Box Score Recap – 6/2/2014

Box Score Recap

Brad Lincoln pitched well for Lehigh Valley, allowing three hits and three walks while striking out five in seven scoreless innings. Ken Giles earned the save there with a clean inning, with 1K. Maikel Franco was 1-4 with a 2B. Clearwater was blanked by Bradenton. With Andrew Knapp gone, it’s Quinn and Lino and not much else to get terribly excited about from a prospect point of view.

Speaking of…all it took was a demotion to Lakewood to get Knapp back on track – he’s OPSing 1.267 on the year in four (4) plate appearances at that level. (For those uninitiated, that’s me being funny. Watch for it. Hard to spot at times.) Dylan Cozens was 2-5 with two doubles and Willians Astudillo extended his hitting streak to 17 and walked twice (!!!).

And speaking of…DSL’s Edwin Rodriguez with the Golden Whatever-it-is-when-you-walk-four-times-in-a-game. Golden Ticket, (as in a “free pass”)? Golden Egg, (as in the goose-egg for number of ABs)? Umm…Golden Corral? Golden Earring? Golden, Colorado? Steven Golden? Ok, I got nothin’. Point is he walked four times.

Here’s the affiliate Scoreboard from MiLB. http://www.milb.com/scoreboard/index.jsp?sid=milb&org=143&ymd=20140602

6-2-14 boxscores

88 thoughts on “Box Score Recap – 6/2/2014”

  2. I think Tocci is never going to cut it.. Realize he is young, but little progress this season compared to last.

    Do we have only 2 .300 hitters in the entire minors system??? (Crawford, Ausudillo) yikes. In fact as many <200 hitters amongst "prospects" (Pointer, Rupp.. Quinn is close too) as we do 300 hitters

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    1. Pointer and Rupp are only prospects in the loosest sense of the term. Pointer didn’t even come close to making the Top 30 this year, and while Rupp did, I think he owed his position to fear of hurting his superfan Brad’s feelings. He does this for free, you know. Tread lightly.

      And as I keep saying on Tocci: be patient. Check back in a year or two.

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      1. For Tocci it better be two or less, because once his third year is completed from this point, he becomes Rule 5 eligible.

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        1. So you’re saying there’s potentially a tough roster decision looming in 2017? I mean, by 2017 Crawford will be playing shortstop every day in whatever safely inland location the franchise moves to after Philadelphia is submerged by rising seas.

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        2. Cameron Perkins will be explaining on the MLB Network how a diet consisting entirely of Soylent turned him into a perennial MVP.

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        3. By 2017, Jimmy Rollins will be well into his first term as mayor of Oakland.

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        4. By 2017, Ruben Amaro will … still be general manager of the Phillies

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        5. In 2017, Ryan Howard will be in the final year of his contract, unless the team for some reason I can’t foresee chooses to exercise its $10 million buyout

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        6. And on this date in 2017, Carlos Tocci will still be only 21 years old. So like I said, we have a little time to wait and see what happens before we worry about whether there’s room for him on the 40-man. Unless he has to be protected in 2016. I’m a bit unclear on that (see below).

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          1. And on this date in 2017, he still won’t be a better hitter than Endy Chavez if he doesnt’ fill out a lot, although he should be quite the fielder. I’m still not sold on Tocci, but let’s see what happens.

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      2. The best part about me being in love with Rupp is that if he winds up being a decent, near-league-average starter for 3 years and a career backup, he’ll meet my highest possible expectations. i just didn’t understand why no one saw a big leaguer in there. I was never thinking he was going to break into the league and be a perennial all-star. I think the highest I ever ranked him was 18 or so.

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        1. I agree, I think he could be backup now and I believe your assessment above is correct. I could be patient on Tocci too, in fact it would be nice not to hear about him for two years because it is always the same report……….can’t hit the ball hard, physically underweight and underage. So report when he is physically fit to play, hits the ball hard and is age appropriate.

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    2. I am worried about Tocci as well I think the org really needs to get him on some serious regiments, He needs a serious weight/strength gaining program and I mean like 10,000 calories a day and wrist and forearm exercise until he cannot write his name for fck sake, we already know his baseball instincts are high and he has a good swing he just has nothing behind it and I fear without some major work to his physique he will always be underpowered 4th outfield type. I realize he is young and some people it takes a long time to get some muscles but I knew plenty of high school and young college kids who are absolutely ripped at his age so Im kinda of tired of hearing that he is young and that is an excuse. I dont know the exercise programs set up by the phillies for minor leaguers but that gotta change or if they dont have them they better step into the 21st century and quick

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      1. Not comping him to Galvis, but they gave Galvis some time before adding to his body with a serious off-season weight program. Maybe the same is their plan for Tocci – get his skills and hitting mechanics where they want them before trying to add a bunch of muscle which could alter that process. Don’t know. I don’t think anyone who is (reasonably) high on this guy has any expectation that he’s going to be a home run hitter, rather that he may be able to add enough “power” to not get the bat knocked out of his hands by middle-of-the-road velocity.

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        2. No I dont expect him to ever be Andrew McCutchen, but it seems as though his progress has stalled and he needs to get stronger in order for progress to continue . His swing is sweet and by all accounts he fields his position with grace and speed but he just lacking at the plate maybe a boost in strength and confidence is what he needs to start hitting the ball out of the infield.

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        3. he has the look of a player who will add weight in this late 20’s unless he starts visiting the lab.

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          1. or gets on serious strength program it can be done but it needs to be instilled now to so he becomes accustomed to it. it is not unreasonable that he can exercise a few times a week maybe instead of some outfield practice which he excells at anyway .and i dont want to hear about size and strength . All of he fastest guys are strong . Bolt. Gay. Every other 100 meter champion for 30 years plus. And not all cheated

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    3. I’m in agreement. We’re not 3 years into Tocci’s minor league career still preaching patience and seeing that he’s barely got infield power, let alone gap power. Yes he’s fast and has a good arm and has good instincts which allow him to play above average defense. But potential 4th/5th outfielders shouldn’t be considered prospects, and at the moment that’s his ceiling.

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      1. I just don’t understand the Tocci detractors. Not you personally, but a lot of people out there. He’s 18. What’s so hard about waiting until he’s 20 before you declare what his ceiling is or isn’t? He doesn’t even have to be protected on the 40 man until 2016 I don’t think. Or maybe 2017. (Not sure of the Rule 5 rules exactly, but it says “five years after signing” if the player is under 18, and Tocci signed in August of 2011. Maybe that means he wouldn’t be available for the Rule 5 until after the 2016 season?) At any rate, the bonus money is gone, and is relatively small compared to what a high draft pick would get, so just relax and wait and see.

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        1. If, Roman Quinn is moved to CF, as posters on here have mentioned, he could prove to be an obstacle to Tocci’s advancement.

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          1. Not really sure about that. Quinn is a level higher, and the only reason to move him to CF would be to allow Crawford to play SS at Clearwater. So presumably he would go to Reading next year and Tocci would play at Clearwater. The real competition for playing time in that scenario might be between Quinn and Altherr, since it seems unlikely right now that he’s going to be ready to go to LHV by the beginning of next year, barring a major improvement in the second half.

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        2. I’m not a Tocci detractor, I’m a Tocci skeptic. The issues about his age are well taken. The problem is the projectability (I know, not a word) of his body – he doesn’t look like a guy who is going to fill out into anything resembling a major leaguer. Hopefully, that’s not the case, but until I see him get a lot stronger, I have serious doubts about his future.

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        3. I agree with your premise, especially regarding the bonus money. However he’s 3 years in and shown [almost] no improvement at the plate which according to most talent evaluators is the tool that will prevent him from being and every day player. That is a worrying fact.

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    1. They’re desperate for starters that aren’t org filler types, (no offense to Smith and Enright). Same reason they tried BJ Rosenberg as a starter a couple year ago. If Lincoln figures it out as a starter then that’s a huge win. If not, he gets innings to work on his pitches and maybe comes out of it a better reliever. Same reason you let someone coming up from the lower ranks start even if you think they’re eventually a bullpen arm, except he fills an org need for AAAA starters at the same time.

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  4. time to get Giles in Philly…i know his AAA peripherals are no good, but seriously, how many chances is Aumont going to get? even if you don’t wanna go to Giles yet, there are probably 10 pitchers in the system I’d rather have in the majors than Aumont. I would rather have Knigge or Colton Murray in the majors than that bum, no exaggeration

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    1. I completely agree. What’s the point in re-treading the Aumont path for what feels like the 20th time? Sure, Giles has work to do, that’s a given. However, the season is basically lost and I’d rather we give Giles a shot that he’s earned. It may be a trial by fire, but if it doesn’t work out off the rip then he goes back to Lehigh and fine tunes things. If it does work out then maybe we can start to rebuild our trash barge of a bullpen.

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    2. For me, the next reliever I’m waiting on isn’t Giles, its Ethan Martin. He’s got more experience and he’s pitching better in AAA. Assuming his stuff gets back to where it’s been in the past, we know he’s got an electric arm.

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      1. I agree that Martin is the next logical addition to the pen once his arm strength is completely recovered.

        Calling up Giles means adding him to the 40-man roster and starting his arbitration clock”. No sense in doing that for a last-place team that doesn’t appear to be going anywhere this season.

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        1. well you called it, martin called up, aumont down. for some reason i didnt think of him when i was listing names, but I do like it.

          If you squint really hard, you can see a decent bullpen of Adams, Diekman, Hollands, Giles, Martin in the not to distant future. Although Diekman has been scaring me after a real good start.

          I like Garner as a pen arm too. Of course Ruben will probalby go out and sign a bunch of veterans to 3 year deals this offseason (if he still has a job)

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          1. Don’t forget Defratus, he’s back to himself a minor league tune-up. He’s throwing the ball very well right now. Personally, I’d like to see them trade Adams for something right now while he’s going so good. He can help a good team.

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            1. Agreed. Eat the contract and get back an A Baller with upside. Would you trade, (if you were the Phils and in contention), someone like Andrew Pullin for a guy in Adams’ situation + 80% of his salary? I might. That’s about the kind of guy I would expect in return, give or take.

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  5. My only issue with Tocci is not even with Tocci it is with those that want to say he is a top 10 prospect when he is clearly not.

    Outside of that he is doing just fine and maybe in two years he is finally a top 10 prospect.

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    1. your preaching to the choir here. Been saying this for long time now. He is fringe prospect until proven other wise or until he can drive ball.

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  7. I think this may be the weakest/ lowest point the minor league affiliates have been since this website started. There is little to any talent on any level & w/ Amaro making picks in 2 days, little confidence he brings in badly needed talent – meaning baseball players and not athletes that look good in a uniform!

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    1. Of all the Phillies’ many faults, I don’t think they’ve been horrible at picking talent – not great, but not horrible. Their draft position has hurt them and they’ve reached for far too many “tool shed” athletes without baseball skills in the early rounds, but they’ve come up with some talent. But they’ve traded away a lot of guys, had some critical bad picks, refused to game the system when they had the chance, had more than their fair share of good old fashioned bad luck, may have serious issues in developing talent, and was awful at acquiring young talent from other organizations.

      Whatever the cause, it was Amaro’s job, over a pretty fair period of time, to replace aging, expensive talent, with younger, inexpensive talent and, on this score, on the whole, he’s been an abject, miserable failure of a GM. You when you see a situation and the conclusion that you reach is that the team or organization would have been far better off had the guy done absolutely nothing, you know that the person is a problem and needs to go. In short, not only has he not helped, on the whole, I think he’s been actively detrimental. He’s highly incompetent. He needs to go.

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      1. When I say they have not been horrible at picking talent, I mean the draft. Their scouting of internal talent and talent of other teams has been pretty bad.

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      2. From mlb.com:
        “Forty-six Phillies Draft picks have reached the big leagues over the previous 10 Drafts (2004-13), which ties for seventh-best in baseball. But the quality of those picks ranks last. According to Baseball Reference, the combined WAR (Wins Above Replacement) of Phillies Draft picks over the past 10 years is 20.7, which is a remarkable 24.6 points lower than the 29th ranked Blue Jays (45.3). The Red Sox (142.7), Braves (133.3) and Angels (124.4) are in the top three”.

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        1. Thanks – good info. It’s hard to know if this is a function of bad drafting or bad player development or a little of both. Note that the stats are a little skewed because the Phillies focus more on high school talent which delays their arrival in the big leagues. Singleton alone is probably going to put up some pretty nice numbers. Funny that the Angels are in the top three – Mike Trout aside, I’ve always thought of them as having a pretty mediocre system.

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          2. Well, Trout’s 23.6 WAR accounts for about a fifth of that total by itself, which is insane by the way. He has more WAR than all the Phillies draft picks combined!

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            1. As far as I’m concerned, Mike Trout is something like Willie Mays and Mickey Mantle put together and I’m not exaggerating – that’s exactly what he’s done. He’s a three or four times in a century player. Our kids will tell their grandkids that they watched Mike Trout and, if they are from this region, they will have some weird story related to Mike Trout that will be told for years on end (for example, my son’s friend struck Trout out in a showcase game).

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    2. Probably 2 years ago when our top prospect was Trevor May was the lowest point. We’re better now.. 3 top 100 prospects and a budding star in JPC.

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    3. can you tell me why Amaro (who I think needs to go) is always lumped in with everything wrong in minor leagues? There is over 100 minor league prospects (AAA to A ball) and only 3 might be legitimate prospects. Was Amaro the guy who was traveling and scouting all of those guys? As some point we are all gonna have to be big boys and admit this is larger system problem.

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      1. Mainly because Amaro was the one that traded away young talent for older players, traded older players ( Pence & Lee ) for pennies on the dollar. Meaning, he didn’t manage the assets he had well and he overvalued the assets he acquired. You can get away with bad trades with good drafts and and winning a trade every once in a while. He has failed on all accounts and that is why the minor leagues are bad and the major league team is bad.

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        1. honestly at the time it didn’t look so bad. We are talking about first team in all of sports to get to 10,000 losses first. This city was begging for championship and they didn’t just want to win….the wanted to dominate. Amaro knew the fans wanted more…so he fed them Cy Young winners and all-stars stacked onto of an already potent team build thru the draft. He did what most GM who were selling out every game would do…he kept upping the ante. What he didn’t anticipate was pence going yellow once in Philly. Santana shouldn’t had been a throw in…i think most could have lived with Singleton and Cosart. The wheels are coming off…so he will bear most of it but lets keep some perspective here. They won multiple divisions and a world series.

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      2. Yeah, it seems time to admit that Wolever has been a bust. The Phillies sort of recognized this a few years back. Before Arbuckle left the organization, he was asked to get more personally involved in the draft selections, because Gillick wasn’t happy with how things were going. Wolever had taken over most draft duties from Arby, after Arby was promoted.

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      3. Losing a #1 to sign Papelbon is a big hit to the farm. The Pence trade is a huge hit to the farm. Beyond that, I think Wolever and the player development guys have failed them.

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      1. I wouldn’t be surprised if they gave him the option of asking for his release. Say what you will about Hewitt, but he seems to really be determined to stick around.

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        1. Oh yeah, he seems like a great kid and I hope he does well at Vanderbilt. Who knows, he could end up playing and being really good at another sport. He certainly is determined and that’s to his credit – but it’s never going to happen for him in baseball.

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      2. He has a free ride to Vandy, the Harvard of the South, waitng for him courtesy of the Phillies …correct?

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        1. Yes, according to his contract. Although I think any reasonable person who is not a Tar Heel would say Duke is the Harvard of the South. Vandy is more like the Cornell of the South. Still, not a bad idea for him to register for classes in September.

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  9. I never thought it would come to this or that I would say it out loud; but should the Phillies think about trading Utley? His fielding leads me to believe that his knees are not holding up. Could it be that his future is as a DH? The Phillies are going nowhere and the farm system has little to offer. If the Phillies wanted quality prospects, who else besides Lee and Utley could get them? Again, I hate having to suggest this about such a great player Chase Utley.

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    1. The guy who will be traded is Lee. Utley is a lifer and they will still hold out hope they can improve in time for the end of Hamels’ contract (not likely, but they will think that). I expect Papelbon to be traded and I think they will actually get something for him, but they will have to absorb a portion of his contract – sounds like a good trade off.

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      1. I have thought that the Phillies should keep Lee and Utley unless they get a really good offer. Unfortunately, I have been forced to the conclusion that packing off most of the vets is the only thing which will force RAJ and the owners to totally give up on the present MLB team and that being forced to totally give up on the MLB team is the only thing which will lead them to go all-in on amateur player acquisition and development. From never spending 105% of the money MLB allows, to happily abandoning a first rounder to sign Paps early, just as they did with Mesa and Cormier, to shunting Brown to LF so that they could give Delmon Young the position he craved, the Phillies brass seems incapable of focusing upon doing as much as is humanly possible to increase the flow of young talent. That just isn’t where RAJ and the owners are focusing, even with the current awful state of the major league team and the farm. To hear RAJ quoted as thinking the draft is a bad bargain financially is just depressing and all to indicative of where his and the owners’ heads still are. It is a laser focus on patch and fill at the MLB level with every available $ going to the MLB salary budget and continued scrimping on the minors. It has been a sad destruction of a franchise, which had used taxpayer financing for a stadium to temporarily re-make itself into a big-league team. The lack of attention to the future is just staggering. It’s the Bill Giles philosophy. He truly thinks money spent on the minors is wasted.

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        1. I look at it this way….can this team as constituted win a World Series this year or next year?
          If not, then move all the ‘aged core’ players who can be moved, to include Paps and Byrd.
          We are now in the third year of futility. Take the risk now, since delaying until 2016 will further extend on more later years of lean..

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          1. In a world of sensible management, it really does make sense to keep those 2008 vets (and Lee) who can still perform at a good level, in order to win enough games and maintain enough fan interest in the players to sell enough tickets to keep the budget from cratering. But this has to be the cover for a total pedal to the metal approach to acquiring as much amateur talent as quickly as possible. Unfortunately, management seems so in love with the first approach (vets and maintain as close to MLB respectability as possible) that they are quite content to spend only 80-90% of what they are allowed to spend.?

            We’ve heard RAJ speak on what a great value the draft isn’t, we’ve read BA linking organizations to the best international talent, with just a scant mention of the PHillies.

            The vets are fine. Wanting to stay sort of respectable is fine. It is important to hold onto as much of the fanbase as possible and to keep the revenue strong enough not to crater the budget. But where is the sense of urgency to bring fresh talent into this system? The team should be able to pursue both approaches simultaneously, but they aren’t. Given a forced choice between the two, I’d dump the vets for what we can get and focus on rebuild. It is just pathetic hearing how little this team’s management is directed at the draft and international talent acquisition.

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            1. Agree…’…given a forced choice between the two, I’d dump the vets for what we can get and focus on rebuild.’….and believe it not Amaro on the radio this morning said something close to that if things do not change soon.
              I saw the lean years between ’65 and ’75, then the youth movement of Schimdt, Carlton, Bull, Bowa, Boone et al….then the lean years again between ’84 and ’92, and blip with ’93, nut then ’94 thru 2004.
              So the cycle continues.

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            2. From the team’s standpoint, if “what you can get” for a vet is not a good prospect, I see no point to the trade. “What you can get” is unlikely to reach the majors.

              OTOH, I’ve always been the type of baseball fan who roots for the players more than the team. From the players’ standpoint as professionals and setting aside personal reasons for wanting to remain in the community, they should all leave this sinking ship.

              After Rollins breaks the team’s career hit record, he has little reason to remain with the Phils. When his current contract expires after 2015, Rollins should look for the best opportunity to remain a starting SS. By 2017, the Phils will be ready to push Rollins out any way to make room for Crawford. I’d rather see Rollins call his own shot and leave sooner to make that final HOF push.

              Even though there is a slight possibility that the Phils will be good again in four years and a reasonable chance that he will remain a good pitcher, I think that it is in Hamels’ career interests to pitch elsewhere. Hamels is not a HOFer, but he is a very good pitcher with quite a few more good seasons in his tank. I would like to see Hamels maximize his performance by spending the rest of his career playing for a good team in a good pitcher’s park.

              I frankly do not care if the Phils’ attendance drops off dramatically as a result of trading off their vets. I don’t care if the owners make less money. I’d prefer that they lose money. I actually experience a sort of twisted glee in watching Phils’ management be humiliated in the media and around baseball for their incompetence.

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      2. Lee is hurt and there are reports that Utley is hurting. Likely neither in a position to help us or another team, so no trades, unfortunately.

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  10. With Shane Watson starting to throw again when do u think he will be ready to pitch in Lakewood or Clearwater(hopefully)? I say mid-July, Early-August?

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    1. Nobody knows. Seriously, that’s the answer. With pitchers, you don’t know anything until they are fully rehabbed and have pitched for a while. It’s a complete unknown.

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  12. Time to move on . . . The only one who should be safe is Hamels and I wouldn’t be that turned off if they decided to trade him and got a couple of top 100 guys in return. This is what (IMO) needs to happen . . .

    Scrap RAJ now. There’s no reason to allow him to work the trade deadline if he isn’t going to be the GM next year. You bring in the GM of the future now so that he can start his rebuild instead of picking up RAJ idea of a rebuild in the off season.

    Eat salary, Eat salary and Eat more salary. I’ve said this before . . . You have some pieces who could help contending teams (Ruiz, Utley, Rollins, Byrd, Papelbon, Adams, Lee and Burnett) the problem is you won’t get back THAT MUCH because of the money owed to them. However if you eat salary you could get (IMO) a fair amount of talent. Let’s use Utley for example, he’s owed about 9m for the rest of the year and 10m next year . . Eat 50% of that (or more) and a team gets a vet 2B that’s a good club house guy who’s playing at an All Star level for 9.5m over the next 2 years (or 4.75m this yr and next) . . . I would think that could fetch you 2 top 100 guys (one being a fringe top 100). How about Papelbon? Eat say 75% of his 21.8m owed to him over the next 2 years (team getting his services will have to pay about 5.45m over the next 2 years) which will def get you some return. The more money you eat the more you get in return.

    My thinking behind eating a lot of salary is that if you don’t trade them you are paying for a 75 win team and only getting value in their on field performance that gets us no where (or to 75 wins). If you eat salary then you are getting players in return that will help your future. So you are actually in a way paying for prospects to come over and potentially help for the future. You will end up fielding a young team over the next few years during the rebuild so it shouldn’t be a big deal to pay for players going to other teams and pay for the team you’re fielding.

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    1. We can also use $ and not that useful players to buy draft picks in this draft, if we want a quick turnaround. Aumont and Gillies and a bucket of money for two competitive balance draft picks would really boost the turnaround.

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  13. I agree with you to eat salary, but in Utleys case why do they need to eat salary, he isn’t making a ton. for a all-star second basemen. I think the only way you would have to eat his salary if your dealing with a small market team, who is in the race, like a Oakland or pittsburg, I Know no one on here would agree but howard with 11 homeruns and his rbi, might be able to be moved to American league team, If you eat his half his salary. but all these moves would mean they have money, but with the current people in charge, would it really matter????

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  14. honest quetion and probably way to soon to tell but how does next year’s draft look? any young phenoms in the Class of 15?

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    1. Well I know Neumann-Goretti has a left hand pitcher who is 6’4 240 LBS and throws 93-94, looks like a clone of Biddle. but I am not a scout. I am hoping beyond hope that Montgomery retires and amaro is fired, and they bring in a new president from a winning organization, to rebuild, but it wont happen, but I can dream, cant I?

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  15. The truth is, as long as the front office is what it is now, this team is going nowhere

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    1. I really think the main problem starts with Giles and the philosophy he has sold to his ownership team. He has a total disdain for the farm. Just about the first things he did when he bought the team were to send Green and the best scouts packing, appoint himself GM, dismantle the Phillies elite Dominican Republic operation, and curtail spending on the farm. The JD Drew cluster-____ was Giles. The extremely restrictive spending on the draft and international bonuses is Giles’ philosophy. I wouldn’t be surprised if the driving force behind the old school, anti-stats thinking isn’t also Giles. Giles dad was National League President and Giles fancies himself a baseball man, rather than a businessman owner. He has a whole philosophical spiderweb of thought on what baseball should be and what must be done ‘for the good of baseball’. He is a baseball reactionary. The owners choose the GM. RAJ was picked for a reason and he certainly has his broad-brush marching orders. If RAJ is fired, the new GM will follow the same approach with minor tweaks. The best hope is a rebellion by the minority owners, but only Middleton really seems to care whether the team wins or loses.

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  16. South Atlantic All-Stars released. Crawford was the top vote getter. Hiciano, Forsythe and Astudillo were also named.

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