Open Discussion: Week of July 13th

Here’s an open discussion thread so the minor league posts don’t get cluttered with Phillies’ talk and other topics.

In honor of the All Star break, and just for fun, here are the records (by winning percentage) of every team in the organization.

  1. GCL Phillies                                   14-4     .778   (1st place in NW)
  2. Williamsport Crosscutters      17-5     .773   (1st place in Pinckney Division)
  3. Clearwater Threshers               50-38   .568   (1st place in North Division)
  4. DSL Phillies                                   21-16   .568   (4.0 GB in 2nd place in SD North)
  5. Reading Fightin’ Phils              48-42   .533   (1.5 GB in 2nd place in Eastern Division)
  6. Lakewood BlueClaws               43-43   .500   (3.0 GB in 2nd place in Northern Division)
  7. Lehigh Valley IronPigs              40-51   .440   (9.0 GB in 4th place in North Division)
  8. VSL Phillies                                    20-28   .417   (11.0 GB in 4th place (of 4))
  9. Philadelphia Phillies                 29-62   .319   (21.0 GB in 5th place in NL East)

The major league Phillies have opened up a 9.5 game lead over Milwaukee and 10.0 game lead over Miami in the race for the #1 pick.

On Sunday, J.P. Crawford started at shortstop and batted second in the Futures Game.  When they weren’t blathering on about other stuff, the announcers actually had some nice comments about Crawford.  But they also droned on about some other topic during J.P.’s third at bat until he struck out.  Crawford played very well defensively.  By my count, he had 3 assists, 2 put outs, and started 2 double plays.  Offensively, he went 1-3 with a single in his second at bat.  It was a nice, defensive swing while behind in the count, and he poked the ball through the middle into center field.  He drove in his team’s first run to tie the game.  He scored on a double by Kyle Schwarber later in the inning.  They went on to win 10-1.  Aaron Nola did not play.


97 thoughts on “Open Discussion: Week of July 13th

    1. It’s a shame they don’t have another column showing how cheap the no-names were. Otherwise you have to click on the name to get that information.

      Looks like a good starting point for some unbiased research.

  1. I’m hoping that we watched a future Phillie yesterday in the Futures Game, after some major trading occurs. We’ll see….

    1. Also I….maybe Judge and Sanchez from the Yankees. Though Sanchez caught for the World, not sure that will be his final position in the majors.

  2. SS teams a combined 31-9. Incredible. A number of interesting prospects at every level. Probably another 4 or so prospects to enter the system through the deadline. First pick in the V in December and looking like the first pick in the 2016 FYPD next June. It’s about to get even better down on the pharm

  3. In Cincinnati today…..Jonathan Papelbon thinks it’s time for the Phillies front office to “you know what or get off the pot.” ……. used that phrase three times Monday in a near 30-minute meeting with reporters in Cincinnati……”The Phillies have got to make a decision. You’ve got to go one way or the other,” Papelbon said. “You can’t be in limbo and sit here and say, ‘What if we do this or what if we do that?’ You’ve got to make a decision and you’ve got to go with it. I know that we’ve got a new interim president. We’ve got a new interim manager and we’ve got all this change supposedly happening, but I don’t see any of it yet.”

    ..Paps sure knows how to stir the pot…..pressure is on Amaro

    1. Amaro probably does not have the authority to make trades without Gillick and McPhail’s blessing.

        1. That’s correct – Gillick is the de facto GM right now when it comes to trades and major decisions – and that’s a good thing. Amaro is about as lame as a lame duck gets – another good thing.

          1. Has it crossed your mind that Gillick has been the GM all along so don’t let him off the hook so easily.

        2. Amaro had a trade with the Angels with Ben Revere but the Angels pulled out at the last minute according to rumors. Maybe that’s why Jerry DiPoto resigned as GM of the Angels.

  4. I don’t think he is the best guy in the world, but he is right. Get it done already. I am tired of hearing the option is a problem. Pay half, bingo, no problem. One of the top closers around for 6.5 Million. It makes no sense that there is now a 3rd wheel in discussions about everything. The McPhail hiring should have been done before the season started. The worst tem, by 9 games!, in all of baseball with a top closer. This isn’t Hamels where the return can be, hopefully, a huge boost to the farm. Paps, at most, brings a decent prospect. And make the Revere deal already while they are at it.

  5. There’s how long until the deadline? A little over 2 weeks . . . There is ZERO need to rush anything. Look around, take your time, get the best offer available. As long as he is moved for the best package I’m fine w it . . Today tomorrow or July 31st

    1. The Phillies will get their fair share of offers for Papelbon, Hamels, and probably Harang. The best offers will almost certainly come within the last few days before the deadline. The team should be focused on the best prospects period. If the team trades for a bunch of B and C level prospects and the explanation is that the team wanted “near ready” prospects, I’m going to be pissed off. But I think they will be focused more on talent than proximity.

      Someone might make an offer for Howard if the Phillies basically eat almost of his remaining salary. If I were the Phillies, I’d take all of his salary (above the MLB minimum) and the buyout in exchange for a low level minor leaguer or two with promise. It’s time to move on. If Cliff Lee had the surgery he really required when it was wise for him to do that, he’d probably have been off the DL by now. Oh well, he’s gone next year too and it’s good to see salary moving off the books.

      1. Cliff Lee is one rich Arkansas farmer these days.
        May give Tyson Foods a run for his money.

      2. still think the Angels could actually use Howard in a DH platoon.
        Yep, just the little 12.5 million buyout on Cliff’s contract and its all over.

  6. The season has been so unwatchable, that, as a fan, the fun part is coming now with the trade deadline. Following the farm is fun and has provided hope, but, to me, the Major League season has been about the trade deadline and securing the #1 pick in next year’s draft. I had mentioned earlier that, in my humble opinion, eating half of pap’s $ for next year makes him very attractive, and should net a “good” prospect. Not top tier, but a good one. The Pirates and Angels both like Revere, and he is up to .300, or close, and should bring something. There will be a lot of payroll gone after this season, but I don’t see anyone in FA that will attract the Phils interest.

  7. I think the rally to back Cesar Hernandez as the 2B of the future, or even the next 18 months, was a tad bit premature. A wOBA of .291 isn’t exactly instilling much confidence that he’s anything more than a AAA/ AAAA talent.

    1. It was premature, but there’s definitely something there and he’s improved a lot. The on base and baserunning skills have dramatically improved and he’s a line drive machine. We will see, but he deserves his at bats for at least the remainder of the year. In this year of wretched baseball the only unforgiveable sin for the team to commit (other than riding a player so hard that he gets injured) is not trying out younger players because has been older players are manning a position – it’s beyond moronic.

    2. I didn’t hear one person say he was the answer at second What was said is that he was playing well. deserved to play. That most likely he was a stopgap until kingery or someone else comes up. We all know its a small sample, personally I thought he was a very sound fundamental guy , takes a walk. bunts plays the game the right way. but six weeks doesn’t make a career, just like all of those who rip me to death when dom brown was hot. and I said he cant hit. and is not a good player. I was told to leave the site. cause I said if dom brown becomes a good player I would stop posting. Not one of those people especially the person who said I was without honor to keep posting has said anything, That they were premature in there ripping of me. I guess means nothing. ty.

      1. If you didn’t hear that then you simply weren’t listening. Plenty of posts stated that all Cesar needed was the playing time he “deserved” and he was a .300 hitter in the making – ignoring his barely .350 SLG and his average OBP.

        “Sound fundamental guy….bunting… playing the game the right way” just means ‘has no ability and does anything he can to get by’. His stats are rapidly regressing to where they always are. He is what he is – a back-up 2B who can’t play SS b/c of defensive limitations.

        1. Totally disagree in your HAS NO ABILITY cause he play sound fundamental. IMO a good player plays a sound fundamental game and uses that to future his natural ability.

      2. rocco…Cesar is a nice utility guy to have. I am sure they are not thinking he is the long-term solution at 2nd base….they would not have drafted Scott Kingery so high out of a college program.

        1. Romus I am not saying he is the answer. too short of a period. but a guy that can bunt and get on and walk to me isn’t a guy with no ability like rick says. I love that this guy is using what ever talent he has to play a good brand of ball. Will he be a star I don’t think so. but playing the right way. doesn’t mean he has no ability. doesn’t trout play the game the right way?

          1. They also have Herrera whose natural position is 2B.

            Next season they could have Herrera and Cesar battle for the job, put AA in CF, Dugan in one corner, and Asche in the other.

            Cesar is a good player but not the long-term solution.

            1. David… will never see Odubel at 2nd base…unless Cesar, Scott Kingery and who ever else they decide to try there, ie many young Latins like Canelo, Brito, Arauz et al…collectively fail

            2. David if they trade Revere there going to Herrera in the outfield. Plus he must learn how to stay off the outside breaking balls. If there is going to be a lot off movement which the article says there is a lot more players might get moved.the only players are safe are the 10 5 guys and Franco.

          2. rocco……little story on Mike Trout….my buddy was scouting HS players, and this time a Millville basketball game about 6/7 years ago….Mike Trout was on the floor….the only white guy…..he was the fastest, jumped the highest with amazing dunks, and as my buddy said….the ‘ball melted in his hands’. And at the time he was about 6’2: and 200 lbs. He turned to the person next to him, and asked, ‘who the heck is that white guy’……the other guy said forget about him…he is going to play major league baseball.

        2. No, he is not a ‘nice utility guy to have’. He is a lousy utility guy — an IF who can’t play SS or 3B. He does appear to be a decent stopgap starting 2B at the MLB level, at least for the 2nd division team that the Phillies will be.

    1. someone else might have mentioned this but noticed this on a kiley mcdaniels chat:
      Comment From Guest
      Are the Phillies going to go big on international free agents next year?

      Kiley McDaniel: Wouldn’t surprise me, but I’ve already heard strong rumors of 3-4 teams going over next year and they didn’t come up. I would bet that’s up to MacPhail at this point and if he waits much longer to make the call, there won’t be any elite guys left…but there will always be Cubans popping up

  8. I hope the Phillies rotation is a little more improved next season, albeit without Cole will be virtually impossible.
    This season after Cole, then Harang there was Jerome Williams, injured at times, Chad Billingsley. David Buchanan. Sean O’Sullivan. Kevin Correia. Severino Gonzalez. Phillippe Aumont. Dustin McGowan.
    I guess going more with Gonzalez and a healthy Buchanan would have been some future hope.

    1. I’m pessimistic about Gonzalez. Right now, he’s not an effective AAA starter, let along a big league starter and his stuff is borderline (I like Lively much more than Gonzalez). He stays at AAA. I think, next year, you start off with a rotation of Nola (either to start the year or after the requiste waiting period to delay FA), Morgan, Buchanan, Billingsley and another cheap FA. At some point in the year, Eflin, Lively and/or Gonzalez could be promoted. Biddle is a mystery – he’s not someone you can plan for at any level at this point – hopefully that changes, but who knows?

    2. The phillies phture hope is in the minors Nola , Eflin, Kilmore, Leibrandt, Medina, lively etc. The have bring in another couple of arms though the trades. Now that Gillick is running the trades the phillies will be better off.

      1. whoa Tim….slow down a bit…..remember Freddy Garcia…could go down as in the top five worst trades in Phillies history.

    1. rocco…ha.
      Former Phillie skipper was at Llanerch CC on the back nine a week or so ago. Was asked how can he walk away from over $2M. Got tired and frustrated dealing with the ‘aging veterans’ with varied opinions and barriers or what not. Main culprit, apparently CU…Paps also can be difficult at times. The new age baseball players are not ‘old school’ like he was and is.

      1. This is a common theme Romus. I have a friend in the field who says the same thing over and over. Feels he will have a hard time becoming a manager because he won’t relinquish control of the line-up card.

        I just laugh and say if the checks cash who cares. He just looks at me with a puzzled look.

        Most people/fans have not a clue the depth of the BS the manager takes up hill and down hill.

        Just listening to him I’ve reflected to him that the key must be you have 25 guys who are mostly at the same point in their career. You get to much of a 50/50 mix and the club house turns toxic.

        1. Yes……it is a common theme I would think, especially for the older managers/coaches. I understand he did say he lost the clubhouse. The Giles incident and the Francoeur pitching episode I guess were what broke the camel’s back.
          I mean he did make some decisions that seemed questionable to say the least….especially , IMO, when it came to the pitchers.

  9. Phillies claim a Cuban…a pitcher!
    Dalier Hinojosa.
    Ok.. the catch…he is older at 29 and the Red Sox let him go.

    1. rocco……I thought you would be thrilled…..a Cuban in the fold. The rebuild is going good. 🙂

  10. His numbers are good almost a k per 9 low ings too. This is the Philles new plan sign all Cuban retread ‘ s form Other teams.

  11. Not sure if anyone read this article but it is fascinating regarding Phillies ownership. We were wrong for a good portion of this.

    Phillies ownership now consists of four groups. The Middleton family, led by John Middleton, and the Buck family, led by cousins Jim and Pete, own the two largest pieces of the team. David Montgomery and Pat Gillick own small pieces.

    1. What a crock! ““Ownership has been very quiet ever since I bought the team in ’81, so I think it was a good thing.”

      This from the man who tried to be his own GM for several years, meddled fiercely in the whole J. D. Drew mess, and knows full well that the owners ordered salary dumps which hurt the team and refused to allow even middle relievers on expiring contracts to be traded during lost seasons. Is he senile? And Salisbury gives him credit for us getting CBP? Pittsburgh pushed a new stadium, not the Phillies but we had to get matching one if Pirates got theirs, and it was Ed Rendell who made it happen. It was Bill GIles who delayed CBP by wasting time trying to put it in center city as the restaurant owners and Chamber wanted, but none of the other city PTB would except, because he was wearing his non-Phillies Chamber hat at the time. That messed up the Phillies timetable to field a winner.

    2. You guys are missing the point. The real point is the ownership structure that is in place now.

      Apparently the Phillies made some significant changes to the LLP structure possibly cleaning it up.

      I don’t think Gillick’s role as an owner was ever acknowledged before.

  12. Omg What a nut bill giles is quote if Middleton lets his people run the team and stays out. The reason this team is in a mess is Montgomery and giles not spending on latin and Cuban market. There letting draft picks walk because they wouldn’t piss off the commissioner. This article is a joke and so is giles. I really hate him. such a small amount of ownership yet he had such a big say in the team. The way him and Montgomery set up the team so that there little big of stock. still had a big say in all decision.

    1. rocco….the Phillies did spend on the two academies….the one in the DR and the other in Ven….they are fairly large expenses. The Ven, for instance, now only has three other MLB teams running academies in the country.
      Now spending on individual LA talent is another issue. Prior to Tocci in 2011, they were very frugal….two Korean pitchers in 2002 garnered a few million dollars..they failed to produce, and the Phillies got burned, so they withdrew into a shell it seems…….then there was the decade long drought of giving out large bonus offerings until the Tocci signing. And the GM with the Korean pitchers was Ed Wade…and the GM with the Tocci signing was Ruben Amaro.. Pat Gillick was GM from Nov ’05 thru Nov ’08. So three GMs over that period of time where the team became overly frugal in the LA market.

      1. Giles believes it’s important that Middleton let his baseball people run the baseball operations. What a lie. did he let his people do there thing when he traded bowa to Chicago and gave away a hall of famer. cause bowa spoke his mind. I just hate this guy he is a lier.

        1. rocco… are probably correct in one respect…Giles was was hands-on more then you would hope. But there are cases of other owners being that way…..NY Yankees for example….but they won a few along the way….championships.

      2. Korea isn’t Latin America, and it felt at the time as the Phillies weren’t so much burned as they deliberately threw away their $ to make some bizarre point about not being cheap internationally or Takagawa had pictures of some of TPTB. Consider: these are the first guys this scout signs and brings to the states and he gets two of them the same year and they are both more expensive than anyone the Phillies had ever signed in LA, in fact this was about a decade’s worth of LA budget at the time. The Koreans arrive and one Phillies exec comments that when they got off the plane they didn’t look like the guys they had signed. Was this a complete con job? What were the Phillies thinking? You just can’t teach this kind of stupid.

  13. Nola ranked 38 by Keith Law in mid-season poll.
    Thought he would be in the low 20s, but what do I know.

  14. I will kiss Keith laws ass in macy window if his 37th ranked player henry Owens is better than nola. He had 5 boston red sox in top 50

    1. I’m not opposed to this in theory but if you do it, you HAVE to nail it. I can’t imagine it happening on Gillick/Amaro’s watch – just doesn’t sound like something they would do.

      1. You could do something like Jon Hart did with Kimbrel and move salary along with Giles.

        Really all the Braves got in return for the best closer in the game was a net savings of $56 million worth of salary relief and Matt Wisler.

        Not to shabby but that’s for the best closer in baseball. I don’t think as good as Giles is he would command the same type of package or even salary relief.

  15. LAD and Phillies talking Hamels again.
    If Seager or Urias are not available…then better get Holmes, DeLeon ,Verdugo and a 2015 draftee PTBNL. in July 2016.e.g. Mitch Hansen.

    1. It was mentioned on MLB traderumors site, not sure by whom, that Yasil Puig is being shopped by LA or at least they are considering it. What interest would the Phillies have with him?

      1. Well I guess, if you move Paps and bring in Puig in a trade….its a push, as for character essentials.
        Puig may have some character short-comings that could prove to upset the chemistry of a team.

  16. I think Revere is a good speculative player for other teams. His gap power numbers have increased the last 3 years and he’s entering the prime of his career at 28. Remember, he was sold as a cheaper option to Michael Bourne. I still think there’s value there, that the phillies need to capitalize on. A few more walks and doubles and his OPS would be excellent for a leadoff hitter. I believe he’s due for a career year next year. Absolutely trade him, but def maximize value. Need a top 10 prospect in trade return. No scrap. They should throw in $1MM or more if needed.

  17. I can’t find the post. But some are in favor of paying $10MM a year in a trade of Hamels. It’s absurd on a few levels. His contract is below market on years & dollars for a cy young caliber player and the phillies are a big market team with money to spend. Paying Hamels salary would be a joke and be bad business for the phillies in my opinion.

  18. Early exit for Hamels today and a lousy start – trade made or Phillies trying to boost his stock by hoping for a nice rebound in his next start?

    1. David, a true professional would not do what you suggested as he knows he has to pitch well to create a demand for his services. Have to agree with Roccom – how do you dream some of this stuff up?

      1. It is funny that the bad starts coincided with talk that Hamels might stay and the Phillies were content to not trade him.

        You can clearly see that Hamels is not giving 100%.

        These starts are meaningless in terms of trade value. If you are shying away from Hamels because of a handful of starts against the volume of starts in his career you should not be GM.

        You may not like the truth but that is certainly what is happening.

        1. Wow, David what a comment from you. I could say more but I don’t want to get in trouble with the moderators.

          1. Your right phila. I will skip david post. so I don’t get banned. They are so off the wall I will just keep it to my self.

        2. I think this a silly notion, which led to us trading for Freddy Garcia. Pitcher are what they are, until suddenly they aren’t — it might be age, it might be injury, it might be Steve Blass disease, it might be losing a mph or two. Despite the quotes from many Phillies coaches, managers, and GMs, a player doesn’t necessarily return to what it says on the back of his baseball card. Hamels has shown enough in 60% of his starts to suggest that he still has the ability, but his consistency has been way off this year. It could be nothing but nerves, but it could be something. But even if it is nerves, one of the big pluses for Hamels was that he was a big, high pressure, post-season pitcher. Perhaps being on his 4th poor to bad Phillies team, he has lost that tenacity of will that he had when the Phillies were good. Perhaps he will recover it if traded to a team that has a chance at a WC. Perhaps he won’t. If I’m a GM, I want a discount on Hamels.

      2. Hamels and Papelbon are in the same boat but going about it in different ways.

        Papelbon is opening his mouth to the press and playing well.

        Hamels is keeping his mouth shut and pitching poorly.

    2. David….that may be a possibility back in the recesses of his mind…he is human after all.
      Is that affecting his last two starts?
      Sure he wants to be on a contender now, but I would think he would want to showcase himself more.

  19. Ben Revere:
    “We are in a rebuilding stage with a bunch of young guys and we are trying to get prospects and young talent,” Revere said. “I am one that can allow the Phillies to get those candidates.”
    He said he enjoys being with the Phillies, but if he is traded, can see a positive side.
    “Maybe I could go to a team that can contend for a championship and go on a playoff run,” he said.
    …..Ben says it tactfully well….Paps could gauge it that way also.

  20. When Revere goes there goes our base stealing. Now the Phillies need to get speed and power. My friend said ” Nola starts his first game with this infield cooch, Howard, Herandez, Galvis, Franco. By the end of next yr it could be this Hoskins or Martin 2nd Galvis or Kingery ss Crawford and Franco. I Still believe from what I’m hearing that Ultey will be with this team in some sort . The Philies should move Crawford and Hoskins at the speed that they moved Nola . Crawford has that elite feel for baseball as a pitcher and hitter. He could start in AAA next yr. Hoskins could be in Reading Martin and Kingery in clearwater.

  21. Phillies starters just cannot go more then five IP anymore.
    Their bullpen is getting burned out and who is to say how that affects these young arms in the next 2/3 years.
    Justin De Fratus, leads MLB relievers- 51 innings.
    Luis Garcia is at 42IP,
    Jeanmar Gomez is at 44IP
    Ken Giles 42IP
    …. all ranked in the top 30.
    and Jake Diekman is at 34 and he had 7IP at LHV.

    This must be a concern for the Phillies FO.

  22. Romus dodgers seem like they are in on hamels. plus he would go there. Do you think there is value in there prospect after seager and urias. I know you talked about a pitcher whos name escapes me. what would you take for him from dodgers.

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