Phillies Claim Bourjos, Lose Ogando

It was reported today that the Phillies claimed CF Peter Bourjos off waivers from the Saint Louis Cardinals.  Subsequently, the Phillies tried to slip RHP Nefi Ogando through waivers only to have him claimed by the Miami Marlins.

I recall that Bourjos would have been a popular acquisition among readers of this site had the Phillies acquired him a  few years ago, before they traded for Ben Revere.  He put up solid numbers in the 2011 season but saw limited at bats over the next 4 seasons.

Ogando came to the Phillies from the Boston Red Sox in August of 2013 in exchange for INF John McDonald.  He possessed a mid-90s fastball but had control problems.  He flashed a reasonable BB/9 in 2014 in the AFL and DWL, but reverted to form last season.

Steve Adams of MLBTR provides a more extensive write up of the transactions.

The Phillies 40-man roster remains at 38.

104 thoughts on “Phillies Claim Bourjos, Lose Ogando

  1. I am fine with the moves. Bourjos should provide good defense in Left as a place holder for Nick Williams the first half. I am sure the young pitchers will love having him out there.

    1. The piece I read on Pete’s signing said he is a limited OF’er because he can only play CF. I thought that was a little strange but I looked at his career stats and he has NEVER played anywhere but CF. So he’s Herrera’s backup right now

      1. Bell I think that comment never played center is silly. He is a pro center fielder should be able to play all three postion. Now right might be a problem if he doesn’t have a good arm. but I have no clue of that. so he imo is taking asche place in left. or right.

      2. I’m thinking that he can “only” play CF because his bat can’t carry him as an everyday regular at a corner position. I would be surprised that he can’t handle the position defensively.

      1. I kind of agree with you John but the one thing I might overlook is that Becerra has now the size and strength we hope Tocci develops at some point.

        1. Not sure how a Becerra-Tocci comparison is meaningful. The bottom line is that Becerra is at least a couple years away from the majors, and Tocci even more so.

          I get that everyone wants to stick it to the Mets, but I think there is almost zero chance that the Phillies will select Becerra.

  2. If a pitcher is taken in the Rule 5, do they go starter or reliever ? A lot of the arms fall into the same profile-hard thrower, questionable control and secondary pitches

      1. So its ok to spend $2million on a guy who you can just cut if hes not good? I just hate these guys who have already reached their ceiling and have no more upseide. The Bourjos, this pitcher from the Twins who throws 90…I just think that these spots should be given to guys from the org, OR, my favorite, guys who used to be top prospects but have flamed out. Every once in awhile, you can get a guy to finally reach his potential and get a diamond in the rough. We did it with Werth, Cardinals did it with Ryan Ludwick, it definitely happens. When you know your team is no good, why not look for guys like that, and not guys who are so clearly defined as to what they are and what they will ever be

        1. I think its probably not worth getting to deep with this on a 5th outfileder. Some how the Phils think this guy has value versus some of the type players you are proposing. Not being a pro baseball talent evaluater, my best guess is they are looking for someone with veteran experience who costs less then what Francour is probably asking for.

          There is also an outside chance that this guy was on one of the Phils brass top prospect list at one time.

          Speaking of top prospects that flamed out….any Dom Brown sightings?

        2. You also fail to remember the Phillies have some prospects in the pipeline that they want to bring along slowly but who will probably be up within the next 2 years.

  3. Danurda its starting to scare me too. I guess francour doesn’t come back now. and asche is most likely gone. I am confused why in a rebuild we are taking low ceiling pitchers.. When our system is loaded with them. I guess we can win 5 more games maybe. rather lose with young guys who haven’t hit there ceiling yet.

    1. Rocco the winter meetings haven’t even wrapped up yet. The time to be confused is when they break spring training and head north for CBP.

  4. I don’t think them claiming Bourjos means they do anything different than they had originally intended to do in rule V and I don’t think it means he is penciled in for anything other than a possible bench role or depth at AAA.

  5. I think Bourjos only played CF because he is outstanding defensively, but never really hit to warrant a corner OF spot if the team had another CF option. I think these signings are Matt Klentak’s attempt to “lower the floor” on the roster talent, that he mentioned at the GM meetings.

    1. LOL it’s raise the floor. Lowering the floor is what Amaro was doing for many years.

      From CSNphilly.com :

      Klentak was asked what he would consider a successful offseason to be.

      “We really want to raise the floor and add some depth,” he said. “Kind of at every turn that’s what we’re going to be focused on. And in the pitching department, I think we really need to work on just — again, I say raise the floor — but kind of establish sort of a firm foundation of pitching. That’s not going to end when we break camp at the end of spring training. That’s something we’re going to be committed to for a long time.”

    1. You are correct Wayne but it does mean they can send guys with options to AAA if needed or possibly Frenchy didn’t have an interest in coming back so he assumes that role.

      I expect Altherr to get the RF job out of ST. Herrea in CF and a platoon situation in left possibly if Asche is still here after the winter meetings. If they take a guy like Goeddel or Becerra.

      It will be interesting to see where Crawford and Williams start the season. Williams could at some point be the other half of a LF platoon towards the middle to latter part of next season.

  6. Does the fact that the roster has remained at 38 indicate that they might make 2 Rule 5 picks if the right players remain available or am I reading too much into this?

    1. I think they certainly want the flexibility to make 2 rule 5 picks but I imagine they want to see if there is anyone worthy of a roster spot still available in the 2nd round.

  7. I think the indicator that the Phillies expect to be active in the Rule 5 Draft is that they tried to slip Ogando through waivers rather than let the roster stand at 39. Whether they make 0ne or two selections remains to be seen and is a topic we can debate for a week. In past years, the Phillies have gone to ST with an open roster spot so they could pick up an interesting waiver player if the opportunity arose without having to make an immediate transaction move of their own. Whether the new management team will operate in that fashion also remains to be seen.

  8. the Phils should just waived nerris or murray over Ogando. I hope Klentak will prove me wrong like Almaraz (during the Rule 4 draft) because i somehow disagree with most of his moves (other than the Otero claim).

    1. KuKo…….exactly one week from today we will know a little more about this Phllies’ management philosophy and directional heading they want to fly by. Most posters have narrowed their Rule 5 selections to 3/4 positional guys and maybe 2/3 pitchers. When they select…I hope it is not a head scratcher, outside no one has mentioned. But then again , Odubel Herrera last year flew under everyone’s radar, even BA did not list him in their top 25 players available.

      1. with the eagles and sixers season literally over —- i’m forced to follow the Phils more closely than I should….my under the radar pick for Rule V are goeddel (TB) and heesch (CHC). hopefully, klentak will not frustrate me enough to cancel my trip to CLW in March.

        1. If a GM frustrates you enough to cancel a trip to beautiful Florida during the crappy weather we have in March, you are a child.

          1. @blanket – i grew up and live for 30 years in a tropical island surrounded by water and white sand with 12 hrs of sun throughout the year so I’m a little weird to say that I still enjoy the snow and crazy weather up in the NE area.

            But I always look forward for my trip down in FL — my post is 50% sarcasm… barring any big trades, I agree with Jim posts below to give Klentak and the Phils brass a pass until the Rule 4 and July IFA signing before pressing any judgment.

        2. Never cancel a trip to Clearwater in March!!!!!!!!!! The Phillies are always tied for first and there is nothing like Denny’s in the morning, Baseball in the afternoon, and a little beach time before the sun goes down. Gotta love Spring Training in FLA

    2. I agree that some of these moves are “head-scratchers”. But none are really “impactful” one way or the other. I’ll give Klentak a pass until we see what he does with 1:1 in the rule 4 draft. (Unless he moves a Crawford in a bade trade or signs an early 30s FA pitcher to a long contract or picks up a few more fungible right-handed relief pitchers with 90 mph fastballs, or … well you get the idea)

  9. Do you think they are going to sign another veteran SP? So far it just been the trade for Hellickson. Other than him they have no one in the mix for the other spots with a full season in MLB.

    My guess is they make at least another SP signing. Maybe a veteran SP or two signed to minor league contract with invite to ST?

    1. I lost all respect for Lee with this stunt as he did not try to rehab at all last season. This probably is a short lived comeback for him.

        1. Well there was no news of Cliff Lee coming to Philadelphia to see the team doctor in 2015-was there? Don’t expect his elbow to last a whole season though.

      1. A torn flexor elbow tendon, that has reportedly healed, and also age 38 next season….will be a tough hoe for him, he could end up back on the tractor in Arkansas next year sometime.

      2. Phil they could care less, Hard to believe he got 37 million for last year and this, and didn’t have to pitch. Unbelievable to me. I never could understand why parents today spend tons on there kids. to play hockey and baseball. thinking they are going to be stars. But now I understand even if they are a sub with these crazy owners paying this kind of money, to medicore players, if worth the shot.

        1. Very, very few H.S. sports players become even mediocre professional sports players. Unless your kid is head and shoulders above the other kids on a H.S. sports field, especially on a northern baseball diamond, the chances of him ever becoming even a cup-of-coffee major league baseball player or ever receiving more than $10K to sign a minor league contract are really slim.

  10. kenta maeda to be posted; being just 27 and no draft pick compensation involved, is there any reason we wouldnt want the phils to be in on him?

    1. Would be a nice gesture if they did. We know they won’t be good next year and we know they shouldn’t be paying $200 Mil for a pitcher right now but they can make the team interesting in ways that make sense.

      Maeda would bring a ton of excitement out to CBP at least on the nights he is starting.

      1. DMAR….maybe minimum $20M posting fee…..maybe 5@$75M contract, but the catch would certainly be at his age28 season in 2016, he will want a 3year opt-out clause after the 2018 season, similar to an opt-out clause Greinke or Tanka have with teams, so the Phillies would have him for three years basically.

        1. @romus – i’m on maeda bandwagon and I think your proposed offer is reasonable… phils can even flip him in july (or next july) if mcphail realized that they don’t have pieces to be relevant in 3 years.

          1. KuKo…..at some point, the Phillies will need to stop thinking of ‘flipping for the future’…I do not think MacPhail/Klentak will embrace long-term, the Sam Hinkie model of rebuilding.

            1. The Phillies have only been rebuilding since the end of July. They still have at least a couple years to go.

        2. All true Romus but I still think it would be a wise move. The Japanese really come out in support of their own they would flock to the parks on the night he pitches and really create some buzz.

          We all concede they are rebuilding and will struggle again next year but that doesn’t mean they have to be boring. Am I wrong?

          1. DMAR……you are not wrong.
            He would bring exciting anticipation when he pitches along with pitchers like Nola and perhaps Eickhoff.

  11. Agree with you that the Phillies should go all in to sign Kenta Maeda. McPhail had great success in signing Asian players in Baltimore.

    1. The Phillies signing Maeda would indicate they now are turning the corner and full throttle, and maybe the last of the ‘fungibles’

      1. Romus, a Matt Klentak/Andy McPhail production of “The Fall of the Fungibles” coming to Philadelphia in 2017?

  12. Maeda and Heyward would accelerate a rebuild dramatically, and both are young enough to be with the team for a long time. I don’t know that they are in on either, but either one would be a good move.

    1. Exactly Philles and 1 other team are the only ones sitting on there hands during this fa signing period. Even if they put a bid on Meade I’d be happy. We have to going on at least 1 Latin , Asia , Japan , Cuban name there plan might be next yr . Wonder who will be out there and if they fill the Phillies needs . The , kids will help the teams overall talent level . It takes a while to fill a roster with draft picks and international signings . A Meade would help that process .

  13. I just don’t understand how you sell Pelfrey and his numbers to a owner. OMG 8 million a year for him what a joke.

    1. If the Phils had signed Pelfrey, he would have been the 3rd highest paid player on the team. Howard and Harrison would be the only 2 higher paid players. Neither of those two will make much of a dent so Pelfrey could have been the 3rd wheel. The guy after him would be Ruiz at $8.5M. MAGs is 4th right now $4.7M. The top 4 guys on the salary list will probably leave no marks this year.

      I’m hoping Harrison can help out but I’m not sure with the injury he sustained that he’ll even play a game in a Phillies uniform … ever.

      1. dont forget chooch at a mere 8.5 this season; guess Hellickson right now is expected to be #4 and Miguel Gonzalez #5?

  14. If you take this rebuild as a process and not a sprint to the finish line, the moves made are reasonable. The team needs a starting catcher, 1B, 2B, SS and possibly a whole new OF. It needs a couple of solid starting pitchers. It needs relievers who can get guys out. Some of these guys are playing in the minor leagues. You can’t call up Crawford, Williams, Alfaro, Knapp, Thompson and a few other guys until they’ve gone through the minor league process. It takes time. I realize time is the only thing that Philly fans can’t stand. The waiting is painful and dull but it’s a part of the process.

    Rule 4 draft this year could have 2 impact players for the Phils. 1:1 is critical. The 1st pick in the 2nd round could also be a manor impact guy but you need to pull some money from 1:1 to get the money to go over slot on 2:1. So maybe you have to try to get a two-fer instead of a 1:1 that takes all your slot money or worse overslot. Playing with the guys you have on the roster and not trying to buy everything at once can mean another top 10 draft choice next year and another Crawford or Nola… thanks for playing.

    Rule 5 draft is a crap shot. If another Herrera is there, grab him. Anyone who can help your team a teeny tiny bit is welcome.

    Free Agency: 1st no one wants to come to Philly right now. Only guys who can get the most money and are near the end of their careers, who might get flipped to a contender at the trade deadline, would want to come and that’s after all other avenues are explored. Pick up one or two of these type guys and hope to get something back or at least make it through a 162 game season.

    The process is a couple of years anyway and it will be painful. Look at the 76’ers, high draft picks that are mostly injured or playing in Europe. It’s hard to see what you have when none of them are playing for you. The Phils aren’t there but no one can look 3 years out and say all these young guys are going to make a big impact or the right free agents will appear and push the team to the top. The process will play out and a few years down the road you can look back and say, Aha, I understand it now or that process didn’t work. 2008 didn’t look like a World Series year until all the games were played. A couple of later years looked like World Series winning years but didn’t occur.

    1. ‘The 1st pick in the 2nd round could also be a manor impact guy but you need to pull some money from 1:1 to get the money to go over slot on 2:1.’..Jason Groome, if the 1.1 pick, will need to make that decision between under-slot money or Vanderbilt. Depending on how much lower, I think he would go under-slot.

      1. The lack of a consensus number one, provided it stays that way, would work in the Phillies favor. Each of the first 5 picks in 2015 signed for underslot. The Phillies should be able to do likewise in 2016, perhaps saving $2mm or more if no consensus, then come back and get a top 15 talent at 2-1

    2. Free Agency: 1st no one wants to come to Philly right now.”

      The Price and Greinke signings should disabuse you of that thinking. Players will follow the money and Greinke will leave a contender for a doormat for the right money. These may not be good signings but the idea that free agents won’t come to Philly is not supported by any fact.

  15. I think that they will go under slot around 6.5 and roll that money into the second round…. Since slotting I don’t think 1.1 has ever gotten full slot value

    1. I’d be willing to bet the Phillies don’t sign the 1st pick for as little as 6.million. The 1st pick has close to a 9 million dollar slot. If the Phillies take a HS Pitcher (Groome) no way he takes a 2 million+ discount to sign. That would be less than the #2 pick slot.

      1. I suspect it will be even more than 9mm. It was $7,922,100 in 2014 and increased to $8,616,900 last season.

        If the lack of consensus number 1 persists, the Phils should find little resistance in saving $2mm or more with their 1-1 signing. For reference, the 15th pick has a slot equivalent of $2,692,700. They can do some real damage with that kind of savings

        1. Steve…..I cannot see a HS guy like Groome, taking more than a 10% under slot signing. Say it is $9.5M equivalent ….maybe a signing of $8.75M.
          However, a guy like Puk or Hansen , you could get them I would think for a little more under slot.

          1. GM Romus. I really can’t say in terms of Groome. I think this kind of decision varies from individual to individual though. A top 5 pick is set for life just by signing on the dotted line. That’s a difficult guarantee for anyone to pass up. That being said, I do think it stands to reason that a collegian would be more inclined to sign for underslot. But even that has a caveat. In the end, I still think that a consensus number 1 (e.g. Strasburg, Harper) will serve as more of a constraint to an underslot signing than any other factor. Through this lens, so far so good for the Phillies

            1. It doesn’t matter if there is a consensus #1. If the Phillies select a HS Pitcher, there is little to no chance he will take a 2 million dollar discount. He has all of the leverage. The Phillies could probably get that from the college players, but they aren’t going to get that from a consensus #1 HS player.
              Groome may promise to take a slight discount (#2 slot+) in order to get the honor of being #1, but to think a HS pitcher would take any more of a discount is naive.

            2. @VOR,

              It’s not really naive to think he’d take under slot. For one, there’s no way to increase his draft standing if he’s already number one. But also, there’s twice the gamble for a pitcher drafted high out of high school to not sign. You need to worry about injury (which is common among college pitchers) AND the possibility of the next draft being stronger. All it would take to lose more than that $2m discount is 2 players in the next draft being perceived as better/more valuable. And if he drops out of the first round next time through, whether because of injury, performance, or emergence of a stronger draft, he would lose $4m+. Is that a gamble you would take?

              Now I’m not saying he’ll take a $2m reduction, but it’s certainly possible. I’d expect more around the $1m range, but their leverage is actually considerable. Plus it’s not like the Phils would be completely up a creek if they didn’t sign their first pick. It’d sting for sure… but only for this year. If that were to happen, they could potentially have the first two picks next year, in a draft that may (or may not, who knows) be stronger, and thus have a ridiculous pool to sign talent with.

            3. No, Groome doesn’t have all the leverage, because the Phillies don’t need to draft him. If he doesn’t agree to reasonable $, then they can quite happily draft and sign Puk.

            4. I would think that a HS guy would be more likely to sign under slot then a college Jr. A college Jr can go back to school for a year before going back into he draft the following year. A HA kid has to wait until they are a jr in college before being draft eligible again (unless going the Juco way). Oh and come draft time Groome will be the consensus number 1 pick.

  16. Vor – you somehow missed the critical part of my post which was based on there not being a consensus. That’s an odd response – and then the naivete kicker in the end

  17. Just for reference, this year, Dansby Swanson signed for $6,500,000 which was under slot by $2.1M. In 2014, Brady Aiken was reported to have signed for the same $6,500,000 when the slot value was only $7,922,100, a ‘savings’ of $1.4M.

    Not only is a $2M under slot savings in 2016 a possibility (provided there is no clear consensus), there’s precedent as recently as 5 months ago.

    1. Steve…so if the 1.1 slot amt is raised to $9.4M, then you can envision Groome signing for $7.5M or less, and perhaps less for a collegiate like a Puk or Hansen?
      If so, then the 2.1 can really be looking at a substantial signing bonus if the Phillies select someone of pedigree.

    2. There isn’t any precedents for a HS player taking that kind of discount. Dansby Swanson was a college player. I doubt you’ll find any HS player picked in the top 10 in the last 5 years, that accepted aa nearly 25% discount on his draft slot. You are suggesting this is reasonable and there is no precedent for this.

      1. Funny how bough the slot value for 1-1 increased from 2014-2015, each of the 1-1 selections ‘signed’ for the same $6,5M. All I am contending is that this trend may continue in a scenario where there is no consensus number one, and if the slot value for 1-1 increases into the low $9M range, which it will, it is hardly unreasonable that the Phillies can save $2M or more on 2016’s 1-1

      2. The precedent is Carlos Correa, the only high school 1.1 signed under the current CBA. The Astros’ 1.1 pick for 2012 had a $7.2m slot value and they signed him for $4.8m, which is a discount of 33%.

        1. You are correct, but if you remember, the Astros got that discount on Correa because he wasn’t considered a top 2 prospect at the time. Buxton was the top prospect and wouldn’t give the discount. Correa got as much as he could have expected at #3 or #4, where he was projected, so he didn’t lose anything. Correa took the discount because he (and everybody else) expected him to be drafted #4. If you apply that situation to the present, then the Phillies would have to pass on Groome and select Rutherford, because Rutherford would still be getting more than #3 money.

          1. Every 1-1 under the current sit system has signed under slot. Aiken was to have agreed to sign for nearly 20% under slot and he was a high schooler. And our section isn’t locked into Groome, which is precisely the point that you so clumsily missed

          2. LOL. Vor -you should revisit this thread. You arguments are consistent with the very argument you sided against earlier

            1. Lol. If the Phillies select the projected #1 HS player and he takes a 25% discount on the #1 slot (which takes him well under #2 slot money) I’ll revisit this thread.

            2. Vor – you must be thick. Not once did I contend that Groome or any high schooler would be taken number 1, only that there may not be a consensus and the less of a consensus the more it benefits the Phillies. Period. Stop. End of story. Reading is fun

  18. Steve….so going by what you suggested may happen, if the 1.1 does sign for a discount…say conservatively 15/20%, based on last year’s slot monies…the 2.1 could actually be in line for a $3M signing bonus.
    1– 1 Ariz—– $8.61M
    43- 2 Ariz——$1.46M

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