Open Discussion: Week of August 6th

The Phillies had a bad week, almost a very bad week, going 2-5.  They started with a series-ending victory over the Braves before going on the road.  They were swept by the Angels in Anaheim and were on their way to being swept by the Rockies until a ninth inning rally produced their second win of the week.  They have a 40-69 record and a .367 PCT.  

The Phillies are 6 games into a brutal scheduling sequence.  After the Rockies game they are traveling to Atlanta where they will have an off day and a 2-game series, then home for 4 games against the Mets, then back out west for 3 games against the Padres and 4 against the Giants.  Their next off day is on August 21st.

The Phillies are 25.0 games out of first place in the East Division.  They are 9.0 games behind the fourth place Mets. They are 22.0 games behind the Diamondbacks in the Wild Card race.

Now, the race we might have a chance to win –

Bottom 10 Teams W L PCT GB L10 STRK PCT 7/31 Net Gain/Loss
Philadelphia 40 69 0.367 5-5 W1 0.373
Chi White Sox 41 68 0.376 1.0 2-8 L6 0.392 1.0
San Francisco 44 69 0.389 2.0 4-6 W2 0.377 -2.0
Cincinnati 45 66 0.405 4.0 4-6 L2 0.400 -2.0
San Diego 49 61 0.445 8.5 6-4 L1 0.448 -1.0
Oakland 50 62 0.446 8.5 6-4 W2 0.438 -2.0
NY Mets 49 60 0.450 9.0 2-8 L4 0.466 0.5
Atlanta 51 59 0.464 10.5 3-7 L1 0.466 -1.0
Detroit 51 59 0.464 10.5 6-4 L2 0.456 -2.0
Toronto 52 59 0.468 11.0 5-5 L1 0.467 -1.5

The Phillies’ difficult week caused most teams to fall back.  However, the White Sox did close to within 1.0 game back.  The Sox jettisoned several good players before the trade deadline and will likely be difficult to beat out in the “race for last place”.   In spite of the beginning of the Phillies’ road trip, and in spite of their moving some of their veteran players, I remained unconvinced that they will begin losing at a greater rate with young players filling new roles (although, Aaron Altherr’s loss is vexing).

In addition to the White Sox, the Phillies must contend with a bad Giants team and a perennially tanking Reds squad.  The race to 1:1 remains interesting.

And a reminder that this is a Phillies’ prospects site, a future Phillies site if you will.  So, it is not uncommon for readers to seemingly root against the big league club.  Bonus money, both Amateur Draft and International FA, is the currency for rebuilding an organization. The lower a major league team finishes the more Rule 4 money a team will receive (International money fixed allotments are defined in the CBA).

If a team isn’t going to make the playoffs, it makes sense to finish as low as possible to maximize the money received to spend on draft picks.  Now, major league players, managers, and coaches don’t care about this and we can be assured that they are playing to win.  But, that doesn’t stop fans from rooting for the best possible outcome for their teams, even when that means hoping they lose.  And, they certainly shouldn’t be chastised for voicing those feelings here.

Something New

I have added new Google sheets.  In addition to the organization’s rosters at the bottom of the Transactions section, you will find the organization’s injury list and the organization’s Rule 5 eligibility list.  ALL are current as of today, August 6, 2017.

Key dates remaining:

  • August 31st, 11:59 PM EST – Waiver Trade Deadline
  • December 10-14th – Winter Meetings in Orlando
  • December 14th – Rule 5 Draft


  • 8/5 – Phillies recalled Cameron Perkins from Lehigh Valley
  • 8/5 – Phillies placed RF Aaron Altherr on the 10-day DL. Right hamstring strain
  • 8/5 – RHP Franklyn Kilome assigned to Reading from Clearwater
  • 8/5 – RHP Sixto Sanchez assigned to Clearwater from Lakewood
  • 8/5 – LHP Jonathan Hennigan assigned to Lakewood from Williamsport
  • 8/4 – Phillies optioned Jake Thompson to Lehigh Valley IronPigs
  • 8/4 – Phillies optioned Ty Kelly to Lehigh Valley IronPigs
  • 8/4 – Phillies recalled Jorge Alfaro from Lehigh Valley IronPigs
  • 8/4 – Phillies recalled Ricardo Pinto from Lehigh Valley IronPigs
  • 8/4 – Lehigh Valley placed SS Hector Gomez on the 7-day DL retroactive to 8/2/17. Left hip flexor strain
  • 8/4 – Lehigh Valley IronPigs activated RHP Tom Eshelman from the 7-Day disabled list
  • 8/4 – C Nick Rickles assigned to Lehigh Valley IronPigs from Reading Fightin Phils
  • 8/4 – C Austin Bossart assigned to Reading Fightin Phils from Clearwater Threshers
  • 8/4 – Clearwater sent SS Jose Gomez on a rehab assignment to GCL Phillies
  • 8/4 – CF Carlos Duran assigned to Clearwater Threshers from Lakewood BlueClaws
  • 8/4 – Mauricio Llovera assigned to Williamsport from Lakewood
  • 8/4 – Jonathan Hennigan assigned to Williamsport from Lakewood
  • 8/4 – Bailey Falter assigned to Lakewood from Williamsport
  • 8/3 – Clearwater Threshers activated CF Mark Laird from the 7-Day DL
  • 8/3 – CF Carlos Duran assigned to Lakewood BlueClaws from Clearwater
  • 8/2 – Phillies activated LF Daniel Nava from the 10-day disabled list
  • 8/2 – Phillies optioned RHP Drew Anderson to Reading Fightin Phils
  • 8/2 – Phillies optioned CF Cameron Perkins to Lehigh Valley IronPigs
  • 8/2 – Phillies recalled RHP Edubray Ramos from Lehigh Valley IronPigs
  • 8/2 – LHP McKenzie Mills assigned to Clearwater Threshers
  • 8/2 – Rafael Carvajal assigned to GCL Phillies from Clearwater Threshers
  • 8/1 – Phillies recalled RHP Drew Anderson from Reading Fightin Phils
  • 8/1 – Lehigh Valley IronPigs activated RHP Edubray Ramos from the 7-day DL
  • 8/1 – RHP Jose Taveras assigned to Lehigh Valley IronPigs from Reading
  • 8/1 – Harold Martinez assigned to Reading Fightin Phils from Lehigh Valley
  • 8/1 – Reading Fightin Phils released SS Jorge Flores
  • 8/1 – RHP Seth McGarry assigned to Clearwater Threshers
  • 8/1 – Lakewood BlueClaws placed C Henri Lartigue on the 7-day disabled list
  • 8/1 – Colby Fitch assigned to Lakewood BlueClaws from Williamsport
  • 7/31 – Phillies traded RHP Joaquin Benoit to Pittsburgh Pirates for RHP Seth McGarry
  • 7/31 – RHP Jacob Waguespack assigned to Reading from Clearwater Threshers
  • 7/31 – RHP Rafael Carvajal assigned to Clearwater Threshers from GCL Phillies
  • 7/31 – RF Juan Luis assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters from Lakewood BlueClaws
  • 7/31 – LHP Casey Brown assigned to Lakewood from Williamsport Crosscutters
  • 7/31 – OF Austin Listi assigned to Lakewood from Williamsport Crosscutters
  • 7/31 – LHP Bailey Falter assigned to Williamsport from Lakewood BlueClaws
  • 7/31 – Reading sent LHP Elniery Garcia on a rehab assignment to GCL Phillies
  • The organization’s rosters are up to date.
  • The organization’s injury list is as up to date as I can make it.
  • The organization’s Rule 5 eligibility list is as accurate as I can make it based on the

Here’s the open discussion thread for Phillies’ talk and other topics.


280 thoughts on “Open Discussion: Week of August 6th

  1. Rest In Peace, Darren Daulton. He was my favorite Phillies in the 90’s.

    I will be wearing his jersey on Wednesday. I will be at Sun Trust Park on VIP passes (on field batting practice, primo seats behind Phillies dugout, etc). Maybe it will help people remember what a solid leader he was for that ’93 team.

    I always wondered if he would have made a good manager…

  2. Dutch will be dearly missed . . such a good guy and a Philly guy as well, from how he played the game to how he interacted with fans, wish we had more guys like him now. A true leader and fighter, if you didn’t see that in his career, you def saw it in the 4 years he battled with such a horrible disease. At least he’s pain free and in peace now. He’ll truly be missed.

    1. Odd isn’t it, Vuke, Tug and Dutch all dying of the same type of cancer. Too young to go that is for sure. Thanks for the memories Dutch.

    1. Tim….tell the whole story….he also has an OBP of.425 over the last ten games and .382 over the last month..
      What does that tell you?
      He is being pitched around since the players behind him are easier to pitch to right now,

      1. So when he comes up too the Phillies he’s coverage is who in the line up. Cozens has been enough coverage for almost 2 yrs . Maybe that’s Too problem no coverage behind him. Hoskins was hitting .330 to start the season that’s a 50 pt drop.

        1. Tough to hit pitches off the plate outside the zone.
          However with the Phillies hopefully some one like Franco or Altherr/Rupp behind him next season will be able to up their game to make it easier for him to see quality in the zone pitches.
          I do not see Cozens in Philly until after June next season if that early.
          Hoskins is the least of my worries when it comes to hitting.

          1. Rupp might not be there Altherr a 3 hole hitter . Franco mte be in front at 4 hole put Hoskins at 5 or 6 because he’s a rookie. I don’t think mlb pitchers are going to Pitching around Hoskins low and outside maybe .

            1. If Mack is back…Franco will not be in the 4-hole to start the season in 2018…i think he has made up his mind, unless Franco does a 180 in his hit approach by next May.

        2. 1. For the millionth time, batting average in a small sample size is meaningless.
          2. Rhys has 30 ABs in the last 10 games. One hit would move his batting average 33 basis points. It is RIDICULOUS to draw a conclusion based on batting average over a 30 AB sample size.
          3. Cozens does not provide protection for Rhys. Rhys has played most of his games this year batting 5th. Cozens (with his .220 batting average and .305 OB%) has batted 4th all year. Rhys provides protection for Cozens and that hasn’t worked well for Dylan at all.

        3. Well then Tojo should also be taking a ton of walks because no one is pitching to him… Is that happening?

          No one expected Hoskins to be a .330 hitter so the drop in average was expected. He is, however, a better hitter than Joseph both for average and OBP…

      2. Another thing is LV playoff run might go into the second weak of Sept. The Phillies playoff run is over.

  3. I’ll always remember that one day (early 90’s) I took my dog to a vet in Delco for a regular check-up. Was sitting in the waiting room when who walks in (with his wife or girlfriend at the time along with 2 dogs of his own was Dutch. Laid back but friendly. The kicker was when I was heading to my car, who’s hanging by their car on his cellphone intently was the Dude. He nodded. I didn’t want to interrupt his conversation. I believe that wasn’t long before their car accident. Memories! Right on, Dutch!

    1. I used to Be a manager at Wendy’s on front street in philly. Everyday at about 2.30 Dutch would come thru drive thru. The girls would be on break so I was at the window. He was unreal. the Beautiful girls with him. He would order a Chicken club he would get the same thing every time. we would talk sometimes about lots of things. nice guy. I would have to ask him for his autograph for the girls. he was great about it. one day he was alone. I had to ask him, dutch don’t you ever date the same girl. he just would laugh. Him, Kruk. lenny were wild guys who had fun playing the game. Rest in peace.

  4. I realize those final two paragraphs were directed toward me. As I wrote yesterday, I understand that this is a “phutures site”, but there also is an “open discussion” thread which was where I directed my opinion about my desire that the team win. In any event, I concede.

    1. No need too as soon as the Phillies tie or pass CWS it’s no more revised #.the other teams are the Mets 2 and 8 in there last 10 , Tex, Phillies,NYY, Mia, ArI,Wsh, that’s there month schedule. 10 more games with the Phillies . The Braves are 6 and 14
      In there last 20.Cincy only 5 up in wins.of course SF plays Cubs, Wash ,mia then the 4 game set with the Phillies. SD is a bad team that wins so .

  5. The White Sox seem determined to secure the 1:1 pick in the 2018 draft. They will be difficult to fend off. I feel like Oakland and San Diego could go south (and hard) at any time, but the Phillies have a bit of a cushion on those two teams. I like the Phillies’ chances to finish with no worse (better?) than the 1:3 draft pick.

    1. The White Sox are really bad. Saw them play against the Blue Jays on tv, they make our lineup look good.

    2. At this point, I would agree the CWS look like an overwhelming favorite to land the 1-1 pick. The only positive spin to landing the 1-2 or 1-3 pick instead of the top pick is it realistically opens the possibility of drafting one of the two top HS pitchers available in 2018. RHP’s Ethan Hankins and Kumar Rocker have the stuff to justify being the top overall selection, but (of course) no HS RHP has been taken at 1-1 in the history of the MLB draft.
      BTW … Hankins put on show at East Coast Pro last week.

  6. Cesar was on base three times yesterday. That makes 9 consecutive games he’s been on base at least twice! In the 19 games since he’s been back from DL he’s been on base in 18 games (15 games twice or more), with 15 runs, 12/12 bb/k, and 6 for 6 in SB. He seems to be taking yet another step forward.

    1. John……it willl be a great competition next season between Kingery and Cesar.
      I wonder how Matt Klentak will handle that.

        1. Yep…..Cesar is and has become a fan favorite, so it will be a tough one. As long is he avoids getting picked-off first base, he will be right up there as one of the pluses on this team.

          1. I would almost expect a trade during offseason of Cesar unless they want him at 3rd. Now his value is climbing much higher so the team could get a good return. If that occurs Kingery would have to be very good to do better than Cesar has.

            1. I think my head will explode, Cesar is the best player on this team. And everyone wants to traded him for kingery. amazing. If kingery doesn’t make it then what. I just don’t understand how you take a young improving player and throw him under the bus. for a unproven kid in the minors. it amazes me. Just amaze at lack of respect for this kid.

            2. No lack of respect for Hernandez, I just know that if he was traded he would bring back at least 1 very good player at a different place of need or a couple of very good prospects.

            3. roccm, you already know where i stand in the Cesar debate.

              It’s foresight and not lack of respect. I value every Phillies (MLB and minors) right now based on what they will be 2-3 from now and not what they did 2-3 years ago.

            4. Rocc- I’m with you man, if I’m the Phillies I just checked off 2B as being set for the future. They Have a top 5-7 2B in baseball currently on the team right now. Trade him and Kingery doesn’t work out . . . Look out.

            5. I want Kingery at 2b next season and to trade Cesar in the offseason. I don’t believe Cesar is a winning, do whatever it takes to win, kind of player. He makes errors at bad times, is afraid to try to steal a base when its most needed, and just doesn’t have the instincts you want. Kingery has all of the above and looks ready. Easy decision I think.

            6. Teams will only about the outcome of a decision if they don’t have a reasonable fall back option in case of failure.

              In this case trading Cesar, the Phils still have good options if things did not go in their favor:

              1) Depth at 2B/SS – Sal A. is having a solid track record of finding middle infielders with solid baseball instincts and abilities. Brito and Jose Gomez have a look of a good 2-way 2B, Valentin is solid and there’s a glut of 2B/SS that the Phils can develop – Gamboa, Guzman, Gonzalez, Rivas, Guthrie, Holmes, etc.

              2) Free Agency – 2Bs don’t command a lot of money. The Phils can sign any 2B available if they need it.

              3) Trade – 2Bs don’t command a lot of value in most trades especially if the Phils can absorb contract.

              Cesar developed into a solid baseball player but his skill set(s) are replaceable making him expandable.

    2. It has been years since the Phillies had a viable cleanup hitter. While Cehe doesn’t have the pop that Kingery has, his fielding is stellar and his OBP is better. Nice to have competition at one position for a change.

    3. I have to admit, Cesar has turned himself into a far better player than I ever thought he could be. He will probably end up a 4 WAR player this year despite the one month he missed due to injury. He’s done the Phillies a huge favor by putting together his second outstanding season in a row. Kingery is the future. This winter, Klentak should be able to deal Hernandez for a MLB LH starting pitcher. After quickly scanning rosters of teams who could (or may end up) use(ing) Cesar, I believe Tyler Scaggs (Angels) and Daniel Norris (Tigers) could be Phillies targets. Both have strong pedigrees. Skaggs was a first round pick. Norris was a second rounder. Both are still young (Skaggs 26, Norris 24). The Phillies would be buying low on either of the two. Skaggs is a TJ survivor (2014), and made his first start since April this weekend after recovering from an oblique injury. Klentak should be plenty familiar with Skaggs after his time in LA. Norris (maybe best known for once living in a van) entered MLB a couple of years ago with one of the nastiest breaking balls you’ll see. However, his stuff (IMO) seems to have taken a step backward after a trade and a back injury. Neither of these guys are Chris Sale or Clayton Kershaw, but they are still young with plenty of upside, and are probably the kind of LHP’s Cesar might realistically bring back. I’d prefer Skaggs, but I’d be fine with Norris if the Tigers don’t bring back Ian Kinsler.

      1. Hinkie – we’re back in the same boat again. I agree that:

        a) Kingery appears to be the future;
        b) The trade return can also be cost controlled player (and not just prospects)

        I don’t think the rest of the league value Cesar the same way that most of us value him – so I don’t really expect a haul that most are saying to be a condition to be traded.

        We are pretty much looking at the same target (LAA, DET). Norris is a good target and with risk written all over him, Klentak might be able to snatch him although a Cesar for Burrows or Funkhouser + another lesser prospect is another alternative.

        1. Hinkie/KuKo…….I hope you are correct.
          Normally second basemen do not bring back a lot of value, and pitchers, in this case as you want, that are considered top of the rotation. The Phillies already have plenty of 4s and 5s. May have to be a prospect like a Burrows. I just do not see a MLB pitcher of significance coming back in any value return.

          1. the Phils has a lot of cost controlled players that can include in the Cesar trade. that’s another option that Klentak has in his disposal.

            We’ve seen Chase-Rollins combo and where it leads the team (winning). We’ve seen Cesar-Galvis combo for quite some time now and I can already see where it heading (average). it’s time to turn the page a start the Kingery-JPC combo.

          2. Romus … as I mentioned above, the Phillies would be buying low on either Skaggs or Norris. Not sure either guy is considered TOR pitcher at this point. Skaggs has started just 34 games over the last four sesons because of arm injuries. Norris’ numbers have been down since suffering a back injury. His WHIP is nearly 1.7 this season. The thing is … I would still deal Cesar for either of them and bet on them to rebound into some semblance of the prospects they once were.
            Not sure what this means, but … last season, the Dodgers traded one of their top prospects, Jose DeLeon for two seasons of Logan Forsythe. Forsythe’s numbers are pretty similar to Cesar’s. DeLeon was a top 25 prospect at the time of that trade. IMO, four years of Cesar should be worth Skaggs or Norris (at this point of their careers). Also, if it takes expanding the trade to include Phillies higher level (AA or AAA) prospects in exchange for Angels lower level (short season A ball) prospects, I would do something like Cesar and Tom Eshelman for Skaggs and Cole Duensing.

      2. Man, I would be ecstatic with a Skaggs/Norris straight up trade for Cesar.

        We need a LHP starting arm badly; both of those guys would be great to grow our rotation with.

        1. Think then again Norris numbers are brutal . 5.29 era 85 ings pitched 103 hits 39 walks.thats a 142 base runners in 85 ings. Plus he’s hurt again re injures his groin.maybe offer Nava and Luis Garcia.

      3. 4 WAR player? He’s at 1.9 WAR with 53 games to go. He’ll be lucky to hit 3 WAR. I’m still projecting him to be at 2.5 WAR for the year, possibly 2.7 best case.

        1. Guru … you are correct. He’s at 1.9 having played 77 games. I should have said a 4 WAR player projected over a full season.

  7. On Nola He’s a # 2 his Curve and 2 seamer are elite . I seen him throw 3 CB for swinging k’s . Darvish would look good in front of Nola.

    1. Nola will be the best #3 behind Otani and Darvish. Eickhoff and Nick can hold the 2 other slots while waiting for Kilome and Sixto to come up in the next 2 years.

      I’ve always been high on Nola even during his bad days. Other than his stuff (movement of CB and 2S in particular), I always like Nola’s composure and demeanor on the mound while pitching.

  8. #RIP Dutch. I had the chance to talk to Dutch (pre-cancer) discussing the old core during his show in 97.5ThePhanatic. Really nice guy and he appeared to turned his life around. I was not in the country during the 93 Phils run but I still remembered them well.

  9. pre-season, i have Elniery Garcia as the top LHP prospect in the farm and I expect him to remain the top LHP prospect even after the suspension. JoJo and Ranger are making a serious claim on the top LHP and if it is true (since I haven’t seen him pitch in person) that Ranger has the best CU in the farm, Ranger might be able to surpass Elniery given his control looks stellar (0.94 WHIP, 1.8 BB/9) while showing a decent ability to miss bats (8.1 KK/9). Ranger was exposed to Rule V last year and will be at risk to be claimed this year if not protected.

    Tromp is having a very good year and I don’t see him being protected by the Phils. Tromp will be a good candidate as a possible Rule V casualty and he will be a FA if not claimed.

    Tocci appears to be like a lock while Pullin appears not.

    1. Why do we do this every year?

      I will bet my life that Jiandido Tromp is not selected in the Rule 5 draft

        1. no he wouldnt.

          again we do this every year.

          everyone gets worried that every 2nd rate phillies prospect left unprotected will be drafted in the rule 5

          there is no perspective around here on where guys like Jiandido Tromp fit in league-wide

  10. this might be worthless but for my own sake i was trying to break down the 40 man between the obvious retainage, possible removal, obvious adds after season and other rule 5 elgible possible ads, though i could be wrong with my thinking between the 2 groupings:

    INF joseph, hernandez, galvis, franco, valentin,
    rupp, knapp, alfaro (8)
    OF williams, herrera, altherr, quinn, cozens (5)
    SP nola, eickhoff, pivetta, velasquez, eflin,
    lively, anderson, elniery garcia(8)
    RP neris, ramos, garcia, pinto, therien (5)
    on for now blanco, kelly, kim, nava, morgan, milner
    leiter, thompson, beato, tirado, stassi, perkins
    appel (13) (bucholz/fien 60 day dl-assumed gone)
    must add Crawford, Hoskins, Tocci, Dominquez, Kilome
    Arano, Taveras (7)
    could add Pullin, Rios, Liebrandt, A. Davis, Canelo, Grullon (6)
    free agent/rule 5 signings
    others not on 40:Kingery, Eshelman, Florimon, Walding

  11. Tocci has had a terrific year, and has hit quite a few doubles. I am not writing him off as the CF of the future as his D has always been elite. This was a real eye opening season and a guy like Tocci is not helped by the park in Reading. He is a definite for Rule V protection.

  12. Valentin, Grullon and Canelo are under .250 hitters. Slim chance they are taken, so no to the 40 for them. I’d trade all three of them. One of Rupp or Alfaro will be gone in a trade. Quinn is a half-year player. Trade him while he still has value. One of the MLB/AAA SPs not named Nola will be traded. Neris and Garcia are possible trade pieces also. Blanco, Kelly, Kim and Nava will be FA’s and not re-signed. Stassi and Perkins will be DFA’d. Tocci is an outfielder with no pop. With Herrera holding down CF for now and Haseley and Moniak coming behind him, he can go unprotected. A pitcher taken in Rule 5 can ride the bullpen bench for a season, so I expect a lot of the Phillies minor league pitchers to be added to the 40. I can see Florimon taking the place of Blanco on the MLB roster and if he gets off the DL and proves he can close like he did in AAA, Beato has a chance also. However, they may also not be re-signed to open more slots on the 40.

    1. Valentin is already in the 40-man, he will be claimed in the waivers if any team is interested for him but I don’t see the Phils DFAing him since he will take Blanco’s spot as the UTIL INF.

      I’m not sure what’s the upside of putting Beato and Florimon in the 40-man when space is tight. If this is the beginning of the season, probably make sense, but not towards the end of the season. The Phils will rather give the opportunities to young guys and start to get some MLB experience.

      The Phils might skip the Rule V drafting again this season unless there’s an obvious gem left unprotected that the Phils can draft but the probability is close to remote. If the Phils will get a bullpen, it might be a proven veteran from FA as the 40-man will be stacked with young prospects.

      Trades of younger prospect looks like inevitable this coming offseason.

      1. As for Rule V draft the Phils are nearly locked for a top 4 pick (as well as Rule IV draft). The bullpen needs help and I could foresee a selection for there – otherwise I agree that chances are they will skip again this year. Too much a roster crunch. Trades are the wildcard to free up spots

        1. Bob D – pen needs a reliable arm. Rule V is more of a crap shoot than Rule IV so FA is the better way. Also with too many SPs, some will be converted to RPs (Appel, Thompson) and some might might start gaining their MLB experience from the pen (Anderson).

          If the Phils are looking for young arms (which is what you will get from Rule V), they just need to start adding prospects (Rios, Davis, Arano, Rivero, deNato) to the 40-man and see what they have from those prospects.

          Tying up a 25-man roster spot for a Rule V may limit the ability of the Phils to rotate young players in the 40-man.

          1. Rule 5 is a crap shoot and the better play is to find players who won’t get protected on other teams’ rosters and trade younger prospects (exempt from the ’17 Rule 5) for them.

            A better prospect than Valentin, Florimon or Canel is Thairo Estrada who is a borderline protect for the Yankees this year. Acquire Estrada and end the debate about which borderline prospects with injury histories or other warts are worth protecting goes away..

            Acquire a left handed power hitting corner outfielder like Billy McKinney or Jake Cave and they jump Cozens and Pullin on the Phils’ protect list. Yankees probably wouldn’t keep both McKinney and Cave so offer something in trade for one.

            The Yankees will probably expose both a young power arms like Domingo Acevedo, Giovanny Gallegos and Luis Cessa. The Yanks are merely the most obvious example of a team with more talent than it can protect. These are guys who bump Anderson, Appel, Thompson and El. Garcia.

            In relative terms, the Phils are thin and I think this will be attested to in the dialogue that has already begun regarding the fringe prospects arguably worth protecting this off-season. The Phils have only a very small pool of players at serious risk of being selected and retained for a full season by another team.

            If the Phils trade and add to the 40-man, they have the flexibility of handling players one never gets from a Rule 5 draftee who needs to be stashed on the MLB roster.

            1. McKinney would be a good get.
              And a better prospect over Pullin and Cozens.
              Cave, a Rule 5 retread(Reds), and age25 season in 2018 I would have doubts with. He may be suitable as a a 4th OFer.

        2. BobD….Rule 5 means 39 protection……every slot this year is like gold. You may need all 40 with all the MLB ready prospects.
          So that is the trade off.

    1. Would have been a proactive move to make in the fall not now.

      It is a typical response to try to get everyone playing & avoid making the hard decisions. This is potentially a short term solution with Altherr on the DL.

  13. 2018 opening day lineup (barring injury) – book it:

    Scott Kingery 2b
    JP Crawford ss
    Aaron Altherr cf
    Nick Williams rf
    Rhys Hoskins 1b
    Mike Moustakas 3b
    Jorge Alfaro c
    Dylan Cozens lf
    Aaron Nola p

    1. 8mark……I assume you are taking the typical bet … will run down Broad Street naked, mind-you with rocco, if that is not the lineup.

      1. Well, we have a little time to get the camera crews in place before this grandeur spectacle. Sincerely hope no one stumbles and falls and hurts themselves during this “promenade”!

      1. Perhaps, Kuko…but Rhys, JPC, and Jetp…oops, I mean Kingery will give them some OBP. “Moose” doesn’t walk much but he and AA will give them good ABs. The rest of the lineup? We might have to chalk up to growing pains.

      1. We trade Cesar, Doobie, Franco, Freddy, Rupp, Vinnie Velo, and ToJo for a TOR starting pitcher or 2, and restock the system with bats.

        1. System has he bats future line revised . Jp, Mickey Mo, Kingery, Ortiz, Haseley,Franco, D Hall, Grullion .

          1. Tim, I like many of our position player prospects but is a
            ANYONE in the organization crushing the ball? I’m talking .330+ BA. Out of five farm teams. You’d think the percentages would be that one bat should be in a run for league batting title.

            1. Ortiz is 3rd in ops in his league 2nd in HR ,3rd in RBIs , the players ahead of him 3 and 4 yrs older . Tocci 2nd in his league in hitting. Funny Kingery had the same of HR and Double’s as Devers _ 9 at Bats in AA.

        2. I’d go for Verlander if he will waive his no-trade. Two years of Verlander, pitching as he is now, helps the Phils in various ways. I don’t expect a lot of TOR starters to be on the market and I think trade talks end when Altherr and Williams enter the conversation. Verlander with his full contract might be had for a non-critical roster player and a non-top-100 prospect.

          1. If he had his choice between Houston or Philly for the foreseeable future, my hunch is I think i know where he would like to pitch to waive his no-trade clause..

            1. Verlander is an East Coast guy (Va.) and if he’s too pricey for Houston, Phils are a fall-back.

    2. I’ll bet you 1000 Abraham Nunez coins that Quinn (barring health) would start over Cozens in the OF. Quinn is a better player than Cozens. Quinn is going to make a lot of users here eat their words once these fluke injuries stop happening.

      1. Eat their words? Because Quinn is always getting injured? And the Phillies can depend on him to stay healthy? This is exactly the same situation the Blue Jays have with Devon Travis. He’s good when healthy, but he’s hurt all the time. And then the Blue Jays have to depend on their backups: Darwin Barney and Ryan Goins. And those guys are brutal with a capital B.

    3. Take out Nick Williams he will be expose by then. Moustakas is a pipe dream. Alfaro isn’t ready. Dylan Cozens will still be at lhv. Crawford wont beat out freddy. And kingery wont be the starter over cesar. other than that good lineup.

    4. Soooo

      Cozens isn’t ready for the majors and won’t be by opening day 2018.

      Alfaro might be on the team, but only by necessity, and I doubt he’s the starter (unless he goes nuts in ST – which is possible, but not likely).

      Kingery and Crawford won’t be starting because the team will want their arb. clocks to run longer so they will both be in AAA – but I think both will be on the team and starting by mid-May, but it might not be at second.

      Third base is anyone’s guess, it could be Moustakas, or Franco and it might even be Kingery if he can field the position competently.

  14. What happened to roccom? Anyway, I don’t see JP starting the year in the Majors, and they have no need to move up Kingery next year. I see Cesar moving, if at all, at next season’s trade deadline. Cozens will be in LHV as roccm said. I like Nick Williams and he starts with Altherr and Doobie. I still see Klentak moving in a slow and deliberate way, and not doing much until mid-season. I go after Darvish if it was me, and they probably give Franco another year. So, 8mark, I am with you on 4 of your 9 starters for opening day. Sorry!

  15. Hey v1, check out this guy:

    I haven’t been paying too much attention to him, but I noticed he has a 5.1% K rate in the GCL this year — that is really good — and the article says he runs a 6.5 60-yard-dash, which would be 70-grade speed. Alas, no power yet . . .

    Let’s see, a Venzuelan centerfielder with an Italian last name who has a good hit tool, but no power. Reminds me of someone . . .

  16. Matt Winks has a good article on Hoskins LF idea . Doesn’t like it it’s bad for the young pitchers , Hoskins slower then Ruff .

    1. Tim…not like Hoskins is a novice in LF…played almost 80 games out in the OF between Sac St and Falmouth in the Cape league.
      Sheeesh…..Ruf was never out there unless he shagged balls in batting practice

        1. Tim don’t worry as much about speed. as the jump he gets. its very important to get a good jump on the ball. makes up for lack of speed in some cases

          1. You can make up ground With speed and agility. Darrin Ruff was bad out there I mean it’s Hoskins Bat I get it Move Herrera and Williams to the left .

        1. I do not see this as a hot topic…..Hoskins is a temp worker in LF for maybe 6/7 weeks. Can not imagine he is the future LFer in the Phillies plan.
          Now you will mention the Tommy Joseph effect in 2018……I think most would agree, Tommy, and the Mrs/Capt. Joseph, may be booking Atlas Van Lines this winter.

          1. Tojo will be in the ml next yr let,s not forget he lose a lot of learning form injuries. I don’t hes had this many at bats . Lucky Altherr went down with an injury I don’t think would have happened.

  17. 2018 OD:
    1 Quinn CF
    2 Hernandez 2B
    3 Altherr RF
    4 Hoskins 1B
    5 Herrera LF
    6 Franco 3B
    7 Knapp C
    8 Crawford SS
    9 Nola P

    2019 OD:
    1 Kingery 2B
    2 Crawford SS
    3 Blackmon CF
    4 Machado 3B
    5 Altherr RF
    6 Herrera LF
    7 Hoskins 1B
    8 Alfaro C
    9 TOR

    1. I always find these future projected lineups absurd but one that jumps out at me most here. You are taking a Gold Glove caliber player out of Centerfield and putting in a high cost free agent who will be entering his declining years who is a net negative in the field. I’ll pass on Blackmon, thank you.

  18. To Romus, Catch and Guru,

    I think we will always agree to disagree when it comes to using WAR to support our arguments. I will try to refrain from engaging in such a never ending discussion again but i want you all to understand where i’m coming from. please read this article and note of the following:

    a) The consensus seems to be that WAR is how much value (WINS!!) a player contributes to his team over the baseline of a player who could replace him. WAR DOES NOT REFLECT THE TRUE TALENT LEVEL OF A PLAYER, but instead it describes how many wins an individual player contributes on the actual field, and in that aspect it works spectacularly well.

    b) WAR has been gaining acceptance, but some of the internet’s best sabermetric minds are distancing themselves from the statistic more than ever, especially as a single-season metric === this is what i’m saying as using WAS in isolation.

    c) The main reason sabermetricians have been distancing themselves from the importance of single-season WAR values is that single-season defensive metrics have a crazy amount of variability, so many people don’t trust them. === being a finance guy, I fully understand this that’s why it’s not an end all be all to me.

    1. additional notes about WAR…

      d) Single-season WAR does a phenomenal job at doing what it says it does. Single-season WAR should not be used to predict win totals or even WAR in a subsequent season. Single-season WAR also is not supposed to reflect the true talent level of a player, which I think is far and away the largest flaw in the way people interpret the statistic. If WAR did reflect true talent, every player would have the same WAR that perfectly encompassed how much value his talent should bring to his team every single year.

      e) Even in the various definitions of WAR, the words “true talent level” never pop up

      f) Some sabermetricians have begun to put very little weight or trust into single-season WAR results, but at the same time there are many sabermetricians who may overuse or overvalue the statistic. I’ve read time and time again in either trade or contract analyses that a certain player is going to provide a 3.0-5.0 win improvement for his new team based on his WAR from the year before. That conclusion is most likely incorrect.

    2. KuKo:
      Not sure I see the distancing occurring as you have been seeing on the usage and validity of WAR….especially when I listen to Brian Kenney and the crew talk it practically every day on the MLB.Network.
      But… are the top 15 active highest WAR players with years and age… they give WAR validity or is it the other way around?
      1. Albert Pujols (17, 37) 99.6 R
      2. Adrian Beltre (20, 38) 92.1 R
      3. Carlos Beltran (20, 40) 70.7 B
      4. Miguel Cabrera (15, 34) 69.6 R
      5. Chase Utley (15, 38) 65.1 L
      6. Robinson Cano (13, 34) 64.6 L
      7. CC Sabathia (17, 36) 60.7 L
      8. Ichiro Suzuki (17, 43) 59.5 L
      9. Clayton Kershaw (10, 29) 59.0 L
      10. Zack Greinke (14, 33) 58.6 R
      11. Ian Kinsler (12, 35) 55.0 R
      12. Mike Trout (7, 25) 53.3 R
      13. Cole Hamels (12, 33) 52.9 L
      14. Dustin Pedroia (12, 33) 52.5 R
      15. Justin Verlander (13, 34) 52.4 R

      1. @romus – the sabermetricians are the ones distancing. it’s ironic that sabermetricians created the WAR but they are distancing from it.

        Brian Kenny and Jayson Stark are journalists. they talk anything about baseball because they are paid to do it. I’m sure that both Brian Kenny and Jayson Stark literally memorize the Elias database but no sane owner will hire them as GMs.

        WAR has been around for almost a decade now, and there must be a reason why WAR is not yet recognized as an official stat by MLB (the governing body) and Elias (the provider of historical and statistical information for major pro sports).

      2. regarding the list you provided, not really sure what relevance that you can derive from it.

        take Pujols for example. He accumalated 99.6 WAR and so what? Nobody wants Pujols in their team anymore but I already know that Pujols is a sure HOF and the best hitter (based on track record) that’s currently playing and I don’t need to see his WAR to figure that out.

      3. and to go back to Brian Kenny and other journalists, their main job is to gather news items and topics to discuss. i don’t think these journalists spent majority of their time watching games, looking at the work outs like scouts do.

        i’m actually not surprised if the media/journalist embrace sabermetrics better than the sabermetricians because it will make them look “smart and knowledgeable” about baseball even though they are not doing the actual leg work in following the games and the players. these media folks will just talk to scouts and run Elias database and pick up stats that supports whatever news or discussions they intend to report.

        1. KuKo….so what measuring tool do you use to see the worth or productive influence of a player?

          1. Baseball is still one of the most subjective sports given that not all at bats/pitches are the same so there are too many moving parts. But that’s the appeal about baseball (as boring at it is) – beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

            WAR in an attempt to come up with a solution to your answer but after almost a decade, the results are still inconclusive. So deciding who’s the HOF, MVP, what $$ to pay a specific player are still purely subjective.

            Some might say that sabermetrics are the new age of baseball, yeah sure. But old school baseball approach are still here to stay. Coaches will still employ the old school ways of playing baseball as fundamentals to be a major league caliber type of player. Sabermetrics are just for the FO to use to support the eye test.

            1. Ok…I guess we will agree to disagree.
              My choice of preference in determining the value of player is WAR.
              For me….It allows me to compare any player to any other player … across positions, across era, across leagues.
              Bear in mind, each of the WAR values are, in essence, counting stats. That is to say that a player with more innings pitched or more plate appearances / games played will have more chances to rack up a higher WAR value than a player with fewer.
              Also realize, WAR formulas and implementations will tend to shift over time…they come up with better or different formulae….especially on the defensive spectrum.
              So i cannot begrudge you on how you value players.

            2. @romus – WAR picks up it calculation from the baseline stats. Since baseline stats are universally accepted while WAR is still not, i will use on baseline stats in calculating measurables that I want to see. it is DMAR who created some pitching calculations?

              it is not that i don’t like WAR, I just considered its limitations when i use WAR. unlike you, i don’t use WAR as end all and be all. physical abilities and mental aptitude still matter and that will be forever true in the world of sports. And no mathematical equation can measure the athletes will to win and ability to respond to critical situations. as i posted in Box Score thread — there should always a strike of balance between quantitative vs qualitative to mitigate risks in decision making.

            3. @romus – you can use WAR to compare players across position and across any era, but remember, single-season WARis not supposed to reflect the true talent level of a player – and what the study said, using WAR to measure the true talent of a player is the largest flaw in the way people interpret the statistic.

              in any argument, i don’t normally argue with the conclusion but the mind set and reasoning behind it.

      4. Aw man Romus you didn’t just go Brian Kenney did you? That guy is well practiced in the art of trolling the baseball universe.

        I’m so over guys like Kenney trying to stir needless debate for the sake of creating ratings. Same goes for Russo. I want to listen to guys that played the game Pedro is phenomenal and guys like Dan Duquette who GM’d the game.

        John Hart was fantastic on that program. Flannery is pretty good as well.

        1. DMAR…..hah, though only mention Kenney because it is his show…..listen to all the rest you mentioned, with a more discernible interest.

            1. ROMUS War, huh, yeah
              What is it good for
              Absolutely nothing
              War, huh, yeah
              What is it good for
              Absolutely nothing
              Say it again, why’all

      5. What Kuko is saying is that single season WAR can have aberrations. You showed career WAR. Over a long enough timeline, WAR is going to become pretty accurate and normalized and is a very good indicator of value(At least in my opinion)

        1. basically use WAR with caution. i actually agree with the study that WAR (offensive and defensive) is not a true reflection of a player’s talent and even in the various (FG, BR, BR) definitions of WAR, the calculation was not meant to measure the players physical abilities.

  19. I’m interested in your thoughts though? I watch MLB network probably 350 days out of the year and his might be the one show I would do away with but they probably love it.

    I wish they would do more Mayo and Callis and rather than air rookie of the year for the zillionth time how about 10 MiLB game’s during the course of a season.

    I saw they had a perfect game contest on Sunday morning that was pretty cool. There is so much more they could do with their programming to entrench the baseball fan.

    1. I would like to see one segment devoted to minor leagues.
      But realize, other than the few hundred on this site….most of all baseball ‘geeks’ or fans I guess……care less about a prospect 3 years away.
      The majority of the audience are in to wins and losses right now in Philadelphia…and i suppose that is the way it is across the other 30 cities with MLB teams. I enjoy the maturation process of the prospects, though most fall a little short.

    2. i agree with both of your suggestions, but unfortunately, MLB network is all about ratings and prospects and minor leagues don’t appeal to mainstream baseball fans. i hope they put some classic MLB games and have weekly segments with MLB team spending time with each baseball teams and do walkthrough of their farm, facilities and infrastructure and some interviews with the key FO personnel.

      1. yes, how many times can people watch Rookie of the Year, Summer Catch, The Natural, The Babe, etc? what can the ratings really be? some classic games, an occasional minor league game would be good, and doesnt seem like shows you are talking about wouldnt have much production cost.

  20. Kurdt Kobeyn August 8, 2017 at 4:49 PM
    @catch – just to add, did you mentioned that “WAR is measure how many runs a player generates or saves to determine how many games the player added to the win column above a replacement player.” i don’t think you got the correct definition of WAR.

    ….KuKo… a general rule of thumb from what I have seen from SABR…..each WAR unit or ‘win’ could be equivalent to a player generating approx 9.3 runs. So a Mike Trout WAR10 equates to 93 runs.

    1. @romus – yeah, i encountered that bright line of 9-10 runs per WAR. Runs Above Replacement (RAR) and Runs per Win (RPW) is another effort by the SABR people to try to come up with something. Both RAR and RPW are more flawed than WAR itself that’s why you don’t see both SABR stats being discussed around.

      Wins and Losses are what matters in baseball. A 1-0 game is same as 20-0 or 30-2 game — all 3 games will give a team 1 win in the win column.

      So a GM 1 1-0, GM2 3-1 and GM 1-12 (2W-1L) will be interpreted differently in the RAR and RPW context.

      I will no longer want to start another SABR debate but I don’t buy the 9-10 general rule.

      1. These next 7 weeks should go a long way to tell whether Doobie is a building block going forward or a valuable trade chip this off season. I’ve been a detractor but if he can show that he’s maturing as a man and a ball player, now’s the time. Either way, it’s good that he’s lighting up the slash line.

        1. Yeah he’s a building block in that you trade him for the high end ace you are going to need to get this team back into the playoffs…

        2. Nah CF like Herrera grow on trees .you know the that are 25 yrs old play GG defense . Hit 20 homeruns,50’doubles 5 triples . there called building blocks, future mvp, maybe Hof .

    1. We have seen well pitched games occasionally from Pivetta, Eickoff, and now Eflin. We really need one of these guys to become a consistant legit #3 and #4. OUr minor leagues seem full of 4’s and 5’s with the potential of a few 3’s, but they must start to step up and claim that role. Are they all David Buchanons or is someone something more. Would be nice to find out in the next 6 weeks

    1. Who would be the prized prospect at #1 compared to 2 & 3?

      In basketball it was very clear that getting the #1 pick would give you a transcendent player compared to 2 & 3.

      In baseball, that is not always the case.

      For that reason, it is unnecessary to highlight the “reverse magic number” here.

      I wonder if a poll can be created asking the others on this board if they agree or disagree with the analysis of it.

      1. John H … There is no Bryce Harper in the 2018 draft. We may be a year too early for the “prized prospect” you speak of (Bobby Witt Jr in the 2019 draft). In most years, the award for the 1-1 pick is having the most pool money, which should translate to having the deepest draft. Think back to 2016. The Phillies saved 3 million dollars on Mickey Moniak and were then able to oversign their next four picks and still pocket enough more money to lure Josh Stephen and Kyle Young away from their college scholarships later in the draft. The new CBA has made it more difficult for teams at the top of draft to save money. This year, only one team drafting in the top eight saved money on their first round pick (five had to go over slot to sign their pick). Only the Twins (owners of the 1-1 pick) saved money. They signed Royce Lewis for a little more than a million dollars under slot. Saving that money at 1-1 allowed Minnesota to draft and sign Blayne Enlow (one of the top HS pitchers in the draft) in the third round for more than 1.2 million dollars over slot.

        There’s no question, the healthiest way to build a team is through the draft and J2 signings. This is why I’m constantly proposing trades to bring back competitive balance draft picks and extra J2 dollars.

        No need for a poll. My posting the Phillies reverse magic number is all in fun. It’s pretty obvious the White Sox are not going to be denied the 1-1 pick. There are a lot of threads on this site, and there are a lot of posts. Do I have an interest in every post on this site ? To be honest, I don’t. When I come across one of those posts, I just read past it. However, if reading past a reverse magic number post is too difficult for some, I’ll give you a break and stop posting it.

  21. 51 is still a big number on Aug 9, Hinkie. Let us know when it’s down to 10. In any case we’ll have a top 3 pick unless something remarkable happens.

  22. Analysis of the off-season free agents:

    I am not convinced it is wise to give long term deals to players coming out of career years, like Moustakas who has been solid but not elite player over his career. Though I like his make up in this town.

    I don’t see much difference between Hosmer & Hoskins averaging 19HR, 87 RBI, & 774 OPS over his career, no need there.

    Tanaka & Cueto have injury histories, no need there.

    Arrietta is on the decline, no need there.

    JD & Upton, we have enough depth to cover their production, let this team grow together. I like Altherr, Williams, Doobie, & Cozens.

    Relievers: No need to invest long term unless the team is ready to win over the next 2 years.

    1. What about Darvish then you have Darvish ,Nola, Eickhoff , maybe V,V , Pivetta , Elfin ,Elsemann , Liebrandt , Thompson. Therrin and Rios are free agents at the end of the season.the Phillies will at some point need a LH pitcher.

  23. Has anybody watched Matt Adams in LF in this short series? That is exactly what I don’t want to see from Rhys Hoskins if he’s in LF. I feel sorry for Adams, he’s been rough out there.

    1. I’ve watched. It’s pretty ugly. There’s something to be said for experimenting, but you don’t want to embarrass a guy by putting him at a position he’s physically not capable of playing.

      I’d rather Hoskins not have to deal with both a promotion and a new position. TJ is what he is, you’re unlikely to increase his trade value by giving him another 150 ABs. Just let Hoskins take over at 1B and be done with it.

  24. Cole Stobbe looks completely lost. I saw him hit a walkoff HR at Williamsport and thought that would change things but it hasn’t.

    Just watched him the last two games against Staten Island and he is lucky to tip the ball. Swinging at bad pitches and looking at good pitches. Has a 34% K rate and his swing and miss percentage must be horrendous.

    I am at a loss to figure it out. He played well in the GCL last year and won some type of minor league spring training award as the best position player. I figured he would be at Lakewood.

    I don’t know what to say other than i hope this is growing pains and he comes out of it. Right now two strikes in the count and it is an automatic K.

  25. Fangraphs had a good article today on Justin Verlander’s trade value. He’s under contract for 2 more years after this one at $52M total. Dave Cameron thought the Tigers would be willing to eat half his salary to pick up a decent prospect.

    The Phillies starting pitching situation is pretty bleak near-term. You have Nola and probably Eickhoff, then a bunch of question marks (mostly question marks in a bad way). It’s a shame because the lineup could be pretty good rather quickly.

    Question: Would you trade for Verlander if we took on his salary this year, paid him $16M next year and $10M in 2019? The package going back would be Alfaro, and something like Pivetta and Greg Pickett or Andrew Pullin and Kyle Young.

    1. I’ve beaten the drum here for kicking the tires on Verlander who is owed $ 56 M for the next 2 seasons.

      I think there are 2 distinct markets for Verlander and the return the Tigers can ask should be different in each. If the Phils are willing to take on his entire salary, I don’t see another team competing for his services. There is talk of the Astros taking him but their current top salary is $ 17 M and they have big pay raises in their near future. If the Cubs let both Lackey and Arrieta walk this off-season they might consider Verlander. That’s a long shot.

      But in the second market, where 50 % is picked up by the Tigers, then contending teams like the Astros, Cardinals, maybe the Rangers come into play and the bidding on a trade return goes up. The issue of where Verlander waives his no-trade in order to be moved comes into play and Philly starts looking like a long shot. And no, I don’t like the idea of losing both Alfaro and Pivetta. in the scenario proposed.

      So I’d spend the money for 2 years of Verlander. Having lost C Avila and OF Martinez, I’d offer Knapp and Cozens in my scenario,plus Pickett or Pullin if that closes the deal.

      1. Um wouldn’t Verlander have full no trade rights? And at this point in his career do think he’d only be willing to waive that to go to a team in contention?

        I wouldn’t mind having Verlander and I wouldn’t have an issue with taking on all that money but I don’t see the likelihood that he’d want to come here at this juncture of his career and the phillies in all out rebuild mode.

        1. Verlander does have no trade rights. I can imagine his preferring to go to a contender if that were an option. But Zach Greinke provides the example of a guy who left a contender for a non-contender (at the time) for other considerations. Verlander, of course, is not a free agent as Greinke was. If the Phils were willing to take on his entire contract, I think that sets them apart from the competition. Verlander could stay in Detroit but if they’re selling off parts, he’s looking at playing for a team starting a rebuild along the lines of what the Phils have already embarked on.

          1. The Greinke signing a the best possible $$ he get can set the ill-advised Shelby Miller trade. i think Greinke signed the with assurance with FO that they are planning to contend.

        2. I don’t think Kate Upton likes to be in Philly. Anyway, Verlander is an option but probably 3rd or 4th option. The Phils have a lot of payroll flexibility and will probably insist not to include top prospects but throw prospects that they don’t want or clogging the 40-man roster.

          DET likes to rebuild and will prefer good prospects so they will just turn around and look for a contender who will throw a Top 15 prospect.

          I rather sign Darvish and Lynn in the offseason (and of course Otani anytime anyday).

    1. Scott Kingery is an absolute wizard at second base. He made another play last week that was hard comprehend, somehow diving for a ball and, while extended, fielding it on a short hop – it’s the kind of thing you see once every couple of years, but he made it look routine. This guy is amazing and I can’t wait to see him play for the Phillies. Trust me when I tell you this – the moment he is promoted, the team will have a different feel, a surging feel, a winning feel. He is the real deal and, even if you think he’s not the best prospect, in the scheme of things, I believe he’s the most important prospect.

      1. you now talk highly of Kingery but you are also passionate about Cesar. I know that both can co-exist if Kingery moved to another position but do you realistically think that’s a possibility?

        contrary to what others might think, i don’t necessary hate Cesar. I just know he is not the future 2B of this team.

  26. Wathan was asked if Hoskins would be in LV tomorrow ” most likely ” the Manager said. I can guess why either the Phillies don’t want to start Hoskins against Degrom . They could bring him up after the west Coast trip there have a double header against Mia when they return. Hmm he from Cali maybe they bring him up before the SD , SF trip.

    1. joseph now 230 with a homer and 11 rbi’s in the last month; just let hoskins play first 4 or 5 days a week, and maybe hoskins 1 game a week in left against a lefty with joseph at first. just go nava/perkins in LF for now. let sanity prevail.

        1. Oh I would definitely rather have TJ vs DeGrom who I’m sure struggles vs hitters who are 1 for their last 25.

    2. Tim…it is important that his family are there for his MLB debut.
      Do not want to say mandate, but kind of a unwritten MLB protocol.
      Though for many of the young Latin players who make their debuts, that is not always possible.

  27. It is clearly overdue to have Hoskins called up. I know TJ is a good guy and has overcome concussions, and I root for everyone who plays for us, but he is not the long term answer. Hoskins may be, and deserves his shot. TJ’s value is such that it will not be hurt, nothing much is coming back for him anyway.

  28. I might be Cesar’s biggest fan. I was adamant against the suggestion we trade him last off season because we had Kingery. The events have of course changed and now there is no doubt that they have to get Scotty up to the big leagues.

    I think about how Mookie Betts was a 2B but they of course had Pedroia and therefore Betts went to center until Jackie Bradley proved he could play and ultimately pushed Betts to RF.

    Could you see a scenario where that happens here? I don’t or can’t see a scenario here Freddy and JP coexist. I’d like to see what the following might do Starting tomorrow

    A Catcher
    A Pitcher

    1. DMAR……..I agree I don’t see JP and Freddy coexisting either. I also don’t see Galvis as a super-sub and I don’t think he would embrace that role. He is an every day player.

      1. Yup they would or should do right by him and finding him a landing spot where he can be the starter….

    2. Next year will be Freddy’s last ARB year, looks like a trade is imminent and I think the Phils will just let him walk after next year.

      I don’t think Kingery is as versatile as Betts. CF is the next possible position but Doobie is there. Not sure if 3B is a possibility.

      That’s why I’m always in the position that the Phils should just need to make a decision (Kingery is my choice) and live with it. The Phils have $$ to acquire a FA in case that decision (keeping Kingery) did not pan out in their favor.

    3. IMO, Cesar and Galvis are not the type of players that will come back to haunt the Phils in the future if they decided to move on from both them. So salvage some value while they can.

  29. Congratulations to Maikel Franco. He’s made ESPN’s All Disappointment Team (written by Dave Schoenfield).

    Here’s the complete team:

    SP … Matt Harvey, Noah Syndergaard, Matt Moore, Johnny Cueto and Jeff Samardzija
    RP … Sam Dyson
    C … Jonathan Lucroy
    1B … Miguel Cabrera
    2B … Rougned Odor
    3B … Maikel Franco
    SS … Brandon Crawford (Dansby Swanson Honorable Mention)
    LF … Kyle Schwarber
    CF … Byron Buxton
    RF … Carlos Gonzalez
    DH … Mark Trumbo

    Here’s what he had to say about the Franco pick (he shoots a torpedo into the Phillies rebuild):

    “I considered Manny Machado, but he’s been heating up of late and still plays plus defense. Maybe Machado isn’t having an MVP-type season, but he’s still a top-10 third baseman. Franco, on the other hand, is hitting .229/.284/.405, and that poor OBP combined with below-average defense pegs his WAR at minus-0.5. Am I the only one who thinks the Phillies’ rebuilding isn’t going that well?

    After a strong debut in 2015, Franco looked like he’d be a key guy, but it’s becoming more likely that he’s not going to be part of the next winning Phillies team. Some of the pitchers have backed up, and some of the top guys at Triple-A like J.P. Crawford and Jorge Alfaro haven’t been good. There’s a new wave of prospects in the lower minors, but that means the timetable for contention is pushed back a few more years.”

      1. boooooo!!!…!

        is Dave Schoenfield the one who proposed a “realignment” of each MLB division? he sure does have a creative mind to create stories.

    1. I’m not saying I’m a genius but i always believe that the local outlets (or fans who closely followed the team) have better handle about a local team compared to the national outlets.

      majority probably already have a clue why the rebuild did not move as fast as we want;

      A) Middle of the order – Franco didn’t have a linear upward progression and has been erratic this year. ToJo steadied himself but he is still an unreliable bat so is Rupp. Doobie picked up lately but his bad start in the year contributed to the slow start.

      B) Arms – despite of the lack of a true TOR, this is supposed to be the strength. Jake is supposed to be like Eickhoff but looks more of a AAAA, long relief, VV is potential #2/#3 now appears to head to the pen, Appel another supposed to be power arm is down and out, Eflin is erratic. Lively shows his low ceiling as everybody expects. Even Eickhoff had a long bad stretch.

      C) Pen – both Neris and Ramos initially struggled. Some expect Arano to contribute after trade deadline but he got hurt and slow to regain his stuff. Joely imploded and if not for the uptick in velocity Morgan already joined him.

      The success of the rebuild mostly lies in the “young core”. As of now, the Phils don’t have a “young core” to build around and ride on.

  30. He does not acknowledge that JP has been playing very well lately, but it is hard to argue his point. It is tough, looking at the roster and envision a contending team anytime soon. Another good reason to be aggressive this off season.

    1. It’s easy to argue his point because he apparently knows s**t about the Phillies system. What pitchers have backed up, Appel? Nola has been very good and Pivetta has held his own more than I would have expected based on the development of his off-speed stuff. The rest of the young pitchers in AAA and the majors are about what was expected (back of the rotation starters).

      JPC has been solid after a terrible start, Kingery is ready as is Hoskins. Thompson and Altheer have been solid in the OF.

      The Phillies biggest holes in the rebuild are for a middle of the order bat and a top of the rotation starter. With around $100M in available payroll available, I expect they will be able to plug those holes..

      Most publications that focus on the minor leagues have bumped the Phillies system up in their mid-season rankings so they must also have an argument with his point.

      1. His point being that the Phils’ rebuild has not moved forward very much and their getting back into contention may be a couple of years longer than projected. You find that to be inaccurate? There is, currently, no projectable All Star caliber player, other than someone making the team because they have to have 1. Maybe Kingery is ready as is, but he is in LHV. Cesar is the 2B, and will be there next year to start the season. JPC has been ready but not yet starting in the Majors for a contending team. Catcher is wide open, TJ is still the 1B and, assuming Nola is a #2, they need a #1 and a # 3 SP. There is no 3B and so the timetable for contention may be a little further than 2019. I assume you meant Williams and Altherr in the OF and I agree with you there. But, the goal is to rebuild into a contender and they do not project as a .500 team yet.

        1. Yes, I do find that to be inaccurate. Schoenfield and maybe you? seem to be of the belief that the rebuild is solely predicated on them filling every spot on the 25-man roster with current internal options. My take on the rebuild is that they have move the rebuild forward quite a bit this year and have established enough internal options to create a core of the team and then use that big wallet they have sitting there to hasten the rebuild.

          For the most part, I think they have that core about ready to go. They have 3 viable starting pitchers (Nola, Pivetta, and one of several 5th starter options) with multiple additional bullpen arms among all of their young pitching. They have 1b (Hoskins), 2b (CeHe or Kingery), SS (JPC), CF (Odubel), and maybe a corner OF (Altheer) spot filled with young players.

          With their financial flexibility, they need to upgrade 3b, C, and find a corner OF. They also need 2 starting pitchers, including a TOR guy.

          I think they can start doing that this off-season so it’s not unrealistic to expect them to be closer to a .500 team in 2018 with 2019 as the target season to become a playoff contender again.

          1. 3up, I don’t expect them to fill all of the spots internally, and fully expect them to use their financial ability to acquire players. I agree with you on the SP. I think Nola is a #2 and Pivetta and Eickhoff can be in the rotation, but they need a #1 and a #3, which I want them to acquire either by trade or FA. Doobie can bat 7th on a contending team, and while I am pleased with Altherr, he is not yet a definite to be part of a contender. And, Hoskins may be the guy at 1B, we do not know that yet. I expect another trial year for Franco next year, but I am not very hopeful. So, I think we have Nola as part of the core, and a couple of guys who can play on a contender, but I would not consider core pieces. That is my issue. I expected contention in 2019, and I don’t see it yet.

  31. Ken Giles did the Phillies a solid tonight when he spat up a HR to Yoan Moncada in the bottom of the ninth to tie the game. Moncada had a walk off single in the bottom of the 11th, to allow the CWS to finish off a sweep of the Astros.

  32. Luis Garcia is Pitching batting practice again ,V, V done for the yr . Bring up Elsemann or Liebrandt or let Lieter start. Bring Rios up. Phillies will take the series against the Mets , after Degrom the don’t have a starter.

    1. Don’t know where you heard VV is done for the year. If he can’t make his next start, Lively will replace him. They’re not going to add Eshelman to the 40-man.

      1. yup, Tom Esh will not be called up and so is Kingery regardless of what they will do in next coming weeks in AAA.

        although it’s a little disappointment, that’s where the SP pool will help the Phils — Lively, Jake, Anderson before any non-40.

      2. He should he can’t pitch VV hurt most of the time . Leiter come in they need someone that can go at least 5 ings.

        1. Tim….ViVe’s middle finger numbness could be caused by a pinch nerve, or carpal tunnel. Hopefully it has nothing to do with his repaired UCL which he had the TJ for back in 2011.
          But get yuor point……the guy does not want to be labeled ‘injury prone’, but he sure seems to be going down that path.

  33. Anyone think we could pull off a trade with the Blue Jays. I suspect they are ready to go into full rebuild mode themselves Tulo could possibly be done and that’s where we come in

    We take on Tulo and say half to 3/4’s of his remaining $58 million and we get Marcus Stroman who will be going into his age 27 season and not FA eligible until 2021.

    We give up Galvis/Franco/Pivetta and hope Tulo can bounce back enough to play 3B

      1. Romus I was just talking to my neighbor about there son who signed with twins Found it interesting they tried to change his swing, and he went into a slump. Last night back to his old swing and hit a homerun.

        1. yeah rocco…can identify with a slump, been in one for awhile now. maybe the Asian Palace tonight and some stir fried fish with the XO sauce XO…

    1. I can say with certainty that the Blue Jays will NOT be going into rebuild mode in the offseason. The Blue Jays lead the AL in per game attendance and they just raised their ticket prices. They will not kill their golden goose.

  34. Is Freddy a Gold Glove candidate?
    Not by SABR SDI as of mid-July’s grading:

    Addison Russell…CHC…6.1
    JT Riddle …MIA…6.0
    Orlando Arcia…MIL…4.0
    Corey Seager…LAD….3.4
    Zach Cozart…Cin…2.6
    Nick Ahmed…ARI…2.1
    Brandon Crawford…SFG…1.5
    Trea Turner…WSN…0.7
    Freddy Galvis PHI 0.0..********************
    Trevor Story COL -0.4
    Dansby Swanson ATL -1.1
    Jordy Mercer PIT -1.3
    Erick Aybar SDP -2.3
    Chris Owings ARI -2.9
    Jose Reyes NYM -3.7
    Aledmys Diaz STL -5.2
    Asdrubal Cabrera NYM -7.8

    1. I’m sorry Romus. That ranking does not look right to me. Galvis is significantly higher than that. I don’t know how they arrive at their #s, I rely on you for that, but Galvis a .0? No way

      1. matt13…….agree….but then again i do not see all the other top rated shortstops on an everyday basis.
        The guy from Miami surprised me…JT Riddle.
        Anyway, they do have Doobie rated 2nd, right behind Inciarte as the best in the NL.

          1. That sounds more like it. I am not saying he is the best in the league, but Top 3 in the NL and Top 6 in MLB is where I would say he fits. And, Doobie just drives me crazy. He had a terrible May, just awful. Otherwise he has hit very well and payed top level Defensive CF. I don’t know what they can do to just get him to play with his head in the game. He has the ability to be a really good player, but teaching baseball smarts is problematic.

      2. I am sorry but the validity of these mathematical fielding stats is still anything but scientific. I will go with Rocco and say – all you have to do is watch Freddy and you know there is no possible way these numbers make any sense whatsoever. Addison Russell is considered the greatest fielder ever for several years (sarcastically written) yet I don’t think he is visually as smooth or effective as Freddy and not even close to the Cleveland shortstop, Lindor.

  35. Next Let’s send Cesar to the Pirates in Exchange for any of the following : Luis Escobar or Taylor Hearn and Josh Harrison

    Pirates are always looking to save money and his 2018 number is $10.5 million his remaining years beyond that are reasonable club options. If Tulo can’t play then Harrison is my 3B for the time being.

  36. Now the grand finale with the White Sox Herrera for either of the following

    Lopez or Kopech straight up or

    Both Hanson and Cease

    What do you think Romus

    1. DMAR…..I think you need to to get ready for your NFL fantasy draft and put baseball on the back burner for awhile…though with all the movement……I like that WSox deal for those pitchers. But would you be opposed to trying to get Rodon somehow?.

      1. Not that i’m a hater, i been pushing for a Doobie trade since he is the only piece that can bring back a top arm close to majors. that’s why i also like to try trade Cesar while he’s hot since 2Bs don’t normally bring back a lot.

        CWS is a good target with Doobie as trade chip – they have legit arms across the board with Lopez, Giolito, Kopech, Hansen, Cease, Fulmer, Adams, Puckett.

        I don’t like the Cesar trade to PIT, maybe for Baz (how I wish). Waddell looks like a Johnny A. type – Cole Tucker + Waddel + PTBNL for Cesar.

        1. How can you not like Escobar or Hearn….those two have serious arm talent

          I mean yeah if you can get Baz you do it even Keller you do that. Keller has risk in his back though. I’d probably shy away if the medicals weren’t solid.

          1. DMAR – it’s not me, and I like Hearn (not much Escobar). I just think that both Escobar and Hearn are not prototypical Klentak/Johnny A. type those pitchers that commands the strike zone (pitcher not thrower).

        2. While he’s hot? He’s been “hot” for 2 years now . . . that’s called a trend and to be honest he’s still trending upwards . . . you’d be shocked if I put him up against other MLB 2B (I did this at the end of last year and he was top 5 among MLB 2B in just about every single offensive category outside of HRs). Come years end I believe that he would be among the top as well, however missing time MAY have hurt him a bit. We need players that produce and players that we know can produce, not only do we have this in Hernandez but it’s not a coincidence that once he came back from the DL, the offense instantly improved and well as the team.

  37. From I seen it seems like the Mets didn’t want to pitch many fast balls to Hoskins . Maybe they seen or heard the rumor about Hoskins hurting only FB. I didn’t to see the his At Bat. My Micowave decides to break right before the game.

    1. Hoskins Bat Speed is real and he was spitting on junk in the dirt. The first strike out was looking and it was 95+ paint on the outside corner after seeing a bunch of off speed in.

      I think he’s going to be the real deal

  38. Let me roll out my new look 2018 Phillies

    Some guy in LF (maybe just platoon Cozens)
    Some guy catching


    I’m feeling brilliant on this Friday. Get it done MK

    1. yeah, Middleton is locked and loaded to make a Harper and Machado grab. And that will not be enough. Middleton will do something that no MLB owners have seen and get Trout from LAA.

  39. Another brutal performance by Pivetta. Long story short, absolutely no command with his fastball and he got shelled yet again. He now has an unsightly 6+ ERA and increasingly negative WAR. Might be time to send him down and bring back up Lively.

      1. Right now, he’s a mess. I don’t think he knows where his fastball is going and he has no confidence in his secondary pitches. He’s still young enough to improve, but he’s not keeping the Phillies in games.

        Mark Leiter needs to be in the rotation. He’s throwing the kitchen sink up there, and it’s translating into a very decent SO rate. He’s getting the job done, he needs to pitch.

  40. You could trade every reliever in the Phillies Bp and trade them by next yr. I never seen were pitcher’s throw 3 pitches In the same spot back to back to back.Neris gets buried by his FB all the time . This Spitter is why he’s in the majors and use it. yes Pivetta needs to go down learn Fb command. Saying that I bet you Phillies win the next 2 Nola ,Eflin.

    1. Tim I admire your optimism. You come on here every night and list all the wins that are still ahead on the Phillies schedule. However, the fact is … this team is on pace to lose 102 games. They’re going to lose a big number of games again next year, also. Most fans aren’t happy about this, but it won’t be until 2019 when we may be watching a winning team again.

      1. There still over 500 in there div they play SD and SF . The Mets next 2 starters have been horrible. There also 500 since to the all star break. They loss alot of 1 run games if they find a way to win them . The FO looking for a turning pt. I mean the FO might be looking for Nola + 3 other starts . They said time after time after time as soon as the Sp is found they will buy the bats .

  41. Hopkins just finished his second game he getting to see alot of pitches he’s never seen in the minor’s . He’s not the type of player to make an impact with his Defense or baserunning. He has about 140 at bats to see what he can do against ml pitching.b

    1. Tim…you will get it right someday…HoSkins, not the “p”.
      And I am not worried at all about his start…..better check some of the greatest baseball players, of all times, first 50 or so MLB ABs……then look at the one s who came on and hit right away even with a HR in their first game or AB..
      When he gets it going..,,better duck.

      BTW….Aaron Judge’s recent slump after the all-star break….is almost identical to his call up slump from last August thru September….so weird.
      And naturally….people are now blaming the ‘home-run derby’ jinx.

      1. If your ever remotely suggesting that Hoskins Is going to one of the best baseball players of all time your nuts. Hoskins isn’t ever on the same playing field as Judge power not many people are. There were some poster’s that were worried about him not hitting yet. Even John Kruk said the he’s not used to seeing pitchers that have 3 good pitches. There just throwing a lot of breaking ball stuff his way. I’m sure he’s going to hit .350 .450 .600 20 homeruns by August . Butt he also wouldn’t be The RH older 1st baseman that couldn’t do it.

        1. Oh boy….you are tough….it was an analogy…..did i suggest that???????
          The greatest struggled early…..period….kabeeessh!
          As for Hoskins vs Judge……my money is on Hoskins ….he will surpass Judge in two years in oWAR or any way you want to measure offensive productivity.
          Mark that down.

  42. Of the the following six below….the top four have to eventually go.
    And rather relatively quick over the next year or two.
    Their OBP is not conducive to a playoff caliber productive lineup.
    Only Cesar and Odubel should be held onto.
    Maikel is the only third basemen in the system of value right now,
    so that will be a difficult decision that will have to be made.


    1. It really makes the case to keep Cesar & move Kingery to 3B. Eventually Alfaro will also need to be purged.

      JPC OBP is undeniable, though Freddy has gotten better year or year.

      Williams & Altherr have shown a willingness to get better.

      1. Agree with Alfaro….. and I think Knapp could be a keeper.
        Alfaro , however, could be a late bloomer. Cardinals Molina could not hit a lick when he first came up and stuck with it and then around his 4th year it all clicked for him

        1. Yadi was the typical, all glove, no bat catcher. His D was great, so that kept him in games. I don’t think you can compare Yadi to Alfaro, whose D is a still a work in progress.

        2. I think you both are spot on with Alfaro. I’m not saying he won’t be a MLB catcher, but right now he has a lot of holes in his game and you only needed to watch last nights game to see that. While Molina could not hit a lick when he came up, he did know how to catch and other than the “cannon” Alfaro possesses, he needs to learn how to catch and to hit.

    2. Ellsbury .319 Villar .281 Y Molina .313 Grichuk .284 Zobrist .315 Heyward.308 Baez .306 M Machado .313 Adam Jones .309 Chris Davis .311 Albert Pujols .273 Brain McCann .313 ODor .252 Napoli .285 Billy Hamilton .299 Alex Gordon .289 Mike Moustakas .316 Alcides Escobar .247 Tim Anderson .261 Jose Iglesias Trevor Story .298 Cargo .297 Kevin Pillar .295 Hunter Pence .297 Brandon Crawford .279 you going to kick these players to the curve . I swear I heard good defense and good Pitching win Champions

      1. Great post & response.

        Fundamentally, the high OBP is the better approach.

        Also consider these players are complimentary to higher OBP guys. Look at the players & teams cited, Royals & Giants put runners in scoring position with singles, bunts, & sac fly. They did it very well with strong pitching & without bopping home run hitters. Also, there are many players listed there that haven’t won anything. Pujols is a career .387 OBP guy & has fallen off as his career comes to a close. Ditto Molina is a .337 career OBP.

        The overarching question is do you generally get the same production (HR & RBI’s) result whether taking an aggressive or a patient/selective approach at the plate?

        I would say yes, but the overall team may not benefit as much. Getting on base gives your team more opportunities to score.

        1. That’s true but ” who’s on First ” the fast lead off runner or the Slow Catcher or 1st baseman . Now many times over I’ve seen the slow 1st Base man walk then the slow catcher hit into a double play. A Veteran pitcher will pitch around the 5 hole hitter to get to the slow Catcher . Plus if you have a slow runner on 1st it usually takes 2 hits to score him or a triple or Homerun.

        2. Tim…..see any trends below?
          Top Ten 2017 OBP Team Leaders:
          Astros- 353

          Bottom Ten:
          24. Balt-.314
          26. CWS-.313
          30. SD-.300

            1. Oy vey!
              Check the percent of PAs that Maikel, Freddy, ToJo, Rupp have vs the other 4 position starters and tell me then ….we are only talking players.
              Their four individual percentages affects the overall team statistic.
              They alone have approx 1600 PAs of the teams total of 4300….counting over 30 other players.

            2. To further illustrate the futility of those four and how it affects the overall team performance.:
              The top seven Phillies PAs with their respective OBPs.
              1. Freddy-467…….305
              2. Maikel-459…….281
              3. Doobie-453……329
              4 .ToJo-427……….304
              5. Cesar-370……..365
              6. Altherr-336…….357
              7. Rupp-253………316
              2765 PA total of the seven……the aformentioned four-1606……58%

            3. Hoskins going to hit he’s facing so off the worst pitching in the next couple of days. The Defense can’t be judged by .obp.

  43. Here’s a fun stat between Neris , Ramos and Garcia they lost 15 games that the Phillies back of the bullpen.

  44. I would offer a package to the Pirates centered around Herrera and Hernandez in exchange for Gerrit Cole a my big trade acquisition this off season. Then try to sign Darvish. That would make .500 in ’18 a reasonable goal.

    1. Here that trouble Herrera stays the can’t replace him you don’t trade what you can’t replace . Plus Cole would take much more then that . Try Sixto , Alfaro, Franco,V,V .plus Neris , The Pirates strength is there Outfield and 2nd . Freeze is at 3rd, your going to have to replace Cole and up grade there catcher . They would make a counter offer . That’s how a trade goes maybe go after Nova.

    2. That is the kind of trade you make when the offense is playing well & the team is pushing the playoffs. Until then, you continue building. Not worth spending that kind of capital for a team that is still a long way to be being a contender.

      I see Darvish resigning with the Dodgers or going to the Yankees.

      Also, with Boras as his agent Cole will not resign here.

  45. Cole 26 yrs old timeline is good , btw Niel walker traded to the Brewers , Ryan Howard signed by the Rockies.

  46. Nola does it Again ,Galvis and Tojo and Ceaser come up big. Franco throwing the leather around. Luis Garcia gets save ,CWS lose Phillies 2 back . Hoskins looking for lucky Charm Cozens. Eflin on the bump against rookie with a 8.49 era .

  47. Several weeks ago I cited a quote………….that stupid is forever, you can’t take a pill, you can’t take a class, it is forever. Today you saw the proof of that wisdom in the baserunning debacle in the Phillies game.

    1. Odubel got caught not paying attention. However, Freddy (and Sammy) shouldn’t be let off scot-free. That ball was hit deep enough to score on.

    1. No. As a matter of fact, just hours after I posted that prediction, Matt Klentak told the press it was unlikely he would make any waiver trades.

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