Open Discussion: Week of February 13, 2022

Day 75 of Mister Manfred’s lockout.  The commissioner made a statement on Thursday. The two sides met Saturday.  They are no closer to an agreement than they were in December.   

Thursday, Manfred said that MLB was making a substantive offer to the players. He also said that he was optimistic that spring training would open on time.  Saturday, the owners made an offer that did nothing to move the sides closer to an agreement.


Fortunately, there will be about 50 more players at the Complex this week for a minicamp.  We’ll be stationed around the perimeter for a glimpse of the baseball ativities.  Check-in and physicals will likely push such activities back to mid-week.

The Phillies announced the signing of Yairo Munoz to an minor league contract.  He’s a 27-year-old right-handed batter who plays third base, shortstop, and the outfield.  He’ll provide depth at Lehigh Valley.  He has zero options left.

This is the courtesy thread for comments and discussion about the Phillies and other BASEBALL topics.

Rosters and Stuff

Key Dates:

  • December 1, 2021: CBA expires
  • December 2, 2021: Manfred locks out players
  • TBA: Minor League spring training reporting date (probably mid-to-late February)
  • April 5, 2022: Lehigh Valley season opener at home v. Columbus
  • April 8, 2022:  Clearwater season opener at home v. Fort Myers
  • April 8, 2022:  Jersey Shore season opener at home v. Aberdeen
  • April 8, 2022:  Reading season opener at home v. Somerset


2/01/2022 – 3B Yairo Munoz assigned to Lehigh Valley
2/01/2022 – Phillies signed FA 3B Yairo Munoz to an MiLB contract

79 thoughts on “Open Discussion: Week of February 13, 2022

    1. I checked the transactions on his MiLB page. I know FanGraphs says he has an option left. But, they have made mistakes in the past.

      #3 15-Apr-19 St. Louis optioned SS Yairo Munoz to Memphis
      #3 7-Apr-19 St. Louis optioned SS Yairo Munoz to Memphis
      #2 16-Apr-18 St. Louis optioned SS Yairo Munoz to Memphis
      #1 13-Mar-17 Oakland optioned SS Yairo Munoz to Nashville

      1. I think all of that just counts as one option [year] (any year in which a player on the 40-man is sent to minors other than for rehab purposes)?

        1. No. He was optioned 4 times. #1 was in 2017, #2 was in 2018, and twice in #3 on the 7th and 15th of April in 2019. Four total options, 3 option years.

  1. Is this the same Munoz who left the Cardinals in the middle of the night without saying anything to fly home to the D.R.? I would have issues..

    1. Yes……complained of a hamstring problem in spring training 2020 and left for the DR before the MRI

  2. Keith Law has his Phillies top 20
    1. Bryson Stott, SS (Top 100 Ranking: No. 66)
    2. Mick Abel, RHP (Top 100 Ranking: No. 91)
    3. Andrew Painter, RHP
    4. Matt Vierling, OF
    5. Johan Rojas, OF
    6. Luis Garcia, SS
    7. Logan O’Hoppe, C
    8. Hans Crouse, RHP
    9. Simon Muzziotti, OF
    10. Jhailyn Ortiz, OF
    11. Ethan Wilson, OF
    12. Erik Miller, LHP
    13. Francisco Morales, RHP
    14. Rickardo Perez, C
    15. Cristian Hernandez, RHP
    16. Adonis Medina, RHP
    17. Cristopher Sánchez, P
    18. Griff McGarry, RHP
    19. Casey Martin, SS
    20. Jamari Baylor, SS/2B

    He lists Rojas as the sleeper

    1. Adonis Medina is four years younger than I am, but he’s been a prospect since I was in college. I have a wife, kids, and a house now lol

      Hoping Ortiz builds off his improvement from last year.

    2. KLaw has Casey Martin at 19…I have him around mid-20s.
      If they stay healthy, I think Martin and Morales will break-out in a good way this season.

  3. Does anyone know if there a way to easily find links to things such as a list of the prospect profiles Jim that you have just created? On a marginally-related item, I am not sure I am technically capable, but I don’t mind taking the time to try and create the code to have the headers at the top of the website work to link to the updated info…. assuming that they don’t work now.

  4. Who will be our O’Hoppe this year? He and partially Ortiz, and certainly Vierling and Williams, broke through last year. Who this year? Miller time? Morales? Any bats?

    1. Murray, I think most likely are Rojas, Luis Garcia, Painter, and McGarry possibly Miller. Brito is a sleeper if he bounces back from his medical emergency – he was doing so good beforehand. Andrew Baker could surprise and Billy Sullivan could quickly pitch his way to the show as a shutdown reliever.

  5. Murray, I have hopes for Luis Garcia, and I also think that Ethan Wilson and Jordan Viars show that they are definite prospects to watch. KLaw isn’t that high on Viars, but, regardless, I am.

    1. matt13….IMO, do not think KLaw has seen enough of Viars to make a good evaluation. Normally he does not rate many with high rankings under 19-years old, and in Viars’ case with less than 75 PAs in the FSL…he probably wants to see more and at a higher level vs better pitching.
      We all know the capabilities of the young man…..KLaw has to see over a longer period of time..

    1. Ockimey had a 40% K rate in AAA last year and Hall looks to be the better fielder so not sure Ockimey is replacing Hall but it’s always good to have competition.

      1. Just a guess…..but I think now Hall wants to go out on his own and see if he can obtain a better opportunity with another club.
        I think the Phillies owe him that much
        Phillies have not given him much of chance…they didn’t even have him at the alternate site in 2020 and that really slowed any development he was making, and he could probably read the writing on the wall by then..

          1. That may be the case, under Rule 9…formerly Rule 55, come Nov, right after the WS is completed, he would have spent 7 seasons with the Phillies, however, Phillies can release him now if they so desire.
            If I were in his shoes, I would ask for the release to see if he can catch on with a team that will give him a better opportunity to reach the majors….not sure he ever gets that chance in Philadelphia..

    2. Yeah Neumann kid who played with my next door neighbor, who is still with twins triple a team

  6. i don’t know if it is legitimate for me to try to cut and paste this article or sections from it, but listed on currently is The Athletic citing a desire by MLB to have the power to unilaterally cut the number of MiLB players from the current 180 on the Domestic Reserve List down to a maximum of 150.

    1. It’s on MLBTR as well. I do think the initial cut downs were a good idea since too many people were in the minors that had no chance of ever playing in the show, but how far are they willing to go to save more money? I have no clue what type of money minor league teams generate, but these guys deserve a reasonable wage for all the time they put in, not 12k a year. The housing they’ll be getting now at least is a start. Obviously their voices aren’t heard much in the union-mlb negotiations.

    2. Eliminating another 30 minor league players per MLB team wipes out another entire level of the minor leagues. Which level is next to go? Probably High A since Low A teams are all owned by MLB teams. Another 30 cities/areas losing their minor league teams. How does more minor league contraction grow the sport?

      Manfred and his team continue to kill baseball. Hopefully MLBPA rejects this proposal.

      1. Not sure MLBPA has any leverage with minor league doings.
        It is a union of 1200 players…30 teams’ 40-man rosters.

      2. Oldie, If another level is “contracted”, It would most likely be the Complex League. The minor league affiliates are protected for another nine years based on the development contracts they signed for ten years last year.

        They could dump the formal Florida and Arizona Complex Leagues and replace them with training and less formal Tricky Leagues.

        1. Plus, the number of minor league players is not a part of the CBA. The association is not required to negotiate this. The association can simply decline to discuss and the topic goes away. The sides are not required to come to an agreement on this topic.

          1. Thanks for the clarification Jim. I am confused as to why MLB would include the request to lower the # of minor league players in their recent proposal to MLBPA if it is not part of the CBA. Hopefully the MLBPA simply declines to discuss it. I would hate to see more cities and fans lose more minor league teams.

  7. Phillies have 3 top 100 on Kiley McDaniel’s list

    66 Bryson Stott – no true impact ability, contributing league avg to slightly above offense and defense from the left side is massively valuable

    89 Mick Abel – He could rocket up this list if/when everything clicks, but prep pitchers usually need a year or two of pro ball to make adjustments in style and workload

    99 Johan Rojas – Rojas may have the most impressive physical tool grades in the minors leagues: a 70 runner, 70 defender in center field, a 60 arm, projecting for 55 maybe even 60 raw power, at least plus bat speed, and at least average contact skills.

  8. I’ve always seen Johan Rojas as a kid with a Juan Samuel offensive ceiling and Victor Robles defensive ceiling. Though, Catch used an Eric Davis comp a couple months ago, and I thought that was pretty accurate also.
    In any event, he’d have to be included for any Ramon Laureano deal (just like Alec Bohm would have to be a part of any deal for Matt Chapman).

    1. Johan Rojas’s future will be determined by his hit tool (so all of his hitting skills can evolve) and his plate discipline. But my goodness, he’s an electric athlete. When I saw him play in a televised ST game his skills jumped off the screen. There is an enormous gap between his floor and ceiling, but the physical skills are jaw dropping.

    2. Hinkie……in any trade with the As…they may elect to take CFers like Mickey M.or Adam Haseley…players already MLBers, and still with many controlled years…though Rojas has plenty of raw talent, he is still 2/3 years away, if he does make it.

      1. Romus … not saying Beane/Forst wouldn’t be into rehabbing a former first round pick. Just saying (IMO) Rojas has more the kind of value to match up with a younger stud like Ramon Laureano. Of course, Dombrowski would have to build a package around Rojas.

        1. Yeah Hinkie…..if Dave D goes for both Chapman and Laureano, then then there will be a pretty big prospect package going out West….and Rojas may very well be a key part of it.

  9. By the way, the Phillies are going to end up looking smart for not signing someone with FA compensation/lost draft pick(s) before the old CBA expired. It seems the one thing the parties agree upon is that the teams signing free agents should not be penalized if they are under the tax threshold (my guess is that teams losing free agents will still get compensatory picks, however, probably supplemental picks). So if the Phillies sign someone like Conforto, they probably won’t lose any picks. I’m still hoping for Schwarber. I think he would be magical on this team. The one bat that takes them from solid to scary.

  10. Jim, it looks like the Atlantic is reporting a 50 something squad of young players reporting to a mini camp this week instead of the pitchers and catchers reporting. are these some of the players that you have been seeing?

    1. Yes and no. Almost all of the players I saw early on were here for rehab. A couple of those may have reached the point where they are ready to increase their workload and the Minicamp will be their next step toward being healthy for opening day. Of those I’ve seen recently, there are more guys who are early reports for camp.

      Unless we can get a list of participants, It’ll take me a few days to identify who all is here. Today was check-in and physical day. I saw Logan O’Hoppe, Ethan Lindow (the beard confused me), Matthew Kroon, Micah Yonamine (bulked up), Lee Hao Yu, Alexeis Azuaje, Jean Cabrera (slimmer and younger-looking than I thought), Braden Zabrinsky, several more who move too fast for these old eyes, and I’m pretty sure Mick Abel.

  11. ooops, sorry I just read your info up above, noting the mini camp. how many have you seen so far?

  12. Ryan Zimmerman has retired. I’m good with this, he’s been a problem for the Phillies for a long time.

    1. Strong career and definitely got dinged by injuries towards the end of his prime. And 16 seasons with one franchise, a rare sight these days.

  13. So, today would be the day Pitchers and Catchers report. Does that mean that if Manfred doesn’t say anything, we are supposed to think that ST has not been delayed? And, if the season is supposed to start on March 31, and the players need a month, that is less than 2 weeks to make an agreement. Does anyone see that happening? I don’t.

    1. I would assume Manfred’s reference was to games. Just like Allen Iverson, I don’t think he cares about practice.

      1. To have the 5 to 6 week Spring Training they want before games start they have one week to come to an agreement.

  14. Juan Soto (and his agent Scott Boras) turned down 13 years, $350M from the Nationals. This is just crazy.

  15. I agree, Guru, and I also believe that this was leaked to an Ownership mouthpiece to let the public thin the players are being crazy. Not a chance that this was leaked by Boras.

    1. It doesn’t matter who leaked it, saying no to $350M is bananas. $350M would be the 3rd largest in baseball history.

      1. Hey, I wouldn’t have said no to this, but Boras is no dummy. He’s saying no because he thinks he can get more and perhaps he is correct especially given current inflation expectations. But it shows what a great deal the Braves got with Acuna, Jr.

        1. The more I think about this, the more I think he is saying no because Soto hits free agency after 3 more seasons and Boras probably wants Soto to test the open market, where he is likely to get his best deal.

          1. Rizzo and Lerner ….if they cannot or will not meet the Boras demands…..may just move Soto when he has 2 years left of control, to the highest bidder of prospects……they may have learned something from the Harper situation 4 years ago.

          2. There is no doubt that Boras wants to test the market. But Soto is still 3 years away, a lot can happen during that time i.e. Tim Lincecum. And not only that, $350M is not a lowball offer. To say no to this money is beyond words at this point.

            1. If anything, the Nats ownership got a good lessons leaned from Harper…so they moved Turner when they anticipated a magnitude of a LTC for him coming up, and still have Soto to deal with on the back-burner …..they may just move Soto also. Soto’s return could be enormous…teams like the Dodgers or Yankees would probably jump into that foray.

    2. Article I read was quoting Soto so not sure where it came from initially. But yes, expect Boras is looking to reset the top of the market with Soto in 3 years.

  16. Jim Bowden has stated that he thinks Soto will be the first 500mm contract player. So this first foray by Nationals is probably low ? even if 500 looks completely absurd – shouldn’t he average 35 per year ?

    1. RU…cannot see him obtaining no more than 10% better the AAV salary of Mike Trout….and most of that is inflated dollars over the last decade.
      Thru age 22…Soto is at approx. 18WAR
      Trout thru 22 was at approx. 28WAR

  17. I understand a major role of any farm director is to sell his prospects/system, but this is encouraging, nonetheless.
    Mattingly on Johan Rojas: “If there’s a better defensive center fielder in the Minor Leagues, I haven’t seen him.” Like I posted above, Rojas has Victor Robles defensive chops.

  18. Hinkie, I am hoping Rojas has a big season. Wouldn’t it be great if he’s our future CF? Of course, he may be part of a trade, but I hope not. Today’s CBA session lasted all of 15 minutes. They are really knocking themselves out getting a deal done! Seriously, 15 minutes on February 17, I am usually on the players’ side. But, come on, how about a counter proposal that has even a minimal chance of being accepted? The pool for the pre-Arb players is now even higher per the MLBPA offer, and about 80% would be Super Twos. That’s going nowhere. Likewise, the whole “Competitive Balance Tax” has nothing to do with competitive balance. It has everything to do with keeping salaries down. It’s so frustrating, and I apologize for venting here, but both sides need to be working harder at this.

    1. There’s still too much animosity at this point and both parties are looking to “stick it” to the other. Be ready for a shortened season and I wouldn’t be surprised if we lose months worth of games. The bad thing is that both parties will come out losers once all of this is resolved. Baseball’s popularity will decline even more, resulting in less money for all parties involved.

      1. Exactly – you hit the nail on the head. They keep collectively shooting themselves in the foot.

      2. The first rule of negotiations is no side gets serious until they start to feel economic pain…Were on the cusp of the owners to start to feel that pain. They have to decide if the money they lose in ST from tickets, concessions and media is enough to make a substantive offer… For the big dollar teams like the Yankees, Red Sox’s, Cubs and Dodgers it’s couch cushion money. But their only four of thirty teams. The other 20+ teams may push for a deal.. If there’s no deal by March 1st then the season will be delayed and were in for a long lockout because the owners have decided the economic pain of lost ST revenue is worth it and they now want the players to feel the pain of lost checks..

    2. matt … including Rojas in a deal for a CFer depends on the CFer coming back. If Dave Dombrowski is targeting Bryan Reynolds or Ramon Laureano, Rojas is practically a slam dunk to head out. If the Phillies POBO brings in Kevin Kiermairer, Bradley Zimmer, or (hopefully not) Lorenzo Cain, he won’t have to surrender Rojas.

  19. Gelb has a really interesting piece on Griff McGarry, which has left me trying really hard not to get too excited.

    1. Robin, I felt the same way after reading the article. And, I intend to keep being excited about him. The stuff is really great. Hoping the mental part continues to be there for him. We could use a bit of good fortune.

  20. MLBTR wrote that in order to have a full season, there must be an agreement by the end of this (February) month. If so, when the season begins, starters will be able to pitch 3-4 innings to start. That means the bullpen would be taxed right from the get go. High priced starters would be throwing only five innings for first month or even two.

    1. If that were to happen, the league would have to expand rosters for the first month or so to allow clubs to carry (at least) a couple of extra pitchers.
      BTW … it looks like next week is going to be make-or-break as far as getting an agreement done in time. Both sides seem committed to meeting daily, and I heard several owners may head to NY to take part. I can see something coming together by the end of this month, and then the league entering a crazy FA/trade period rush to beat the beginning of spring training. A lot of remaining FAs may take one year deals because of the rush, and try their luck next winter (when the FA class isn’t as strong as this year’s class).

  21. I simply can’t imagine how teams are going to sort through the free agents, minor league free agents, etc. which I think Jayson Stark pegged at above 200++. Never mind trades/ trades that were begun before the lockout and then stopped. Arbitration and rule 5 draft ? Can there be some truth to front offices continuing to negotiate trades during the lockout ? I believe we are in for an unprecedented flurry of transactions. But Hinkie makes a great point about 1 year deals !

  22. So March 5th is the latest hopeful date for ST……two weeks from now, why do I think that is wishful thinking..

    1. Phillies #24 (same as 2021)
      “The industry was prepared for farm system carnage in Philly when Dave Dombrowski took over, considering how he’s used his farm to build contenders in other cities. He may have turned over a new leaf, with Spencer Howard the only top-tier prospects sent packing via trade in Dombrowski’s first season.

      The Phils have dipped into the riskiest part of the draft pool with their last two first-round picks, prep right-handers Mick Abel and Andrew Painter, with solid early returns. Shortstop Bryson Stott should be ready to take over in the big leagues at some point in 2022 and Johan Rojas is the exciting, emerging talent to keep an eye on. With Philadelphia behind the Braves and Mets in 2022 NL East projections, I’m still bracing for farm system carnage here.”

      other divisional clubs:
      Marlins #4 (down 2 spots from last year)
      Mets #18 (#25 in 2021)
      Nationals #22 (dead last a year ago)
      Braves #27 (#13 last year)

  23. However this CBA eventually gets agreed to will impact us more than most teams. Since Middleton is not going over the Luxury Tax, at least has not given any indication that I have taken to mean he will, that may impact our farm system in a big way. I don’t want to trade any of Stott, Able, Rojas or Painter, and I also know that is hard to reconcile with my wanting to make the Playoffs now. But, I would like to finally have some homegrown star level talent, and trading those 4 guys hurts our chances of that happening. I want the LT to go up enough that we can fill the spots we need without trading our top talent. Or, JM can go over whatever it is, because the penalties are not much at all. I can only hope.

    1. matt13……I have no doubt the Lux Tax, or CAP as the MLBPA likes to call it, …will go up…..but by what percent is anyone’s guess.
      Most owners want a ‘hard cap’, similar to the NFL, NHL, not sure what the NBA does……but MLBPA opposes that concept, because it restricts salaries.

  24. I don’t think they should be restricted, Romus, especially when it takes 6 years to get to FA. But, I am not an owner. And, I think that a team that doesn’t spend to a certain floor, whatever that # is, shouldn’t get revenue sharing. The Pirates $50M should not be rewarded. There is no reason for us to have not exceeded it except for JM wanting to toe the company line. Even a $10M increase and not giving up a 2d Rd pick helps us.

Comments are closed.