226 thoughts on “Phillies Discussion, 9/23/24”

1. Will the Phillies clinch the NL East tonight?

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   1. Looking like a decent chance.

      Maybe they were just intentionally waiting til they got back home to win the division so the home town fans could celebrate with them.

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      1. Clever strategy, no doubt 🙂

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2. will Turnbull pitch one of the last games???

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   1. He just started throwing after a long layoff. Doubt he’s ready that quickly.

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3. Waiting too long to go to the bullpen. Nola is done in the 7th.

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   1. Yeah, shoulda grabbed him after the run scored. Definitely after the walk.

      But at least Strahm did his usual excellent job and kept things in check.

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4. 2nd goal down. NL East champs. Now need that 1st round bye.

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5. Congrats to the Phillies. It is always nice to be Division Champs. Now let’s stake the next step.

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6. Our guys are perfectly capable of winning it all and so are 4-5 other teams IMO. Should the cards fall our way I’ll be really happy for this team. All of them are very likeable guys. I enjoy watching them nightly even when they frustrate me.

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   1. Touché…….I think guys like Harper, JT wheeler, Nola and Casty….who never won it all….more than just want it now, but need it.

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      1. All the guys you mentioned are in their 30s and this is their best shot at winning it all AND they would be an integral part of it.

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7. Charlie Blackmon, who spent all 14 years with the Rockies, will retire after the season. He was a good (not great) player that seemed to do a lot of damage every time he faced the Phillies.

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   1. Agree, with your statement “good”, add; reliable, consistent, but not great. I think playing in Colorado helped his career and nothing wrong with that. After all, you can only play where you are assigned to play.

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   2. Charlie ‘Blackbeard’ Blackmon has now passed the torch unto Marsh to carry on the tradition.

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      1. So true – the closest thing Marsh had in MLB to a doppelganger.

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         1. Marsh, in the back of his mind, has to think, I better not ever get traded to the Yankees….if so, his great follicle civilization will come to an end.

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            1. abruptly!

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            2. He’ll either be clean shaven or brandishing the Mattingly moustache. Marsh doesn’t seem too much like a moustache guy.

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               1. Yep…..he seems to like that John Wick/Grizzly Adams look.

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8. Tigers are one hot team….30-17 since August 1 and look to be getting into the playoffs….looking at their roster and stats… Skubal, Greene and even Matt Vierling are all carrying the team to across the finish line for next week’s play-off start,

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9. 2024 Paul Owens Award winners….Justin Crawford and Eiberson Castellano….so very well deserved for both.

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10. Nice to see the win + celebration last night. Great model for October: Quality starting pitching, shut down pen, long ball, small ball, plus defense.

    Party as a team, celebrate with family.

    Also nice to see Topper taking the step back and letting players drive the celebration, while DaveD ‘navigating’ congrats to the players on the field. Would be nice if the team in green across the street has that humility in Coach / GM.

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    1. That Topper is just a class A human being, aside from also being a great baseball manager (best Phillies manager I’ve seen).

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       1. Its kind of crazy how many of the WIP caller/Twitter commenter types don’t understand how good of a manager he is. He absolutely never loses scope of the big picture and understands that over the course of 162 games, there is room for experimentation. You don’t have to win every night and a baseball season is not an NFL season (like many fans want to treat it like).

          Hes not going to bench a player every time they mess up because he knows that having the locker rooms trust is more important than going Larry Bowa on a guy and making them dread their day to day activities. When push comes to shove, they will always play for him. Kinda reminds me of Charlie…maybe not the best x’s and o’s guy of all time, but he has complete respect from the clubhouse.

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11. As of September 11, the Phils were 2nd in the NL (behind the Padres) and 5th in MLB with fewest games missed due to injury. Various people, including the manager, deserve credit for that.

    There is a wide disparity throughout baseball.. If I were negotiating, I’d make sure free agents considering Philly were aware of this. The Phils are not a young tea but they’re doing something right in player health, rest and conditioning.

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    1. It also has something to do with the players on the team. A lot of these guys are just playing through the pain. They’re only willing to come out of the lineup if it’s an injury that will only get worse and/or requires surgery to get better.

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       1. The saying was ‘luck favored the prepared’…not sure if that applies to sports. The injuries the Braves had this season more or less slowly swamped their ship…..if the Phillies had the same season ending or 60 day IL variety injuries to their top 4 players, it may not have come down to playing thru the injury. Like you mentioned….they would have come out of the lineup when either it gets worse or needed surgery for correction. Phils were lucky….JT and Turner’ were not season ending….and Ranger missed a few starts.

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12. Anyone who bought tickets to this game should get a full refund.

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    1. LOL….Walker doing what he does best

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       1. I don’t understand why Walker is still on the team.

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13. Unfit for any task. Unusable in any situation.

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14. oldruff. Looks like this was a throw away game from the beginning. Looks as though Phillies wanted to let Long Gone have more warmup time. Believe Allard is next up. It really is sad the Phillies have not been able to find a 5th starter who is able to keep the game competitive. If they end up the 2 seed, it will all fall back to the 5th starter or lack thereof.

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    1. Credit where it’s due; Allard, when he’s on, is a more than serviceable pitcher. But he just has no margin of error, so when he’s off he’s basically Taijuan 2.0.

       But he was on that inning. I honestly kinda hoped he would let Walker’s two inherited runners score just so his ERA was closer to what he deserves. But I’ll take a solid inning to blank the opposition, too.

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       1. Only needed one more inning for your hopes to be fulfilled. Actually, just really sad.

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15. Hoosier Don ……….. why didn’t you tell me tonight was “audition” nite for the 5th starter slot. I would have helped the next store neighbor clean his septic tank. By the way, I think Long Gone has that “smacker” pitch just about perfected.😅😂🤣

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    1. It is unbelievable that they simply give every 5th game away. Same two pitchers have delivered 10 runs tonight. Believe there is a saying, “doing the same thing over and over and over and expecting different results. Phillies have proven beyond a reasonable doubt that if you do the Long Gone/Allard combo you do get the same result. Not only may there be Long Gone Pastry Shop they may open a LGA combo snack shop on the concourse even for the playoffs. There is no way they will be on the playoff roster is there?

       The number 2 seed is coming into more focus by the pitch.

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16. Retire Walker and give him the ballpark kerosene concession.

    He has no business occupying a spot on he playoff roster. Mothball him till ST.

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    1. Walker won’t be on the playoff roster. I suspect he’s thrown his last pitch in 2024. Will get a chance in ST next season to show if there are any signs of life in that arm.

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       1. Pitchers who’s arms relied primarily on the splitter….eventually die by it…..does something to their arms and does not take long.

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17. Saw a stat this morning…….Walker has accomplished something no other Phillies pitcher has accomplished in almost 100 years…..an ERA over 7 with 80 innings pitched. The 1930 team, with over a 100 losses, had three pitchers do it.

    https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/PHI/1930.shtml

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18. This whole Walker thing makes me irate. What they are competing for now – the first round bye, is MUCH more important than winning the division. The idea that they throw Walker out there when they really need to win every game right now is beyond infuriating. And I agree with Don, how can you just let yourself lose every fifth game knowing, to a near certainty, that you are putting a guy out there that will cause you to lose. I get they don’t have a lot of options, but virtually any option is better than Walker – he’s not a major league pitcher.

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    1. I was thinking, Walker’s -1.6 WAR has to be historically bad for 83.2 innings. It’s not even close. For example, Kyle Farnsworth in 2002 had -2.5 WAR in only 46.2 innings!

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       1. It’s probably at or near the top for worst performances by a pitcher on a playoff team, let alone one fighting for best record in baseball.

          It doesn’t surprise me that a 95 loss team would continue using a terrible pitcher. But a 95 win team employing an automatic loss for the entire year is unheard of.

          It is genuinely impressive that we’ve punted 20% of our games for over half of the year and we’re still half a game off of the best team in baseball.

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          1. Dan. I could be wrong on this, but I think Roger Craig lost like 20 some games for the previous worst Mets. If Walker had taken his turn every 5th day, he may have matched that in losses.

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             1. Roger Craig was actually an okay pitcher – in 1962 he was a 92 ERA+ – just below league average. He just played on the worst team not named the 2024 White Sox.

                I am incredulous that, in a market so large, the White Sox are so bad. Unreal.

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                1. Jerry Reinsdorf is a terrible owner. In 2021, they had 93 wins. Now, they’re tanking and will set the record for most losses in a season. Reinsdorf deserves all the negative press.

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             2. Yep, he was a consecutive 20+ game loser for the Mets. 24 losses in ’62, 22 in ’63. The Mets nearly had THREE 20 game losers in ’62. Craig, Al Jackson (20), and Jay Hook (19). So I think it’s safe to assume Walker could have easily met that quota on that team.

                Fun fact; the record for losses in 33 or fewer games started is 29 set by Tricky Nichols in 1875. That was for a team that existed for only 1 season (New Haven Elm Citys) and had a record of 7-40.

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    2. catch. I do not understand either. This has been going on for like 6 weeks not. Romus gave a breakdown of the whole season for the 5th pitcher. But take the last 10 starts I am not sure they have won any. Actually, in most cases they are not even competitive in the game. One exception to what I just said was the game Allard started and walked everyone and trailed 4-0 and Long Gone entered for 3 innings against the Mets and Phillies came back and won 6-4. Not sure of any other examples.

       Topper claims they want the 1 seed. Do they really? I am not sure they do even though they are 28-13 in playoffs at CBP. There is one positive this morning. With only 4 games left Long Gone should be long gone from the mound for the remainder of the season.

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       1. I get with the way the Phillies are playing there aren’t many things to complain about, so we have to find something but all of the angst over the 5th starter spot is getting boring.

          They don’t have a 5th starter. They’ve tried multiple times to find that guy with little success but it’s not like they’ve tried to find that guy. Everyone is acting like they’ve just ignored the problem. And before I get the obligatory Trevor Bauer comment, don’t waste the keystrokes because he was never going to be an option, period.

          They have one of the top 3 records in all of baseball so it has not stopped them from meeting their overall goal of playing for a WS championship. The 5th starter isn’t pitching in the playoffs so it’s an irrelevant problem until ST in 2025.

          Once they get that 1st round bye, they’ve accomplished everything needed to put them in the best spot going into the playoffs. Don’t care about the Dodgers for best record because the Dodgers are losing in the 1st round of the playoffs anyway.

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          1. to do them justice they do have Turnbull so this could be a holding pattern until his return

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19. Brewers have 5 games left, 2 vs the Pirates (no Skenes) and 3 vs the Mets. The Brewers are losing at least 1 game.

    Anyways, if the Phillies can’t go 2-2 with Cristoper Sanchez pitching tonight at home and no CJ Abrams for the Nationals, then the Phillies deserve to get what’s coming to them.

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20. I do not see any way the Brewers can get into one of top sports. I think they are a lock for the 3 seed.

    Romus. Trivia. I do not get Phillies broadcasts when they play teams near me. So last night Cub guys got on the helmets. Guess back in the 70s the guys who did not wear a helmet were grandfathered. So, who was the last guy in the majors who did not wear a helmet. Clue. 1979 and catcher for Red Sox. At least they said that. This topic came up when Walker actually struck out one of the Cubs and they were looking at how much gear he had on to bat. Forget who the batter was.

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    1. I hear all of you, but I’m superstitious with that stuff, until you’ve got the bye, you don’t have it. I hated that they were okay with treating that as a loss. And share the same thoughts about how amazing this team has done in light of their giving away every 5th game for 2/3 of the season. That’s astonishing and utterly unacceptable moving forward.

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    2. Carlton Fisk???

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       1. They said he was the backup catcher. So not Fisk. If they were correct. They were commenting throughout that game seemed like a ST game. I turned it off at 10-2

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    3. Don ….Bob Montgomery?

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       1. Romus. Correct. They said he was the last player. Sounded like he wore a hat that had something more solid in the front. Believe maybe it was Maury Wills that had one like that. Maybe many did at one time.

          For winning you get a nice pastry at the new pastry shop next season in CBP.

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21. I got a lot of push back here for suggesting the Phils sign Trevor Bauer to a league minimum deal when it became clear Spencer Turnbull could not soon return from the IL and that TaijuanWalker could not perform the job he’s being paid to do. “Oh no, can’t do that. Think of the team chemistry!” Schmemistry! Nothing looks less energized orless cohesive than a Phils team playing and losing behind a bunch of misfits in the #5 slot in the rotation.

    New topic. Watching Anthony Santander against the Yankees reminded me that no matter how this season ends for the Fightin’s, Santander would be a great off-season signing. He would slot in nicely behind Harper in the batting order. He’s got the light tower power of Schwarber without a lot of the swing and miss. He represents an instant improvement in the OF and would protect the team offensively as the contracts of key hitters lapse.

    The Competitive Balance Tax would hit the Phils in signing another major deal but other teams are likely to remain or enter luxury tax hell this off-season. So the Phils are likely to be in the company of the Yankees, Dodgers, Mets, and perhaps the Braves, Astros and others.

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    1. Dude, forget about Bauer. Every team needs pitching and nobody wants to touch him. Forget about chemistry, I don’t think Middleton will give the ok for that signing.

       As for your new topic, it’s not really a new topic since you’ve previously mentioned that you do like Santander. We get it, you like the guy. Personally, I don’t think the Phillies are going after any OF unless Castellanos gets moved. And no, I don’t think Hayes gets moved either.

       As for the CBT, just because other teams are paying it, doesn’t mean the Phillies have to. That’s not a reason. That’s like my coworker justifying having his dog chained up for 20 hours a day because other people are doing it. The Phillies will do what’s best for the Phillies.

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       1. Your analogy, Guru, is a really weak one which I will get to in a second.

          IThere has been a chorus here (which I have been part of) critical of Walker and the fill-ins to Walker’s #5 slot in the rotation. I hate merely bemoaning a situation which I find correctable which the team chose not to correct. Dombrowski mentioned this past off-season that the Phils were “all in” which I think was more hortatory than actual.

          What shouldn’t be lost on anyone (but apparently was) is that the CBT has financial and draft pick implications for teams offending 3 years in a ro and beyond. If the Phils are socked with a luxury tax surcharge by signing a guy like Santander, Profar or Tyler O’ Neill, they can afford it following theseasons they’ve had at the box office and with other revenue. If they’re pushed back 10 slots in the amateur draft, that has the potential to impact them competitively. But if abunch of other teams are being penalized in the same way, the impact is minimized as the most competitive teams end up in the same jar. That’s why I find your analogy ‘off the chain.’

          .

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          1. My initial reasoning still applies. Just because other people do it, it doesn’t mean that the Phillies have to do it. There are other competitive teams who are NOT doing it like the Braves or Guardians. And if the Phillies can get it done WITHOUT getting the punishment, wouldn’t that give the Phillies an advantage?

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    2. Fight, I agree with you on Bauer. The only good thing about Walker’s September is he has now proven he should be nowhere near a playoff roster… Heck, I’d even ban him from the South Philly Stadium Complex. He has bad mojo. Bauer had to be better. And if he were a problem, they could cut bait and let him go. But I think, after what he went through and how hard he’s tried to get back to the bigs, he’d be a choir boy.

       Regarding Santander… not sure how much it would cost to sign him but I wouldn’t break the bank for another .235 hitter who strikes out a lot and can’t steal a base. Seems we have enough of those guys already.

       Again… not sure what these guys would cost (and I’m not sure how good their defense is) but I’d rather see someone with more “bat to ball” skills… someone like Jurickson Profar or Lourdes Gurriel.

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       1. Profar is looking to get paid. You could argue that this year could be an outlier since his career OPS is .728. This is the same guy that only had .774 OPS at Coors field last season (.618 on the road). He’ll still likely get a 3/50 deal from somebody.

          Lourdes Gurriel Jr. is still under contract with the DBacks.

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       2. It’s been literally less than a month since Bauer got into a fight with people on Twitter. If he can’t even keep his (digital) mouth shut while looking for a job, I have no faith that he could do so after getting signed.Also, Robinson Cano (yes, that one) hit .431/.475/.639 this year in that same league. At 41. Should teams be signing him this offseason?

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          1. I am curious….wonder how many other team blog commenters are voicing their desire and itching for their respective teams to sign Bauer?

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             1. I’m guessing fans of the Dodgers or Guardians wouldn’t make the list. Unlikely, too, would be fans of teams in rebuild mode. Why bother in their case?

                How would you feel if a team like the Braves — who signed Marzell Ozuna with his checkered abuse history — inked Bauer and he helped them to a crown as a 3/4 starter? Bauer’s not every team’s flavor but then again neither isTaijuan ($18 M x 4) Walker. Dombrowski blew it on Walker and had a chance to compensate with a low cost move he didn’t make.

                I know your views on the Mexican League and maybe you have you have similar views on the Japanese league Ohtani came from. Top flight players make it out of the minor leagues every year. I don’t see a point in denigrating a player based on the league he’s in currently. 99 MPH which he’s been hitting this year plays up in every baseball league I’ve ever heard of.

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                1. Marcell Ozuna was already under contract with the Braves so they were doing damage control, similar to Odubel Herrera with the Phillies.

                   If the Braves want to sign Bauer, let them do it. I believe in winning with some measure of integrity. If you’re on the Bauer bandwagon, then you should convince Middleton to do it. Good luck with that.

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22. This current Phillies team is weird. I think they are, overall, better than the 2022 and 2023 models – it’s not a mirage (especially the starting pitching and bullpen). That said, this team can beat any other team and it could lose to any other team. If you told me they would win the WS, it wouldn’t surprise me. If you told me they were going to be knocked out 3-0 in the NLDS that wouldn’t surprise me either. Now, while this can always be true in baseball, I had a lot of confidence that the 2008-12 teams would not get knocked out early and, for the most part, I was correct.

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    1. I agree, the pitching has been great. What’s holding back the Phillies is that the hitting is wildly streaky. There’s just way too much swing and miss on this team, and that’s coming from everybody (old and young players). The only player who really makes contact is Bohm.

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    2. You had confidence that the ’08 team wouldn’t get knocked out early? I had no confidence in that pitching staff. Hamels ascending beyond his mortal limitations was not something I predicted (and I was ALWAYS a huge Hamels fan). And every pitcher after him was essentially a coinflip on whether they could give our offense a chance.

       Now I will say I never once had a doubt they would put runs on the board, and you can’t win a game without scoring. So in that sense, I guess I did trust the ’08 team a little more.

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       1. Yes, I did. I didn’t know they would win the WS, but I had a lot of confidence that team would fight and not fold its tent. That team had a ton of MoJo. Starting in mid-September, they were world beaters.

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       2. Nostalgia is good for adjusting memory. The 2008 team was a complete surprise to win any playoff series. The 2011 team was the best in baseball and lost in the 1st round. That team had the same chance of losing in any round just like this team does.

          The real shocker was that they lost the series to Arizona last year. Everyone expected they were going back to the WS.

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          1. Maybe the 2008 team was a surprise to you (to win some playoff series), but I never felt that in real time (although I was pleasantly surprised they won the WS). I felt they were going to go far and were ready after the disappointing loss in 2007 to Colorado. They had a lot of MoJo at the time.

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          2. Phillies were fortunate Rays knocked out the Sox…..I could not see the Phillies beating the Sox in the Series after going 1-2 in the regular season against them.

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23. AFL Selections made….Crawford not going…..I thought for sure he would be on the list…..wonder if this year he will be at the Complex for the fall workouts.

    Rincones going back again….also Rincon for the first time along with Jordan Dissin getting the call to catch.

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    1. Rincones is going to get more ABs to make up for his lost time on the IL and I figured he would go for this reason. AA stars usually do not go to the AFL (at least from the Phillies), so this didn’t surprise me at all. I think they would rather he go home, rest and get stronger than play another month or so.

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       1. Perhaps he will stick around at the Complex for the strength, performance and conditioning sessions before heading back home out west for his own personal training.

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          1. Crawford? I don’t think he would be invited to attend a Fall Camp or if he would even accept. With the new MiLB CBA, players can’t be required to attend. However, he may opt to come to the Complex to get ready for something else. I didn’t mean to be coy, but there’s a reason I inserted the November 9-24 line in the Important Dates section. I don’t know anything for sure, but maybe. That could explain his non-participation in the AFL, right?

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             1. Yeah…I guess he will be on his way to japan if he plays in those games.

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24. Phillies better not fall asleep at the wheel, San Diego is eyeing the bye as well.

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    1. Bye will either be the Dodgers or SD. Wild card team can’t get the bye.

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       1. did not know that, thanks for the info.

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25. Romus, Crawford was interviewed during the third inning of the Phillies game. He mentioned he is looking forward to representing the USA this fall. So, there it is. Certainly, a bigger thrill than the AFL, I guess. I remember Alec Bohm was on the USA Olympic team and missed out due to COVID in 2020 either because games were cancelled/postponed or because he made the Phillies roster.

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    1. I thought that was a nice interview. He handled the questions well. He seems really excited to play for Team USA.

       Romus. Braves vs Mets moved to DH for Monday. Cub guys also mentioned that Braves vs KC is in danger this weekend. What happens if they would lose out on all 5 games because of the weather?

       Also after Stott error they mentioned Phillies have 2 middle infield errors tonight. Cubs have 16 for the season. That is pretty good defense.

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       1. Stott has a chance for the Gold Glove this year….right now he sits at third in the NL by SABR-SDI metrics….do not think he will get it however.

          Brice Turang11.9….Ketel Marte 6.0….Bryson Stott 3.9

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          1. Romus …….. why do you think Counsell wanted to leave the Brewers for the Cubs?

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             1. Skeet…..$$$$$

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                1. It is always the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$s

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       2. I think Turner has 17 by himself. If he has all day to throw it, he’ll throw it away. After the season, I’d sit down with him and ask him if he’d like to play the outfield.

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    2. Thanks Jim…missed that conversation.

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26. T Mac and Kruk feel Hoerner of the Cubs will win again. He is really good. They were pitting Stott vs him.

    Also, Cub guys showed a nice segment before game honoring Frankie Two Scoops. Believe they said 25 years at stadiums.

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27. Romus. Cub guys just said what JT really is and also what his wife calls him. Do you know those? Cub guys are not really into the game too much. But at least it is a big screen. Phillies are on the Extra Innings 8 screen pics. But kind of small.

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28. Guys a little more fun trivia. On this day in history Tommy John had Tommy John surgery. He won 288 games. Were more wins before or after the surgery? Also, who had the 2nd Tommy John surgery? He is still involved in baseball today. Finally at the age of 59 Satchel Paige was signed and pitched how many scoreless innings only giving up 1 hit?

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    1. Satchel ……… 3 …. loved him. “Don’t run when you can walk” and “never look over your shoulder, someone might be gaining on you”!

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       1. You are correct.

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29. Man, really gotta wonder what Kerkering’s numbers would look like if the umps could correctly call his pitches. The walk should have been a strikeout and the infield hit should have, too.

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    1. He doesn’t call anything on the edges. Been on his butt the whole game.

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       1. It’s not just this ump. Most of them miss at least some of his pitches because they move so much.

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       2. oldruff. Give him some slack. Maybe the ump is tired. LOL

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30. congrats Phil for clinching at least a number two seed! Phil’s win Brewers just lost to the Bucs!

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31. With the Brewers loss Phillies clinch the 1st round bye.

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32. Braves have caused kind of a nightmare scenario for them and the Mets. They refused to move the last 2 games or start times. Thus, those games now have been moved to a DH on Monday. Mets now have to fly to Milwaukee and then possibly back to Atlanta for a DH to decide the final spot for playoffs that begin on Tuesday. Guess MLB moved the times of the game between Tigers and Rays but made Atlanta do nothing. Sherman had the write up on all of this. Apparently, Mets tried and failed to get games moved up because Braves had their pitching set up.

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    1. Might work to the Mets benefit since they are playing a Brewers team that is now locked into the 3rd spot and will need to get their rotation ready for the wildcard round of the playoffs. Suspect they will be resting some guys.

       Meanwhile, the Braves are playing a KC team that is fighting to get that last wildcard spot and will be scratching and clawing for every out.

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    2. Those games might not even get played if they don’t effect seeding…

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33. ahhhh… so this is what flying 1st class feels like?

    (1st round bye upgrade)

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34. 3up. It could do as you mention. But it could also work the other way. Lots of times when a team plays the young guys they play well. Agree they will not see best Brewer pitchers at least not for long.

    Just looked at standings. Philly and LA both at 94. LA has one game more to play. So, 1 and 2 seed can go either way. Brewers are 3. Appears now it may once again be SD and Arizona in the 4 vs 5. They have passed Mets. Would it not be weird if somehow the Mets and Braves do not need to play that DH on Monday to determine the 6th seed. Wonder if they would only play 1 if the playoff is determined by game 1. Hmm. Sale and Fried now have to pitch in the KC series rather than the last two vs Mets. So, if Monday is needed, they will not be available for those games. Mets are one game up at the moment.

    AL is really tight as well. NY and Cleveland are both 92. Not sure who has tie breaker. Houston is 3. O’s are 4. KC and Detroit are 5 and 6 now with KC owning the tie breaker. Minny is 2 down. Will be really difficult to get up to 6th spot. Plus, they have been terrible lately.

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35. Romus. oldruff got the Satchel Paige trivia correct. I am disappointed you have not answered the 2nd pitcher to have TJ surgery. Team he is with will be in the playoffs next week. oldruff did you realize that Tommy John is really Hoosier Tommy?

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    1. Don….you ask too many questions….brain cannot keep up…..Cheryl John was on with her husband Tommy yesterday after the 50th anniversary of his surgery….they get calls form college pitchers who need TJ and ask about it……..they have never got one call from any professional pitchers who had to have TJ. My friend’s son had TJ while in college….but worked hard and got darfted last year, and now was awarded Astros Minor League Pitcher of the Year two days ago …family and son Ethan flew down to Houston for the award ceremony at Minute Maid.

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       1. Romus. At our age one needs brain teasers to keep it sharp. Brent Strom the pitching coach for the Dbacks was the 2nd TJ recipient. That is really supercool for your friend and his son. Kudos to them. I get the high school and college kids contacting Tommy John. I wonder if the freshman kid who played with my grandson on the Bulls did when he had it at 14. A freshman. I told you he now pitches with both hands. I have not seen him throw left-handed. Their teams will play again one last time next Spring but since not a conference game neither will pitch. Both will be at SS.

          But I do not get the MLB guys. What would be the reason there? Is there something contractual that they would have to pay Tommy John for consulting maybe? 2nd part of TJ question was did he win more games before or after surgery. 288 total. More wins after the surgery. Schambi spelling on the Cubs did not give number. He and Walton did the late night Pac12 basketball games for years. They were always doing trivial stuff like that.

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          1. Hoosier Tommy won 124 games before surgery 164 games after surgery. Dr. Jobe performed the surgery on Brent Storm. Interesting note is that the success rate for a 2nd Tommy John operation has now climbed from 50% to somewhere between 60 — 70%.

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             1. oldruff. You are so much better than Romus. He always complains. LOL One reason maybe they are being done so much younger possibly. I mentioned the 14-year-old here a couple years back.

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                1. Don…that is it….I am putting you on my ‘rocco list’…LOL

                   I think MLB teams have their own protocols for rehabbing….maybe it is contractual and orgs do not want their players listening to outside sources.

                   Skeet……the 2nd TJ lately has been done with the ‘internal brace’ procedure……success rate has been higher than past 2nd TJ post operative pitching….and return time is shorter. Strider had it done this past summer. We will see if it holds up.

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36. Estevez again got hit hard last night. He doesn’t instill a load of confidence in me when he comes into a close game. His FB to me seems really straight and not much life on it.

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    1. With the emergence of Hoffman and Strahm do you think they will attempt to retain Estevez when he becomes a FA?

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       1. I don’t think so. He’s useful for this year but as between him and Hoffman, I allocate the money to Hoffman, who is a better pitcher.

          To put a finer point on it, Jeff Hoffman is probably the best reliever we’ve had since Ryan Madson at his peak. He’s a damned good and reliable pitcher.

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       2. Think it depends on what happens in the playoffs. IF he pitches well they will try to resign him, but they will prioritize Hoffman over Estevez if they have to make a choice.

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          1. Estevez is decent – I feel a lot better having him close games than Craig Kimbrel. I have always felt that Kimbrel cost us a WS appearance. The bullpen, overall, is much better this year and it should noticeable during the playoffs.

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       3. I know some here really like Estevez. He has for me never been the guy I really put all my trust in. I am not his big fan, and you can go back to when he first arrived. I hope he is very successful this postseason. But I have my concerns. Just my opinion.

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          1. I don’t disagree with you. He’s okay, but a lot better than Kimbrel, Soto and Dominguez. I wouldn’t waste FA money on him – or, if I did, it would be last resort. That said, you don’t want to be sending away prospects like Klassen and Aldegheri every year for a two month rental. Not a sustainable model.

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          2. Estevez has a funky delivery which helps him since I’m sure he hides the ball well. On the other hand, repeating that funky delivery seems to be a struggle. His career walk rate is 3.5 and it wasn’t a surprise that he was having a career year for the Angels (1.6 WAR) when his walk rate was down to a crazy 1.3. Now that he’s joined the Phillies, his walk rate (3.0) is a lot closer to his career average. However, he’s still good enough to close games and we need to hope that we see more of the Angels version of Carlos Estevez in the playoffs.

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37. Easy to agree with dmar about Estevez’ fastball. Seems to be straight. Have to remember that it is a lot easier closing games for the Angels than it is for the Phillies, especially in high leverage post season games.

    That’s why Kennedy had so much trouble when they got him from a then not so good Rangers team. Once the immense pressure was on, he really felt it. Hope Estevez comes through when the team needs it.

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38. I hope the Phils re-sign Spencer Turnbull, who pitched well as a starter with limited work. As has been pointed out, Andrew Painter will be on an innings limit if he’s good to go next season.

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    1. Spencer Turnbull is only going to sign with a team that guarantees him a starting spot. He’s going to get a lot of interest. The only way he’s signing with the Phillies is if the Phillies offload Walker. Odds are, he’s going elsewhere.

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       1. We will see. I think injuries are going to scare off many other suitors. I could see a scenario where he stays here on a pretty reasonable one or two year deal (probably one year – maybe with a team option) I don’t see Walker posing a threat to anyone, Turnbull included. I am a big fan of Turnbull.

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          1. If the Pirates or Royals guarantee a spot for $5M, Turnbull is gone. He’s made it very clear that he wants to start.

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             1. Turnbull might want to be a starter but any team signing him better have his replacement ready since he will not make it through an entire season.

                He hasn’t thrown more than 56 innings in a season since 2019 so if the Pirates/Royals want to pay him $5 million for what will probably be a dozen starts, good for them.

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                1. Agree with you, I don’t see Turnbull making it through an entire season and as far as guaranteeing him a slot ……. you can forget that! Walker has proven his stuff no longer plays (except off the walls and over the fence). I don’t see any way out of that predicament. $$,$$$,$$$ 🕊 DFA…….. ouch!

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          2. Why would Turnbull even consider re-signing with the Phillies if he is not guaranteed a starting job in the rotation out of ST!

             If Dombrowski can move Walker…and what are the odds of that happening, then Turnbull could see a window of opportunity opening up for him in the rotation. If Walker is still here…then Turnbull moves on.

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             1. DD is going to move Walker alright, to the DFA aisle. Does everyone really comprehend just how horrendous Walker really was? He will probably be let go or sold for a bag of peanuts with the team taking on salary. He will not be in the rotation next year. There is clearly an opening for Turnbull to start the year. But, yes, if he wants no competition at all and wants to pitch for the Marlins or White Sox, have at it. It’s all up to him. But if he’s not here it’s probably more about the Phillies not wanting to take chances with his health.

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                1. The main 2 reasons why players change teams are money and ego. Since Turnbull has a large injury history, nobody is going to give him big money until he can stay healthy. So the best situation for him is to start and stay healthy for as long as he can. If the Phillies don’t have an opening, he’s not coming back. Turnbull’s main focus is to resurrect his career as a starter, not to win a title (although it would be nice). This is his ego talking.

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39. Couple things for the 5th starter. It was stated that the Phillies and Dodgers both at the deadline put in very strong offers for Crochet of the White Sox and Sox turned both down. I do not think they will turn a solid offer down this Winter. Regarding Estevez. Saw today article that said KC or Philly are most likely spots for Tanner Scott. I know there are many here who are not fans of Scott. Just mentioning what I saw. This had him at 63M. Article other day had projection for Estevez at 69M. Not sure I am big on either, but I like Scott better than Estevez. Some keep mentioning Kimbrel. Kimbrel really has not been good for several years. Amazing he held on. Seemed to begin the year well but as games went on in the season he dropped off. Even Baltimore who needed him had seen enough. Catch. I am not sure they will move Walker. I am just crossing my fingers he is not on the playoff roster. That would be wasting a spot.

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    1. The days of Longman may be over, just be very wary in the spring of a pitcher named Neuman ………… incredible the amount of rebranding done today …….. and it is really hard to flush 36 million down the commode.

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       1. The only thing worse than flushing $36 million down the drain is paying that money and deciding that you have to keep pitching Walker and have him lose almost every single start he makes. The money spent won’t make him any better. Yeah, they will want to give him a chance to turn things around in ST, but the stupidity of them throwing him out there over and over and over again just to lose every freaking game needs to stop soon. It’s a sunk cost. He’s horrible. Move on.

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          1. I believe if this team goes on and wins the WS, Middleton would bite the monetary bullet of that $36M and let Walker be DFA’d. Walker finally gets his ring as being part of the team.

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             1. Walker will be in ST in 2025 with the Phillies. They have no reason to DFA him until they see how he throws. If he has nothing, they won’t hesitate to cut him loose.

                $36 million hurts but it’s not a big deal for a team with $300 million payroll.

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       2. neuruff. I laughed so hard out mowing when I saw this. But you fell short. It will now be Neupitch Neuman. The neupitch is the Leaper. Guaranteed to leap off your bat and over the wall.

          We kid and laugh. But Walker needs to be commended. He and his agent got the Phillies to spend 72M on him. If not the Phillies, then some other team who is still thanking themselves for restraint would have spent almost as much.

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40. Romus. My belief win or lose in playoffs both Casty and Neuman begin the season with the Phillies. At least Spring Training for Neuman.

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41. I have to give a little credit to the White Sox players as they are trying very hard not to get that 121st loss. They are on their way to sweeping the Angels if you can believe that.

    Unfortunately, they’re facing the Tigers on the road in the next series.

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    1. The worst Phillies team was the 1941 team….they lost 111 games and won 43 in a 155 game season…..a .279 winning percentage. They played one game vs the Cubs at Shibe Park on July 17th….tied at 2-2 after 6 innings.

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42. After the start Castellanos got off to, I have to really commend where he is at today. I had written that if his average got up to .260, that would be a great year considering the first two months.

    I also wrote that ending at .250 would be fine. Today he sits at .253 with over 20 homeruns and 86 RBIs. Say what you want about the guy but he plays every single day and hustles 100% of the time.

    His defense isn’t the greatest and his routes to the ball a bit flawed but when he gets to the ball, he catches it. His chasing that outside breaking ball is maddening but he is a staple on this team.

    He will NOT be moved this off season and he’ll complete this contract. He is very popular with his teammates and the fans really like him a lot. The Phillies could do a lot worse than Nick Castellanos.

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    1. I agree 100%. Casty can play for any team I coach. He plays the way it was meant to be played. He is not the greatest at anything but always gives you, his best.

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       1. Don……MLB Network has the A’s -Rangers game….sold out Coliseum for the A’s last game there in Oakland.

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    2. Could they really do much worse than Castellanos? You’re really giving him too much credit. His defense isn’t just “not the greatest”, it’s literally the WORST of any qualified player. Not just of any qualified OF… any qualified PLAYER.

       And I’m also not going to give him credit for ending the year above a .250 average. He’s a bat-only player with a 104 wRC+ FOR THE YEAR. Actually, not just for the year. His career as a Philly is a 103 wRC+. Three years we’ve been putting up with a guy whose only value is his bat, and even that is barely above average.

       He’s been worth 1.3 fWAR… since he’s come to Philly. His entire 3 years here has produced less WAR than Edmundo Sosa has this year alone. Weston Wilson has matched his WAR output this year in almost FIVE HUNDRED fewer PAs. Cal Stevenson is a third of the way there in 625 fewer PAs.

       You’re probably right that he’s not going anywhere. But doing worse than him? They’d have to actively try to achieve that goal.

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       1. Also, I want to reiterate this for the section of people who give him credit for intangibles. He absolutely is well-liked, I will give you that.

          He absolutely does NOT give it his all every game. He is the only professional player I can ever remember that explicitly stated that he cannot stay focused during the entire game in the regular season. Those are HIS words. He is not always thinking about what he can do on the next play. He is not actively backing up throws to 1B. And he is not sprinting every time he puts the ball in play. It just looks like he is because his sprint looks like a jog.

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          1. Dan….come on, how do you really feel about Nick?

             I do think many see the last two months….BA .280plus and OPS .800plus…. and get a little enamored on his rebound.

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             1. He gets a little extra flak because I have to sit here and read how bad Nola’s contract is every time he has a bad start, but Nick gets the benefit of being a good teammate.

                Also, thankfully he’s been en fuego again the past couple weeks with the bat (and we all hope that continues through the playoffs). But until last week he was in ANOTHER slump of over a month. 08/09-09/16 he was hitting .236/.302/.386 for a 93 wRC+. And that went completely unnoticed by way too many people.

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                1. Because you and I actually AGREE in our assessment of Castellanos, I want to bring in an outfielder who can reliably protect Harper in the order. I can live with Castellanos as a #6/7 bat in the order and am resigned to the likelihood that he’ll play out the 2 remaining years on his contract in Philly.

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43. Joe Blanton may be the last person who came to Phillies camp with a guaranteed #5 slot in the rotation. It probably happens twice in a generation. Signing Turnbull with a token raise gives him a chance to compete for that job in a familiar environment. Teams interested in a more high end gamble will go after Shane Bieber with his much better pedigree..

    I don’t see any universe where Taijuan Walker discourages any pitcher fearful of the competition Walker provides.

    Turnbull, at age 32, would be worth it to the Phils if he does nothing than hold a spot till Painter is ready sometime in ’25. But teams need more than 5 starters to make it through a season. The Phils have only Wheeler and Nola as “mark it in ink” stalwarts you can project as 200 innings guys. A healthy Turnbull pitching as a starter the way he did this year will be fine. Give him contract incentives or a second year vesting if he makes it to 150 innings is all he could ask and all the Phils should need to offer him.

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    1. As a 5th in the rotation….you know who would come inexpensive on a one- year pillow contract……Patrick Corbin……has been terrible for the last 4 years, but has not missed a start in 9 years. Could get a rebound year from him.

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       1. LOL Oh Gosh we’re about to go into hopefully a very deep playoff run. I don’t want to start this early worrying about next seasons 5th starter.

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          1. DMAR…..hah, remember what John Middleton said when he hired Dombrow……he wants his guys to think 5 years down the road.

             If I were running the team….Helene is suppose to out of the Tampa area in a few days…….give the lads off on Monday, then fly them down to the Complex Tuesday morning. Practice Tuesday afternoon and a sim game on Wednesday, and Thursday morning another practice, and fly back to Philly Thursday afternoon. Get them traveling like it is a regular season schedule. And Friday have a walk-thru and a little batting practice.

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44. I too am hoping the Phillies have a great playoff run. I agree with some who have said this team is capable of winning it all. They are also just as capable of going out in the NLDS. I am pretty sure the pitching will be ok both from the starting and bullpen. I am not as confident as some here are with Estevez. But I hope he gets opportunities to close, and he is great.

    Romus. I need your help. This is a simple question. Some here are pounding on Casty. Casty will never win a Gold Glove. Casty will never win a batting title. Most likely neither a home run nor rbi title either. Casty does chase that breaking pitch about 6 inches outside too much. But he has lots of company in that. I think he is adequate. I know some disagree. It was even mentioned he does not hustle over and back up a throw to 1B. I am trying to think of the last time i saw a right fielder do that. Catchers used to hustle down the line and back up an errant throw from the infield as well. One thing I do know is this. Every day when Rob comes to the park, he has ONE player who he pencils into the lineup. Casty. He plays every day, and I may be wrong on this but do not believe he has been taken out for defensive purposes. I know not too long ago he had only missed a few innings in blow out games. He may sit out a game this weekend if things are settled. But I doubt it. Someone above said he is at .253 now. I do not know what the average batting average is anymore. I know almost no one hits .300 anymore. Sometimes no one does in a league.

    The question. During the time Phillies have been good who are the right fielders? 64 was Johnny Callison. He was my hero. Only saw a couple games on tv with Dizzy and Pee Wee. But he was the reason I became a Phillies fan. The 70s early 80s. My memory says it was mostly Bake McBride. I do not think it was the entire time though. The 90s Was it Lenny Dykstra or was he in CF? Late 2000s to 12 Shane Victorino. I may be missing someone. All were pretty good, and I just realized something. They were all left-handed hitters as well. Bake and Shane were better defenders. Lenny a weak throwing arm.

    No idea on LF in 64. The Bull was there in the 70s and early 80s. Forget the 93. Pat the Bat in late 2000s. I do not remember any of them being outstanding defenders. Schwarbs started there and he would fit in their mold on defense.

    I am not an analytics person. I am an eyeball person. But I must see from Casty the same thing Topper sees every day. I do respect everyone’s opinion on any topics here. Maybe not Romus all the time since he threw me overboard yesterday. LOL.

    Hope everyone is safe from the storm. We are to get lots of wind and rain today from its aftermath.

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    1. League average stat line this year is .244/.312/.400, so Casty is just barely above league average. Unfortunately, he gives away a decent chunk of that offensive value by hitting into double plays at a pretty high rate and being a bad base runner.

       I’m not sure if you thought he did or just remembered him because of Dykstra (CF, by the way. He only ever played 85 innings in LF, the rest was all in center), but Vic only ever really played RF for us in 2007 (with Rowand in CF). He was almost exclusively CF every other year with us.

       Other notable RF in Phillies history: Hunter Pence, Jayson Werth, Jay Johnstone (shared time with McBride in ’77), Jim Eisenreich, Bobby Abreu, Chuck Klein (nicknamed the Hoosier Hammer, by the way), Von Hayes (played everywhere), and, of course, Bryce Harper.

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       1. Johnny Callison, Gabby Cravath, Bake McBride

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       2. Thanks Dan. I remembered Hays, Abreu, and Eisenreich. Was thinking they were not on the playoff teams. But I was just going from memory. Hays was a 5-1 guy from the Indians. Abreu was another really good player that was not adored by some Philly fans. Now he was one who some felt did not always give maximum effort.

          I totally spaced Werth and Pence. Werth would have been the RF guy for the 08 team. Hunter was even on one of the telecasts this Summer and I forgot him. He was short termed. But he did state that night that the 2011 team was the best he was ever on, and he won two WS with Giants. Hunter was a total effort guy. Kind of in the Pete Rose mold. I liked him.

          I did not think Lenny was correct. I remembered Rowland. So, who was the RF for the 93 team. Also how does Werth defensive metrics compare to Casty? The thing I remember most was Jayson was always one the guys who saw the most pitches in an at bat.

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          1. Abreu, unfortunately, did not get any playoff games with the Phils. But he was on a couple good teams that finished second in the east. And yeah, he was an awesome player, but it’s definitely fair to say he didn’t always go all-out.

             Hayes was on the ’83 team. Eisenreich was ’93.

             Werth was an excellent defender in his 20s. He lost a step in his 30s and became below average, but he was never as bad as Casty.

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          2. Don…LF in ’93…Thompson and Pete Stinkaviglia.

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45. Who was the guy the Phillies traded for with the Astros? He played RF for a few years.

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46. Oh, right. Hunter Pence.

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47. WES COVINGTON – 1964 LF

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    1. Also Danny Cater (until he got hurt), and then Frank Thomas (until he got hurt).

       Pretty sure they were the right handed side of the platoon with Covington.

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    2. Actually, I think Tony Curry also got a few at bats in LF in 64 (:

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       1. In 1964, Tony Curry was with the Cleveland’ minor league…Alex Johnson was playing some LF in 1964. A great book on the 1964 Phils is “The Year of Blue Snow”

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          1. My bad!

             I was thinking about Johnny Briggs, one of the 1st year bonus babies (along with Rick Wise and – I think- Dave Bennett – Dennis’ brother).

             Phils had to keep all 3 on the roster in 64 or else risk losing them.

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48. Ohtani is .010 from winning a triple crown. Of course, it’s too late now to win the batting title. Chris Flexen kept the Pale Hose from breaking the loss record. He is now 3-15 with a not too grotesque ERA of 4.95.

    I can remember as a preteen the first two years of the Amazin’ Mets. In 1962 Roger Craig was 10-24 with 233 IP and a 4.51 ERA. The next year he went 5-22 in 236 innings with a (great by today’s standards) 3.38 ERA.

    It has been said to lose that many games in a single season, one needs to be a pretty good pitcher to be sent out there every fifth day. Who was the guy who pitched for Oakland that lost over 20 games. Remember?

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    1. Was it Dave Stewart?

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       1. Kingman……The Oakland A’s only had one 20 game loser in their history…the Philly A’s had quite a few after Connie Mack started selling the star players off. The Phillies had a few dozens…but the very last two were Robin Roberts (’57) and Steve Carlton (’73)…..Carlton the very next year after he won 27 games…the one year he led the league in wins the next season in losses…..sheeesh!

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49. Romus did you get your. Yacht out of Jim’s yard? Before the storm,?

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    1. Rocco. I hope everyone is safe in Florida. I have several of my high school classmates and couple former coaches in Florida at this time. Seems Romus has things everywhere.

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       1. I just reached out to friends there, Couple of my friends just moved there and couple have been there for yrs, all safe, thank god

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          1. Rocco. My friends are mostly to the south in Florida. But my football coach is in Spring Hill. Not too far from Tampa. I am going to check in on him. Has anyone heard from Jim if all is ok?

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    2. rocco……LOl……I think I lost the SS Minnow to Helene.

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50. I just looked it up. The guy I was thinking of was Brian Kingman. He pitched for the A’s in 1980. He went 8-20 but had an ERA of 3.83.

    I think there was talk for Oakland to shut him down late in the season so he wouldn’t lose 20 games. He nixed that idea and said he wanted to pitch.

    I thought he was the last guy to lose 20 but in 2003 Mike Maroth was 9-21 with the Tigers. Don’t know where I was because I can’t remember that one at all.

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51. One more thing: Last night the Marlins beat the Twins in extra innings. When the Phillies last played the Marlins, Connor Norby got a lot of hits against our boys. In last night’s game he batted 7 times, went 0-6 with a walk and 5 Ks, otherwise known as the platinum sombrero.

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    1. Tigers were horrible that year……WSox beat their record….Tigers lost 119 games….Jeremy Bonderman loss 19 games as a rookie….he won his last two games of the year that season to avoid the the 20 game loser award with Maroth. That also was the year Dave Dombrowski became the GM of the Tigers.

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52. Romus. It was so amazing in 72. Almost opposite of this season. Seemed Phillies won almost all of Carlton’s starts. 27 wins did not leave many other starts. I had forgot he had most losses in 73. But by 76 they were back on track with the new group. I remember Roberts being mentioned.

    neuruff. See article stating it is likely Neuman is left off playoff roster. Can you believe that. Also seeing Kershaw will not be on Dodgers either.

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53. Earlier in one of our discussions we were kibitzing about Johnny Briggs and Rick Wise being bonus babies. There is an article on John Briggs in the Inquirer. He is now 80 years old, and has lost his eyesight to glaucoma, but according to his family he hasn’t let the blindness define him. His son says he keeps them motivated to be the best they can be ………… a good example for us all!

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54. Well Ranger looks like crap. Not a good way to head into the postseason.

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55. I’m getting the feeling the Phils aren’t as deep at starting pitching at this point as we had assumed. Suarez isn’t passing the eye test.

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    1. The top 3 are fine. Just Ranger who’s not looked good since his return.

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56. I have switched over to the White Sox and Tigers. Crochet threw 4 shutout innings. He is a competitor. Only letting him pitch 4 innings. Had around 60 pitches. Sox look like the team trying to go to playoffs.

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57. This is one poor exhibition of ML baseball. Only one team is putting out any effort at all. My son is at the game, said “The Phils didn’t show up, but the rain did”!

    I’ve never been totally on the Suarez train like some of you. I’m more like let it play out as long as you can before signing him to a long contract.

    You get in a funk and play sloppy baseball …….. and maybe you can’t flip the switch and emerge….. guess we will see, huh?

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    1. neuruff. The thing that has bothered me with the team this season began with the 18-3 loss to the A’s the day before the All-Star break. Besides the 5th starter debacle, it seems to me and maybe I am way off on this, but the Phillies have had many games where they are not even competitive in. Like Jim mentioned it seems like more double plays maybe I am off on the number. You lose 3-2 or 6-4. Those are normal games. These other scores are beyond normal to me. Maybe Romus will know how many games have been lost by say 5 runs or more. One can use any number they choose. Kind of amazing they have 94 wins.

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       1. …….. of our 66 loses 24 of them have been by 4 runs or more.

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       2. ……. of the 94 wins 47 (or 50%) of them have been by 4 runs or more.

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58. I agree – this is one awful game. I have been out of the country for three weeks and looked forward to seeing them play again. Just a pitiful exhibition, sorry I even watched as much of it as I have. This team can really turn it OFF !

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59. Hi y’all! We survived the storm. Lost power yesterday at 6:00pm. Duke Energy had teams ready to react but held them back until the winds subsided after 2:00am. They had about 6 trucks in our neighborhood around 4:00 this afternoon and were bringing up houses street by street. We were back on the grid at 7:30pm. Already down 6-0, sheesh.

    Yes Rocco, Romus removed his yacht from my back yard before the storm. Unfortunately, two more landed on my front lawn due to the storm surge.

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    1. Glad everyone is doing okay and you have energy back. Sorry it was then used to witness this abomination of a game.

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    2. Jim. Great news. When Rocco mentioned he had contacted some friends I tried to do the same. My high school football coach lives in Spring Hill about an hour North of Tampa. It went directly to his VM and said inbox was full so I could not leave a message. Hoping he is fine as well.

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       1. Don your high school coach. Has to be over 100. God bless him. You played in the 60s

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60. Good news, Jim. This would have been a good game to miss for any reason. Aside from some pitchers, no one on the Phils is hot and many are stone cold.

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61. Don, regarding the Hayes 5-for-1 myth. I posted this about 5-6 years ago. I had attended Phillies Phantasy Camp. Von Hayes was one of the Phillies Legends (managers). He told us the real story at the final night’s banquet.

    “The Phillies acquired Hayes from the Cleveland Indians on December 9, 1982.  They reached agreement to swap 5 players for Hayes and another player.  But, Hayes was the owner’s wife’s favorite player.  So, the Phillies agreed to announce the trade as a 5-for-1 so she wouldn’t be too angry, and the Indians quietly “traded” another player for no compensation the next day.  So, actually, it was a 5-for-2″ trade.  I don’t remember the player’s name, but I checked and there was such a transaction the next day.  The Phillies traded were Manny Trillo, George Vukovich, Jay Baller, Jerry Willard, and Julio Franco.”

    The other player was in fact infielder Larry Milbourne from Millville, NJ. He went to the same high school as Mike Trout, then Rowan College (when it was called Glassboro State). He played in 41 games with the Phillies (.242/.554) in 1983 before his contract was purchased by the Yankees. He was traded to the Mariners in the offseason and out of baseball by August 1985.

    Actually, they didn’t wait until the next day to move Milbourne. He was “purchased” by the Phillies on the same day, December 9, 1982.

    Hayes was with the Phillies when he was traded to the California Angels for LHP Kyle Abbott and OF Ruben Amaro, Jr.

    Hayes was saddled with the “5-for-1” moniker by Pete Rose on the first day in the clubhouse and it stuck.

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62. Just for fun, I checked on the number of GDIP (Grounded Into Double Play) by the Phillies this season. This isn’t a real stat. I just divided GIDP by Plate Appearances and reduced to a percent.

    I’m not surprised by Bohm at the top of the list. He would have been my guess. I am surprised that Turner’s and Rojas percentages are as high as they are. Turner probably came back earlier than full speed. But, I’ve been concerned that Rojas doesn’t seem to be making plays as close at first base as he had been earlier in the season. Stubbs’ zero GIDP was also a surprise.

    Oh, I see I didn’t include the number of GIDP. Bohm and Harper have 18 each, Castellanos 14, Turner 10. No one else in double figures. Schwarber (679) and Castellanos (652) had the most plate appearances. Harper is the only other player over 600 (625).

    The Phillies are tied with Seattle for 16th place with 106 GIDP. Seems like so many more, doesn’t it?

    None of the above includes tonight’s nightmare.

    Alec Bohm 3.03%
    Bryce Harper* 2.88%
    Weston Wilson 2.22%
    Nick Castellanos 2.15%
    Johan Rojas 1.93%
    Trea Turner 1.89%
    Kody Clemens* 1.75%
    J.T. Realmuto 1.72%
    Bryson Stott* 1.61%
    Edmundo Sosa 1.49%
    Austin Hays 1.30%
    Kyle Schwarber* 0.88%
    Brandon Marsh* 0.43%
    Garrett Stubbs* 0.00%

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    1. I also looked at the GIDP recently. It’s still not entirely accurate, but I used the splits tool on Fangraphs to narrow it down to PAs with men on (since you can’t GIDP with no one on, obviously). There is still a little extra statistical noise for when there’s men on second and/or third, but not at first, but oh well.

       Harper 279 PAs, 6.45%

       Bohm 288 PAs, 6.25%

       Castellanos 286 PAs, 4.90%

       Turner 216 PAs, 4.63%

       Stott 244 Pas, 3.69%

       Realmuto 192 PAs, 3.65%

       Rojas 178 PAs, 3.93%

       Schwarber 227 PAs, 2.64%

       Marsh 217 PAs, 0.92%

       And just for some reference, the MLB leader in GIDP is Machado at 25 in 320 PAs with men on for 7.81%.

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63. Ranger is a pitcher with a tale of two seasons.

    Up to June 15…14 GS….10-1….1.77 ERA…FIP 2.61..Cy Young candidate.

    Post June 15……13 GS….2-7…..5.05 ERA….FIP 5 plus.

    Not sure I ever seen a pitcher blow apart like that in one season. Looks like an extension will have to wait until after next season starts and he is evaluated on what pitcher he is.

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64. Rob has indicated to the media guys all along that securing the 1 seed was the goal. I have always wondered if it really was or was not. They are in the bye. I do think that is important. Not positive a major advantage 1 over 2. May be irrelevant after today.

    But it was obvious from the start of the game last night the seeding was of no importance. Harper got picked off at 1B in inning 1. Ranger bobbles a routine grounder but at least does get one of his few outs at 1B. Marsh maybe turned Crews leadoff hit into a double. Crews may have made it anyway. Ranger fails to check runners and they double steal. Next batter hits one at 3B which would have ended the inning if not for the double steal. Then on the single Ranger does not back up home something pitchers should always do. At 6-0 I switched to Tigers and White Sox.

    Romus. Hoosier Matt was at bat when Tigers scored their first two runs. First came in on wild pitch with bases loaded and then Hoosier Matt hit a sac fly to center to score the 2nd run. His next at bat with a runner on 3rd they walked him and believe both of them would score to make it a 4-1 game. You should be proud.

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    1. The give away that they don’t care about the top seed was the attempted double steal down 6 runs. No chance you try that in a meaningful game.

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       1. Really one or two seed is meaningless this season…..more than likely the Dodgers, with their questionable pitching, will get eliminated before the NLCS…but then again so could the Phillies.

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          1. Sanchez is the key to the postseason. Wheeler can be counted on. I believe Nola can, too. Ranger can’t be counted on. Can Sanchez be what is needed in the postseason? Can he win On The Road? If so the Phillies should be in good shape. If not they will get bounced out fairly early.

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             1. Yeah…Sanchez is the key. Topper may start him on Sunday at home in the second game, assume Oct 6th is the 2nd game….he seems to do well at home and then save Nola for the third game. As for Ranger….maybe the BP is where he may end up for the play-offs.

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    2. Don…..who would have thought the Tigers would get this red hot—24-8 down the stretch …with a little luck they could get to the ALCS. AJ Hinch got them going, glad for him….he was a couple years ahead of my oldest son in Midwest City OK back in the early 90s.

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       1. Romus. AJ seems to be a good leader. A team like the Tigers may cause some issues. They are playing well. That is neat that you know him. If they meet O’s I can see them advancing. Believe they have tiebreaker with KC.

          Rocco. My coach called. He is fine. They were fortunate. Said they are like 5 miles from the Gulf. I told him you kidded me. He is 86.

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          1. Don…did not know AJ Hinch….he was just in the same youth baseball program as my son…just 2 or 3 years ahead of him. But he was the star player back then going thru the youth leagues in that area.

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             1. Romus. Appears AJ is similar to you as Max Clark is to my grandson. Max is two years older, and both played on the Bulls teams for a few years.

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65. neuruff. Phillies have been fairly dominant in wins and losses. That is a lot of games not very close.

    Rocco. I did play in the 60s and early 70s. In fact, my 70 undefeated team is being inducted into the school HOF next Saturday. We have a couple of players coming back from in Florida. Hope they are ok and hope they are able to make it. Have not heard from them. My coach is like 82 or 83 now. He plays golf couple times a week. Believe he lives maybe on a golf course in a gated facility. I have not been there. I am going to try to check on him again today.

    Romus. Back at the deadline when some were saying they should trade their pitchers because Tigers were a long way from contention, I brought up Max Clark and some others. I got blasted. They even did trade Flaherty. But my grandson is a Tiger fan, and they said at least one of the guys they got for Flaherty has helped down the stretch. Last night the announcers for the White Sox said much of the credit is due to Joey Cora. He told the players back in the first of August they had to become more aggressive. Steve Stone reference that on a ball hit into the gap where it should have been a double and the Tiger runner got a triple. I know the White Sox have 121 losses. But they were really trying last night. Crochet was awesome. In the 4th inning because of an error by 3B Tigers loaded the bases. Sizemore came out to take him out and he said he could get the next guy, and he did. He was over 60 pitches which had been his limit since first of August. I was really impressed in the 3 innings I watched him. Kind of a Max Scherzer guy.

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66. Wow, Romus and Don all those famous people. You played against. The most famous guy I played against was Henry Wasback. He was the star of a Sunday beer league. Last time I saw him .he was sleeping on a bench in fish town.

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    1. you are not remotely funny

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       1. Martin I appreciate your feedback.. But remember options are like as##### everyone has one

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          1. Does that mean Walker still has options and we can send him to AAA next year?

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67. Weary of watching K after K after K. It used to be you hated to leave your seat for a hot dog …… you might miss something …… you could do a sit down meal these days and not miss a thing!

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68. oldruff. I really love to know. How they will address it this off season. They seem to swing at a lot of bad pitches

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    1. Rocco ….. they do ……. the post-game show was interesting today …. the insinuation was that many players have their own personal hitting gurus whom they work with and use practice routines that have been tailored for them.

       I don’t fully understand what K. Long’s contribution is other than to be available to help them and maybe coordinate what is perceived weaknesses into some type of program to strengthen the skillset. What I got was they aren’t compelled to work with Kevin and Ricky/Reuben hinted that some players don’t always take the counseling, but rely on their own private tutors for instruction/development.

       So, if that is true it is hard for me to see how the group can become collectively better at making contact and not striking out if there are all these different voices/opinions chiming into the conversation.

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       1. For the most part you’re talking about guys who have been in the league for many years. They are not going to drastically change how they hit at this point. They are what they are.

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       2. neuruff. Not surprising to me. All that different voice stuff works its way all the way down to the older travel ball players. See it all the time. Too many voices.

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       3. Ruf, the insinuation is true. A lot of players have their own personal coaches. Pitchers, too.

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          1. When I think about it, it is maybe understandable. Some young players pay for personal coaches well before they reach professional baseball. Those that do would have a longer relationship with their personal coach than with the college and professional coaches they encounter along the way. Especially when moving through the minor leagues and they encounter a new coach at each level.

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69. I realize that they have the bye and these games are “meaningless” but they have now lost 3 of the last 4 games without scoring many runs. I just hate to see them limping into the post season.

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    1. Actually 8 out of 11, but fear not, …… I don’t feel there is any danger that they will lose any momentum from the off-week!

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       1. They’re also not in danger of wasting their hot streak before the playoffs begin.

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          1. neuruff and Dan. The weird thing is it can work either way. Phillies might be 3 and done or they might win 11 in a row. Baseball is such a weird game at times. I am not going to sit here and say which it will be. I have no idea. I know which way, I hope. So, would one prefer being the Tigers or the Phillies right now? At least Phillies only need 11 wins where Tigers need 13.

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             1. Phillies also have the better team and have to outlast fewer top-3 teams in baseball to win it all (since they don’t have to beat themselves). So yeah, I’d definitely rather be the Phillies.

                As you said, though, baseball is weird sometimes. So the Tigers will probably win the World Series just because.

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       2. Actually, we should hope they do lose their momentum given that right now its negative momentum.

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70. Dan. It is just so hard in this format for the best team to win the WS. Just so many things can happen and go wrong. A year ago, Betts and Freeman got like no hits against Dbacks. Baseball is weird and really hard.

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71. Ruiz made it terrifying, but it’s nice to end the season on a win. As well as locking up home field against every except the Dodgers (who, thankfully, we have already shown to be capable of beating on the road).

    Now let’s end the postseason with a win, too.

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    1. Looks like it could shape up like this for Saturday:

       NL Division Series – Saturday, Fox/FS1

       Mets/Braves-Padres winner vs. No. 1 Los Angeles Dodgers

       Mets/Diamondbacks-Brewers winner vs. No. 2 Philadelphia Phillies

       I really do not want to see the Mets, then again DBacks have the Phillies number of late…….and the Brew Crew could have a really pumped up Rhys ready to do some damage.

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