Around the System (3B)

The Phillies hold a $5,000,000 club option on Pedro Feliz for next season which they would be fools to not pick up, based on both his production and the available major league ready talent (none)in the system currently. Read about the talent below the fold.

Lehigh Valley

Mike Cervenak, Age 33, Re-signed as free agent prior to ’09 season.  36 games at 3B, 22 in the OF; 28 at 1B and 31 at DH.  .305/.347/.350 in 462 AB’s.  9 HR 77 RBI, 1SB.  .393 vs. LHP, .277 vs. RHP, .317 with RISP, .328 post all star.  4 errors at 3B (.951). Cervenak was once again outstanding at the plate, cutting down on his strikeouts and hitting consistently all year, providing many big hits for the ‘Pigs.  He fielding was relatively solid as well this year.  Having missed a month after taking a Tommy Hanson fastball off his wrist, not much more could be expected from Cervenak then what he gave, returning early from the broken wrist to put life back into the middle of the Lehigh Valley order.  The future in the organization is questionable for Cervenak aho, at age 33 is a  free agent.  He is very well respected in Allentown as a very hard working player…it is simply a matter of where the Phils want to go with their AAAA players. Cervenak additionally provides roster flexibility in his ability to play multiple positions.

Terry Tiffee, Age 30, Signed as a free agent prior to ’09 season. .269/.295/.378. in 246 AB’s.  5 HR and 34 RBI’s.  .324 vs. LHP and .247 vs. RHP. .345 with RISP.  4 errors (.973) After being expected to be a big part of the Lehigh Valley lineup, Tiffee missed the first half of the year with significant back issues.  When he returned, he added some punch to the ‘Pigs lineup, as a switch hitter who consistently makes contact.  He probably didn’t quite live up to expectations as he was battling his back most of the year.  2009 was his 7th season in AAA, and although a fairly valuable minor league commodity, I wouldnt be surprised to see him in another organization next year.


Neil Sellers, Age 27, Acquired in the Minor League Rule 5 Draft prior to ’08 season.  .317/.383/.486 in 586 AB’s.  17 HR and 86 RBI’s. 5 SB (5CS) .366 vs. LHP; .321 post all star, .292 with RISP. 14 errors, (.961). Made the Eastern League All Star team, and was named a Post Season Eastern League All Star. Also played 3 games at 2B and 11 games at 1B.  After spending his third full season in AA ball, Sellers certainly excelled at the plate this year, hitting consistently for both average and power. He is clearly ready for a move to AAA, at least based on his hitting line.  Whether or not the Phils decide that he will be in Lehigh Valley has most to do with the future of both Cervenak and Tiffee above him.


Cody Overbeck, Age 23, Phils 9th round pick in 2008 draft.  .230/.282/.399 in 361 AB’s. 12 HR 51 RBI; 29% K Rate. .314 vs. LHP; .204 vs. RHP; .208 with RISP. 17 errors (.915). Overbeck is a guy that came with some expectations and after a decent ’08 in Williamsport, he disappointed this year with a tough year at the plate and an even tougher year in the field. I think Overbeck has to move up, as Mattair will not be doing a 3rd year in Lakewood.

Yonderman Rodriguez, Will be 23 in February.  Signed as a free agent in 2003.  .248/.329/..298 in 282 AB’s.  2 HR 24 RBI, 8 SB (9 CS). .272 with RISP, 9 errors at 3B (.942). Played 55 games at 3B, 20 at 2B, 10 at SS, 1 in LF and 1 at 1B. Rodriguez’ strength is simply is versatility.  He will be around if the Phils feel they need another organizational guy that will be able to move up and down and fulfill needs at several positions.


Travis Mattair, Will be 21 in December; Phils 2nd round pick in 2007 draft. .236/.326/.333 with 3 HR and 39 RBI in 450 AB’s. 12 SB. .219 vs. LHP. .193 with RISP. .218 post all star, 29% K rate. 19 errors (.948). The positive this year for Mattair was a higher walk rate and better fielding (although still not very good), but other then that it was a very disappointing year for the 2nd round draft choice who spent his second consecutive year in Low A ball, and saw many of his numbers decline. He hasn’t been able to produce the power needed in a third baseman, is striking out alot and not hitting for average, a difficult combination for any semblance of success.  The bright side is Mattair by all accounts has a very good work ethic and still is young, at 21 for the entire next season. I highly doubt the Phils will keep him at Low A for a 3rd year, and will hope a change of scenary in CLearwater will help him.


Anthony Hewitt, Age 20, Phils 1st round pick in 2008 draft. .223/.255/395 in 233 AB’s. 7 HR 30 RBI, 9 SB (5 CS). 33% K rate. .146 vs. LHP; .167 with RISP; .223 post all star. 26 errors (.827). Where to begin….well, his hitting improved from the .197 mark he put up in the GCL league in 2008 and he showed flashes of true promise but with that being said, it was not a good year at all for Hewitt.  His offense was below par, albeit with flashes of power and speed and his defense was simply pourous.  Until he is able to a minimally competant job at 3B, I cant see the Phils moving him out of Williamsport, which is an age appropraite league for the 20 year old. A move to the OF seems to make some sense.

Alan Schoenberger, Age 20, Signed by the Phils as a free agent in 2006.  Schoenberger hit .143 in 21 at bats in Lakewood and .228/.325/.327 in 101 AB’s in Williampsort with 1 HR and 9 RBI’s.  Schoenberger has not shown much is his third season with the organization, his first two with the GCL Phils.  He is still young and fairly versatile in the field.  It is simply a matter of how long the Phils will hang on.  It is extremely doubtful he will be a major league talent at any point.

Gulf COast Phils

Luis Paulino, Age 20, Signed by the Phils as a free agent in 2007. .201/.248/.342 in 149 AB’s.  2 HR and 15 RBI, .191 with RISP; .250 last month of the season.  15 errors (.860). Paulino’s numbers were not good at the plate or in the field although he did drive in some runs and show improvement towards the end of the season.  He still needs alot of work before he is ready for a move to even WIlliamsport.

Lendy Castillo, AGe 20, Signed as a free agent by the Phils in 2006; .179/.235/.218 in 79 AB’s.  0 HR and 7 RBI. 4 SB (6CS); .045 vs. LHP; .167 with RISP;  1 error (.970). Castillo also saw time at 2B and SS.  Castillo is simply not hitting enough to move forward.  He will need continued work in Extended Spring Training if the Phils choose to keep him in the organization.

62 thoughts on “Around the System (3B)

  1. I think that the Phils need to work on a package this offseason for a young guy who is a year out at 3B. Someone who would need a guy like Michael Taylor.

  2. Agree with Lump that the organization will need to trade for an heir apparent at 3b.

    Phuturephillies had a good idea about pursuing Alex Gordon a few months ago. Another possibility would be a Garrett Atkins, who has had a bad season, causing the Rockies to sour on him a bit.

    Both of those players will be a downgrade on defense but the position gets younger with more offensive potential.

  3. Really, when you come to think of it, the system’s major weakness is the infield (aside from catcher). Who do we look at in the infield (again, other than catcher) and say “yup, he’s a future major league starter in the infield.” Unless I’m missing something, I think the answer is there is no such person. From an organizational standpoint, that’s a pretty significant issue, although, we have to keep in mind that their outfield, catcher and pitching prospects are pretty darned good.

  4. Isn’t Chone Figgins going to be a free agent this offseason? My decision might be to pursue him. He is younger than Pedro, has a great glove, and maybe a little better bat. If we can’t find that great 3b prospect to aquire and use Pedro as a stopgap, then he might be the best option.

  5. Last year, at this time, I was hopeful for our 3B prospects. #1 pick (Hewitt) was playing and learning. Mattair was my big hope for the future. Overbeck had a great year with the bat. A year goes by and what do we have? Even if Hewitt and Overbeck turn things around, they aren’t 3B material. Mattair can play the position but when’s the bat going to kick (or should i say hit) in.

    Maybe there’s a rule 5 guy we can pick up.

  6. Agreed with above that the decision on Feliz is not so cut and dry. While a fine fielder, he is a terrible hitter, and the first person to say he has 80 RBIs gets my vote off the island. That being said, the solution isn’t coming from our system, unless through a trade. I’d look at the FAs available, as well as what’s available through trade. And even if Feliz is the best alternative, I think it a virtual certainty he’d come at less than 5 million on the open market, so I’d still decline the option and try to work out another deal, maybe 2yrs at 3 mil a pop.

    As a note on the player blurbs, I remember reading on a chat somewhere that the scouting community saw Mattair as a great defender, so while those percentage numbers are only ok, he apparently gets high marks from scouts.

  7. Don’t be suprised if the Phils acquire Garrett Atkins. He had a bad year or two, but, if he can turn it around, would be a huge plus as another right-handed slugger in the line-up. I think he’s worth a chance (and he’s also Utley’s old college buddy)

  8. Listen for next year and as long as we have these players in our infield we do not need anymore than what we are getting from Pedro. He has certainly been a pleasant surprise with the bat this year. He was hovering around .300 for a good part of the year at the plate and his defense is only second to maybe zimmerman and rolen in all of baseball in my opinion.

  9. “Organizational wasteland” is a pretty apt phrase — that’s been the case since the Phils shipped Rolen out of town back in 2002.

    The only thing I take exception to above is the knock on Mattair’s fielding. His error total may be a bit high, but the scouting reports on his glove are off-the-charts. Take this, from Scouting the Sally, for example:

    To put his defense into perspective, when tweeting Mattair was the best third baseman i’d seen this season, Kevin Goldstein from Baseball Prospectus replied to the effect of my being able to travel the entire country and not see a third baseman as good as Mattair defensively

    Now, he’s going to have to make huge strides offensively if he’s ever going to be thought of as a future major leaguer, but hey, anything’s possible.

    Finally, as far as the big league Phillies go… I don’t want to re-open the whole Alex Gordon can of worms, but that would be my preference. I’d stay away from Figgins, who will command a lot on the open market, and whose skill set will only deteriorate with age, and from Atkins, who’s a third baseman in name only (career -5.3 UZR/150). Maybe Adrian Beltre would sign a short-term, “prove it” deal coming off injury — but I agree, it’s just likely that Feliz’s option will be picked up.

  10. Now why would you vote 80 rbi’s off the island? 80 RBI’s in the 7 hole is a heck of an accomplishment, especially with only 12 home runs. Did you see who got the big hits in the last two games? Did you see who got big hits in the World series. At 5$K he is perfectly fine. Name more than 5 better 3rd basemen in the National League (Reynolds, Zimmerman, Wright, Chipper?, Rolen? Kung Fu Panda – who won’t stay there). If you decline his option, I guarantee you someone will offer him 6 million. Have you seen who plays 3rd base in the Major Leagues?
    I think we should get someone who is better than our current infield back up (my suggestion is Jeff Keppinger), but you keep Feliz for another year.

  11. last night on the broadcast they were comparing the stats of players hitting seventh in the lineup. Feliz’ numbers compared to other players batting seventh were the best in the league. So while he isn’t living up to the HR ecpectations, he is still driving in runs, hitting with RISP and saving runs with his glove. only a superstar would be an improvement over Pedro at third.

    I do agree with the people talking about trading for a top 3rd base prospect. I have been a big fan of Mattair, but love ain’t blind enough to not see him stagnating as a prospect. Gordon for Taylor would be a dream come true. Josh fields might be someone to look at with how the Chisox wheel and deal. JJ Hardy at third? Garrett Atkins shouldn’t be an option, too inconsistant and lack of a glove.

    Let me help out those guys who get down on Pedro Feliz. David Bell. There that should do the trick.

  12. I would be thrilled if they got Gordon. As for Atkins, even if he doesn’t always start, he’s a nice right-handed option off the bench. He’s intriguing and so is J.J. Hardy. The Phillies could probably get Hardy for a useful middle reliever or second tier minor league starter (Andrew Carpenter). That would be a very good chance to take.

  13. Great job as usual, Gregg, although the whole third base scenario could be summed up by the sound of crickets chirping.

    Echoing what Friar said, I remember the guy who writes for Scouting the Sally raving about Mattair, and saying that the Phillies need to make him a special project with regards his hitting, because his glove is something special.

    That being said, the organization needs help at third. With the glut of outfielders they have, a trade would make sense.

    – Jeff

  14. It’s hard to compare stats for hitters 7th in the order. Generally when a guy excels, he’ll get moved up in the order and then he’s no longer in the discussion.

    Free agents this year include Adrian Beltre, Hank Blalock, Joe Crede, Chone Figgins, Troy Glaus and Mark DeRosa. This team has stars so you just need an average player who won’t hurt you. And you only need one third baseman. I think organizational depth is overwrought a bit. You look to develop stars and overall depth, but you can’t afford to miss out on good players because you overdrafted on infielders. Look at the Rays last year. They accumulated talent, then worried about how it would fit on the field.

  15. Re-signing Feliz at that number is an absolute no-brainer. His offense alone justifies $5M. At #7 in the line-up he is plenty productive enough for this team. I don’t have any data, but his defense alone might justify $5M, too. Anyway, I’d do re-sign him in my sleep, and then try to extend him a couple years for similar numbers.

    As for Hewitt, I constantly remind myself to stop caring about where he was drafted. We always knew he needed time to develop. Leave him at 3B for at least another year. I must say I’m baffled by those that think changing his position now would help him (i.e. free him up mentally to concentrate on offense). He needs stability and patience to maximize his development/improvement.

  16. Look, Pedro Feliz is a nice player, and you can formulate an argument for exercising his option by saying that he’s an elite fielder, the free agent market isn’t very enticing, and it’s not worth surrendering prospects to get someone like Gordon or Atkins. But can we please not cite his RBI totals as justification that “only a superstar would be an improvement over Pedro”? Simply put, he’s a terrible hitter: he’s second to last among qualifying 3B in OPS this year, he’s got a career 84 OPS+, and his career OBP is .293. He’s serviceable enough given his glove and the production we get from the rest of the lineup, but there’s simply no way he’s a long-term solution at the hot corner.

    To bring this back on point… all that being said, it’s pretty clear that there isn’t an imminent replacement in the pipeline, and that’s an area the organization will have to address going forward.

  17. I reject the idea of trading Michael Taylor for Gordon. You can get another year out of Feliz and because we get power from other positions not usually associated with power it isn’t necessarily required to get a power hitting 3b.

  18. You show me another 7 hole hitter whose 5 guys in front of him get on base at about a 37% clip and I’ll show you another guy with 80 RBIs. Or more if he’s even a half-decent hitter.

    RBIs are situational fellas. Pedro’s rate stats are terrible. His defense is fine, sure, but so was David Bell’s. Where’s the love for him?

    We can do much better, and if there’s an opportunity, than we should. Obviously, whether there is an opportunity is the critical issue, but to say “because our other 3 infielders are so productive than we should be happy with Pedro” is just embracing mediocrity.

  19. David Bell’s defense was not fine. David Bell was not a good fielder, his arm was weak and inaccurate, he couldn’t make contact and when he did, he had no power, and he was slow. All this after taking steroids.

    name a 3rd baseman making less than 8 mil a year who is better than Feliz. Casey Blake maybe. you’ve seen pablo sandoval play defense? Chone Figgans can play third but he isn’t a third baseman. plus he is going to be a 10 mil guy next year. Other than those, your now talking Ryan Zimmerman, David Wright, Longoria type guys and they are superstars.

  20. Pedro Fe;iz has one of the worst bats of any guy to start a full season in the majors this year. the only thing that justifies him in this line up is his defense. Mike Hampton has been a better hitter than pedro this year, and that by a good amount. don’t give me batting average, and don’t give me batting average, don’t give me RsBI, don’t even start me on his clutch skills, because he stink at hitting. he stink at hitting on like a DarinErstrad level.

    that all beibg said, his defense is really, really good. its basically just Evan Longoria and Ryan Zimmerman who are better defenders than him.

  21. Re – I reject the idea of trading Michael Taylor for Gordon. You can get another year out of Feliz and because we get power from other positions not usually associated with power it isn’t necessarily required to get a power hitting 3b.

    Taylor for Gordon in concept makes sense. You need to trade top prospects to get one. Just because Gordon has underperformed so far does not mean that he will not get better. Plus, Taylor plays at a position of strength for the Phillies. Even if Ibanez gets hurt next year we might have Domonic Brown ready by the All Star break. Plus we still have Mayberry lurking around as insurance.

  22. they have got to move hewitt around some most of his errors were throwing or catching on steals u can tell he was a ss before i wonder wat he would look like there again

  23. although they have so much hope for him at third they are keeping him in wmsprt to work on his defense

  24. im not sure wat they c in hewitt but they say he could be a big superstar soon they got to work on his consistancy at the plate still a great improvement from 08

  25. David Bell’s defense was not fine. David Bell was not a good fielder…

    There’s no surefire way to judge defense, but UZR is probably the best tool we have readily available. Here are Bell’s and Feliz’s respective numbers as Phillies…

    2003 Bell: 6.9 UZR/150
    2004 Bell: 10.1 UZR/150
    2005 Bell: 14.2 UZR/150
    2006 Bell (w/ PHI): -1.9 UZR/150

    2008 Feliz: 9.3 UZR/150
    2009 Feliz: 4.3 UZR/150

    I don’t really see a huge difference — so if Bell wasn’t a good fielder, then I guess Pedro isn’t either. And for what it’s worth, here are their batting lines as Phillies…

    Bell*: .258/.330/.386 (84 OPS+)
    Feliz: .259/.307/.394 (81 OPS+)

    *This includes 180 at bats Bell had for the Brewers in 2006 after the Phils dealt him, but it doesn’t really change the outcome.

    name a 3rd baseman making less than 8 mil a year who is better than Feliz.

    Guys making less than $8 million in 2009 who I’d rather have playing third base for the Phillies: Evan Longoria, Ryan Zimmerman, David Wright, Kevin Youkilis, Gordon Beckham, Chone Figgins, Pablo Sandoval, Mark Reynolds, Andy LaRoche, Casey Blake, and Mark DeRosa. Those are just the obvious ones, too; it wouldn’t be hard to make an argument for Jorge Cantu, Mike Lowell, Kevin Kouzmanoff, or Ian Stewart, either.

    It’s just funny how a championship can color one’s perception. Feliz is fine if you’re okay with a Latino David Bell clone, and given the lack of alternatives in the system, it wouldn’t be egregious to stick with him for one more year. But let’s not get carried away here — it’s a position the Phillies seriously need to address going forward, and I think it would be a good idea if they start by investing some draft picks in infielders.

  26. OFF THE ISLAND The next one who wants to trade Taylor.
    He is needed to platoon with Raul who -get this- will be older next year. (Raul 5 days Taylor 2 with T coming in late innings to rest Raul)
    I was the biggest Feliz detractor last year but he has played well this year. Having said that some said he alternate.
    80% for resigning.

  27. Trying to stay away from the major league argument, it’s absolutely imperative that the Phils start targeting all four infield spots from the draft. Until then, and this goes back to the argument of Brown vs. Taylor, but I’d rather see them deal Brown for a guy like Josh Vitters. Maybe we could scrape something else out of the deal because BA’s latest top 25 listed Brown way ahead of Vitters. I anticipate Vitters will start the year in A-adv then jump to Reading at some point at age 20 (21 in late August).

    This would still leave us with Mayberry as a reserve, Taylor to come in for Ibanez and be another righty bat, then Gose, Susdorf, Castro, etc etc at the lower levels. I understand it seems more logical to deal Taylor because he’s currently blocked, but I’m stubbornly more in love with MT.

  28. I know Pedro isnt the best hitting 3B but here are his splits when it deals with runners on

    Runners On: .328/.484/.853 (team average .266/.457/.811)
    RISP: .336/.482/.866 (team average .254/.359/.799)
    RISP 2/out: .310/.483/.858 (team average .214/.379/.728)
    Bases Loaded: .333/.619/.952

    Among regular 3B his runners on line is 4th in average, middle of the road in OPS
    Among regular 3B depending on how many ABs you will consider he is btwn 4th and 8th in average for RISP as well and has the 5th most RBIs in that catergory behind only Longoria, Peralta, Kouzmanoff and Zimmerman
    RISP 2/OUT – top ten in the majors in average

    Basically what I am saying is that he isnt the best 3B in the league but he is not as bad some of you are making him sound like. He is a plus defender and this year has been great when it comes to runners on base. What I am saying is that with our offense we can afford to have at least one more year of him and instead of spending money or trading for a 3B prospect like Alex Gordon we should def shore up our bull pen for next year and spend money there.

    Also among 3B who bat 7th Feliz has by far the most ABs but also has the most HRs and RBIs in that category. Also among all players that have batted 7th, he has the most RBIs by a long shot and his HRs are 2nd. So has done a good job as a 7th hitter.

  29. .262 .310 .438
    .254 .293 .423

    can we all agree those two stat lines are pretty much the same? First is Pedro Feliz with RISP, the next is his career line.

    Clutch is not a skill, Clutch is not a skill, Clutch is not a skill. Repeat ad nauseum.

    As anyone who played it would know, baseball is hard enough as it is; nobody walks up to the plate in any situation without doing everything in their power to put a good swing on the ball, get the good part of the bat on it, etc. To think that with RISP, some sort of mental/chemical/physiological balance (or imbalance as it where) differentiates some players from others is just hocus-pocus. If anything, I could see some players squeezing the bat a bit in “pressure” situations, leading to a decrease in performance. So maybe there is a skill in not getting worse. That would be my anecdotal take on it.

    Fortunately, all statistical analysis I’ve ever read more or less supports that conclusion.

  30. There is no immediate help coming from the farm at third base. Mattair, if he can hit, is still 4 years away at least.
    Nobody else is close. Cervenak, Tiffee and Sellers look like emergency help only.
    Re-signing Feliz for one more year is a no-brainer but I would look at Mark Teahen of the Royals as a trade target because he hits well, (.271 avg. decent power) bats left-handed and can also play the outfield. He’s only 28 and at the least would be an upgrade over Greg Dobbs.
    He also sends Matt Stairs into retirement before taking over for Feliz in 2011.

  31. Longoria – superstar
    Zimmerman – star, makes 11 mil next year
    Wright – star and makes 10 mil next year
    Youk is a first baseman
    beckham is one but wait til he hits arb. and see his salary
    Figgins is looking at 10 mil next year
    Sandoval – fluke year and stone hands
    Mark Reynolds – 200+/yr strikeouts and horrible on defense
    Andy Laroche comparable player
    Derosa part time player until this year
    Cantu… if we had him you’d be asking who we could replace him with.
    Mike lowell is old and broken and expensive and the reason why Youk isn’t playing first base.
    Kouz – this is his first year out of three he is producing 1 out of 3.
    Ian stewart is a converted catcher… didn’t Ruiz play third last year?

    stars and flukes and horrible defenders. It’s amazing how much in love people are with homeruns. They ignore 80 rbi because a guy hasn’t hit 10 more HR’s in a year. our team has hit the most homeruns in the league and people are disappointed in the 3rd baseman who didn’t hit 20 this year. Our leadoff hitter has 20 dingers but we needed 10 more from our 7th hitter to really do something.

    And if you think comparable defensive statistics make Bell’s defense comparable to Feliz’ defense than you are ignoring the eye test, meaning when you watch, it is obvious who is a better defender.

  32. Clutch is not a skill, clutch is not a skill…

    Thank you Keith Law… by the way what team are you working for now?

    Clutch is a state of mind. It comes out of consistency. If you are a consistant player – and Feliz’s year, while not as exciting as Utley, Howard, etc… has been fairly steady – you will perform when the games on the line.
    There is clutch or else Bobby Abreu would still be here.
    And the guy who thinks Philadelphia brand David Bell is equal to Pedro Feliz in the field… did you see any games back then?

  33. So if a guy has a .698 OPS but does it consistantly, it’s a point in his favor? I’m sorry, but the guy’s OBP in both August and September was .257. There is no amount of “clutch hitting” that can sugarcoat that into something positive.

  34. I say it often, but I would take Kouzmanoff over Pedro. More power, younger, just as good if not better now than Feliz at 3B.

  35. Clutch is not a skill, Clutch is not a skill, Clutch is not a skill. Repeat ad nauseum… all statistical analysis I’ve ever read more or less supports that conclusion.

    Thank you. For anyone who disagrees, please read this.

    Phil, you’re entirely too hung up on Feliz’s RBI numbers. And if you think I care about his home run total, you’ve got me all wrong — I’d be fine if he didn’t hit a single dinger this year if he got on base more than 31% of the time. He’s plain and simply not a good hitter, and anyone who can’t see that is being hoodwinked by things like batting average and RBI totals.

    Sorry for my part in steering this thread off a cliff. As I said before, I think the very fact that we’re having such a strenuous debate over the merits of Pedro Feliz shows just how desperate we are for a truly good third baseman to come through the pipeline. There look to be some interesting candidates in the early literature on next year’s draft, so maybe the organization will take the opportunity to inject some fresh blood into the system.

  36. What about pursuing Brandon Wood of the Angels? He has posted solid power numbers in the minors for the last few years and yet the big league team doesn’t seem to have any room for him. He’s still young and very athletic (also plays short stop). His one flaw has been his propensity to strike out but he has made strides in that area the last few years.

  37. is it the job of the 7th hitter in the lineup to get on base for the 8th and 9th hitters to drive them in? 7 hole hitters only job is to knock in runs by any means possible. sac fly, fielders choice, walk, hit, error. if the 7th hitter lets guys in scoring position on, he either has the final two outs behind him or ruiz gets walked so the pitcher can end the inning. how many times does feliz get on base by himself and you say to yourself ‘looks like we might score some runs here’ not many. how many times is feliz up with a guy on 3rd and less than 2 out and you just want him to make contact and get that guy in? a lot. friar i respect your opinions, this might be one we disagree on in the end.

    kouz and beckham, sure i d like to have them but not at what it would cost to get them. we’ve won with feliz, he does his job well at a reasonable price. its those type of players that make a difference. the mets have stars but not the 2nd level guys who are good at a decent price.

    we will need to replace feliz after next year tho. we dont have prospects making any headway. a trade of taylor for a top 3rd base prospect is very logical if possible. we need to focus on the infield in the next draft or two to balance the farm a bit.

  38. Just wanted to make a quick mention about Mattair as I saw him play around 90 games this season…

    AWESOME glove…it’s true, hes a spectacular defender, no question. His high error total is kinda attributed to streaks, he will go a while without making an error, with a number of dazzling plays, and then make 3 in 2 games. However, it’s surely true how special his glove and arm are..

    Also, just one of the best kids the Phillies have, amazing work ethic and personality, EVERYONE wants to see Travis succeed because of how great a person he is…best of luck to Moose.

  39. just one more thing, how many times do you think feliiz alters his approach to put the ball in play to drive in a run instead of working a walk or a hit? i’d swing at a ball to make an out but score a run so ruiz and the pitcher dont have to do it. enough to take 10 or 15 points of his average? maybe.

  40. hey phil, here is your list of other third baseman.

    Longoria – is better than feliz
    Zimmerman – is better than feliz
    Wright – is better than feliz
    Youk is a first baseman, and still better than Feliz
    beckham is way better than feliz
    Figgins is looking at 10 mil next year, but is also way better than feliz
    Sandoval – fluke year and stone hands, but is better than feliz. Also not a fluke year.
    Mark Reynolds – 200+/yr strikeouts, actually plays average defense (errors are meaningless. really, they are.) has hit 40 some homeruns, and gets on base way, way more than feliz does despite the strikouts, which are not all that bad.
    Andy Laroche is not a comprable player. he is way better. (OPS+ is 97 this year. pedro wishes he was that close to average.)
    Derosa part time player until this year, but is way better than feliz
    Cantu… if we had him you’d be asking who we could replace him with.- but we would not be saying to replace him with feliz, cause feliz is terrible at hitting.
    Mike lowell is old and broken and expensive and the reason why Youk isn’t playing first base, but is still way better than feliz
    Kouz – is better than feliz.
    Ian stewart is a converted catcher. . . who is better than pedro feliz.

    so, really, your list just shows that feliz would rank as the 15th best first baseman on you list of 14.

    also, as for your “eye test” of defense, Ryan howard, Mark reynolds, and youk are average fielders. haave been their whole careers. I bet you think that derek jeter is a good fielder too. (he is one of the worst defensive shortstops in baseball, period.)

    If you’re going to be stupid, and trust your eyes over stats, then you should really, well, i don’t know, stop being stupid.

  41. I would like the phillies to pursue Figgins. He is a high obp player and could bat lead off than we could move Rollins down to sixth or seventh in the lineup. A. Ramirez and ARod are also superior third baseman. What happens if Sellers repeats his numbers at triple A, does he become a possibilty for 2011 if they choose to keep Feliz for another season?

  42. I’ll let the stupid comment go jpd.

    The original argument wasn’t about finding someone better than feliz. yes I know most/some of those guys are better than feliz, the point is finding someone at a reasonable price. It would be an easy desicion to sign alex rodriguez for 30 million a year, but we are not the yankees and can’t sign superstars at every position.

    The point is who can the phillies sign or trade for THIS OFFSEASON, who will be as cheap as Feliz and gives us the same or better production. That is the argument… value.

    It’s easy to name better hitting 3rd baseman than Pedro but actually acquiring one is a different story.

    And in the end do we really need to? Explain to me why we need a better hitting third baseman. If Pedro was a better hitter last year would we have won the galactic series too. Would we have won the central division too this year if Pedro’s average was 25 points higher?

    The team only has so much money to spend, there are going to be positions were you have to get good production for less money so you can pay the superstars.

    But please keep telling that Ryan Zimmerman is better than Feliz cause I really didn’t know that. When you’re done with that why don’t you tell me how we can sign one of those guys for less than 8 or 10 million so we can also keep Blanton and Victorino or trade for one of them without giving up one of our starting 8 and crippling the farm.

    and the eye test was regarding Bell’s defense with the Phillies compared to Feliz’ defense with the Phillies. Do you think Bell’s defense was as good as Feliz’ is? How many times did someone come in as a defensive replacement for Feliz. How many times did that happen with Bell.

  43. when you are defending David Bell and bashing Pedro Feliz, it’s probably a good time to start re-evaluating how you access the talent of a baseball player.

  44. I am still holding out hope that Mattair will blossom as a hitter. If not, they might milf another year or 2 out of Pedron, then move Rollins to third and play Galvis at short.

  45. Me too Marc. The trio of Mattair, D’Arnaud, and Sampson really got me with their potential. I thought they were going to be mid round successes. There is still time for Mattair and Sampson to turn it around. And one of three is still pretty good in the end if the other 2 don’t pan out.

    I’ve seen Galvis play a couple times and two things stuck out. the first is how good he is on defense. the second is how tiny he is.

    Mattair and Galvis on the left side really did lock down that side defensively.

  46. Phil:

    There is still a lot of time—it just takes some players longer for the nickle to drop. The big club is covered for the next year or 2 with Feliz.

  47. Feliz is an okay option provided that the rest of the team continues to hit. I still like the idea of acquiring Hardy or Atkins if they can do so on the cheap (I don’t know their contract situations, however). That would be nice insurance.

  48. Catch, I think Hardy would welcome any way out of Milwaukee he could find. That demotion to save service time really seemed to aggrevate him. Can’t blame him either. I don’t know if he would start here, but I’m sure he could outplay Bruntlett until we let Feliz walk. the question is what the crew would take for him. did they demote him to get more value in a trade or to save themselves some money down the road. Would kendrick or Carpenter be enough to get him?

    I’ll tell you, I was an ardent Arbuckle supporter for GM but Amaro has changed my mind and earned my trust in building the roster. Let’s hope Proefrock and the boys in scouting and development can get me on board with next years draft. I think they can draft talent, I just question if they can draft needs, and we all know infield is becoming a need in the next few years.

  49. And a little more on Mattair. Gregg’s write up says he’ll be 21 in december which means he was 20 this year, his second at Lakewood. In Hewitt’s write up it says he’ll be at an age appropriate league in williamsport as a 20 year old next year. That means Mattair has been at an advanced league for a 19 and 20 year old the past 2 years in Lakewood.

    I agree a change of scenery in Clearwater is the right thing for him, but he will still be young for his league with plenty of time to let his work ethic and good coaching improve his game.

  50. Feliz does grow on you. He really is a great fielder, he appears to be a very solid teammate and he hits with men in scoring position – not a small thing for a team that leaves gobs of men on base. He’s no star or even a very good player (you could have a reasonable debate on whether he is a “good player” but I’ll let others argue about that), but let’s face it, he’s been far more important to this team than anyone guessed he would be a couple of years ago. Some of it is just being in the right place at the right time, but much of it is Pedro. He is what he is and what he is ain’t all that bad. He’s no David Wright or Mark Reynolds (or maybe even Andy LaRoche), but, at this point, he has earned my respect.

  51. Considering the posted topic: “Organizational wasteland” is completely appropriate. If Mattair was not a high round pick he would not have much of a future. Defensive 3B do not last long.

    I agree with Phil. Feliz seems a good fit for this team on the value scale. He is a known quantity, unlike trying some young guy or part time guy. On a team that cannot drive in a runner from 3rd with less than 2 out, I really do not need more guys who can walk or strike out. If you want a terrible hitter just look at the bench: Bruntlett, Bako, etc… Is Dobbs a good or bad hitter?

    Any new player adds a risk on how they will perform. 3B will have to stay ‘cheap’ so whatever option is used it will have to be unproven talent at best.

  52. Don’t overthink this. Feliz for $5M is a nice value and I agree they need to trade something to get a third basemen for the future. However, I don’t consider either Taylor or Brown as tradeable because I think they’ll both be in the lineup in 2 -3 years. The Phils do have an excess of pitching though.

  53. Gotta agree with Phillyfriar about HRs. It seemed to be the less Feliz for power the better he was. But you know me I say silly things like “too many innings for Knapp”

  54. pedro is a good fit for the team. I just think that praising anything but his defense is just a little bit. . . dumb. I know that we can’t spend money all over the place. but with low OBP guys like Rollins, Howard, ibanez, and Feliz in the line up, plus Ruiz (who is having a very good offensive year, actually has an average OBP but i think that that is a fluke). we could use a guy who gets on base more in any one of those places.

  55. Pedro is what he is, as has been said here.

    And what is that?

    1. Very good to borderline stellar defense.
    2. Passable hitter for #7 hole when he is going well (first half of 2009).
    3. Subpar hitter when he struggles (secondhalf of 2009).
    4. Can drive the ball on certain nights and against certain pitchers, so will be a game winner for youseveral nights a year.
    5. Very good teammate, it appears. Fits in well.
    6. Phils value tight IF defense around the horn. He solidies the infield defense, which makes our pitching staff significantly better. Consistently minimizing opposition outs in an inning is crucial. He, Jimmy, Chase and even Ryan do that this year.

    Agree a no brainer to do the option. As long as they are getting offense elsewhere, I would do it year to year until they can get a good fielder who hits well.

  56. jpd, we could use a guy with a higher obp in place of Ryan Howard? We could use a guy with a higher obp in place of Jimmy Rollins?

    Are you aware that these two guys have won MVP awards recently?

  57. Would not think of trading taylor for Gordon. One of the stranger things i’ve seen suggested hear.

    If the Phils could sign Chone Figgins for 7mil per for 3 years, I would cut Feliz ASAP. Sadly, I think the White Sox will over bid for Figgins, so Pedro Feliz get’s his option picked up.

  58. I’d like to see the Phils try to pry away a 3B prospect from another team that may have a solid prospect blocked at the Major League level. Like Neil Walker of the Pirates. His stock is down, he’s blocked by Andy LaRoche and Pedro Alvarez(their top prospect) is breathing down his neck(AA).

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