article on BA, our AAA roster now stands at 38, and AA at 37; which seems very high.

          In the Triple-A phase of the Rule 5 draft, teams may select any eligible player left off the major league 40-man roster or the Triple-A reserve roster of 38 players. In the Double-A phase of the draft, teams may select any eligible player left off the major league roster, the Triple-A reserve roster or the Double-A reserve roster of 37 players. In other words, a player selected in the Triple-A phase does not rank among his organization’s top 78 talents, and a Double-A selection does not rank among its top 115.

          http://www.baseballamerica.com/minors/ask-ba-2/

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