Werth signs with Nationals, Phillies receive draft picks

As you’ve heard, Jayson Werth has signed an eleventy billion year deal for three trillion dollars with the Nationals. The Nats first round pick, #6, is protected, as the top 15 draft picks are every year, so the Phillies will receive the Nats 2nd round pick. Werth was the highest rated available free agent this winter, so the Phillies will receive the first compensation pick of the sandwich round, which this year will be pick #34. So the Phillies will pick #30 and then #34. The 2nd round pick is tougher to determine because a number of compensation picks will be doled out this winter.

165 thoughts on “Werth signs with Nationals, Phillies receive draft picks

  1. what sense does it make to sign him for all that money and seven years. with strasburg out for next year and most likely limited the next , harper at least two or three years away, in three years werth could be starting to decline. the nationals arent near ready to contend for the title yet.

  2. jason enjoy that 2008 ring and the sub 500 teams for the rest of your career. Congrats on getting your payday. time for RAJ to get to work

  3. Hmmmm, maybe we should have traded him for prospects at the deadline after all.

    Joke!

  4. I think Jayson is making some sacrifices for his family. Mikemike is right: the Nationals will be bad for a while. Even if Strausburg and Harper become stars, that is not enough to win.

  5. rizzo is too impulsive. Werth only has two very good years left then will be in a decline. Scott Boras struck at the right time with the Nationals feeling desperate right after losing Dunn and Boras pounced on the opportunity. I am happy for Jayson Werth for taking the deal and it’s his only chance to cash in on his success in his career. The Nationals will not be ready to contend with Werth in his prime so it isn’t so bad of a loss for the Phils after receiving two draft picks.

  6. Legitimacy I guess. It won’t be long before the Nats contend though. 2012 they’ll not only have Strasburg back, but Jordan Zimmerman as well. It’s a huge risk, but I think the Nationals are in a position right now with their fan base that they need to take one and make a splash for 2011.

  7. Scott Boras now represents six players in the Nats organization. Werth, Strasburg, Harper, Rodriguez, Flores, Gonzalez.

  8. As far as our own right field situation, I’m going to make a guess that our 2011 right fielder is not yet in the Phillies’ system. (Unless they trade Ibanez, put Brown in RF and acquire a LFer.)

  9. At least we can stop reading comments about Werth possibly staying with the Phils. In reality, that ship sailed when Boras was hired and RAJ knew it. It will be interesting to see what RAJ does about RF.

  10. That is a huge deal. Congrats Werth. But those rarely ever turn out well for the organization making them. I’m glad the Phils didn’t try to compete with that.

  11. The size of this deal, along with what Crawford will get, will make Howard’s deal seem “less crazy”. I’m surprised he got an $18M avg annual salary, I’m also surprised he got 7 years, but when you put those two together this is really crazy for the Nats. I get the “buying respectibility” argument, but I don’t see Werth as that caliber a player.

  12. “Jayson Werth has signed an eleventy billion year deal for three trillion dollars with the Nationals.”

    lol you read ZWR too much.

  13. Why is it bad teams mostly get stuck with these bad contracts. oh forgot its like the sixers signing brand and hiring losing gm f rom losing teams. This is why teams will never get better, washington really shot themselfs in the foot on this one. But jason got a hell of a christmas present.

  14. In a lot of ways, the Nationals made RAJ’s decision very easy – there was no way the Phillies could match this contract, or even get close. I liked Werth for 4 years and even 5. But those last two or three years are very, very iffy.

    The good news is that this makes it very easy for the Phillies to go outfield “contract shopping.” They can now afford to bring in a decent right-handed platoon bat during the offseason (Matt Diaz or, if he’s affordable, Magglio Ordonez) or, alternatively, they can do outfield shopping the way they’ve shopped for mid-season pitchers. Find an expensive guy mid-contract playing for a bad team, give good value to another team in minor leaguers, and bring him in for a couple of years until his contract plays out. The Phillies appear to have mastered this tactic and I am not aware of other teams looking for players in this manner, but it is a good strategy and, if the players they start the year with don’t work out too well, expect them to bring somebody else in at the trade deadline.

    They will find a way to live without Jayson Werth.

  15. Lets hope that Werth at least does not say it was’t about the money, of course if so he will be the first one to do so!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  16. Would you guys be willing to part with Brown and a few other prospects to trade for Justin Upton if he’s healthy? team friendly contract for the next 5 years and he’s proven. I wouldn’t package Singleton with Brown, but I might do Brown, Schwimmer, Worley, Rizz.

  17. Phils will have the 30th, 34th and #6 second rounder following all the sandwich picks. Should be able to get some quality prospects in a deep draft.

  18. Why wouldn’t the Phillies get the 23rd pick from the Nationals, which they received when the White Sox signed Dunn?

  19. So looking past this deal and onto what it means for the phils, let’s think about the batting order. Assuming the phils keep polanco, utley, and howard batting 2nd through 4th respectively, can we really go into the season with Francisco, Diaz/Milledge, or another lefty like Ibanez batting 5th? I really think Cholly is going to have to think hard about splitting up Utley and Howard or if Rollins comes back healthy and performing like he can, batting him 5th. I really think all the above options are either so risky or unattractive that RAJ is going to have to make a bigger and more creative move than just Diaz or Milledge to fill that gap as a platoon hitter.

  20. @psujoe – the upton thing is intriguing but theres absolutely no shot you’d get him for Dom Brown plus Schwim, Worley and Rizzoti. I think it would be at least two upper level prospect which means Brown plus one of Singleton, Coasart or Brody Colvin. Then probably two or three of the more mid tier guys. He’s a really good young player under control for 5 years… the D’Backs wouldn’t give him up without getting a whole lot in return.

  21. I have said I would explore Upton for a few weeks now. Ultimately I think the price is going to be to high. Brown with Schwimmer, Worley, and Rizzotti doesn’t get in done.
    I think it would be more like Brown, Singleton, Colvin/May/Cosart and maybe one more. No way the Phillies do that.

  22. “Why wouldn’t the Phillies get the 23rd pick from the Nationals, which they received when the White Sox signed Dunn?”

    I don’t think it works that way, but it damn well should.

  23. This is also about the DC team keeping Ryan Zimmerman who was pretty steamed about them not getting Dunn done.

    This is a lot of money going out to players in Washington. Harper was expensive, the #6 and #23 oicks will be expensive (I think they may not make a great effort to sign 23 or will go for a 2nd round type guy), Strasburg was expensive (and is a loss of money right now), Werth is expensive.

    Look everyone can talk about how expensive Howard was but he puts people in the seats. Werth will not add many fannies into the DC seats. Who knows how this will go but bad teams usually make bad decisions.

  24. I don’t know how Werth will handle playing on a bad team. Without having to worry about a new contract down the road, I can see him putting it on cruise control from here. This very well could blow up right in their face.

  25. I think working with charlie and this clubhouse has completely affected Jayson Werth… and heres hoping he falls apart without em.

  26. The Phillies own first round pick is #33 because of picks that didn’t sign last year. So they get #33 and #34.

  27. Alan that comment makes no sense. The Howard contract is starting to become rational now. God knows what Pujols, Fielder and Gonzalez get now.

  28. @phillysmith

    I agree. At times this season Werth just seemed out of it, and lacked focus. It’ll be interesting to see how his attitude is in DC late in the season when they are out of it.

  29. Doesn’t the sandwich round go by win loss record. This would give Washington the 34th pick after loosing Dunn.

  30. You have to think Phils are pleased with the draft position. Likely they get four good players in this draft without having to spend top first round bonuses.

    Remind me what the string and deep areas of the draft are?

  31. No dealing Willingham. Werth signed based on a written outline of Nats ownership plan to win. They don’t do that by trading Zim.

  32. They should remove the second part of the draft restrictions.

    There are two important restrictions on the draft pick changing hands: 1) it cannot be one of the top 15 overall picks in the draft, and 2) it cannot be a pick received from a third team as draft pick compensation. If either of those restrictions apply, the team receiving the pick gets the next-highest draft pick.

  33. Question. How do the 3 prospects the Sox traded for Gonzalez compare to the Phils top prospects including Brown?

  34. Bob, how doesn’t it make sense? The Howard contract was far more irrational than the Werth contract considering the Howard contract is for more money, for a worse player (regardless of Howard’s RBI totals he is not one of the best first basemen in baseball) and Howard was over a year away from free agency.

  35. I would’ve waited on Howard, but I think these cntracts arent going anywhere but up. Have to pay a premium for cost certainty which is why I’d find a way to land Upton.

  36. Interesting notes from Stark’s column tonight – 1) Phils don’t seem to be suddenly trying to replace Werth with a big RH bat, 2) they like Hairston because of his ability to play CF, 3) they are trying hard to trade Ibanez without paying much of his salary.

    The Werth signing is interesting when it comes to Ibanez. Would most teams want Werth at 7 and $126M or Ibanez at 1 year and $11.5M? Doesn’t seem like such a terrible contract anymore and there will be at least one or two teams out of Boston, Detroit, and the Angels who didn’t get their Plan A outfielder and will have to move on to Plan B – where Ibanez could be more attractive than he was yesterday.

    On another note, how about this for an idea that a guy who flipped Cliff Lee on the same day he acquired Roy Halladay might dream up – Try to sign Adrian Beltre to play 3B, trade Polanco (who you would think has a movable contract), trade Ibanez also, get back a few mid level type prospects across the two trades, and platoon Dom Brown and Francisco in right, and a Gload/FA with Diaz/Milledge/Hairston in left. Lineup might look as follows – Rollins, Victorino, Utley, Howard, Beltre, Brown/Ben, Gload/Diaz, Ruiz

  37. LA,
    Like your thinking. Many AL teams would love to add a guy like Ibanez on a one year deal, IMO. There’s value there compared to some of these crazy contracts. RAJ has to earn it this year. Should be interesting.

  38. Does anyone think the phillies will remove someone from the 40 man roster so they can take someone in the Rule 5 Draft? I hope that they do.

  39. I think they may. Phils have a few guys on the 40 man roster that are disposable if the right utility IF or high cieling OF becomes available. Don’t believe they’ll use a pick on a pitcher this year. Don’t find too many high cieling guys in Rule 5 so I bet on an infielder or no pick.

  40. Yeah, that’s right , Philly 1st round pick is 33rd and the first compensation pick is 34th because Werth is highest rated free agent. So, if you want to cry about not getting a first round pick, just imagine the first round is 34 picks instead of 33 and you will feel better. Teams do not compensate with acquired picks because it is not their draft pick, it is that way in every sport and always has been.

    The idea of getting Justin Upton for Domonic Brown alone and if that don’t work adding a few more high value Low-A prospects is off base. Arizona wants players that can play now, and more that one as befits a player as old as Brown with 4 years in MLB.

    Who says Nats trade Willingham. Werth plays RF, they slide Mike Morse backed by Roger Bernhadina to LF, and slide Willingham to 1B. If they sign Carlos Pena, maybe they trade him. Willingham is not a platoon player nor a role player and hasn’t been for years, starter and will be paid as one. Washington has good line-up, had one last season and may outperform Philly next season. 3b-Zimmerman v. Polanco, RF Werth v. Guess who?, CF – Nyjier Morgan legitimate Lead off Hitter v. Victorino , LF- Mike Morse could advance to a level above Ibanez or platoon, 1B Willingham v. Howard Howard will produce more RBI’s likely but the gap could narrow. C- Wilson Ramos and Ivan Rodriguez and /or Jesus Flores v. Ruiz, and as to the Middle Infielders, favor good chance for Ian Desmond to outperform Rollins again , and maybe Espinosa can compare to the recently injured at times and declining Utley. They also have far more MLB level promising young pitchers by far. So those commenters and media members who say this organiztion is far away, once again are off.

  41. Marfis is an alias for which member of the Nats front office???

    Espinosa over Utley?
    Desmond over Rollins?
    Morse over Ibanez?
    Willingham over Howard?
    Flores/Pudge over Ruiz?
    Morgan over Victorino?
    How about Doc, Os, and Cole, I suppose Washington has a better Top 3 also?

  42. Flores/Pudge over Ruiz???
    Not 2010 improved batting style Ruiz.

    LA Phils Phan You are thinking the Phils return to form.
    Marfis see the 2011 downhill trend to continue.
    It will be interesting to see which is correct.

  43. The only advantage the Nats have is Zimmerman at third and now Werth in rf. Desmond in a few yrs..maybe..and they have no pitching…at all..a good year for them will be third place.

  44. Sorry Marfis but the Nats pitching staff is still a disaster and Werth will basically replace most (not all) of Dunn’s offense. At best, the Nats have managed to break even with their 2010 version for $127m. I especially like the Espanosa vs. Utley call. Also not quite sure what minor league pitching the Nats have that is better than what the Phillies have moving through the A-ball level right now.

    Tremendous deal for Werth but it’ll be interesting to see how he handles the pressure that comes with the $$$. He doesn’t seem to be the type of guy who likes the spotlight that much so it will be interesting to see how that goes.

  45. This is a crossroad year for the Phils. Is also a crossroads year for Werth.
    He always seemed like a weak personality(coping Utley’s style)( periods of confusion on the field). Personally I think the Nats overpaid for a guy who has shown no leadership potential. It will be interesting to see if Werth progresses or not.

  46. Geese I just said on Friday I thought he would get the $16-$18 but not the years leave it to the Nats and Boras to blow that logic up. Whatever they still don’t have the pitching to make any great strides next year. I just hope our scouting crew is on their game to make the most of the upcoming draft.

    No matter for us the plan is still the same you need adequate RH to protect Howard in the line-up and you need Howard to walk more and strike out less. I’m not sure who that guy is but I don’t think he is an FA. I think a trade needs to be made to get him.

  47. Pat Gillick would never even considered doing this type of long term deal with Werth and now is the first member of the 2012 Hall of Fame class as of this morning. Rueben will find a replacement for Werth , who is another Scott Boras overpaid client.

  48. If the phillies can move ibanez, i would try to sign diaz , and francour. platoon francour in right with brown/ or try to get upton offer them brown, singleton and one of our pitchers . he is worth the risk. I know singleton looks awesome but upton is allready proven.

  49. Marfis the national can sign cliff lee pena and still not be as good as the phillies comeon. you must be kidding.

  50. I feel compelled to give the Nats some credit here, in that they completely used the system to their benefit. Since the top 15 picks are protected, they essentially “traded” Adam Dunn and their 2nd round pick for Jayson Werth AND another first round pick. That’s a hard deal to pass on if your in tha Nats front office, and evidence that the free agent system has some flaws.

    While the Nats financial commitment is significant – and could prove burdensome towards the end of Werth’s deal – if their scouting department proves competent their minor league system will be stacked and potentially provide them with chips to trade
    for proven major league players.

  51. Athens: Add the following factor to your “trade” analysis, Dunn was signed I believe for 4 yrs, $56M ($14M per year) so Werth is costing them about $4M more per year for the next 4, then in essence has a 3 yr deal after that for probably north of $54M at age 36.

    As for the Nats scouting dept, have they shown any skill whatsoever other than making obvious picks in Strasburg and Harper, and stepping up to pay them? I have not heard that their minor league system is all that great after these guys which were both obvious picks based on their horrible on the field performance the year before.

  52. Why is francour a bad platoon player great outfielder and hits lefthand pitching well. las t year hit 300 against lefthand pitching in 120 at bats. if he comes cheap why not??

  53. If I were the Nats, I would have overpaid for Crawford… not Werth.

    Unles they’re just trying to draw more Phillies fans down there or something..

  54. Mikemike, I’ve seen this song and dance with Francoeur several times now. Great athlete, likeable guy. But he swings at evert piece of garbage thrown in his vicinity. Every so often he starts the season great, or gets traded and has a hot start, and writers rave about how he’s turned the corner and become a great hitter. And then the slump hits. We’re talking about a corner outfielder with a sub .400 slugging percentage over his last three seasons. No amount of lefty bashing makes that a productive player.

  55. They talk about Scott Hairston as an OF option as he also plays CF, and I say moreso because he also can be the 6th Infielder. They should add S. Hairston and Matt Diaz, and that would necessitate the trade of Ben Francisco. I think they could trade him to Kansas City or Pittsburgh and throw in the Mayberry Jr. also. Kansas City needs RH hitters badly and a RF and maybe a RH hitter to mix with Alex Gordon in LF. Or maybe they could be persuaded to trade Gordon (and Robinson Tejeda) for Francisco, a LF platoon of Mayberry and Ross Gload, a starting pitcher to back end their rotation in Kyle Kendrick , and the fully paid new DH for them in Ibanez. That gives them : Billy Butler at 1B, Mayberry/Gload in LF, Mitch Maier in CF, Francisco in RF, and the free Ibanez at DH for a season. Sounds like an improvement, and Mayberry is a KC tradition.
    Pittsburgh as currently constituted needs a RF and RH hitting platoon at 1B W/ Garrett Jones. So , since they have but 36 on the 40 , move Francisco, Mayberry , and Kyle Kendrick to back end of rotation for a 40 man roster member John Bowker a LH OF, and they can still make 2 Rule 5 selections. Then they can also fully pay Ibanez and send to AL.
    Making one of these moves they can add on Scott Hairston and Matt Diaz to platoon with either A. Gordon or J. Bowker in LF or Domonic Brown in RF. The Gordon / Hairston combo would add on a couple of extra Infield types for roster flexibility.
    All of this could somewhat offset the signing of Jayson Werth by the Nationals , and go toward filling the OF holes since the moving of Jayson Werth.

  56. Suggested moves :
    Sign Beltre to play 3B / move Polanco to 2B …That would give you 3 gold glovers (Incl Rollins ) in the infield
    Trade Utley to LA for Kemp and a quality relief pitcher . Kemp to CF move Victorino to RF
    These moves make you better defensively with 5 gold glovers / balance in the lineup with 4 RH and 4 LH hitters / a little younger ( Kemp is 26 ) / and won’t increase the payroll since Utleys 12M goes to Beltre and Kemp makes the same as Werth @ 7M

  57. Upton would of made a ton more sense then Werth if only from the age standpoint.

    No Diaz please.

  58. Francoeur is a terrible player. His career OBP is .310 and his OPS is .735!!!!. Don’t let 50 at-bats with Texas overshadow how bad he has been with both Atlanta and the Mets. Would rather have Mayberry platooning in RF..

  59. I agree on Francouer, we have enough streaky hitters in our lineup already – Howard, Utley, Rollins, Ibanez, and Victorino. Polanco was a good pickup because he is more stable, a platoon or two in the outfield help with that also because you can go with the hot hand from time to time and take advantage of a guy on a streak. We need less all or nothing type strikeout guys in our lineup and more guys that work a count, get some walks, slap some singles around to get on base, etc. That’s part of the reason I would love to see them move Ruiz up in the lineup to the 2 hole or the 7 hole, but I’m not sure he has enough speed to bat second and that is really Polanco’s best spot to hit.

  60. Dom, interesting moves. Something big is going to go down. I feel it.

    Beltre would cost more than $12 per year, but Utley makes $15 per year so you could go with $15 per for Beltre.

  61. Dom Interesting you would say that, because i was thinking the exact same thing. Remember Amaro said about a month ago the Phils were too lefthanded

  62. I’m glad RAJ is our GM and not you guys. Some of these propsed deals are just not realistic and have no chance of happening. Isn’t Scott Hairston an outfielder only? His brother Jerry is the IF/OF, right? Franceur is an interesting guy to add because of the small chance that he’ll suddenly figure it out and get back to what he was in his 1st two years in the league. His glove would be a nice addition in the OF and I hear he’s a good guy in the clubhouse. It obviously depends on the price. It looks like Diaz is going to go for more money as is my choice, Bill Hall, who can play all over and solve several problems. Trading Ibanez would be an interesting move and would of course have to be backed up with an additional OF signing. I could see the Phils changing their team into a pitching and fielding team and look for situation platoon hitters in LF and RF. Could be an interesting week….

  63. Additionally Conlin said about 2 or 3 weeks ago that the Phils were talking with the A’s and Angels a big trade involving Core players if the Phils were too lefthanded before they are more lefthanded today

  64. Stark reporting Phils are picking up the pace on Francouer. Interesting note about Lorenzo Cain (Brewers) being on the market, young RH hitting CF with speed it looks like, but I don’t know much about him. Says the Brewers want young pitching in return. Would they take Kendrick for this guy or one of our young relievers like Mathieson or Schwimmer? Anyone know more about him?

  65. Interesting thought to trading Utley. I like Dom’s thinkgin, but let’s leave money out for a minute.

    Sign A. Beltre.
    Trade Utley to an AL team for 3 or 4 quality prospects that the Dbacks want and flip them for Upton. May have to sweeten it a little, but the lineup would be jacked.

    At that point you keep Raul’s lefty bat for one more year. You’d be covered for 2011 and 2012 you’d have an OF of Upton, Vic and Brown with an infield of Howard, Polanco, Rollins and Beltre would be dominant.

  66. why does everyone feel like a blockbuster move is in order. you don’t have to deal for a game changer every 6 months to remain competitive (Giants, SF), pretty much everybody on the team forgot how to use a bat last year and they’re gonna turn it around next year…we have at worst a top 5 in the majors rotation, we have one of the greatest second baseman of all time who should have a bounce back year after struggling with injuries(never trade utley!), really we have a lot of guys who are really good at baseball…if I’m raj I just sign maybe one or two relievers to small one year deals then look to the farm for other relievers(everyone wants to get younger now), and add a RH hitting utility man to come off the bench and give starters some rest…the only big change that is necessary is take away some say from charlie because he is probably our biggest problems

  67. I think that with the size of Werth’s contract that Philly could be in a great position if they are creative and willing to be bold. My logic is a number of teams philosophically want to avoid those long term FA deals. That means those teams need to work together and make trades to improve their clubs. I also think that Ibanez is gone. Werth’s deal makes him very tradeable especially to an AL team for one year. It also makes Upton more “valuable” because of his contract, age, and production compared to what you can get on the open market. I could see a significantly different Philly team taking the field in ’11.

  68. I know some of you guys do not like Francouer, but he is 26 is a good outfielder with a great arm. like Jason Werth would be coming her as a platoon player

  69. I like those ideas involving trading Utley. Lately, I don’t know, he seems to be past his prime. It is looking more and more likely that the Utley MVP year is not going to happen, and we’ll be lucky if an Utley .290 year happens.

    The Mike Richards/Chase Utley comparisons are coming fewer and fewer.

    Trading Utley NOW, when he has plenty of value, is the best possible move. After this season, I think Utley’s value drops like a rock. Especially if he gets injured even once.

  70. Francouer has a lot of similarities to Werth of 5 years ago, who started platooning with Geoff Jenkins. Cholly turned around Werth, I think the Phillies think he can do the same for Francouer.

    By the way, the people wanting to trade Utley…

    GET OFF THE PIPE!!!!!

    A team trying to win a World Championship does no trade their pacesetter and leader.

  71. Boras claiming 5/$70 for Beltre. I’d do it if I could land Justin in the process. Payroll for infield and Rf would actually be less than last year.

  72. Trading Utley is an awful, awful idea. He’s legitimately the best player the franchise has had since Mike Schmidt and extremely popular in the city. There’s maybe 4-5 guys in all of baseball I’d trade him for.

    As for Francoeur (and I believe my opinion should carry some weight as I appear to be the only person who can spell his name), I don’t give a rat’s ass what kind of outfielder he is, or his age. He’s been in the majors for six years. He’s an awful hitter, doesn’t steal bases and he’s a low percentage basestealer at that. For as much as we look at Mayberry as a failure, Mayberry is probably a better ballplayer than Francoeur.

    I mean seriously, in Francoeur’s best season his OPS+ was 102. That’s below average for a corner outfielder. What upside am I missing here? Put him in the middle of the order and he’ll collect some RBIs but he’s an absolute out machine.

  73. Alan,

    You’d essentially be trading Utley(3/$45) for Beltre(5/$70) and Justin Upton(5/$50). You wouldn’t do that? If there’s another way to get 25+ hrs for the #5 hole I’m open to it, but it’s essential to get a power RH bat.

  74. Beltre would scare the crap out of me based on his previous performance history AFTER getting the big $$$. For some strange reason he seems to play his best baseball in his walk season….

  75. Beltre for 5 years? No way. Trade Chase to get Upton? OMG, do you guys know what it actually takes to win? There’s a reason the Phils didn’t win for 30 years and it involves not only talent but having the right mix of talent. The last time I checked, the Phils just won 97 games and only lost in the NLCS a year after losing in the WS. We have an excellent starting rotation and a team bult to win now. Could they trade Raul? Its possible of course, they might try to trade him for two relievers. Trading him would allow them to sign Magglio for nearly the same money and they would then have less pressure in playing Dom as another lefty at some point. But trading anyone in the core of the team (Utley, Howard, Rollins, Halladay, oswalt, Hamels, Madsen, Lidge) won’t happen. No shot.

  76. Trading Utley is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard….not only are you trading a guy that should not be traded but you’re proposing doing it after a bad year so your return would be less than ever. Unless the Phils really believe last year was the new norm, there is no reason to even think about this.

  77. I love Utley but I think he is past his prime based on the way he plays the game . He is an old 32 . His fielding in the last 2 playoffs was awful and his batting average and power numbers will never be what we saw in 2007 in my opinion.
    He just wears down by Sept every year . Last year even when rested after his injury his numbers were still down the last 2 months of the season?
    With him the team is too left handed and most teams in their division have loaded up with LH relief pitchers to neutrilize the lineup. I think Atlanta has 4 lefties in the pen and SF lefties just shut them down .
    Addding a right handed bat like Beltre ( gold glover) with a . 321 BA and maybe an Upton or Kemp would balance the lineup and improve the team defensively.

  78. Agree with Alan on Utley and Francoeur (Alan, I always spell it right–:-)). No brainer on Utley, IMO, for all the reasons Alan gives. Also agree with Murray that if there is any way to trade Ibanez and get Ordonez, that’s a big plus, although I think Ibanez can easily have a good year in 2011. The point is, we get a great RH hitter in a position that fits his abilities (LF), we can still platoon Brown and Diaz/etc. in RF, and we wind up as good or better an offensive team as 2010, likely better if two of Utley/Howard/Rollins rebound, not an unreasonable hope.

    Agree there is a lot of crazy talk here, and not the kind of crazy that just might work.

  79. I can’t believe some of this talk about trading Utley. You think trading away Lee was bad…I’d walk the 1800 miles back to Philadelphia to smack RAJ for trading away our BEST PLAYER. Utley is just as good against lefties as he is against righties, so you aren’t solving a damn thing. If we should trade anyone, it should be Howard…not Utley. But no, his contract is too absurd to even have another team consider it.

  80. Utley had 40, 40+, 40+, 40+ doubles down to 28 then 20. It’s a serious concern. Management would know better if the decline is real or just coincidence.

  81. Please stop the Ibanez trade talk. He has at least some portion of a no-trade clause. Why would he leave?

    I think signing Werth was a good idea for the Nats. He is a young 31 having been injured and is now hitting his prime as a full time player. (In that way he is similar to Justin Upton who everyone must think is going to get much better based on these interesting trade attempts.) Werth has 5-tool skills including a high walk rate that should allow him to be a valuable player even if some of those skills diminish. I think he is a better player than Crawford (better OPB, SLG, and throwing arm with less speed). Just like Rowand went to a terrible team … that just won the World Series, I think Werth could see the playoffs as Utley and Howard age.

    The bashing of this contract just makes me dislike the Ryan Howard extension that much more.

  82. As far as what do the Phillies do, I would just wait. Unless Ordonez signs cheap ($5M), start the season with Francisco/Mayberry/Gload in RF and see how it goes. If necessary, hitters are available during the season (e.g. SF Giants). I would focus on using the “Werth $” to get another starting pitcher like James Shields to complete the rotation.
    Kendrick is just adequate at best. Worley is unknown and really should be the minors callup guy for the next two years (hopefully a better version of Carpenter). All the AA guys (Ramirez, Hyatt, Sanchez) project more like fringe starters so May is really the only stud that could make it to AA this season.
    Oswalt only has one more year (plus expensive option), while Blanton and Hamels (one plus arb) only have two more. Shields has a bunch of option years which is an excellent contract fitting the Phillies philosophy of short contracts for more $.
    I agree with Amaro that you cannot have enough pitching. If one of the minors guys becomes a stud he is either a valuable trade piece or a potential closer.

  83. I’m a UCLA fan who lives in Philly and I’m a huge Utley fan. But I have to admit something seemed wrong in 2010. Either he was hurt worse than thought or he’s annoyed that Howard got a massive early raise out of the blue. Either way, I can’t even think of trading him.

    I’d rather package Ibanez and the aloof Victorino in a trade to clear $$$ and then sign Crawford to be the true leadoff guy. Of course, you’d have to add another RH hitting OF, but Crawford would be awesome in front of Polanco, Utley and Howard. Or maybe you can get by with Francisco or Mayberry.

  84. Trading Utley is the stupidest thing thing I have ever heard. This is probably coming from the same guys that wanted to sign zito and beltran yrs ago and look how that has worked out for those guys. Trading the leader and heart and sole of your team (that plays a premium position) for what 2 rh bats. So you want a 3b who would pack in again after another big deal and an OF who doesn’t hit for avg, doesn’t steal a lot of bases even with the speed he has and strikes out a ton with a bad attitude to boot. Just keep buying the phillies gear and sitting in the corner bars with your idiot friends talking about how the phils should sign cliff lee and make him the closer b/c we already got 3 real good starters. Dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb.

  85. They are not trading Chase Utley. He is the face of the franchise. He will retire as a Phillie and go the Hall of Fame. Besides that, he is so valuable at his position that, even when we seem to think he is having a season that sucks, he still has an incredible WAR. He is one of the franchise’s great players. A player for the ages. Can we move this discussion into a productive realm?

  86. I heard Carlos Quentin floated. What do you guys think about him? Seems like a reasonable option that wouldn’t cost as much in talent as a Justin Upton would.

  87. It is being reported that the phils are not actively pursuing Francoeur. They reportedly have interest in the angels outfielder Juan Rivera.

  88. Alan…Quentin wouldn’t help us with our problems with left-hand pitching. Even though he’s a right-handed hitter, his lifetime OPS+ vs. LH is only 86.

  89. I want to stop seeing left handed releivers in the playoffs keep getting our left handed hitters out leaving runners in scoring position.

  90. Long time reader…first time poster.

    I recently read on mlbtraderumors.com that “several rival teams” have been inquiring about Hunter Pence. With our frequent dealings with Ed Wade, this got me thinking that maybe the Phils were one of these teams. I’ll be honest I don’t know that much about him but after some research he is 27 made 3.5 mil last year, arb eligible in 2011 and won’t be a free agent until 2014. He is solid in the field (yes he made 6 errors but he had more put outs and assists than Werth). He also batted .282 with 25 HR and 91 RBI. He also has speed, is durable, and RH.

    I think he is a more realistic trade option than Justin Upton and a much better addition than Carlos Quentin. What do you think it would take for the Phils to make this trade happen and would you consider it.

    Like I said, this is pure speculation but I thought it was interesting, and a new name since the others have been beaten to death somewhat.

  91. sdcaphil
    While I feel your pain, getting a RH batter for the playoffs can be addressed after June when the picture is more clear. If a good fit is there ok but no use forcing the issue. Ruben has shown the ability to get what he REALLY needs during the season. Better to trade for the right guy later then to sign a FA who fails. We have plenty of prospects .

  92. CGPhilly, with Ed Wade the standard joke is it would take every middle reliver in our system to get the deal done.

  93. Can we give up this myth about the Phillies getting beaten by the Giants Left-handing pitching already. They got beat by the Giants right-handed pitchers, mainly Lincecum, Cain and Brian Wilson. They beat Lefty Sanchez (and knocked him out early in his second start) and knocked lefty Bumgardner out in the 5th inning of his start.

    The only lefty they struggled with in the series was Javier Lopez and the only Lefty in the Phillies line-up who struggled against left-handed pitching in general was Ryan Howard.

  94. PS JOE GLAD YOU saw the same series as me. the lefty reliever killed us sanchez was wild but we did kill him with hits. mostly walks. looks like diaz isnt on the phillies list they dont know about his defense and arent sure of him in left. let alone right field. if francour signs a incentive laden deal . i would take the chance especially with charlie working with his approach to hitting.

  95. Heard yesterday the astros had to cut some payroll. Hunter pence would be a great addition to our team. I believe the six errors can be contritued to his aggressive play in the outfield, only my opinion. I would offer them kenrick or worley, de fraus or mathieson and a young outfield in our system like athleer or santana

  96. In the series as a whole, the Phillies scored 18 earned runs. 9 against their left-handers in 21.2 innings and 9 against their right-handers in 31.2 innings. Take out a 1-inning, 3-run effort from Ramone Ramirez and the Phillies scored only 6 runs in 30.2 innings against the SF right-handers.

    Truth is that the Phillies scored earned runs against every giant left-handed pitcher but were scoreless vs. Cain, Romo, and Wilson from the right side.

    The Phillies real issue with the Giants was Victorino .208, Werth .222, Ruiz .167, Utley .182, Francisco, .167, Ibanez, .211. Don’t know about you, but a see both Right-handers and Left-handers in that mix. They got beat because SF had good pitching overall, not because they had great left-handers.

  97. I guess some people are watching a different version of the Phillies games played in 2010. The ones I watched show a lineup too left handed and one that teams in their division have learned how to neutrilize with loading up with LH relief pitchers for the later innings. It showed Utley on the decline both on offense and defense ( he looked like Steve Sax aiming the ball on his throws in the playoffs ) Let’s hope he bounces back in 2011 but if he doesn’t what will his trade value be @ 33 ?

  98. No chance you get Hunter Pence for a 5th starter, middle reliever, and 2-tier OF prospect. The guy was an all star in 2009 and put up better numbers in 2010.

    Why not throw in “The Rizz” yet just to make it more fair!!!

  99. No Dom, I agree the Phillies are too lefty dominant in the middle of their order but that wasn’t the issue vs. the Giants.

    As for Utley, we can’t tell if Utley is on the decline yet since we don’t know if he was fully healthly upon his return from injury in 2010. We do know he played the WS season with a hip that required surgery so he’s certainly willing to play through injury.

  100. Scott Hairston started out as an IF and moved to OF.

    Take Pence over the Justin Upton thing, Hits those HR’s while choking up, also puts ball in play w/ good bat control, top of the line D arm and all that. Top of the line. It would take a king’s ransom to get him, probably similar to the packages talked about for Justin Upton.

    Nobody’s copied and pasted my fair and reasonable (to both sides) trade proposals w/ Kansas City and Pittsburgh, and the subsequent minor signings afterwards. Seems basing something off of those frameworks would solve alot of problems for all concerned.

  101. I hope that I will be proven wrong, but I have a feeling that the Phillies are not planning to spend all the $15 or $16 million that Werth would have gotten if he took their deal. So, I do not expect to see any big time free agents or any trade of Ibanez in which the phillies continue to pay him salary. It will be someone like Francoeur or Juan Rivera, not Crawford, probably platooning with either Gload or Brown. They will also add an arm or two and save about $5 million, perhaps for use at the trade deadline.

  102. Utley can’t stay on the field or play defense. He needs to be moved LF in 2012 if stays with the Phils and he needs to stop breaking down and be dependable. I’ll take Pence/Upton over Utley in a heartbeat.

  103. Marfis, your trade proposals are somewhat ridiculous. Bowker and Gordon are worse hitters than Ibanez. You don’t need to trade anyone to acquire Hairston and/or Diaz. And then of course you no longer have Francisco who has a higher career OPS+ than Hairston, or Kyle Kendrick who if nothing else takes the mound every fifth day. I could see a ridiculous trade proposal that makes our team better, but what’s the point of making a complicated trade that nets John F’n Bowker?

  104. And Rulz, Utley missed three games in 2008 and six in 2009. That’s hardly an undependable player. In fact, only three second basemen in the majors have played more games than Utley over the last three seasons. Dustin Pedroia, Brian Roberts, Ian Kinsler have missed more time than Utley. Should they be moved too?

  105. I refuse to refer to any more Utley trade proposals because they’re foolish and won’t happen. However, if Pence is available, the Phils will likely be in on it. It would probably take Singleton and one of our Lakewood pitching prospects but it would be hard to turn down becaue Pence would look tremendous in our lineup.

  106. Murray – thank you for your thoughts… it is embarrassing to think that we have fans who think Utley needs to be moved.

    Pence for Singleton, Cosart and Garcia?

  107. 3 up I didnt think its enough but was trying to come up with what they would take. they must reduce payroll and have to sign bourn yet and others, and it mention houston was open to talking about pence, and two bullpen guys to start.

  108. Mikemike,

    Pence is a lot like Upton in that he is good now, relatively young, and just beginning to hit arbitration. Most likely, it would take one of the Phillies front line A-ball starters along with a solid, young ML-ready bullpen arm like Bastardo, and then a quality younger position player.

    Biggest issue the Phillies have today with trying to trade is that there best talent is at A-ball and teams will generally ask for greater talent because the risk of failure is greater when trading for guys that far away from the majors.

    Also, looking at the Astro’s payroll/roster, they really shouldn’t have much salary to move. The only obvious albatros is Carlos Lee but it’s unlikely they are able to move him without eating (no pun intended) a big chunk of his contract. Most of their roster is just now entering arbitration. I also doubt they would have resigned Brett Myers to his $$$ if they were looking to trim payroll.

  109. Just telling what I read, they need to reduce payroll. was on mlb i believe where I read it they want to move there closer but dont think anyone will take a chance on him.

  110. Ouch jumpin! That would be hard to swallow even for a guy like pence. I know quantity trades never happen because other teams obviously want top talent for young stars, but i would do this in a heartbeat and with wade as GM we actually would have atleast a 1% chance of him being enamored with our prospects: Aumont, J. james, Rizzotti, Hyatt, Zied, defratus.
    or J.C Ramirez, H. garcia, L. Castro, Schwimer, Schreve, Pettibone
    or if they needed ml ready players: Francisco, worley, kendrick, Bastardo, Mathieson, rizzotti. Any of these would be easier to swallow for me which means most GM’s would probably balk at them but hey maybe ed will even give us 10 mil. to go along with pence for these trade proposals. LOL

  111. Man, the comments on this site are brutal. 90% of these comments are asinine. Alan, it is nice of you to be the much needed voice of reason here.

    some brief thoughts…

    **Ibanez has a no trade clause…he’s not going anywhere
    **Francoeur is among the worst players in MLB (as mentioned, look at his OPS)
    **Mayberry isn’t a MLB player on a contending club
    **Gload can’t play the OF (remember him dropping routine fly balls during his limited time out there last year???)
    **Trading Utley is absurd
    **George Sherrill sucks (phils rumored to be front runners to sign him)

    I agree with the posts that there is no need to attempt and reinvent the wheel here. The Phils are coming off of a year where they had the best record in baseball. Losing Werth will hurt, but there is no way that they should have considered matching the deal that DC gave him.

    I’d love to see a trade for willingham or rivera, but that is not likely with the phils payroll restrictions (the howard contract ensures that this will be the case for the next 6 years…ughhh). With the available free agent OFs, the phils best course of action is probably to do nothing and give Francisco a shot in RF. I’m much more concerned about the bullpen than who plays RF.

  112. I agree with most of what you said. However, Sherill does not suck. He certainly sucked last year but in the world of relievers, that might mean that he’ll be terrific this coming season. Its amazing how so many relievers have great years following bad years following good years. It could be a great buy low scenario. The Phils are rumored to be in talks with Sherrill and Dennys Reyes but so are other teams. These two guys will come much cheaper than Feliciano and Fuentes. I’m also guessing that the discussions with Franceur are of a Plan B nature. The Phils will look to do a trade for a RF plus a reliever if they can’t get any FAs signed for what they deem to be reasonble amounts. This whol ething won’t be resolved soon because the Phils want to save money and shop at the bargain bin and it takes awhile for that bin to take shape.

  113. Going young in the pen is a great idea. We are solid with Contreras, Mad Dod and Lidge. Give Bastardo a real shot and see who lights it up in the spring. Try to stretch Blanton and Kendrick out past the 5th and 6th when possible.
    Ibanez will be fine for one more season. I like Pence but I would not be giving up the farm for him. Diaz,Frenchy and even Ordonez have huge holes.
    Brown brings some speed which is an element that Werth could bring. Jimmy and Vic have to see some more pitches with Werth gone as he did drag the counts out on pitchers bringing the opponents bullpens into play early.

  114. Ibanez does not have a no trade for this season. He had it for the first two yrs of his contract but not for the last though he probably doesn’t get moved.

  115. @ Randy — where are you getting your info? I have always found the details of their contracts interesting, but haven’t seen commentary on types of no trade clauses before like you describe. Was that in a news paper article?

  116. Utley missed 30 games in 2007 and and 47 games this year. Mighty easy to paint a picture of him as a healthy player when you ignore the times that he is hurt. Trade him now when he has value, he is on the decline and doesn’t hit enough to star as a corner outfielder position. One of the all time best Phillies, but you can’t keep them forever unless you want to stink.

  117. Ok. I’ve expanded it to 2007-10 and that gives all of FOUR second basemen that have played more games than Utley. Cano, Uggla, Phillips and oddly enough, Placido Polanco.

  118. 1) How can anyone say signing Sherill is crazy? If we sign him, it will be very low guaranteed $ with a huge upside potential. I think that’s way better than guaranteeing a guy 2 or 3 yrs like Feliciano. If it doesn’t work, we make a trade in July.

    2) How can anyone say Mayberry can’t be a 5th OF? I agree he’s not an MLB starter, probably not even a platoon player, but to be the 24th or 25th guy on the roster, I don’t see how anyone can have a problem with that.

    3). I hate Hunter Pence. He is annoying, goofy looking, plays the game very weirdly, but all that probably means he is a good player. Prob what Dodger fans say about Victorino.

  119. Obviously he is going to have nearly the highest games played over that 4 year window. He was the best second baseman in the game for much of that stretch. Name just about any top 4 player over a long enough period and he will be top 4 in games played at his position. The vast majority of the guys aren’t even going to be starters for the full 4 year period.

    Why does everybody always talk about getting him more rest unless he needs more rest since he is always broken down.

  120. @ RULZUtley isn’t going anywhere so you might as well stop talking about it. Guy breaks his thumb making a hustle play sliding into second base and you want to ship him off. Its not like he has a recurring injury. He is the victim of some bad luck. Who the hell would replace him? Polanco? He was injured last year too, might as well package them together and ship them both off with your logic. Have you already forgotten what he did in the 2009 World Series?…his performance was legendary, then after the fact he was like oh yeah btw I need hip surgery. Ill take Utley in his decline over pretty much any other 2nd baseman (possible exception being Cano). He has fire and passion and is a WINNER. He is only 31, which is only 3 years older than Cano, Uggla, Pedroia, and Kinsler.

    Leave it to Philadelphia fans to have a team that had major injury issues last year, and STILL won 97 games, and still suggest we need to blow up the team.

    And he needs rest not because he is broken down but to prolong his career and keep him fresh over the 162+playoffs games per year.

  121. Thank you utley26!! To say utley is injury prone is half true, i mentioned this before that he got hurt sliding into 2nd once and got hit in the hand the other time when he was out for an extended period of time, thats bad luck. Hunter pence would look nice in rf no matter how goofy he looks. i think cosart and singleton would be much but cosart, bastardo or mathieson, and james could get it done, we know ed wade loves them relievers.

  122. Rulz, you realize that Utley has played the exact same number of games as Upton has the last 2 years, the “healthy” guy you’d take in a heartbeat?

    I’m more concerned about Jimmy Rollins frequent leg injuries than I am about Utley having his wrist broken by a pitch in 2007 and then injuring his thumb sliding into 2nd base in 201o.

    But at least you agree that Utley is a top-4 player at his position so I can see why the Phillies would want to trade him away…

  123. Ck it was brought up on this site a while back and a link was provided. I can’t remember where the article was out of but I am quite sure the no trade does not include his final year.

  124. 3up3kkk
    You can’t just ignore Utley’s play in the playoffs. I believe the team should be careful and wait to see if it was a temporary valley or if something has to be done. Even something as radical as a partial move to
    Lf. Overcommitment is not the way to go until ST.

  125. Sorry, you can’t evaluate a player based on 6 games in the Playoffs.

    Joe Dimaggio hit .111 in the 1949 WS and Yogi Berra hit .063.
    Dimaggio hit .231 in the 1947 WS, the same year he was league MVP.
    Richie Ashburn hit .176 in 1950
    Mickey Mantle’s CAREER BA in the Post Season is just .257 including a .120 average in his MVP season of 1962.
    Barry Bonds and Alex Rodriguez’s struggles in the playoffs are well documented.

    No doubt each of those players should have been traded after those seasons because you just can’t ignore their performance in the playoffs!!!

    Point isn’t to compare Utley to any of these guys but rather to make the point that even HOF players have up and down stretches. It just becomes magnified when they happen during the playoffs. Smart organizations don’t make rash, emotional decisions based on one series or even one season even if some of their more irrational fans want them to. Places like WIP are where those types of decisions get made…

  126. Try reading . What I said was it will take ST to evalute Utley. If he just didn’t hit that would be one thing. But he also was terrible in the field .
    As for your other comments You are the one who is being emotional and irrational. All I said is don’t OVER COMMIT the roster.

  127. I ready your post quite well, try making a little sense. What you said was that based on his playoff performance, the Phillies should be worried about Utley’s ability to play 2nd during ST. Sorry, but that is a ridiculous statement. The team would be foolish to pass on assembling their OF on the outside chance that Utley has suddenly turned into Steve Sax and can’t play 2nd anymore. If that did actually happen, why would they assume that he can play RF since he’s never played there before.

    Sorry, but Utley has been an AS player for long enough that he doesn’t need to have a big ST to make the team, he has earned the benefit of the doubt. IF he is suddenly a disaster at the position then the team will have to deal with it during the season but going into ST 2011 Utley is the least of my worries.

  128. ****You can’t just ignore Utley’s play in the playoffs. I believe the team should be careful and wait to see if it was a temporary valley or if something has to be done. ****

    How did Michael Jack do in the post-season again? I seem to recall him being pretty brutal a couple times. Small sample size, etc etc. If you bash Chase, you’re bashing Michael Jack, and if you bash Michael Jack, you’re bashing the Hall of Fame, and if you bash the Hall of Fame, you’re bashing America’s Pastime, and if you bash America’s Pastime, you’re bashing America itself. I, for one, am not gonna stand here and listen to you bash the United States!!!

  129. Sorry, must always remember that Utley is the great white hope. Can’t question him, even though he is getting old, has been a butcher in the field in the playoffs for the past two years, has seen his hitting go notably down, and has problems staying healthy.

    In the future I’ll drink the kool-aid and remember his past successes even when he drags the team down.

    Nobody is irreplaceable. He is the most marketable position player that the Phils have and he is on the downside of his career.

  130. I put up scenarios with the removal of B. Francisco, J. Mayberry Jr. , R. Gload, K. Kendrick, and Ibanez in them, in that this would clear some salary (though not all scheduled for Ibanez as known) and some spots on the roster to facilitate the bringing in of players more useful to the goals of the following season. None are top of the line and moves could be made to improve the situation following their moving.
    Ibanez- I highly doubt he has a full no-trade clause, and I don’t believe it is generally known how many teams he can block a trade to , or even if it is still in effect. If people claim to know about it , why don’t they put the exact details on here for all to see.
    Mayberry has utility in that he is fine for defense in LF, RF, and 1B and would do all right in a role against LHP’s for teams badly in need of RH hitting platoon types.
    Gload is fine in the OF, Plays RF, no problem.
    Kendrick has value to teams as a starter support and occasional utility pitching, and has candidates to replace him in Philly.
    What is gotten in return is of less importance than clearing some space and payroll to add players. If they wind up with Bowker and Gordon as a LH hitting LF to back a RH hitting potential starter in LF , that’s good. They both have had potential as hitters, hit the ball hard, and if the results are not there, just stock it up to the stats guts litany “bad luck”. Also, in the KC proposal made, the reliever Robinson Tejeda was included and that may have given more for potential success than any of the aforementioned. And he has been rumored to be movable. But the exact scenarios listed above can not be, because now the Pirates have signed Matt Diaz.

  131. NEPP
    When oh when did you ever see MJS look out of place in field? Its not the hitting or the fielding but both. No one is throwing in the toilet just lets do this with open eyes. History is just that. My theory is self-made players (defensively in this case ) can go early.

  132. RULZ, it’s a good thing that all the baseball front offices aren’t as smart as you, or Utley wouldn’t be as marketable to the other teams. Thank God you know so much more than them.

    They probably didn’t watch the playoffs. Even if they did, they clearly don’t know how to correctly balance the value of his performance there with his overall body of work like you do. After all, it’s only their job. How can they know as much about it?

  133. The major problem of course is that if Utley was indeed going down the toilet, who would want to give up serious talent to acquire him?

  134. No one was bashing utley during the regular season when he was making all the plays and by some is considered a very good fielding 2b. He is one guy who we know busts his ass on and off the field to make himself better. Don’t forget he came back a lot earlier from the thumb injury than anyone expected and its safe to assume he wasn’t anywhere near 100%. Lets save you and the phillies all the trouble and just cut him out of spring training so you won’t have to worry about his decline in play.

  135. Dave. First, are you so simple minded that you need to call my out for not being a GM? Thanks chef.

    Second, by some measures his hitting production has gone down for the last four years. OPS dropped for the last 3 years.

    He isn’t a junk player yet, so he still has some value. But you typically try to move assets when they still have value, especially when a dolt like Ed Wade is out there willing to overpay for them.

  136. Wow !!!! some great conversation on Utley . No one is saying Utley is a bum and he must be traded . The question is who on the roster is more marketable that would add players to : improve the team defense / hit behind Howard / get a little younger and not make the team so left handed ?
    Signing Beltre to play 3b and moving Polanco to 2b would improve the defense . Trading an Utley for a right handed power hitter to play right field and a quality relief pitcher would be a suggestion .
    What moves do you suggest that would accomplish the above ?

  137. Afraid you can just pick Utley’s best career statistical season and measure his production from there. Using that method I can make the case for just about player who didn’t have a career year in 2010 as being in decline. Do you realize that Albert Pujols Ops has dropped in every season since 2008 or that A-rod has also been in decline since 2007 as well.

    Hell, Ryan Howard has been in serious decline since 2006. I hope that those guys aren’t junk players yet either.

    Yes its a good idea to move assets when then have value but only if the asset your getting in return has MORE value, not less. Who’s Wade going to trade for Utley, Hunter Pence? You do then realize that Utley’s pitiful .832 OPS in 2010 was higher than Pence’s in 2010, 2009, and 2008?

  138. The phillies must be thinking they will try the brown, francisco platoon if it doesnt work then they will trade for someone, that is what I believe, now that franceour and diaz are off the market, unless they are really serious about bringing back rowland ,which i dont figure they will do unless giants pay a large part of contract. Really if rollins and utley bounce back it will make up some of werth power,lost.

  139. Dom,

    You Realize the Adrian Beltre has had an OPS over .900 TWICE in his career. 1st time in 2004 when he just happened to be a FA and signed a big deal with SEA. He then proceeded to post one season over 800 (.802 in 2007) with most years in the low 700’s before putting up a .919 in 2010 which happens to be his second opportunity to get a big payday as a FA..

    Sorry, but I’m not interested in the Phillies being his next opportunity to cash a pay check and go through the motions.

  140. Actually, I don’t think Von Hayes was as much a tank-it guy as he just wasn’t as good as the Phillies thought he would be. The whole 5 for1 thing became an albatross he wasn’t able to shake (Especially after Franco quickly became an AS player).

    Interestingly, Hayes was eventually traded to the California Angels for Rubin Amaro Jr..

  141. It’s not a mystery when you look at the rest of his teams. The ’88 club had only two other players hit above .250. That was a putrid offensive team.

    (Fun fact: The first MLB game I ever saw was between the Phillies and Cardinals in 1988. The Phillies won 1-0.)

  142. Chase Utley hits lefthanders just fine so he does not contribute to our perceived problem against lefties. The team led the majors in wins with massive injury problems. Players who play all out get hurt sometimes and Chase is balls to the wall all out.
    He also sets the perfect tone and example. Leadership is critical and he needs to be there for the Browns, Singletons and others to watch.

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