Phillies linked to 3 premium Latin American prospects

International Signings

From today’s international report at Baseball Prospectus, the Phillies are linked to 2 high profile guys and one lower tiered guy. Check below the fold for more…

10. Luis Jolly, LF, Dominican Republic
Height/Weight: 6’2″/170
Bats/Throws: R/R
Jolly is a well-rounded outfielder with solid tools and hitting ability. He is athletic, and gifted with above-average speed, but he lacks the defensive instincts to project him as a center fielder. A below-average arm makes Jolly a left fielder, but happily there’s enough power emerging in his projectable frame. He makes consistent hard contact in workouts, but his bat will have to carry him to profile as an everyday left fielder. He’s drawn heavy interest from the Phillies and Dodgers, with the expected price in the $600-900,000 range.

11. Chesler Cuthbert, 3B, Nicaragua
Height/Weight: 6’1″/190
Bats/Throws: R/R
Cuthbert has a chiseled frame that had one international scouting director saying that it reminded him of a linebacker’s. He also has some length and stiffness to his swing, which has some thinking he may struggle to hit at higher levels. Cuthbert has solid to average speed, and good hands and range along with an average arm, which projects him to be a solid defensive third baseman. He can generate some legitimate power in BP displays with impressive bat speed and leverage. The only real concern is his general rawness, including what one scout called, “a little scariness to the bat.” A number of teams are interested, with the Royals, Braves, and Pirates mentioned most often, but the Phillies, Rangers, Mariners, Red Sox, Cubs, and Cardinals are also showing interest. The projected bonus has risen with growing interest from clubs and is projected to be in the $600-800,000 range.

Dionicio Ramirez, C, Venezuela: The Phillies, Indians, and Mets are interested in this compact, well-rounded backstop, with the money expected to run in the low six figures.

* Save the “yeah, hes not really 16” comments, they’ll just be deleted.

49 thoughts on “Phillies linked to 3 premium Latin American prospects”

  2. I think this is what we were all hoping for, hopefully the Phillies come through with a signing or two…

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  4. PP I’m not sure why your sensoring a known fact that many latin players, particularly dominicans lower their age so they will appear to have more upside than they actually do and be more attractive to other teams.

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  5. marky mark, I think it’s been established that those guys are few and far between these days. The increased controls the United States put on entry into the country has reduced this problem. If a guy did fake his age it’d come out pretty quickly now, like the guy for the Nationals, rather then years later, like Miguel Tejada.

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  7. That’s good to hear rodeo because i’m afraid the phils will throw na lot of money at some 16 year old latin kid who becomes 20 after signing. If you read the article from PP there is a shortstop who falsified his age shortly after being offered 1.3 mil. I think just like steroids, desperation(their situation in their country) will cause many to take their chances.

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  8. Why do we have to talk about it whenever the subject of Latin players comes up though? Whenever you go out with a chick do you think about the potential for an STD?

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  9. Not really the place for that comment…but it needs to be in the back of your mind – that goes for both situations.

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  10. They’re doing bone tests to verify age (aparently accurate +-1 year), from what i’ve heard via a scout, they’re doing it for most prospects above a few hundred thousand in price. So lets put this issue to rest.

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  11. If the look is for any Latin American prospect, Phillies signed a couple of Venezuelans about 2 days ago. A SS and an OF.
    Maybe I’ll add the names later, or somebody else can.

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  13. what kind of chicks are you dating blues? lol. I think to ignore the possibility would be not doing their due dillegence. Experience teaches us to be careful while hopefully not becoming cinical. I trust the phils will due this

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  14. Do the numbers (10, 11) indicate that they are the 10th and 11th rated prospects out of latin america? That surprises me a little. I would think that the Phillies might be a bit more aggressive with the top guys since they have no high draft picks this year…

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  15. The top 5 guys in Latin America probably will be in the $1.5 to $4.0 million range. The Phillies historically have never played in the million-plus ballpark. I think Seung Lee at $1.2 million is the highest the team has gone.

    Given that there is such a large range of projectibility on 16-year-olds, I think the Phillies prefer to spread their money around on multiple second tier prospects. Those prospects tend to cost at least $300K these days rather than $100K in the past. The Phillies have lived with about a $1.0 million budget in recent years with an occasional splurge for a Garcia (500K) or Carrasco ($300K). It looks like they may be budgeting considerably more this year.

    Given the lack of a top pick in the draft, it is possible that the Phillies will end up with as much talent internationally this year as from the draft. We already spent $330K on Santana and have also added a number of lower tier prospects in the DSL and VSL in recent weeks. The emergence of Bastardo and the importance of Carrasco show how crucial this international spending period can be these days.

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  16. I heard the phillies have a 4 million dollar international budget… but I question how reliable that is… I’d put it at 50-50

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  17. Without a first round pick, the Phils are very likely to invest that money in the international draft. I expect a bigger budget this year.

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  18. The Phillies just haven’t had any organizational success with international signings. With the exception of Bastardo (extremely small sample size), Ruiz, and Carlos Silva, I’m hard pressed to think of anybody else who has made a significant major league contribution. It also seems like most of our high profile international signings flame out, Wellinson Baez anyone?

    It bothers me that as good as Bastardo has been, he needs a translator in order to speak with the press. I realize that this is not unusual among baseball players. However one would think that as an organization who wants to develop Latin American prospects, teaching prospects the English language should be a top priority.

    I guess the bottom line for me is to take this kind of news with a grain of salt, until we’re outbidding the Yankees or Red Sox for a player, I won’t get too excited.

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  19. Wouldnt it make sense to see what they can do in the draft. before investing 4 million in the international market. I don’ t know a lot about these kids but its better to me to go after know high school kid who are hard to sign, then take a chance on 16 year old kids, who have such a small showing for you to make a accurate judgement. Plus there is the language factor, kids might get home sick. it’s a lot for young kids to handle.

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  20. Last year we spent something like $7.2 million in draft bonuses and maybe $1.0 million internationally (depending on where Santana is counted). This year I bet we are looking more like $4 million in the draft and $2.5 million internationally, though that is a guess. The overall budget has to be a little smaller this year with the major league payroll. They also probably wait until Aug 15th to really figure out the split. They may save $500K for a late flier that might get spent internationally if we do not sign any late round fliers.

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  21. harrisburghusker Says:
    It bothers me that as good as Bastardo has been, he needs a translator in order to speak with the press
    Yes. I wonder how he gets along with his team mates. Is just shy or an isolationest. I dont understand how this problem wasn’t handled.
    But whatever happens a rapid rise 3rd baseman would be nice if unlikely

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  22. Before we criticize the Welinson Baez signing that much, remember we only spent $200K. There are lots of draft signings in that range that fail to pan out (Tim Moss anyone?). Now Carlos Rodriguez at $700K is another story. He clearly had talent, but little work ethic and discipline. The $2 million wasted in Asia is another case.

    On the other hand, the $200K (or thereabouts) spent in Brazil seems to have yielded a prospect (Correa).

    Mikemike – I disagree with your premise there. I think the team needs a substantial International budget in the $2 million+ range regardless of what we do in the draft. More than 1/3 of prospects come from International free agents these days. The Phillies need to be major players in that market. Remember that other than the top handful of prospects, most Latin American free agents sign for $100K or much less. Our $2-$4 million gets us 20-30 players. If 3-5 each year turn out to be decent prospects that is a fair investment.

    This is also an important year to invest because the Phillies might get more than their fair share of prospects that want to sign to play for the World Series champion. That is the type of notoriety that always helps the Yankees and Red Sox. This does not mean we should overpay, but we should have money to spend and we should be able to land a good number of decent prospects.

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  23. I’d rather we have a bunch of prospects who can play than a bunch of prospects that can talk to the press. Our catcher is bilingual, so who cares…. all that matters is that Bastardo can throw the ball 95 mph and keep the signs straight with his catcher. 80% of human communication is nonverbal anyway.

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  24. Yeah, I forgot about Carlos Rodriguez….the Phils have had limited success with Latin American pitchers vice position players. Maybe it’s easier to turn a guy with a good arm into a pitcher than a position player???

    I just think that before the Phils start spending some serious cash on international prospects, they need to look inward at how they are developing these guys. Any position player who seems to have some talent at the lower levels seems to flame out by the time they hit Clearwater. It can’t be easy coming from the Dominican Republic to staying afloat in professional level baseball.

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  25. I think Tony B. made a pretty quick rise through the system so he probably hasn’t had too much time to pick up English. I’d say what English I’ve heard of his is pretty decent everything considered.

    I know the acadamies have English language classes.

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  26. Boo Boo Magoo the point is the language and age are hard to determine , the true makeup of the kid that’s all . who cares about talking to the press, plus how many major league kids have we had out of that market. since we have been scouting.

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  27. harrisburghusker, he knows the language but just because he may understand what people are saying it doesn’t mean that he is comfortable enough in his skills to talk to a bunch of assembled media.

    I don’t know if Dubee speaks Spanish or not, but he seemed to be communicating with him pretty easily. Same with Moyer. Ruiz does the same thing where he does do a lot of interviews because he isn’t comfortable with his English language skills. Carlos seems pretty alright with his teammates…

    Bastardo, before his first start, did make some comments to CSN at the LV park.

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  28. If we didn’t have Ruiz catching I would suspect Bastardo wouldn’t have had the same comfort level since he supposedly is not very fluent in English.

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  29. Good thing we have a Latin catcher then, eh?

    I’m sure Bastardo knows enough basic english for words like “fastball up” or “changeup away”. I mean, there are no indications that he’s had any issues in the minors with non-Latin catchers. You guys are making an issue where one doesn’t exist. So he can’t give an interview…lots of guys suck at interviews. Hell, UC can’t give a coherent interview and he’s from West Virginia.

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  30. Hopefully the organization has successfully retooled their Latin American development the past couple of years. I agree that we have had a higher than average flame out rate of guys that showed promise at lower levels. This has been coupled with discipline and/or cultural adjustment problems. Signing bonus money is a waste unless we have a good developmental system in place.

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  31. Just wondering out loud. If he gets along with his team who cares. But the organization could make his life off the field
    a little easier by providing help. No biggie.

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  32. harrisburghusker Says:
    It bothers me that as good as Bastardo has been, he needs a translator in order to speak with the press
    Yes. I wonder how he gets along with his team mates. Is just shy or an isolationest. I dont understand how this problem wasn’t handled.
    But whatever happens a rapid rise 3rd baseman would be nice if unlikely

    Manny Ramirez can’t speak english and he was born in the united states, albeit new york city…I saw Antonio Bastardo and his agent in Niketown NYC last evening, being accompanied by Pedro Feliz, a fellow countryman I believe…so the phillies are dealing with the language barrier by partnering up the young kid with someone he feels comfortable talking to, and he will slowly assimilate as he gets comfortable…they both are quiet and unassuming, and pedro doesn’t speak fluid english either…they are here to play baseball, sports are supposed to break down barriers, who cares about interviews, just represent your adopted city well and fans will love you for it.

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  34. sorry, manny came to the us when he was 13, and still can’t speak english…yao ming learned in 2 years, it is the will of the individual and the necessity to do so

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  35. Regarding the language issue:

    I don’t think that we should expect guys like Bastardo to be completely fluent in English, but then again I don’t think it’s asking much to at least expect the guys to be able to hold a conversation.

    Bastardo has been in our organization for a while now. If you think about him coming up through GCL, Lakewood, Clearwater, Reading, etc, it’s kind-of discouraging that he still needs a translator for every conversation. It’s not like he would have been surrounded by Spanish-speaking people in New Jersey and Pennsylvania, and had no exposure to English.

    I just went to the Dominican Republic in April for a missions trip. Despite my last Spanish class in college being over a year ago, I found myself able to easily hold basic conversations with the people I encountered down there. The best way to learn the language is to simply immerse yourself in the country where it is native, and give yourself no choice but to learn the lingo. Ask questions “what is this in Spanish?” for everything you don’t know, and pretty soon your vocabulary is exploding.

    English and Spanish are really not that dissimilar anyways. They’re both derived from the same alphabet, and a ton of words are actually the same in each language. I would say that English IS a little trickier due to some random pronunciations, but as far as languages go, it’s a lot easier to learn English than say, Russian, if you are coming from Latin America.

    As posted on this website, one of the reasons this organization LOVES Heitor Correa is because he is fluent in English, Spanish, and Portuguese. Guys like these are huge boosts for every clubhouse that houses guys from all over this hemisphere. If a (then) 16-year-old Correa could be fluent in 3 languages, it’s not asking much to expect a 23-year-old to at least be conversational in two.

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  36. With all the years of winter ball that Coste played, I would be stunned if he didn’t speal a little spanish. Also, a comparison to Yao learning english is not fair. Yao became an instant millionaire and was singularly representing a few billion people so he had the where with all and incentive to learn english quickly. Let’s just enjoy the way Bastardo throws a baseball shall we? By the way, any word on Garcia? How much older will he be when he finally appears?

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  37. It seems that the Latin American development program is progressing but is not quite there yet. Most the GCL Phils came from there. However of the 11 Phils prospects selected to this season’s High A and Low A All Star games only Yohan Flande, Harold Garcia and Fidel Hernandez came out of Latin development programs plus Tim Kennelly from Australia.

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  38. I hope nobody is interpreting my comments as being derrogatory towards Antonio Bastardo or any other Spanish speaking players.

    I just think that this organization does a bad job of developing latin prospects, and my opinion is that Bastardo being unable to speak English is part of the reason why.

    I know there are a lot of Latin players who are uncomfortable speaking with the press, if he knows enough English to fit in with the clubhouse and talk baseball with his teammates (like Jaime Moyer), than all is well.

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  39. Today reading about tonight’s draft. It seems the high school kids are really asking for big dollars. They are looking 4-7 million bonus. for top picks. I don’t understand these kids, a lot of the kids go to college and never make it back to the top end of the draft. What is wrong with a million or 2 to start your life. The greed is going to hopefully get the draft to be capped. Unproven high school kids, at 17 or 18 to have that kind of money, is unreal, If you think about it that money could be put into a safe account and these kids if they never make the pros, would have there houses paid, and enough money for college or to open a business, with no risk. if they fail,

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  40. Reading the scouting reports on Jolly and Cuthbert, they don’t seem to be given glowing praise – “some power”, “average” arm”, “a little scariness in the bat”, etc. I’m just curious if the projected signing bonuses are worth the risk. I have limited (okay, I don’t follow it at all) experience in the Latin American markets – are these types of scouting reports not that unusual for 16 year olds (essentially high school sophomores or juniors)? I’m assuming there is a LOT of projection that goes into these signings, and there is a lot more risk with these markets than there are with HS and college players. I’m all for rolling the dice internationally, especially this year, so hopefully they do get some highly ranked Latino players (in addition to Santana, who IIRC was highly praised in the scouting report)

    – Jeff

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  43. @RB…are you saying that “only” 4 out of the 11 lower level all-star players were signed internationally? To me, that’s great since I would guess that less than 36% of the players on those rosters were signed internationally, meaning that the ones the team is signing are performing at a high level.

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  44. Greg you could make that case. I believe that about 30% of all ML players are from Latin America. The other A+- level Phils All Stars were drafted: Brown, Drabek, Cloyd, DeFratus, Rosenberg, Gose and D’Arnaud.

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  45. I’ve seen bastardo on CSN do a really brief interview. He seemed a little bit nervous using the language, and misused a word or two, nothing horrendous. I just think that he’s not comfortable with his English speaking abilities to give a long interview.

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  47. JPD,

    you & I must be the only two people who saw the CSN Batardo interview. It was broken english but english nonetheless. He held the convo well in my opinion.

    And to the others: Dobbs, Coste and Ibanez (along w Ruiz) all speak spanish. (I’ve been told Dobbs’ mom is Peruvian??)

    And not that any of us can guarantee Bastardo understood, didn’t we all see Moyer and him talking pretty intently after he got pulled vs the Padres???

    I’m sure he knows enough to understand what Dubee or whomever is saying but likely just feels most comfortable speaking spanish.

    Lest we forget- wasn’t MANNY RAMIREZ born in The Bronx!!?

    lol

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  48. Looks like Cuthbert is going to the Royals for $1.5M. They overpaid considerably, unless the price of doing business in Latin America has increased substantially. I’d rather put million dollar bonuses into the draft (Colvin, Stewart, Susac).

    I am assuming the Luis Jolly price (the most likely high-priced guy we were going to have a shot at) is now $1M plus.

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