Happy Monday. I’m short on time today, but I was thinking about this earlier, and I figured it would be interesting to get opinions on this topic. What order do you see the Phillies pitching prospects in with regards to being called up to the majors in 2008? Obviously you need to take into account which guys are on the 40 man roster already, and then who is the most polished/ready for the occasion. You can break it down by starters and relievers as well, since that will likely be the biggest factor after the 40 man roster. I’ll be interested to see the order you guys place them in, as I have an idea myself, but mine is probably going to be different than yours.
18 thoughts on “Pitching call up order?”
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Phuture Phillies 
Carpenter(polished enough)
Mathieson(when ready)
Bisenius(if healthy)
Happ(dont rush this like last time, only if need be)
Outman(no rush)
Carrasco(same)
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people like Ennis, youman, castro, zagurski, balckley, holdzkom
they are on the 40 man, but are we considering them prospects/callups??
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If he were healthy Mathieson would be first, but he isn’t. So, slot him in after a few weeks of being healthy. For the rest: Happ, Castro, Outman, Carpenter, Carrasco
Bisenius and Zagurski slot in after Mathieson, when healthy. None of these 3 may be healthy this year.
Sleeper — Segovia
Blackley and Holdzkom can’t be callups unless their former team doesn’t give $25K to take them back Otherwise, they either make the 25 man out of ST or are gone.
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I’m thinking you’d have to seperate, callup as a reliever or callup as a starter… And in this case, I’ll go with what i’d like to see rather then what I think they would do. Also, i’m going to throw in a stipulation. Called up after the All-Star Game…. Also, since i’m less familiar with relief and I’m not even sure who won’t make the 40 man. I’ll just comment on starters.
Top 3 – Starter
Happ (I question if this kid has the stuff to be a major league pitcher at ANY point in his career) and if called up might be worse then Eaton last year.
Outman – I think he’d have a chance at keeping his starts at an ERA just short of 5.
Carassco – While clearly more upside then Outman, he’s still too young and showed a major hiccup when promoted to AA last year. Only shot he has is if he pitches lights out from now until July. If he averages 9k/gm with a sub 2 era at AA i’d really seriously consider him above outman and happ, though the same could be said for outman.
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Happ (starter)
Bisenius (reliever)
Mathieson (reliever)
someone else at AAA
Carpenter (only after he can’t be a Super 2 eligible)
Outman (only after he can’t be a Super 2 eligible)
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I’m not counting Zagurski or Castro
Mathieson, if healthy (if healthy, they want him in the majors to see if he can replace Lidge next year)
Happ (may get the first tap on the shoulder, but Outman is more like to be recalled and stick)
Blackley (much like Happ, assuming team is able to work out a deal to keep him and give him back under Rule 5)
Outman (see above – I think they like Outman a lot, maybe it’s justified too)
Bisenius (if the light “goes on” he could be the first guy up, if not, it’s anyone’s guess)
Holdzkum (he’ll either be on the major league roster or he’ll be on another team, someone will want him because he has such a good arm).
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obviously, for Blackley, I mean NOT give him back under Rule 5
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Completely off topic, but i read in the benson article today on phillies.com that we signed 2 pitchers from a tryout of independent guys, anyone have any information on them?
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Dont forget about either of the Durbins…..Chad will probably start the season in the bullpen as the long man but would probably be the first option to start (after the odd man out between Benson and Eaton). JD pitched well down the stretch last season and will also be another starting option. I think Zagurski is called up if, and only if, Romero is hurt or ineffective. I dont foresee either of the Rule 5 guys being in our minor league system…..they will go back to their respective clubs. Hopefully Mathieson is ready to show he belongs in MLB considering the debacle with Lidge one week into spring training. Still, dont count out Wade Miller from wearing a Phillies uniform this season. He will sign a minor league contract soon and if he pitches well will be another option.
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I’d really like to see the lefty from Northwestern up. Early in the year his strike outs were incredible. I hope he has had enough time to heal his shoulder. He could be an effective LOOP’R (lefty one out pitcher)
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This all depends, of course, on how the major league roster shakes out, especially the bullpen. I wrote a blurb over on my blog about the bullpen, but it’s obviously guesswork at this point.
First, the starters (I think Castro may make the roster as a reliever, and I think Mathieson is ticketed for the bullpen for the time being, so I’ll leave them off this list for now):
1. J.A. Happ
2. Josh Outman
3. Carlos Carrasco
4. Drew Carpenter
I’m legitimately scared of them rushing Outman and Carrasco; I don’t personally think either should be called up this year barring incredible circumstances, but I can certainly see the Phils doing it. Between Blackley, the Durbins, Happ, and Benson, there should be no need to do so, but if Castro and Mathieson do wind up in the bullpen…
Now, the relievers:
1. Fabio Castro
2. Joe Bisenius
3. Mike Zagurski
4. Scott Mathieson
Sleeper: Chance Chapman
It all depends on who gets healthy first out of that group. Zagurski has been more effective than Bisenius, but he’ll probably take longer to get healthy. Youman would probably slot in at #4 on this list if he qualified as a prospect, mostly because Mathieson needs time to round into form again.
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A tad (OK, a lot) off topic, but…
but considering the state of affairs in Philly, the fact that pitching is farm strength, Phillies’ pitching in the majors being what it is, serious strength/youth in positional play, and the potenetial salary flexibility next year:
no Thome salary;
no/less/more reasonable Pat Burrell salary (I would love him back for a restructured contract, granted he plays well – not even stellar);
no Lidge salary, unless worth it and resigned (he does have the potential);
no Moyer salary – despite my high expectations for him – recenty, statistically he always improved on a 5+ ERA season in the next outing;
no Gordon – obviously;
no Helms – pending trade NOW;
…we could be in for an exciting off-season in 2008.
Think with me. Best case scenario (with some luck reasonable expectation):
-Hamels gets a reasonable multi-year contract + stays dominant/uninjured (chiropractor – HA!)
-Kendrick plays out of his mind (Howard was MVP with “sophomore slump”)
-Myers performs as expected
-Eaton plays like he means it – I think he will bounce back (hopefully big-time)
-Madson, Romero, C. Durbin stay solid/perform as expected
BIG IFs: Blackley/Holdzkom, Carpenter, Happ, Carrasco, Outman perform well, develop (all we need is one or two proving they belong on the roster, maybe one pulls a Kendrick and tears the door down…you never know)
Zagurski, Bisenius get healthy eat up innings
Mathieson gets healthy + becomes what we all think he could
…the Phills CAN spend on Howard’s contract/arbitration again, sign Hamels, Kendrick, Victorino (+ maybe Werth) to reasonable contracts they deserve
—possibly sign Lidge (if good, healthy and up to expectations and likes Philly), and/or Benson (same conditions)
AND still have dough left over to sign a veteran (like healthy Shilling, Moyer ver. 2, Maddux, Mussina – ?, Pavano – no…, Petitte – hell no!, Rogers, Glavine-type guy) to one year
AND take a good free agent (a la Lohse but better/more proven, maybe Garcia – what he was supposed to be: healthy+dominant)
OR skip that step and just get aggressive and get a star (Prior – assuming he plays well etc., Hampton, Lowe – a star?, Billingsley, Penny, Sheets, Lincecum, Bedard – could be available, J. Weaver, Lackey, Maine/O. Perez – ha!, Isringhausen – ?, K-Rod, Carmona, Sabathia!, Wang, Okajima, Pappelbon – unlikely, Harden, Duke/Snell/Morris – ?, Kazmir!, Liriano – unlikely).
*Before you tell me I am an idiot, I know some of these are a pipe dream, and many have options and/or are not free agent eligible, but some COULD be VERY realistic (esp. Kazimir, J. Weaver, Okajima, K-Rod, Harden – if A’s are still rebuilding/willing to let him go…, Sabathia – possibly, Wang, and Sheets do not have have official options/ties to club for ’09)
No pitcher wants to come to come to pitch in CBP, but division/league/WS win could help
Plus, new GM (Cashman could help…) could have a lot to say about this.
THINK ABOUT IT: Hamels + Myers + Kendrick +/- Eaton + “veteran – short term contract”+ “free agent top of rotation help” + possibly: our own MLB-ready talent + +/-Benson experiment works out + “free agent closer”/Lidge/Mathieson + possibly healthy and effective young relievers we have, —with Drabek healthy/pitching well+Savery+Carrasco (if not already “MLB-ready”) in the wings…future could make us quite dominant.
Even if we trade/don’t resign some surplus.
NOT AS OUT OF REALM OF POSSIBILITY AS YOU MIGHT THINK.
**This does go in the same vein as seeing who might be ready to contribute now/in a year, because I am assuming someone will have a break-out year in the minors…they must – we have so many guys with potential impact.
***Again, assume best case scenario/some luck/everyone healthy and nothing unexpected happens (dumb trade due historic collapse/team underperformance, player-club-manager disputes, unreasonable lapses in productivity)
****I also assume position players are all set – I really do
(+/- Howard dispute and 3B stud long term). We have enough MVP candidates/power/offensive production/defense in general so no positional help needed (maybe in the farm system and in 2 – 3 years or in case of injuries)
AM I COMPLETELY OFF MY ROCKER?
I AM JUST THINKING OUT LOUD. I DON’T MIND NEGATIVE COMMENTS – JUST BE CIVIL. NO NEED FOR HOSTILITY OR ASININE COMMENTS.
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Relievers:
1. Zagurski
2. Bisensius
3. Mathieson
(I’m considering Castro a starter, as I believe that’s the direction the team wants to take with him.)
Starters:
1. Happ
2. Castro
3. Outman
4. Carrasco
5. Carpenter
Let’s pray it doesn’t even get close to going that deep.
DV, nothing wrong with the train of though, perhaps not the right place to express it. There are some good phan forums out there for kicking around ideas like that.
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My bad.
Sorry guys…I was thinking about it when I read the topic post. This is the only “forum” I read regularly.
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I dont see Castro making the team out of spring training in any scenario at all……..he will pitch in AAA and likely wont see the bigs barring an injury.
DV….take a toke and pass it on down the line will ya…..Prior a star???? wow….thats some good sheet your smoking….Cashman our GM….oh boy…….
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hey man, the point is…you never know.
Chances of him getting CY caliber again is about the same as Carrasco.
Prior can take a year to get his arm/confidence back, and maybe – just maybe he’s over the hump with injuries. Now I admit he could be over the hump of being good too, but he’s still young, and could have success. Again, who knows?
Cashman? Admittedly probably less than 10% chance of happening, but best case scenario we get him, and he develops our farm system AND brings in the missing components. There are few or none GM openings this year as attractive as the Phillies – good solid core to build around, salary flexibility, on the “up swing” team. Why not?
Anyway you look at it, Gillick is gone, and a lot of salary tied up from Wade-era too. So, I think we are in for a major overhaul in terms of management (GM in particular) in the OS in order to stop “building” and finally start competing. Gillick did his job so far (arguably), but he’s out and I don’t see Ruben being the next big thing. Things will have to get serious, and they should given our flexibility. I hope…at least.
I do admit its all a pipe dream, but best case scenario…we’re a dynasty (whatever that means)
Note: Carpenter is my vote. My only vote right now. Nobody else is a viable option (health or baseball wise.
I can see them call Carpenter up quickly if we have another injury. He’s the only one with appreciable control (pitching and mentality).
Lidge could be more (then again less) hurt than we think. Gordon can be the Flash or the Gordon. Benson is progressing, but if he hits a snag, we’ll need someone to pitch as cover for starters and eat up innings.
They will need an arm that is mature and won’t go nuts. Carpenter seems to be the only one to fit the bill now/in very near future.
If they call him up in late April/early May, would they force him to set up? Possible, until they have a better idea of his and rotation’s readiness.
Most likely scenario though Blackley/Holdzkom are going to be it though…just cause of their status.
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damn it another long post…again my bad guys.
— James, if you just delete my posts, I won’t be offended.
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Allentown, I like your call of Segovia as a sleeper pick. I was in Clearwater over the weekend, and he was talking to a bunch of fans and signing — for what it’s worth, he said that he was never healthy last year, but that his arm feels great this year. Would be nice to see him recover and from his arm woes and reestablish himself as a prospect.
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