Open Discussion–Trade Deadline Edition

With the deadline in 72 hours and almost 250 comments already in this weeks Open Discussion post, this is somewhere to start fresh in discussing the latest news.

The latest news is that Cole Hamels start has been moved from Thursday to Friday (Post Deadline), a “no brainer” move that assures his value is at its peak and there is no threat of injury.  The Rangers, Cubs, Astros, Giants, Yankees and Red Sox continue to be mentioned as potential trade partners.

Strong rumors have Jonathan Papelbon moving to the Nationals.  As of 430 this afternoon, Papelbon has yet to appear in the Phillies clubhouse, which could be for a variety of reasons with the most likely being a trade is imminent.

126 thoughts on “Open Discussion–Trade Deadline Edition

    1. I’d be shocked if Papelbon wasn’t the closer over Storen. Papelbon has a better resume and has been just as effective.

      1. wasn’t it Gary Templeton who said “if i aint starting, i aint departing?”. If Paps ain’t closing, he aint moving.

  1. Excited to see the potential Papelbon return. The Nationals have some interesting names after you get passed some of their top tier guys.

    I don’t understand the narrative going around now about Storen not being happy about being demoted and only willing to accept it if it meant acquiring Kimbrell or Chapman. 1. pap is one of the greatest closers of all time and a proven post season performer. 2. Storen has blown big games in the Nationals two trips to the post season. 3. It makes the team better.

    1. he’s a catcher…saw that name on their prospect list and was interested for the name alone.

  2. Mlbtraderumors reports that neither neither Matt den Dekker nor Emmanuel Burris are in the lineup for the Nats tonight. That can’t be the return for Paps, can it?

    1. Maybe part of it……but didn’t Amaro and Gillick already said they wanted ‘major-ready’ prospects….so assuming that means AA/AAA level prospects.

    2. UPDATE, 4:30 p.m.: A trade that would bring Jonathan Papelbon from the Phillies to the Nationals is nearing completion, a person familiar with the situation tells the Washington Post’s Barry Svrluga. There are several moving parts in the complicated deal.

      1. Hamels is now not starting Thursday, so looks like he may be a goner too.
        But that was to be expected. Friday he could be pitching in a different uni.

      2. I don’t understand why the Phillies aren’t telling teams we’ll pay the $13 million next year, give us a top 5 guy.

          1. I would think he’d have been moved by now. Most reports have been the option year as being a major hurdle in trades.

  3. Burris is 30, and dan Dekker is 27. Good lord, I hope that’s not the return.

    Kieboom is a lower-lever catching prospect. The Nats have a handful of okay-to-good C prospects, and RAJ likes and needs C prospects, so I wouldn’t be surprised if Kieboom comes to us.

    1. Its a complicated deal according to reports.
      Paps makes things complicated in all respects!

  4. Hamels not starting on Thursday will start on Friday. Mlbtraderumors had 2 names then retracted them for the pap deal.

  5. I’d be happy with an Austin Voth and maybe a lower level guy. Would add a power arm to the Reading rotation to pair with Eflin and Lively.

  6. Some non-trade good news….MattWinks reports Jes Valentin activated and assigned to crosscutters.

    1. Voth pounds the zone with his whole three-pitch arsenal. He relies on his fastball, which typically sits around 90-91 mph, but can climb up to 95. His slider and changeup give him two more Major League-average offerings. As a result of his above-average control, his stuff plays up and he is able to pile up strikeouts.

    1. He is In high-A, will be in Reading next season I assume.
      Appears to be another body-type like Cam Rupp.

  7. maybe a couple mil for rest of this season and 4 to 5 next to make him an 8 or 9 million dollar closer… at this point, the $ doesnt really matter from phils perspective

    1. MLB states:
      “His fastball typically sits in the low-90s, occasionally reaching 96 mph. His secondary stuff is still inconsistent, but he has the makings of a solid curveball and changeup. He’s still learning to consistently repeat his delivery, but at his best he fills up the strike zone with all his pitches”.

    2. Pap would take $11m guaranteed for ’16 as opposed to $13 m vesting being reported.

      I have to say Pivetta is a work-in-process. WHIP 1.86 in AA. Sounds like a lottery ticket. He’s 22 years old.

      1. 15 IP in AA.
        Not much to go on.
        Probably will start at AA level again ,Reading, next season.

  8. Not a bad return. Good upside arm to add to the system.

    I’m excited to see Giles take over the role. No reason to keep Pap here especially if he would have become a distraction. Win win for both parties involved.

    1. Well we didn’t pay a dime of any of the money Paps was owed so it’s a good deal for the Phils.

      1. I’d rather we’d have paid more money, and received better or more prospects. The Phils are one of the best capitalized teams in the league–they can afford to “buy” prospects, if you will.

        1. maybe its splitting hairs but would rather have a guy like Voth who has been consistent and the and we dont have to count on coaches to fix in the minor league system- wonder if the Phils had a choice between the 2.

          anyway, hope they reward Loewen with a promotion to fill the spot in the pen.

          1. Pivetta is a year younger and 4 inches taller….and throws with a downward plane it appears.

            1. im sure im going to be calling the kid Dick Bavetta instead of Nic Pivetta..

              i get that Pivetta has a slightly higher upside, but maybe by a small margin- but I like Voth’s floor more – so consistent since he was drafted- and not confident in the phillies ability to help him reach his upside, thats all.

        2. Maybe Washington only wanted to give up one prospect in the deal-we don’t know how the negotiations went.

    1. Good report…hope he has a better ending then the other Canadian pitcher we received in a trade.

      1. Was thinking same thing. Maybe even more parallels. Pivetta is quite large like Aumont as well and both have mechanical issues. Of course Pivetta doesn’t have the stuff that Aumont has though

  9. Pivetta # 10 on BA mid-season rankings for Nats, and Pap restructured his deal for next year, taking less $ to leave Philly, but guaranteed the year and that he will close. I don’t know enough about Pivetta, but has to be a good move. It was beyond time, and I am a Paplebon fan.

  10. Houston and Texas were supposed to be frontrunners for Cole, but Dodgers making last minute push, and “want to exhaust all Hamels scenarios before they move on to Plan B, which looks like Gallardo. We have debated this for a year. If Urias and Seager do not come here, what do Dodgers have to give to make us happy with the trade?

    1. Perhaps Puig, and other untouchable prospects….MLB Network talked about this this afternoon.

      1. Yeah it’d have to be Puig and their top guy not included in the few untouchables they mentioned and then another upsidey lower level piece. That’s assuming the Phillies want Puig at all.

        1. I mentioned last week….if it is Puig…I would move him to the Yankees, if Cashman bites and is interested, and try to get back Judge plus another pitching prospect or two.

    2. Rumors have Dodgers close to finalizing a deal with the Marlins for Latos.

      Hamels and Francoeur for Puig, Jose De Leon and Austin Barnes.

      Or

      Hamels for De Leon, OF Scott Schebler, Barnes and Alex Guerrero (with ‘free agency if traded’ clause removed).

  11. That is the point, I think. I really do not have interest in Puig. I know he is still young, but Greinke absolutely hates him, and his numbers have really dropped. yes, they can offer to take no $ back, but I don’t care about that. I would rather they pay some of the salary and get a better return, like McCullers and Phillips from the Astros.

  12. I would take Puig in a minute. He slots into the 4 spot and instantly makes the top 3 spots better, jump starts the rebuild, and moves the team ahead by a year or two.

    With his const-controlled contract he could make things much easier.

    1. This. Puig is a classic buy low. If the Dodgers are dumb enough to give him up, the Phillies would be foolish not to take him over any of the other rumored offers.

      1. If the dodgers are willing to give him up that should tell you all you need to know about what an awful person that guy is.

  13. I don’t think the Dodgers acquiring Latos effects them going after Hamels. They could still look to bolster their rotation with an ace but maybe use Latos as leverage since they don’t need one as badly now.

  14. Stark said on 97.5 that the Phillies could come away with at least Alfaro and Chi Chi Gonzalez.

    1. I think with the complications and bartering that is going on….the Phillies may also get a choice of a PTBNL as a portion of the return package.
      Who knows!

  15. Why is nobody talking about A.J. Reed of the Astros as someone the Phils should get for Hamels? Reed, Domingo Santana, Vincent Velasquez and Tony Kemp and for Hamels.

  16. Deal’s reaching the finish line. Hamels will be pitching for Texas.

    I’ve been advocating his trade but man it’s starting to sink in. Hope he can get a ring and some run support in Texas.

    1. I like what I’ve read on Twitter about this trade. Think it’s the best possible package the Phillies couldve gotten.

  17. Can’t understand why Alfaro is even in the discussion. Who would want a catcher coming off ankle surgery?

    1. Depends on the medicals. The Brewers just traded for a guy coming off Tommy John.

      It’s like Chip Kelly said when we acquired Bradford: injuries make these guys available, you couldn’t acquire them otherwise.

  18. MLB Daily Dish ‏@mlbdailydish 2m2 minutes ago
    Reported Cole Hamels trade: Rangers send Nick Williams, Jerad Eickhoff, Jorge Alfaro, and one more player for Hamels, Jake Diekman, and $$$.

  19. Harrison’s in the deal as well reportedly. I guess he’s the guy who picks up Hamels’ innings. Probably off sets the money owed to Hamels.

    I think he could have some upside to him. He was a very good pitcher when he was healthy. Maybe a move from the AL to the NL turns this guy back into a decent mid rotation starter.

  20. I wasn’t super keen on the return – yes, even me – until I heard Williams’ name included. If it goes down as reported, it’s about what I expected and worth doing. Waiting almost certainly would not have gotten us a better deal, might have gotten us a worse deal, and would carry downside risks (primarily injury).

    Really would have been nice to get mazara, not that that was ever likely. And Gallo, of course, was always a pipe dream.

  21. OTOH now it looks like Alfaro is NOT part of the deal. Which is disappointing. He’s underwhelming as the headliner, but a nice second piece. Guess we just need to wait and see.

  22. Evan Grant reporting final deal as:
    Matt Harrison, Alec Asher, Jerad Eickhoff, Nick Williams, Jorge Alfaro & Jake Thompson for Hamels+Diekman+Cash.
    Thought it was terrible, but when Jake Thompson was added, it made more sense.

    1. My thought process exactly. Nick Williams was an enticing option, but no headliner for Hamels. It basically seemed like we we just taking all their second tier prospects instead of a first tier.

      But Thompson+Williams+Alfaro is a good get. Eickhoff is an interesting lottery ticket, and Asher has a solid floor. Harrison… is a warm body for our rotation, I guess. I don’t really get that. I wonder if he was thrown in with Thompson in lieu of Chi Chi? Maybe the Phils view him as a bounce back candidate we can trade at the deadline next year.

        1. That catcher is hurt. We already had a catcher with upside with injury history, remember? I’m not saying he’s a bad player, but he’s no top 20 in baseball prospect. That combined with being injured for this year means he is not a headliner in a trade for a player of Hamels’ caliber.

          And Nick Williams is a nice prospect, but he’s not Mazara. Fact is, without Thompson this trade would have looked like a huge cave on Amaro’s part. I’m not against the strategy of getting a bunch of riskier prospects and hoping to hit on one, but we needed at least one player with polish AND upside. That’s Thompson. Pretty close to being a 3/4, and has room to be a 2.

    1. How is depth now ridiculous? three decent prospects and three garbage pitchers. Alfaro won’t be able to stick at catcher apparently and Williams and Thompson are overrated. And Phils are taking on 42mil(?) left on Harrsion’s deal and sending cash to Rangers?

      Someone please explain to me how Harrison got that contract and what happened to him? At least value is close to when we traded for cliff lee.

      1. Don’t understand why you don’t like this deal as we get their #3-5 top prospects which are better than our prospects, a possible rebound pitcher and some pitching potential for a great pitcher who restricted our trading ability.

  23. And Alfaro is in the deal … and Thompson … three of their top prospects, a reclamation project, and a couple lesser prospects. I’ll take it.

    In fact, though some of you guys will still complain about the deal, more than I thought they would get.

  24. Interesting to think about the top ten now. All three new guys slot in there, Who do they knock out? Nola graduating soon will open a spot.

    It’s the best top 10 that the organization has had in years – even with (finally) some promising young talent in the majors. Looking up.

  25. I won’t say I called this perfectly (the return was on the high end of what I thought likely, but not outside the bounds of what I thought was possible), but I called this aspect of pretty well:

    (1) The Phillies would end up getting a nice return;
    (2) The fans would still scream bloody murder.

    In fairness, the gang around here mostly realizes that the deal is a good one. But boy howdy, looking over at the comments on MLBTradeRumors (and I’m sure other places) doesn’t exactly give one much faith in the intelligence of Phillies’ fans.

    1. That’s why this site is very refreshing as the posters are very reasonable and civil to each other most of the time.

  26. Pirates Designate Vance Worley, shouldn’t the phils be interested? Can’t be worse then Williams. Always liked Worley when he was here.

    1. MacPhail is getting RAJ’s extension paperwork written up now, making sure all the
      ‘i’s are dotted and the ‘t’s’ are crossed!.

      1. You have to give RAJ credit. Less than a year ago this was a farm system in the mid-20’s. Now they are top 10.

        Everything falls on the plate of the coaches in the minors to get these guys to live up to their potential.

      2. Nice he and probably Gillick to a larger extent are feeling quite liberated to make the right moves for the future. The shackles are off finally.

  27. I’m curious to see what they got for Revere – from watching Amaro’s Hamels press conference it sounded like they were looking for pure talent in the Revere deal – not as concerned about how major league ready the player(s) was(were).

    That said, let me do a mini-salute to Ben Revere. He was far, far better than his critics (and, at times, I was among those critics) gave him credit for. He was the Phillies’ best position player this year – by quite some distance above his rivals (with the possible exception of Franco). People focused on the certain things Revere could not do, rather than the things he did well. But he did some things very well. Also, what he could control (fielding, throwing), he worked hard on to improve. Before the year, I noted that Revere was an above average, but limited, offensive player and that the difference in how valuable he could be would be whether he could become an average to above average (or better) defensive player. To his credit, Revere appeared to work very hard on his defense – he really improved. Among the improvements was a staggering improvement in his throwing – I don’t think I’ve ever seen a position player improve his throwing the way Revere did.

    Yes, he was a limited player. Yes, he had no power. Yes, he could drive you absolutely crazy (like he did when, TWICE, he got himself out for overrunning a base and not tagging the base on the way back). And, yes, he needs to go to open room for the next round of outfielders, including Herrera, Altherr and, God willing, Quinn. But Ben Revere was a pretty darned good little player, had great energy and a great attitude, was worth more than what they traded to get him. Good luck Ben, it was fun watching you play.

    1. If they get one of two pitchers in a return package, or even both…Foley or Conner Greene…they would have done well.

  28. Yep 300 hitters that steal 40 plus bases don’t grow on trees. Plus now we have 1 CF other then Cesar Herandez.

    1. I’m not a scout, so i don’t know if Aaron Altherr is ready for a promotion, but it would sure be nice to see him sometime relatively soon for a little tryout. I imagine that Odubel is going to get a lot of reps and Altherr is promoted, at the latest, when the rosters expand.

      1. I would like to see Altherr get called up with LHV’s season is done and then give him some starts to end the year.

        I want to see more AB’s at the AAA level just to confirm the breakout. One month will not hurt him at all.

        1. IMO, Altherr needs no further development in the minors….he is over 2700 PAs in the minor leagues….that is plenty enough developmental opportunity.

          1. couldn’t agree more Romus a few years ago I didn’t think it was going to click for him but I think it has at least to the point where his floor is a John Mayberry Jr. and that’s a very useful guy to have on your club.

      2. Altherr does give you flexibility thru-out the OF rotation. His skill set plays out in all three positions, so that is a plus.

  29. Catch, you are absolutely right. We have ample reason to knock the management of this team, but Revere turned out to be a nice acquisition. A legit .300 hitter, who worked hard and made himself a better defensive player. He wasn’t the defensive CF I had hoped for, but a very nice Major League player and a good guy. No knock on Ben, it was just time to try Altherr, and then, hopefully, Quinn.

    1. From what I recall, the Revere trade was almost single-handedly orchestrated by Pat Gillick who badgered the Twins until they finally relented and did the deal.

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