Phillies Outright Four, Including Brown

Todd Zolecki reported in a news release that the Phillies outrighted Domonic Brown, Tommy Joseph, Brian Bogusevic, and Kelly Dugan from their 40-Man Roster.

I don’t think any of these moves is surprising.  Brown’s inability to live up to expectations, Joseph’s concussion issues and recent position change, Bogusevic’s journeyman status, and Dugan’s inability to stay healthy led most of us to expect these moves.

The 40-Man is now down to 30 players plus up to 6 players still on the 60-Day DL – Elvis Araujo, Matt Harrison, Mario Hollands, Cesar Hernandez, and future former Phillies Cliff Lee and Chad Billingsley.

53 thoughts on “Phillies Outright Four, Including Brown

  1. Brown’s been frustrating and is VERY likely a lost cause at this point. Still, I don’t see the point of this with next season being another developmental year. Who with more upside will keep LF warm until Williams is ready? Asche? Sweeney? Ruf? I’m kind of meh about the move, but there’s always that hint with Brown that something could come together, and I’d hate to see it happen for another team.

    1. They will sign some under the wire free agents, most to minor league contracts. The org just needed to move on from brown. We might see 1 or 2 of the others back in the Phils minors, but obviously the Phils did not think any were going to challenge for a roster spot in MLB.

    2. I agree. It would be hard to see brown break out for another team. I’m not upset with the move. I just really don’t see the point of them just out righting him. In reality Philly will probably just use his 40 man roster spot on someone similar to him anyway. If they do something different I’m all for that but I don’t see that happening.

      1. The point is that he would probably make close to 3M next year in arbitration. He has bene one of the least productive OF in baseball for 2 years and he WILL be replaced by someone similar as you suggest Chad, but they will save 2M+ in the process.

    3. The problems with Brown are hardly limited to his inability to hit big league pitching. Funny how the Phillies could have gotten a fortune for him five years ago. I know D’arnaud would look pretty good right about now

      btw, The Dodgers claimed LisAlverto Bonilla off waivers today

  2. Upton in left, Heyward in right, Altherr in center and Herrera 2base. Price as the ace would look really good.

  3. This may not be popular but they probably will not sign any high priced free agents until they feel they have developed a good young core. Hopefully by the end of next year they will have 4-5 MLB starting position players (Franco, Herrera, Williams, ?, ?); 2-3 SP (Nola, Eichoff, ?), and 3-4 relievers (Giles, ?, ?, ?). Once they Identify the core they will probably break out the wallets then.

    1. I agree they don’t sign anybody huge, although between this year and next year’s free agent class, Heyward is the prize. I would love to see a 7-year, $220M deal with an opt-out after 4. That would put him at 30. And we would have him for 2018 and 2019 at the least. We should be competing by then… A guy can dream, right?

      I pass on those Upton boys. They reach their peak at 25 and start to decline. Not worth it.

      1. While I like Heyward, he’s so underachieved for being the #1 minor league prospect. He’s a 15 homer/280 guy with great defense. I know he batted 4th for the Cards this year but in a normal situation he’s a #2 or #6 hitter. Is he really worth all the money he’s going to get?

        1. Agree. Stay far away from Heyward. The Phillies need to thoroughly explore all of their internal options before diving into the FA market. Right now Herrera and Altherr are in the bigs and Williams is very close. There’s a chance Altherr could give you close to what Heyward will and it would come at a fraction of the cost

          1. They need to evaluate Heyward on his own merits and determine if they think he’s worth the kind of contract he’ll get. He would fit in very well with the timeline of this rebuild.

            If they think he’s a perennial all-star candidate, then to not try and sign him because of the prospects they have in the minors would be incredibly foolish.

            1. I don’t know whether he’ll ever be a perennial all star but it doesn’t look like it so far. What I know is that he “looks” like he should be a star but the results are that of an good player. Don’t get me wrong, I think he’s a good player and I think he could help the team. Its just at what cost and with what expectations.

          2. The guy has shown 4 out of the 5 tools you want to see from a major leaguer. Maybe they haven’t all shown up at the same time in a particular year, but he always brings defense, a good arm, good speed on the bases, a solid average and the ability to get on base at a .350+ clip. He has the ability to hit 20+ homers and maybe as he enters his prime, he rediscovers that.

            Altherr scares me due to his very low obp in the minors, but I’m ok with him starting in left next year. Let nick Williams force the issue before we crown him an everyday mlb player. What if Altherr struggles and Williams is overmatched in triple-A? Looks like a lot more Ruf and Francoeur in the outfield. That does nothing for the future.

            Like I said before, there’s nobody in the free agent market this year that interests me other than Heyward. Next year’s class? Even worse. I really believe we could make some noise starting in 2017, but only if we have the right pieces. Heyward is one of the right pieces.

        2. Heyward makes zero sense. The so-called ‘experts’ who are clamoring for his signing will end up eating their words. And don’t get me wrong, I love Heyward. It’s about time a player’s contributions on defense were realized in some form of metric. Regardless, we don’t know where our roster holes are yet, and Heyward is about to get overpaid.

  4. So without Lee and Billingsly, they now have 34 players on the roster. They’ll also likely drop Harang and Buchanan to drop the roster to 32.

    With 8 spots available they have to decide who to protect from:

    3.G Lino
    5.Y Rios
    6.L Moore

    I think they protect all except Perkins and Stassi.

    1. Why would they protect Lino and Moore? Honestly, catchers like them are a dime a dozen. It wouldn’t surprise me if they let Lino go and signed a veteran like Kratz to work with Knapp and to be the next guy called up in the event of an injury to Rupp or Chooch.

      1. I disagree that toolsy 22 year old catchers in AAA are a dime a dozen. I don’t see the reasoning for letting a player like that go just to sign a guy who’s on the edge of retirement. Lino may be a long shot to be more than a backup but he’s not somebody they should ditch for no reason and it looks like there will be room for him on the 40-man.

        Moore is a little different because he’s a few years older and his improved hitting in AAA wasn’t a big enough sample for me to buy in. I could see them leaving him unprotected but it wouldn’t surprise me if he pops up as a major league backup some day.

        1. Remember that just because they get removed from the 40 man doesn’t mean they have to go away. However, if I was Lino, I’d want to start somewhere in AAA and Knapp will start for LHV. The emphasis on back up catchers is always defense. If the team thinks that Lino has progressed enough to be the legit 3rd catcher, stored at AAA, then they’ll keep him. I think a veteran would serve better in that role, knowing that Knapp and Alfaro are hopefully coming quickly soon after.
          Also to remember, all the bosses who made the prior drafts and trades are gone so there won’t be any loyalty, other than to this year’s draft.

      2. Why would you give up guys like Lino or Moore for Eric Kratz? He’s 35 years old. Eric Kratz was a nice back-up player a few years ago, but he is the definition of a “dime a dozen”. Moore and Lino aren’t big names, but they have time on their side. Theyre not good defensive Catchers, who have some plate discipline, and in the case of Lino, very young.

  5. What are everyone’s thoughts on the rule 5 draft? Me personally I would like to see Philly try to get 2 players. A pitcher and a position player. I mean Philly is gonna stink it up next year so why not try to steal some young talent from other organizations. Thoughts?

    1. The chances of them striking gold on two rule 5 draft players are remote.
      I even think that they were lucky ,or good, in getting Herrera this year,because hits in this draft are rare.
      It’s just my opinion, but I think that they’ll trade Herrera or Quinn on down the line because they are two players playing the same position with the same skills.

      1. Victorino and Herrera are examples of striking gold 2 times.

        If you assume Quinn puts up similar numbers to Herrera, his speed makes him a much better player than odubel. They are no longer similar if Quinn comes up and hits like odubel.

    2. I agree with you, I think they could draft two guys since they have the first pick. A pitcher and an OF are definitely possible. It doesn’t mean they’ll make the squad in spring training but its certainly worth the shot.

    3. You forget that the Phillies also selected Andy Oliver with Odubel Herrera this past season. Oliver didn’t work out, Herrera did.

      1. If the Phils signed Ben Zobrist in free agency, his versatility helps overcome the short bench that would result from 2 Rule 5 signings.

        1. If the Phillies sign Zobrist, they would have to surrender their 2nd round (#40 overall) pick, I believe.

          1. No they won’t. The Royals acquired Zobrist by trade midseason, so they can’t extend him a qualifying offer.

            1. The way I understand it, is the Royals can’t get a compensation pick if they lose him, but he is still a class A free-agent that requires the signing team to forfeit a draft choice. I’m probably wrong, but that’s what I thought.

            2. The Class A/B designations were eliminated under the new CBA. Teams only get draft pick compensation now if they’ve made a qualifying offer to the player, and the player declines. And a qualifying offer can only be made if the player has been on the team for the entire season.

            3. Sorry, to finish the thought — teams only forfeit a draft pick if they are signing a player who has been offered a qualifying offer. The draft pick compensation is different now too. If you lose your first round pick, the other team doesn’t get the lost pick, but instead gets a pick in teh sandwich round. If it was a top 10 drafting team that is instead losing a second round pick, the other team gets a compensation pick in the sandwich round between 2 and 3…

  6. They will not sign Upton or Heyward. The nine players you picked are the 9 out of the 29 players eligible to be drafted who are good enough to be put on the 40 man roster. The roster is now at 30 players, Harang along with others are free agents and not on the roster. Lino and Moore should be protected, every team is looking for a good defensive catcher who hits left handed.

  7. There was some debate last month regarding the ability of the Phillies to release Tommy Joseph from the 40 man roster without exposing to waivers for other teams to make a claim. Turns out he could be “outrighted” from to 40man and still remain Phillies’ property.

    From the Daily News: “Joseph, meanwhile, remains under team control; he hasn’t accumulated enough minor league seasons to become a free agent yet.”

    1. @ Anonymous – i think i’m part of that debate since i stated that Joseph cannot be a minor league FA until next year based on my understanding that a team owns rights to a player for 3 more years once eligible for Rule V. A poster said I’m wrong since Joseph will be lost via waivers since he is already on a 40-man roster or something like that.

      My understanding applies for both Joseph and Dugan being for drafted in 2009 as HS kids. Now it’s confused me again since Phils can still own Joseph (for a year) but Dugan will be a FA 5 days after the WS?

    1. I believe he’s still under team control, despite being outrighted. afaik, he couldn’t be claimed.

  8. Tommy Joseph was on “outright waivers” and he was not claimed, so he was outrighted to LHV and he could not become a free agent because he not have enough time in to become a Free Agent. Kratz went through the same process, but he had enough time in and decided to become a free agent.

  9. A story on says the Riversharks are out-of-business. There’s been a few members of the Phils, over the years, that resurrected their careers over there. But that’s not why I mention this little tidbit. In the article they mention the Phillies might be looking to move the Williamsport franchise to Camden. If that happens, I sure hope Rupe and gang come with them.

    Do people feel this is a good idea? Putting all your franchises in one small space like NJ and eastern PA, shores up the fans in that area but Western PA fans are mostly Pirates or Reds or Indian fans. Doesn’t losing Williamsport reduce the Phils stretch a little bit?

    We have quite a few people who post on this board who don’t live in Eastern PA. They are always writing about going to see the Phil’s farm teams in Greenville or Hickory or somewhere close to them. I’m one of those. I don’t go to New Britain games to see NB, I go to see the Reading Phils. I guess I won’t be doing that anymore since they move the NB franchise to downtown Hartford and to pay for parking could get pretty significant. I’m sure ticket prices will go up also plus it will add 20 minutes to the commute to Hartford and back. So that franchise lost my money for 3 or 4 games a year and a lot of my friends feel the same way. Maybe the folks in Hartford or people east of the Connecticut River will pick up attendance but I’m not sure they will. I can tell you that when I went to NB games, they loved their team and boasted Minnesota uniforms and the like. They stayed loyal to the franchise that brought them baseball. Although when Reading was in town there was a lot of Red in those stands.

    1. Seems rumor mill has the NY-Penn League team Williamsport leaning headed for Camden.
      Not sure how true that is…and I guess they would now call the league…NY-Penn-Jersey league?

        1. DMAR….I guess the administrative folk at Campbell Field prefer baseball events for 38 dates a summer (short-season ball) vs approx. 70….and they get April and May open for other events. Not sure why…….I would think they make money on more frequent scheduled events. The Phillies may be dictated matters though, preferring the short season team vs a team like LKW, who are full season.
          If it happens, would be sad for the people upstate PA though…and Bowman Field is historic.

  10. Zobrist is in line for more money than the Phils will be interested in paying for a bench player, and there is really no need for him. He would have been perfect on the 2011 Phils. A contender will sign him. I think they will be active in the Rule V draft and would be even without the success of Doobie. They are in a perfect spot to use roster spots and take a chance. The guys who they dropped from the 40-man Roster will have little to zero impact at the Major League level for anybody, with the exception of maybe DeFratus recovering from his over use and giving a team some BP innings.

    1. De Fratus isn’t ever going to be anything special. He was always destined to be a ‘dime-a-dozen’ middle-reliever. Domonic Brown is the only player they released that has enough talent to make themselves into anything of value. He’ll go to an American League team that doesn’t need to put him in the field, and become the LH part of a DH platoon and probably make something of his career. For the Phillies he just got too expensive for what he could produce for them.

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