Due to flipping around, I only caught the first few innings of the game and I missed Golson’s time in the spotlight, so I figured I’d just post the thoughts of others who saw the game. If you find more accounts/summaries of the game, post them in the comments and I’ll add them here. Click below
Greg Golson. You could actually see his trade value collapsing during the game. Golson has had the best season of his professional life, fooling some people into seeing him as a prospect. He’s not. He swings at everything, he’s an awkward outfielder and he doesn’t do anything else well enough to make up for those traits. The Phillies have about nine minutes to turn him into something of value, because by the end of the season, he’ll have been exposed again.
Carlos Carrasco. The best starting-pitcher prospect I saw, Carrasco threw fastballs at 90-93 and changeups about 10 mph slower, eschewing any breaking balls. He’s been rumored to be trade bait for the Phillies, who need starting pitching help. I’m not sure that Carrasco is much worse than the kinds of pitchers you can get back for him.
Joe Sheehan is a decent writer when he’s writing about things he really knows. Here, I think he’s a bit out of his element. Golson has been on the DL, and while he didn’t hit 2 HR or jump over the fence to rob a HR, did he really extinguish his prospect status playing a few innings in an exhibition game? I’m a huge Golson skeptic, but come on. Dude’s been hurt for weeks and is coming back. Everyone knows he has suspect plate discipline, but did we really learn anything from this game? Conversely, Carrasco’s velocity was down, I saw a lot of 90-92, and he’s got more in the tank, or at least he’s been in the 92-95 range a lot more than today. I’m glad Joe was impressed, but I think Carlos has a lot more than what he showed today.
Keith Law, “10 guys who impressed”
Jason Donald, SS, Philadelphia. Donald could probably play shortstop every day for somebody in 2009, and certainly could handle second base. He’s not going to hit for power, but has a good approach and squares balls up well. He has an average arm, which might be stretched on plays to his right at short, but handles the 4-6-3 double play very well.
but our other three prospects showed up under “disappointing”
A handful of players didn’t live up to advance billing. Lou Marson was fine behind the plate, but didn’t square balls up and repeatedly hit balls on the ground, even in BP. … Regular-season teammate Greg Golson showed again that his approach at the plate is atrocious, with a very long swing and poor pitch recognition, and he had two very bad reads in left field during the game.
//
Carlos Carrasco was 90-94, throwing slightly across his body with poor command, and he didn’t throw a breaking ball in his inning of work. He did come out of a July 1 start after two warm-up pitches, complaining of shoulder soreness.
Phuture Phillies 
I think, in a game like this, you are going to learn a lot more about pitchers than you will learn about hitters. I was mildly disappointed in what I saw in Carrasco. I’m a little sick and tired of Phils’ righty pitching prospects who do not regularly hit 94-96 on the gun. Today, at least, Carrasco looked okay, no more or less. Good movement, mediocre velocity and subpard command (he might be nervous, so it’s really hard to draw conclusions about command). He looked like another standard 3 or 4 man in an average 5 man rotation – the type of right handed mediocrity that the Phillies have been giving us for the last 40 years (seriously, name the last Phillies right handed prospect, starter or reliever, who became a stud – I think you have to go back to Fergie Jenkins to do that (Marty Bystrom and Dick Ruthven don’t count – neither guy was a stud) – that track record is utterly atrocious my friends – hopefully, recent high velocity draft picks will change that). Now, I’m not saying that he won’t turn out to be a lot more than just an okay starter, but that’s what he showed today.
I did not see enough of the game to take a look a Marson, Golson or Donald, but I think it’s just a huge mistake to look at a hitter over anything else than a couple of months to get an idea of what he’s capable of (even Chase Utley has streches where he looks terrible). That having been said, I think Marson and Donald are going to be playing major league ball for somebody very soon. As for Golson, who knows, but it makes you worry a little bit about new “toolshed” Anthony Hewitt, doesn’t it?
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I missed the last few innings so I didn’t see the defensive miscues others alluded to, but for Sheehan to call Golson “an awkward outfielder” is a surprise. Most scouts say that Golson would be an above-average MLB center fielder right now, so I’m sure that any so-called “awkwardness” can be attributed to his coming off an injury and playing a relatively unfamiliar position (left field).
Non-Phillies related note: man those A’s pitchers (Anderson and Cahill) look like something, huh? It’s amazing what kind of pitchers you produce when you value guys with great command over errant flamethrowers.
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For what its worth, Carrasco’s velocity was closer to the mid 90’s in last years game. I think his lower velocity today can be attributed to his recent shoulder soreness. Then again, he kind of has a history of these kinds of velocity fluctuations- usually always works 90-92, but will bump it to 95 when he wants.
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For a team thats doesn’t have any “prospects” and is “subpar as a minor league system as a whole” it’s strange that the phillies keep putting players in the futures game.
Hope we don’t trade Marson and Carrasco should be with the phillies no later then September.
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yeah i don’t see how you get much of a read from hitting prospects during the future games, i don’t think you get enough at bats to justify anything.
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Golson struck out on 3 offspeed pitches on his first at bat. He looked like a guy who can’t hit slow stuff. But, you can’t take away a guy’s prospect status on two abs at an all-star game, thats just ridiculous.
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from Jason Grey at ESPN about Lou Marson:
Lou Marson of the Phillies also has the arm and receiving skills to stay at the position, and he’s hitting .321 with a .442 on-base percentage and more walks than strikeouts at Double-A. Marson has only four homers and not a lot of doubles, and the lack of loft in his swing suggests that power is always going to be elusive, but I’d say he ranks third among catching prospects in the minors right now.
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Never get too high and never get to low over one game and a all star game if that. The fact that we had 4 guys there and a fifth that would have been there if he wasn’t hurt in Bastardo tells you that the system is much better off than its made out to be. I have season tickets to the Reading Phillies and also like t go up to see the Pigs play. So I see these guys play much more than Sheehan and Law (who is a Philly hater BTW).
The Phillies have prospects and prospects that other teams covet. Been saying that all year. Marson, Carassco, Donald and Golson are all A type prospects add in Bastardo to that mix from AA. Then you have some B type prospects there like Josh Outman, Pat Overholt and to lesser extends Brad Harman. They have more than enough to get what they need at the major league level. Donald, Golson and Outman are the ones being shopped Carassco and Marson are being held onto and all of that makes sense. We need a catcher and we need more pitching. Carasso and Marson won’t be ready this year but they should both make the team out of spring training next year
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Hey Keith – Carrasco started an All Star game and struck out two in one hitless inning after coming off of a minor injury. i mean…come on.
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Note that all the hitters took BP before the game, allowing scouts more insight into their approach and swing than just two ABs. I think scouts got to see enough from each player to form opinions.
I agree with PhillyFriar that this is the first time I’ve seen someone criticize Golson’s fielding, but both Sheehan and Law are consistent with others in their criticisms of his approach at the plate. Those criticisms are borne out in his minor league stats. The Phils’ scouting department consistently shows preference for young players with tools, and sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn’t. I’m no more nervous or excited for Hewitt than I was for Golson,
Rollins or Jeff Jackson. Over time we will see if those tools translate into baseball skills.
I think that’s the distinction that Keith Law makes – he values baseball skills, not tools. That’s not right or wrong, that just seems to be his M.O. I read all his stuff and do not think he is a Phils hater. He is equally critical of every team’s prospects! He calls it like he sees it and seems to enjoy tweaking fans at times. I think that makes him a successful writer just like the highest-rated talk radio hosts are the most opinionated and controversial.
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Carrasco’s stuff was down yesterday. It might be because of short rest though, so I don’t really think KLaw was out of line saying that Carrasco wasn’t all that impressive. His velo was 89-91 and he didn’t throw a single curveball. Clearly it was a 1 inning effort, and Keith has been complimentary of him before.
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JimBob, I have to disagree with some of the things you said. I do not think Law hates the Phillies, I think Law has a very unbiased view of the Phillies and the 31 other ballclubs. He usually speaks whatever he feels, good or bad, about a player. I appreciate this much more than listening to talking heads spew gross generalities about players they have never seen. Also, I disagree that Golson is an A prospect. Before this season, most were not even considering him a prospect. So, I think he is more in the C prospect range, as this season seems like it is a fluke. If he can keep it up for another season or two with his plate discipline, then great, I will have been proven wrong. Not only do I disagree about Golson, but also Overholt and Harman. Overholt is a 24 year old reliever in AA with a 4.15 era, 1.3 whip, and 28 walks in 47.2 innings of work. I feel he is a fringe prospect at best, much like Golson. Harman is once again struggling. When looking at his track record, he has only ever had short periods of success. He hit .303 in his rookie season at Lakewood, and since then has had two hot months, both coming back to back in the second half of last year. I think Harman is quickly become meaningless in terms of prospect status, as I do not think he would be valued at all in any trade of consequence. In my opinion, this is how the Reading roster breaks down: Marson – A, Carrasco – A-, Donald – A-, Bastardo – A-/B+, Slayden – B, Outman – B, Garcia – B, Brummett – B-, Golson – C, Castro – C, Harman – D+. Finally, Durbin has value, but I am not sure whether to consider him a prospect at this point or not. I have to give him credit, he is pitching very well for Reading, albeit he is obviously old and experienced for the level. All in all, I love the Reading roster and think it is rather prospect laden. I just think we disagree on who the prospects are, JimBob.
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I don’t think Law is biased. As others have said, he values skills a little more highly than others. With Golson in AA there is a little more expectation that he would improve his approach. In Golson’s favor he has not played much recently. I do not think it is a problem to say that he probably needs a year in AAA next year. As for prospect status, he is clearly back in our top 10, but is not a can’t miss A-level prospect. Marson has passed him clearly, though he may need that year in AAA also.
It is interesting that Law is warming to Donald. I think when he did his Q&A here he was very skeptical about him, especially his defense. Now he is seen as a passable starting SS. For me, I would feel very good with him in the utility role next year instead of Bruntlett. I think Donald looks like a solid .280-.300 hitter in the majors with occasional power. Our backup middle infielder does lots of pinch hitting, and I’d rather have an offensive guy than a purely defensive guy in the role.
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I just find it funny when people accuse guys like this of bias. He works for ESPN (Scouts Inc), why would he have an incentive to be biased? ESPN is trying to court new readers (subscribers), so what would he have to gain by purposefully alienating a team’s fanbase? He’s seen Golson more than once, and his evaluation hasn’t changed, I think thats fair.
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I don’t see how Gacia is rated a lesser prospect than Donald and Bastardo and on a par with Slayden. The kid is in AA at age 20. Allowance needs to be made for his young age, just as demerits need to be assigned for Slayden’s elevated age and defensive deficiencies. Slayden will be 26 by the end of the month. Admittedly, he has been massively horsed around and promoted slowly because the Phillies have not been enamoured of his defensive, but that still is old to make him a B prospect in AA. Golson is a more consistent hitter, but is only 22 and a far better defender and speedy, so hard to see Golson as a C and Slayden as a B. We think of Bastardo as the latest Latino pitching prospect, but he is two years older than Garcia and less projectible and has a better track record. Bastardo is short at 5′-11″.
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To make inferences about Golson’s defensive abilities while playing left field (unfamiliar position) in an unfamiliar stadium is
laughable at best and pernicious at worst . There is such a thing as responsible journalism.
This site by the way impresses me for its civility and fairness .
My compliments.
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neduolcaz, How many games have you seen these guys play at Reading? Just a basic question. I have season tickets I have watched these guys from day one. I have watched their ups and downs. I am telling that this is the best bunch of prospects this team has had in Reading in years.
The problem I have with Law is he is a sloppy journist especially when it comes to the Phillies. There is probably a reason for that. The reason why is a guy like Law gets his information from scouts (since he can’t see all minor league games), there is probably something there between the Phillies and him that has caused him to pee on their parade all the time.
Two things right off the bat that Law’s credibility should be called into question
Watch Carrasco’s throw in a game, his motion wasn’t any different in the futures game than it has been all year.
Greg Golson is not a left fielder he has played centerfield all year so sure maybe he didn’t look comfortable there. But how many player would? Its sloppy journlism at best
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I agree, the fact that he called Golson akward but never brought up the fact he wasn’t playing his normal position is crazy… At the very least you have to mention that in an article where you are completely burying Greg Golson….
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JimBob I can’t agree with you about him playing left field. He should be able to play any outfield position. You know a lot more about the reading players than we do. I just don’t buy the left,right ,center thing its the outfield. He just had a bad game. As far as Carrasco he has some movement on this stuff, the speed of 91 or 93 is good enough if you have movement did you see yesterday game with webb.Grear command,great changeup.fastball around eighty nine or ninety one and he was great, So if carrasco has command and good movemnt the speed he showed is enough.
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JimBob, I have seen 6 games so far this year. I think it is great that you get to see all the games, and I am sure that allows you to have a unique perspective on the players. I said in my post that the Reading team is prospect laden, so I think we agree there. I just think we disagree about the values of some of those prospects, which is fine and well. If no one disagreed about a prospect’s status, than baseball wouldn’t be nearly as fun as it is. What I completely disagree with you on is Law. I do not want to have to keep defending him, but I think you have this image of who he is in your head, and that is all you will ever see him for. Law routinely says how most of his comments are based off of both other scouts observations, and most importantly his own observations as well. He rarely gives his opinion on a player without seeing him first. Also, on the rare occasions that he does talk about a player he hasn’t seen, he always mentions that very fact in his response. As others have said, what does Law or ESPN have to gain by being biased against one team or another. It makes zero sense. Law is rather cut and dry, he doesn’t mince words and that can come across as hateful and biased. It is obvious that you are a huge fan of the Phillies and their minor league affiliates, this attachment leads me to believe that it is you who are being biased towards our prospects rather than Law being biased against our prospects. But that is OK, all fans have their personal favorites and look through rose-colored glasses every once in a while. It is hard to be both a fan and subjective. I know I am not entirely subjective on all Phillies related matters, even though I try to be.
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I still don’t see Bastardo as anything more than a long-shot prospect right now. Golson still has to prove he can take a walk or hit a breaking ball, Donald, Marson and Carrasco look to be legit prospects though with the latter 2 having more upside.
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I watched the whole game yesterday (albeit on tape). I thought Carrasco threw the ball ok and probably better than ok if you consider that he just came back from a shoulder injury. Donald threw away a 4-6-3 double play that gave the World team an unearned run in the 1st inning. His arm did not look strong but he made all the routine plays and looked like a player. His arm is certainly stronger than Jay Bell’s or David Eckstein’s. Donald batted twice. His first at bat looked weak hitting a soft grounder on the right side but hit a solid single threw the ss/3B hole his next time up. Marson caught 3 innings looking good behind the plate but no one tried to steal while he was in the game. His one at bat produced a weak grounder on the right side. Golson was without a doubt the worst. He batted twice striking out both times. It didn’t look like he could recognize the pitches. He swung early on breaking balls striking out the first time and then he swung late, way behind 97 mph fastballs his second time up, as it looked like he was looking for breaking balls. Playing leftfield, and I don’t recall whether he ever played LF before, he had 2 balls fall in front of him that looked to me like he could have caught both had he gotten great jumps with the great speed he has. He just didn’t look comfortable and it could have been for the obvious reasons: he struck out badly before he even took the field, he’s unfamiliar with LF, he’s been out for a month until just the other day. Bottom line to me was this: Donald looked pretty good which helped his trade value, Carrasco and Marson aren’t getting traded so it didn’t matter (although I agree that Marson isn’t ready for the big club this year), and Golson is still the subject of much debate as to whether he’ll ever break through.
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FYI, Goldstein has his observations up as well. Nothing too encouraging from him, though he seemed to take his cynical writing style to new extremes, like he was put-upon to even be covering the futures game… so I won’t put much weight on that column.
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Golson has been called an A prospect and a C prospect, both here and in other places. He has done enough this year to demonstrate that at least some of his potential is bearing fruit. Improving production at the AA level over your previous years at lower levels, at a young age, is nothing to take lightly. The C rating here is an exaggeration. Is there still doubt about his ability to hit and get onbase in majors? Clearly. Is there reason to think SOME of that potential will bear fruit? Clearly. Let’s just call him what he is. A physical specimen who has significant upside and downside. Call him a B prospect if you want.
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Just reading MLB.COM. stellar performance by carrasco,was the line by the writer. Do think he saw the game.
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scouting a player that plays a 1/3rd of a game or pitches 1 inning is just plain ignorant. it is a meaningless exhibition. first, most good pitchers get better as the game wears on. second, players are out of position and often over try to impress by swinging for the fences to show off. the point of this game is to honor top prospects and to give them a taste of the bigs. it is also a marketing ploy by mlb to get some excitement around a new generation of starts. it sells jerseys when they come up. that’s it.
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stars (not starts)
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just heard on ip that the phils and jays are basically agreed on a deal of carrasco for burnett straight up. the hold up is burnett,s last 2 years. with my luck nothing will happen but i am going to church right now to pray it does.
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john i hope not. I was honestly hoping of giving up less than Carrasco considering he’s a rental most likely. If i had the two to give up him or Donald, i’d choose Donald because its easier to find a top SS than a top SP and we’ve already got Jimmy at SS for several more years to come.
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god, remember when we thought GIO and Carrasco were going to be in the rotation in 09!?? those were the days….
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The Phils are on Burnett’s no trade list. Not too mention various sources have said the Phillies won’t talk about Carrasco or Marson in any Burnett deal. The only prospects they would think about are Donald and Golson.
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Sheehan at BP also said this before he wrote up his reviews (of Golson and Carrasco):
“Remember two things as you read on: it’s one day, and I am not a scout.”
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I’m not on the get AJ Burnett bandwagon but I saw him pitch on Sunday. He was practically unhittable. He was supposed to be on a short pitch count but he went nearly the whole game. He had guys swinging at pitches 2 feet outside. The Yankees saw he was on and were trying to take him deep in counts. They were hoping to get to the bullpen. The only bullpen they saw was BJ Ryan for 2 batters. Giambi hit a 1 out homer in the 9th that brought Ryan in to finish the game.
One outing doesn’t a season make but if you were going to have 1 good game, pick one near where they trade you.
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i wonder what Sheehan would have said about dan uggla as a prospect if he watched him in the all-star game and hadn’t seen him all year as is the case with golson or marson.
but i don’t blame him. i blame the magazine/site editors for giving him an opportunity to talk.
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Carrasco for Burnett straight up? Eh, that’s a crappy question to consider. Burnett would help us more this year but Carrasco could help us for a long time…I’d probably do it if I were the GM.
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