Phillies Make 40-Man Roster Moves; November 18, 2016

With the 8:00 PM deadline approaching, the Phillies finalized their 40-Man Roster for the Rule 5 Draft.

The Phillies chose to protect 11 players from their minor league system, and therefore had to remove three players to make room.  LHP Elvis Araujo was not only outrighted but immediately claimed off waivers by the Miami Marlins.  In addition, RHP David Buchanan and RHP Jimmy Cordero were designated for assignment.

The newly protected players are RHP Mark Appel, C Andrew Knapp, LHP Ben Lively, OF Nick Williams, OF Dylan Cozens, LHP Elniery Garcia, RHP Ricardo Pinto, RHP Nick Pivetta, 2B Jesmuel Valentin, RHP Drew Anderson, and RHP Alberto Tirado.

The 40-man stood at 32 players at the beginning of the day.  Three deletions and 11 additions bring the total to 40 players.  Looks like the Phillies will not be active participants in the Rule 5 draft next month.

63 thoughts on “Phillies Make 40-Man Roster Moves; November 18, 2016

      1. Cam Perkins or Pullin @ 33% chance. Rebuilding teams can take a shot at Tocci (but it’s highly unlikely).

        1. 33% chance of Perkins? Ummm, no. Perkins has about as good a chance as Tocci of getting selected. Which is zero.

          I’m smiling – not being snarky despite my choice of words. But seriously, I think there is zero chance Perkins is selected. And I like Perkins

    1. the Phils can trade Cordero if there’s any interest from other teams or (i think) can be returned back to the 40-man and DFA another player.

      1. KuKo…..they have to make the trade of Cordero within 7 days I believe since he is DFA. But I think his imaging must show some shoulder concerns that doesn’t look promising down the road.

  1. Surprised Garcia, Klein, and Mariot made it before Cordero and Buchanan too.
    Valentine addition likely means no Andres Blanco returning.

    Andrew Pullin could be the one we lose in rule 5.

  2. Why’d they get rid of Jimmy Cordero. I have heard that he might be a pretty good bullpen arm that throws around 100 mph. I saw him pitch in reading this year and he didn’t look bad at all, the one bad thing would probably be not that great control, but they could have worked that out and some of those players they kept over him just aren’t good.

  3. Am I missing something? They did not get rid of Cordero, he is designated for assignment. Maybe I’m wrong but I read somewhere else that Cordero, and Buchanan made it through waivers already.

    Also Jim, can’t we still try and slide a Sev or Luis through waivers and participate in the rule 5?

    1. Yeah. I was thinking the same thing. There are still about 4 players on the 40-man who could be DFAd no problem. Is that possible before the rule 5 draft?

  4. Cordero and Buchanan were both designated for assignement which means if no teams claims them to their 40 man roster then they can be sent to AAA roster. Elvis Araujo was claim by Miami to their 40 man roster thus he is now their player. If the waiver is revocable waivers then the Phillies could pull him off then designate another player.

  5. I thought for sure they would protect Cordero, Anderson is a mild surprise over him. But Sev over Cordero makes no sense. Cordero is a hard thrower that could stick on a team’s roster hoping he harnesses his command. We know Sev’s ceiling and it is not very high.

  6. Perhaps the Phils think the injuries Cordero suffered in 2016 scare some teams away- he only threw about 11 innings and I read his velocity is down. Remember, teams cannot stash Rule 5 players on the DL or restricted list- they have to be active fora minimum number of games. Maybe the Phils don’t believe Cordero could meet that criteria.

  7. Ok, now lets pull a 25 man out of these 40?

    SP -5- Hellickson, Nola, Eichoff, Velazquez, Efflin or Thompson or ?

    RP – 7- Neris, Gomez, Neshek, Ramos, ?, ?, ? (rotation of Garcia, Gonzo, Mariot, Rodriguez, and a couple to be added AAA arms)

    1st – Joseph
    2nd -Cesar
    SS- Galvis
    3rd-Franco
    C-Rupp
    OF- Herrera
    OF – Kendrick (IF help)
    OF – The mighty Quinn

    Bench

    Altherr OF
    Asche OF (IF help)
    Valentin (Utility) Have Featherston if someone gets hurt, or get AAA utility guy
    ?
    ?

    So the questions going forward are;

    1) Back-up catcher – do we really think they will use Knapp or Alfaro????
    Alfaro would be the best defensively, but would he get enough at bats to stay sharp?
    Knapp can play first but he is lacking as a defensive catcher
    Ideally they would get a defensive back-up catcher to work with the young staff when Rupp gets spelled, but now you take up a space on the 40 man and expose someone.

    2) Who is the 5th bench guy?

    3) Klentak said he wanted to improve the Bulpen, unless Neshek is amazing I don’t see that happening with this group. Commiting to another reliever?……another 40 man roster spot.

    4) There are probably other questions here like, can valentine really be the utility guy they need for SS? but I’ll save some for you guys 😉

    1. The Phillies could make a trade or 2 at the Winter Meetings , moving 2 or 3 prospects just put on the 40 Man to improve the 2017 team, also opening a spot or 2 for a back up catcher and or another RP preferably a lefthander

    2. rh – not necessarily directed at your roster choice, but I personally don’t buy for a second that Quinn has any kind of inside track at the 25-man out of ST. I think he starts at LV until he gets hurt, I mean promoted

    3. Stassi is getting alot of AB’s in winter ball. I wonder if they have any thoughts on playing him part time with Jpseph or trading him.

      I thinl Ascher and Lively have as good or better chance to stick as Thompson. They have better control.

      Again; if there was ever a case to be made for a 6 man rotation, this team would make it.

      I don’t know that Joseph is a long term answer at first base. I guess it depends on how well he hits.

  8. Phil Klein, too. Didn’t expect him to remain on the roster over Elvis and Cordero. What does Klein offer? I’m this site’s biggest support of replacement-level big league starters, and even I can’t rally behind Klein.

    Like everyone else, I thought Mariot would be the first one gone. An older, mediocre reliever, with zero upside. Awesome.

    And I really can’t imagine Valentin would have been selected in Rule V. I guess he could serve as a utility / speed 25th man for some team, but he also seems to be, to bring back this site’s Word of Dec 2015, fungible.

    Anderson was the biggest surprise. Again, would have a hard time seeing him selected, but I reckon the FO knows a bit more about the process than me.

    Overall though, I like the youth infusion. We’ve turned-over 17 of the 40 roster spots since the season ended, over 40%.

    1. Agree with regard to Valentin and Anderson Fritz. Though I am happy that Anderson is now at zero risk. Losing him would sting

    2. Mariot , the Phillies had rotation’s on his slider as some of the highest in the league. Mack really liked him, so I guess that helps, Luis Garcia really have no Q .

  9. Valentine is a classic type to get selected in the rule 5. Hes played at AAA. He’s a middle infielder who can fake SS and hit a little. You’re kidding yourself if you think he wouldn’t get selected.

    I think the player that could be selected is Miguel Nunez. Not sure if he can stick though.

    1. He isn’t the classic anything. The classic variety in Rule 5 are pitchers. By an overwhelming majority. Valentin doesn’t have a standout tangible other than his age. Could he have been drafted? Perhaps. Was he at high risk? Not even close.

      Nunez admittedly crossed my mind, particularly after his stretch of scoreless appearances in the AFL. Little risk, but not a zero risk like Tocci or Valentin (sorry Romus)

      1. People really underestimate Valentin. He has a chance to be a solid major league player over time and I agree there’s a good chance he could have been drafted. By the way, for the Cesar detractors out there, you should be glad Valentin was protected as he is one contingency plan if there is a Cesar trade.

    2. VOR…agree,
      IMO, Valentin would be the first or second pick in the Rule 5….even by the Twins with Dozier sitting at 2nd base. GMs would love a guy with his pedigree and AA/AAA experience.

      1. A middle infielder with AAA experience, who can hit, who is still young enough to have prospect status, is a sure selection in the Rule 5. It’s silly to believe otherwise

        1. VOR – what’s silly is your smugness without facts to support your position. Didn’t I have to help you around Rule V time last year as well?

          Here’s a good place to start when considering Rule V risks.

          http://www.thebaseballcube.com/events/rule5/

          Next you need to identify and valuate the players on other teams who were left unprotected. This sets the market. So when we say things like Valentin will be picked for certain, or Valentin will be picked number one, or Valentin is the classic type of Rule V selection, it’s best to first equip oneself with some facts. It would be silly not to.

          1. Steve…..I was the one who posted Valentin could go one or two. A player like that with AA/AAA experience at his first shot eligibility, 51st pick in the draft, played multiple positions in the minors and with good , not great, K rate/BB rates, would ne attractive.
            In 2014 three middle infielders went in the first 8 picks…Deshields, OH and Taylor Featherston…..two were moved but they all had some sort of attractiveness to their game.
            And rarely is a player with no AA experience ever selected. Position- wise and pitcher.
            I am glad he was protected……also may indicate Cesar could be moved at the winter meetings now.

          2. If you feel the need to “school me” on the rule 5, have at it. You’re consistently one of the dumbest posters on here, but if it makes you feel better about yourself…

            1. LOL. Now who’s silly? You’re the only guy here who consistently gets his panties in a bunch when someone disagrees with you.

  10. I believe the below are the most notable who were left unprotected (am I missing anyone?). I’d hate to lose any of Pullin, Tocci and Pujols (Canelo is a nice player, but don’t get the prospect ranking at all), but I truly think there is a good chance we don’t lose any players. Maybe Pullin if he were still playing 2B, but not at a corner.

    Here’s my risk ratings:

    Andrew Pullin – 5%
    Jose Pujols – 2%
    Carlos Tocci – 0%
    Malquin Canelo – 0%

    1. Where was Incarte (in terms of level) when he was picked? I feel like he’s Tocci perfect comp in this situation (minus the RH/LH thing)

      1. Inciarte was drafted following the 2012 season. He began that season at full season A before being promoted to advanced A where he slashed 319 .377 .419 .797 in 270 PAs

  11. I love the commitment to the young guys. I was surprised a little by Valentin and I had heard that they weren’t going to protect Tirado so they must have decided Tirado over Cordero. I expected Buchanan and Araujo to be the first two to go but Cordero surprised me. Klein doesn’t seem that valuable to me but I know they want a veteran guy in case. I think Morgan already gives them that although I think his future might be in the bullpen. In terms of constructing the 25, more moves have to be made. They still need a catcher, an IF, and a 5th bench guy. That’s three more spots. Who? Klein might be one but they don’t have much more. I think if they sign a reliever they’ll release Garcia or Sev but only if they sign someone. Asche represents a spot, if not him then someone else who takes his spot but that person isn’t here yet. Quinn is certainly the starting OF at this point and Knapp may even be the back up catcher although I don’t think so. I still think Blanco and a catcher like Ellis will be signed plus another bat. Are trades coming?

    1. Murray – you look at the current roster, and its difficult to see an OD roster without a series of moves. Of the current who may be at risk, I would include
      Luis Garcia
      Phil Klein
      Michael Mariot
      Cody Asche
      Adam Morgan

      I think trades are coming, but even trades will be challenging all the same given that Klentak will want to avoid moving established and controllable MLB regulars (e.g. CHernandez, Rupp, Neris) for lower level prospects. Ultimately, I suspect many of the above five are at risk of being designated. Even so, if they really want a closer look at Klein, I suspect he would clear waivers. Same for Garcia. Asche may be traded as part of a larger package. I don’t think he would clear waivers though.

      As for Morgan, he has to be feeling the pinch here. So many pitching prospects and there’s another talented rotation at Reading, and yet another at Clearwater. I’m not necessarily predicting this, but I suspect if Morgan gets DFA’s, he requests and is granted his release.

      1. Klein is excess I agree but I have Asche, Morgan, and Mariot on my 25 so dropping them to fill other spots doesn’t help. I definitely think Garcia would be picked up if DFAed, he throws very hard still. Winkleman did a nice write up showing how 40-25=15 and how they have close to or even more than 15 guys who will be in the minors. Other moves are coming for sure

        1. Murray – I haven’t read Matt’s write up but certainly agree more is coming. The roster as currently constructed is borderline dysfunctional. And its not a one or two player fix either. It’s exciting to be honest. What would not be exciting is if the current construct was exactly the same heading into ST

      2. Steve…trades are very difficult during this time before the winter meetings….teams have finalized their 40 rosters….probably half maxed it and the other half will select in the Rule 5, so if they get what they want or hope to get in the draft, they will not trade for awhile until they assess their options. Throw in also the FAs out there who are being courted and will need to be put on a team’s 40 at some point…..so trades can be made, but the market right now is squeezed a bit.

      3. phils can have Morgan pitch from the pen as long man and LHP arm. Morgan’s remaining option years is something that the phils like. there are 4-5 players that can be DFAd before Morgan.

    1. @romus – can the phils still release let say klein or garcia and participate in the rule v draft? i think one of these guys will be released anyway. the phils probably want to see who will be available in the rule v draft that’s why they kept some of these scrubs in the roster.

      likewise, i also think that the phils DFAd Cordero to get interest from other teams. they can still return cordero back to the 40-man and release another player like klein, sevgon, mariot and garcia.

      1. KK – the Friday deadline was only about setting a roster in advance of the Rule 5 draft. There’s no blackout period – that is, teams can still trade or DFA players in the weeks and days leading up to Rule 5 draft,

      2. KuKo….I believe Tampa Steve is correct.
        Looking thru the CBA (Dec 2012) XIX Assignment of Contracts, , then realized, WTF, in 11 days this CBA is obsolete. So have to assume what Steve says is correct.

    2. Romus – maybe they don’t draft anyone, but I doubt it will be due a lack of roster flexibility on November 18th when the draft is still weeks away

  12. Based on current 40-man roster ONLY*, here’s my 2018 opening day lineup, barring trades:

    Crawford ss
    Alfaro c
    Williams lf
    Hoskins 1b
    Cozens rf
    Franco 3b
    Herrera cf
    Kingery 2b
    Velasquez p

    *Kingery and Hoskins are reasonable projections even though not currently on 40-man roster.

    1. 8mark, That is really being optimistic that all of those prospects advance, and that would be very nice. But, I see them going into FA for at least 1 starting player, probably in the OF. And, I would not be surprised if the Opening Day starter in 2018 is someone not here yet.

      1. matt13……if he isn’t hurt, and it is not JHellisckson, then I would be disappointed. Not that I am a faithful groupie of JH, but that he has taken a step backwards in ST and then apprehension grows as to what he does over the next three months in his trade chip audition again.

          1. matt13…sorry dude….thought you were talking about 2017.
            To your question…..no, he better be moved on by 2018

  13. I am really disappointed that Andrew Pullin was not protected on the 40 man roster. Pullin was a disciplined hitter who took walks, made contact and had some power at Reading. He also was a decent defensive Left Fielder and had a good arm. I hope he does not come back to haint the Phillies.

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