Open Discussion: Week of November 14th

Here’s the open discussion thread for Phillies’ talk and other topics.

The 40-Man Roster stands at 33 players.  Andres Blanco, Peter Bourjos, A.J. Ellis, and David Hernandez elected free agency.  Jeremy Hellickson has neither accepted nor declined the Qualifying Offer.  His deadline is 5:00 PM Monday.  If he declines, he becomes a free agent.

Key dates during the off season are as follows:

  • 11/3, 9:00 AM – Organizations began an exclusive five-day negotiation window (referred to as “the quiet period” in the CBA) with their own free agents.
  • 11/7, 5:00 PM – Deadline for organizations to submit qualifying offers to their free agents. This year’s QO is $17.2M.  This was also the deadline for organizations to exercise any club/mutual options.
  • 11/8-10 – GM meetings in Scottsdale, Ariz.
  • 11/8 – Free agents became eligible to sign with any team.
  • 11/14, 5:00 PM – Deadline for players to accept/reject qualifying offers.  Those who decline will become free agents.
  • 11/18 – Deadline for roster expansion to 40 players prior to the Rule 5 draft. (Since Nov 20th falls on a weekend, it is likely the Friday prior becomes the final date.)
  • 12/1 – The current collective bargaining agreement expires.
  • 12/2 – Deadline for teams to tender contracts to unsigned players on their 40-man rosters, including arbitration-eligible players.  Non-tendered players become free agents.  Tendered players who are arbitration eligible who do not accept the tender proceed to the arbitration process in February.
  • 12/5-8 – Winter Meetings in National Harbor, MD.
  • 12/8 – Rule 5 draft.
  • February – Salary arbitration hearings.
  • 2/14 – First workout for pitchers and catchers.
  • 2/17 – First full-squad workout.
  • 2/23 – Phillies’ spring training game v. University of Tampa.
  • 2/24 – Grapefruit League games begin.  Tentative schedule here.
  • 3/6-22 – World Baseball Classic.
  • 4/2-3 – Opening Night/Opening Day.

(Pinned Reminder:  Matt Harrison will remain on the 40-man roster until the end of spring training, at which time he can be added to the 60-day disabled list.  If they release Harrison, they will will lose the insurance money on his $13M guaranteed contract.)

Extra Innings

The Phillies traded Darin Ruf and Darnell Sweeney to the Los Angeles Dodgers for Howie Kendrick.  Immediate plans are for Kendrick to play left field.  Cesar Hernandez is not being shopped around according to Matt Klentak.

The Atlanta Braves signed two 40+  free agent pitchers this week, 41-year old R.A. Dickey ($8M for 2017 with an $8M team option w/$500K buyout for 2018) and 44-year old Bartolo Colon ($12.5M for 2017).  If both remain in the Braves’ rotation, the Phillies can look forward to maybe seeing the pair 5-6 times each during the 2017 season.

I covered a tournament at the Complex this past week.  Can you identify this former major leager?  Answer at the end of the post.

oil-can-boyd-steps-up-to-the-plate oil-can-boyd-in-the-box

Need a hint?  He spent most of his career in the American League and didn’t log a plate appearance until his 9th major league season.

Cumulative transactions: (Transactions will continue to be listed here, minor league specific transactions will also be posted in the weekly minor league discussion.)

  • 11/11 – Los Angeles Dodgers traded LF Howie Kendrick to Philadelphia Phillies for 1B Darin Ruf and 2B Darnell Sweeney.
  • 11/10 – RHP Luis Pacheco assigned to DSL Phillies
  • 11/10 – RHP Jose Perez assigned to DSL Phillies2.
  • 11/07 – 3B Carlos Alonso elected free agency.
  • 11/07 – LHP Anthony Vasquez elected free agency.
  • 11/07 – RHP Gregory Infante elected free agency.
  • 11/07 – DH Jake Fox elected free agency.
  • 11/07 – C Gabriel Lino elected free agency.
  • 11/07 – RF Christian Marrero elected free agency.
  • 11/07 – SS KC Serna elected free agency.
  • 11/4 – Traded a PTBNL or cash to the Houston Astros for RHP Pat Neshek.
  • 11/3 – Philadelphia activated LHP Matt Harrison from the 60-day disabled list.
  • 11/3 – Philadelphia activated RHP Zach Eflin from the 60-day disabled list.
  • 11/3 – Philadelphia activated RHP Charlie Morton from the 60-day disabled list.
  • 11/3 – Philadelphia activated RHP Aaron Nola from the 60-day disabled list.
  • 11/3 – C A.J. Ellis elected free agency.
  • 11/3 – 2B Andres Blanco elected free agency.
  • 11/3 – RHP David Hernandez elected free agency.
  • 11/3 – 1B Ryan Howard elected free agency.
  • 11/3 – RHP Charlie Morton elected free agency.
  • 11/3 – RF Peter Bourjos elected free agency.
  • 10/26 – IF Juan Herrera assigned to DSL Phillies2.
  • 10/25 – Signed free agent RHP Alexis Araujo to a minor league contract.
  • 10/25 – OF Maximo De La Rosa assigned to DSL Phillies.
  • 10/25 – RHP Scot Hoffman assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 10/25 – LHP Casey Brown assigned to Williamsport Crosscutters.
  • 10/15 – 2B Emmanuel Burriss elected free agency.
  • 10/13 – Signed free agent OF Luis Matos to a minor league contract.
  • 10/13 – RHP Frank Herrmann elected free agency.
  • 10/10 – RF Jimmy Paredes elected free agency.
  • 10/10 – LHP Patrick Schuster elected free agency.
  • 10/8 – DSL Phillies activated RHP Gregorix Mateo.
  • 10/7 – Outrighted Frank Herrmann, Dalier Hinojosa, Emmanuel Burriss, Patrick Schuster, Jimmy Paredes, and Colton Murray to Lehigh Valley.
  • 10/6 – Phillies signed free agent LHP Casey Brown to a minor league contract.
  • 10/5 – DSL Phillies activated 3B Leonardo Colagrossi from the 60-day disabled list.
  • Re-signed FA RHP Miguel Nunez
  • 10/6 – RHP Derwuin Marchan assigned to DSL Phillies2 (Signed July 2, 2016).
  • 10/4 – Signed NDFA RHP Scot Hoffman
  • 10/3 – RF Cedric Hunter elected free agency.
  • 10/3 – LHP James Russell elected free agency.
  • 10/3 – Signed free agent RHP Jose Perez to a minor league contract.
  • 10/3 – Signed free agent C Ronald Torrealba to a minor league contract.
  • 10/3 – Signed free agent RHP Luis Pacheco to a minor league contract.
  • Re-signed Chace Numata
  • The organization rosters are up to date.

Did you guess Dennis “Oil Can” Boyd?  He pitched earlier during the tournament, but I didn’t see that game.  He played second in this game and lined out to the right side after I took this picture.  He is 57 years old and was playing in a 35+ division.  Although Boyd pitched in the 1986 World Series, the DH was in effect when he pitched in Boston.  He didn’t record his first major league plate appearance until he joined the Montreal Expos in 1990.

194 thoughts on “Open Discussion: Week of November 14th

  1. rumors circulating that Hellboy and Neil Walker are the 2 having the biggest possibility to accept the QO. I can see Walker accepting but will be surprised if Boras allowed Hellboy to accept a 1-year payout considering the thin SP market.

    We have 6 more hours to find out.

    1. The only way Hellickson stays here is if the Phillies offer minimum 3yr, $40M, maybe a mutual 4th yr option. That’s IF he was sincere when he said publicly in more than one occasion that he’s really enjoyed his time in Philly. No way the QO is accepted and I doubt a new deal is being negotiated. Probably would have leaked out by now.

      1. Todd Zolecki did say, interestingly enough, that he senses the Phillies will not replace Hellickson but simply go with their young arms. We’ll see…..

        1. I generally believe what Zolecki says but I think he’s missed the boat on this one. I expect them to bring in/keep one experienced starter. It might only be Charlie Morton if Hellickson declines the QO (which seems likely) or someone like him, but I would be shocked if there were not an experienced arm in this rotation.

    2. with 4 hrs to go – Desmond, Yoenis, Encarnacion, Joey Bats, Trumbo, Jansen, Turner and Fowler reportedly to reject QO.

      I’m still OK if Hellboy accepted the QO, but I prefer the Comp Pick and the roster space that Hellbody will create by rejecting the QO.

        1. You would think so, but it might be a closer call for him than you think because I doubt he’s going to get offers with an AAV over about $14 or 15 million a year.

      1. 8mark…….if that is the case, the Phillies could look to move him again come July, if not ….not sure what the new CBA will have in regards to QOs in the future.
        I sure hope the Phillies do not come up short after 2017 and he walks again as FA and they receive nothing in return or compensation of less value as it stands now.

    1. Hellboy probably loves the cheese steaks and $17.2M can get him a lot! Jeremy resurrected is career in Philly and feel grateful about it.

      1. Yup – it was a close call and he bit (I still can’t understand why people said there was “no way” he would accept it, unlikely, sure, but not impossible – that ignored the economics of the situation).

        It was pretty clear that the amount he will be paid will exceed the AAV of a 3 or 4 year deal he would have gotten and Boras probably felt that his value will go way up if he can string together a couple of solid seasons after a few clunkers.

        This is not the optimum outcome, but it’s not bad at all.

        Welcome back, Jeremy!

        1. Jeremy has to make sure he stays healthy….any UCL or rotator cuff issues/surgeries… means that he has lost a good portion of his best future earnings capabilities.

  2. What do y’all think about signing Chase to play 2B, if the Phils were to get a great offer for Cesar? He would be a good OBP guy to influence younger players, be a LH bat near the middle of the order to break up all the RH bats, and he has a bit of positional flexibility as someone who could spell TJ at first vs a tough RHP. Lineup might look like:

    1 Quinn CF
    2 Herrera RF
    3 Kendrick LF
    4 Utley 2B
    5 Franco 3B
    6 Joseph 1B
    7 Galvis SS
    8 Rupp C

    1. Philly will always welcome #26 whether in red pinstripes or other uniform. Chase definitely fits a role with the Phils if Cesar got traded – veteran presence, connection with the fans and the LH bat they need (but I don’t think he will bat clean up, may be #5 hole). However, I’m not sure of Kendrick will have issues seeing Chase again.

      1. KK- retire his number, put him on the wall. He may be the greatest Philly not named Michael Schmidt….but don’t disgrace his “presence” by bringing back one half of what we knew…….

    2. Terrible idea. Utley is not a middle of the order hitter anymore and his return would only signal that the team is still trying to hold onto the past. That ship has sailed and they need to move on.

  3. If all are healthy, Hellickson, Eickhoff, Nola, Velasquez, and either Thompson or Eflin with Asher and Pivetta waiting in the wings isn’t a horrible crop to start the season.

  4. Im sure all the stepfords will say it’s a good thing Hellickson accepted the QO, but this is not what the front office wanted, they didn’t trade him at the deadline because they felt certain they’d get a pick when he rejected the offer. This was a miss for Klentak and I doubt it will be any easier to trade the guy this July.

    1. Alex…I tend to agree with you.
      For Klentak and Co it was not in their plans, if it were they would have not offered the QO but negotiated long term with Boras and JH.
      Now the new CBA may change the QO provisions for the future and may pigeon hole Klentak in selling low in July or risk may not receiving worthwhile compensation if he walks next season.
      If Hellickson reverts back to his pre-July 2015 form or gets injured….then the whole experiment was just, as they say in the military…’marking time’

    2. Not sure what the front office thinks about this, but I’m disappointed Hellickson accepted the QO. I just feel he won’t be able to repeat his 2016 season, and he’ll be worth less this summer than he was last summer. I was already adding extra slot money to the Philles pool for what should be a pretty good 2017 draft class.
      BTW … I sincerely doubt Cesar Hernandez will be able to duplicate his 2016 season. I hope Klentak can find a decent offer for him at the winter meetings. The Angels farm system is a mess. I doubt they would deal Jahmai Jones for CH. Matt Thaiss controls the strike zone the way the Phillies like, but he has no position. If the Dodgers don’t bring back Chase Utley, they are loaded with prospects. Walker Buhler would be a great get for CH. Another (less talked about) pitcher I’d be interested in is Mitchell White. Either of these guys and a B-level prospect would be enough for me to send the Cesar Hernandez to the Dodgers.

      1. @hinkie – i agree with you. i can’t blame the front office since they played it right – still young (former ROY) SP, thin SP market and Boras should be an easy rejection.

        If Klentak somehow flip Cesar for good value, this will ease some stigma of the the lost Comp Pick from Hellboy. Phils did a lot of good trades with LAD, so that’s a logical starting point. LAA is possibility but the shallow farm is a challenge considering LAA will not part with any of their Top 3 for Cesar.

        1. I went back and looked at how the comp picks obtained in 2013 were used and no stars jumped out at me, or even names I recognized. Is three years not enough time?

    3. It’s not what they wanted but it’s not a tragedy either. They took a gamble on getting the sandwich pick and it didn’t work but the alternate is that they got a solid veteran starter on a 1-year deal.

      It’s an expensive 1-year deal but there are no long term commitments.

  5. If he has a good season, I think he has good trade value. He will be in the middle of a second consecutive good season, and should be very marketable. I agree, however, that they wanted the pick, and then a veteran signing to trade in July. This only nets them 1 lottery ticket. Question?, Now that he is under contract for this year can he be traded before the season starts? And, is he then valuable to a team that did not want to pay him on a long term deal?

    1. Look at you, Matt, trying to orchestrate trades that look like the Sam Bradford deal. Very crafty! Yes, I think he can be traded as soon as he signs the QO.

    2. @matt – i think Hellboy cannot be traded until June 15 without his consent since he accepted the QO. July deadline is the best possibility to trade him

        1. @romus – thanks for the link, very good information. this is what I found in the link you provided related to matt’s post. It’s on Article XX – B. Free Agency (page 90 of the document/103 of the pdf file). i hate reading legal contracts because they construct it to confuse me.

          (5) Miscellaneous
          (a) Any Club signing a contract with a Player under this Section
          B after the expiration of the Quiet Period described in subsection
          2(b) above may not assign his contract until after the next June 15.
          However, notwithstanding the foregoing, such contract may be
          assigned for other Player contracts and/or cash consideration of
          $50,000 or less prior to the next June 16 if the Player gives written
          consent to such transaction.

            1. KuKo…….don’t stress over too long….the new one comes out in three or four weeks. But hopefully they will point out the changes from the Dec 2012 CBA in the forward.

  6. I think Hellickson accepting the Qualifying offer makes trading Velasquez a lot easier. Currently you have four locks and a solid 5th starter competition.

    Plus, Hellickson was seen as one of the better starting pitchers on the market. Now that one of the top options is gone I’d expect the Phillies to get a ton of calls.

  7. with the thin SP market (devoid of #1/#2/#3 players) which becomes thinner when Hellboy signs the QO – Klentak should exploit the situation to trade a couple of young, cheap and controllable SPs (i.e. Asher, Morgan, Lively, Jake, etc) to teams looking for SP help. I imagine if the Phils seriously dangle VV in the market – they can get a better return from the Giles trade. Even David Buchanan and SevGon can probably pitch lower level prospects in the current barren SP market.

      1. I say let’s package Morgan, Buchanan, Asche, SevGon, Galvis, Cesar, and Lively for Mike Trout. Make it so!!!

        [insert laugh here]

  8. @dan – glad you’re not the GM of the Phils. Ruf and Sweeney are in the same boat as Buchanan, SevGon, Morgan but the Phils was able to get value from them.

    Point is, just like the Kendrick trade, Klentak needs to explore opportunities to flip the excessive B-level talents the Phils have and not be impatient and emotional as some of the Phillies fans are.

    1. Klentak could have traded anything for Kendrick. The dodgers made the trade because he requested it, was making 10 million and had nowhere to play him. Simple salary dumb for dodgers not because they think either of those two players have a shot to make the team. Every team has AAAA pitchers like those 3 pitchers also, they are a dime a dozen. The Phils were one of the worst teams in the MLB last year and those players barely could break the roster and when they did they played poorly.

      1. @Dan – that’s the point. Klentak need to be sensitive look for the other teams needs and explore possibilities of trading some of the excessive B-level players that’s clogging the 40-man roster. Sixer’s Hinkie is a master of this technique. No team can fill an star-studded (majors and minors) line up. I’m pretty sure that these players that you said that have no value will find a spot.

        I’m not sure why are you over-reacting when the return that the Phils that should be seeking are lower minor prospects where possible hidden gems can be found.

        1. I am not over-reacting, just being realistic. If these players are clogging up your 40 man they will be removed not traded for any prospects. I think you overvalue bad players on a bad team just because its the home team.

          1. If we have a good organization, players like Cody Asche shouldn’t be on the 40man roster, let alone the 25. There should be NO problem protecting the real prospects needing protection so long as the filler pieces are removed.

        2. With all due respect Hinkie is gone for a reason. Granted he was a necessary ugly truth but at some point as a professional sports franchise you have to sign true professionals to your roster.

          The MLB is not the NBA. There is no hard cap and there are deep pools of amateur talent to rebuild from if you have a FO worth it’s salt.

          1. Amen DMAR. It doesn’t take a genius to trade away your best players and finish last in the league every season.

            It’s too early to judge if Klentak will be good or bad as a GM but the MLB and NBA are entirely different animals.

  9. So….we have 3 days until the 40man roster must be rule 5 set. Gonna be very interesting (and telling of MacKlentak) how they view some players (i.e. Tocci, Pullin), value others (i.e. Asche, Araujo), and treasuring insurance money (Harrison) considering who and what they want to make room for come December and beyond.

  10. Good explanation of why Shohei Otani isn’t coming to MLB this off-season … http://www.baseballamerica.com/international/pool-rules-will-keep-otani-coming-u-s/#FzTocZVOrdRlHrQz.97
    Too bad for Phillies he isn’t being posted this winter. The Phils would be one of the few big market (big spending) teams able to pay him. He’s going to break somebody’s bank probably next winter. The Phillies may have the smallest payroll in baseball with loads of cash to start spending.
    My dream rotation: Otani, Nola, Velasquez, James Paxton, Eickhoff

  11. Hinkie, they have to make a real effort to participate and that has to come from the top. They have failed to do so in the past. And, if I were to bet, I would say that they will be far down in the sweepstakes for Otani. Will they eventually spend big $ for FAs? Yes, I believe so. But, I don’t see them as ever being major players in the International field until there is a draft and just have to pick a player, not outbid the other teams.

    1. matt13…agree 100%.
      Thirteen MLB teams have busted the international monetary ‘ceiling’ and incurred the penalty since the last CBA of Dec 2012,
      The Phillies and Mets (thanks to Bernie Madoff) are two of the large market teams that have not.
      The others realized they could stock their farm and keep the pipeline flowing and still get quality Latin players for the $300K penalty threshold imposed on them.
      The Phillies were not that stupid….they were just that thrifty/frugal or some may say miserly.
      Ruben’s last hurrah was Jhailyn Ortiz at a record $4.4M….hopefully he turns out the way we all hope he does.
      As for Otani….count the Phillies out….$20M posting fee plus on top of that another $5075M in salary…forgetaboutit.

        1. Otani is going to get between a 250-300 million dollar contract. Maybe 8 years at 35 million per year (plus a 20 million dollar posting fee). His star power (stadium attendance, TV viewers, marketing, etc) will help offset his salary. I read (may have been on ESPN.com) that Otani may favor playing in the NL because he loves to hit (he hit 22 HR’s last season playing OF on days when he wasn’t pitching). I believe Middleton when he says the team will spend when the time is right. I think he mentioned the 2017 and 2018 FA classes in his interview with Jim Salisbury. BTW … the 2018 class features Manny Machado. And … MacKlentak, obviously, have ties to him.
          Another (not as highly publicized) Japanese pitcher who may become available as early as next year is Shintaro Fujinami. He’s 6’6″ 200 lbs. He features a 94-97 MPH FB, a plus slider, and he even uses an occasional splitter. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_gdMQuPrcI

          1. Hinkie……been down this road plenty time sin the past.
            As for Otani and his marriage with the Phillies….. I will believe it when I see it.
            However……..there is an interesting point here.
            If the new CBA next month ratifies an international draft…..Otani surely must be fall in that eligibility category, unless NPL or KBL players are exempt. I understand the current agreement between the NPL and mLB, but that still could left in place….the minimum service and posting agreements …and a team that doesn’t want to meet that requirement can just pass on Otani or whoever is the latest star, when their selection comes up and select someone else…or select and trade to a team like the Dodgers, Yankees, Sox Cubs, et al.

            1. Romus … if he waits until next off-season. Otani won’t be subject to the international restrictions (I don’t think that will change with a new CBA). He’ll be 23 YO, and he will have played five years of professional baseball. He’ll be a true FA.

            2. Hinkie…that is correct…if they keep the same ground rules from the Dec 2012 CBA. I am really interested in seeing what happens next month with the CBA.
              The Phillies are banking on a draft I assume….while the other big boys want to keep it status quo.

      1. The Phillies will definitely be in on this guy. Aces are so hard to find plus this guy will bring so much attention and excitement, it will bring fun back. Signing him would probably grease the wheels for a big bat signing here as well. And with our current payroll, we’ll have the money to do both. With our young cite coming together, Otani could be the missing piece. We need Charlie to talk to him.

  12. Figured, I’d throw this idea out there … I would offer Wilson Ramos an inflated one (or even two) year contract. He, reportedly, could be back from knee surgery by May 2017. He could be a big time flip candidate (especially if the Phillies eat his remaining salary). Let him share time with Cameron Rupp until the trade deadline. By that time, Jorge Alfaro could be ready to be called up and start his MLB career.

    1. Rupp had a good enough season to earn the full time job. We don’t need some one to share time with Rupp. We need to see if Rupp is a viable long term solution at catcher. The future may indeed be Alfaro, but sometimes things don’t work out. See TJ catching career as case in point. We only need a veteran backup to catch 1-2 days a week at most and to provide experience.No legitimate MLB catcher in his prime would be interested in splitting duties with Rupp.

    2. That won’t happen. I would be thrilled if AJ Ellis came back. He really seemed like he could help behind the scenes and he’ll only need one year. A back up catcher will require a 40 spot though so it’s still possible Knapp gets that job just to save a spot. I don’t think Knapp is seen as a front line catcher so back up could be his future anyway.

    3. The premise is a solid one Hinkie but here is the problem. If Ramos is willing to do that his agent has communicated that to all 30 clubs why would he choose the Phillies to do that with when there are probably several other clubs further along than us that can afford the same deal?

      Dodgers and Houston will be all over him…

  13. According to Matt Gelb, Klentak said he wants to add more than 8 minor league players to 40man roster. 7 spots remain as of today.

    SELL HIGH, SELL HIGH, SELL HIGH!!!
    If you can actively pursue trading valuable pieces like Rupp, Herrera and Velasquez – do it. You’ll either replace them with major league players or lower level prospects who won’t need to be placed on 40man.

    1. Moving Rupp won’t help, you still need two catchers on the 25. Even with him, they’ll still need another spot unless Knapp is the back up. A trade of Lively and Knapp, or that type, is more likely the type they’re looking at.
      I would protect 9 – Cozens, Knapp, Williams, Appel, Pinto, Pivetta, Lively, Garcia, and Anderson. That leaves Tirado, Pullin, Valentin, Canelo, Nunez as the most risky to lose. The Phils have 7 spots and will rank the next 5. To protect 9 will require 2 spots but they will still need more spots for a back up catcher and another bench bat plus they have to decide whether they want another OF or to go with Quinn. Harrison will go on the 60 day later on and that will allow for the Blanco spot. So, the Phils need to remove 4 or 5 guys from the 40 and it will need to be pitchers. Buchanan, Klein, Araujo, Garcia, Gonzalez, and Morgan seem to be the entire list. Rank them!

      1. Make that 4. Harrison was released. The Phils are really putting their money where their mouth is. They’ve stated their direction, and now they’ve literally booted millions just in order to have an extra spot to presumably protect one of their potential assets.

        1. Wow…thought they were not able to do that unless he was able to perform.
          Well the Phillies, have the insurance policy attached to his deal so that policy entitles the Phils to 75 percent of Harrison’s salary past a certain datef, but only if the insurance company determines he is unable to perform due to that specific back problem. They must have already had the insurance guys make that determination.

        2. this should answer all the uncertainties we have about harrison’s contract and whatsoever. with the number crunch, this is somehow an expected move to make.

    2. 8mark…..don’t you think that is a little aggressive trading all those youngsters who are already major league proven?
      Though Velasquez could bring back some quality prospects.
      However, I can see him moving both Lively and Knapp for a lower level premier prospect, which gives you a little more 40 flexibility…or 39 if they are going to draft in Dec.

  14. I don’t understand Harrison at all. From what I gather, $10Million just got thrown away for an extra roster spot, and there are a number of guys, Buchanan, Asche, SevGon, and there are more, that can be DFA’d. There are not that many that need to be protected. And, I don’t care about them wasting money, but waste it to acquire some prospect because you ate another team’s bad salary.

      1. I can see that happening Romus. My guess is Newcomb would front line that deal and they would get Albies or Demeritte….

        If I’m Hahn I do that deal he may even get more…

        1. DMAR…exactly how I see it The WSox can really get a bonanza haul for Sale….possibly more upfront quality than the Phillies got with Hamels.
          The Braves have 8 minor league pitchers that are projected mid guys or better at this point. Chicago could probably get three of them along with Albies.
          I would think Newcomb, Allard, 2nd baseman Albies, Toussaint and 3rd baseman Riley would get the job done.

    1. @matt13 – do you feel bad when Phils buyout Ryan Howard? The Matt Harrison move is almost the same thing – paying $$ to create a roster space although Harrison probably cost more.

      Having other B-level players still in the 40-man is another issue. But Klentak is not done with the cleaning yet so some of these stiffs will be released eventually.

      Just like the other posted who is allergic to these “unwanted” players, these stiffs may not help the team win but some of them can keep the seat warm until the next core is ready. 2017 still require patience.

    2. They did waste it to acquire prospects. They took on Harrison’s contract to increase what they got back in the Hamel’s deal.

  15. I think the number crunch is not only to create the 40-man but more so on determining who are the 15 players that will start in the minors (40-man less 25-man in the majors). It appears as consensus that the Phils need to protect 8 (Knapp, Pivetta, Lively, Appel, Williams, Cozens, Pinto, Garcia) and possibly Tirado to make it 9. then then will be around 7 that are already in the 40-man that expected to start in the minors as well – Quinn, Alfaro, Eflin, Morgan, Asher, Cordero and Goeddel). 9 + 7 = 16 and it doesn’t include borderline Rule V protections like Valentin and Anderson and veteran RP’s that will play in LHV.

    If no trades will happen, Klentak needs to move one or two of Quinn, Goeddel, Morgan and Asher in the 25-man.

    I still think that Valentin will be protected and will serve as the back INF and will have Quinn try to play RF and move Altherr as the 4th OF.

    With Neshek aboard, Gomez can be a non-tendered and move Morgan as the LHP from the pen with Joely.

    1. KuKo……I can count 7 pitchers now on their 40 who can be left unprotected and if selected , probably can be replaced…..Araujo, Buchanan, Klein, Mariot, Luis Garcia, Morgan and Sev Gonzo.

      1. @Romus – i expect 5 of them will not survive the purge. Morgan and SevGon might make the initial cut because of their ability to throw multiple innings. Whether both will survive the whole 2017 is a less possibility.

      1. He has also played a little LF, RF and 3rd base in winter ball.
        And no less competent that Cesar at ss.
        And why would you be concerned about ss anyway?
        JPC and Galvis are going to man it for the next generation.

      2. @murray – Valentin, if protected and promoted to the Phils, will take the roll that Cesar used to have – 2B/3B/LF/CF. JPC as SS can be called up is the need arise, although he needs a roster space. But if Quinn can still play a decent SS, that can help.

        1. None of these guys can play major league SS, Valentin is not a Ute, he’s a 2b only (as is Kingery btw). We’ll see….

          1. Majority of all middle infielders can play the OF…and that is something that has been going on for awhile. Kingery played CF in college as under classman…2014….made 47 starts in centerfield, four in right

            1. and in 2013…played in 41 games with 30 starts, including 27 in the outfield.
              I have no worries about Valentin ever going to LF, maybe a few worries if it is CF or RF.

    2. Well said, you can’t have more than 15 on the 40 who are not in the 25. People are forgetting that. Plus the team wants to be able to call up veteran players and not kids who are not ready in the event if injury. They may not have that luxury this year because there’s too many young pitchers who need to be protected. Injuries will cause problems.

  16. Kurt, the Howard buy out is due to an option. To exercise that would have cost $25Million. Not the same. I don’t see the need to waste the money that Insurance would have covered to just leave open 1 more roster spot. Their depth of prospects is not quite that high. They do not have unlimited resources, so if you are going to waste Millions then use it to acquire something of value. But wasting that money to keep Gonzales or Buchanan on the 40 man Roster makes little sense.

    1. @matt13 – i agree that legally it is not the same because of the difference in the way the contract is structured. but releasing the player before the contract ends to create the roster space is what I’m talking about. I understand that the new regime has not flexed their financial muscles yet, but I believe that the Phils will open their wallet if they need too. And the Harrison decision is an example of that.

      the Phils may not have unlimited resources, but they don’t have significant obligations too and not counting the new contract with Comcast. with that being said, i will not be concerned that the Phils will have no $$ to spend anymore just because they spend $15M for Harrison.

      Also, don’t worry about the Buchanan’s, the SevGons, Luis Garcia’s of the world – they will be gone soon. Look past beyond 2017 and you will not see these stiffs in the 40-man anymore.

  17. Full Disclosure! I just read that the Phils negotiated a deal with the Insurance Co., so they will receive a lesser amount, and still be able to release Harrison. So, the net loss is 2-3Million, not $10M. That makes much more sense. I also agree with Romus that there are a number of Pitchers who are easily replaceable, however, I keep Morgan and give him a shot to come out of the ‘pen.

    1. @matt13 – if you’re Klentak, who do want to have Gomez or SevGon? or you don’t want them both?

      Agree with you to keep Morgan. These 3 will probably the #38 (Morgan), #39 (SevGon) and #40 (Gomez) in the 40-man roster if the Phils only protect 8 or 9.

    2. Thumbs way up on that move! Anticipate another trade or two before Friday. Just a gut feeling…..maybe nothing big.

  18. with Ruf gone, Asche and SevGon are the most polarizing members of the 40-man. I expect both to survive the initial because mainly because of options remaining (they can be flipped between PHI and PHI) and ability to play multi role. But both may not survive the whole 2017 season.

    Mariot, I think is a dark horse (he might make it thru the ST) since it appears that the Phils like him and his breaking ball a lot. I prefer to protect Tirado or Anderson than to keep Mariot and if the Phils really like Mariot, I hope they just release SevGon or non-tender Gomez to keep the needed roster space.

  19. Kurdt, I prefer Gomez. I would not try the Closer experiment again, but as a set up guy he has some value, I think. And, I agree with 8mark that I feel another trade coming along. If Valentin gets protected, he may take the Blanco role, and then if Caesar gets traded he combines with HK to fill 2d base until JP arrives. I still see that LH bat, as well.

    1. Sam……good move…best starting LHP in the system.
      Cannot wait to see how he does at Reading…mechanics and delivery remind me of a yuong Johann Santana.

    1. @romus – i heard of the rumors too and read an article that NYY and PHI are the potential landing spots for Trout. If NYY will not let go of Torres, Frazier and one of their MLB ready young guys, I don’t think the LAA will pull the trigger.

      The Phils can start a package with Doobie, Franco and VV and one of (not all, so don’t overreact) Kilome, Medina, Sanchez or Gowdy as a start. And since Trout is still young, the Phils can even offer package of VV, MickeyMo, Doobie and Franco.

      1. KuKo…..whoa slow down.
        LAA will want MLB pitching for sure…young and already there…so VV is a certainty and the second pitcher perhaps, their choice of, Nola or Thompson or Eflin.
        Then one other third pitching prospect I assume like the ones you mention….Kilome, Medina, Sanchez or Gowdy
        A CFer to replace Trout….Doobie
        And catching I would think…..Alfaro
        Still not sure that any trade can ever happen…Moreno would be scolded worse than Trump, from the host of Angel fans.

        1. @romus – Trout is the splurge that I can’t contain myself. The 4 names I initially mentioned should be the minimum which I expect to go up. I think the Halo’s fans understood that the current FO is responsible for the barren farm, wasteful FA spending and wasting Trout’s prime. Agree with you that VV + another capable starter is needed, to go along with a current productive replacement for Trout in CF plus some high end prospects in low and high minors.

          Nonetheless, I think has enough assets to trade for Trout without really diminishing their ability to improve in the future. If the Phils can work for Trout, then, they should go hard with the big FAs including the Jap dude – Otani.

          1. KuKo……Trout is everyone’s fantasy dream trade.
            Unfortunately for him…he could be watching playoff baseball into his late 20s-early 30s from his couch if he stays an Angel.
            The Yankees have the assets to get him now this year….and then in two years the $$$$ to lure Harper if the Nats cannot get him to ink a contract..
            But Trout always has close to the field seats at Eagles home games and Flyer’s suite tixs.

            1. Hah…nice gesture on your part.
              But he probably already has them I am sure.
              Reminds me….my buddy was a basketball coach and in ’08 or ’09 was sent down to Millville, NJ to scout a basketball team.
              He said there 9 black guys on the court and this one white guy who was dunking and beating everybody down court….he was like a blur.
              Turned to another scout….and said, who the heck is that guy….he was told forget about him for basketball…..he is going to play baseball

            2. Any team trading for Mike Trout would almost surely have tp take on Albert Pujols’ contract as well. I don’t think the Angels would even be willing to trade Trout for the next couple of seasons. But, my best guess at what the Phillies would have to offer to even make LAA seriously consider a deal … Odubel Herrera, JP Crawford, Jorge Alfaro, Vince Velasquez, Aaron Nola, and Franklyn Kilome for Trout and Pujols.

      1. I’d also rather wait if it means giving up both Alfaro and Crawford (the Angels need a lot and especially a SS). I’d be alright with giving up Velasquez, Nola, Kilome, Herrera and Crawford, along with any 2 OF prospects of their choice. Any more than that leaves us thin at the top.

        QUESTION the Angels need to answer is: are they looking to restock their system OR their big league roster? OR BOTH??

        1. Hinkie is probably spot on. Not only do you have to give up a ton but you likely have to take a large chunk of that Pujols contract…

          and then and at which point you’ve now turned your own franchise into the Angels.

  20. lets say you knew Hellickson was going to accept the QO. Would you rather have Hellickson at 17.5, not being able to trade until mid-June, or have paid 8.5 to keep Charlie Morton (9.5 option rather than pay 1 mil to buy him out), where you could trade Morton at anytime or more easily put him in the bullpen as a long man if you have 5 healthy young guys you want to run out there in your rotation?

    1. if the Phils knew that Hellboy will not sign the QO, they could have asked less and traded him last july. with Morton coming back from injury and playing only 4 games, it’s no brainer to decline his option.

      assuming that the Phils know recently that hellboy will accept, the can negotiate a 2 to 3 yr deal will lower AAV. although IMO, a one-year deals is better for the Phils.

      1. KuKo…..a one year may be better for the Phillies….but in a trade-chip scenario a team could get more value in return on a ‘2 months + one year left’ on a contract vs the two-month rental….and still pick up a good portion of the second year salary….Ruben did that in the Ben Lively from the Reds trade for OFer Marlon Byrd.

        1. @romus – generally it makes sense, but for the Phils who will be challenged again with some roster decision in 2017 with JPC, Hoskins, Arano, Viza, (possibly Kingery and other LA prospects) coming up and needs to be protected, I don’t want that extra year or roster space (which the Phils can always payout) to worry about if a players gets injured and cannot be traded. At some point in 2017 and 2018, the Phils will transition to acquiring prospects to acquiring MLB players to get themselves ready to compete again in 2018/2019.

  21. Other than Josh Reddick, none of the FA outfielders appeal to me at all…except Cespedes but he doesn’t fit this rebuild.

  22. Gotta’ admit … it depresses me a little to research the 2017 draft knowing the Phillies will not have two first round picks (thanks to Hellboy accepting the QO), but I do it anyway. Scout has released it’s top 11. It’s supposed to be a good draft. http://www.scout.com/mlb/scouting/story/1725910-mlb-draft-2017-big-board-1-1?s=243

    I would be very happy if Kyle Wright somehow makes it to 1-8. He probably won’t. So, my “way to early” prediction for the Phillies is Mark Vientos. Then, I would hope HS LHP Trevor Rogers makes it down to them in the second round.

    1. Hinkie……I guess you will pass on the Stanford pitcher….Beck.
      I like LHP Brendan McKay of another Cardinal team…Louisville, if he comes around as projected in the ACC.

      1. I’m not big on Beck. McKay looks like a safe pick (high floor/low ceiling). The Phillies have a deep enough farm that they should seek a higher ceiling player. I do like DL Hall, but the Phillies don’t seem likely to pick a HS pitcher with a top 10 pick. This list has Tanner Houck at #6. I really like him, but I believe he’ll be a top three pick (might even go 1-1).

        1. Agree Houck, if all goes to plan, will be chosen in the first picks.
          McKay intrigues me because since he was a freshman….and now over 200 innings pitched…..his peripherals are all plus, sans 3.5 BB/9. Which is unusual for college pitchers that end up being top of the draft pitchers after their junior year….most times their freshman year they are pretty pedestrian and then into the second half of their soph year they explode and develop into outstanding college pitchers.
          Plus as a LHP it is more attractive to me. The Phillies will need a LHP in the rotation at some point….and most managers want to have a lefty in their top three come playoff runs.

  23. Williams, Cozens, Appel, Knapp, Pinto, Pivetta, Lively and Tirado (8) should be protected. El.García has already been placed on 40man, leaving 7 spots. I don’t think any others really need to be considered at risk of rule 5 selection. One player on the current 40man would have to be removed, barring any unforeseen transactions prior to Friday.

    1. 8mark……I see Luis Garcia….but have not yet seen Elniery Garcia…Sam Soap said the same earlier today….it would be a good move if he is, but where is the latest 40 with him on it?

      1. Romus, I just took Sam’s word for it. Didn’t actually see it posted elsewhere. Not sure why they wouldn’t announce those moves all together, to be honest. However El.Garcia seems a reasonable assumption.

  24. Why is there no talk about Crawford potentially playing 2B? I mean it sounds like the majority feel like Galvis should stay and Hernandez should go (trade) . . . if thats the case lets say Crawford is up by June 1st . . . why put the weaker defensive player at SS? I understand that it is late in his MiL development so asking him to switch positions might be tough for him (he would then have to worry about hitting ML pitching AND playing a new position) however you can make an argument that him playing 2B may actually take some pressure off of him. Galvis won’t be a free agent until 2019 at which time Crawford can move back to SS unless Galvis is re signed. (I know Kingery isn’t THAT far off but he isn’t exactly a cant miss or even top prospect)

      1. Yeah I was going back and forth on twitter with him about this article . . . asked him the same thing I posted above (About Crawford moving to 2B and Galvis staying at SS) he said he asked Klentak the same question during the season . . said they are going to give Crawford every chance to stick at SS, they view him as an “impact defender”.

        1. I’d call the Twins and see what they wanted for Doizer (only if he would sign a 2-3 year ext) . . . they are looking for catching help (Rupp or Knapp), Hernandez (to step in Doziers spot) and Lively . . . too much or too little?

          1. Eric D…IMO neither too much or too little, more like too old.
            Dozier’s age30 season is next season, not sure they want to go that route right now.
            I mean, you can always trade him or QO him if it is still around, at some point when Kingery is ready. Then again, when JPC steps up, Freddy slides over I assume. Then having Dozier becomes a little tricky maneuvering him around the lineup. His power would fit nice in the lineup as Mack wants.
            I just do not think Matt Klentak is looking for that veteran 30ish guy who will need to be signed for 3 years or more. I assume he prefers the one year deals with them..

          2. Rupp (or Knapp) + Cesar + Lively for a 30 yo Dozier has no upside for the Phils. Dozier might give the Phils extra 5 wins but that ‘s not enough to make the Phils a contender. You only do this trade is the Phils is only a 2B away. The Phils should be ok with Cesar and Howie at 2B (Galvis sliding when JPC comes up and Kingery coming up soon and Valentin/Canelo/Tobias in the pipeline.

      2. Cesar for Ventura would be a colossal fail…sorry Corey but that suggestion really makes me question your knowledge of the game.

        It’s always been en vogue to say good pitching beats good hitting but the reality is it doesn’t because at some point you need to score a run or runs to win a game. Any moves or trades involving Cesar should be with a focus on improving a line-up that was

        Last in OPS
        Last in runs scored
        Second to Last in OBP

        I’m under no illusion that he is some type of an All Star but what he is is a proven MLB hitter with a career OBP of 350.

        The assumption that you can trade that for mid level prospects or a head case pitcher is just dumb in my opinion.

        1. @DMAR – i think trading Cesar (or determining his trade value) is a separate issue from improving the offense. Phils can improve the offense with or without trading Cesar. If the Phils can trade Cesar for a big bat, that’s great since it addresses a big need. If not, then it’s still ok as long as the Phils receive something of similar if not greater value. I’m optimistic that the Phils will decide what’s best for the team if a situation wherein Cesar can be traded for a bat or arms or whatever.

          If I’m Klentak, I’ll pull the trigger on Cesar and Ventura swap although I doubt KC will do it. Ventura can be a very good trade chip to have and as fallback can be a shutdown bullpen arm.

          1. Determining his trade value for anyone outside of the Phillies FO is an exercise in futility. Klentak is never going to share with any reporter or us for that matter what he wants for Cesar nor is he going to say what is being offered. (I get it it’s fun to play around with it) but a modicum of sanity needs to be applied to it.

            Not withstanding Yordano being an idiot plain and simple his peripherals went in the wrong direction big time last season. I respect your opinion but disagree.

            This is not some kind of a board game or practice trading account or Fan Duel. Klentak and crew must be judged now by the team he puts on the field at Citizens Bank Park in 2017.

            This might be just my opinion but there is too much rhetoric going on right now about our prospects getting blocked. If they truly are MLB players that will take care of itself in much the same way the Thome/Howard situation did.

            1. Mostly agree DMAR although I believe Klentak and crew should be judged by the overall advancement of the organization and not by the team that is on the field in 2017. IF they need to regress at the major league level temporarily in exchange for overall advancement, then he’s doing a good job. For me, what the team looks like starting in 2018/2019 will show if the overhaul is working or not.

        1. 8mark….I would seriously think about that.
          But would the Dodgers give up their number one prospect for Cesar? Phillies may have to sweeten the pot…add a pitcher close to almost MLB ready, perhaps like Pivetta or Lively.

          1. Oh definitely Romus. We could sweeten that pot without breaking the system. I’ll go Cesar with Thompson and a good low level prospect if Bellinger is what I read in the scouting report. He moves well enough that they’ve played him on CF.

            1. 8mark….there does become a logistical concern….Bellinger will be playing at LHV in 2017, since he already has tasted the PCL with the Dodgers.
              So as an OFer……you will have to find room for adequate developmental time for Williams, Cozens, Quinn maybe, and also maybe Goeddel
              As a first baseman…Hoskins will be losing developmental time…or even Knapp with whatever they decide to do in the catching situation.
              So some juggling will need to be done.

            2. it will be funny if the Phils offered back all the players they received from Chase, Rollins and Chooch trades – Eflin, Windle, Richy, Berj-guy and the lower minor prospect – for Bellinger.

            3. I think you need to compare Cozens to Bellinger.
              Their tools are closely aligned with each other.
              Bellinger has a slightly lower k rate, but as for power and strength Cozens has the edge. Belllinger has a slightly better overall hit tool.
              Both may end up playing positions alike in the majors..corner OFers or 1b.
              heck…even looks like they also both played against each other in HS.

            4. I’m thinking Bellinger more as a 1b. Flexibility as an outfielder is a MAJOR plus. Lefty bat as well with serious power. In any case I’m not concerned about log jams. These things sort out somehow.

            5. I agree with Hinkie and Romus – no way LAD trades Bellinger for Cesar STRAIGHT UP. We’ve enough to make it happen.

          2. Bellinger would be a great get but tough to see that happening with A-Gone getting up in years.

            You got to look at the Dodgers where they have some depth and it’s pitching in my opinion.

            1. Good point, DMAR. I’m not as hot for more pitching just yet until we either trade a few young arms we have now or find out what we have in them. My thinking is LAD need a 2b and we need a legit 1b/OF talent, if only near MLB ready.

            2. DMAR is correct. The Dodgers aren’t going to trade Cody Bellinger for Cesar Hernandez. The Dodgers do have one of the premier farm systems in baseball, though. Unlike Corey Seidman, I’m good with dealing CH for prospects who don’t have to be added to the 40-man roster. I agree with DMAR when he says the Phillies should target the Dodgers pitching depth. Obviously, Urias and Alvarez are off limits. But, guys like Jose DeLeon, Walker Buehler (Romus mentioned him earlier), Jordan Sheffield, and Mitchell White are all guys the Dodgers might be willing to trade. Maybe CH for Walker Buehler and AJ Alexy (this year’s 11th round draft pick) … or … CH for Mitchell White and Mitchell Hansen. IMO … Cesar is at his absolute “trade high” point right now. I hope Klentak can take advantage of it this winter.

    1. @Eric D – with Cesar and Galvis as current 2B options and Kingery coming up soon, it doesn’t make sense for the Phil’s top prospect to suddenly change position. SS is a premium position and JPC is considered very good in that position so lessen JPC’s value? It will be different if there’s someone better that’s pushing or blocking JPC, but currently there’s no one.

      1. I really don’t understand how that lessens his value . . . If he was up with Galvis, Galvis is the better glove. Why are you putting your lesser defender at a premium position? Now if you think Crawford can be a GG caliber defender then of course you do that. But you’d also have to think Galvis was the long term solution at SS and Crawford would be the long term at 2B. Was just a question

        1. @Eric – i think it’s better to aim to have “2-way” position players starting everyday. Is Galvis a 2-way player? We’ve seen enough of him to say no. He’s projected to be good with gloves and that’s what he is exactly what he is. Is JPC a 2-way player? He’s is projected to be that’s he is way one of the top prospects of all MLB. 2B is a less demanding position, and if you move JPC in 2B you are now limiting his potential to be better defensively (which he has the tools to be as good if not better than Galvis).

          Granted that JPC’s future is still remains to be seen, but I’ve seen enough of Galvis and JPC to say that JPC is better be the future at SS than Galvis and I think I’m in the majority.

          If we’re talking about the 2B, Cesar (a more offensive than defensive player), if not traded, can handle that position so the Phils can keep the progression of their best prospect who is projected to be very good at a premium position.

          I also posted numerous times here that I see a Kingery-JPC double play combo in the next great Phillies core. I understand that both are not in the majors yet, but the peripherals and eye tests show me that they are the best options so I will not even think of the JPC (as 2B) and Galvis (as SS) that you are talking about. Worst scenario is I have JPC still at SS and Galvis (or Cesar) at 2B.

        2. as seidman said (in your post), Klentak will give JPC the chance to stick at SS — i think it said a lot. Klentak will not say that without consulting with his professional coaches/staff. I think there’s enough depth in the current roster and down in the farm to fill the 2B. Normally, teams ask players to learn SS since it’s the most demanding position and the transition to other positions (i.e. 2B, 3B, OF) is smoother than the other way around. Klentak is correct to stay with the course and play JPC as the SS and have other players to fill the 2B.

  25. Crawford’s career OBP right now in the minors is 372 and he is more than adequate defensively. I’ll take that right now over Galvis’ career 279…

    How would you feel about this as your opening day line-up as a paying fan

    Herrera
    Hernandez
    Kendrick
    Saunders or Reddick
    Franco
    Joseph
    Crawford
    Rupp consider Knapp for a back-up role with a goal of 300-350 PA’s between C and 1B

    1. I think whichever bat is acquired and has the highest OBP should lead off. Don’t care at this juncture about speed on the bases if the speed doesn’t get on base.

    2. If you had the Line-Up above you could also conceivably carry Quinn and ease him into an everyday role by allowing him to spell the guy in all 3 OF positions.

    3. How would you feel about this lineup in 2018?
      Quinn
      JP
      Williams
      Hoskins
      Cozens
      Franco
      Alfaro
      Kingery
      Pitcher
      With Herrera, Rupp, Cesar traded for pitching

      1. Going homegrown, Murray? I like the ideology of it but not sure you rebuild without veteran pieces. The last part is definitely viable, but rather trading for more bats than arms.

        1. Agreed but at this point you don’t know who won’t make it. That’s why the Phils won’t block anyone with a big free agent contract, until they see where they need an upgrade. Hopefully it will be fun these next couple of years finding out. Dusty Wathan has a BIG job this coming season getting his LHV team ready for the majors. We need LHV to win a lot of games

    4. I would be for Quinn and Knapp both getting 300 ABs next year.

      What are Knapp’s splits against left and right handed pitching?

  26. If JP is not a SS, then his value is diminished a great deal. I would agree with DMAR that there is not much to worry about concerning blocking our prospects. Look around the league at Seagar and Lindor and the Braves with Swanson. I fully expect JP to be that good. If Kingery is not better than Cesar then he is not a very good prospect. Only time will tell. Unless we get a starting OF or a top 10 prospect, there is no need to trade Cesar. There are plenty of ABs for Kendrick to get in the OF

    1. I know Freddy Galvis is an excellent defender, but JPC has a chance to be an excellent all-around player. He’s one of the cornerstones to the whole rebuild, and it seems like some are selling him short on his glove.

    1. Kinda of obvious ‘news’, like announcing that Christmas is coming. Will that make any difference in how they’re operating from today onward?

  27. News said that Middleton has been approved as the “control person” of the Phils by the owners. Middleton said that the Phils will approach the 2017 season and the years to follow with even greater intensity and determination — does it mean we’ll see more aggressive moves in the next coming months to put the Phils back to contention again?

  28. I could be wrong but I don’t think the formal announcement is cause for anything they do or don’t do from today forward.

    My guess is they’ve been operating under this assumption for many months.

  29. Reddick signs with Astros for 4/$52Million. I know we have discussed him, but there is no way I would have gone to a contract like that. Carlos Gomez may end up with a multi year deal as well, and I think we are looking at the Jon Jay/Logan Morrison type.

    1. I like this idea a lot. The 40 man Sept roster made the pennant races somewhat of a farce as non contending teams played a AAA roster in games against contenders.

  30. Utley in Hall of Fame Yesterday (Wed Nov 16)…
    Enshrined in the Arizona Fall League Hall of Fame before Scottsdale game on Wed night.

    I know how many on this site enjoy first person accounts of prospects so I can give my uneducated opinion on Bossart, Brown, and Arano. Tebow was heckled, of course.

    But I will say it had to be closest I have ever seen Chase and he was joined by Adrian Gonzalez who told the youngsters that they should all work as hard as Utley.
    I took some grainy pics and video that I have no idea how to post, but it was nice to hear many of Chase’s accomplishments. Not sure he will make it too Cooperstown but he did make it into a Hall.

    1. Besides that one Hall in Arizona…he should make it on a Wall also…….and no, not that wall everyone is talking about these days.

      1. Utley appears to be a shrewd guy. He wouldn’t mind not to be in a “wall” where he will be asked to pay to build it.

      2. It also has a fence now so it’s now a wall with a fence . It’s only for the bad Mexicans with criminal history. He told the illegal immigrants he’s Coming for them later so there will hide in NY and LA cities and in churches .

    1. matt13…one team who will not be drafting in the Rule 5 is the Reds….right now they are at 40….unless they DFA someone in the next 2 hours.

    1. no surprise, Elvis is a big and relatively young LHP so he can still generate interests from other teams. this also means good news for Joely (being the lone LHP in the pen) and possibly Morgan moving to the pen too. I’m sure that a bunch of these scrubs like Luis Garcia and others are DFAd and nobody’s claiming them.

  31. Last 20 years of Rule 4 Draft – total picks and pct of college players selected.
    Last three years over 70%.

    2016… 1216 –73.93%
    2015…1215 –72.67%
    2014….1215 –71.85%
    2013….1216 –68.26%
    2012….1237 –65.64%
    2011….1530 –65.16%
    2010….1522 –66.89%
    2009….1519 –66.43%
    2008…1500 –67.20%
    2007…1453 –66.76%
    2006…1502 –64.25%
    2005…1500 –63.73%
    2004…1498 –66.62%
    2003…1480 –62.84%
    2002…1481 –61.51%
    2001…1483 –56.57%
    2000…1451 –57.13%
    1999…1474 –56.78%
    1998…1446 –53.04%
    1997…1607 –51.34%

  32. I believe that there was a mixed reaction to the Pence trade, a number of you on this site were very upset, and the Inclusion of Santana as PTBNL was the most widely panned Everyone thought Singleton would be really good and the trade’s proponents loved Pence and thought Howard would block Singleton for a long time. I liked Pence and was more upset when they traded him, with all due respect to TJ. I wonder what everyone thinks in retrospect. Which was the worse deal? Pence from Houston or Pence to SF?

    1. I guess if you were getting tired of seeing Hunter holding up WS trophies and stop investing in Gillette razor devices…it would be the SF trade as the worse.
      But if TJ blossoms, then that could alter that thought.

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