2011 Reader Top 30: Runoff for #14/15

2011 Reader Top 30

Alrighty, the voting for #14 is extremely close, 4 votes out of 540 total, so we’re going to do a run-off. Choose between either Phillippe Aumont or Aaron Altherr for #14. The runner up is #15, and then we move on to #16.

72 thoughts on “2011 Reader Top 30: Runoff for #14/15”

  5. Aumont for me too. I’ve seen too many high ceiling outfielders that haven’t panned out, so I tend to look at them a bit more skeptically

    – Jeff

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  6. I am one of the swing voters who voted for neither Altherr nor Aumont for #14. For me, who ranked Aumont #2 overall for the Phillies last season, the choice is clear: ALTHERR. Altherr seems to have universal acclaim as a top multiple tool prospect (eg, Baseball America and John Sickles) and his 2010 season was a good one. I’ve fallen hard off the Aumont bandwagon after his 80 walks, 12 hit batters and 17 wild pitches in 2010. He doesn’t even have very high strike out totals with a minor league career K/9 : BB/9 of 8.8 : 4.8. When I think of Aumont I think of Edgar Garcia, who also hit a wall at AA and of a long list of hard throwing pitchers who could not control their pitches.

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  7. LOL!

    I voted for Altherr yesterday, but changed my mind and voted for Aumont today. It seems most people did the opposite!

    To me, the biggest limiting factors on Aumont are that he could end up as a relief pitcher or just go nowhere. But damn, if he puts it together, he could be nasty – really nasty. There’s just no telling if that will happen and, if it does, when it will occur. It could happen when he’s 27 or 28. Who knows?

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  8. Aumont is slowly building in my mind to where I think he’s only behind Pettibone at this point for remaining pitching prospects and he may be ahead of all the other hitting prospects as well, with Garcia and Hernandez and Rizzotti in the mix. Since he and Altherr are gone, my next five are Pettibone – Garcia – Rizzotti – Hernandez – Hyatt. Maybe not in that order. Need to read up a little more on Garcia in the next couple days.

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  9. I think Aumont is in for a big bounce-back year.

    They spent last year tinkering with his mechanics. He’s still young and has stuff. Hopefully the adjustments work and he regains command.

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  12. Altherr but you do realize Aumont was the 11th overall pick in 07? Jason Heyward was 14 Savery was 19 and Porcello was 27th.

    I did not up until a few days ago…

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  16. Despite his struggles, Aumont is still the better prospect, so I voted for him. However, in my own mind, neither of these guys would be rated this high. I’d put both of them in after position 20.

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  17. 141-140. Good fight. Two knockdowns a piece and Altherr wins the 15th round to take it.

    Oh wait, now it’s 147-146. That’s a sixteen round fight with 11 knockdowns. Even better.

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  18. I went with Aumont who still has #2/#3 starter type stuff even though he has major command and durability issues. Altherr is just further away and does not have a large sample size of professional at bats. Lakewood will be an interesting test for him.

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  22. I vote Aumont here, simply don’t believe the only throws 81m.p.h. stuff, and there has never been any official word on moving to strictly a relief pitcher, only internet fodder. Before the acquisition the reports from AFL had him doing well and hitting 96 m.p.h.. Last season he seemed to do better the farther away he got from the Philly day trip region, so it could be he was just upset by hecklers, and you know who you are.
    Philosophically, I don’t like the policy of awarding 2 spots in the poll simply because of a close vote. Just because the vote is evenly split that does not mean the 2nd place finisher was the 2nd choice of those who voted. And others may not think the 2nd place finisher is worthy of that high a placing. It is like what you see from the political media in the Democratic and Republican primaries, in election years. Just because Fred Harris drops out of the race doesn’t mean you can assign all of his voters to Stuart Udall, if you know what I mean.

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  23. altherr. voted aumont yesterday.. comments swayed me to like altherr better,, if aumont is truly going to the pen (as someone said) then he should be in the 20s. cant rank a A-AA closer (who hasnt even proven himself yet) this high

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  24. Altherr is the better prospect at this time, although I am still intrigued by Aumont’s talent. I actually like Aumont more than DeFratus, because Aumont’s curve is an out pitch and I have not heard DeFratus’ secondary stuff described above average. Still, Aumont has to show more, especially since they are making him a reliever, before I can rank him higher than Altherr, or even JC Ramirez for that matter.
    Not sure why some rank Altherr so low. He has the tools, he performed well. Scouts like him. BA likes him. At 14, I don’t think that is too high to consider a “toolsy” prospect, even for guys who are inclined to downgrade that type of prospect.

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  26. DeFratus=low-mid 90s FB plus slider he tries to pattern after Lidge, according to Philly.com today. BA says he has best control in the system, (that best ranking that gave us Aumont’s best curveball in the system ranking).

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  27. @b DC. Never read that DeFratus has a plus slider. BA described it as average last year. Control is great if you are determining his floor is at least a major leaguer. Plus pitches make closers. Aumont has two. DeFratus, arguably has one.

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  29. Just Voted Altherr… 193 Altherr 192 Aumont.

    Took Aaron becuase that’s my name lol… but no seriously, I think he’s got a higher upside and in light of the news of Aumont going to the bullpen I just couldn’t vote for him.

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  30. I voted Altherr again. Both are a good choice at #14 and both are big projections for different reasons. I’m still unconvinced Aumont was healthy last season and he needs to make a big comeback. Altherr is young and has the skills but needs to put up better stats. I don’t know where the 81 mph FB for Aumont rumor came from. He was around 88-90 when he left Reading. His results were better at CLW, so doubt he lost velocity. His motion was just totally out of whack when he left Reading.

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  31. Can anyone post a link to any official source stating that Aumont going the the bullpen? I keep seeing this statement repeated over and over again without any evidence that its true and I didn’t find anything when doing a search on the subject.

    Amazing how easy it is to spread speculation as fact.

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  32. I’m very happy that I never have to vote for Aumont. I don’t think anyone disappointed as much as he did last year. Of course, if he can return to his previous performance then thats fantastic and he could rocket up the charts for next season, and through the minors.

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  33. I’m sure I read the bullpen thing as a quote but I cannot remember where. Not trying spread rumor, just telling you what I remember.

    The article on philly.com today about DeFratus is interesting. KG said his stuff played crazy up out of the bullpen, so let’s not totally dismiss the potential that he has plus offerings.

    The other interesting thing from the article were the invitees to the Phillies prospect development seminar: DeFratus, Rizzotti, Schwimer (easy subject for a post, Schwim!), Stutes, Garcia and…wait for it…Chris Kissock! Chris Kissock? Naylor is in Australia, so he couldn’t make it, I guess.

    BTW, it makes sense for the loser of this run-off to get the next spot in line because these two were head and shoulders ahead of the rest of the pack for this spot. If there had been a third anywhere close, I’m sure PP would have included said third person and then reopened the next spot as opposed to granting all three the next three spots.

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  34. i totally didnt get marfis’ point on not awarding 14 and 15…it s not like the runoff is between the highest and 3rd highest..i actually dont like the runoffs…a win is a win is a win…wether its by one vote or 4…but the comments are a chance to sway votes…and regarding the rumors of aumont throwing in the 80s…i believe this is because of careless posters who write things as if they are set in stone…like yesterday someone wrote something like the phillies said they aare moving aumont to the bullpen with, no supporting link…thats irresponsible…just like news reporters these days…everybody wants to be first with information no matter if its credible or not!…still aumont here

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  35. I saw Altherr play twice last season, and he just looks like a natural out there. Good approach and swing at the plate, and really smooth in the outfield. Aumont took a step back for me, hence why I have a bunch of prospects rated over him still.

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  36. Sorry Mike77 – plus meaning he throws a slider in addition to the FB. Should watch my use of the word “plus” on here. I agree with you on DeF. He’s shown stats, and I think it was Lamar who stated he thought he had good makeup for the bullpen, but don’t quote me on that. Aside from that, I wouldn’t make any assumptions.

    On Aumont, I can’t recall anyone official ever being quoted saying Aumont is being moved back to the bullpen. Doesn’t mean he doesn’t have closer/bullpen stuff and project there, and probably that’s where the assumptions start taking hold. Like the assumption that any AL team would want Rizzotti as a DH. Since when does anyone use untested rookies as DH? It’s a spot for vets and/or proven power hitters, predominantly, yet a half dozen times in the last couple weeks I’ve seen someone, here or elsewhere, reference that he could be a good trade chip to an AL team as a DH.

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  37. Yes, the Phils did say that Aumont was going to the bullpen this year. I went with Altherr who has starting CF potential.

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  40. murray if you were the one who said it and if you turn out to be right ill be the first to say good job…but i was using that as an example…there are many cases like this…when we say the phils say do we mean amaro, lamar the phanatic? ..this is directed to all the posters who quote “the phils”…!?!?

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  41. I get the point about not awarding the #15 spot, automatically to the loser of the run off. I had the same though last year regarding Freddie Galvis. Because both top vote getters. Only received 25% of the vote yesterday, that means 75% of the voters could theoretically vote for the 3rd place guy in the next round. I think that would be a distinct possibility. Half the voters didn’t like either one of these guys.

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  42. Voted Pettibone originally, as I have him as slightly higher than either one of these two. I have Altherr 14 and Aumont 17, so Altherr gets my run-off vote. Pettibone will again get my next vote. I’m surprised at how little support he is getting.

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  43. In a vote like this a player can win with a plurality of the vote anyway. Nine candidates, a player can win that with as little as 15%. If it were a formal list I’d sweat it but its not. Its really just a fun exercise/discussion.

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  44. I just looked for “Phillippe Aumont Chuck Lamar” and “Phillippe Aumont Benny Looper” and found no reference to this on two pages of the google links. The Phils made him a starter at the beginning of last year, and I just read that Seattle had previously said that Aumont was a possiblity to join their pen during the stretch in 09, (which obviously didn’t happen). Does that mean they saw him as a reliever in general? Maybe not. Just they were thinking about using him and the fastball and the curve in their pen in 09 and so they had him working there for part of that year. The Phils made Aumont stop throwing the split, (which was mention in Salisbury’s article about Sutter if you care to find it), which would make the change the only option I have seen as a third pitch. Hopefully the minor league pitching coaches can get him in a rhythm this season. He needs it after his last two years. Starter –> Reliever in Seattle, (probably too early to get him sufficient innings to hone his skills). Reliever –> Starter in Philly. Too Quick a promotion to AA (admits Lamar). Changed his arm angle. Made him stop using one of his pitches. Also they made him lose 65 pounds and get three inches shorter, and the girl they arranged for him to marry? I hear she hates sports, and Canada. Harsh.

    Anyone who wants to know where I got this stuff can do the google searches I mentioned above. Except part about his height and weight. I made that up.

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  45. For the purposes of a list I think the runoff makes sense. The people who did not prefer either candidate is this spot have a chance to vote on the better of the two if they want.

    Based on BA and others ranking of Altherr I had him higher before the Top30 started. Then I reviewed his stats and was not impressed enough to rank him very high. He did not have a huge pedigree out of high school so that lowers his status in my opinion. He is still very young and has done well is his limited opportunities so there is not much information to evaluate.

    I know Aumont has quality stuff against high level competition internationally (small sample size alert). His consistency is terrible and he may never put it all together. However, the very young guys on this list with great tools do not have the demonstration against international competition so that is why I have Aumont above them.

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  47. Matt Forman: Lots of questions about the prospects the Phillies received in return for Cliff Lee, and I’ll touch on each of the players. As for your question, Kevin… One of the more interesting nuggets I came across when talking to Phillies front office folks for the list was that Aumont officially is entering 2011 as a reliever. As one executive said, there will be no more jockeying back and forth between the rotation and the bullpen. It was intriguing that he pitched for Team Canada in September as a starter, but the Phillies are committed to developing him in a relief role. The nicest way to put it is that Aumont went through growing pains mentally and physically in 2010: He was expected to be a starting pitcher at Double-A, which he wasn’t ready for. The positive to take away from it all? He pitched a ton of innings and the Phillies still think his 90-94 mph sinker alone will get him to the big leagues.

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  48. I’m curious as to what everyone’s opinion of Aumont would be if we had originally drafted him and he wasn’t acquired at the expense of Cliff Lee.

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  49. Yeah I don’t agree the loser be automatically granted 15 even if my guy loses. Each spot should be earned with a new round of voting.

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  50. Altherr here.

    That plays for me until Aumont brings things together. His ’10 season was a disaster…for which he gets little credit from me. Until he brings things together and actually puts up some good numbers, he’ll remain a dream unfulfilled for me.

    Meanwhile Altherr DID put up good numbers (“the proof is in the pudding’s actual taste) in ’10. So voting for Aumont is voting for his sports-news articles. I’d rather vote for performance than puff-prints.

    Altherr here; waiting for Aumont to live up to his press clippings, Altherr made his own press clippings with his ’10 stats.

    Would love for Aumont to become the mound beast some see in him; until then a dream unfulfilled.

    Altherr!

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  51. Last RAJ talked about it Aumonte would start the 2011 season aas a starter. I doubt that changed, but have no evidence either way.

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  53. just wanted to say that the phillies are having a camp thursday jan 13th-17th for players in clearwater. i have a friend that plays for the phillies minor leagues and will be going to this camp. he didn’t tell me who’s going or how many guys will be there but that he will be throwing a bullpen and working out in clearwater.

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  56. The story of the World Baseball Classic is commonly told when discussing Aumont. Here he showed a flash of what some hope he becomes when he worked his way out of a jam by getting David Wright, Kevin Youkilis and Curtis Granderson. Well, one of the fellows who got him into this jam is our very own Jimmy Rollins.

    I hope the reacquisition of Cliff Lee quiets the negative buzz around Aumont and the other young guys brought in from Seattle. There has been a lot of pressure on them to compensate for the loss of Cliff Lee and little tolerance for the struggles they have had. For instance, Jim Salisbury wrote an article complaining that they had not been included in Baseball America’s top ten list.They no longer have to deal with those expectations now that Lee is back. Hopefully the talent they do have can turn into good results in 2011.

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  57. I think it’s time to put them both at 14.5 and move on to 16. Seriously, though, I don’t think either one of them is more than a borderline 20ish. But whatever. This is group think.

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  58. Thanks Bob M in LA, that’s definitely what I read but I couldn’t recall where I saw it. Interestingly, releasing Sanchez and keeping Aumont in the bullpen might give Matt Way, if healthy, a chance to join the Reading rotation. It seems awfully early for a camp to take place in C Water. I’d be curious to hear who was invited to it in terms of what level of players. Phillies Phantasy Camp starts 1/19 so the other thing will be wrapped up before then although players are usually there working out during that time.

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  59. That’s dissappointing if they intend to keep Aumonte in the Pen. Could they just want him to ramp up slowly to build his confidence or is the move most likely permanent?

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  61. We may need to have a recount due to “hanging chads”. Interesting that Ramirez does not seem to suffer from the LEEitis. At least he does not get the same level of venom. Did not get to see him personally at Reading as I did Aumont and Gillies who were both way overmatched. Youth is on their side so lets hope all three step up this year.

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  63. Hyatt next. Shouldn’t ignore excellent numbers ibn high A just 1 1/2 yrs into pro career.

    Thus, following Altherr and Aumont, Hyatt.

    Then Pettibone?

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  64. I’m thinking Hyatt after this too but I could almost see Zeid as well. He had a good year in Lakewood. He was unhittable in the playoffs. He had a good AFL season. I expect the double jump to Reading. He could be a Madson type. As a reliever he throws 97 mph.

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  65. Pettibone is way down the list for me. His K/9 was the worst on the entire Lakewood team. I think his success is partially due to the excellent Lakewood defense.

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  66. Next few votes: JC Ramirez, Cesar Hernandez, Harold Garcia and Dugan.
    May change my mind if Castro or Alvarez gets on ballot.

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  72. Altherr. And I don’t care if it’s close. Aumont going to the bullpen cinches it. How can a reliever in AA who has never had success at that level be ahead of Schwimer, much less Altherr?

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