Trade chatter, 5/28

Trade Discussion

I’m sure with the latest news on Brett Myers, everyone is going to want to start speculating on the trade front. The Phillies rotation has been awful this season (but better over the last 2 turns), and if Myers goes down, it leaves a big hole in the starting 5. There have been lots of reports that we’ve kicked the tires on just about every pitcher out there who might be available. Feel free to discuss that here. But I wanted to try and gauge the pecking order right now. So, list the 5 prospects you wouldn’t want to see traded, with #1 being the guy you want to hold onto the most, and #5 being our 5th most valuable guy, if that makes sense. My quick reaction list would be…

1. Dominic Brown
2. Kyle Drabek
3. Lou Marson
4. Michael Taylor
5. Carlos Carrasco

161 thoughts on “Trade chatter, 5/28”

  1. 1. Kyle Drabek
    2. Dominic Brown
    3. Lou Marson
    4. Michael Taylor
    5. Vance Worley

    1 and 2 are real tough, it’s probably interchangable. I say Kyle just because of scarcity – Even if Brown doesn’t make it, they do have Taylor and a pretty solid, young OF right now.

    I’ve said it before, but to me Carrasco is another Vincente Padilla. I think Worley can be a real consistent major league pitcher. Could Carrasco turn into a #2 or maybe even a weak #1 if everything turned out right for him? Sure. I’d rather put my hat on the fact that I think Worley has a better shot at being a very solid #3. I guess it’s just your opinion on risk.

    Like

  3. 1. J.A. Happ- though I was not previously high on Happ, so much, they need him now it appears to me, and it might likely be counter productive to subtract Happ while adding another.
    2. Drabek, because of the high potential.
    3. & 4. Knapp and Carrasco , somewhat because of potential.
    5. Dominic Brown- because of high upside as a positional guy.
    Marson and Donald, can the bloom be off the rose?
    But really , outside of Happ, because of above-stated reasons, there is not too much not to include for the right guy.

    Like

  5. actually add knapp as an untouchable on my list due to his low age and high potential as well

    Like

  6. 1. Dom Brown- Seems on the way to being a top ten prospect and then a 5 tool superstar. No way they can trade him.

    2. Kyle Drabek- Could be a great closer or a solid #2.

    3. Mike Taylor- A tick below Brown just a tad older with less electric tools.

    4. Lou Marson- A solid catcher.

    5. Carlos Carrasco- Still only 22, people forget that since he’s been around forever, could be a great 3 or more still and they should only give him up for a guy like Peavy or Halladay.

    Like

  8. what are the chances bastardo gets an opportunity with 2 more great starts at Lehigh Valley?

    Like

  9. 1-Dom Brown (3-4 tonight!!)
    2-Kyle Drabek
    3-Michael taylor
    4-carlos carrasco
    5-Jason Knapp (his age and stuff scream he’s going to be good)
    6-Vance Worley
    7-Antonio Bastardo

    I think they should promote from within before they trade for anyone.

    Promote Carpenter, Bastardo or Carrasco

    then move Worley to LHV and Drabek to Reading and Cloyd to Clearwater.

    Like

  10. 1. Dominic Brown
    2. Kyle Drabek
    3. Jason Knapp
    4. Michael Taylor
    5. Carlos Carrasco or Lou Marson

    I’m more tempted to switch Marson and Taylor but I’m sticking to my guns. Arms are just such a premium that I don’t see any trade happening with out one of these pitchers being involved though.

    Like

  12. I think with Ruiz hitting passably, and D’Arnaud lurking, Marson shouldn’t be on anyone’s untouchable list. It would be great if he developed power, and its nice he gets on base, but really, is he going to be that much above a league average catcher that we can’t find a comparable replacement if necessary? Why anyone would rather get rid of an arm or power hitting outfielder is beyond me – I would be overjoyed if a trade partner asked for Marson instead of Taylor.

    Like

  13. 1. Brown
    2. Drabek
    3. Taylor
    4. Knapp
    5. Carrasco

    I’m fine with trading Marson and Donald. Both have shown clear ceilings and neither really has a place on the team right now, which takes away their best attribute: that they are prospects ready to contribute right now. Neither of them have the upside that any of the above guys have, and since we don’t need them, they’re expendable. In fact, I’d encourage trading Donald specifically because his value needs to be cashed in on now at age 24.

    Like

  14. 1a. Brown – 5 tool potential
    1b. Drabek – ace material
    3. Taylor – 5 tool potential but not as great as Brown’s potential.
    4. Knapp – Young and ridiculously talented
    5. Marson – Ruiz is 30 years old…

    I like Carrasco but he seems like a head case. Hopefully he’ll mature over the next year. I wonder if the Phillies have ever considered having a sport psychologist to talk to all their players. It could help a lot.

    I really hope they can land Peavy.

    Like

  15. Interesting tidbit from over at ESPN from Jayson Stark (a personal favorite and someone who seems very tied into things) which I though was on topic for this discussion. Only saw Bastardo hit 7th on Mike’s top 5 (yes, just funnin’ with you Mike) and nowhere else but then saw this:
    **************************************
    Then there’s a left-hander who is climbing everybody’s charts, Antonio Bastardo, who has a 50-9 strikeout-walk ratio between Double-A and Triple-A. The Phillies dangled Bastardo in July for Rockies reliever Brian Fuentes. But a year later, he is actually drawing some Johan Santana comparisons, and might have passed Carrasco as their No. 1 pitching prospect.

    Like

  16. 1. Tim Kennelly
    2. Everyone else

    ok, seriously please do not trade:

    1. Dom Brown
    2. Michael Taylor
    3. Kyle Drabek
    4. Jason Knapp
    5. Carlos Carrasco

    Basically it would kill me to see those top 3 develop into studs somewhere else, since I feel so confident that they have a strong likelihood of doing so. Knapp has a high ceiling, so I want to see him progress here, not elsewhere. Carrasco I would be ok to part with, but I would feel like we gave up too early.

    At different times I’ve been a cheerleader for Marson and Donald, but I feel like the potential for the 5 I mention is that much greater than for Marson or Donald.

    Like

  17. can guys like Knapp, Worley, and stutes even be traded right now? i thought they had to stay in our system for the year.

    Alot has been said about Bastardo, but i want to give him another couple of starts at AAA, besides, he would make 4 lefties in the rotation. Carrasco is a headcase with all the talent in the world, but he isn’t ready to move up. I think KK needs more time to develop but he might be the one to move up. I would love to see them suprise use and bring up worley or stutes to see what they can do. Carpenter seems like a safe bet for me as a righty who is very consistant.

    my list is
    1.Brown
    2.Drabek
    3. taylor
    4. marson
    5. Bastardo

    I think carrasco could be on there as well, but im worried about his mental makeup. As stated before i dont think the guys drafted last year can be traded? so they aren’t on the list. Maybe im wrong, i dont know.

    Like

  18. 1. Michael Taylor
    2. Kyle Drabek
    3. Dom Brown
    4. Carlos Carrasco
    5. Antonio Bastardo

    The first three could really go in any order for me. I just put Taylor at 1 because he’s the closest to the majors and Drabek over Brown because there’s nothing more valuable than a front-line starter.

    Like

  19. Taylor, Brown, Drabek, Bastardo and Worley are untouchables. They can help the major league team right now if needed. Carrasco is a head case in the Gavin Floyd tradition so you might get something for him. Certainly teenagers like Knapp, Correa, Gose, Collier, Galvis and Valle are off the table.

    You have to give up something to get something. Make available excess young catching inventory. Marson and/or D’Arnaud might get what you want from any organization in need of young catching. Valle and Naughton will provide the right/left hitting combination needed for the post Ruiz era. Valle won’t turn 19 for another two months and has already led a team to a post season championship and this season Naughton is leading all catchers in homers and is on pace to hit 18-20 home runs in the Florida State League. Can see Joel backing up Chooch in the post Coste era.

    Like

  20. dcwildcat53, you’re right about there being a trade restriction for a period of time. I don’t remember the specifics, but these guys can always be included as a PTBNL and once the period is over they get moved to the new team.

    Like

  22. 1.) Drabek
    2.) Brown
    3.) Taylor
    4.) Knapp

    As long as they keep those four, they can trade anyone else in the system in my opinion. I definately wouldn’t cry to see a package of any mix of, say… Carrasco, Mayberry, Donald and Marson… go out the door for a frontline starter.

    Like

  23. Promotions one level should be in order for:
    Taylor
    Brown
    Schwimmer
    Drabek
    De Fratus
    Rosenberg

    Like

  26. 1. Drabek (based more on the contract status of Moyer, Myers, and Blanton than on potential value compared to position prospects)
    2. Brown
    3. Taylor
    4. Marson
    5. Carrasco (he and/or possibly Marson would seem to be the most likely to go in a deal)

    On a side note, it cheered me up a little to read the automatically-generated related post up top entitled, “What is Michael Bourn’s trade value?”. Remember when there was serious debate whether it would be smarter to move Victorino or Bourn for bullpen help?

    Like

  27. BP the ptbnl is until a year has passed since the players were signed. . . then they can be moved.

    I’m honestly not sure why Worley is on many lists. . . . Don’t get me wrong I’ve been on the Worley bandwagon since last year but I wouldn’t put him on my untouchable list or top 5 prospects I want to keep list.

    Like

  28. I woulc keep:

    1- Drabek
    2- Brown
    3- Donald
    4- Taylor
    5- Knapp

    I believe DOnald will be fine. I’m more ok losing Marson this yr than last. If it came down to it I’d rather keep D’Arnaud over Marson.

    Like

  29. I think with the hype Bastardo is getting, a package of him and D’Arnaud and a mid-level prospect (Brummett, Galvis, Flande) isn’t unheard of for Peavy or Oswalt. Once you get down to guys like Penny and Bedard, we shouldn’t be selling the pharm, especially if we’re only holding onto the pitcher for one year. If somebody comes in with a few years left on the deal, or would want to negotiate to stay, then yes, but I wouldn’t deal 3 or 4 pieces of our future for half a season from a pitcher. For my top 5…..

    1. Dominic Brown
    2. Kyle Drabek
    3. Michael Taylor
    4. Jason Donald
    5. Lou Marson

    Donald and Marson will both be fine. It’s baseball, it all evens out over the course of a season. Drabek is our number 1 pitching prospect right now, and Carrasco has very little trade value with the way he’s been pitching so it makes sense to keep him at least until he turns it around. Bastardo is the guy that needs to go, his hype is insane right now (Santana comps are laughable), remember the Phils had him as a reliever a month ago. I hope Worley stays but I don’t think he’s ready to take Myers’ spot. Bring up Kendrick or wait a bit and call on Chacin.

    Like

  30. buster olney was talking about a jason donald for brad penny swap with the phils obvious need for a SP, and the red sox need for an SS, they are not happy with how lugo is playing after lowrie went down for the year

    Like

  32. I am fine with a Donald for Penny trade. I think, in the short run, it helps the Phils a lot if Penny can still bring it and it provides a nice bridge to their young starting pitchers. If it costs Donald it’s well worth it because they won’t be giving up their most high level talent.

    In the medium and long run, it will be great for the Sox as Donald is going to become a very nice player. I’m not sure what happened this year, but I suspect this is temporary.

    The harder question is, what, if anything, do you give up for Peavy? Donald and Carrasco would be a fair price, as would Donald and Drabek. I’d hate to see Drabek go, but Peavy is still young, under contract for four and a half years, I believe (2013, right?) and is just a flat out great pitcher. If the Phillies had a Hamels, Peavy combination, they would be well set up to bring MULTIPLE WS titles back to Philly over the next 3 or 4 years. If you’re Amaro and can get that done without killing the farm system, you have to do it.

    Like

  33. Hmm, the problem, Catch, is that Peavy is not really a flat out great pitcher. His numbers away from Petco, while good, are nowhere near the ace level of a Hallady/Santana. Also, while Peavy is under contract, it is definitely not a team friendly contract, it is market value at best, and overpaying a bit at worst.

    My list would be Brown, Drabek, Taylor, and Carrasco. Really, those are the four I would have trouble parting with. I feel each and every one of them could become an all-star caliber player in the major leagues, and that is hard to trade away. If I had to name a fifth, it would probably be D’Arnaud because of his similarly high ceiling. Although if D’Arnaud was the centerpiece of a deal that would bring us a Peavy/Oswalt/Bedard type, I would be just fine with that seeing as Marson seems to have the floor of an average MLB catcher. I just hope the farm system, after finally producing some legit prospects, does not get raped because a new GM is a bit desperate to prove himself worthy of his WS winning predecessor.

    Like

  34. i still think donald will be fine but to get haren my #1 choice i,d trade any minor leager. same with peavy althiugh he seems like a bit of a head case. i dont no where this carrasco head case comes from ive never heard that. afa my picks brown and taylors stats are virtually the same is everyone picking brown because of BA. ive never seen either one. to me taylor,s being rh is an advantage. my favorites one of taylor/brown drabek, worley, donald bastardo. and ive never seen any of them. saying that we three acceptible pitchers imo. hamels happ and blanton. we need 2. 1 trade 1 call up. trade for haren peavy( he wont come)or oswalt and bring up bastardo.

    Like

  36. Drabek and Brown are my only untouchables. The way Bastardo’s been pitching, maybe they should just bring him up. Jayson Stark quoted some scout as saying they think he might be the best pitcher in the organization right now.

    Like

  38. Drabek, Brown, Taylor ,Worley, Knapp, Drabek is a #1 and pitching wins, that is why he is over Brown

    Like

  39. I think at this point there is no reason to trade. Thus barring a golden deal, don’t trade anyone of value. We need to fill the Myer’s vacancy from within for a short time and evaluate options. I also think, if we’re interested in Peavy – the longer we wait into the season the less we’ll have to give up. I would work the Oswalt angle and try to Thome Ed Wade.

    Also, beware of the waiver wire… the Phils do like to dumpster dive.

    Like

  40. In a slightly off topic point, PP (or anyone else knowlegeable on the subject) do an article on pitch counts and either defend or discount their use in modern baseball. Reading that article from conlin on Philly.com has me wondering how things are going to work out for the rangers.

    Like

  41. Penny has been better in May than April . That makes sense given his injury and adjustment to his first small park but 5 mil !

    Like

  42. If the past is any indication, they’ll bring up the soundest pitcher of recent past in the higher end of the system… bastardo anyone?

    On another note, anyone seen Jason Donald? Is he okay?

    Like

  44. And just to follow up ok bastardo, at soMe point people are going to have to take this kid more seriously and stop regarding his pedigree. His numbers look like an arcade game. And his k/9. Has been consistant over quite a significant statistical set. He deserves a shot, 2 more starts, the put him in the phillies rotation if he continues. As for the mean time, give kendrick the ball.

    Like

  45. Brown, Drabek & Taylor are the only three I’d hate to see go. These are the guys I see as future all-stars that I wouldn’t want to see on an opposing team. But for the right deal I don’t think any prospect is untouchable.

    Like

  46. My list would be:

    1. Drabek
    2. Brown
    3. Carrasco
    4. Taylor
    5. Worley

    In the short-term, I think the Phillies will try a few internal options like Carpenter and/or Kendrick to see if they can some serviceable starts. If that doesn’t work over the next 5-6 starts, they will then look to make a deal as it gets closer to the trade deadline.

    One wildcard this season is that because of the struggling economy and bad attendence in many parks, a lot of teams are going to be under pressure to decide earlier than normal if they are contenders or not. This may free up some players in the trade market earlier than normal and may create more of a buyer’s market.

    Like

  47. Drabek- Arms like this, you can’t trade them.
    Brown- Just looking so good.
    Knapp- Again, a special arm.
    Taylor- Another masher for the Phillies!
    Carrasco- Value is too low right now to sell.

    I’d say that really the only two guys I wouldn’t trade are Drabek and Knapp (for the names that are being talked about anyway). I’d just hate to see the other three go. Especially Brown because he’s looking like a five tool guy, but bats are easier to come by…

    Like

  48. Supra98x, a couple comments on Conlin and pitch counts.

    1. I think using Hamels’ average after eight starts is short sighted, considering he left two of them due to injury.

    2. Conlin suffers from era blindness here, making the assumption that the era you remember was the way baseball always was and should be. From 1962-80, 66 pitchers topped 300 innings in a season. (20 years from the 1962 rule changes onwards, I left out 1981 as it was a shortened season.) In the 20 years previous from 1942-61, there were 18. And six of those were Robin Roberts. The second deadball era was a historical anomaly.

    3. For every innings eating stud there were a dozen pitchers who flamed out.

    4. Pitching is harder today than ever before. Thirty years ago, a guy coming out of the bullpen throwing 90 threw gas, and Juan Berenguer pumped it up to 95 mph. Pitchers are being stretched to the limits of their physical capabilities. This is also why we see more injuries. As the game grows more competitive, players are overreaching what the human body was designed for.

    I agree that pitch counts are generally a waste of time. But they will not lead us back to the era of the complete game. When you have a guy like Joe Nathan throwing a sub two ERA for half a decade, what manager in his right mind is going to leave his starter there? Is Charlie Manuel really going to sit on J.A. Happ in a tie ballgame when he has Matt Stairs on the bench and Brad Lidge, Ryan Madson and J.C. Romero in his bullpen?

    Beyond that, rarely do I see a pitcher throw 110 pitches through six innings and look good doing it. Forty years ago, that ace might have been your best option. With today’s bullpens, he is not. And to tie this back together, of course the Phillies should continue to monitor the pitch counts of their young prospects.

    Like

  49. Bastardo would make 4 lefties in rotation,that won’t happen
    but i do think they can get help from within,,,but please not Chan Ho

    Like

  51. 1. Brown
    2. Drabek
    3. Taylor
    4. Worley
    5. Knapp

    But really would only be very upset if any of the first 4 are traded, especially Brown or Drabek. With Brown, he seems to have all star potential and with Ibanez’s age and Werth perhaps not being able to live up to a full time outfielder, plus the contract of Howard and Rollins up within a couple years, they could really use the infusion of a young bat like his. And of course Drabek seems to be putting together a very nice season post injury and has a high ceiling.

    Like

  52. I’m going to basically say what most others are saying:

    Brown and Drabek are just about untouchable – if you trade them, you better be getting a total stud that you control for a few years.

    Taylor is a tick below those two.

    The rest are all tradeable, although I’d go with Carpenter for a start or two, then call up Bastardo if he has a few more starts like last night. And I agree with those who are getting a bit concerned about Carrasco being Padilla v2.0 – he seems like he is great if everything goes his way, but gets screwed up if they don’t.

    – Jeff

    Like

  53. On the Trade Chatter thing.Been reading on MLBTRADERUMORS that Oswalt was trying to get Astros to acquire Peavy, but they didn’t have the money so it was no go. How about the Phillies persuade them both to come to Philly in a package deal by flushing about 10 top prospects from the system to clear the slerotic blockage. How about it? Ehh?

    Like

  54. First, I would throw out that there should be no untouchable players. Priority one is to help the big club. This means the trade needs to provide equal value. If a deal includes Brown and Drabek, I want a great deal in return.

    The 5 I would not want to trade are:
    1. Brown
    2. Drabek
    3. Knapp
    4. D’Arnaud
    5. Carrasco

    Carrasco makes the list simply because his poor performance this year has decreased his value. If we could get a lot for Carrasco I would deal him.

    Not on the list:
    Worley and Stutes – Probably 4/5 starter ceilings and both are pitching well. Sell high.
    Taylor – Playing really well and his value is high. Between Brown and Taylor I trade Taylor
    Marson – I am comfortable with Ruiz for a couple more years and letting D’Arnaud and Valle fight it out.
    Savery – looks like a marginal big leaguer to me (Naylor also)
    Donald – wish he was playing better, but as a tweener he really needs to stay in the middle infield to have value. With Rollins and Utley going nowhere, he should be dealt.

    Like

  55. Here’s who I’m never discussing unless I’m getting Roy Halladay in return and signed at 5yr/$35m (lol)
    1) Dominic Brown
    2) Kyle Drabek
    3) Michael Taylor
    4) Lou Marson (could change is D’Arnaud hits this summer)
    5) Antonio Bastardo

    Here’s who I’m shopping:
    1) Carlos Carrasco
    2) Jayson Werth
    3) John Mayberry
    4) Jason Donald
    5) Kyle Kendrick

    Like

  56. And FWIW, if they’re going to trade for someone, right now the only guy I have interest in is Aaron Harang. He’s controlled through 2011 at a solid rate ($12.5), is a GB pitcher, and is returning to his career norm this year. And I don’t think it’d cost a ton to get him since Cincy, I’m sure, will want to dump his salary. I wouldn’t be shocked if they ate some of it to get younger.

    Otherwise, I’m on the Paul Byrd and Pedro Martinez bandwagon to start off and wait on overreacting immedaitely.

    Like

  58. I am not ready to tank the farm. For the record, good offenses typically win the most during the season, I would rather the phillies stay in the top 5 offensively, if only because it gives them a better chance to get to the playoffs. Plus, it’s not like they can’t meet somewhere in the middle. My 2 cents, there aren’t 5 players I wouldn’t trade, but… there are 3.

    Brown, Taylor and Draybek.

    As for the rest, I’m good with them trading 1 of the 3 top catching prospects. I’m good with Carrasco being traded if you can get pre-this-season value for him. As for others I would prefer they not trade, Worley and Knapp, if only because it’s too early to really have a real feel for them and could easily turn into a disasterous trade.

    That said, I understand that trading can be a buy low sell high theory. So, given that, from a purely logical stand point, give our guys a shot in 4 games, if it goes well/alright (think ~4.5 era), wait until the trading deadline to get a better deal. If however, they implode, Trade Marson (if his numbers start to pick up) or Carrasco or even Taylor (more for a higher end starter), plus a filler or two for a #2-3 starter under contract.

    That last senario only applies if you think you have a shot at another win in the East. If not, shoot for a 3-4 starter and hope for the wild card.

    Like

  59. Drabek
    Brown
    Taylor
    Knapp
    Carrasco

    There’s been recent talk about Martinez and Sheets getting a looking from the Phils. I doubt that they would go out and get both of them but popular consensus before hand was we would go out and get a pitcher anyway. Now, there is a chance that Myers is gone for the rest of the season. If that’s the case then we will have to add two. Whether one or both come from the farm is up in the air. I would expect at least one addition from trade. If it isn’t a top of the rotation starter and we give up one of our very promising arms I’ll be very disappointed.

    I’m still looking forward to a Houston fleecing. Maybe there is some slop that Eddie-boy still rates highly and would take in a deal with Carrasco and marson/donald for Roy.

    I’m sure that everyone’s #1 would be Halladay, but unlike the others we would probably have to give up A LOT of the future compared to getting deals done for the likes of Peavy, Bedard or Oswalt.

    I do want to see what Bastardo can do, but that issue of having too many lefties crops up.

    Stark says that “Lou Marson, Jason Donald, Carlos Carrasco, Travis D’Arnaud, Freddy Galvis, Kyle Drabek, Dominic Brown, and Antonio Bastardo” are all popular trade targets from the Phillies. Drabek and Brown, out everyone else is fair game in my book.

    Like

  60. Last year I would have been really adverse to letting Marson go because I saw him as a Ruiz replacement sooner rather than later, but Ruiz has really upped his game in my eyes. If Marson is needed to protect a couple of our young arms then it should be a go. I still do think that we have enough pitchers right on the cusp to give them a chance.

    If Kendrick could do what he did coming up from Reading 2 years ago then why can’t someone else?

    Like

  61. 1) Taylor
    2) Brown
    3) Drabek
    4) D’Arnaud
    5) Bastardo

    I, too, would add a “very reluctant” list.
    6) Carrasco
    7) Marson

    A lot depends on who they’re looking at, too. Sending even Donald to COL for Marquis would leave a sour taste in my mouth.

    Like

  62. Mo, what Kendrick did two years ago could be done by Brummett, Carpenter, or even you or I. It is called luck. Will it happen? Unlikely.

    Like

  64. Sheets hasn’t thrown since February and there is currently no known timetable right now on when he’d even be remotely ready to step back on the mound. Simply put, he’s probably not going to pitch this season; and if he does, it’s going to be with the Texas Rangers in Arlington Park, where he hangs out on a daily basis.

    Like

  65. Neduol Caz Says:
    May 29, 2009 at 9:40 am

    Mo, what Kendrick did two years ago could be done by Brummett, Carpenter, or even you or I. It is called luck. Will it happen? Unlikely.

    ——————-

    Well, you know what they say. “I’d rather be lucky than good.”

    Obvciously we know what Kendrick’s limitations were/are. That’s not what I meant. I meant that we have pitchers in the system who are better prospects with better stuff. What is to stop them from making a similar splash?

    Like

  66. Mo, I agree that we do have better prospects with better stuff at this point in time than we did back in 2007. But your argument doesn’t quite hold up. You are basically saying that Kendrick was fine, and since Bastardo/Carrasco/Worley have better stuff than Kendrick, they will produce better results. This would be a fine argument except for the fact that Kendrick’s success was not dependant upon “stuff”, but rather luck. And, as we all know, luck is not a controllable skill. So, while Bastardo/Carrasco/Worley are infact better pitchers, they are not guaranteed to have better results. All that being said, I might not be opposed to the idea of letting Carrasco take a few shots in the rotation to see what would happen.

    Like

  67. Would Donald + Carrasco be too much for Bedard? I don’t care if he is a lefty or not, the only concern is that he would possibly be a rental.

    Like

  68. No one is talking about guarantees or probabilities of this or that happening though. All I’m saying is give them a chance. Which I’m sure few would be upset about happening. I’m not as in tune with using using up years of eligibility and stuff like that as others are so I don’t know if it’s going to matter much, but we have players who are close to MLB ready moving up prospect charts. Vance is playing better than most suspected. Bastardo has surprised everyone with his effectiveness this year. All I’m saying is that even though luck isn’t a quantifiable trait, these players, right off the bat, will have a better chance of “making it” than a guy like Kendrick. Haha, I’m not sure how else to explain myself. It isn’t like pitchers haven’t come up and pitched well enough to stay up or done more than enough to stay up.

    Like

  69. Mo, I think I agree with your premise but not your orignal argument which was if Kendrick could do it, why not ____? I wouldn’t mind seeing Carrasco get his shot.

    Like

  70. My untouchables are the same as everyone else-drabek,brown,taylor but would give any of them up for the untouchable halladay. I would give up taylor,savery, bastardo,worley mayberry,carrasco(full value) and galvis for him. I would love haren and would give up brown, d’arnaud, stutes, carpenter and kendrick because they might think webb can help him and he’s only 24 w/ 21 wins. He sought webb out last year for help during a series because they pitch simmilarly. Kendrick is a ghetto webb so please no backlash over this comment. I would give up marson and donald for buckholtz who is 3-0 w/1.30 ERA and 0.74 whip and more k’s than innings pitched. Just read sox need a shortstop and aren’t happy w/ lugp plus they inquired about marson earlier.

    Like

  72. I wouldn’t give up too much for Bedard because he is in a walk year and he is way injury proned. I’d look long and hard at doing a deal for Peavy assuming he would agree to move here.

    Before the Myers news I think they were really considering getting an upgrade at Blantons spot now you need to make 2 strong moves. Based on the scouting reports I like the idea of bringing up Worely. Most agree he has the maturity and the stuff to compete at this level and not be frustrated if they do make a move and have to send him back down.

    If you want to make a deal with Boston Justin Masterson is the guy you want not Bucholz. Masterson is major league ready with a nasty sinking fastball. It would take Marson and another arm to reload them in their system. Most likely Drabek or Carrasco.

    Like

  73. Very interesting, my list has changed a ton since just two months ago. However, I am willing to move anyone outside of the top 3, but I caution against selling low on AAA guys like Marson, Donald, and Carrasco. I’d put it as:
    1. Dominic Brown
    2. Kyle Drabek
    3. Michael Taylor
    4. Jason Knapp
    5. Antonio Bastardo

    Like

  74. I think I’d give up any player or combination of players for Roy Halladay with two exceptions: Brown and Drabek. If we were to sign Halladay long term, there has to be replacements to offset payroll in the future. Those two guys currently are it. I think with Halladay, we’d open up a lead and cruise to the division title for the next few years. It would be like Dorney Park or Hershey Park going to Phillies games. Smiles galore. Few know this, but that’s the way it’s been in Boston for years now. Still is.

    Like

  75. I realized I just totally forgot about D’Arnaud, replace Bastardo with him on my list.

    Like

  76. a)Untouchable:
    1. Kyle Drabek

    b)Only in the right deal: Dan Haren, Roy Halladay, Mat Cain, Josh Johnson, Peavy (streeeech), James Shields (Lincecum, J. Santana, F. Hernadez, Chad Billingsley = not happen so why bother).

    2. Dominic Brown
    3.Carlos Carrasco
    4. Lou Marson
    5. Michael Taylor

    Like

  77. I think some restricted lists here are unrealistic. You can’t say certain guys are off limits and you can get a pitcher with anyone else. The off limits guys are the ones they will ask for. Eveyone will want Brown and Drabek. I think you have to include at least Brown OR taylor in a trade. Unrealistic to think you can keep both for a top pitcher. We would be lucky to keep Brown and trade Taylor, but that might nix a deal. Likewise Carrasco and Drabek. We would be lucky to keep Drabek. But I don’t think Taylor and Carrasco + lesser talents gets you Peavy or Oswalt, so we may have to take our lumps. Maybe Brown and Carrasco+ gets you one of them. Love to see us get a top pitcher for Taylor and Carrasco, as much as I think both will be good players. But for Oswalt I would not do anything without a 3 yr contract signed with us.

    They will likely go for lesser guys who might be had for Donald, Bastardo, etc. level package.

    Like

  78. What are you talking about? Did you see the crap the White Sox were going to give the Padres for Peavy?

    Like

  79. can you imagine haren and halliday on this team. i would send the entire farm system for those 2.

    Like

  80. Pat Burrell. I thought that maybe it was me but three relief pitchers for peavy. The owner of the padres wants him off his books. from what I have read.

    Like

  81. john from philly.ne – you make some of the most ridiculous comments. i haven’t figured out if you truly believe the crap you write or just post to stir the pot.

    Like

  82. obviously john knows this could never happen but what’s wrong with dreaming out loud? I enjoy john’s comments and enjoy gauging what others think our prospects whould bring back even if we know a trade would never happen. I think we all enjoy trying to be GM’s!

    Like

  83. John i would trade 10 of our 11 top prospects and hope to keep either brown or drabek if both were under control for several years and start over. this would be at least 2 more rings i think even if we would be selling our soul. I’d be thrilled with just 1 of them!

    Like

  85. It seems like i’m the minority but i’m not thrilled about giving up much for peavey because his #’s in petco are much better than on the road and would be even a little worse in CBP. remember Eaton who seemed avg. and turned out to be awful? Peavey looks above avg. and might wind up being only avg. w/ us.

    Like

  86. Brown and Drabek are the only two guys I’d hold out of most conversations; as others have pointed out, if including them gets me Halladay or Webb, that’s a different story.

    Taylor and Carrasco are probably the next two guys I’d want to protect, but unless a trade partner wanted Victorino and Happ (and I’d have to think hard about moving either of them), I have to believe that both would be targets.

    Agree that Marson, Donald and Mayberry are all value pieces that we could deal without too much rending of garments. I’d probably put Worley and Bastardo in the same boat; it’s arguable that we’d be selling high on either/both of them.

    The point is that the Phils have a lot to offer teams, and so long as Brown and Drabek are protected, they can deal away top-10 type guys without gutting the system.

    Like

  87. They should definitely think about Sheet, but my personal ideal is Clay Buchholz… give them Marson and Bastardo and let’s have some fun. dpw

    Like

  89. In fact, as a complete guess, I would think the conversation would start somewhere around Marson/Donald and Drabek for Buchholz, which I would do instantly…

    Like

  90. Sorry but can someone tell me or direct me to where I could find out about Wagner Mateo, they are reporting he is getting a 4 million dollar offer. He is 16 years old.

    Like

  92. Just watched Scott Proefrock on DNL and he said that there wouldnt be an issue with 4 lefties in the rotation (assuming myers opts to have surgery or is rested for an extended period of time) and said that of the four AAA candidates (Kendrick, Carrasco, Carpenter or BAstardo)…he wouldnt be surprised if one of them got the call FWIW…in my opinion i would pray to the heavens its not Kendrick or Carpenter, both are mediocre pitchers i know KK has 21 wins or whatever in the majors but his peripherals are bad in the big leagues and guys figured out his one pitch and he has yet to develop adequate secondary stuff. They also brought up Vance Worley as a potential stopgap…I just hope its Carrasco or Bastardo who gets the shot

    Like

  93. My top 5:
    1)Kyle Drabek- near future ace with great bloodlines.
    2)Dom Brown- speed, power, average, defense. Ibanez replacement in 3 years.
    3)Lou Marson- Catchers seem to fizzle as prospects but I like his athleticism, his arm and his hitting potential despite his current struggles at LHV.
    4)Antonio Bastardo- Maybe I’m buying the hype but he’s breaking out at the right time at the age of 23.
    5)Vance Worley- Poise and consistency are huge attributes for a pitcher who also has above average speed and control. Impressive start to his pro career.
    Just off the list: Carrasco and Donald

    Like

  94. Great discussion. Drabek is the only untouchable to me. I wouldn’t trade Dom Brown AND Michael Taylor and I wouldn’t trade either of them for anything less than a prominent pitcher. However, you have to realize that Carasco, Donald and Carpenter could be a trade package being offered by the Phils and that won’t get you Peavy or someone of that ilk and with Myers leaving after this year, we need a legit #2 for next year so why not get him now. I might have to offer Carasco, Taylor and a 3rd guy like Carpenter or Kendrick for a Peavy or maybe Bedard or some other under 30 years old really good pitcher plus a right handed bat off the bench. I’m thinking Seattle….

    Like

  95. I said this a couple weeks ago and I still say it. The Phils Have a plan.The regulars – Taylor for Werth and Brown for Ibanez -so they are untouchable – The pitchers – This Year- Hamels/Myers/Blantn/Moyer/Happ – Next Year Hamels/ Blanton/Happ/Moyer/ Carrasco or worley or stutes or Bastardo or Drabek. In 2011 it will be Hamels/ Happ/ maybe Blanton ( I do not know his contract) and the 4 and 5 will be filled out by Carrasco or worley or stutes or Bastardo or Drabek. NOw with the Myers injury they will move one of the higher level guys a little more quickly or trade. So I think Donald, Marson, D’Arnaud could be gone. They are not needed. Ruiz has 3-6 years left, Utley and Rollins will be here till hell freezes over. The Phils have to lower payroll in 2010 and 2011. Maybe not lower it but those that are aging and making good money will be let go – Kind of Like Football contracts.

    Unless a trade is made I see Bastardo getting the nod for Myers. I am in the minority. 4 lefthanders in the rotation – who cares – If they get people out that is what counts. If they trade anybody for Marquis or similar I would be very upset. I think Oswalt may be close to done, Sheets is looking at next year, Pedro should be left at home.

    If I got off the minor league topic PP sorry. Luv your site and visit many time a day

    Like

  97. 1. Pat Combs
    2. Scott Service
    3. Jeff Jackson
    4. Brad Baisley
    5. Ryan Brennan

    or
    Drebeck
    Brown
    Taylor
    Knapp
    Bastardo – small and should be back end bullpen

    Like

  99. Clearwater
    Player IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA
    Drabek (W, 4-1) 9.0 5 0 0 1 7 0 2.48

    complete game shutout

    Like

  101. I wouldn’t trade any of them to be honest! We just won the WS, use what we have in the minors for at least this year. The guys that they can use are not THAT bad. Some may even surprise you. Why raise payroll? Pray a guy waives his no trade? Give away possibly someone who can help us for years for less? I am not about that. I know I am the minority and not the majority, but I would rather see what Carrasco, Bastardo, Carpenter and others can do. While keeping the Brown’s, Taylor’s (both need to get called up) and many many more guys. Times yours!

    Like

  102. as much as i love marson, ruiz is playing amazing. his defense is great and he is hitting really well. putting him into perspective, this is a guy who hit .300+ both season (over 200 games) in AAA. so this guy can play. he shouldn’t be going anywhere fore a few seasons. and with d’arnaud and valle a few years away, marson might be expendable for the right deal. i wouldn’t give him up for a rent a player like bedard, but i would give him up for bedard if bedard would sign an extension as a part of the deal.

    Like

  103. when are they going to move up Drabek already. what does he have to do pitch a no hitter? his stats dwarf every pitcher in the FSL. Enough already. Call up Carpenter or Bastardo or Carrasco and move up Worley to LHV and Drabek to Reading. While you’re there move up Brown. his OPS is around 1.000

    Like

  104. They are taking it slow with Drabek because he is just coming back from tommy john surgery. Also I know I saw someone say it here before and it made sense, keep drabek and dom brown in FSL until the All Star break let them play half a season there and then move them up after cuz well there is no place for brown in the majors now anyway(so no point in trying to move him too fast) likewise with drabek he isnt going to be pitching for us this year either so no point in making him jump so fast, let both of them build up their confidence, let them dominate for another month or so and make sure they are ready

    Like

  106. Taylor is now tied for first in RBI’s, tied for second in homers and third in batting average in th Eastern League. Could be starting in the majors for some teams.

    Like

  108. Happ is finally not a prospect and is where he should of been two years ago had the phils not fell in luv with Eaton and Garcia. They will state how much he improved BULL .He used only his fastball against the Yanks and that hasnt changed much.
    To make a point FA=Player aquired by trade. Signing Eaton and Garcia not only cost mils and lost many games but ook away playing time from Happ and theoretically other players,
    So going outside the organization should be a last resort. The more you invest in a player the more undeserved chances he may get thus decisions become more “not on the field matters” Therefore if a trade is made I like as short a commitment as possible (Penny e.g) If the player warrants more years so be it Hell i need to go to bed
    and dream I am Micheal Taylor

    Like

  109. Speaking of Taylor, he made the BA Hot Sheet this week.

    “Why He’s Here: .382/.382/.676 (13-for-34), 2 2B, 1 3B, 2 HR, 8 RBIs, 2 SB
    The Scoop: Any concerns about Taylor’s bat coming out of Stanford have been pretty well answered, as Taylor has hit .320 or better in each of his three full-season stops. At Stanford, Taylor didn’t use his legs much in his swing, but he’s figured out how to make that adjustment in the pros. That explains why he’s hitting more home runs now than he did in college with a metal bat.”

    Like

  110. PP Fan –
    Why would you trade Marson for Bedard even if he does sign an extension? Bedard is 31 next year. He had one great year but still has a 1.3 career WHIP. I really don’t get why people are so high on a pitcher that has one really good year and has shown signs of wear and tear.

    IMHO the only pitchers worth getting are Oswalt, Peavy and Halladay. The Phillies really need a top tier starter and these three are able to fit that bill. Each has a career WHIP of 1.2 or lower which is better than Bedard. They are also all right handed pitchers which is another plus in my book.

    Like

  111. This is off-topic, but does anyone know if Bedard is still living in his parent’s basement?

    Like

  112. Michael Taylor is tied for second in 3b’s, 8th in steals and first in Slugging.

    Just to let you all know.

    Like

  113. i give the edge to taylor simply because he,s righthanded. i doulbt both taylor and brown will make it, increedible odds. another reason they are not moving who we want them to move is not to expose anyone to prying eyes. haren is the best righty in the nl. i want bastardo here. im sure theyll accomadate me.

    Like

  114. My top 5 would be:

    1 Kyle Drabek
    2 Dominic Brown
    3 Michael Taylor
    4 Travis D-Arnaud
    5 Antonio Bastardo

    I didn’t list any of the 2008 draft picks since they can’t be traded yet. However, first that deadline passes and if we still haven’t traded for a SP, I would place Jason Knapp with a honorable mention going to Van Worley.

    Like

  115. john don’t understand not moving because of pryingeyes? I just think the reason is the phillies are just not going to rush them, because there is not a need right now, but both could be ready by mid july.

    Like

  116. You know what confuses me. I have seen several lists of pitchers that could be traded this season that include the name Brandon Webb and not once has a Philly phan that I have seen mentioned him as even someone to hope for.

    If Brandon Webb is even in the general vicinity of the trading block I would be offering anyone except Dom Brown in a deal for him. Even Drabek. If we could get Brandon Webb I would give up Drabek, Stutes and Bastardo.

    And I think the world of Drabek.

    As for untouchables, I guess that Dom brown would be the only one on my list. However there are positions where we have two prospects and we need to keep one.

    Examples

    At catcher, we need to keep either Marson or D’Arnaud
    In the OF we need to keep either Mayberry or Taylor

    Like

  117. 1. Dominic Brown
    2. Michael Taylor
    3. Kyle Drabek
    4. Carlos Carrasco
    5. Travis D’Ardaud

    Bastardo + Donald OR Marson + PTBNL for Erik Bedard

    Like

  118. 1. Kyle Drabek
    2. Mchael Taylor
    3. Dominic Brown
    4. Carlos Carrasco
    5. Antonio Bastardo

    Jason Donald is blocked and I don’t think Marson can beat out Carlos Ruiz.

    Like

  120. “You know what confuses me. I have seen several lists of pitchers that could be traded this season that include the name Brandon Webb and not once has a Philly phan that I have seen mentioned him as even someone to hope for.

    If Brandon Webb is even in the general vicinity of the trading block I would be offering anyone except Dom Brown in a deal for him. Even Drabek. If we could get Brandon Webb I would give up Drabek, Stutes and Bastardo.”

    Brandon Webb’s health reports are such that I would not be terribly interested in acquiring him.

    Like

  121. mikemike what i meant was a long time policy of mlb clubs is build up players increasing their trade value if you expose them it can weaken their value. the mets are famous for this. im still wondering why everyone seems to have brown rated over taylor. because ba says so. their stats are nearly identical and i know hardly anyone here has ever seen either one play. taylor is right handed increasing his value on this team and hes a year further along. just wondering.

    Like

  122. I’ve seen both play and I prefer taylor’s skillset and prowess to brown’s.

    I’m of the mindset that BA picks the longshots to make the magazine sub worth paying for. They name the player, everyone says “wow, really? i need to read more on that” and pay for the subscription. Just my theory.

    Like

  123. ryan good post. i know rickey b. sees alot of taylor but it,d be good to hear from people who like you have actually seen either or both of them. btw ba imo always has to be taken with a grain of salt. money and ego,s.

    Like

  124. “im still wondering why everyone seems to have brown rated over taylor. because ba says so. their stats are nearly identical”

    Because Taylor is only 1 year further along, but 2 years older than Brown. Also, Brown is the better base stealer and projects as a better defender, almost CF quality.

    Like

  125. Nedualcaz-I was very surprised to read that you would trade marson/donald drabek for buckholtz and I’m the guy who always throws clay out there as a guy i’d like to acquire, but this seems to be way too much. What is it about clay that makes you think he will be better than drabek? I think of them as comps. Is it because clay is more ready and we’d have to throw in two future starters to get the MLB read guy? This package is way better than the whitesox offer for peavey and I think better than what the mets gave for santanna because they had a couple of lower level guys like mulvey and didn’t have a potential stud like drabek in the deal. I don’t think you give up this much for another minor leaguer. I’d love to see them together in a couple of years and we have plenty of other prospects to trade

    Like

  126. I was look at Werth tonight so far he looks terrible. He is barely getting his bat on the ball. The Phils might have to start thinking platoon with Taylor soon rather than later. An eventual platoon of Taylor and Mayberry sounds like a nice breakin thing.

    Like

  127. Also, Brown has shown better plate discipline, drawing more walks than Taylor, which is a pretty good indicator of future success.

    Like

  128. Platoon of Mayberry and Taylor? They both bat righty. What kind of platoon would that be?

    Like

  130. i never say i told you so but last year it seemed all i read here was howard will never sign or he is a flash in the pan and i wrote every day he is the greatest 1st baseman in phillies history and a future hof,er and i would turn in my phillies fandom if they ever did lose him. the guy is unbelievable.

    Like

  131. john from northeast philly: I’ve seen Taylor play 5 or 6 times and Brown twice this year. Both are special athletes. Brown’s bat is so quick and whip-like while Taylor is a thinking hitter and adjusts his swing accordingly based on circumstances. Taylor’s arm is strong but was not always accurate while Brown just threw out a guy trying to stretch a single into a double against the Port St. Lucie Mets that I am listening to. Taylor loves to charge line drives and made a shoe string catch and a trap in right on two balls at one of the games that I was in attendence while I saw Brown take a bad route to a line drive that got by him in right. For me I’ll take Taylor over Brown. Anyone hitting .475 with runners in scoring position even at AA is someone who will be a clutch player. But Brown has so much upside he will only get even better. Both are can’t miss major league prospects.

    Like

  132. btw nw werth is driving me nuts too. rickey good scouting it seems like taylor is the better defensive of but not by much. as far as stolen bases and walks id like to see the separation statisically. anybody else actually SEEN taylor or brown.

    Like

  133. pp if its possible could we get an ‘ around the system ” positio players like you did with the rotation. that was really informative.

    Like

  134. sorry I was thinking Taylor was left handed my mistake.
    I will know better when he gets to Philly.

    Like

  135. At any rate I think you can not trade Taylor at this point off his performance and Werths problems

    Like

  136. John-

    Brown in 2008: 64 BB / 72 K
    Taylor in 2008: 50 BB / 89 K

    That’s why Brown has better plate discipline. More walks, less K’s.

    Like

  137. re: Brown’s whiplike swing – I think this can get him in trouble. He has a very long swing, so if his timing gets off it can be a nightmare. Luckily there hasn’t been much of that at all this season.

    I’ll admit that Brown may have a little more god-given talent, but I’ll take Taylor’s talent + intelligence (listen to some of his interviews on the r-phils site) – he’s a complete package.

    Like

  138. marky mark, you basically have answered your own question. In my opinion, Buchholz is a major league ready ace, much like that of a Peavy, Oswalt, or Bedard, except he is cost controlled and unable to hit free agency for another 5 years. This makes Buchholz much more valuable a commodity than any of the other pitchers I mentioned. All three pitchers have wear and tear, are entering the backside of their peak years, and are either free agents to be or signed to a bad contract. That is why Buchholz, while not “proven” at the major league level, is more valuable than any of those pitchers for me. Also, you answered your compensation question without me as well. It just makes sense that if everything goes right for Drabek, he will basically become a Buchholz. So, I think we would have to offer a future Buchholz (Drabek) in addition to another projected regular (Marson/Donald) to acquire the real Buchholz because of the uncertainty still involved in Drabek’s future. Why would the Sox trade one pitcher straight up for another whom they can only hope will be as good as the man they just traded? That was my thinking… Thanks for making some intelligent, insightful comments.

    Like

  139. Having thought about this for a few days, and having looked at the statistics of the the Phils own minor league players and the players that they might be able to acquire, I think Amaro is absolutely right in trying to solve this Myers situation, at least initially, through the farm system. Now, something odd and interesting might come along, like a trade for Clay Buchholz (they’d have to at least think about that if the price is reasonable) or salary dump deal where Houston asks the Phils to take Oswalt off their hands for some moderate level talents (like, for example, Donald and Carpenter).

    But aside from that, if I’m Ruben Amaro I’m thinking to myself that the years of hard work and patience in developing the system are really about to pay off, so why should I blow it on an expensive guy who may not want to be or stay in Philadelphia? In such a short time, the Phils are going to be positively loaded with major league ready players. Bastardo and Mayberry are up, Marson and Donald are close (and Carpenter may be too), Carrasco is probably closer than he appears to be, and not too far down the line, Taylor, Brown, Worley and Drabek will be coming and Stutes may not be that far behind. I also have not written Savery off altogether either. Honestly, I think Michael Taylor could be a productive major leaguer right now and he seems to have easily risen to the challenge of AA pitching (don’t be surprised if he and Brown are advanced a level at the same time).

    Even though it’s a bit unorthodox (because he lacks experience and because it will result in a 4th lefty in the big league rotation), I think Amaro called up the right guy to Philly. If he doesn’t pan out, the team can try Carpenter or Worley (Kendrick needs to stay down and finish the transition he was not allowed to make as a result of his premature, but understandable, promotion in 2007).

    Like

  140. Reggie Taylor Says:
    John-
    Brown in 2008: 64 BB / 72 K
    Taylor in 2008: 50 BB / 89 K
    That’s why Brown has better plate discipline. More walks, less K’s.
    Good stats but if you factor in Tarlor’s transition “month from hell” at Clearwater things get a lot closer. I’ll take both

    Like

  141. “Catch 22 f/k/a H Man Says:
    May 30, 2009 at 10:55 pm
    I think Amaro is absolutely right in trying to solve this Myers situation, at least initially, through the farm system. Now, something odd and interesting might come along, like a trade for Clay Buchholz (they’d have to at least think about that if the price is reasonable) or salary dump deal where Houston asks the Phils to take Oswalt off their hands for some moderate level talents (like, for example, Donald and Carpenter). ”

    I agree that it was the right call to start with promotions from the minors, but while a rotation following Hamels that includes Blanton, Moyer, Happ and Bastardo could still potentially do well- It realy requires an honest assessment. Can you ride those 4 other guys to the world series again? There isn’t a non-phillies fan in the world who would agree. Oswalt in a salary dump deal? Bucholz in a reaonable deal? We’re not talking about trading for Joe Blanton here, and especially in Oswalt’s case- we’re talking about adding the best right handed starter in this town since Curt Schilling. A deal can be made for a top starter – its gonna hurt, but its not going to lay the system to waste. I’m all for it.

    Like

  142. “john from philly.ne Says:
    May 30, 2009 at 7:29 pm
    anybody else actually SEEN taylor or brown.”

    I have- I like Brown alot- he’s a better athlete, perhaps a bit more ‘exciting’ , he projects to be everything people say, but Taylor is there- no projection needed. His transformation since Williamsport was incredible. He’s powerful and relatively short with his stroke- he just looks every bit the hitting prospect that he’s become.

    Like

  144. Woke up this moring with a this thought. Would anybody be favor of trading Werth and prospect for that starting pitcher we are looking for and brining Taylor up to handle RF? Does a paclage of say Werth and Marson/Donald get you Oswalt

    Also I like Bastardo getting the first shot. There is much talk about 4 lefties in the rotation but as I see it if they get the hitters out who cares.

    Like

  145. 1flyfan – I cannot believe you mentioned the Werth trade. I was thinking that myself. However, the more I thought about it, the more I concluded that this is also a very dangerous way to proceed, at least for this year. They are already thin with righty bats in the line-up and, even though he is slumping right now, Werth is a very, very good and multi-talented player. They can’t trade their no. 5 hitter and one righty power bat in the middle of the line-up while they take a chance on some kid from AA, as good as that kid may ultimately end up becoming. In solving one problem, they create another one. I don’t think it works.

    Like

  146. Catch 22 – Just throwing it our there. It gets Taylor to the bigs although a little early. He may be a passable right handed bat and what it really does is free up some cash for a decent starter and we keep more of our farm system in check. The Phils have to be at their max in spending. If Taylor can not handle the jump then deal another prospect for a Derosa or similar.

    Like

  147. Werth, donald and marson, for oswalt could blow up in your face, no marson and I would think about it, but do you believe Taylor is ready for starting in rf for a contender, It’s different if you are saying he would be starting for a pittsburg or washington who are going no where. Why put that pressure on that kid now.

    Like

  148. Why is worth so untouchable? It isnt that he is hitting the cover off the ball. The fact is he isnt hitting the cover period.
    He makes great plays then looks like me was napping on another play. If you dont give Taylor a chance then you are automatically right. I am not saying to shot anyone just keep an open mind and dont be afraid of every change. BTW I wouldn’t call Taylor a kid. Good luck to Bastardo.

    Like

  150. Another thought : A player either has the stomach for the game or he doesnt and will fold at some amount of pressure.
    Some pitchers are fine until the game is on the line. And we all know about guys who cant hit with runners on. Would any amout of care saved Adam Eaton. Of cource not.
    Baseball courage should be the sixth tool. Taylor seems to have that. I believe a player who has a setback and fold would of folded somewhere along the line.
    BTW Clay’s major league stats dont warm my soul any

    Like

  151. Werth was voted by managers as the most underrated player in the league. Now I can understand why he was in the running. Let’s go out and trade J-dub because we think that a player could, just maybe, perform well enough to warrant letting a player who hit 20 hrs in 400 at bats last year go. He also had a 20-1 success rate in stealing bases. Just not good enough.

    I wouldn’t mind promoting Taylor on merit and seeing what he does when he spells Werth for a game or two, but Werth is a very good player and will help this team.

    Like

  152. great to see bastardo get a shot. lets hope he makes the most of it. aside from that they still need another pither, unless bastardo is unbelievable. which imo he could be. assuming they make the playoffs is where theyll need another lights out guy. watch for moyer to use that big hook he unvieled last start alot today. it may save his slot.

    Like

  153. I dont know what Werth’s problem is? But the reasons you give BLUES make him more valued as a trade piece than prospects. He looks incredibly bad sometimes more lately.
    I am with you and a slow breakin probably later but Werth has got to snap out of it

    Like

  154. I can’t understand why people are down on Werth! It just seems like some people on here just need someone to rag on. He’s in a slump- it happens. Even so he’s a plus defender in right with a good arm, hes a base-stealing threat, and with his slump his OPS is still over .800

    20-20 guys don’t just fall out of the sky.

    Like

  155. Skunky, that is too logical. You see, if we extrapolate Werth’s past two weeks over the course of an entire season, he would be useless garbage. Thus, he is useless garbage…

    Like

  156. Glad to see Bastardo get a shot as well…

    I’m beginning to warm up to the idea of trading Marson – I don’t know if Ruiz’s success this season will be permanent, but his success has led me to believe we can wait.

    But I think Peavy’s not going to come here because he doesn’t want to be here and has a no trade clause; and why are we talking about Bedard – he just doesn’t fit. I know he pitches decently, but he’s been a cancer in that club house. And I’ll say if there is anything the Phils try to assemble it’s good chemistry.

    So build a trade around Marson. There are plenty of second tier prospects that we have that we can add to the equation… and build something for a Cliff Lee or Zach Duke. Dang, all lefties…

    I just don’t think the Phils have to give up more than one position player and two 2nd tier pitchers to get something of value. It’s going to be a buyer’s market – the economy means for less popular teams they’re going to want cheap talent and to purge payroll… If Amaro is patient it will play out in his favor.

    Like

  157. Throw-in Sandberg.

    You are right about what you say. Amaro should be patient and judicious in how he uses his resources. He has young players that are starting to come through. If he can use them, in the long run, he will probably be much better off. He has some time, both to see what’s out there and also to see if his farmhands can hack it.

    I don’t mind giving up one of the second tier prospects for a one year pitcher (Donald or Marson [not both] – for Penny), but, unless they get a stud pitcher who will be there for many years, it’s not worth sacrificing the hot young prospects that are on the verge of making the team.

    Fortunately, I get a growing sense that Amaro is analyzing this carefully and, I believe, properly. He wants to win another WS, but he also wants the team to keep its young players. Again, I also think Amaro pulled the right string in bring up Bastardo. My impression of our GM continues to grow. We’ll see if I feel the same way after the end of July, but, for now, I’m encouraged. Of course, if we trade Bastardo and Taylor for Bedard, I reserve my right to change course.

    Like

  158. One other thing. Folks, Werth can play. He’s in a slump. It happens. But he is a legit. 4-5 tool player and, when he gets hot (and he will), he can almost carry the team. Put your momentary frustrations about him aside and be realistic. They need this guy, particularly this year.

    Like

  159. one thing about trading marson. besides marson and donalds potential and i think that both will be very good major leagers you must remember ruizs injury earlier this year. i like chooch and have no problems with him as our catcher but if he goes down we need marson. coste obviously is not an every day catcher and is d,arnaud? who knows. i keep marson and donald unless the offer is ridiculous like haren peavy maybe oswalt cain. c. young i give less. lets hope bastardo is the real deal and move worley up to aaa. actually its not a well kept secret that the eastern league is superior to aaa so maybe worley really is ready now without moving thru aaa.

    Like

  160. Okay I started a Werth posting bonanza. Sorry PP it is not one of our minor league players but it could affect one. I like Werth, even during this slump. MY wife, sister and many female friends all think he is a HOF. I think he will come out of his funk and have a great/ good year. My thought is just that if you can package this valuable commodity (sorry of spelled wrong) and 1 prospect for a decent pitcher is that better then trading 3 decent prospects for that pitcher.

    In my proposed trade above Marson/Donald was one or the other not both.

    Another thing is that there are alot- okay some- position players that skip AAA. I have not seen Taylor play. I see his stats, read this site and others, and players that can control the strike zone and not K that much can make the jump Parra in Arizona is the latest and we have enough stud is the bigs to take pressure off Taylor. Enjoy the work week everybody

    1 more… Big Gus is rakingi in AA. I know not prospect but he is really raking

    Like

  161. 1. Brown
    2. Drabek
    3. Taylor
    4. Knapp
    5. Donald

    I am excited about the prospects in the system now, most at the lower levels. Obviously, it has been a while since we had 2 outfield prospects like Brown and Taylor. Drabek seems to have shot to the top of the pitching chart with Knapp having the potential to be a closer down the line. Donald is the only infield option in the system at this point. I don’t think we could afford to give him up.
    The way I see it is Marson and Carrasco are highly regarded guys who we could lose. With Ruiz playing well and Carrasco appearing to back up the “soft” label, I think Marson and Carrasco would not hurt too much.

    Like

Comments are closed.