Open Discussion: Week of December 9th

Baseball’s winter meetings have begun.  Sunday, there was a full slate of meetings and events starting with a Job Fair that began at 7:00 AM and ran all day.  I was surprised to learn that the winter meetings are essentially an MiLB event.  Between 300-400 people will find jobs with minor league affiliates.  Industry and trade shows target MiLB leagues and organizations who negotiate their own deals free from MLB oversight.  During the next three days, every minor league has at least one meeting scheduled.  None of the schedules I’ve seen have anything listed specifically for MLB teams.  Maybe they have their own separate, secret schedule?

On the home front, the Phillies opened the week by severing ties with Cesar Hernandez and Maikel Franco when they decided to not tender contracts.  A couple days later, they signed FA RHP Zack Wheeler to a six-figure contract.  (I thought we were done with these “k” Zacks.)  We also learned from a couple of local beat writers that the Phillies will not go over the tax threshold.  So, of course, the national guys who would certainly know more than the guys who cover the Phillies on a daily basis are still predicting that the Phillies are still in on the big ticket guys.  #agentpimps

The Phillies have signed Paul Buchheit as their new head athletic trainer.  He previously worked for the Red Sox.  They also signed a new minor league pitching coach -Pat Robles.  He was hired away from McCook CC where he was their pitching coach.  He had great success getting pitchers signed at D1 schools.

This week marks the anniversary of the Phillies signing Andrew McCutchen during the winter meetings.  A lot has been written regarding the Phillies and their proximity to the tax threshold (they are currently under by about $19.4M).  Regardless of what anyone thinks about the “cap’, the Phillies rotation, and their bullpen, the Phillies currently have just FOUR infielders on their 40-man roster.  And, one of them is weak-hitting Arquimedes Gamboa.  So, the Phillies will have to find a couple guys to supplement Hoskins, Kingery, and Segura.

Unlike everyone who has to post a negative comment about Alec Bohm after viewing a small sample of his work (or without seeing him play at all), I have seen him over the past two years on many, many occasions.  This includes his first professional innings in the GCL, his rehab innings later that summer in the GCL, his arrival this past January to work on fielding, his spring training innings and at bats before his assignment to Lakewood, and his strong showing with the Clearwater Threshers before his promotion to Reading.  And, I can say unequivocally that I do not “think” he can play third base.  I KNOW HE CAN PLAY THIRD BASE!  I am so tired of people questioning his abilities – people who haven’t seen him at all, haven’t seen him in person, and/or who rely on video or other peoples’ reviews.  He is the best third baseman to come through Clearwater since Maikel Franco, and I thought he was at least as good and maybe better than Franco.

And finally, Marvin Miller has been voted into the Hall of Fame.  This is an honor that should have been extended when he was alive.  He single-handedly changed the game.  Whether you like him or not, like his labor positions or not, he gave the players a much bigger say in their careers.

In winter ball, well, not a lot of action outside of Australia.

Adelaide’s Logan O’Hoppe went on a power surge, going 4-13 in 3 games with 6 runs, 3 HR (including a grand slam), 9 RBI, and 2 walks.  Rixon Wingrove also hit a slam.

O’Hoppe’s first HR to center field, off speed pitch, wind from left to right.

Rixon Wingrove’s grand slam, quick bat, deep to right.

O’Hoppe’s grand slam, crushed to left field.

O’Hoppe’s third HR of the week end, fast ball to right center.

Anyway, in winter ball –

  • Australian Baseball League – Note Josh Hendrickson’s 13 strike outs in 8.2 innings.
  • Aklinski – .211/.295/.395/.690, 8-38, 6 R, 2 2B, 1 3B, 1 HR, 4 RBI, 4 BB, 14 K
  • Stobbe – .140/.220/.140/.360, 6-43, 4 R, 5 RBI, 4 BB, 16 K, 1 SB
  • O’Hoppe – .296/.406/.667/1.073, 8-27, 7 R, 1 2B, 3 HR, 5 BB, 7 K
  • Edwards – .273/.333/.333/.667, 9-33, 4 R, 2 2B, 4 RBI, 2 BB, 5 K
  • Wingrove – .231/.375/.385/.760, 9-39, 6 R, 2 HR, 9 RBI, 9 BB, 16 K, 1 SB
  • Glogoski (0-1, 5.19) – 8.2 IP, 7 H, 5 R, 5 ER, 2 HR, 7 BB, 8 K
  • Hendrickson (0-1, 4.50) – 8.2 IP, 7 H, 6 R, 4 ER, 2 HR, 1 BB, 13 K
  • Tols (1-1, 2.08) – 13.0 IP, 9 H, 6 R, 3 ER, 2 HR, 8 BB, 15 K
  • Dominican Winter League
  • Grullon – .143/.143/.143/.286, 2-14, 1 R, 2 RBI, 5 K (last played 10/20)
  • E. Garcia (0-0, 11.57) – 4 G, 2.1 IP, 2 H, 3 R, 3 ER, 3 BB, 2 K
  • C. Sanchez (0-0, 10.13) – 5 G, 2.2 IP, 5 H, 4 R, 3 ER, 1 BB, 0 K (last pitched 10/27)
  • Puerto Rican Winter League
  • Singer (2-0, 3.38) – 6 G, 5.1 IP, 7 H, 2 R, 2 ER, 1 HR, 6 BB, 4 K

This is the Phuture Phillies Open Discussion for Phillies and other baseball topics.

Key Dates:

  • October 31, 2019 – (day after the last game of the World Series)
    • trading among teams resumed
    • start of “quiet period”
    • eligible players officially file for major/minor league free agency
  • November TBA – Professional Baseball Agreement negotiations between MLB/MiLB
  • November 2-17, 2019 – Premier 12 opener, 2020 Olympics Qualifier
  • November 2, 2019 – Group A: USA v. Netherlands (9-0 win)
  • November 4, 2019 – (fifth day after the last game of the WS)
    • end of “quiet period”
    • deadline for teams to make qualifying offers
    • deadline to exercise/decline options and opt-outs (unless sooner per individual contract)
  • November 11-14, 2019 – GM Meetings in Scottsdale
  • November 14, 2019 – Deadline for free agents to accept qualifying offers (15th day after the last game of the WS)
  • November 15, 2019 – Opener for Liga de Beisbol Profesional Roberto Clemente
  • November 19-21, 2019 – Owners’ Meetings in Arlington
  • November 20, 2019 – Deadline for adding Rule 5 eligible players to the 40-man roster
  • November 21, 2019 – Opener for the Australian Baseball League
  • Nov. TBA – MLBPA executive board meeting (11/26-29 in Irving, TX last year)
  • December 2, 2019 – Last day for teams to offer 2020 contracts to unsigned players on their 40-man rosters
  • December 9-12, 2019 – Winter Meetings in San Diego
  • December 12, 2019 – Rule 5 Draft
  • January TBA – Rookie Career Development Program (1/9-11 in Miami last year)
  • January 10, 2020  – Salary arbitration figures exchanged
  • February 3-21, 2020 – Salary arbitration hearings, Phoenix
  • February 11, 2020 – Voluntary reporting date for pitchers, catchers and injured players
  • February 16, 2020 – Voluntary reporting date for other players
  • February 21, 2020 –  Mandatory reporting date
  • February 22, 2020 – First spring training game at Tigers
  • February 23, 2020 – First spring training home game v. Pirates
  • March 2020 – Americas Qualifier in Arizona (2020 Olympics qualifier)
  • March 23, 2020 – Final spring training home game v. Rays
  • March 26, 2020 – Phillies’ opening day at Miami, active roster reduced to 26 players
  • March/April 2020 – At-Large Qualifier in Taiwan (2020 Olympics qualifier)
  • April 2, 2020 – Phillies’ home opener v. Milwaukee
  • June TBA – Amateur draft
  • June 15, 2020 – International amateur signing period closes
  • July 2, 2020 – International amateur signing period opens
  • July 10, 2020 – Deadline for drafted players to sign, except for players who have exhausted college eligibility
  • July 14,2020  – All-Star Game at Los Angeles
  • July 31, 2020 – Last day during the season to trade a player
  • August 31, 2020 – Last day to be contracted to an organization and be eligible for postseason roster
  • September 1, 2020 — Active rosters expand to 28 players

The rosters and lists are up to date as of December 1st … 367 players in the org

Transactions (newest transactions are in bold print)  The Adonis Medina mystery has been “solved”.  He was apparently recalled by the Phillies on September 30th.  The transaction finally posted this week and he was moved onto the active roster.
12/04/2019 – Phillies sign FA RHP Zack Wheeler
12/02/2019 – 3B Maikel Franco non-tendered, elected free agency
12/02/2019 – 2B Cesar Hernandez non-tendered, elected free agency
12/02/2019 – Phillies claimed RHP Trevor Kelley off waivers from Boston
11/26/2019 – Phillies signed IF/OF Josh Harrison to a MiLB contract with an invite to ST
11/20/2019 – Tampa Bay traded LHP Cristopher Sanchez to Phillies for 2B Curtis Mead
11/20/2019 – Phillies selected the contract of LHP Garrett Cleavinger from Reading
11/20/2019 – Phillies selected the contract of RHP Mauricio Llovera from Reading
11/20/2019 – Phillies selected the contract of LHP Cristopher Sanchez from Reading
11/20/2019 – Phillies selected the contract of LHP JoJo Romero from Lehigh Valley
11/13/2019 – Phillies released RHP Kyle Arjona
11/13/2019 – Phillies released RHP Luis Carrasco
11/13/2019 – Phillies released RHP Juan Escorcia
11/13/2019 – Phillies released 2B Brayan Gonzalez
11/13/2019 – Phillies released RHP Omar Maldonado
11/13/2019 – Phillies released OF Danny Mayer
11/08/2019 – Phillies signed international FA RHP Jaydenn Estanista to an MiLB contract
11/04/2019 – Phillies activated LHP Adam Morgan from the 60-day IL
11/04/2019 – Phillies activated RHP Seranthony Dominguez from the 60-day IL
11/04/2019 – Phillies activated RHP Victor Arano from the 60-day IL
11/04/2019 – Phillies activated RHP David Robertson from the 60-day IL
11/04/2019 – Phillies activated LF Andrew McCutchen from the 60-day IL
11/04/2019 – Phillies activated RHP Jake Arrieta from the 60-day IL
11/04/2019 – RHP Pat Neshek elected free agency
11/04/2019 – LHP Jason Vargas elected free agency
11/04/2019 – RHP Jared Hughes elected free agency
11/04/2019 – Phillies sent RHP Edubray Ramos outright to Lehigh Valley
11/04/2019 – RHP Edubray Ramos elected free agency
11/04/2019 – Phillies sent RHP Mike Morin outright to Lehigh Valley
11/04/2019 – RHP Mike Morin elected free agency
11/04/2019 – Phillies sent RHP Jerad Eickhoff outright to Lehigh Valley
11/04/2019 – RHP Jerad Eickhoff elected free agency
11/04/2019 – Phillies sent RHP Blake Parker outright to Lehigh Valley
11/04/2019 – RHP Blake Parker elected free agency
11/04/2019 – Phillies sent LF Phil Gosselin outright to Lehigh Valley
11/04/2019 – SS Malquin Canelo elected free agency
11/04/2019 – 3B Ali Castillo elected free agency
11/04/2019 – OF Jan Hernandez elected free agency
11/04/2019 – RHP Alexis Rivero elected free agency
11/04/2019 – LF Shane Robinson elected free agency
11/04/2019 – SS Andrew Romine elected free agency
11/04/2019 – 3B Mitch Walding elected free agency
11/04/2019 – C Matt McBride elected free agency
11/04/2019 – RHP Tyler Viza elected free agency
11/01/2019 – Phillies released Jose Pirela
10/31/2019 – Phillies declined $7M club option on RHP Pat Neshek
10/31/2019 – Phillies activated CF Odubel Herrera from the restricted list
10/31/2019 – 1B Logan Morrison elected free agency
10/31/2019 – 2B Brad Miller elected free agency
10/31/2019 – RHP Nick Vincent elected free agency
10/31/2019 – LF Corey Dickerson elected free agency
10/31/2019 – LHP Drew Smyly elected free agency
10/31/2019 – RHP Tommy Hunter elected free agency
10/31/2019 – 3B Sean Rodriguez elected free agency
10/31/2019 – RHP Juan Nicasio elected free agency
10/30/2019 – Phillies claimed RHP Robert Stock off waivers from the Padres
10/09/2019 – Clearwater activated RHP Waylon Richardson from the 7-day IL
10/08/2019 – Clearwater activated C Willie Estrada from the 7-day IL
10/08/2019 – Clearwater activated RHP Tyler Hallead from the 7-day IL
10/08/2019 – Clearwater activated LHP Ethan Evanko from the 7-day IL
10/08/2019 – Clearwater activated C Gabriel Ojeda from the 7-day IL
10/08/2019 – Lakewood activated RHP Andrew Schultz from the 7-day IL
10/08/2019 – Lakewood activated RHP Dominic Pipkin from the 7-day IL
10/08/2019 – Lakewood activated RHP Ben Brown from the 7-day IL
10/08/2019 – Lakewood activated RHP Tyler McKay from the 7-day IL
10/08/2019 – Lakewood activated RHP Jonas De La Cruz from the 7-day IL
10/08/2019 – RHP Bailey Cummings assigned to Williamsport from GCL East
10/08/2019 – DSL White placed RHP Roger Parraga on the restricted list
10/03/2019 – GCL East activated RHP Bailey Cummings from the 60-day IL
10/03/2019 – GCL East activated RHP Yoan Antonac from the 60-day IL
10/03/2019 – GCL East activated RHP Brian Auerbach from the 60-day IL
10/03/2019 – GCL West activated RHP Eudiver Avendano from the 60-day IL
10/03/2019 – GCL West activated RHP Lizardo Herrera from the 60-day IL
10/03/2019 – GCL West activated RHP Sandro Rosario from the 60-day IL
10/03/2019 – DSL Red activated RHP Jose Perez from the 60-day IL
10/03/2019 – DSL Red activated LHP Daivin Perez from the 60-day IL
10/03/2019 – DSL Red activated RHP Joan Hernandez from the 60-day IL
10/03/2019 – DSL Red activated RHP Jeison Blanco from the 60-day IL
10/03/2019 – DSL White activated LHP Yefferson Mercedes from the 60-day IL
10/03/2019 – DSL White activated C Javier Vina from the 60-day IL
10/03/2019 – DSL White activated RHP Santy Prada from the 60-day IL
10/03/2019 – DSL White activated RHP Elias Liriano from the 60-day IL
10/03/2019 – Lehigh Valley activated LHP Brandon Leibrandt from the 60-day IL
10/03/2019 – Clearwater activated C Edgar Cabral from the 7-day IL
10/03/2019 – Clearwater activated C Rodolfo Duran from the 7-day injured IL
10/03/2019 – Clearwater activated LHP Kyle Young from the 7-day injured IL
10/03/2019 – Clearwater activated C Colby Fitch from the 7-day injured IL
10/03/2019 – Clearwater activated LHP Nick Fanti from the 7-day injured IL
10/02/2019 – Lehigh Valley activated OF Jan Hernandez from the 7-day IL
10/02/2019 – Lehigh Valley activated 3B Mitch Walding from the 7-day IL
10/02/2019 – Lehigh Valley activated RHP Alexis Rivero from the 7-day IL
10/02/2019 – Reading activated RHP Tyler Viza from the 7-day IL
10/02/2019 – Reading activated OF Grenny Cumana from the 7-day IL
10/02/2019 – Reading activated RHP Luke Leftwich from the 7-day IL
10/02/2019 – Reading activated RF Danny Mayer from the 7-day IL
10/02/2019 – Reading activated RHP Luis Carrasco from the 7-day IL
10/02/2019 – Reading activated RF Jose Pujols from the 7-day IL
10/02/2019 – Reading activated RHP Mauricio Llovera from the 7-day IL
10/02/2019 – Reading activated LHP Bailey Falter from the 7-day IL
10/02/2019 – Reading activated RHP Trevor Bettencourt from the 7-day IL
10/02/2019 – Reading activated C Nerluis Martinez from the 7-day IL
9/30/2019 – Phillies recalled RHP Adonis Medina from Reading
9/30/2019 – Phillies activated CF Roman Quinn from the 10-day IL
9/30/2019 – Phillies recalled SS Arquimedes Gamboa from Reading
9/30/2019 – Phillies recalled RHP JD Hammer from Lehigh Valley
9/30/2019 – RHP Dan Straily elected free agency
9/30/2019 – C Rob Brantly elected free agency
9/30/2019 – RHP Fernando Salas elected free agency

344 thoughts on “Open Discussion: Week of December 9th

  1. I feel so much better with your assessment of Bohm. Any prediction of date he will play first MLB game with Phillies? Do we need Didi now?
    Why don’t we go all in for Cole?

    1. But, it’s still just my opinion. I could be wrong. As for Didi, we still need major league infielders to start the season. If the reports that the Phillies aren’t going over the tax threshold are true, I can see the Phillies trying to spread their remaining money around to fill as many holes as possible, as cheaply as possible. I had thought that they would get a place card for third base until Bohm was ready. With his participation in the Olympics, I don’t know when that would be.

      All in for Cole? Based on Middleton’s, we won’t go over the cap for the second wild card statement (or however it went), I think the door is left open for a Cole signing under a certain set of circumstances which I don’t see happening. Something like the Arrieta signing when he couldn’t get the dollars and years he wanted and the Phillies swept in just before the beginning of the season. By all accounts, that won’t happen this year. And if the Yankees’ are for real and it’s going to take 7/$245M, that $35M AAV would put the Phillies about $4M under the first penalty ceiling of $228M with the remaining holes still needing to be filled.

  2. Thanks Jim for all that, i will say that Bohm is a very hard worker and will continue to improve his defense. If he ultimately hits, the defense shouldn’t move him off 3b until he’s older.
    This should be a fun interesting week. Enjoy.

  3. Jim – I posted a comment in an article on Bohm that was on mlb.com which questioned his ability to stay at third. I have seen many other scouts with those concerns. I have never seen him play, nor do I consider myself a scout. however, I do not think that it is inappropriate at all to share concerns posted in reputable publications that raise a concern about a prospects future at a specific defensive position. It is not insulting to a player to say that he may be a first baseman and not a third baseman. It is an assessment from a scout which MLB.com thought was reputable enough to post. I like to share feedback from reputable sites and let everyone here make their own opinion about a prospect.

    1. This is what I posted. I do not think that this is a “negative” comment in any way. It is an assessment after watching him in the AFL. This was a concern raised about him before his draft and continues to be raised by reputable publications.

      “To get to the big leagues, Bohm will need to continue refining his defense at the hot corner. He has enough arm strength for the position, but his range is fringy and he lacks consistency. He made a wide throw on a seventh-inning grounder Sunday, his third error in six AFL games in the field after making 12 miscues in 83 regular-season contests.”

      https://www.mlb.com/phillies/news/alec-bohm-on-arizona-fall-league-progress

  4. Jim – Have you asked any contacts you may have in Clearwater for the winter reserve lists? Not that I expect anybody to actually share them with you (God forbid!), but one of the most mystifying things, to me, about the way MLB fails to market itself is the way they treat these reserve lists as “top secret” – even though they are, by definition, shared with all other clubs. It’s like all their competitors know who’s on what list; I expect the MLBPA knows who’s on what list; I wouldn’t be surprised if the KGB knows! But the public, the fans? Nope, can’t share that.

    I think it would be good if team front office personnel get the question – a lot. Why can’t we know who’s on what reserve list? Why it is “hidden” from the fans, given that everybody else is in the know? And importantly, why should we follow your sport at all, since you keep secrets from us for no good reason?

  5. I think Logan O’Hoppe will be a target in a package for many GMs when discussing trade talks with the Phillies.
    Just as Will Stewart was seen by the Marlins with upside potential, though pitching at the A level…O’Hoppe also will be viewed in a similar fashion.

  6. Jim…agree.
    Phillies need infielders on their 40 (only four now)…..Didi looks like a foregone conclusion…especially since the manager is one of his biggest supporters.
    Assume Bohm will be added in May/June if he can produce like all expect him to at LHV
    Also, if they stay with 38 on the 40 , they may also dip into the Rule 5 on Thursday for help..

  7. The conundrum is this – if the Phillies (really, Middleton) have decided to stay under the luxury tax threshold, how creative must Klentak be to construct what might remotely be considered a playoff relevant major league roster in 2020? I mean, really? C’mon…..

    1. I was wondering is a Conundrum that thing down the shore, That spins you around and you stick to the walls?

  8. I have to agree Jimmy. I’ve been saying I trade Bohm under NO (realistic) circumstance. You need premium production at a cheap price and Bohm is likely to give us that for many years to come.

    That said does he stick at 3B I don’t know but I trust they know.

  9. When people go berserk suggesting we need to trade all of these prospects and go over the cap because we are in win now mode, I wonder what team they have been watching. Right now, even with Wheeler, we are looking at like an 83 or 84 win team. They still have a lot of holes.

    1. Klentak said that the time to win is now, no matter what any of us have to say. What does he mean? Win what? When? Now. Middleton would save us all lots of unnecessary excitement if he would just come out and say, “Well, maybe not this year.” There is incongruity between what’s being declared publicly and what’s going on behind closed doors, right?

      1. Absolutely 8Mark. In a day and age where baseball is covered so immensely an org really has to be on point with their messaging. Everything they say and do is so heavily scrutinized it makes no sense not to be consistent with your messaging to your fan base.

        It will only come back to bite you in the rear. The die hard fans know more about their teams than they ever did.

        If you saw the program on MLB Network called “The Business of Baseball” which was a round table discussion of Jed Hoyer, Jon Daniels, Thad Levine and Michael Hill with Brian Kenney and Dan O’Dowd hosting you would come away with a sense that those 4 are keenly aware the new age fan knows their team top to bottom.

        That was a heck of a lot of baseball brain power in one room discussing a bunch of things we rarely get to see. Not a surprise they were very careful to skirt around details they didn’t want the others to know.

  10. What I know today is this pitching staff even with Wheeler is not as good as what we saw from the Nats and Astros

    and the line-up isn’t as good as most teams we saw in the playoffs. How do we get there should be the question.

    Realmuto is a stud catcher by all accounts and maybe there is a little more OPS in the bat but its not MVP OPS.

    Hoskins is a great candidate to have a big bounce back year. I give him a good chance to become close to a JD Martinez which would be huge.

    Kingery should basically be what he was last year but give you near GG defense at 2B

    Segura is steady should give us what we had in 19 with the potential to uptick his offensive production however it is limited. If you could somehow upgrade that position in a big way you would try to do it.

    Bohm cannot be any worse than what we got out of 3B last year and probably is going to significantly improve the offensive production at that position over a full season once he is called up.

    Cutch is a big question mark. He has to be at his age coming off an ACL. Sure if he comes back and gives you another 834 OPS season that is pretty good but would you bet on it. For me at the $$$ it’s costing us there it is difficult bet to make but I think you are forced into making it. In a vacuum I’d like writing Castellanos’ name in that spot instead of Cutch.

    Haseley is a ? for sure but one you have to get answered if you’re the Phillies with their payroll where it is now.

    Harper I think we all know is pretty darn good. We should be able to count on the production we got last year with the potential for more for quite a few more seasons.

    So at the end of the off season you’re counting on quite a few “IFS” and “?s” and little in the way of depth behind the catcher position and the middle IF spots. I know nobody here likes to hear it but Odubel at least gives you some depth at CF and LF.

  11. Nothing to do with anything, but I just wanted to acknowledge the 103rd birthday of one of the great Hollywood icons, Kirk Douglas. Three favorite movies of mine were “20,000 Leagues Under the Sea”, “The List of Adrian Messenger” (he played the bad guy) and one guilty pleasure, “War Wagon” a tongue-in-cheek western with the “Duke” John Wayne.

      1. DMAR, saw them all in my formative tween years. The first was made in ’54, the 2nd the year I was born (’63) and the 3rd in ’67.

        1. Ok I’ll see if I can drag myself away from baseball for a couple of hours to check it out. My dad was born in 1935 so I was often exposed to some of those old movies back in the day.

          He was not into the western’s as much as he was the WWII stuff

  12. Not sure if it has been confirmed, but the Yankees offered Cole 7 years, $245M. Boras must be giddy right now.

    1. Look for the MMA match between Steinbrenner and Moreno.
      Moreno may go 8 years….and Trout and Pujols lengths …lots of years going on there.
      Angels better get into a play-off soon.

    2. It’s been reported that was the Yankee’s offer. Expect it was reported by someone friendly with the Boras camp and not from the Yankees organization.

  13. Thanks jim, it might “only” be your opinion but it is an informed one, and I trust it. I have said all along that unless by some totally unexpected signing of Rendon, I don’t entertain any thought of trading Bohm and he is my future 3B until he proves he can’t play 3B. In the meantime, I am not thrilled with Segura at 3B and shouldn’t we be more concerned about adding another SP, lefthanded, and a BP arm? Why not Frazier or Shaw as a stopgap at 3B? We are going to spend $15M for Didi? Either we are exceeding the LT or we are not and if we are $15M for Didi takes us out of anything except back to the dented can aisle .

    1. What if Matt K gets Boyd in a trade from Detroit or Ray from the DBacks……that certainly is worth more value than the dented-can aisle?

    2. Travis Shaw had a brutal year so he might be willing to be a stop gap, although I hear the Blue Jays are sniffing around him and might give him a starting job at 1B.

      Even at age 33, Todd Frazier is coming off a 2.2 WAR season. I’m not sure if he’s willing to be a stopgap. Not only that, he’s still going to cost at least $8M for 1 year. Do we really want to pay that much for a stopgap?

  14. Romus, if we can get Boyd without Bohm, Howard or Stott, then that works, but Detroit was asking for the moon, and I don’t know what Dbacks want. Wouldn’t Frazier take a 2 yr deal? It is much more important to add Pitching. I would play Brad Miller if I thought it was only a few months. If Bohm is 2 years away then that is a whole different story.

    1. Holy moonbeams that’s a lot of dough. He’s a darn good pitcher but I wasn’t thinking he was in that territory at his age and with his injury history.

  15. v1, I read $245M the alleged Cole offer. Now Cole will get more! We, clearly, knew what it would take and went after Wheeler. Lots more to do!

    1. I didn’t think for a minute that Cole would command $300M, but now I do….say, over 8 years. Do the Yankees pony up? Tough call based on recent history. The Angels can have him if not.

      1. It would be nice if the Angel, Yankees or Rangers get the last two biggies…..keep them out of the NL.
        Worry about them in the WS

    1. This contract tops the seven-year, $210 million deal the Nationals gave to Max Scherzer in 2015. Scherzer was 30 years old at the time, and Strasburg is 31 now. This also is three more years and $145 million more than the contract Strasburg opted out of last month.

        1. Yeah that was probably me I’ll shut up for now on when it comes to what a guy might get for a contract. Holy sheesh!

    2. Strasburg just put the Nats through the ringer and squeezed every last cent out of them. He’s already 31 with an injury history, I can see this deal haunting the Nats for a long time.

    3. I’m been a Gerrit Cole guy but with the SP market being set right now it will be a mano-y-mano between NYY and LAA. This is where striking early on Zack Wheeler becomes a smarter move. And with hindsight, signing MadBum earlier could save the Phillies more since it is most likely that MadBum will sign for $80-90M before the Phillies set the secondary SP market when they signed Wheeler above $100M.

      1. Yeah, I seriously doubt the current market will bare what MadBum is reportedly asking. Maybe 4/$80M but nowhere close to 6 figures or even 5 years. There aren’t that many teams willing and able to offer him more. But being a lefty, I would offer him 4/$80M. But I doubt the Phillies would.

        1. Supposed MadBum has put the word out that he’s looking for a 9-figure contract so 5-$100M is his baseline?

          I wouldn’t be paying that but I think someone out there might…

  16. I actually like the idea of breaking the luxury threshold in 2020 if they Phillies can sign Rendon and trade Bohm for some rotation help — but please, avoid Matt Boyd at all cost. Robbie Ray, Kyle Freeland, etc, etc will be better SP option especially if the Phillies will give up one of their top prospects.

    Also, I like Logan O’Hoppe a lot. I like to see O’Hoppe in red pin stripes so I hope he will not be traded.

    With $$ being utilized in FA signings, it is now imperative for the Phillies to hold on to Spencer Howard and keep other top prospects close to the MLB.

  17. This is the radio announcer for the Cubs. I doubt it gets done, but let’s speculate for a minute..who would you give up for Bryant? And don’t give me any of the Odubel and Medina BS packages. It is going to cost a lot!

    1. I will assume that Spencer Howard is untoucheable….the starting package will look like….

      Alec Bohm
      Bryan Stott
      Francisco Morales
      Rafael Marchan

      + Vinny or Eflin or Pivetta or delos Santos

      Without Howard, Erik Miller can be in play plus one the of young LHP close to the majors (Dohy, Jones, etc)

    2. Easily…if not Doobie and Adonis…then the next best thing…Nick Williams, Cole Irvin and Roman Quinn!

    1. What’s not being discussed much is that Strasburg’s deal include $80 million deferred. Haven’t seen the details of that deferment yet but its not a straight $245 over 7 years as is currently being reporting.

      Maybe Cole gets to $300 million with some money deferred but $300 million with no deferral seems out of reach on an 8 year deal. But then again, Arte Moreno is just the kind of owner that could make it happen.

  18. For all the “boos” the Phils front office has gotten on this site and others, one has to give it to them that they went out quickly and efficiently after the key pitcher available this season – I shudder to think what Wheeler is really worth – if Hamels gets 1 year for 18 ; Stras gets 7 years at 35 probably payable out over 50 years ; and G. Cole gets 35 to 38 per year !! 23 and change is still “cheap” in that marketplace. Moreover, I would not be surprised as pitchers are taken off the table the remaining # 3’s, 4-5’s go for higher than expected prices. Smyly at 5 per year may not work any longer ?

    Kluber at 18 per year looks bargain basement !

  19. Bohm and Howard are potential stars — young and affordable. The Phillies are not ready to be WS contender next year. 2021-2022 are more likely dates.I take Jim’s observation that Bohm can play a fine third base. Why break the bank to sign Rendon and then push Bohm to positions he hardly knows or trade him away. Keep these two promising players and do some fill in for next year.

    Corey Dickerson should make a greater contribution in 2021-2022 then Cutch. Why not sign Dickerson, trade Cutch (eating much of the money), get Didi, have Segura fill in at 3b, find an affordable number 5 SP. This should not break the bank and, hopefully, in 2021 Bohm and Howard will join the lineup.

    1. “Corey Dickerson should make a greater contribution in 2021-2022 then Cutch.”

      What evidence is there to support that theory? Cutch was the superior player last year.

      McCutchen:

      262PA
      43BBs 55ks
      .256/.378/.457

      Dickerson:
      137PA
      3BBs 33ks
      .293/.307/.579

      Which performance looks more sustainable? Corey Dickerson is a shinier toy that is all he is to us.

  20. Phillies might want to make a run at J. A. Happ as the Yankees are looking to move him and will probably eat a good portion of his salary.

      1. How about this?
        Since Cashman needs money now, and down the road for the next 8 years, to lure Cole.
        Cutch and Arrieta to the Yankees for….Stanton, Happ and Jasson Dominguez,

  21. Reds, Phillies and now reportedly the Brewers have interest in Didi. I thought the Phillies would have him signed by now what with the Girardi love. But the word out is that they are looking for an infielder, we assume on the left side. Perhaps the price for Didi got too high….maybe a trade is in the works.

  22. I wasn’t the biggest fan of the Cutch signing last year but I enjoyed watching him while he was healthy and think he can come back and contribute. People are talking like he’s 36 years old, I believe he’s what? 33 for the whole season? Not a spring chicken but as a 34 year old I resent the talk about him old 👴🏻 Think he’s got something left and will be eager to show it this year.

    1. Haha fair point Eric. I think if it were any other injury but an ACL I would fully agree with you but a lot of Cutch’s value was that he was still one of the fastest players in the league.

      I mean Howie Kendrick proved a bunch of people wrong last season so what not Cutch.

  23. Shocked to see Strasburg reach 245 million; I thought that was Cole’s territory and his only. Makes the Wheeler signing look even better, IMO, as of course Stras is better than Wheeler but is DOUBLE the value of Zack? No way. Glad they struck first and got Wheeler before this got outta hand. I like Didi for the middle infield, and at this point I’d be stunned if they didn’t exceed the first tax threshold. If they only needed on more guy, sure, thats do-able, but the Phils need a SP arm, a relief arm, an infielder at minimum, before even talking about that JTR money…I just dont see any creative ways to get all of that done in under 20 million bucks, unless the Phils are content with DEPTH players like Brad Miller and Drew Smyly rather than IMPACT players like Didi and Madbum…will be interesting to see how they maneuver the next couple weeks.

    1. Saw Mike Rizzo on MLB last night at the winter meetings and I’ve seen him say many times before “we are a pitching first organization”

      since he’s been there and other than the Werth signing he’s always held true to that in FA signings. So I guess he is a buy the arms guy and grow the bats guy.

      1. And I’m going to give pause, pump the brakes and every other cliche I can think of that the Strasburg deal means Cole is going to get some earth shattering $300+ million deal (I know I just said above I was done guessing at contract figures)

        But that said when Scherzer came onto the market the Nats were the only ones willing to go that high, the Corbin Deal also beat out us and the Yankees.

        I guess what I am saying is just because the Nats were willing to go that high to brings Stras back doesn’t necessarily mean the other clubs will all of a sudden change their valuations on pitchers. Even a pitcher like Cole.

        The tell will/might be what happens with Bumgarner.

    1. The Astros had been very good and lucky in drafting in the last 8 years — very good in hitting with most of their 1st rd picks and lucky to not Aiken a contract and sell high on Appel and get a RP that helps them win a World Series.

      Notheless, the Astros scouting is one of the best in the league.

  24. So Didi, Brad Miller, Roark, Betances, and perhaps MadBum? That the extent of the rest of the offseason? Would be considered a success in my mind. Not possible in current construct of total salaries if the plan is to not exceed the luxury tax threshold but that would remove doubt in a lot of the open or open competition slots on the roster.

    1. “….and perhaps MadBum?”
      That’s a big perhaps in the total scheme of things. Don’t think they are in on Bumgarner.

      1. 8mark, I guess my perhaps statement is tied to how long MadBum lingers on the open market. If he stays out there into Feb, “perhaps” that could be an option!

        1. I do not see the likelihood of this ever happening….but if he is out there until June, like Keuchel and Kimbrel were last year, he Phillies should jump on him for sure.

          1. Yeah I don’t see any top line pitcher holding out well into the season. Didn’t go well with either Keuchel or Kimbrel. I believe there is a greater urgency on both the part of the owners and players to refrain from entering into the land of utter uncertainty. Besides, this year’s market is rife with talent compared to recent hot stove seasons.

  25. Back to Kris Bryant….
    Let’s assume he loses his grievance against the Cubs. So, he would be under club control for 2 years instead of one. He’s a client of Scott Boras, as is his close Vegas childhood pal Bryce Harper. The Phillies would be hedging a bet that Bryant would be more amenable to an eventual extension before the end of the 2021 season. But if not, Harper, Boras and Middleton could encourage him to re-sign once he hit the open market.

    So, I would accordingly offer to the Cubs: Alec Bohm, Jean Segura (and probably 50% of his salary, approximately $20M over the next 3 seasons), Erik Miller (ouch!) and Ethan Lindow (mmm!).

    What would you offer? Or simply wait until Bryant turns free agent and by then we know what we have in Bohm….which is a reasonable position.

    1. I’m pretty sure I know what I have in Bohm so he’s not going anywhere. The idea is to add an impact player not move one for another.

    2. Usually My first choice is the FA, only cost money to etc. rendon is likely the better player for now, but I suspect a resurgence from Bryant if he can be paired in the same lineup as Harper. It’s another dream come true for those two. Now the other bonus is Bryant can play around the field, vs rendon who causes a log jam

      My offer would be to trade for Bryant but hold on to both Bohm and Howard. Seabold as well

      I’d offer. Haseley/Moniak, Grullon, Medina, Miller, and Stott/Garcia

      Bryant could play LF, with Bohm at 3rd, Kingery at SS and Segura st 2nd. I’d be open to trading Segura but I don’t think we’d get stronger in the short term if they did. That would be a lot of former MVP candidates in the lineup if so

      McCutchen
      Segura
      Bryant
      Harper
      With the games best C

  26. With Betts getting arb4 $28M this season and a free agent next year…the Sox will not be able to move him….so they will settle for a compensation draft pick in the 30/35 range.

    Cleveland can see the hand writing on the wall…IMO, Lindor gets moved soon, in this year, to avoid the Betts/Machado/Harper issue those clubs have had to deal with….Lindor will be a $25M plus arb4 guy in 2021 and then a free agent after that season.

  27. Maybe the Rangers, in their quest for OF help, could be persuaded that Doobie would be a good “change of scenery” candidate? Especially if we eat half the $?

  28. As of right now looks like 23 teams are eligible to make selection in Thursday’s Rule 5 draft.
    Teams that have open 40 slots.
    Phillies at 12.

    1. Tigers (37)…2. Orioles (38) …3. Marlins (39) …4. Royals (36)
    5. Blue Jays (37)…6. Mariners (38) …7. Pirates (39)
    8. Angels (39) …9. White Sox (37) …10. Reds (38)
    11. Giants (37) …..12. Phillies (39)…13. Cubs (37)
    14. Red Sox (36) ….15. D-backs (38) …16. Brewers (34)
    17. Nationals (33) ….18 Rays (38) …19 Braves (38)
    20. Athletics (38) ….21Twins (36) …22 Dodgers (39)
    23. Astros (38)

    This could change in the next 24 hours if teams decide to make trades or sign free agents.

  29. I asked this previously before, but how many mega contracts ($20M+ AAV) can a team have before you have to pay tax? We already have 2 (Harper and Wheeler) and you figure Realmuto will eventually join the club. I think you can have 4 mega contracts but obviously the other players have to be pretty cheap.

    1. Angels are getting close…three…Trout, Pujols and Upton…sign Cole and its a $30M plus contract.
      Nats alone have three pitchers in that category.

  30. Color me stupefied at the contract Scott Boras talked the Nationals into giving Stephen Strasburg. It’s never a good idea to pay for past performance. It’s a horrible idea to hand over the farm for recent past performance. 7 years @ 245 million dollars has an excellent chance of going down as one of the worst deals ever handed out by a MLB franchise, and makes the Middleton/Klentak team look brilliant for the 5 year/118 million dollar pact they struck with Zack Wheeler.

    About the Phillies … I posted over the weekend it makes absolutely no sense for Middleton to spend 330 million dollars on Bryce Harper, 118 million dollars on Zack Wheeler, plus Sixto Sanchez and a ~100 million dollar extension on JT Realmuto and then hit the brakes at the luxury tax threshold.
    The team’s core (Harper/Realmuto/Hoskins/Kingery/Nola/Wheeler) are all in their mid to late 20’s. They’re built to win now. They can’t waste another year. As the Phillies roster stands now, this team isn’t yet good enough to beat the Braves (let alone the LAD’s). Middleton needs to continue to spend.

  31. Even if the Nats lose Rendon, they could sign Donaldson and still be better than we are. And, I am expecting big years from Rhys and Kingery. We still need another SP, a reliable BP piece, maybe 2, and a 3B who can actually be a danger at the plate, not just a stopgap until/if Bohm is ready. I don’t see how we do that with only $19Million, and if the object isn’t to win this year, what, exactly, have they been feeding us? And, every time I rad an analyst refer to our “self imposed financial constraints”, I can’t but help but feel they are being sarcastic. That is probably me projecting my own bias on the matter, but I can’t how the holes get filled on the cheap.

  32. Just saw that and it’s a 1 year deal. No $ amount listed. Very interesting that he took a 1 year deal, and we have our IF. Next is SP!

      1. Trade time more than likely.
        I saw on Twitter that Brad Miller is looking for a starting gig. Interested to see how that works out.
        He’d be a great bench piece.

      1. Depends on his willingness to shift, I guess. I’d say second. But if he’s adamant about not moving off SS, trade it is.

        1. I anticipate a trade of Segura. Even if the Phillies eat half, that’s $7M AAV off the rolls. Add that to the $5M plus that’s left after Didi and they would have over $12M still to spend on upgrades.

          1. Agree. He’s worth more than $7M a year – probably around $10-12 M (he’s going to make $14M this year). So if the Phillies eat $2-4 M a year, it’s a very attractive acquisition for another team and the prospect cost will be negligible. So I’m thinking they can free up about $10M, which gives them around $14M+ – enough to sign a guy like Brad Miller, Alex Wood (one year pillow contract and perhaps an option year) and a middle reliever. That works for me.

  33. I fully respect Jim and his sources when they said the Phils weren’t going over the tax threshold. It was probably true then, but I don’t see how these moves don’t signal a directional shift. I imagine they made that assessment assuming the market was going to take a very different turn (maybe they knew what Stras was going to get and thought it wouldn’t be worth pursuing their targets at such an inflated price?). But with these two signings (which are very reasonable, even good for us), I don’t see how they stay under the threshold. Nor do I see why they would want to.

    Now I’m not saying they’ll sign Rendon or Cole (though we can hope). But I definitely see some RP signings in our future. Maybe another SP, too. And there’s no reason to be signing only minor league guys when you’re clearly gunning for the playoffs this year.

    1. Dan K….one SP will more than likely come via a trade.
      The word from the beat guys is that Nick Pivetta is a possibility to be shopped.

  34. Well, that leaves $5M under the budget, meaning a bench bat, Drew Smyly and no more BP help, unless there is some trade that saves money, like eating half of Doobie’s contract, or moving Segura, or we exceed the LT, or some other trade for pitching that nets out dollar wise, and we add a BP arm in FA. No trades yet, and Klentak loves trades, so still a number of holes and possibilities. I don’t know that Segura plays 3B any better than he played SS. I feel Kingery is best at 2B, but may have to play 3B out of necessity. And, I don’t think we were ever in on Rendon.

  35. Couldn’t agree more with the supposed financial restraints – it can’t possibly happen ? Too many pieces to get with only 19 million. No way. Matt13 sites the needs above and now with the Didi signing there is even less room for more pitching. Keep in mind, Arrieta, Robertson, and now Didi fall off the salary schedule at end of 2020 – that has to be 33 + 15 ? = 48 million?

    On Bryant – no interest from this blogger. Check his fielding stats – they stink. His batting is good but he hits in Wrigley in a great lineup – plus he would cost 18 mill in arbitration this year alone. Even if a rookie Bohm hits .240; 16 hr ; 60 rbi and doesn’t maim the left fielder behind him he is worth more – 500 thousand vs. 18 million ? No contest. – I say – Bohm in a landslide. Rent a 3b till the kid comes up – can you say Brad Miller ?

    Lastly – with the pitching – Klentak, in my opinion, looks like a genius for his 5 year 23 mill a year for Wheeler. Put him back in the market and he would likely trade at 26 per year for 6 or 7 years.

    1. i am amaze at stat guys, You look up numbers, but the whole panel on mlb said how well he fields, and can do it at multiple pos itons, he played center, right and third and was good, but you look up stats and say the people who have seen him are wrong.

  36. Salisbury feels that any going over the LT won’t happen until the 2020 season unfolds, and BP help and SP depth come from bargain hunting. He is usually in tune with what the team is doing. So, let’s say Drew Smyly is SP #5 and we get a moderately priced BP arm and a bench piece, let’s say Brad Miller, after he fails to get a starting job. Go right up against $208M. Is this a team that contends for more than the WC? Aren’t we counting on Arrieta and/or Eflin to be the mid rotation SP? Aren’t we taking a big risk with the BP? Is this a contending team that Klentak says they are putting together for 2020? Is this a team that plays well enough, so come July, Klentak can go to MIddleton and go over the LT, and get that additional SP and BP arm that I know they will need? I don’t know, but it’s not my job on the line.

    1. matt13, that sounds like a sound plan contingent on how the 1st half Phillies fare. The trade deadline could be the focal point in positioning the team for a legitimate playoff run….OR an opportunity to punt and trade off some excess salary in preparation for next year’s free agent market. Meanwhile, what will Klentak do to restock the farm. Should he fail on that front, his negligence there alone should cost him his job.

  37. Klentak has to know that his job isn’t 100% secure and missing the playoffs might mean losing his job . . . with that being said there has to be a move for a GOOD starting pitcher. There’s no way he thinks that Wheeler and a “healthy” Arrieta will push them over the top. They relied last year on their pitchers progressing (Eflin/VV/Pivetta), no way they make the same mistake, right?

    1. I hope in a trade he gets one of the lefties out there…Boyd, or Norris, maybe Duffy and who I think he should go after …Freeland.
      Next week should be prime time to make the move.

    2. I would think Pivetta or Velasquez would be included in a package for a #3 SP, probably a lefty. I don’t see the Phillies signing another free agent arm except maybe Smyly on a very small deal. The one big suspense is two fold – will they trade Segura and subsequently acquire a 3b?

  38. I am with you Romus, First, I don’t think they are done, and I am believing, although I disagree, but believing that the $208M is a magic number. And Klentak likes to make trades. I think the Boyd price tag is too high, and I am not thrilled with him. But, Duffy, Norris and your guy Freeland are worth taking a chance on. I can’t believe they are going to ST with Herrera, and some team is going to want to take a risk on him, with us eating a good chunk of the $. But, that savings, even if it’s $3M, gives us more flexibility. I really don’t have a BP arm on my list other than Ken Giles, and I don’t know what he would cost. But, the BP needs another piece, too.

  39. If the Phillies are only going to make marginal moves going forward, last offseason and this offseason have been a waste. The luxury tax is not a hardline cap. Middleton is ok with shelling out $202M, but not another $20M, because the evil tax will cost an extra $4M?? If that’s the case, we are not serious about winning baseball.

    We are looking up at the current World Series champions, the division winning Braves, and the Mets. The Mets, if Edwin Diaz was just even mediocre, win 90 games. What if he clicks and is back to being phenomenal? And their new owner is worth $10 BILLION and will be soon ready to spend.

    So if we are going to chase Drew Smyly, or play Kingery out of his natural and best position, or really believe in Adam Hasely to man center for a full year, or think the bullpen will be alright, or think Arrieta and Eflin will be above average, we are screwed.

    I’m not trying to be a downer, but that’s the reality of the NL East right now.

    1. Agree. Not to mention the pressure on Klentak to construct a playoff team. San Diego, LAA and the Phillies are 3 MLB teams under the gun to start moving their respective needles. The Phillies are perceived to be the closest to making the playoffs, thus the heat on Klentak is even greater.

      1. Well, I also cannot forget the 5 years of being horrible. How many years are we suppose to wait for playoff baseball? We could’ve been spending money, and only money during 2013-2017 to put a good product on the field. What if we signed some guys we shouldn’t have, but then turned them into prospects? Maybe we would be better off today.

        But now the luxury tax is our biggest obstacle?? I don’t think so. Spend the money and start winning.

    2. I am so tired of hearing about second base being Kingery’s natural position. If any position could be considered his “natural” position, it might be shortstop. Kingery played shortstop in high school, batting .485 with 8 HR in his senior year. Kingery was a walk-on at Arizona who had Kevin Newman entrenched at shortstop. His first 2 years, Kingery started 74 of 83 games in the outfield. He didn’t start regularly at second base until his junior year. That one year hardly qualifies as his “natural” position.

      1. He has almost 2000 more professional innings at second base than at shortstop. That’s over a course of the last 5 years. Most people in the organization talk about him being a great future second baseman, most recently Larry Bowa.

        It’s not like I’m calling Trevor Hoffman a natural shortstop, or Carlos Ruiz a natural second baseman.

      2. Okay….2b isn’t Kingery’s “natural” position. It’s his best position. Otherwise why would they sign Didi Gregorius to play SS. Credible baseball insiders have suggested that Kingery may be a gold glove caliber 2b.

        1. Yes it is.
          Cashman needs to move salaries…ie two of which are Stanton and Happ
          Also has Ellsbury’s issue hanging over them for this year.
          And finally….Judge entering his age28 season and the face of the franchise…..his LTC may be an issue….he becomes a free agent at his age31 season….and he probably does not want that since he may not get the length he desires in an offer.
          So Cashman has to be thinking of signing him to a contract into his age34/35 seasons…7/8 year LTC.

          1. I was pulling for him to go to the Angels just so I can have a chance to see Trout in the playoffs and maybe one day in the WS.

            1. Will have to see what direction Moreno goes now….they still need pitching.
              Maybe Madison B. now.
              And he will get his big pay-off.

  40. I updated the pinned story ($4.3 Million (formerly $19.4 and $42.5). The Phillies have about $4.3M below the tax threshold, hence the updated title after signing Didi Gregorius.

    That signing gives them FIVE infielders on their 40-man roster, and that number includes Gamboa. Realistically, the Phillies need at least one more infielder/bench guy if you think that Josh Harrison makes the 26-man roster. The 40-man is at 40, so any additional signings (or Harrison promotion) will require a matching transaction off the 40.

    I have included two additional minor leaguers in my threshold calculations since the presence of Robertson and Herrera mean the Phillies are actually working with a 28-man roster. We know Harrison signed a minor league deal, but I don’t know if their is a major league provision or if he would just make major league minimum.

    I know there is some interest in signing Smyly (among commenters), but I would think that the fast market at the top among pitchers might cause the market to correct and cost more than the 1 year/$3M that MLBTR predicted.

    I think trades are the likely avenue that the Phillies follow to add pitching. I’m afraid we’re going to lose a couple prospects. I haven’t heard anything. I’m just guessing based on threshold proximity.

    1. For one year of Mike Minor, I would offer Texas the following:

      Jean Segura (plus 50% of his salary, that’s roughly $7M AAV off the books)
      Nick Williams
      Odubel Herrera (plus all of his salary minus the major league minimum)
      Vince Velasquez (another 4 million off the books)

      Rangers just moved Mazara to the White Sox, so they could take a flyer on a couple of change of scenery candidate outfielders who they are familiar with since they began their pro careers there. Segura can play 3b, SS or 2b for them.

      Sign Brad Miller as a stop gap until Bohm arrives.

      1. This makes zero sense. The Rangers moved Mazara because they had a glut of LH OFs. Not only that, if they’re sniffing around Rendon, they are looking to win. They would need to be blown away to move Mike Minor. That trade package you’re recommending is a joke for a pithcer who’s coming off a 7 WAR season.

        1. The oddity with Minor….he is a one-year rental entering his age32 season and a free agent in his age33 season……Phillies would be foolish to offer anything of extended value and would have to pony mucho dinero to keep him over the long term as an aging pitcher….. but the Rangers on the other hand, need him to go for it this year, but probably will QO him after this season ilo of a 3/4 year contract offering which he probably wants.

          So there are pro and cons from both sides in what his value is to each team..

      2. Dear everyone.

        Nick Williams and Odubel Herrera have ZERO value to other teams. Zero. Segura has very little value and Vinny also has very little value.

        Stop including them in trades for anything but a bag of balls. It is NOT happening.

    2. Well Joe got his man in Didi like many here said he would. Many on MLB network last night thought this was a great move and predicted he would bounce back and hit 270+ with 25+ dingers and 85 RBIs.

      If that happens perhaps I’ll forget everything I thought I knew about baseball.

      Have to agree with you Jim that some trades will follow. I just hope none of them involve Bohm or Howard. I’ve been here on this site for a long time hoping to follow a prospect from draft to stardom.

      1. We already have one in Aaron Nola —- but it will be cool to have more than Nola just like during the glory days of Chase-RH6-JSmooth and Hamels.

  41. Yankees signed Cole and their payroll is now $246M. They still have no center fielder for next year and desperately want to move Happ. But they still went out and got their guy….

    Let’s see what Mr. George Steinbrenner South does….

  42. The trade market for quality starting pitching just got a lot more expensive. So if you want to trade for somebody good i.e. Mike Minor you will have to pony up something serious.

    1. In my mind scouting and development just got a lot more urgent. If I was middleton, I would look at the money spent and realize I must go to the better drafting teams and steal there scouts and personal spend more money there,

    2. Wild guess on my part….but see the Tigers and Phillies working out a deal with pitchers and position players involved.

  43. The Rangers are moving into a new stadium and are looking to win, not add prospects for the future. Why would they trade MInor? We need to find our own Mike Minor. I cannot fault Klentak, at all, with this off season. I like the Didi signing, and I love the Wheeler one. But we are spending $208Million to wrest 3rd place away from the Mets. And, I am not being negative. I believe in Hoskins and Kingery, but I see a bench needing depth, a big hole at #3 SP, and a BP that does not inspire confidence at all. Am I wrong? Can anyone here build the rest of the team and stay under the magic number? Does anyone think that if we, say, spend $220 Million, and have to suffer that 2.4Million surcharge, we have to hold a bake sale for John Middleton? I don’t. So, yes, the self imposed salary cap bothers me. I hope it is all part of negotiating, but every story I read references 208. I am not complaining about not getting Cole. The Yankees view him as the piece to make them a WS contender. And, if they win it, no one connected to the Yankees, FO or fans, will care one bit about what he cost or what their LT bill will be. We are not there yet. I understand we shouldn’t spend another $324M, but, we can be significantly better than what we are today, and $ should not be an impediment.

    1. Bargain bin hunting time. Maybe they’ll finally strike gold.

      I’m hoping Howard gets the call after a month and turns in to a solid 3.

    2. I agree with Hinkie that the gains (Harper signing, upcoming JTR extension, etc) that Middleton made (and will make) plus the prime years of the “core” will be wasted if Middleton suddenly becomes gun shy to construct a competent team that will be at par with the contending teams in the MLB.

      With contractual agreements limiting the Phillies payroll flexibility, it is most likely that the Phillies will hold on to Bohm and Howard, etc to balance the payroll – so the younger prospects like Morales, Luis Garcia, Moniak, Muzziotti, Pipikin and Marchan are the prospects likely to be traded.

  44. Some people on this site want to “plug in” Brad Miller at 3B. Before playing 3B for the Phillies for 17 games last season, he played the position last in 2015 and over his career has only a handful of games at that position. He is NOT a 3Bman and proved last season when he is there, he doesn’t play it well. He hits but he will be a liability if he starts at the hot corner even for a short amount of time.

    1. Kingery at third until bohm is ready. I’m assuming Segura is not moved. Harrison haseley McCutchen Bruce and some dude named Harper man the OF.

  45. I’m not sure why people automatically think that their teams should be paying luxury tax to field a competitive team. Not every owner can be Mark Cuban. As much as these owners want to win, they are still running a business i.e. the Phillies. If you can avoid paying tax, then you should. Owners don’t become rich spending when they don’t have to. If this is the 2020 Phillies, so be it.

    1. I also think we tend to forget that while Middleton is majority owner and managing partner the Bucks still have a seat at the ownership table.

      Not sure how it works and maybe they don’t have any say in the payroll budget but given their tenure as owners I imagine they do.

      1. Spending cannot be assessed in isolation. I’m pretty sure that the Phillies (Middleton, Bucks) has a short term and long term business plan and the spending that Middleton is doing is within those plans.

        Short term plan is matching payroll with revenue which is what we saw during the rebuilding stages (2014-2016). Long term builds in the timeline to contend (which most of us anticipates starting 2019 onwards). Contending means building a competent team = better product that results to increase in revenue stream.

        The spending that Middleton is doing right now is justified. Although the Phillies took a harder financial hit due to the lack of success in their scouting department that should produce low cost players that balances the payroll.

    2. Owners buy teams for 2 reasons and 2 reasons only:
      1. Vanity
      2. The asset appreciates at a rate above normal investment returns given the scarcity and #1 above.

      Small, short term losses should not impact either of those two.

      1. On April 18, 2000, Glass became sole owner of the Royals, purchasing the organization from the Kauffman estate for $96 million.

        They just sold the Team for $1 billion.

  46. Guru, we are not suggesting that the KC Royals spend into the LT. We are a big market team, and have a god deal of $. If you spend $208M and fail to make the Playoffs, and $25Million or so more gets you to the Playoffs, there is a good business reason to get to the Playoffs. Forget that the whole point is to win, you get extra revenue when you are a Playoff team, and you drew many more fans, therefore more $, when you contend all year. So, yes, Guru, I expect John Middleton to pay whatever it takes to make us a contending team. I expect that those years where we didn’t spend $100Million the team should have put money away for exactly now. And, the Yankees, Dodgers, Cubs all share their markets with a team in the other league. Only us and Boston are the big market teams that are one team and one city.

    1. Only problem with this argument is that you’re making the assumption that spending $25 million more suddenly guarantees a playoff team vs. the team as constructed competing for a playoff spot. Who is the magical player that spending $25 million on will guarantee a playoff spot? Wouldn’t he be worth more that $25 million if he comes with that type of guarantee?

      We all want the Phillies to use their big budget to put a competitive team on the field and compete. It seems to me that they are doing just that. Boston was significantly over the threshold last season and wasn’t a playoff team, same with the Cubs. Ironically, both of those teams are making significant efforts to reduce payroll in 2020 instead of spending more. Are Theo Epstein and Chaim Bloom (who many wanted to replace Klentak) too dumb to realize that if they just spend more stupid money they are in?

      As has been talked about ad-nauseum on this site, the good teams that are able to sustain success do so by developing and promoting talent from within the organization along with spending $$$ to fill the gaps. The Phillies have spend a lot of money the last 2 seasons to improve the roster but are not going to buy a playoff spot just by spending more of Middleton’s money.

      1. Klentak’s lack of talent evaluation and creativity put the Phillies between a rock and a hard place. It is already a fact that the Phillies lacks the high end young talents. So do you want them to do? Wait another 5 years to find and develop those young and cheap talents???

        Like what some of us posted here – the Phillies young core players are in their prime — so the time to compete is NOW!!! Maybe Bohm, Howard, Medina, Jones, Stott, JoJo, etc are those young and cheap talents that good teams find and develop. But as of now, Middleton has no choice but to bite the bullet and acquire talent via $$$.

  47. It is more likely that Minor will be traded around the trade deadline next year. Minor had very good last 2 years but he is not getting younger so trading teams will view him as strictly as 1-year rental considering Minor will be close to 33 yo when he hits FA next year.

    On the other hand, TEX will not mind keeping Minor (and his friendly contract) and try to compete if not trade him (for prospects) or just QO (assuming Minor is still eligible) him for another year.

  48. And, just in case I sound like I want the team to go bankrupt spending to win, consider that in 2011, when we all thought we had the best team in the league, and we sold out every game, we drew about 3.7 Million people. This past year we drew about 900,000 less. So, let’s be conservative. Say every seat is worth $50 per person to the team. Our share of the ticket, the parking, the concessions, the merchandise. I don’t think that $50 is a far fetched number. That is an extra $45 Million in revenue, not counting Playoff revenue. I suggested spending to $220 as an example. That is $12Million more, plus that onerous 2.4 Million in LT, so about $14-15 Million more to get us back to selling out the Ballpark. We can add another SP, some BP help and build a bench that we cannot do with $4Million. Even if we don’t sell out, and only draw another 200,00, and don’t get to 3 Million in attendance, which I dispute, the extra money spent pays for itself. Of course the money has to be spent correctly. Please tell me where I am wrong.

    1. It will depend on the 2021 vesting option. Doobie or Quinn or Williams can be in play for NYY for Happ, Tanaka and prospects.

  49. Not 1 player, 3up, a better BP and a SP that is better than VV. A bench that is better than what we have now. That doesn’t make us a better team? What are you doing with the $4Million you have to spend now? And who are you competing with right now, with the assembled team? The Mets. And I fully acknowledge that we have not done nearly a good enough job drafting and developing players, but I don’t want to wait for them to fix that. What other big market team do you know that has not succeeded for 8 years? We competed last year, up until August. We competed in 2018, up until July. That is not the competing I want to do.

    1. So who are these better bullpen, starting pitchers, bench players that they are getting for the extra $20M? Cole Hamels is basically a #3 starter now and he alone cost the Braves $18 million. Top bullpen arms are running around $8-$12 million per season and quality bench players are $5-6 million (look at the Kendrick deal)..

      Adding those three pieces will cost $30M+ and that still doesn’t guarantee that this team is better than Atlanta or Washington.

  50. I can still see the Phillies operating within $220-228M in payroll (paying around $2.4M-$4M in surtax without R4 hit) so about $24M can still be made to improve the team. The $24M may not be enough so some players will be traded and I’m thinking of Neris ($4.7M), Vinny ($3.9M), Alvarez ($3M) and Morgan ($1.6M) for a total of about $10.5M of potential salary relief. Segura ($14M) and Doobie ($6.1M) are ideal but needs some creativity that Klentak is lacking.

    My magic number is $24.334M since I don’t see the Phillies operate below $208M as some reported.

    With that in mind, maybe Klentak can swap Doobie ($6.1M) and Vinny ($3.9M) contracts for Tanaka ($23M) + prospects (2 of Gil/Schmidt/Seigler/Volpe). NYY has enough depth in SP and I don’t see them resigning Tanaka next year, this trade saves NYY $13M in 2020 and add a warm body to their thin OF. For the Phillies, Tanaka is a one year risk with no future contractual obligation. Nick Williams or Roman Quinn for prospects is also a possibility for NYY.

    CWS is a potential target for Segura (and $ for prospects). CWS is planning to compete now with low contractual commitments and currently have Moncada/Anderson/Mendick for 2B/SS/3B positions. CWS can plug Segura in 2B, Anderson in SS and Moncada in 3B.

    Assuming that CWS is OK to absorb 1/3 of Segura’s contracts for non-top 15 prospects, the above 2 transactions will put the Phillies around $212M ($800K surtax) with potential 2 open roster spots for a bullpen arm and bench INF and $16M available before breaching the $228M level.

    1. Man you guys are really quick to throw insults at Klentak.

      There are a lot of positive things happening for the Phils but everyone still seems to be focused on the negatives. We won 82 games last year with all the things that went wrong. While we may not be favorites this team can easily compete for a world series as constructed just with the Wheeler and Didi additions and positive regressions+Health. That’s not even including Bohm and Howard potentially providing a huge boost.

      1. I forgot, Klentak is the day, the truth and the light. Klentak is so good that everything he touched turned into vanilla.

      2. Other than the fact that under his watch, the Phillies have never had a winning record and the their farm system has been in a free fall … Matt Klentak has been fantastic as the club’s GM.

        Some highlights (lowlights):

        * missed out on Charlie Morton TWICE. Klentak didn’t pick up his option after 2016 and then failed sign him as a FA last winter, despite the fact Morton wanted to play near his in-laws who live in Delaware.

        * cost the team second and third round draft picks for one year of Carlos Santana and the bloated contract of Jake Arrieta.

        * never used the club’s financial might to eat other team’s bad money in exchange for competitive balance draft picks (and the slot money they would have come with).

        * staffed a BP with Mike Morin, Jared Hughes, Blake Parker, and Nick Vincent at the trade deadline last season when the club was still in the hunt for a WC.

        I’m not saying Matt Klentak has never done anything right (gotta’ give him high marks for the Realmuto trade). I am saying this guy has been very vanilla and hasn’t done nearly enough (up to this point) to make the Phillies relevant. Look at the Phillies rebuild compared to the Braves rebuild. Even the Padres and CWS have waaay better young players as a result of their rebuilds.
        Middleton should have fired Klentak and MacPhail after the season and beaten the Red Sox to Chaim Bloom.

        1. I call Klentak as the ultimate “hedge” guy. Klentak likes to be manage risks so he likes to operate in the middle — which is basically purgatory. To win, FO needs to takes risks and Klentak doesn’t have the mindset of a high stake roller. Klentak is the type that will not drag any team down in the bottom —- but the rise to the top will be slow and methodical.

    2. ‘CWS can plug Segura in 2B’…..sorry KuKo…I think Rick Hahn has Madrigal slated to go there….probably mid-summer this season.,

  51. I wonder if Boras did Middleton a solid, told him where the Strasburg & Cole bid was going so they could pounce on Wheeler,
    To keep his boras Phillies clients happy

  52. I think it is wrong to assume that the Phillies need to spend past CBT Threshold to build a contending team. You need to understand what the rationale behind that reasoning. The answer is simple — the FO of McPhail and Klentak lack the ability to find sufficient MLB talents and lack the creativity to convert opportunities (Rule 4, Rule 5, IFA, trades, low $ FAs, etc) to talent. The failure in scouting and player development forced the Phillies to use $$ as a resource to add talent to the team.

    We can talk all night long how good teams find and develop young and cheap MLB talents. That’s not the case with McPhail and Klentak FO — most of us believed that these duo is not at par with the best in the league. McPhails and Klentak are Middleton decisions — so Middleton is just basically taking the consequence of not hiring a competent FO when he had the chance. He even double it down by extending McPhail and Klentak. The financial hit that Middleton will take is actually his own undoing.

    1. Understand the rationale but the Phillies have been doing exactly what is being asked. Some moves haven’t worked out and some were not popular but they have been made.

      2017:
      Signed Tommy Hunter – 2 year – $18 million
      Signed Pat Neshak – 2 year – $16.25 million
      Signed Carlos Santana – 3 year – $60 million

      2018:
      Signed Jake Arrieta – 3 year – $75 million
      Traded Carlos Santana for Jean Segura – $58 Million remaining on Contract
      Signed Andrew McCutchen – 3 year – $50 million
      Signed David Robertson – 2 year – $23 million
      Traded for JT Realmuto – $6M contract plus loss of Sixto Sanchez/Alfaro
      Signed Sean Rodriguez (had to throw him in there 🙂
      Signed Bryce Harper – 13 year – $330 Million

      2019:
      Signed Zack Weeler – 5 year – $118 Million
      Signed Didi Gregorous – 1 yr – $14 million

      So in the last 2+ off-seasons they have spent $769 million on acquiring players via trade or free agency. That is not a sustainable approach even in the short term.

      1. I agree that spending big $$ is not a sustainable way of winning. But the Phillies (Middleton in particular) appears blind to his own mistake —- trusting McPhail and Klentak. I’m confident to say that the whole MLB industry doesn’t think highly of McPhail and Klentak FO. The fact that the owner is making himself felt is an indicator of an inept FO. Middleton just needs not to be blind to realize his mistake —- he hired the wrong gentlemen to do the FO job. At some point Middleton will realize that when these big $$ spending starts to hit him hard.

        1. I think you are a lot more blind than you are accusing Middleton of being. See above list of all the moves the phillies have made. The farm has its issues but its also got us Realmuto and Segura and I think a lot of issues with the farm have to do with it being devoid of talent before Klentak got here and you are punishing him for that. He’s been here four years. Most people know that it usually takes 4-5 years for most players to make the majors but for some reason everyone thinks it’s easy to say how awful Klentak is.

          Oh and about the comment about MLB not thinking highly of our front office. Take note of how fast Gabe got a job right away after he was fired.

          1. If I’m blind then you need to wake up. The Phillies finished 4th in the NL East — you spin and spin it around finish 4th in your own division is a colossal failure at any level despite drafting in the Top 10 for 5 straight years and the ownership spending too much money. Can you even remember when is the last time played in the playoffs?

            There are 3-4 teams rebuilding at the time at the Phillies. How’s the Phillies young and controllable players compared to those teams?

          2. LOL Gabe was so highly thought of that a team planning to lose a 100 games next year picked him right up. Farhan knows Gabe better than anyone and said hey buddy you’re the right man for the job.

            I mean the other finalist for that job was a guy that was bench coach last season on a club that one 100+ LOL

            That said Bosss I admire you’re courage in defending MK heck I went against the grain for years on RAJ.

  53. The fact is, there are no guarantees and no set way to win a title. I’m not saying that the big spenders don’t have an advantage, they definitely do. The probability to win a title for them is definitely higher than say the Blue Jays or Marlins. If paying the tax is an easy way to get a title, then a lot more teams would be doing it. The Yankees routinely paid tax when Steinbrenner was alive, and after 2000, they have 1 title to show for it.

    The Phillies may be big market, but they will never be Boston or NY. Let’s get that out of the way. And winning titles are hard. Anything can derail your chances. So if paying tax only incrementally increases your chances, then why do it. Field the best team that you can under the tax and roll with that. If it’s not enough, it’s not enough.

    And finally, as fans, it’s not our money being spent on the payroll. Sure, some of us may have season tickets but you can’t compare season ticket costs to spending say an extra $20M. These owners want to win just as much as we do, but I’m pretty sure they want to make the most profit they can too. And even though Middleton may be the majority owner, I’m sure some of the minority owners still have some say in running the team. And I’m certain that some of them don’t want to pay the tax.

  54. Guru, what is the difference between “if it’s not enough, it’s not enough,” and “if we win we win, if we don’t we don’t”? The point is to win and sustain a winning organization.The point isn’t to do the best you can and keep it under $208, but let’s pretend that we are doing everything that we can to win. They have, so far, failed to build up the farm system, and they have had many opportunities to do so. Hinkie highlighted some. Why didn’t they use their financial resources to add picks by taking on bad contracts when we were rebuilding? Because they didn’t have the foresight or thought process to do so. I don’t expect to win the WS this year. But, I do expect to be in the Playoffs and have the ability to win a series. Does anyone think we are there right now? 3up, there are Betances and Wil Harris and Sergio Romo for the BP. They would all help. There is Dallas Keuchel for the Rotation. He is better than VV. Of course, Alex Wood and Drew Smyly are as well, and they cost less. There are trades to explore. There are bench pieces to add, all of which can be done for less than $25Million. Guarantees? There are none. But the team would be better. And, I am not attacking Klentak. I think he does make a trade or 2. My objection is that the $208M barrier is a fake one. The team can, without question, afford it. And it wasn’t the fan base that made lousy draft picks like Larry Greene and Corny Randolph, or failed to develop Pitching. 8 years isn’t enough time to put a team on the field that can win the Division? That’s my fault for being negative? Or is it the fault of the people running the team I root for? Paying more than they want to is part of the price they have to pay for failing in so many other areas.

    1. Really, Adding Dallas Keuchel, Sergio Romo, and a bench piece would make the difference that puts the team ahead of Atlanta and Washington??

      It seems that those complaining about spending more money real issue is with the Phillies management team. I’m not sure how those same mismanaging buffoons are expected to spend the extra money correctly?

      Also, current management (and ownership) hasn’t been in charge for 8 years so not sure how they are responsible for the mess they inherited. Klentak has been on the job since October 2015 so he’s responsible for what’s happened since then, not before..

      1. Should also add that Keuchel got $13m from the Braves for 3-months so I expect he will be getting approx. $15-$18 million per year from someone. Not exactly bargain bin…

    2. “Why didn’t they use their financial resources to add picks by taking on bad contracts when we were rebuilding? “…just as the Giants did today by taking on Cozart from the Angels…..but also prospect ss Will Wilson…great deal by Zaidi.

      1. Like the Phillies did by taking the contract of Matt Harrison as part of the Cole Hamels trade to increase the prospect return?

        Again, you can complain about the players they got back but that was the reason he was included…

        1. Correct.
          But guess who made that deal?
          The Rubenator, not Matt Klentak.
          I think matt13 was just addressing Matt Klentak’s oversight in tactical moves….same issues as Hinkie and I have addressed ad nausea for the last 2/3 years.
          He needed to be more aggressive in keeping the farm foundation stronger.

    3. At this point, nobody has an idea about how the season will play out. So you do the best you can with what you have, and you roll with it. If you want to know why the Phillies are not paying tax, then perhaps you should ask one of the local beat writers, or get somebody to ask Middleton that question.

      I’m not blaming the Phillies for being fiscally responsible. In the end, the Phillies are still a BUSINESS. Sure, the Phillies can pay tax. Heck, I’m 100% sure Jeffery Loria can have a $100M payroll for the Marlins. It doesn’t mean that they have to do it. Just because they can afford to do it, doesn’t mean they have to do it. As owners, it’s their choice. If you don’t like it, you can always switch teams.

      Let’s just say for the next 15 years, the Phillies go nuts and pay $20M per year for taxes and they snag 1 title. So grabbing that title is great, but is it worth the extra $300M? Why is this scenario relevant? Because this is pretty much what the Yankees endured from 2003-2017, where they paid approximately $338M in taxes and got 1 title out of it.

  55. 3up. I never called anyone a buffoon. I praised Klentak. And John Middleton has been a part of the ownership group for way more than 8 years. I appreciate and respect everyone’s opinion on this site, but you are misstating what I said. Maybe I wasn’t clear? I said that Keuchel, or a few other SPs, Romo or Betances or Wil Harris and a Holt or Miller for the bench makes us a better team than we are today. Not better than Atlanta or Washington, but certainly better able to compete. I want to make the Playoffs and be in a position to win a series. Maybe an Alec Bohm or Spencer Howard are contributing by then. Whoever you would like to blame for the past 8 years isn’t the point. There are things Klentak didn’t do, but I applaud the moves he made. I didn’t think he was right in not adding Pitching last year. I think he should have done better addressing the BP after injuries decimated it. I wanted Keuchel in June. And as long as he is the GM of this team, I will hope that I am wrong, and we are good enough, and root for him and everyone else associated with this team. And I still think Middleton will spend what it takes.

    1. My mistake if I misunderstood/misrepresented what you were saying and my comments were not solely directed at your post so I incorporated the opinions of others in my response. I understand that we are all Phillies fans and wish the best for the team but sometimes disagree on how that gets done.

      I agree with you that there are things that Klentak could have/should have done that were missed opportunities but I also think they are trying to put the best team they can on the field within the constraints of both budget and reality. My real disagreement is that while I agree that the players you mention would make them better in 2020 they are not enough to matter.

      I also think that Middleton is willing to go over the tax threshold when they think it will matter. I’m just not sure they are in a place where there are moves to be made that can make up the difference (unless they are willing to go up to $250 million or so by going after Rendon/Bumgardner) so getting themselves into the penalty situation now would be a mistake.

  56. Dodgers look to strike out now on Rendon…maybe now Donaldson.

    Ken Rosenthal

    @Ken_Rosenthal

    #Dodgers pessimistic on chances of landing free-agent third baseman Anthony Rendon, sources tell The Athletic. #Rangers remain heavily involved. #Angels also interested, too. #Nationals a long shot; Rendon balked at deferrals in their initial seven-year, $210M-$215M offer.
    2:47 PM – Dec 11, 2019

    1. I won’t be surprised if the Dodgers were to land Lindor or Arenado…

      They certainly have the prospect cache to get either and the $$$ to pay them.

      1. Indians from what I have been reading want Lux and May……Dodgers should just do it. They have a deep farm and can easily make up for the May loss n the pitching area.
        Dodgers then can try to move Seager if they want to.

        1. Get Bryant for 3b and then move to LF when Bohm comes up. What can we trade; Miller, Segura, Herrera and Garcia?

          1. If the Dogers get Lindor….why not just try to get Seager for third from the Dodgers…they will take a lot less than the Cubs for Bryant…and he is controlled and younger.
            He led the NL last year in doubles with 44, so he still has OPS pop.

            1. I don’t like Seager he’s like his brother he can’t seem to stay on the field. Another Tulo perhaps.

              I read this morning that Bryant is now ready/open to talk extension. I do like him as a LF but then you have to move Cutch and I also don’t think you land Bryant without one of Bohm and Howard and I’m not keen to do that.

            2. Miller, DeLos Santos, Garcia, Williams and Moniak.

              Brant at 3b first year and then move to LF with Cutch being 4th OF in 2021.

            3. DMAR….that certainly is an issue with him and his brother….injury prone….I suppose enough tribulation with Roman now, perhaps anymore we be over the top.

  57. McKlentak quotes as saying Haseley is our starting CF and he expects Quinn to push for PT if healthy. Says that any roster needs balance of expensive and cheap young players. I agree. This makes sense and I hope Haseley has a big bump from year 1 to 2 offensively. There are signs that he can make that bump.

    The biggest sign was that his strike out rate and walk rate materially got worse in his rookie year compared to his pretty steady performance across all of his minor leagues. It is not uncommon to see those rates get a little worse in the majors. But not to the degree that happened to Haseley. He is a contact hitter with a good eye. I expect his walk rate to rebound to near 10% which is what it was at most minor league levels. And I expect his k rate to drop below 20%, again nearing his minor league levels. I don’t think that he will ever hit 20+ homers. But I expect him to be a 275/360/440 guy. Which, with his defense and cheap contract would be a valuable player. How about a comp of a young Whit Merrifield for Haseley? Just a solid, productive, good defensive player who is good in the clubhouse.

    Adding Quinn as a backup is an electric option off the bench.

    1. Haseley’s minor league metrics are oddly very comparable to Utley’s.

      AH…..PAs-1027….slash-292/.360/.798….16%-K….8%-BB
      CU….PAs- 1991….slash-280/.355/.817….16%-K….9%-BB

      1. I would like to see them swoop in and nab Bumgarner. It’s pretty obvious that we are not going to have a super offense so why not go the pitching route.

        Bumgarner added to Nola, Wheeler should give you 3 starters that routinely give you 7 innings a game thus materially improving your BP. Slotting Arietta and Eflin to the 4-5 role.

        Lux tax be damned!

      2. Yes but his swing is very different. Utley had a compact, quick swing with an upward attack angle. Haseley has a longer swing with a downward or more level attack angle.

        1. Yeah….they do have different plate mechanics.
          Haseley also with a more inside-out contact thru the zone
          I will like to see what changes for Haseley this season..

      3. I know I am repetitive with this about Haseley but once more I don’t think Utley ever hit 8th in his life and Haseley probably hasn’t either before last season.

        Hitting in front of the pitcher is one of the toughest spots in the line-up to hit.

        Chooch as a catcher was one of the best I’ve seen. He could process quickly the situation as to whether or not he was going to see pitches to hit or be pitched around.

        1. Looks like, at this point with this roster, Haseley will be hitting 7th or 8th depending on how Joe wants to use the leftie/righty game plan approach.
          Will be challenging for him.

      1. Yeah, I read the article. Not much there about we have your back and are looking to help you through this……more along the lines of we have to pay you so we’ll use as we wish and by the way you missed a year so maybe you should start up at LHV.

    1. In a perfect world/draft, Asa Lacy or Zac Veen slide to the Phillies at 1-15. They don’t in this mock. I would take JT Ginn (slotted at 1-16 in the above mock) before Tanner Burns. Burl Carraway (LHRP from DBU) is a guy I liked for the Phillies second round pick. After losing that pick (Wheeler signing), I’d also consider him at 1-15.

    1. If Wacha stays healthy and regains his health fully, then that is a good signing.
      Their pitching staff has to be ranked near the top of MLB right now and maybe eual or better than their cross-town rivals…. if Severino again has health issues in 2020.

      1. Yep on paper 2 pretty low risk high reward moves by them. We don’t talk much about the Mets naturally. The Braves won the division and the Nats the WS but they are a team to be reckoned with having the likes of DeGrom and Thor.

        They ranked 11th in OPS last season and 11th in Pitching and most of their pitching woes were Diaz.

        1. They also lost Wheeler from the rotation and I don’t think Alonzo will repeat the season he had in 2019 so I expect they will take a step back in 2020.

          Also found it funny that there was a story on MLB trade rumors that the Nationals have looked at Starlin Castro or Mikael Franco as potential replacements at 3b for Rendon if they cannot find other options..

          1. Donaldson should be the next position player to sign. Big ticket that is. The Nats have never been afraid to call on a young player and Kieboom may be just that guy. I can see him as their 3B or 2B next year so Franco or Castro as depth makes some sense

            Hopefully for our sake Donaldson stays out of the NL East.

            Also not sure how much of the winter meetings you guys get to watch but yesterday Vasgersian and Reynolds interviewed a couple of scouts that won awards.

            One was a Nats scout by the name of Jon Depuglia. They asked him who’s a guy that got away from you that you regret not signing and without hesitation he says Ronald Acuna Jr.

            He goes on to tell how he had met him at a camp and had a verbal agreement at a number and then just a few hours later he and his camp said the Braves were offering more. He says I could have stepped up but I didn’t.

            I just kept thinking “why is this guy not in our FO”

  58. I was surprised that Blake Treinen got $10M. I know we were not going there. But, there are still a number of FA RPs that we should be looking at. I can’t believe they will try to make a BP out of what we currently have even with the salary cap constraints.

  59. Speaking of the BP. Is there a Rule V guy we could grab that might work? Can we even take a player? I am not sure of the rules, so can the 40 Man still be maneuvered to allow us to pick a player?

  60. Phillies select Vimael Machin (2B Cubs) in rule 4 draft. Not sure if they’ll keep him or trade him for J2 money.

    Red Sox pick former Phillie Jonathan Arauz from the Astros.

  61. Nobody took Alec Hansen. Just a few years ago, he was a top college draft pick. He walked a ton of guys last season but he could be a really useful pitcher…..some day.

  62. Looks like Austin Romine is heading for Detroit.
    Rangers are reportedly “likely out” on Josh Donaldson, based on GM Jon Daniels comments.

  63. Since we are not in on Donaldson, the next best thing is that he goes to the AL, not back to the Braves. There has to be one of the lower priced SPs coming here, doesn’t there? How about a trade? There are no rumors at all in that regard.

    1. matt13…trade rumors probably pick up next week…these last almost two weeks were free agent players and their agents winter meetings get together with GMs.

  64. Given the timeline and intention to contend, I don’t really expect the Phillies to dip in the Rule 5 to add talent to roster.

    The Phillies still need a SP, RP and a back up INF or any elite MLB talent regardless of the position. Treinen was way overpaid at $10M and MadBum will probably insist on a $100M contract. I’m not high on Matt Boyd unless the return is something like Enyel delos Santos (#7) + Duran (#17) and Parkinson (#18).

    Alex Wood ($9M), Drew Smyly ($4M) are still my targets at SP and RP and see how the back up INF play out early next year although I like the Phillies to at Joe Panik, Starlin Castro and Ronald Torreyes (bounce back year) as possible INF options.

    Given the holes that needs to be addressed, the $208M CBT Threshold is bound to be breached. It will really depend on how much Middleton wants to stretch between $208M to $228M.

    1. Once again there was no player any team coveted from our minor leagues. SF last at least 3, and I thought they had a weak system. So much for the tough decisions of who we should protect.

      1. tony…Yankees lost 5/6 in the entire draft….majors and minors…Phillies and Mets none.
        Not sure that is an indictment on the quality of the farm…or the fact Phillies had a lot of better lower level players in the system who are not yet Rule 5 eligible.

    2. I think Matt K has his sights on Tigers’ 29-year old lefty Matt Boyd.
      What the Tigers will accept in return is tricky.
      They need young controlled hitters and probably want a pitcher also in return.
      And finally can see them asking for a young catcher…Marchan or O’Hoppe

      Boyd did give up AL lead HRs last season with 39, almost 2 per 9 innings, so that has to be taken into consideration…plus his FIP is not outstanding…4.3 last season and overall 4.7 for his career so far.

      1. @romus – the HR and FB rates are my main concern with Matt Boyd. Matt Boyd is OK, but he is no better than #4. Matt Boyd can miss bats and has good command but his stuff is not impressive. FB is average, SL is above-average and CU is inconsistent.

        1. KuKo…almost all the lefties on the available trade market have warts.
          So there are inherent risks.
          Matt Klentak will need to determine if he wants to take that risk.
          I am not keen on Boyd either…prefer trying to get Freeland….but if the Tigers are willing, at the right price, to let him go or even Norris…why not.

    3. I think they needed a couple of more starting pitchers way more than they needed Didi. I’m still hoping/wondering if a Segura trade will occur if the team doesn’t want to exceed the luxury tax limit.

      I also have a lot of concerns about the ignored mix and match bullpen.

      It seems to me like they are still ignoring the pitching too much.

  65. KuKo, Do you think they exceed the $208? I know there has been a lot of debate, and I have expressed my opinion. But, every article I read references it, and if it is a negotiating ploy, they sure have me concerned. I can see Klentak trying to trade for a SP, but where does the BP and bench come from?

  66. @matt13 – i think so. I can see the Phillies operating around $220M. I might be wrong here but I think the luxury tax is calculated based on the payroll at the end of the season so the Phillies can start above the $208M and unload contracts during the season (if the season doesn’t go well) to go down $208M if they really want to avoid paying the luxury tax.

    1. With guaranteed contracts in baseball it does become a little more difficult navigating away from the tax threshold as the season moves along…however if they can do it by Dec 2nd , 2020, it will be to their benefit.

      ARTICLE XXIII—Competitive Balance Tax
      A. General Definitions
      (11) “Actual Club Payroll” shall be defined as provided in Section C below. Each Club’s final Actual Club Payroll for a Contract
      Year in which the Competitive Balance Tax is applicable shall be
      calculated on the December 2 following that Contract Year and shall
      be the exclusive figure used for the purpose of determining whether
      a Club has exceeded the Base Tax or Surcharge Thresholds.

      1. ….and wait a dog gone minute….we will lose Arrieta’s and Robertson’s salaries by Dec 2, 2020….that’s about $35M right there. So all the more reason to spend now….no?

        1. Its the amount of money spent on the year for contracts as of December, 2020 not what obligations they still have as of that date in December 2020.. The purpose is so players acquired during the season also count towards the tax threshold.

          The FA contracts that drop off after the season still count towards this years cap as do the contact $$ paid during the season for guys who might get traded mid-season..

          1. 3up, I asked the question below, and I think you answered it. So, the number, approx. $4.5 Million that we are currently projected to be under the LT is the correct amount? I believe you are correct. Thank you for the clarification.

  67. I still expect a trade or two but the return could be very small. I expect them to move Williams and either Pivetta or Vinnie plus a minor league pitcher (Jo Jo or DLS maybe) in one or two deals. The return won’t be great but it will be something. I still want them to try and sign Starlin Castro but I don’t think he’d mentally ready to be a bench player. I’m resigned to the fact that Drew Smyly might end up as our SP. He’s not good but he’s cheap. As for the pen, they’re going to sign 1 or 2 cheap guys. Hunter maybe back… Something to remember about the bullpen is that Arano, Morgan and Dominguez were all hurt last year. To just assume they’ll all be back healthy is negligent.

  68. What it takes to get Kris Bryant pried from the Cubbies:

    David O’Brien

    @DOBrienATL

    Talking with someone close to #Cubs, sounds like 2 pitching prospects and a bat would get it done for Bryant. They’re assuming he loses grievance & has 2 yrs left before free agency). #Braves match up better than other potential suitors if they’re willing to part with prospects.
    3:11 PM – Dec 11, 2019

  69. I wasn’t not aware of that Luxury Tax rule. So, if we lose Arrieta’s and Robertson’s salaries before Dec. 2, 2020, and we account for the new JTR contract to kick in, we have an extra $14-15 Million to use this off season and still not pay the LT? Am I expressing that correctly? There would, then, seem to be no LT concerns as we still have $18M to play with. Why doesn’t that sound right?

    1. “Why doesn’t that sound right?”
      I read like you, but….because when something sounds too good to be true…it normally is.

      Jim …….perhaps can sort this out.

      1. Jim already has. He said we aren’t going over the cap. Nobody seems to want to listen though.

        I’ve always thought everything was prorated. I definitely remember at the trade deal line calculations on how much a team could take on.

        1. That was not what matt13 and I were referencing….going over the threshold is not the issue….utilizing the CBA’s Dec 2nd cut-off day as finalization of contract monies, to remain under the threshold was the discussion.

          Making trades with players who have big contracts thru the year to lower the payroll by the Dec 2nd date, that will only benefit a team.
          The problem occurs when all other teams are trying to do the same.
          So a team close to the threshold may try to make trades with teams well below the threshold since they may be more willing to take on contracts…but it comes at a price…normally young prospects.

          1. Right….if, for example, the Yankees would trade Stanton at the deadline in 2020, they would have to include a top prospect or 2 in order for the trading partner team to take on much of his salary and NYY to get back under the luxury tax line after signing Cole this winter.

          2. Yankees probably will trade Happ and his $17M hit.
            Stanton and his long extended contract would be a bigger and more difficult sale.

    2. moves made after the season in regards to 2020 options, etc arent going to impact the 2019 luxury tax. if they somehow moved Arrietta during the season and the other team took on all/some of his remaining dollars for 2019, they would have more room for 2019.

    1. rocco…If you hear footsteps on your rooftop….they ain’t reindeer….they is 82nd rappelling soldiers.

  70. Makes sense, and I would then expect the Angels to make a big push for Ryu. They need him and a Keuchel. I have conditioned myself that we are not adding one of them, so looking at the trade market. What would it take for Ray? Can it get done without Bohm and/or Howard, because they are off limits. I would be really inclined to add Stott and Miller to that short list. Also,shouldn’t some team be trying to get a chance to bring out the potential of Nick Williams? It wouldn’t take a big return. Maybe Norris from Detroit?

    1. Yes, a very enjoyable…AND ENCOURAGING…read. Loving me some Johan Rojas! Moniak and Muzziotti figure to be major league role players, possibly platoons depending on the roster construction.

      As for Bohm, I respect Jim Peyton’s perspective and understand that the kid is a hard worker. However, I have seen so many scouting reports mentioning his eventual shift across the diamond. Stott, OTOH, seems to profile as a truer 3b. And I’m excited about his energy level, not to mention his likely tutelage under fellow Vegasian, Bryce Harper.

      Can’t wait for Spencer Howard to arrive!

      1. Brent does a lot of scouting personally. He follows the Phillies org closely. Not sure if he is a Phillies fan too. But he writes about Phils prospects a lot. He typically has a balanced view of guys.

    1. I love this list and am thrilled to see Kendall Simmons on it. He has as large of a boom or bust differential as any player in the system. The ceiling is literally something like Jose Ramirez or Miguel Tejada. He’s not likely to reach that ceiling of course, but he has crazy-high potential.

      1. Still think besides Bohm my guy will be a major league hitter, but don’t know if he will have a position. I know he is a better hitter than Moniak, and some others mention ,Josh did hit 272 with a 342 obp and 12 hr. as a young 21 yr old

  71. Former Nova grad and an all around good guy. He can still play good D, but i don’t know if he can hit as well as Bamboo Brad. Szczur should join Gosselin and Harrison , Bruce and Quinn along with Knapp as the bench. We will see if that is an improvement over last year. Still need BP help, and Klentak has mentioned another waiver wire claim or trade or FA signing, and maybe they will look at 1 or 2. I think the trade is for a SP and may not happen until ST. I don’t see them going the trade for Ken Giles route .

    1. Sczcur has historically hit well vs LHP’s and according to Jim Salisbury, with a good spring might serve well as a platoon in CF with Haseley….but that’s a big maybe.

  72. Listening to Joe Girardi this afternoon talking with the guys from NY on WFAN…a very enjoyable interview.
    –he is excited about the two top starters…Nola and Wheeler
    –has seen plenty of Phillies games this past two season and hopes he has the strategy to try to avoid collapses deep into the second half
    –just too many injuries to the bullpen this past season and hopeful they regain their health
    –went from a Marlins team with little to no analytics to a Yankees team that was deep into analytics
    –enjoys marrying up the ‘eye’ observation with the analytic metrics.
    –as a player had his own analytic database….’Binder Joe’ as referred to when he was a MLB catcher….data on all MLB hitters.

  73. Regarding the debate over whether the Phillies should exceed the luxury tax threshold, Kevin Cooney nailed it with his PhillyVoice piece this afternoon.

  74. Keith Law’s chat today:

    Tony: It feels like the Phillies are throwing away so much value by constantly moving Kingery around defensively, and now with the Gregorious signing, there’s talk he’ll be playing third instead of second. Why won’t they just put him at second and let him excel?

    Keith Law: That’s also what I would do, but Segura has never played 3b anywhere in pro ball. They needed a shortstop, so they got one, and now they have two second basemen and no current third baseman. If Segura can play third, problem solved. If not, they may put Kingery at third, where his arm doesn’t play, and now we have a new problem.

    1. More from KLaw chat:

      Moe Mentum: Any predictions on where Odubel Herrera will be when spring training starts – or ends?
      Keith Law: Not with the Phillies. I wonder if some awful team – the Tigers, the Orioles – will decide he’s worth the backlash, because he has ability and they’d probably just be able to take him off the Phils’ hands for nothing. (I wouldn’t do so, but I’m saying someone probably will.)

      1. I hope the ‘nothing’ is at least international money….Os have, in the past, parted with it for far less than Herrera’s talents.
        Now if a team can handle the PR issue in another thing.

    2. Law agrees with me – I don’t understand the middle infield set up. If Segura isn’t moved they spent their money in a foolish way given their other needs. I can’t tell what they are doing but they continue to neglect their larger pitching needs.

  75. Nola, Wheeler, Arrieta, Eflin….?????

    Let’s assume the Phillies will acquire another starting pitcher because…well, they need one. And let’s assume they are targeting a LHP.

    At a glance, the following may be had:
    Drew Smyly (a re-sign) or via trade – Robbie Ray, Danny Duffy, Kyle Freeland (a Romus favorite, although his name hasn’t been in trade winds), David Price (no, thanks), Matthew Boyd, Daniel Norris, Caleb Smith. I’ll refrain from listing my personal favorite, Mike Minor, since the Rangers are supposedly trying to contend in 2020.

    It doesn’t look like Bumgarner is in their sites, obviously. I’m doubtful that Ryu would sign here since Philly isn’t an Asian preferred destination.

    I share the concern of several others here, that Klentak may yet neglect the starting rotation despite the Wheeler signing. The bullpen doesn’t bother me aside from the need for a legit closer. I trust Joe Girardi will push for, and get, what he wants in terms of supporting players. The biggest X factor to me is how well Arrieta pitches after recovering from his elbow. As much as I don’t like the guy, personally, he knows how to pitch and my hope is that for one full season, he might be able to re-invent himself. Eflin may return to his late 2019 form since he won’t have Chris Young messing with his repertoire. Same for Nola. Meanwhile, Klentak has unfinished business. He can’t rely on ‘what if’s?’. His job is on the line. Plus his mouth wrote a check his actions had better be able to cash.

    1. 8mark….you summed it up pretty much.
      Lets look at other LHPs out there via free agency.
      Dallas Keuchel
      Gio
      Rich Hill
      Matt Moore
      Alex Wood
      Jason vargas
      Wade Miley
      …getting excited yet over any of them?

      1. Keuchel would have been better than getting nobody last year, which is exactly what Klentak did. But now? Forget it. Alex Wood is the closest to anything I would take on as a low risk high reward arm. Everybody else is rotation filler on a bad team.

      2. Would put Vinnie and Pivetta at top of that list and sprinkle De Los Santos and Irvin in the middle. Put down pencils and Close book.

    2. In an era of 5-6 inning pitchers with lots of strikeouts and pitches by starting pitchers, Vinnie might be as good as it gets for a #5 SP. Stay with him.

  76. 8mark, to me, the bigger issue is that I see the SR as Nola, Wheeler, a big hole, Arrieta, Eflin. We have 12 guys who could audition for job #5, but that doesn’t help. I take Smyly over nothing, and I would look at Alex Wood, who has ability when he is healthy, but I like Dallas Keuchel. He would require exceeding that onerous salary cap and its team strangling penalties, but would not require a lot of years. I think the trade route is where Klentak goes. I simply refuse to believe they are done addressing Pitching.

  77. I’m watching College Gameday (ESPN) this morning. Joe Girardi and Rhys Hoskins made an appearance on top of a tank (down in rocco’s neighborhood). They’re both going to their first Army-Navy game today.

  78. To change topics, I wonder what other people think of MLB’s plan to walk away from the current Minor League agreement? I believe that if MLB does this then their Anti-Trust Federal Exemption should be revoked and this will be a national issue from MLB will lose badly and have a hard time recovering from. MLB owners should replace the current commissioner and work out a reasonable
    Compromise.

    1. Philabaltfan…..I think the Commissioner’s idea is to have baseball develop its feeder program similar to the NBA and NFL….that is, depend more so, not 100% however, on the colleges in developing the players which will produce a more physically mature player and a better ball player when it comes to baseball nuances and skills. Also assuming the players are more emotionally and behaviorally matured.

      The Rule 4 draft is now being moved to Omaha Neb , and it will occur three days before the College World Series begins….he is hoping the interest among the casual public…not so much diamond nerds like us… will pick up.

      Now whether or not MLB gets get sued for downsizing the minor league structure remains to be seen

  79. Romus, I don’t understand how much of a negative effect losing a Minor League team has on the local economy. I am certain someone has done those studies. But, if it is dramatic, like I believe, how does MLB not expect a negative reaction? I know, since I have family in SW Florida, that the Ft. Myers Miracle, for instance, has always been a big draw.

    1. matt13……he does not want to cut out the entire minor league system…..
      I thought I recall somewhere it says he wants it to be trimmed down to:.
      -one Triple A team, one Double A, one single A and a rookie equivalent team for each club
      I also think he wants to let the teams keep their academies/teams in the DR during the DSL.
      So the short-season teams will suffer the loss….Williamsport for the Phillies and the low A teams….Lakewood.

      1. Romus, good points brought up by you and others but MLB already had a black eye regarding overtime pay for minor leaguers. MLB can not win this argument especially when cities/towns spent a lot of money for modern stadiums. Social Media will make this a big issue as MLB will look foolish with their current arguments and lose support in any small market area. This may not be a major problem at first but it will be when teenagers start skipping baseball as their sport and the talent becomes less available. Lastly, this could start a backlash among small town fans against baseball like the 1994 baseball strike and lead to reduced revenues/increased losses.

      2. I think this idea will help in one aspect. The independent leagues will be bigger and they can sell higher to major league for prospects. It can become a bidding war for players

  80. There was a column written in noted baseball journal Forbes that was comparing the likely value of the Pujols (disasterous) signing by LAA with newly signed free agent Rendon, and as an afterthought contrasted Rendon’s elite hitting prowess with Eduardo Escobar based on fly ball frequency, launch angle, and velocity. Am not sure I understand it(OK, somewhat sure don’t understand it). But if true, perhaps a trade with Arizona might solve the 3rd base dilemma, if the Phils can come up with a package to aid Arizona’s corner outfield and 1st base issues.

    1. I wanted him BAD at the last deadline, when the Twins sent him to AZ, but we got Cabrera instead. This isn’t a hindsight 20/20 thing either; AZ simply had the foresight to see that he was gonna break out in a big way, while we missed yet another great opportunity to upgrade the infield for minimal cost. I don’t criticize Klentak as much as most do, but this non-move still irks me. Now, though, it would be impossible to pry him away from AZ, particularly as he is now on a ridiculously team-friendly contract for the next two seasons.

  81. So, assuming this works out the way the commissioner outlined it. Each organization will have approximately 60 less players. The end result will be less high schoolers drafted and less college players players drafted, but the proportion to less will be more apparent with the high school ranks. Having said that:

    It should require better pre-draft prep and scouting by teams.

    Many HS players who don’t see college will be left out unless they are exceptional.
    Marginal players will be on a shorter leash and have even shorter careers.
    It should mean a quicker path to the majors.
    Pressure will be like never before to perform.

    I can see a lot of things that can impact MLB by doing this, not to mention legal action by the union. What do you guys think.

  82. The last thing I want is the politicians to get involved in the MiLB/MLB negotiations… You can be assured the situation would go from bad to worse…

  83. Corey Kluber to the Rangers for Delino DeShields and a reliever. I know Kluber was injured but it was a fractured forearm not elbow or shoulder problems. He was one of the best SPs in the league for 5 years before that. Seems like a really good trade for Texas and not a huge price to pay? I know we weren’t in on him but it makes me wonder how expensive a Robbie Ray could be?

    1. matt13…… good news for Matt Klentak now….with Deshields headed out, the Rangers may not be ready to give the CF job entirely to Leody Taveras, who is a light hitting speedy CF….perhaps Jon Daniels will take on Odubel Herrera …he always liked him as an original Ranger farmhand.
      Would be great to get something for Odubel….international dollars at least.

      1. Seems like a small price to pay imo. 17mil for someone of Kkubers caliber, seems like a missed opportunity from the Phils FO. The guy is playoff tested, one of my favorite players in the league. After Strasburg, Cole, and wheelers salaries, very good pickup for Tex. I wonder what LAA offered because that’s a good gamble for them as well.

        I think Herrera is in play is for them now, unless they go cheaper.

        1. Tac3…when teams have to move salaries, because they are small market or just want to avoid the lux tax., and they have what they think are reliable ‘ spare parts to replace the asset’, then you get these , what seems as, lopsided trade of resources.
          Indians have the pitchers….and may get a little richer in youthful talent if and when they move Lindor to the Dodgers for probably RHP May and Lux or Seager.

        1. He started 22 games in CF in 2019…..with a negative 3 runs saved….I think they will want a better defender out there.

    2. The Rangers assume the entirety of Kluber’s contract, $17.5M in 2020 and an $18M club option in 2021. Also, Kluber’s velocity was down and he was hit hard in early 2019, before his injury. Plus, he’s going into his age 34 season. All those factors lowered the return for Kluber.

  84. Salary relief would be huge Ronus! Texas is trying to win in new stadium and may view Doobie as a reclamation project.

  85. MadBum to DBacks! 5 years, don’t know $. I think the Kluber trade helps Indians keep Lindor. What does Dbacks move mean for a Ray trade?

Comments are closed.