221 thoughts on “2024-25 Offseason Roster and Payroll Information (updated)”

1. Sorry. Don’t know why Comments was closed.

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2. This still mentions Seattle but says Philles wanted Kirby or Gilbert for Bohm. Other one had Woo as the pitcher who might be involved.

   Phillies Asked For AL All-Star Pitcher in Exchange for Alec Bohm: Report

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3. Bohm info must have come from Snyder here.

   MLB rumors: More suitors line up for Garrett Crochet, while Phillies get trade questions about Alec Bohm – CBSSports.com

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   1. Strangely…both Kirby and Gilbert have almost identical FIPs from last season…3.26 and 3.27..,,,and close on EAR…3.5 and 3.2

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      1. ”ERA’

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      2. Both would be great gets.

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         1. Yes agreed…….though I think Dipoto, who like Dave Dombrowski, is always willing to trade and pull the trigger, will want a pitcher in return….a prospect pitcher, perhaps Abel, who would be going back home to the Northwest. Then assume the Phillies would ask for a position prospect of theirs in reciprocity.

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            1. This is along your path.

               Phillies’ stubborn nature getting in the way of major additions Alex Bregman and Willy Adames

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         2. Gilbert or Kirby would cost us bohm and painter. DD is in La La land if he thinks Bohm can get anything close to that.

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4. how about as a bridge to Painter the Phillies make a play for Scherzer on a 1 year deal. He’s not going to produce 150+ innings anymore but between him and Painter they should get 32 starts.

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   1. What does he want as far as $$$$? MLBTR projects $16M AAV…they have been projecting lower than actual signings so far….. more than likely he will sign for $18/20M for one year.

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      1. Well yea, that’s always the deciding factor. Would offer something around $12m with escalators for starts. If he gives them 20ish quality starts, it’s worth $16-$18 million.

         He’s also another good voice to have with Painter who’s should look to Wheeler/Scherzer has good examples of how his career could go.

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5. Mr. Jim – Thanks for the fabulous rundown. I always learn something when you post.

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6. Rumors that Justin Tucker is being made available. I would trade Aidan for him. Immediate plug and play star.

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   1. * Kyle (my bad)

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      1. Why would you? Tucker has one year of team control. If Houston can’t extend him now, it’s cause Tucker’s intent on going to free agency.

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         1. Any deal would come with a window to discuss an extension with him. So obviously DD would find out his number before the trade.

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         2. Also, Houston may be interested in Bohm if they think they will lose Bregman. So maybe Bohm + prospects for Tucker deal would work.

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7. Rumor is Bohn for Gilbert . They won’t move there better pitchers for Bohn I never get the value of trades. But everyday player. Who can hit. Should get you a good starter

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   1. rocco…Gilbert is a good pitcher. Stats bear it out. A 10WAR pitched over 4 years. And trending upwards. And has three more years of control which is muy importante. Also shares something with Jacob deGrom….same college

      https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/gilbelo01.shtml

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      1. Gilbert is a very solid pitcher so just from a value perspective it works. From a team construction perspective it makes little sense.

         You’re starters 1-4 were pretty darn good.

         The OF OPS was 741-601-742 and a lot of K’s. I don’t care how good you pitch you’re just not going to win with that.

         Rojas as good as his D is just isn’t good enough offensively to even be a platoon player. Late inning defensive replacement at best, occasional starts on get away days out west etc…

         I’m not against trading anyone but make it make sense for 2-3 years down the road.

         More or less 2025 is 4th down punt and focus on setting yourself up for the FA’s coming up in 26-27 when you have real money coming off the books.

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   2. He is 6’6″ and velo is 94-97T98…….though noticed he gave up on throwing his change-up two years ago, and went to a splitter instead.

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      1. I watched the game Gilbert pitched vs Phillies. He was very good that day.

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         1. I have a hard time believing that Seattle would only want Bohm for Gilbert, but, even if they want to add Abel, I make that trade in like 10 seconds and figure out third base later. Gilbert has enormous upside and 3 years of control. He had the lowest WHIP in baseball and a great K percentage. A rotation of Wheeler, Nola, Gilbert, Sanchez and Suarez with Painter in reserve is top 3 in baseball and, you could argue, the best.

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            1. I don’t get why people are freaking out about third base with a Bohm trade. You can’t maximize every position every year and they have lots of options there this year with Sosa, Kemp and Miller – they will be fine this year and into the future as Miller most likely becomes the starter or Kemp surprises. Put the money elsewhere – in two years, a Bregman deal becomes another anchor weighing the team down. No way.

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            2. What I read was Bohm isn’t enough, Gilbert is almost off the table My point was value.Which I really have hard time with a

               everyday good hitting Third basement, I thought would bring you A good starter

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8. Little more.

   Dave Dombrowski couldn’t be bothered to even make an attempt at Juan Soto

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   1. So much for “stupid money.” Stupid up until the point of that 4th luxury tier.
      I hated the Castellanos signing from Day 1. He’s always been a butcher no matter his position and he just didn’t hit enough for me to be excited about him. His ceiling was as a 3-win player and that’s if everything went right. And the Taijuan Walker deal felt frivolous, especially after they let Zach elfin go at a much cheaper rate. In these cases, stupid money was spent on stupid decisions.

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      1. Butcher? He catches everything he gets too. You might criticise his range and the $ value of the contract, but his glove is good.

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         1. That’s the problem – no, it’s not.

            If you have a low error rate but you’re only getting to 10 out of 11 balls that typical outfielder would get to, then, over the course of a year, you’re giving up a ton of hits. That’s Castellanos – he’s a bad outfielder. Let me say it again. HE IS A BAD OUTFIELDER.

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            1. I don’t protest he is a bad outfielder, but I don’t think he is a butcher. If Andrew said Turner is a butcher, I would have agreed with him.

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         2. Oldruff- I said he was a butcher no matter his position. He was a butcher at 3B, and while technically not a butcher in RF, he’s awful out there. Don’t you think we’re spending a lot of typing on splitting hairs here?

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      2. Bingo. The stupid money was already spent, and it wasn’t enough. Even the Turner deal looks silly now.

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         1. The Turner deal was a bad deal the moment it was signed. Yes, they stretched the AAV, but even if he’s okay for the start of the contract (he’s barely been worth what they are paying him now, hopefully he can have some better years), the contract is almost certainly going to be dead weight for between 3-5 years at the end at the very least. I’m sorry but there’s no defense for that – all you’re doing is saddling some future GM with a worthless roster cost. One dead year I get, two dead years maybe in the right deal – but 3-5 dead years for a guy who is barely worth what you’re paying him annually on the front end? What the heck?

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9. Last year the teams tapped out before the (Boras) free agents got signed in the off-season. Sasaki will be a late signing by somebody this time around. I’m not troubled if Dombrowski watches as a few hands get played. If Soto is a $60 M a year player, everyone needs time to re-assess.

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   1. should be 45mil, I’ve heard it’s 600 mil over 13 years. His age 39 season. If he is getting offers beyond that … just nuts. He’s not worth more than ohtani. He needs to settle down 🙂

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      1. Well, Ohtani was $46 m AAV, so $45 million sounds about right. FYI – he’s going to be worth that contract if he plays the way I expect him to play. And if you’re wondering why we’re not in the mix, you have Castellanos, Walker and Turner to thank for that. I don’t care who the owner is – the money is not unlimited.

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         1. If they wanted to spend the $$$ on Soto, the Castellanos, Walker and Turner contracts aren’t stopping them.

            Both Castellanos and Walker’s deals are over in 2 years so they could work the Soto contract to accommodate those deals. They can also move Castellanos’s contract with some financial offsets to move his contract.

            They could also move Schwarber to free up $20m if they needed to make financial space.

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            1. The biggest issue with Soto is that he’s going to become a DH sooner rather than later. He’s already sub-par defensively and is only going to get worse.

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               1. Exactly…….he will be limited to either 1B or DH…..with the occasional visits to LF. Having that bat though is very very tempting in a lineup.

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               2. Yes, the bat will be good in any line-up. Just think the Phillies look at him and don’t see a long-term fit.

                  Also opens up a question of how the clubhouse handles Soto making significantly more money per year than Harper, Turner, Schwarber, etc.

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            2. I’m not understanding the point. We’ve won WS titles with Greg Luzinski and Pat Burrell in LF. Lost WS with Raul Ibanez and Kyle Schwarber in LF. The difference here is, none of those guys hit like Soto. I’ll take my chances with Soto in LF.

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         2. I agree catch. I really narrow it down to the Walker signing though. It was a head scratcher to me when I learned of the signing because at the time they have Painter, Abel,and McGarry. Now.. i was wrong, and it turns out that the Phillies did need another SP… just not a dirty Met 🙂 That contract is one of the worst in baseball. Thankfully it’s short term, but still enough to factor into a Soto signing. Will see. Maybe they trade others to make it happen. Seems like everyone is on the block minus Harper, Schwarber, Wheeler & Nola.

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10. Gilbert is a big strike out pitcher. Much more so than Kirby. I don’t believe the Mariners give up either one for Bohm. The best they can do is Woo.

    And I really hope they don’t sign Scherzer, especially for big bucks. He has had so much trouble staying on the field. I think that’d be a bad move.

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    1. Bohm plus a prospect–perhaps Mick Abel-may get Kirby.

       Remember…Dipoto has good luck with once promising prospects coming his way from the Phillies…JPC for one, in that Jean Segura trade back in 2018.

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       1. Kirby or Gilbert

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          1. Gilbert has the least years of control so in my mind DiPoto would be more apt to trade him.

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       2. I’ll take Gilbert and a close to MLB ready prospect for Bohm and Abel. This would be contingent of course on DD having the next 3b in the queue. Don’t want Mad Max, thank you. Nor do I want Arenado at this point.

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          1. young controllable number 1 or 2 starters are the currency of baseball. Bohm and Abel is not going to touch getting a guy like Gilbert or Kirby. The articles being written rightfully so imply that DD is being absurd. Bohm has one year with a war of 3 in his career. His value is not that of a young high end starter. Luis Castillo at his high salary is probably more obtainable

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             1. Keep in mind that the Phils are not in need of a #1 or #2 starter during the period of team control of Kirby or Gilbert. That ship sailed last year when the Phils did business with Wheeler and Nola.

                The Phils don’t have a successor for Bohm. Reports have Bregman seeking better than the 6-year $150 M Houston is offering. Who wants that?

                The Mariners need to upgrade their infield. The Phils have a strong rotation. Dombrowski knows this. He’s not in a position of weakness the way some on here seem to think.

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       3. Romus. Your guy Bregman. Kind of in the number range I have seen.

          Astros predicted to lose 2-time All-Star to Phillies on $156M deal

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       4. Romus. Your guy Bregman. Kind of in the number range I have seen.

          Astros predicted to lose 2-time All-Star to Phillies on $156M deal

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          1. Yeah……6/$156M is about right….I’d go 6/$162M with the sixth year club option with a higher percentage buy-out.

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             1. Classic DD overpay move for a declining player. It will be fine for a year or two most likely, but, on the whole, I hate this move, especially since your best hitting prospect is projected to play this position and is no more than a year away.

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                1. Bregman is already on record saying he will move off third base, at some point down the road to help the team. Which is fortuitous, if and when that time would come. And five or six years is not a terribly lengthy contract.

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                2. Yeah, it’s not a long contract if you sign it when you’re 27 or 28 and at the top of your game, but when you’re 31 and you’re already declining, which he is, it’s way too long – like at least two year too long. It’s a DD special – too expensive and too long. I hope I’m wrong, but I doubt it.

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             2. Romus big spending for the A’s

                Sources – Athletics, Luis Severino reach 3-year, $67M deal – ESPN

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                1. Looks like they are getting ready for Vegas in three years. Trying to go into their new home with a credible and competitive team.

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                2. This is a Phillies site. Not an A’s site. Keep it to the Phillies and leave other teams out, please.

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             3. How about 750M for Soto?

                MLB Rumors: Juan Soto surprise, Max Fried dark horse, Crochet waiting game

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    2. Woo would be a steal for Bohm as he isn’t eligible for FA until 2030…

       Even a guy like DiPoto might not do that deal. He may actually do Gilbert before he Woo.

       I guess we’ll see. I called for a shake-up at the end of the season. I was just hoping it would be more about the OF, something more dynamic offensively out there.

       I wouldn’t even mind moving JT and giving Marchan a shot at staying healthy. BU catchers are a dime a dozen and a few decent ones are out there in Jansen and Higashioka.

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11. Guys here is another Bohm but still a big contract involved.

    Insider suggests Phillies-Cardinals blockbuster involving $8M All-Star | Sporting News

    One are of BP need could be addressed.

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    1. I tend to value relievers significantly less that most people. Even the impressive lock down closer types who are usually shooting stars that fade before you know it. I’d rather load up the rotation and consider using Cris Sanchez in high leverage late inning situations.

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    2. hmmmm… Arenado had a decent power dip last year. It will be his age 34 season. He has three years left, at 30mil for 90 mil. I’d say the cards would have to put in 30mil for the Phils to take him. That puts him at 20mil, Bregman is predicted at 26mil… is it better to just sign Bregman and trade for Helsley? Bohm for Helsley is a money wash, but I’d expect STL to have to give up more.

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       1. The problem with Arenado is he has a big deferred payment that lasts until 2041. Ugly contract.
          https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/player/_/id/12643/nolan-arenado

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          1. I didn’t know it was that ugly. Hard pass even with Hesley.

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12. When looking at trades through the perspective of dynasty league fantasy baseball, I think one gains a better grasp of the equity involved on both sids of a trade. Contracts, the value of a contract is determined by time (duration of contract), potential future value of asset, age of player, and current value of asset. Admittedly, there is more involved in relation to two parties engaging in a transaction such as where teams are currently standing in their competitive window and their competitive model / demographic. What market share do they hold in relation to their peers. In other words, what resources do they hold at their disposal. I am discussing this because we are in the midst of trade season where speculation is rampant. Specifically, I am bringing this up as it relates to the discussion surrounding Bohm and his value. He will be paid 8 million this year and has one more arbitration year of control remaining. He will be turning 29 next August so is at the peak of his prime years of value. If we assume that on the open market he would earn twice that, so 18 million per year. His excess value for the next two years could be found to be almost 20 million as he would on the open market likely earn almost 20 million per year and would be getting paid only 17 million or so over those two years. So, if you do the same calculation for the pitchers discussed which are Kirby and Gilbert, I imagine that it will be found that their excess value will be well north of Bohm’s 20 million. When considering trade scenarios, I think along these lines. Now, it isn’t as simple as I laid out as excess value of an asset is not the only factor under consideration. Placing value on prospects is speculative which obviously means that there is more risk involved in those “assets”…but also potentially much greater reward. Anyhow, looking at these trades through the lens of dynasty league baseball is what I find myself doing.

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13. Ruben Amaro on Philly Talk anticipates that the Phils will be more active on the trade market than in free agency. I don’t see it. The Phils don’t have much to offer in trade that 1) they can spare and 2) that other teams would want. Apart from prospects that an aging, salary-strapped team should retain.It could be quite different by the trade deadline as prospects display their readiness.

    If the Phils’ signed free agents Hoffman (5th starter), Profar, Scott and Yates and made a try for Sasaki, to me it would be a great off-season.

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14. With all these podcast. And experts. It’s so much wasting information plain and simple if there is a free agent they want, they will pay. As far as trades. I just don’t think they move Painter Miller. Crawford is a tough call imo

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    1. rocco…to move Crawford I would think they would get an OFer in return. Not sure so far, if they are counting on Nori and Burkeholder to become what they are expecting them to become since they are a bit away in A ball.

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15. Tough offseason to gauge. I’m going to assume Phils miss out on Soto to the Mutts for 13yr/650-675mil. Thats 54mil+ a year. My hope is the Yankees will then sign Alonso to weaken the Mets. I would then hope the Phillies upgrade their SR with a shutdown closer to fend off the Mets.

    I’ll throw this out there….

    Trade target: Luis Arraez is said to be potentially on the block. Hes a 1B,2B & 3B on a 1yr/10mil, FA in 2025. 2 scenarios:

    1. Have him play 2B, move Stott to SS, Turner to OF. If Arraez could revert back to his Marlins plate approach… I would like to see that approach for the lineup for the playoffs. Might be tough since it’s a contract year. Sign Profar, upgrade for plate discipline in The OF. Wait for Miller & Crawford. I keep Rojas, as the 4th (defensive replacement) for the foreseeable future. Id look at the OF for next year, to see if it makes sense to sign Santander now to replace Castellanos.
    2. Another tweak to this coudl be if If Bohm can fetch a Seattle starter… it may make sense to do that to lock in Wheeler, Nola, Sanchez, Painter, & Woo? Though… If you can get Sasaki, it’s a lucky wildcard, then I trade Bohm for Devon Williams.

    It’s not a blow you over remake, more of a reload year. The team is just going to have do it. Then come deadline trade some young talent to give them a push. (Tait & Caba)

    A great surprise would be if McGarry could put it together for the BP. Start praying!

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16. Tac – Arraez is a defensive liability. That is one of the reasons why the Marlins traded him.

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    1. But he can rake!

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       1. Rake? Is he a landscaper?

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          1. FOR $10,000,000/YR., I’ll rake, hoe, trim the bushes, mow the grass, rototill, as required.

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    2. Really? I thought they taught fundamentals in Venezuela! I would have assumed he was good defensively. Back to the drawling board… but really , can he be worse than Bohm?

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17. How about this plan:
    Step 1. Bohm + Crawford + Tijuan (with a 50% pay down) for Kirby or Gilbert.
    Step 2. Trade Ranger to Cubs for Seiya Suzuki
    Step 3. Re-sign Estevez to be our closer.
    Step 4. Sign Yoán Moncada to a 1 year prove it deal. He platoons with Sosa until either Otto or Aidan can take over that spot.

    What this plan does:
    1. Upgrades our SP rotation and gives us longer control as Ranger is a FA next year. Kirby or Gilbert become our #2 starter. Both are better than Nola.
    2. Seiya Suzuki is the perfect fit for our lineup. His .366 OB% as a RH hitter is perfect for our lineup. I personally would bat him leadoff. But that is a different discussion. Marsh and Rojas platoon in CF.
    3. I am high on Estevez. I understand that he gave up the homer to Lindor. I was actually at that game in NY. It was painful. But he is really good. And a good culture fit.
    4. Moncada is a bounce back candidate. And a platoon of him and Sosa is a good bridge to either Kemp or Miller.

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    1. That’s good stuff! I think they would definitely do steps one and two (don’t think that Walker is part of the equation though). 👍

       Steve Potter

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       1. Imo Bohm + Crawford for Kirby or Gilbert is too much. So they have to take 50% of Walker or they get Nori instead of Crawford.

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          1. Dipoto probably would bite on Rincones vs Nori…..Rincones is right on the cusp, and had another good finish in the AFL after a slow start. Nori has a ways to go.

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             1. That works for me. Bohm + Rincones for Kirby or Gilbert is a win for Phillies imo.

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18. Adames signed with SFG, 7/$182M, which is exactly what MLBTR predicted Bregman would get, higher than the 6/$160 they posted for Adames. I don’t know about these weak contracts MLB teams seem willing to dole out. Guys at 30-ish years of age who have never put up numbers worthy of MVP consideration, being offered such generous terms tells me the market is very thin. My hope is Dombrowski gets creative through the trade route and pulls off a couple gems.

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    1. Adames entered FA at age 29 which is about 1 year younger than most. He’s a 3 WAR player but he hasn’t had an elite season. It’s a curious contract since it wouldn’t take much of a decline to make this contract look bad.

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    2. The giants know they have to be aggressive and early to entice free agents to play for them. Not a great supporting cast. Not a great hitter’s environment. Insanely high taxes. They simply have to overpay.

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19. DD needs to find this generation’s Jayson Werth or Shane Victorino. The Phils have done real well finding under the radar pitchers, making some tweaks, and finding gold, ie, Sanchez, Hoffman, Strahm, etc

    They haven’t been successful finding a single position player in the last 5 years that’s an under the radar guy. Sosa would be the closest but he is really just a good utility guy.

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    1. Sometimes you have to look within your own system. Kemp or Rincones JR could potentially be those guys but you won’t know unless you give them a chance.

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20. 1. Bohm and Casty to Seattle for Gilbert
    2. Trade Walker to St. Louis for Arrenado
    3. Trade Ranger, Rojas, Abel, Jean Cabrera, and Seth Johnson to Cubs for Bellinger and Porter Hodge
    4. Sign Tanner Scott and Jack Flaherty

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21. I’ve got a news flash for this group, NOBODY wants Taijuan Walker. He isn’t getting traded. What team in their right minds would take Walker? Even if we made it “palatable” and ate $24M, essentially making Walker a $5M a year pitcher, nobody wants him for that.

    It’s almost the same with Castellanos. Even if we ate half of his contract, he’s still a DH who flails at sliders out of the zone for an easy K. And since we basically need 1.5 outfielders now, there’s no way we move Castellanos. I guess the best hope is that Casty “feels more comfortable” next season and can be a .280 hitter with 24 homers.

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    1. I know Walker has been awful, and I don’t have faith he’ll return to form, but I think a few things to consider:

       1. Nobody is taking him in a trade unless we either eat over 50% of the remaining contract, or we take back another awful contract, or we include valuable assets in a deal to offset Walker’s negative value.
       2. It costs the Phillies nothing to bring him to spring training and see where he’s at. If, and yes a big if, but if he returns to 2023 form, he a) becomes a viable 5th starter (not worth the salary but viable to help the club), and b) he is no longer a negative value asset to trade mid-season.

       I would not attach him to trades that lower the value of the return of Bohm, Ranger, or any prospects we trade. We are a stupid money, big market franchise that should eat that money when the time is right rather than devalue our assets to save the money, unless it’s mandatory to add other assets financially, but I doubt that to be the case.

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    2. 100% True today however there is no reason not to bring him to ST to see if the arm bounces back. At least I cannot think of a reason.

       That said even if he appears to be throwing well in ST no team is going to take a chance on him paying his complete salary but the goal would be to move him while eating at little of it as possible.

       Now the things we don’t know is if he is a bad guy in the locker room and such. If that is the case the DFA should have come awhile back.

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22. I think Bohm (along with a prospect like Abel and another 2nd tier kid) winds up with Seattle. There seems to be more smoke from those rumors. DD has to get Gilbert (preferably) or Kirby. The Walker/Castellanos dead money should be considered only in exchange for overblown contracts which might serve both teams. Arenado might be had as a bridge to our future 3b if we offered Walker and a couple of “promising” prospects further down the pipeline.

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23. Seattle feels like a good fit. Bohm, Abel and Rincones for Woo and Harry Ford.

    Then trade Ranger and Nori to the Orioles for Jordan Westburg, opening a spot for Mayo.

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24. Here’s a fun one. Castellanos and Walker to Detroit ($74M over two years) for Javier Baez ($73M over three years), and just release him after the trade.

    That would save us about $10M a year for these two years but we’d be on the hook for that third year, $24M. Maybe people in Detroit still like Castellanos and wouldn’t view him as total loss the way they do Baez.

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    1. Castellanos is not a negative value player. He is a DH with a 2 WAR for his offense. He is over paid but not by much. Baez is terrible. Hard pass on that deal.

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       1. If he’s overpaid “but not by much,” then we shouldn’t have a problem moving him if we eat the “not much” part of his deal. And yet, I don’t see anybody lining up for that deal. I bet the Phillies would be hard-pressed to move him even if they ate half his salary. So while castellanos is a non-negative value player, his minimal value is much lower than what you’re perceiving.

          I typically agree with a lot of your posts V1, I think we just don’t see eye to eye on this one.

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25. Congrats to Dick Allen’s family and life long fans on his long overdue and unfortunately posthumous induction into the HOF.

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    1. Yes…….finally.

       Happy for his son and family.

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26. Mutts to sign Soto – $765 mil for 15 years.😂. Opt out in 2029.75 mil signing bonus. Well I guess he MM are the right choice not signing that Nats offer. A good vet … that got him the largest sports contract in history – in terms of $$$ & years. Again, he’s a good bat, but definitely an overpay

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    1. This will stop Mets fans from complaining about Bobby Bonilla, whose contract is now just a rounding error.

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       1. I bet everytime he butchers a ball in RF … lol they are going think $800 million?!?!? …. EVERYTIME. Him and Lindor are going to be tough

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          1. Lets not forget that the Soto-Machado-Tatis-Bogaerts 4-some didn’t exactly rip off a world series win. Lindor-Soto-Vientos-Nimmo (with no bullpen and a ragtag rotation) might be formidable, but nothing is guaranteed.

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          2. he will become their full-time DH within the next 3/4 years.

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    2. Have to assume Yanks will make their pitch for Alonso now. Can’t let their cross town team get the best of them.

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       1. I wonder if the Phils will now pivot to sign Scott, a lefty.

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          1. That could well be the case. Though Soto hits lefties well also… anyway, more so than other LHBs. If the Mets lose Alonso to the Yankees….they are losing one of their more popular players and replacing his franchise face with Soto. Will be interesting to see how it all transpires up their in Queens.

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             1. The key to defiling Soto is how you handle the guys in front and behind him in the LU.

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                1. Correct….like opponents have to do with Harper……you try to limit the damage by having the ones in front of him from being on base..

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          2. In theory I would love that move but I’ve never been big on putting that kind of coin into a closer or a catcher…

             And that’s not say both aren’t extremely important to attaining a WS victory. Thinking of Chooch and Lidge.

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       2. ROMUS – Yankees might go hog wild – Sign Bregman, Santander, Hoffman, and Burnes …

          this is the wordt

          case scenario for the Phillies FA plans, Soto going to the Mets. I still think the Phillies are a better team, but they are closing the gap. It’s more how the dominoes fall after a division rival gets stronger. Only worse outcome is if Soto went to the Braves

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          1. Well Mets took Holmes and Soto from them….they are prepared to spend their money it appears…….if Phillies do trade Bohm, hope Bregman is on their radar.

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             1. Romus, I would offer Bregman 5/$130 with 6th year vesting option PLUS the opportunity to play with a WIN NOW contender, assuming Bohm is dealt.

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          2. Biggest key to Phillies advantage over the Mets is starting pitching. After Wheeler, big drop-off to Nola, Ranger et al…they need another formidable ace type. An outfielder is also necessary. Otherwise I take my chances with our roster. Of course the Bohm situation must play out as well….hopefully sometime this week. Would live Gilbert from the M’s, but he’ll cost us much more than Bohm.

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       3. Agree, now that the destination of Soto is determined and if Alonso goes cross town, I think things will really break loose on the trade market.

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          1. To piggyback – The trade & FA markets should start moving. Too many teams have needs to fill to remain competitive or get jump a team in terms of talent to wait much longer IMHO. It just feels like musical chairs… and the Phillies could be left without a chair this offseaso. If the Yankees sign Bregman… okay ..they keep Bohm, but they would likely need to get Santander or T.Hernadez then… and the Yankees, Mets, and Dodgers are still out there with the Orioles, Rangers, and Giants. TOR as well. Seattle. I am starting to wonder again if it’s just better to HOLD/Retool year. Have the CBT pentalty drop off lose some bad contracts and let the top prospects develop… anyone else leaning that way? If Crawford & Miller have good plate discipline, Can add some pop, they resign Schwarber for DH… … We keep talking about trading for a pitcher… but .. maybe it’s BETTER to keep Ranger. Dude is money. Will see how it all shakes out.

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             1. I’m definitely in that camp…

                Not that I wouldn’t listen to everything but I’m really not interested in moving any top tier prospects.

                Not at this stage. I can get another year to see how good Crawford can really be as an MLBer. I know at this stage it is highly likely he is an MLBer. He’s probably at least Marsh without all the Ks and a much better CF.

                Miller everyone seems to think will be heir apparent to Bohm. I’m not there yet but want to another full season of him in AA.

                Gabby Rincones has me very intrigued even if he ends up as a platoon player.

                Painter we all know is going to be a stud. Only question is when he’ll be able to start giving you 30 starts a season.

                And that’s before we even get into talking about guys like Tait, Caba and Nori.

                Not sure who the FA is but once you’re free of JT, Schwarber, Castellanos and Walker’s $$$ you can acquire some really nice players with that.

                And that’s really where you want to be as a franchise…just needing a guy or two.

                All the while you still have a good enough group to make the playoffs.

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                1. This is not so much for you as it is for everyone. Miller is a SS until the Phillies say otherwise. So, until then, we don’t have an heir apparent to Bohm. Their interest in Bregman, which is real, underscores this. When Miller is ready, Turner probably moves to the outfield making everyone happy.

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27. MLB posted an article about the rule 5 draft and a list of names that will likely get selected and no Phillies were on the list.

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    1. I’d be surprised if someone doesnt take McGarry. I get that control is his issue. Seems like the player you take a flyer on

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    2. For me Castellano is the guy I’m going to be surprised with. It seems to me there are some really bad teams out there that can afford a guy like him a spot on their 26 man.

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    3. Eiberson Castellano is likely to be selected during the major league phase. Not only do I think that’s a possibility, but I read that in one of the many, many articles I’ve read the past week.

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       1. If he’s a near lock to be selected, why not protect him? Is there a better player that the Phillies want to select instead?

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          1. Looks that way….I think there are few open slots on their 40 and you need open slots to participate in the Rule 5.

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          2. It’s a matter of available slots on the 40. It came down to Cabrera and Castellano. They protected the pitcher they thought more likely to stick with a drafting team. They must expect Castellano, if drafted, to be returned.

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       2. Admittedly there are a number of arms on the 40 I know nothing about but one I do know about is Tyler Phillips. Nice kid great story but I’m sorry you can’t make a case to me any way for protecting him over Castellano.

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          1. I don’t have to make the case. The Phillies did.

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             1. LOL I know you don’t owe me anything Jim. I like our prospects I want to see them come through the system and do well for us :).

                And when I post I try to keep in the forefront of my mind these guys get paid a lot to think this stuff through 24/7!

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28. will be interesting to see where pieces fall now, not hopeful anything much happens here this year.

    with having bohm be so on the block, kind of have to move him for optics at this point, if you poke a tumor and let it sit there and fester all year it’s going to be way worse then getting rid of it sooner, if he had a bad attitude then, imainge what it’ll be like in 2025.

    let out audible groan with mets soto news, would have been nicer for us he stayed in the AL let alone the NL East again.. buttkus

    sasaki would be a nice christmas tho, maybe do that cubs deal somebody mentioned for a change and culture stuff… gotta keep pace somehow with the NY/Cali teams or it’ll be all she wrote in another decade if japan keeps producing at these levels.. and we all know how well their cars run so you read the writing on the walls

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29. The Yankees’ final offer to Soto, according to MLB.com’s Mark Feinsand, was $760M over 16 years, a $47.5M AAV. The Mets’ contract carries a $51M AAV, with a $75M signing bonus and no deferrals, with an opt-out clause after the 2029 season. Sheesh….the money is falling off the trees this autumn.

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    1. Anyone who was paying attention knew that Steve Cohen was going to blow the FA market wide open when the right deal came along. More than anything Cohen is a huge fan and nearly unlimited resources and who basically needs to answer to nobody. Middleton isn’t the biggest spender in the NL East anymore and for the foreseeable future, he won’t be. But that doesn’t mean he won’t spend a lot or that the Phillies cannot compete – of course they can.

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30. Phillies pick up Romano formerly of Blue Jays. Has some injury concerns.

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    1. Don…..he is a hard thrower with FB velo in the 95-97T98 range. But just a two pitch reliever …FourSmr and Slider.

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    2. But was used as a closer in the past….so he has done that with over 100 MLB saves to his name.

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       1. True. Said he had been former closer but only 13 innings in 2024.

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31. Romano is low-risk high-reward signing. I love it.

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32. Dick Allen. Philadelphia Phillies Slugger Latest Victim of Hall of Fame’s Shameful Trend

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33. AGREE – GREAT SIGNING OF ROMANO !

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    1. He’s solid, but he better be healthy.

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34. Phillies land ex-Blue Jays 2-time All-Star in first big move of offseason

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    1. Like the Romano signing. This kind of deal frees up more money allotted to bigger fish, yet Romano potentially (and hopefully) becomes the bargain of the off season.

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       1. Great move – now they can sign a guy like Hoffman or someone similar to him and have the type of depth they had when they acquired Estevez. I love this move.

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          1. Kirby Yates is a guy I would strongly consider. I like Hoffman and I would really like to have him back but not at some crazy figure.

             Yates was really good before he got hurt and had a phenomenal season last year putting up a 1.17 ERA over .85 WHIP.

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             1. Yeah, he’s 37 but I was excited when I thought he might be the signing today.

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                1. Jim, is that based on anything you got wind of? Or just your hope?

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                2. The wind constantly blows and shifts. I had heard Yates might be acquired but quickly heard that it might be Romano. I was still looking up Yates on Baseball Reference when the wind shifted.

                   I hear a lot of interesting things that I can’t repeat.

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35. With Correa possibly on the block, would he be of interest to anyone? With 4 years and $133M guaranteed, would a package of Stott-Crawford-two other top-10 pieces (not Tait) work for Correa if the Twins sent over some cash to make the deal more palatable?

    Correa has very good postseason numbers, is only 29 years old, can push Turner to 2B and give us the RH bat we need in the middle of our lineup.

    Thoughts?

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    1. I remember his injury concerns from his previous deal. I’m not certain they weren’t warranted. From what I read & remember the injury never properly healed. It was slowly degrading. The older he gets the more likely it is he is going to be out for your post season run. To me, it’s too much risk, unless you don’t care about the 4th year, possiby even the third. If I’m trading Stott & Crawford I’d like less risk on the injury side. Still, He is interesting to consider. Same idea with Trout… is the juice worth the squeeze!

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    2. Stott is 3 years younger than CC. Last year he was a 2 WAR player but the year before he had a 4.2 WAR. He is under team control at basically a free contract for 3 more seasons. Correa is a 4 war player at $33m AAV.

       From a surplus value perspective, Stott is far more valuable than CC. I don’t think they need to give up anything else. A Stott for CC deal is. Good deal for Twins and I am not sure DD would even do that.

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    3. I would not do that deal for the simple fact that CC is never healthy. Darn good player when he is but no I wouldn’t do that deal unless we’re getting something more in return like Lee.

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    4. I wouldn’t include Stott in a trade mainly because he’s (IMO) a glue guy who may not put up big numbers but a winning type player who comes up big in key moments. Plus he’s cheap for the time being and has experienced post season pressure.

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       1. Bryson brings a lot to the team GG Defense, good BB rate low K rate, heady base runner. It’s all there for him to have a breakout season before he becomes a FA.

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36. My favorite program on MLB Network just might be the winter meetings with Dan O’Dowd.

    He’s incredibly insightful about the processes each club and GM is going through and couple him Jake Peavy who has been traded more than a few times and a FA a few others and you get a great synergy of information.

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    1. DMAR …agree. I like Dan O’D because of his inside knowledge and also the fact he is self-deprecating about his Rockies’ experiences.

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37. I like to listen to O’Dowd as well. He looks at the entire picture for whatever topic they are covering. I agree with both of you.

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38. My buddy, the Blue Jays fan, follows a lot of the twitter MLB analysts and news breakers. He notes that the White Sox are (not surprisingly) asking for Painter or Miller and the Phillies are obviously balking at that price.

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39. Zack Wheeler. He’s a huge reason why the Phillies need to acquire top of the rotation arms NOW. He’s a free agent following the 2025 season. He’ll be 35 in 2026. He may still be very effective at that point, but not worth what it might take to either re-sign him or extend him beforehand. And he’s currently and clearly the ace of this squad.

    So, acquiring the likes of Crochet (with an extension) and Roki Sasaki in the off season is not only advisable but in my mind it’s mandatory. Nola and Sanchez are good mid rotation arms, not great. Ranger probably gets you some OF or future catching talent. I think Dombrowski is fixed on solidifying what there’s never enough of – starting pitching.

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    1. Umm… Zack Wheeler signed a 3 year extension at $42 per season through 2027. He’s not going anywhere any time soon.

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       1. My bad, and my poor vision read 2026 which was actually 2028. Thanks for the correction. Nonetheless he’s 34 now. No worries about 2025, but beyond next year who’s projected to be the ace? Painter? Maybe by 2027 barring injury.

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          1. Hard to say… but I suppose, much like Roy Halladay, Zack will be an ace until he isn’t. He is showing no signs of slowing down so far. Hopefully he’ll be one of those guys who can bring it until his late ’30’s.

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40. I’ve read a lot of people are wondering why, with 4 proven starters in the fold and Painter on the way, are the Phillies looking into more starting pitching. But something we have to acknowledge is just how healthy this staff has been. Wheeler and Nola have missed almost no time at all the past few seasons. Christopher Sanchez has been very reliable and although Ranger’s back gave him problems last year, his arm is steady. We currently have a black hole at the #5 spot and if one of the top 4 go down, the team will struggle…and it will put tons more pressure on the bullpen. I’m not holding my breath but IMO, wooing Sasaki should be the Phillies top priority this month.

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    1. Phillies have zero chance of getting Sasaki. They don’t have the most international FA money available to offer and they are not considered a destination for Japanese players.

       He will most likely become a Dodger.

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       1. Maybe there is also the Mariners…they have had some success with Japanese players.

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          1. Here is a brief write up on Sasaki. Sounds west coast likely.

             Roki Sasaki free agency: What Japanese ace is looking for in his first MLB team after leaving NPB

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41. Stott has bottom 5 bat speed in baseball

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    1. I haven’t thought about Stott’s bat speed, but since you mention it, it is very evident to me. If we all reflect upon Stott’s initial struggles, he initially had a different swing /approach at the plate. I think it was the no stride, contact oriented approach that diminished his bat speed somewhat drastically. Hopefully, in the offseason, he makes some adjustments as it appears the new approach has perhaps reached the end of its usefulness. So, time to adapt and transofrm a bit for him.

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    2. That is not accurate. It is 20th lowest, not bottom 5. You know who had the lowest? The NL batting average leader, Luis Arraez. 3rd lowest was Steven Kwan. Really a useless stat. Once you are above a certain level it doesn’t matter.

       https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/bat-tracking?sortColumn=avg_sweetspot_speed_mph_qualified&sortDirection=asc

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       1. Good information! As we are aware, his approach was a conscious and deliberate choice made with foresight into what he and others envisioned to be most beneficial for his career. We can see that it was a wise choice. I expect that we will see the approach largely remain unchanged with only minor adjustments that are beyond me.

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       2. Interesting….spray contact hitters like Kwan (who does have some pop) and Arraez are on that list. And of course they ‘K’ at one of the lowest rates in MLB.

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       3. arraez is an intentional contact hitter. It’s part of his approach. He can get around on anything he wants too. Stott looks like he’s using Ryan Howard’s bat swinging a golf club falling all over the place at the plate. Slow bat, power hitter swing with average power. He has had two terrible years of his 3 years. And he also hits on the strong side being a lefty

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42. Just seeing this posted on Crochet and suitors. Looks as though Red Sox may have the readiest MLB guys.

    Garrett Crochet trade candidates: What Red Sox, Mets, Yankees and Phillies have to offer in return for ace – CBSSports.com

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    1. If the Phillies do not get him, like to see the BoSox get him…make it difficult for the AL leaders.

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       1. sounds like he’s heading to BOS if the CWS want the best return, if they don’t want to face him, then it’s the Phillies in the NL. Mets got squat imo

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43. So the Yankees gave a soon to be 31 year old Max Fried 8/218 and I’m glad that he’s out of the NL East. That said, it’s a ridiculous deal for a pitcher who has had his share of injuries.

    The Yankees clearly haven’t learned when they gave Carlos Rodon 6/162 with a full no trade clause only 2 years ago. In 2 years with the Yankees, Rodon has delivered 1.1 WAR (not a typo).

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    1. Guys at Meetings last night said Yankees are not done and look for them to act quickly. It was mentioned that they need an upgrade at 3B with Fried alone. Arenado, Bregman, and Christian Walker were the guys mentioned most.

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44. i won’t be mad if the Phillies do nothing Baseball is headed for a reality check. These contracts are nuts. Fried 8 yrs 218. For a guy who gets hurt a lot.

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    1. I sure hope if they finally trade Bohm and want to sign Bregman for third….it is not a 7 or 8 yr deal.

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       1. It’s going to be 8 imo, how else are you going to get him to sign after giving 11 … Nola his deal and then the market just gave a 15 yr deal and 8 yr deal for a pitcher. 8 is looking like a bargain at this point. Hopefully there are opt outs worked in

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       2. I am so rooting against a Bregman deal LOL

          and I don’t care if we keep or trade Bohm at this point…

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       3. If just going by last years numbers Bregman was a 118+ OPS player; Profar was a 136+ OPS player

          3B for us last years was 117+. LF for us was 109+ and CF 69+. By adding 136+ to Left and moving 109+ to CF makes you a much more dynamic offense.

          And is Profar going to cost more than Bregman?

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          1. Sounds good DMAR as to the LF and overall OF solution……what if Bohm is traded, who plays third?

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             1. Who’s on first.

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                1. That’s funny every time Jim

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             2. Great question Romus my answer is any one of 3 guys come into ST fighting for the spot: Sosa, Wilson or even Kemp.

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          2. Few days ago, they showed last year’s contracts. Believe Profar was only 1M. So unlikely he jumps Bregman but who knows these days.

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       4. Perhaps Bregman will settle for a higher AAV ilo of a 2 or 3 year longer contract….as an example, 6yr/180M vs 8yr/220M.

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45. Max Freid’s AAV is higher than Bryce Harper now…..

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    1. MGM should post odds – Number of Starts in the Contract.

       Over / Under – 90. I’ll take the under.

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46. May be slightly off topic, but I note the passing of Rocky Colavito at age 91.

    Though I was an intense Phillies Phan as a kid, Rocky was a favorite of mine, right up there with Richie Ashburn and Robin Roberts. In fact, I even had a picture of him tacked to my bedroom door, an honor that even Richie or Robbie didn’t get (though Chuck Bednarik did).

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    1. I also liked Rocky C. a lot…….had his baseball card. He was in his late 20s when I started to follow him with the Tigers then back to the Indians.

       If you look at his Baseball Reference page, he has 9 BOLDED offensive categories with an overall 45 WAR career. A very nice baseball career….may he RIP.

       https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/colavro01.shtml

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       1. i knew you liked me

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47. ffan – I can remember when Colavito was traded. It was a monster trade at the time. Tell me now: Who was he traded for?

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    1. Harvey Kueen and then, in a comebacker Tommy John.😇

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       1. Hoosier Tommy John. I may have had all of their cards at one time. I remember Rocky well.

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48. Cole Hamels returning to the Phillies.

    https://www.phillyvoice.com/phillies-news-cole-hamels-guest-instructor-spring-training-broadcast-team-pitching-mlb/

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49. Why are the Phillies choosing now to say they aren’t shopping Bohm? Have they lost leverage in trade negotiations so Topper is assigned the task of stemming the angst in case nothing materializes? Kind of disingenuous when they could have stopped the speculation early on, don’t you think?

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    1. Perhaps, a smokescreen, they didn’t say they wouldn’t listen to a trade proposal …… and maybe “curley” isn’t all that attractive to potential suitors.

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       1. Just saw this. 6 teams Arrenado would agree on trade. Phillies on list.

          Eight-time All-Star willing to accept trade to six teams

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          1. Pass on Nolan – diminished bat speed, age, plus contract.

             His quality would be 3B, and I’d say he has 1-1.5 years of good 3B left. Even he stated yesterday that he would move to 1B for teams.

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    2. I doubt that the Bohm rumors end even now. No one paid attention when Bohm told the media shortly after the season’s end that he was confident he’d be back.

       The Phils general message that they were open to trade suggestions likely applied to Bohm and all but a few players on the team roster. Nothing has changed the reality that the Phils don’t have a Bohm successor waiting in the wings. It could look differently by mid-year or by the end of the 2025 season.

       This off-season, the 3rd base market is tight and expensive. The Phils need another long term commitment to an over 30 yo player like a hole in the head.

       The Phils aren’t usually overt in citing the players they covet. But they are about Sasaki. There’s no downside in such interest since he’s young, talented and affordable and doesn’t come saddled with the need to sacrific a compensatory pick.

       Sasaki can look for the best opportunity to be used effectively immediately by any of the 30th MLB teams. He won’t sign till January. Can and do the Phils wait till Sasaki decides before making any substantial move involving the rotation?

       It’s easy to see the Phils prioritizing improving the OF and the pen in the near term.

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    3. The optimist in me says if he stays he comes in with a bit of a chip on his shoulder…

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50. OLDruff – For you to know Colavito was traded for Harvey Kuenn, who was the batting champ the year before, you are old (like me). Tommy John was traded for Dick Allen but I had to look up that one.

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    1. i think Don pitched against Rocky in High School. In 1949. I like to see Turnbull back on cheap deal

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       1. 1949. Wow. Actually, though along those lines Carl Erskine spoke at one of my sports banquets. Think he just passed away recently at 95.

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       2. I heard Monday that Turnbull just had elbow surgery. Hopefully, if accurate, that’ll put all these sign Turnbull stories to bed.

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    2. The main impact of the Colavito trade was The Curse of Rocky Colavito, which has prevented my Indians/Guardians from winning a World Series since then. No way Jose Mesa blows the pivotal game vs the Marlins without it. %)

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51. Rule 5 this afternoon……Phillies could choose since they do have an open 40 slot.

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52. If I may add, the writer for Associated Press, Tom Withers, reported Colavito’s death and wrote that he was part of the controversial trade for “pitcher” Harvey Kuenn who actually played third base.

    The article also was accompanied by a photo of Colavito batting left handed. It must have been shown in reverse because he batted right handed and for those who are not familiar with Colavito, he had one of the strongest throwing arms of all time from right field.

    Thanks for letting me drone on.

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    1. Didn’t Rocky and Clemente have 2 of the stronger arms from RF? I remember Rocky and for some reason thought Clemente was really good in that aspect as well. He did bat RH. My guy was Johnny Callison because he batted left-handed. Did Callison have a strong throwing arm. I do not remember on him. Just that he played RF.

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53. Are the Phillies looking at Alonso? Projected lineup in 2026LF- Turner, RF- Harper, 1B-Alonso, DH-Schwarber, 3B-Bohm, SS-Miller, 2B- Stott, C-Reamuto, CF-Crawford

    Hmmmm I dont think so, but Drunken Phils fan is saying so on FB. Probably just easier to sign Santander, make him the LF or RF

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    1. Would anyone entertain the idea of trading Painter (perhaps along with a second tier prospect) to Houston for an extended Kyle Tucker? Couple years ago I would have said ‘NOOO!’…and Painter has shown why he’s still such a highly regarded prospect…but he’s still a prospect AND he’s a high risk as well. If (and only if) the Phillies acquire another established TOR guy, I would have to consider.

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       1. Mark – i just tried to post a comment about making Tucker my main focus. Long post, probably lost to the Abyss but essentially… I wouldn’t trade Painter… but I’d trade anyone else.

          Bohm, Miller, Rincones,and Abel…. Hopefully gets it done. But it’s likely … Miller, Crawford, Abel… + another. I gotta think about that one. Especially in can swap Ranger for Suzuki (V1’s proposal). Keep Bohm… and you have 3 patient hitters for the lineup (Stott should be 4) in the playoffs to balance Turner, Harper, and Schwarber.

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          1. Tac. Here is article with Tucker reference.

             Philadelphia Phillies Among Best Fits for Houston Astros Star Kyle Tucker

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          2. You want to gut out farm system. Imo that’s nuts.

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       2. I disagree with that assessment of Painter. He’s as low of a risk as they come…

          The only risk is counting on him too soon. I’ll liken him to Skenes.

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          1. DMAR…agree….Painter is in the Skenes potential neighborhood.

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54. From what I understand, the Phils appreciate the effort Harper has made to become an above-average first baseman. They see him prolonging his effective career playing at 1B. I’d find it shocking if the Phils make any move to rock the “Harper boat.” He’s already not getting the extension he wants.

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    1. Bryce Harper is now 32 and his dWar last season was -0.2 which is fine. I can see him staying at 1B for another 3 years and then going to DH for his remaining 4 years of the deal.

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       1. I can see BH being a Big Papi type at DH to finish out a great career…

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55. One more post … I think my focus would be to try to acquire Kyle Tucker if he is truly available.

    I’d offer Bohm, Miller, & Ricones,and Abel. I hope it wouldn’t need to include Crawford… but I’m guessing you might… maybe Caba instead. Then you gotta sign Tucker to a huge deal, likely 425+/11 years.

    If getting Tucker requires Crawford, I’d look at V1again’s idea of trading Ranger for Suzuki. You’d have a logjam of Tucker, Suzuki, Castellanos, Marsh, & Rojas. I’d expect you can trade Castellanos, his contract has to look better after seeing Soto’s 15 year deal.

    Get that done, and I think it can fix a good bit of lineup. Hurts to lose Milller, but Tucker is hitting his prime, a perennial Allstar and sneaky MVP. That is who you trade him for, if you.

    Next, I focus on getting Painter a SR duo for when Wheeler & Nola regress. Bohm to Seattle for Woo.

    Turner (SS) Harper (1B), Tucker (RF) Schwarber (DH), Suzuki (LF) Reamuto (C) Marsh (Crawford in the wings)(CF) Stott (2B) Sosa/Kemp/Clemens (3B). With Rojas coming in for defensive replacements

    Wheeler, Nola, Sanchez, Woo, Painter.

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56. Overall, Arenado isn’t an upgrade over Bohm at this point of their respective careers, especially offensively. Not sure why the Phillies would be involved. Hoping something breaks with Seattle for Gilbert. Seems Crochet scenario has played out. If the price for a starting pitcher is too high, they may simply go after another back end reliever to deepen the bullpen.

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57. Boston got Crochet.

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58. New discussion

    2024 Rule 5 Draft and Phillies Discussion | Phuture Phillies

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