236 thoughts on “Phillies Discussion, 8/12/24”

1. Little confused about what happened with Darrick H!

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   1. He got DFAd, cleared waivers, and then got sent back to Lehigh. Same with Max Castillo.

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2. He has no position with phillies. He is old. So they let him try with another team

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3. There are still a lot of games to be played, but the Phillies need to take care of their business in the next 6 games vs the Marlins and Nationals. 3-3 won’t cut it. They need to prove to themselves that they are a good team and hopefully this will give them some positive vibes for the remainder of the season.

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4. Guru. I would say the same. I hoped for a 4-2 last homestand. Got 1-5 so no predictions this time. One thing both Nats and Marlins have won some lately and have scored some runs. That alone is an issue for Phillies. At least the Braves and Mets have been awful as well or this would be a race by now. Rockies scored 7 runs in the bottom of the 8th yesterday to snatch victory from defeat. Their record at Coors Field trailing by 6 or more that late is no2 2-275. Braves after getting the 2nd out in the 8th were a 99% chance to win. Rockies then got think it was 6 straight hits. Mets only scored 1 run in 3 games in Seattle. Guess we just wait and see. Phillies going .500 rest of way will most likely win division. Not sure if 1, 2, 3 is better spot or if it even matters.

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   1. 22-22 in their last 44 games gets them 91 wins

      Braves need to go 30-15 to get to 91 wins
      Mets need to be 30-14 to get to 91 wins.

      Phillies obviously need to start playing better or making the playoffs won’t matter but the goal is to finish in top 2 so you get that 1st round bye. Team to track down the stretch is the Brewers.

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   2. Amazing…in the NL East the three teams expected to roll to the end are struggling and the bottom two are hot…..with virtually youngsters thru their lineups. That Nats team is one to be reckoned with soon…if they get starters look out.

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      1. braves are minus three superstars

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         1. Excellent point Rocco. Some of the other key guys are underperforming as well. Sometimes when it rains it pours. It is kind of amazing they are this close. Now if the Phillies had come out of the break and played just average that would not be the case. But that did not happen so still within striking distance but less likely as the games disappear.

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5. They have a playoff list if they started today. Phillies and Dodgers are tied but they have LA as 1. I thought first tie breaker was against each other. Yankees and O’s are tied and they have O’s as 1 and Yankees as 4.

   I was thinking that .500 deal as well but that is not very good. Most likely Phillies are going to win division. Do Phillies have tie breaker with Brewers as well? I thought they swept them one time.

   Romus. I think it is quite possible that the 3 WCs are from the West. I can see Giants beating out both Mets and Braves. I agree on the Marlins and Nats. This may not be a great time to play them. But a 1-5 homestand is unacceptable at this point.

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6. After watching Arizona absolutely bury the Phillies it is difficult for me to imagine any team can beat them. They are now getting back their pitching staff that has been injured most of the year. I know they have the best record in mlb since June 1st and also the best offense in virtually all categories since then so one can hope that this hot streak will peter out – or will it ??

   It appears to me our team is tired, worn out, and in a deep depression. And now they face two teams with ambitious young players who play with abandon and have nothing to lose.

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7. Good points RU. Just looked at Power Rankings. Guy mentions how all the top teams but 2 have struggled. Dbacks and Pads. They are 5 and 6 this week. He has O’s, Yanks, Phillies, Dodgers. But on July 3 Dbacks were 11 1/2 games behind Dodgers. I will not be surprised that either Padres or Dbacks win division. Both are really hot and playing well and scoring lots of runs. That has got lost on the Phillies since All Star break.

   Romus. Agree on the Nats and Marlins. Just young kids wanting to play baseball. Both have been as good or better than Philles over the last 10. So maybe 3-3 would not be awful but it should be better.

   One thing that has always bothered me and I realize it was 1 game. But the blowout loss to the A’s 18-3 before All Star break has stuck with me. Everyone was going crazy about 8 guys on the All-Star team and then they laid a rotten egg on day out the door. A truly elite team should not have done that at home.

   Romus. You will like this. Guy doing Power Ranking on CBS is an IU grad so a huge Scharbomb fan. He just said that.

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8. Don53- Phil’s have 3 games left with Brewers. But you could be right – Phillies may have swept them earlier. Will check.

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9. Phillies swept 3 game set with Brewers earlier in 2025.

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10. 2024 !

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    1. Thanks. So, they need 1 more win against Brewers to have tie breaker then. I do think being 1 or 2 is important. 2 or 3 less games might be really important for this group. They ran out of gas 2 games from the WS a year ago. But playoffs are such a crap shoot anyway now who knows.

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11. Just seeing an article on SB Nation by Stolnis about Phillies. I do not have luck copying link as some of you do. Anyway, he talks of Phillies one month ago today. Record 61-32. Led Braves by 9 1/2, Mets by 13 1/2, Dodgers by 6 1/2, and Brewers by 7 1/2. 8 and 17 since and Dodgers and Brewers have basically caught them. Mentions a collective effort. Hitting, starting pitching, BP guys all have fallen off. Marsh .129 in August, Stott .067 in August. Only Wheeler under 4.00 ERA. BP has fallen off especially Alvarado. Basically, says this is the same team as 22 and 23. The next few weeks are going to determine where the same guys take it too. So, this is kind of a summary.

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    1. Well Don….if they fail again in October, prior to a World Series series, …what can Dombrowski do?Players may have to be moved….but return for some will be negligible….ie Casty and T. Walker, who also have albatross contracts tied to them..Some cannot be moved because of their status as superstars and/or contracts….Harper, Turner, JTR, Wheeler, Nola.So it looks like it may boil down to position players with return value as Bohm, Stott and Marsh…and a pitcher like Ranger. Those four will bring back the most value in return….be it an established MLB player already or high tier prospects.

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       1. Romus. I mentioned this a few days ago. I saw your post on my phone but when I come to computer it has not come through yet. So, I had to wait a few minutes.

          The next few weeks are going to be interesting in many ways. This team is the exact opposite of the previous 2 who started slowly and then came on. I wonder if they can turn it back on again down the stretch. There is no doubt this team is built to win in 24. Not down the road per se. If they do not make the WS there will be lots of questions to answer. You addressed some of them. Stott and Marsh both struggled badly in the 22 postseasons. I really felt Stott had it figured out in 23. He just does not look like the same hitter this year. Is Stott the one who has the new baby? One of the guys addressed that. Maybe Kruk. I forget who. He was always so still at the plate and now he is just everywhere. My issue with Marsh has always been for me he takes too many good pitches. I think you have thrown out guessing but I do not know. Having been a left-handed hitter like these guys I can see some of their issues better than the right-handed hitters. I was taught and tried to coach the same to look for a pitch you can handle. I had really quick hands so I could adjust to different pitches. I knew where I could do damage with a pitch. I am amazed at the number of fastballs that Marsh simply takes that are strikes and many are right down the middle. Even Rueben was on the taking strike 3 so frequently of late.

          By October 1st we will know the regular season outcome. My concern is this is a team that may play lights out for 4 or 5 games or play lights off for the same. My favorite team to watch right now the Dbacks. They play the way I liked to play. They know that all have to contribute in some way for them to be successful. I liked the way they beat the Guardians in 10 the other night. Sac bunt to 3rd and sac fly to right for winning run. Have guys who can do different things if the situation warrants.

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          1. Can they trade and get Whit back?

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          2. I appreciate the worry over the state of the team right now. They were so good to start and the last month looks bad and the last couple in Arizona too. There are guys really struggling, but here’s my reasoning for everyone to calm down a little.

             In the long-term, we knew their schedule was way harder in the second half with way more games on the road. In the short-term, they just completed a grueling 20ish game stretch against the best teams in baseball and finished a 10-game West coast road trip where they had zero days off. They went 4-6 and were in a few of the games they lost too. That’s respectable for such a hard road trip. Yes some guys are struggling, but the same can be said for every team I’m certain when they’re in a cold spell. The Pads, DBacks, etc. are hot right now, but have we seen enough from those teams to trust them to stay hot and be impossible to beat come the playoffs? Phillies have beaten the Dodgers handily this year and that team should still be viewed as their biggest competition for an NL pennant (because all the experts are still viewing it that way).

             The Phillies are about to get Walker and Suarez back which gives them more pitching depth and maybe even Suarez returning to pitch some very meaningful innings and give the bullpen a break. Hays shouldn’t be on the shelf long and maybe more of a platoon is necessary. My one wish — get Schwarber, Harper, Bohm, and some of your best run producers a day off here or there. Not many, but maybe 3 strategic days off the next 45 days before the playoffs.

             What we’re forgetting is that the 2022 Phillies SUCKED at the end of the year. They barely made the playoffs. And when they got in, they barely beat the Cardinals. If it wasn’t for the Cards’ closer imploding, we’re never talking about “getting hot at the right time,” because they were as cold as can be going into those playoffs.

             The Phillies just need to get in as they’ve shown the past 2 seasons. They’re in a great position to get into the postseason and still have really good players and stars all over the roster. Staying healthy and winning home games and games against inferior teams will go a long way to giving them a shot at another pennant. They still have a great shot as is. Let’s hope for a 5-1 or 4-2 homestand against Marlins/Nats. Also, the bullpen pecking order needs to continue to be refined and a 6-man rotation could make a big difference this year. No other team really has an opportunity to do the 6-man thing, but the Phillies should implement it for the next month and utilize options on guys like Phillips to bring up bullpen reinforcements when warranted.

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             1. I agree that the Phils could be in a great position but that’s about all. They are in a great position since competing teams like the Braves,Dodgers and even D’backs have suffered worse injuries.

                The Phils are essentially an older version of the ’22 and ’23 teams that lost steam in October. The D’backs have added new young talent which has provided a spark I haven’t seen since Tyler Phillips’ last win.

                The rest of your points – long season, travel schedule sound like the excuses losers come up with for how a season went wrong.

                The last off-season the Phils doubled down on veteran players which is where they put their resources. They had to do something with Wheeler. But listening to the D’back announcers call the games on Extra Innings served as a reminder that the Phils are seen as a veteran high-salaried team on long term deals that a hungry Arizona team could exploit.

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       2. Romus if you eat some of Walkers contract. And give them a prospect. Maybe we can unload hiscpntract

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12. Now is the time for Walker to step up and earn his contract. Wouldn’t it be great if he went on a run from now until the end of the season and becomes the pitcher he was most of last year? Or….he can go back on the IR next week. We’ll know soon enough. Stay turned.

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13. Just read an article with Harper speaking about Dbacks. He says they play game the right way. They walk, they hit, they have starting pitching, they have BP guys. Thinks they will be a serious threat come playoff time. Article mentions possible rematch. See Zona won season series 4-3. Does that come into play anywhere other than if both tied for a WC spot?

    All 6 series Phillies lost teams were at .500 or better. Plus, say now they have the 6th easiest schedule to close out the season. Time for them to regroup and get some wins.

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    1. Don….Payrolls:

       4.  Phi…$247M

       13. Ari…$175M

       Phillies have the stars that right now, cannot seem to get it right.

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       1. Romus. I am surprised they are that close. Arizona has lots of young players. Who do they have that is making so much money. Montgomery is one. Walker is probably another. Not sure on Marte. He will soon if not now.

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          1. Yep…Monty-$25M…. Marte-$13M…. Ed Rodriguez-$14M…Suarez-$11M…..Gallen-$10M…Gurriel -$10M and Pederson-$9M…. are basically their biggest salary guys.

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          2. …..and Walker at $11M.

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             1. What about Gallen and Phillips being high school teammates. They said Gallen was a senior when Phillips was a sophomore. Two kids from same team make the majors and then are in the same stadium as their teams play. Odds would be really great for that happening.

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                1. Don….Giolito (senior), Fried (senior), and Flaherty (soph)…all same SoCal HS, Harvard- Westlake, all same team

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          3. They don’t have lots of young players. The Phillies and D-backs are close in player ages.

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             1. True. Corbin Caroll & Pfaadt are really their only young guys.

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14. Sakes has been great, good signing, wish we signed him over Nola

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    1. Sale was a trade, not a signing.

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15. Sales

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16. Gelb has an article on Abel’s struggles this year. Interesting read and Abel does sound like his head is screwed on right, but there’s no mention of covid (I think Jim was talking Abel and that earlier, but I could have misread the thread)

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17. Romus. That is pretty awesome in both cases. I remember them talking Fried and Flaherty couple years ago. Forgot Giolito. For some reason I think it was said they did not win the state championship. But not sure there. Kershaw and Stafford were on same high school team. Stafford was the catcher. I can see catcher and quarterback going together.

    I watched the Braves and Giants last night. Braves I see won 1-0 in 10. Wonder how they scored. Snell had a no hitter through 6. He came out for 7th and Ozuna got a double just fair and then Olson got a swinging but down 3B line. Then he struck out Arcia who proved he could not bunt. Announcers made reference that his technique was not very good. Kind of looked like he was chopping wood. So, Snell had 11 Ks and 2 hits and about 120 pitches. Sale was just as good. He got through 7 with also 11Ks. I turned it off then. Sale only gave up 2 hits.

    Rocco not sure I would want Sale. Not for 7 years and whatever amount Nola got. But no doubt when healthy he is better. Plus, he is 34. Both of those guys were almost unhittable last night. Snell’s ball moves so much.

    Romus. Remind me of Snell being taken out in WS game 6 or was it 7. I know it had to do with pitches and Snell was furious and Rays lost. That I remember.

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18. I have a question for anyone. So, a team plays teams in their division 13 times so that is 52 games total. So, 110 games left for the other 25 teams. How do they determine how many are played against each? I know Phillies played Dodgers 6 games. Saw yesterday that Dbacks won season vs Phillies 4-3. So not by division. It was mentioned that Phillies will play Brewers 3 more for a total of 6 like Dodgers. So, is it based on previous year division standing? You play more against teams that finished in division same as you.

    I know NFl has division and then other division every 4 years plus standings, etc.

    Romus. I am sure you know this. You know everything. LOL

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    1. Don…will pass on that. MLB has their own logic on scheduling, and I will not attempt to crack the code.

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       1. Romus. This is so funny. TV has maybe a 7 second delay or something like that. I have a few minutes delay from getting your post on my phone till it appears on here. This just started happening recently. Why I try not to do anything out of the ordinary. Maybe it is because of all of your numbers after your name. Not true because ii is same for others. Just weird.

          Some of these medial guys are saying teams have more difficult schedules than others. I get the remaining games but some mentioned that the Phillies had an easy schedule at the beginning of the season. So made me wonder how schedule is set. I am working on my setup.

          Division games. 52. We know that. Interleague. Maybe 45 playing each team 3 times. If so, that is 97 games. NL teams not in division. 65 games maybe. Play 6 vs 5 teams and 7 vs 5 teams gives you 162 games. I know they played Dodgers 6 and Brewers 6. I know they played Reds 7 and Dbacks 7. No idea on other teams. No idea if any of this is even remotely close. NFL is pretty easy. You know from one season to the next who 14 or your games will be against. I know in NBA you only play other conference teams 2 times. But those in your own I think can vary some.

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19. Don – I believe the Phillies play teams in the NLC and NLW in alternate years six times one season and then seven times the next. With interdivision games dropped from 19 games to 13 games, they can now play the AL teams 3 games per year (home one season and away the next). Then they play their “natural” rival (in this case, the Bue Jays) four times. two home and two away.

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    1. I did see this starting next season, games against interleague rivals will be expanded from four games to six, with two sets of matchups against interdivision opponents being reduced from seven games to six to accommodate. I assume the blue Jays are the Phillies interleague ‘rival’….who knows what they are saying.

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20. Good article on Abel. Summary, the struggles this year has been hard on him, but he has had a good mindset. Wants to compete. DD and Matingly are still high on him.

    https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5696811/2024/08/13/phillies-prospect-mick-abel-update/?source=dailyemail&campaign=601983&userId=77144

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21. Ciada and Romus. Thanks. So, I am not too far off. I was not aware of the interleague rival like Mets vs Yankees. I had forgot that. So, if Dodgers and Brewers are 6 this year they will be 7 next year. I know Phillies played Dbacks 7 and Reds 7. So maybe just alternates like you said Ciada. I did not know if how you finished in division played a part like it does in NFL. But my formula forgot the rival deal. So, it is 46 games interleague and 64 NL, and 52 division. Then must be 81 home and 81 road. Makes sense to me.

    Romus you are too funny. I am aware I know nothing. But you are my baseball encyclopedia. I was thinking when I was seeing this strength of schedule stuff that most teams played almost the same schedule now. It was mentioned that Phillies had a soft beginning and actually saying today that they have the 2nd easiest schedule left. Cards and Royals have the two most difficult. Those are based on teams they have to play yet related to their records. At beginning they must have been using last year’s final record to project the soft Phillies schedule.

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    1. Don…a little trivia….at one point a married couple would make up the MLB schedule ….the Stephensons….Holly and Henry…..but from 1953 to 1981, Harry Simmons was responsible for devising the MLB schedule. Then Henry and Holly Stephenson, a husband-and-wife team, were in charge of constructing the MLB calendar for over two decades (1981–2004).

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       1. Romus. I was born in 1953. I knew at one time the schedule for all of these things were done by hand and took forever to do. You and my Babe Ruth coach are the smartest people I know on all of this stuff. Ken Burns may know more but you impress me now and he so impressed me for many years that I knew him after as the main area sportswriter for the major paper in our area. He won many awards. He passed away a few years ago. Our county will never have anyone again like him. He was THE best. I need to start nominating you for something. I was at Carmel those 2 decades that Henry and Holly made schedule.

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          1. Don…I think they may start to use AI to make the schedules for MLB…probably take less than a minute….longer just to print it out.

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          2. 1953..That’s the yr they invented the automobile. Marconi invented the radio. Great yr.

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             1. Rocco……. of the 3 cars which did you like best that year (1953). The Henry J, the Nash Healey or the 1rst plastic car the Chevy Corvette with a 6 cylinder and power glide transmission?

                Phils played at Shibe Park, were 83 -71 and finished 3rd. Robin Roberts had 33 complete games ……. those were the days, my friend I thought they’d never end …….. those were the days 🎶.

                Hoosier Don, you got to stop giving Romus all those accolades, he’s going to get a biggggg head.😄

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                1. oldruff/skeet. I was just inquiring about how the schedule is determined. I got Holly and Henry. Nice people. Then I got more games for rivals. Now I got AI from Romus. I am a farm kid. Growing up in the 60s AI had a completely different meaning on the farm.

                   Now Rocco has the cars and radio, and you have the models. Plus, they gave me the Steve Dalkowski’s of the world and the Bill Veeck midget guy. What more could one ask?

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                2. Romus head can’t get any bigger. I know.

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22. Taijuan Walker has been activated, Yunior Marte has been sent down.

    The Phillies need to win tonight in the worst way.

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    1. Saw yesterday Walker is pitching tonight. Fingers crossed.

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       1. Don……if betting man go with the ‘dog Marlins tonight….the first game back after a long road trip can almost feel like another road game for teams, plus there’s the distractions of reuniting with family and friends after being gone for a while. The first home game for a team following a long road trip is much more difficult to play than any actual road game is. Reason being, the players just got back home, had to travel from that last road city they played in back to their home city, get back to being settled in their houses with their family’s ..wives ..kids etc., and then before they know it they have to head out to the park to play a game. Returning home sometimes has distractions that go along with it and the players may not be entirely focused on the game. The key is, the game is lined by the oddsmakers as a normal run of the mill home game, with the usual home team point spread bias. So the system is, bet against a team returning from a road trip of 4 or more games, BUT the Phillies did have one day …yesterday, so just maybe the trend will not be in play… home teams come out flat , lets hope this is not the case tonight.

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    2. The Phillies made a big mistake sending Marte to LHV. He should have been sent to Jersey Shore.

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23. any updates on Andrew Painter progress?

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    1. Don’t think you’ll get any progress reports, not their cup of tea …… Maybe something generic like things are going along as expected.

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       1. Skeet…read last week he is throwing off the mound in side sessions with a few other post-TJ pitchers…they all encourage each other during these sessions. He apparently is progressing right on schedule.

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          1. rocco……there may be extenuating circumstances……he was born in Canada so he may have started US schooling a year or so later. There could be other reasons also.

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             1. This guy gets drafted early. Not highly rated. And is close to getting SSI. Makes no sense

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    2. No news is good news since he isn’t going to pitch for an affiliate this year.

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24. We talk pitching and pitch counts and injuries and whatever all the time. CBS has a good article up right now with Randy Johnson. He gives his thoughts on pitch limits, injuries, etc in the current game. Talks about Paul Skenes. One thing he does approve is the pitch clock. His number are pretty good. He has one common thing with me. Rotator cuff injury plus back ended his career.

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25. Romus. How many more years for Walker? Wow. But at least he handled Pache. I thought he was on Orioles. Pache will travel.

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    1. Yes, Pache must have gone on a tear after leaving here, has that batting average up to .202 from .195.😎

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26. I feel for those who have paid a good amount of money to see your team just go through the motions. Giving your best and losing is a completely different thing. No life, no joy, no swagger. No wiggles. No anything. It is bad when Kruk cannot even find anything to say.

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27. ……….. still a “K” machine, though!

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    1. I think Dombrowski can look at ownership and say that he patched at the deadline, saved top prospects and has kept spending within the luxury tax constraints.

       With the contracts, there are limited off-season options. Topper has had a very good winning percentage but if the ship goes down, I think the Phil’s will buy Thomson out of his last year.

       Teams playing this bad and with so little juice get people fired.

       The boo birds started in tonight but the Bank will offer no home field advantage if this kind of play continues. The team will be counting The days till they’re back out on the road.

       Harper didn’t win in D.C. but the fans didn’t really care. He hasn’t experienced what it’s like to play in front of home fans who register their discontent in the way Philly fans can. Because the Phils are flailing in the face of such weak foes, they are playing on a knife’s edge. If Topper doesn’t pick up on it, there’s a good chance he’ll be feeling the knife this off-season.

       His laid back approach reminds me of a conducted conducting minimalist music to an audience expecting Beethoven.

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       1. Really good points. I was thinking watching the game tonight and somehow, I watched the whole game that the team at this time reminds me of the last couple weeks of the Girardi days. I realize all teams have slumps. This really does not seem like a slump anymore. Now things just seem like a lack of commitment, fundamentals, etc. Like Kruk said the Marlins were the team one would have thought was in 1st place by the way they played. They were aggressive on the bases and just seemed to be having more fun out there. When the Phillies made outs, they just walked back to the dugout. I think the guys said it was 17 or 18 fly outs. Most were simply pop ups. This was a kid they made into a pitcher and who had never gone more than 5 innings in a game, let alone 7 shutout ones.

          If things do not change in the next couple weeks, I think you may see heads roll before the end of the season. The guys at the top cannot be pleased with what they are watching. I do not think status quo if no improvement fairly soon. Someone will take the sword.

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28. Coyote UGLY, UGLY, UGLY!!!!

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29. Nice to see the Phillies get back home. Romus. Payrolls? I did not know the Marlins signed Cy Young. This is really hard to watch. I am not sure this team is going to come out of this.

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30. What a total embarrassment. The Phillies get shut out at home by a Marlins team that was 31 games under .500. 4 hits total, 1 walk?

    This team needs to wake up.

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31. In August if we score 6 or more runs we win. If we score less than 6 we lose.

    If Kevin Long is the hitting coach par excellent, how come we don’t hit better? How come we don’t score more when we have runners in scoring position? Something doesn’t add up. Either he isn’t the teacher his reputation suggests or the students don’t have the skillsets to apply the instruction. Are we homerun happy to the point we swing for the fences and come up with that or nothing?

    The Arizona series should have taught us something, I think. You just had the feeling when opportunity showed itself, Arizona was going to cash in. I think some of our guys need to reinvent the way they play the game. I never get that feeling of assurance when we have people on base, actually quite the contrary.

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32. Marsh is going in the toilet. K rate around 34%. That is nuts for a gap hitter. I don’t know what can be done but the team is going nowhere unless the bats come around.

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33. Meanwhile we have, according to this site, Traded three hall of fame guys, Brown, Meade and klassen,

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34. Make that four forgot the best one, O’hoppe

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    1. LOL……rocco maybe they will carry a Thresher’s hat with them when they walk up to the podium at their ceremony in Cooperstown!

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       1. Well Romus its that time of year, Saragota, Travers stakes coming up, Baseball will have to be put on hold, see you in Late Novemeber after Breeders racing

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          1. rocco…..enjoy the action.

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       2. I’ll give Rocco credit. I remember back in the day he said the same thing about Fergie Jenkins and Ryne Sandberg and he was correct.

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35. This team is in a tail spin. I hope the pilot has trained for this and has the experience to pull out of it. There is not an eject button to push or pull at this point in the season.

    That warm and fuzzy feeling the fans were chowing down last year is clearing the system quick.

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36. Here is one for you. Who would have thought a month ago that the Dbacks and Pads would have one less win today than the Phillies? 69-68. My guess is no one. If the Phillies blow the division, they may have to hope to hold onto the 6th spot. Wow. What a difference a month makes.

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    1. First of all, let’s start with this. How bad of a signing was Taijuan Walker? Yeesh!!!! Even when he was okay last year (he was okay), you paid a guy $18 million a year who wasn’t good enough to take the mound in any capacity through three playoff rounds.? Really? Yikes! What an epic DD fail. A contract that was too high in AAV, way too long and for a player who, at best, is average-ish with a low ceiling.

       As for the rest of the team, they aren’t nearly this bad (or at least I don’t think they are), but for crying out loud, they are as streaky as they come. Even the guys who typically hit for high averages, such as Harper and Turner are super streaky.

       As for the starting pitching (aside from the 5th starter), getting Ranger back (hopefully, healthy) will be huge.

       My view is that they bounce back, get hot again, and make the playoffs at the #2 seed. However, this streakyness is really a gigantic problem. It’s going to be hard for them to make it all the way through the playoffs with fairly consistent offense. And what this means is they need the pitching to bounce back and be consistent.

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       1. Catch. I just saw an article on Walker. He says the Phillies need to play better. Really. How about not walking 2 of the first 3 batters and then having them score on bloop hits to start the game. I doubt anyone felt the game was over after that first hit but it was. The other key point that the article mentioned was the starting pitching was in top 3 and now is 23rd. I agree this is an all or nothing team. That is a concern when you must win at least 11 games. My biggest concern right now is the lack of being competitive in so many games. I can live with a 3-2 game but these 18-3, 11-1, 12-3 games etc are hard to figure. But I noticed today Cleveland won like 6 in a row after the 8-0 loss to Phillies. Then lost 7 in a row. Now won 4 in a row. Maybe there is just something in the water. Braves look awful on Sunday and then take two nail biters from Giants both in 10 innings. Go figure.

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37. My daughters are going into the 6th grade this year and will be heading into their junior yrs of college when this horrendous Trea Turner contract comes to fruition. If/when this teams makes a grumpy in their pants to end this year short of a championship, JM and DD have to think long and hard about a quick reboot.

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    1. I don’t want to make it sound like DD is a bad general manager – he isn’t. He does a lot of things well, including roster building. One thing he has historically not done well, however (and he IS being asked to do it here) is transition planning. He has left several teams with huge payrolls and burdensome contracts that weighed their organizations down for years – such as the Miguel Cabrera contract which, literally, might be the worst contract in MLB history.

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       1. If they did decide to try for a quick 12 month reboot what would be some potential options? I’m not saying that any of these things are prudent or are possible but I’m just spitballing here.

          1. Eat some $ and move Castellanos
          2. Eat some $(a lot) and move Walker – this made me laugh just typing it.
          3. See what potential return could be on any one of Marsh, Sanchez and Suarez.
          4. Move on from one of Estevez or Hoffman
          5. Never allow Turner to play SS again
          6. Move on from Schwarber and Realmuto at end of next year
          7. Possibly move on from K Long

          Thoughts?

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          1. A quick reboot only happens if the Phillies have cheap replacements that are close. The only prospect that is close is Painter, and he’s coming off TJ.

             The prospects that are in the system will allow the Phillies to lengthen the playoff window. But make no mistake about it, the Phillies will go only as far as the high priced FAs will take them. And that means Harper, Schwarber, Turner, Nola, Wheeler.

             I guess the good thing is that the Phillies didn’t give Realmuto a 6 year deal, which some people on this board were willing to do.

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          2. Eat some $ and move CastellanosEat some $(a lot) – YES

             Move Walker – this made me laugh just typing it. YES, IF POSSIBLE

             See what potential return could be on any one of Marsh, Sanchez and Suarez. I DOUBT IT WOULD BE WORTH IT, A TURN AROUND STARTS WITH THESE PLAYERS EVEN IF THEY ARE STRUGGLING AT THE MOMENT.

             Move on from one of Estevez or Hoffman. YES, THEY WON’T SIGN BOTH

             Never allow Turner to play SS again. I’M OKAY WITH THAT – HE SHOULD BE PLAYING CENTERFIELD

             Move on from Schwarber and Realmuto at end of next year. REALMUTO DEFINITELY, SCHWARBER T/B/D

             Possibly move on from K Long – AND GET WHO? HE DIDN’T FORGET HOW TO COACH OVERNIGHT. I PROBABLY KEEP HIM.

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             1. By the way, it’s kind of shocking that Aidan Miller was ranked ahead of Painter. I get there’s some risk with him, but Painter is a generational type prospect. Even with the risk, there’s no way I put Miller ahead of Painter right now, although I’m happy the scouting community loves Miller.

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                1. I don’t have an expectation that Painter is going to be Wheeler as soon as he’s healthy. Its likely to take 3-4 years before he turns into that.

                   And in light of Jimmy saying Miller has been nursing an injury I still wouldn’t put him ahead of Painter or even Crawford for that matter.

                   I’m still optimistic about Miller I just don’t see him staying at SS and in saying as much what I believe the bat is may mean he is simply a decent MLB regular instead of a possible AS.

                   Even Tait at this point seems deserving of a really strong ranking.

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             2. It looks like you’re yelling at me Catch. Haha

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                1. So sorry – I just wanted to distinguish your questions from my responses. I definitely didn’t mean it to come off that way. My apologies.

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                2. it’s gonna take me weeks to recover

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       2. That Cabrera contract was brutal. He was essentially finished at age 34. So that 8/248 extension (which started when he was 33) delivered to the Tigers a grand total of 2.4 WAR (not a typo). The Tigers could have started a guy off the scrap heap for those 8 years and got more than 2.4 WAR for a fraction of the cost.

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    2. There’s no quick reboot. While it’s great that the Phillies have money to throw around, you get saddled with their contracts when they eventually start to decline. I wasn’t a fan of the Nola contract and I was probably the only here that was angry when the Phillies gave crazy money to Trea Turner. SS take a pounding in their careers. Jimmy Rollins was essentially a league average player by the time he was 30. In recent memory, only Derek Jeter lasted into his mid-30s as an above average player. And Jeter really fell off at age 39. Not only that, Jeter was remarkably healthy. Trea is already having hamstring issues at age 31, and his speed was a big part of his value. If he’s not going all out, it’s a big problem.

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38. I thought Estevez was supposed to be elite. Not for nothing but he hasn’t looked at all worth what we gave up for him.

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    1. Don’t say that dmar. Those two guys haven’t done anything in the majors yet and are not in The Hall Of Fame.

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       1. LOL Perry Minasian runs to the phone when DD calls. The only good deals that fella makes is with the Phillies.

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          1. DMAR…Angels and Phillies have a coast-to-coast connection.

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    2. I don’t mind giving up what we gave up, but I’m not sure I want to be in the bidding competition when Estevez goes after a new contract because I agree with you, he hasn’t left me in awe!

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    3. dmar. I agree with you. The couple times I have seen him he has been at best average. I thought from the talk he was going to be a lesser version of Mason Miller. Not at all. I had never seen him before.

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39. Here are moves I’d make, of graduating magnitude and based on team needs going forward:

    Recalll Rafael Marchan and demote Stubbs till the September 1 roster expansion. Give a fresh look at the catching position and give playing time based on performance, not.payroll considerations. If Realmuto performs best as a 3X a week player, live with it.

    Give Cal Stevenson Marsh’s AB’s and play him in LF full time till Hays returns. Is Stevenson a full-timer, a platoon quality player or a big leaguer at all? Time to find out. See what a Hays-Stevenson-Castellanos OF looks like. Marsh and Rojas’ roles going forward should be determined by what Hayes and Stevenson cannot provide in terms of defense and hitting against all kinds ofpitching.

    Sign Trevor Bauer. To my mind, the strongest arguments against doing so were team culture and the depth in the Phils’ rotation. To which I say “What culture? What depth?”. The Phils don’t need/can’t afford another ace, they need strength in the 3/4 slot , now and in the play- offs. Suarez may return and be great. Sanchez may bounce back and resemble the pitcher he was in June. If not, the Phils pitching will be exposed along the lines of what’s happening now. Wouldn’t hurt to have another arm attached to someone motivated to perform by his uncertain future. Too many Phils are playing as if their contracts have them set up for life.

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    1. MLB probably does not want Trevor Bauer in their game…the blowback is not a good image. The memo must have been sent out under encryption to the GMs…..I’d think by now some team , like the Yankees or Sox would have signed him.

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       1. You probably hit the nail on the head. Here in the Amish country it is called “shunning”.

          How about that Rocco, checks in for a week ….. and then off to the races, so to speak! Have to get my meds 😩 the Phils are on in a little while and I need to be tranquil.😡

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          1. Skeet……last night was to be expected….teams in NBA, MLB and NHL coming back from extended road trips ..a week or more…tend not cover and do have a tendency to lose, for whatever reason, on their first game back….it is a known betting trend. Now tonight may be a different story…….but just in case keep the meds handy.

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             1. Romus. You are so smart. You should be an encyclopedia. Oh, you are. LOL

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          2. Just when we are getting used to Rocco back from Gilligan’s Island he is off again. What a great life he has.

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40. Did a team meeting take place or didn’t it? You know when you dead pan that you weren’t aware of any and then it is confirmed there was one, you look about as stupid as a guy trying to stretch a single into a double and being thrown out by 5’……. but then stupid is as stupid goes and they say there is no cure for it.

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41. It did, the word “unacceptable “ must have been mentioned multiple times since postgame I’ve read 2 players use it. I’m glad it was because I have used it myself and IMO their acceptance of it shows that they completely comprehend the situation.

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42. Sorry for throwing in a few posts. My internet was off all day yesterday. What life is like out in the country. Two or three times a month is normal for this. Nice to see Phillies get a win. I did think of the 6 run August rule when Scharber hit the grand slam. Alvarado still looked a little shaky. I think Casty was trying to fake them out on his single. Guy did almost miss the tag because he was expecting someone to be there and Casty was still 20 feet or so away. But a win is a win, and Phillies will take each one right now. Romus your point on the day back makes sense. I believe that is the only game the Dbacks have lost since they got back from East Coast.

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43. First couple innings were rough but they righted themselves. I saw a conscious effort from a few guys to let the ball travel and take it the other way.

    I hate to see them go through such struggles because I do see effort…

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    1. DMAR ………. I agree, I did see some conscious effort, but I also saw some sloppy play, Bohm’s error and Castellanos poor baserunning decision.

       I would like to see Stevenson get some starts in CF. I know what Rojas does …….. seen that. He gets some of the ugliest hits you will ever see ……. I know ….. they still count!

       Sometimes I don’t quite see the batting lineup like Rob sees it. I do like the 2024 version of Schwarber much better than the 2023 version. We all hit yesterday with the exception of Sosa, a plus. Now if we can score early.

       Don’t know how effective Phillips is going to be going on ……… some tuning to be done with the pitching staff, starters & relief.

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       1. Phillips had the luxury of being an unknown in his first couple of starts but once the clubs get some tape on you it becomes that much more difficult if the stuff is only a B-C grade.

          And yes the sloppiness when it occurs isn’t pretty. That can get cleaned up.

          Its hard to fix things that are talent or injury related. I believe talent isn’t the issue its simply weather or not the talent can get right when it matters.

          That pretty much can be said for all the clubs with WS aspirations. There are quite a few WC teams that can clip a division winner.

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44. Just an FYI. Baseball likes the recent changes they have made to the game. Now they have a couple more in mind. Jesse Rogers on ESPN has a story up on requiring the starting pitcher to go minimum of 6 innings. Also experimenting in one of the minor levels with the double hook DH. Romus. I am going to let you explain that. Regarding the starter they want starters in longer and hope to reduce injuries and maybe reduce number of pitchers on roster.

    List 3 exceptions to 6 inning rule. 100 pitches. 4 or more earned runs, and an injury. Interesting article. Any thoughts.

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    1. I saw that article and I’m good with it. I think MLB wants starters to go away from “max effort until I drop” to more of “finding a way to get through a lineup 3 times”. In general, this won’t affect the Phillies that much. This will obviously affect the Rays a lot (they like their openers).

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       1. Forcing pitchers to go 6 innings is going to backfire HARD if the goal is to avoid injuries. We’re still talking about ultra-competitive guys here. If they get into a jam, they’re going max effort regardless of the inning. Which means, someone having a bad day is going to be max effort early on and have to keep that max effort for a required 6 innings.

          Plus, you can never know when exactly you’ll be through with your minimum requirements. Oh, you only need 3 more outs? Should be okay to start throwing 100 and mixing in the slider. Oh wait, a guy got a bloop single. Oh, and now an error. What’s that? Your pitcher is at 120 pitches? Don’t worry, just 3 more outs. Woops, there’s a homer. I guess he’s gassed. But he’s just gotta fight through it.

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          1. The “starters much go 6 innings” idea is just plain stupid. MLB continuing to try to micro-manage individual baseball games is going to destroy the game.

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             1. Agree…..plain stupid,,..,Manfred needs to put in his retirement paperwork.

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          2. Dan. If you take a look at the article, I think the idea is to limit the number of max pitches a pitcher makes. Plus, it points out fans want to see the guys who are the stars in the games longer. It mentions that 100 pitches would be limit. So not 120 or 125. They are just throwing the idea out there. I thought the article was pretty good. I am not pro or con. They do mention that MLB would like to see more action on the field rather than so many strikeouts. That will take some time whatever they do.

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    2. I think this is so stupid. Pitch your starters as long as you want. Why should starters be required to pitch 6 innings or 100 pitches or whatever? Almost all of the recent changes have been good for the game and really haven’t modified the fundamentals of the game itself too much (ghost runner aside). This really changes the game of baseball. I don’t like it at all.

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       1. It’s more about the analytics saying that starters going the 3rd time through the order will get hit a lot harder. How many times have we seen (and the Philies have done it too) where teams yank their starters before the 3rd time through the order? I think baseball wants to get away from that. It’s similar to how relievers must face 3 batters. And now, nobody really cares about that anymore.

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          1. Yes, it’s similar, but it’s extreme. This is not tinkering with the game at the edges – like adding 3 inches to bases or requiring a pitch to be thrown in a reasonable amount of time or not having the game interrupted by changing the pitcher every single batter (which was totally destroying the fan experience). This is a massive and fundamental change in the game and it sure will result in more injuries. And why? So you can force a pitcher to go through the line-up a third time and get hit around? No, I think it’s terrible.

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             1. Interesting note, looking at Tyler Phillips’ 6 starts in the view of the proposed new rules, the Phillies would still be allowed to remove him at those times. So the proposed rules wouldn’t have mattered. Does that mean that Phillips has more of a probability to get injured?

                Looking at Nola’s 24 game log, only 4 times where he got removed and it wouldn’t have been permitted under the new rules.

                Zack Wheeler? 2 starts

                Ranger Suarez? 5 starts

                Sanchez? 6 starts

                I think this will hurt the 3/4, 4/5 starters more because they are more likely to run into trouble in the middle innings.

                But still, I do want to see how this all plays out. I want to see this in action in the minors.

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                1. Guru. I forgot earlier that Phillips could have been taken out. MLB is serious. I have seen this on different sites this afternoon.

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             2. Catch. No more than 4 runs. Phillips had 3 last night in a blink of the eye.

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    3. Don……..”teams losing their DH when they removed their starter. …….(but now under this double hook rule), if the starter completes at least five innings, teams can retain the DH for the rest of the game….”

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       1. Romus. That is what it says. They are experimenting this in the Atlantic league somewhere. So, you lose your DH I guess the pitcher in the game hits. Is that correct? They have so many screwball rules in this travel ball stuff. One last year was my grandson was only going to pitch couple innings. So, he was listed as the DH. So, he DH for himself so he could bat each time after he left the game. But there are many more goofy ones.

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          1. Don……not sure, but under this rule if the starting DH does not make it to the 6th inning….then the pitcher comes in at his spot in the lineup, otherwise another hitter will take the DH’s place if it is after the 5th inning. Actually I like this change vs that other pitcher BS rule.

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45. I think the players association would be ok with this. Why? Money. There will be more of a premium on pitchers who can go 6 innings. And teams will have to pay for that.

    No more openers and bullpen games!

    Will this mean less of a need for middle relievers who can pitch multiple innings to bridge the gap into the high leverage relievers? i.e starters go 4-5 innings, middle relief gets it into the 6th or 7th innings.

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46. I think I forgot to mention that MLB guys are going like a little over 5 on average but Minor League guys just over 4. Organization guys feel they need to address the way they are developing the younger pitchers in the minors. I have no idea if this will ever gain any ground.

    I am not a huge fan of the ghost runner either. Basically, other than the Yankees vs Phillies it tends to get the game over quickly. The little guys in tourneys in Indiana play the California extra inning rule. Runner on 2nd. 1 out, 1 ball and 1 strike on each batter as they hit. I saw three or four of those this Summer. Biggest thing I thought it confused the kids a lot. Teams scored fairly quickly in most cases.

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    1. They did an ancient study one time…..lead-off hitters who get to first base thru a walk or single have come around to score 38% of the times. Assume second base is higher and third base is a no brainer, unless of course if it is the Phillies batting in a team slump.

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       1. Yes, the Phillies strategy is:

          1rst batter grounds out moving runner to 3rd base.

          2nd batter K’s trying to hit a homerun.

          3rd batter hits the flyout to the outfield that we needed the 2nd to hit.

          This wasn’t hard to write, I have it memorized.🤨

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          1. oldruff. I disagree a bit. Phils do not move runner often. Do agree on the K for out 2. Then simply 3rd makes an out. I wonder how many times Phillies have scored the ghost runner to how many times they have failed.

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47. Romus. Sure, you are correct. I wonder what the ghost runner scores at what rate. Seems like many games only go 10 innings.

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    1. Latest I found…..the leadoff walk, or single I assume, scores between 22 and 34 percent of the time, on average, per MLB season. The latest year results were 2,874 leadoff walks were issued, in which 657 scored (roughly 22.33% of the time). Interesting fact: 146 of those walks were issued to start the game. Now, the ghost runner on second base , no outs, scoring probability……….64%

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       1. 64% is pretty good. I bet Phillies have a lower percent.

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       2. I found this: when teams attempt to bunt the ghost runner over, they score 59.8% of the time. When they swing away they only score 54.3% of the time.

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48. Those are not as different as I would think. Guess you have 3 chances to get a hit compared to 2 to get run in a different way. As per normal here. Storming now so my Direct TV does not work when it is raining hard. Just started a few minutes ago.

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49. Win would be nice tonight. Dodgers, Braves and Mets have all lost.

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    1. So far so good…Bohm and Casty with HRS in the first.

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50. Thanks Romus. I just got it back on. So where are the guys sitting in the stands? Nats can take their pitcher out if they like under new rules. Nice to see a good start. Romus have you been to any games this season.

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    1. They are sitting where Kruk gets scared of foul balls….. no games this season yet…….I think they are in the mid level somewhere behind Phillies dugout

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       1. Romus, Don …….. found this, the Phillies extra-innings results since the ghost runner was implemented.

          2024 2–2

          2023 10-7

          2022 8–6

          2021 11-6

          2020 3–2

          @philstailgate

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          1. …….. so, if those figures are accurate that’s a 60% winning percentage.

             Hey, everybody hits tonight, …….. get em all in the game spread it around.

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             1. oldruff. 34-23. That is pretty good. I would not have guessed that good from the beginning. You guys are amazing what you can find. I did find my granddaughter’s junior high volleyball schedule earlier tonight when tv was off.

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       2. Looks like they are getting lots of good food.

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51. Congrats to Weston Wilson on the cycle. That is a really difficult feat. Maybe why it has only happened now 10 times in Phillies history. Got the triple out of the way first and then got some good fortune. There is nothing wrong with good fortune. A team has to get some of that to win the WS now.

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    1. I think they said he is the first rookie to do it in the Phillies org. Maybe he will be the Phillies late bloomer, along the lines of a Gio Urshela or Justin Turner.

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52. Os’ beat Sox last night….Eflin with the win, Pivetta with the loss.

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53. Romus. One never knows. You just plug along and maybe your break comes. For many it never does. Weston seems to have some things in his favor. Good athlete. Multiple positions. Has some power. Just congrats to him. Maybe this ignites the team going forward. Let’s hope so.

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    1. I think (hope) Schwarber’s grand slam was the beacon to wake up the team. Having two excellent offensive outbursts in a row is a good sign. Now we just need to hope it’s not like the Dodgers series where it was just a short break from the soul-crushing losses.

       The good news is we get to face Corbin tonight, and over half the team crushes him. We have 5 players on the active roster with a career OPS over 1.000 against him (Bohm, JT, Schwarber, Stott, and Sosa).

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       1. Remember when Corbin was a FA and people here wanted to sign him and give him whatever he wanted?

          Let’s be clear, the Nats don’t regret signing Corbin because he helped the team deliver a title. He signed for 6/140 and by the 3rd year of his deal, he was finished. And Mike Rizzo, who can trade with anybody, couldn’t pawn off his contract to anybody. For 6/140, Corbin will give the Nats a title and 2.4 WAR (not a typo).

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          1. He is a free agent come Nov…….he will be cheap….36 years old next season. Negative 9.8WAR over last four years…..some team will offer him a contract.

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             1. mmmm . . . maybe.

                Patrick Corbin has managed to lead the league in losses for the last four years. And that title is well-deserved – he’s dreadful. Imagine signing that contract (which, by the way, I won’t slam Rizzo for doing – it was a perfectly defensible contract when he signed it – you can’t predict everything) and then the disastrous Strasburg extension (which was more predictable – Strasburg lost a ton of velocity in the last few years before he got hurt) all the while letting generational player Bryce Harper go elsewhere. Like DD, you get a mixed bag with Rizzo.

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                1. Yeah he seem to have corrected some of his past managing ways…trading Soto and getting back what he did was a good move….Wood, Abrams and Gore are nice players. Of course this is the 5th year in a row now that the Nats are an under .500 team.

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54. Dan – Hope you are correct about Scharbomb’s grand salami turning the tide but it seems when the opposing pitcher is suspect, the Phillies hit him well. When they face good pitching, they tend to fold the tent.

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    1. We’ve made plenty of bad pitchers look good over this stretch, so punishing them is the first positive sign. The second, more important, positive has simply been that… we haven’t handed our leads back. We came back from an early deficit against the fish and then our ‘pen didn’t blow it, which they’ve done A LOT recently. That’s big. And then, of course, Wheeler just simply would not allow the Nats to start chipping away at our ever-growing advantage last night. Which is also a good thing, but just kinda Zack being Zack.

       Time will tell, but I’m more optimistic that this is the start of our rebound than I was with the Dodgers wins. For some reason I just didn’t believe it then and, unfortunately, I was correct. But this feels a little different.

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55. Romus. I hesitate to speak. But I felt the Nats were very fundamentally poor last night. So, hope they stay that way. They had runners on 1st and 2nd and maybe full count they both took off. Even T Mac or Kruk or one of them made comment how do you do that down 9=0. Line drive to an infielder is an easy triple play. Threw to wrong bases. Made throws that should not have been made.

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    1. Yeah Nats are a young team and going thru the growing pains…since they won the WS in 2019, 5 years of futility…..Philly knows those feelings, actually, we went thru 6 or 7 years of it. Lets hope we do not experience that extended drought again.

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56. Special game today …….. Middleton to make special pre-game presentation to Carlos Ruiz ( go Chooch) with PhanaVision highlights of his career.

    Rock & Roll HOF John Oates to sing the National Anthem and then Corbin vs. Nola.

    Alumni Weekend kicks off and tomorrow night the beloved David Montgomery is inducted into the Phillies Wall of Fame.

    Sunday is Alumni Day and the 20th Anniversary of Citizens Bank Park with all the pageantry and appearances of Philly Pillars of the past that we have adored over the decades ……….. a great time for baseball …….. let’s play two!

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    1. Shame it is not Hall and Oates anymore.

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       1. Yeah, that’s over.

          Anyway, the Nats are the like a big get well card for the Phillies. Hopefully the momentum continues tonight.

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57. catch22 – It will continue tonight if Nola comes out and pitches like a #2 with a $25M contract per for the next 6-7 years. If he gets knocked around early, it could be a long night. Or…he starts strong and stays that way (omitting that one bad big inning). Fingers crossed.

    I have to believe that Phillips’ next start may be his last. After two starts (and wins) giving up zero runs, his last 3 have yielded 17 runs in 11 innings. If he falters again, I think Allard will plug into his spot with good results his last few starts with both Philly and LHV.

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    1. Look, I get the frustration with Nola and some of his starts, but I don’t everyone is putting what he does into context. He’s got an 11-6 record with a 3.45 ERA and he’s on pace for about 4-4/5 WAR. That is the very definition of a solid 2/3 – it’s really good and he consistently delivers quality starts. His problem is we expected him to be a perennial Cy Young candidate based on his one early dominant season and he hasn’t been that, but he’s very good. He’s worth his salary right now, but will he be in 4 years? I don’t know but his game has never been about overpowering hitters so I’m not saying it’s impossible. But he does need to be able to throw 93 or 94 when he needs to so he can keep hitters honest.

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       1. For Nola this year is the first in the last 5 that his FIP is higher than his ERA…..though a 4FIP, as he has right now, is still considered to be league average. Personally I like to see him try to come up with a split finger as he ages. Maybe work on it in the off-season.

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58. Bet Nola is wondering if he will ever see another W this year. Estevez a blown save …… not quite what we were looking for …….. we had people who could do that …. and did! Stevenson laid down a beauty …… didn’t he. Exciting evening for those in attendance, with lots of entertaining moments and personalities.

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    1. disappointing that Washington scored two runs off of Estevez in the 9th so Nola didn’t get the win… I couldn’t see the game so I don’t know if the Nationals were getting good swings off of him, but, at least he didn’t walk anyone!!!!!

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       1. It was a little bit of both. The first two runners were basically just bad luck. They both swung at a pitcher’s pitch, and both got a hit. The first on a kinda hard hit ground ball that found a hole (it was an easy out if it was 6 inches in either direction). And the second one was a bloop flare that Marsh just barely couldn’t get to on a dive.

          Either or both could have easily been outs, but that’s baseball. The next batter was all on Estevez, though. He missed badly on the first 3 pitches, and then just sent 3 pitches over the heart of the plate. The third of those being almost dead center and getting scorched on a groundball.

          The 4th batter he was most in the zone, but he was missing the spots JT was calling by a lot. He ended up inducing another grounder, but the guy on third was just too fast to catch him after getting the initial out (he didn’t run on contact, hence why they didn’t go straight home). Again, another good pitch and it induced a good result. Just not in that scenario.

          He was fairly locked in on that last two guys, but the damage was done.

          So, all in all, if you run back those same pitches again, you likely get out of it with only 1 run allowed. But it wasn’t entirely bad luck. There was some bad pitching in the middle of it.

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       2. Little bit of bad luck, but also some bad pitching. I’d say if you normalized for luck, usually you’d only allow 1 run pitching the way he did.

          But the only reason he didn’t walk anyone was because when he got to 3 balls, he just kept throwing it down the center of the plate. And that’s how they scored the first run. So it wasn’t an exceptionally pitched inning by any means.

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          1. Count me as one simply less than impressed with his arrival. All I had heard made me think he was more than he is. As someone mentioned he is very similar to what was here before. At least to this point.

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             1. Estevez has the arm but for some reason, since joining the Phillies, his walk rate has almost doubled. And that’s getting him into trouble.

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    2. It is disappointing for Nola. That is 4 wins now the BP has cost him after having 2 and 3 run leads late. But at least they won this time. I am big fan of the bunt by Stevenson. One thing is true. It is much easier for a left handed batter to bunt than a right handed hitter. That is not to say that there are not guys who bat right handed who are excellent. But one does have to work at it. That is where I just see much less emphasis in today’s game. Enough. Regarding Estevez there were many on here who felt Phillies gave up TOO much. After watching him a few times I fall in their camp. I had never seen him before. But to say I am less than impressed is an understatement. I am not sure the Phillies have that guy who can come in with a one run lead in the 5th or 7th game and put it in the W column.

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59. Romus or anyone. I just have a generic question. We have concessions at the Indiana State Fair now. Prices are sky high on items. What do prices at a Phillies game for items run? I thought of that last night when they were interviewing some of the guys and showing some of the food places. Few years ago, when I was at Jerry’s World for a Cowboy’s game, I think a can of beer was like $12. Sure, more now. Thanks for anyone who knows this.

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    1. That’s the way it’s supposed to be in Texas, ……. everything is bigger, more is better, etc., etc. even words are longer. I ran into a Texan bird hunting one time. He was pulling a railroad car (that big) with a Mercedes Benz. He called his dog, …Yaawcomheahyadamndog!

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       1. Too funny. I asked a simple question. I got a really long word for an answer. I was at the Big Tex in Amarillo one night and if you could eat a 64-ounce steak, huge baked potato, and a large salad in either 30 minutes or an hour you got if free. They had like 3 or 4 guys on an elevated table trying to do it

          Turkey legs at fair are like $20. Hamburgers and Hot Dogs are $10. Drinks are ridiculous. Things are crazy priced. Bet they are really high at CBP as well. They certainly are at Gainbridge Fieldhouse and Lucas Oil Stadium. T Mac claims almost nightly how good the food is at CBP>

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          1. I almost always get crab fries at the park, and they were $15 years ago. For crab fries. It’s probably more expensive now.

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          2. Certain places in CBP have really good food, but on average I wouldn’t say it’s anything special. It used to be better before they switched vendors.

             As for cost, hotdogs are about $5 each and (non-craft) beers are about $9.25.

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             1. So basically, Dan there are cheesesteaks that are pretty good. Then there are CHEESESTEAKS that are top quality and only those special people warrant those. The only person on this site that I can see falling in that category is Romus. Congrats Romus.

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          3. “T Mac claims almost nightly how good the food is at CBP”…….he has put on some pounds of late.

             Personally I miss the Schmidter sandwich……they did away with it a few years ago….and it was not named after Mike Schmidt.

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             1. The Schmidter was from McNally’s at the top of Chestnut Hill – very nice little local flavor. By the way, the Federal Donuts fried chicken sandwich is very good, as are the ribs and the Kielbasa “Bull Dog” from Bull’s. If you like Shake Shack their food is always good and consistent. Not a fan of the Manko and Manko pizza at the park – it’s pretty mediocre and it’s not cheap. Not sure if it’s better at the shore. I’m a big fan of the Campo’s cheesesteak – love it with Cheez Whiz “wit” the fried onions.

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                1. Have not tried Fed Donuts fried chicken sandwich…need to give that a go…and yes Manko’s pizza down the shore , for some reason, is better, who knows why…..ocean salt air!

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                2. catch. Cheesesteaks probably get the most play. I know they always on other broadcasts talk about how many they get while in Philly. I like cheesesteaks but not with all the toppings. Not onions or peppers guy here.

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                3. @Don, mostly when they’re talking about cheesesteaks they aren’t talking about the ones us common folks can buy at the park. The players and staff/on-air talent have their own special supply.

                   Not to say the ones at the park are necessarily bad (some are, but there are multiple options for good ones). Just that the ones they’re talking about are arguably the best in Philly.

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             2. True for T Mac. But do you see the helpings they bring up to them? The other night when they were in the crowd, they just kept passing stuff back to the fans. Is CBP cashless? All the venues around here are that way now. Grand Park only takes credit cards. They always are praising Bull’s, but I am not a barbeque person so probably not be a favorite of mine.

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60. Seeing Glasnow is being put on IL with elbow tendonitis. One has to give the Dodgers credit. With all of their injuries they are still in 1st place. But the Padres and Dbacks are chomping on their heels. NL West should be interesting next few weeks. Glasnow is really good but has difficult time staying healthy.

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61. Dan…..you did your across America Ballpark Tour a few years ago….what park offered up the best food dishes/sandwiches? I always hear about American Family….the old Miller Field…. in Milwaukee

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    1. Milwaukee was one of the few places I didn’t get food inside the park. I joined a local tailgate beforehand (shoutout to the Brewers fans for adopting me for the day), so I was stuffed well before game time.

       Of all the others, it probably depends on your personal food preferences. But San Diego (tri-tip nachos), Seattle (Vogey Hoagie), and Washington (bahn mi hot dog) stood out for me. (The food in parentheses was my personal favorite; each of the parks had a lot of really good options)

       The Yankees were odd in that they had really, really good options if you were willing to pay extra. But for the standard fair, it was pretty mediocre. As if a trip to Yankee stadium wasn’t expensive enough already.

       Also worth noting, I really liked the food in Arlington. But that was before they moved into their new digs. And from what I hear, the food at the new park is pretty soulless.

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       1. Thanks Dan……I do remember when you were at PNC Pittsburgh holding up your sign, and of course Kruky said something funny.

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          1. I think it was in Cincinatti that TMac compared me to Wilson, the neighbor in Home Improvement, because I would just stick my eyes above my sign with the rest of me hidden haha.

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             1. Dan. I have the Nats telecast on tonight. For some reason I am not getting Phillies guys tonight. First time in quite a while. Anyway, they showed one of the guys cooking Cheesesteaks and announcer said the BEST cheesesteaks in Philly are in visitor locker-room. So now we know where they go. LOL

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62. Here is one for you. Rosenthal is saying in the final 24 hours the Phillies and Dodgers were not turned off by Crochet demands and both made very attractive offers to the White Sox. Of course both were turned down. Says Painter was not part of the package. Does not list who was other than it was attractive deal by both teams. No Dodgers are listed either. But concluded not to be surprised if the Phillies go back to this matter in a few months. FWIW. Just something to keep in mind as the months go by.

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63. Looks like the Phillies have given up with Marsh against lefties. Third straight lefty starter and third straight time Marsh doesn’t start the game.

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    1. In spite of him having multiple hits against lefty relievers recently. I genuinely despise this aspect of Thomson’s managing style. The older guys get to play whenever they feel like, but Marsh can’t play his way into a full-time role no matter what. He started the year on fire, still sat against lefties. He hits lefties, still sits against lefties.

       I know he’s had some struggles, but you gotta wonder if maybe he’s struggling BECAUSE he gets such inconsistent starts. If we can tolerate Castellanos swinging at sliders 3 feet out of the zone for 3 months, we can deal with Marsh looking bad for a couple of at bats every 3rd game.

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       1. I’m far from being a Castellanos fan, but to his credit, he’s had a .854 OPS the last 28 days.

          Weston Wilson is obviously hot right now, so I think Thomson is going with the hot hand.

          Even Johan Rojas has been hitting better of late with a .723 OPS in his last 28 days.

          You could argue that Marsh is the odd man out right now, especially with his .518 OPS in his last 28 days. I think he’ll be a platoon player the rest of the season. If he wants to be full time, he’ll need to prove it in ST.

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          1. I can fully understand going with the hot hand. But he only does so at the expense of the young guys. Casty is hitting now, but what about for the entire season up until the All-Star break? He was hitting terribly and was bad defensively. Meanwhile, Marsh was the hot hand. But it was Marsh getting sat consistently. Castellanos literally never misses a start. No matter what. But Marsh can be OPSing over 1.000 and still get benched because the opposing pitcher with a 6 ERA happens to throw from the left side.

             He literally CAN’T prove anything to become a full time player. Because he’s not rewarded for succeeding. He’s only ever punished.

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       2. The Phillies need to eat $20M and move Castellanos to a DH needy team. Then put Marsh, Rojas, Hays in the OF and see what happens. It’s prove it time for all 3 OFs. Weston Wilson could be the 4th OF.

          Have Rincones and Crawford at AAA waiting.

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          1. I can envision an OF from left to right…Marsh, Crawford and Rojas….could be one of the better defensive OFs in baseball. Offensively may not not generate a lot of power, but plenty of speed and maybe more contact as they get more experience.

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64. Tyler Phillips has been sent down, Tyler Gilbert is up. It’s a curious move since Thomson has said that Suarez will likely be activated next weekend, so the Phillies will need a pitcher on Tuesday. The Phillies have an off day Monday and theoretically could have Wheeler start Tuesday on regular rest.

    Kolby Allard cannot be recalled because he hasn’t spent 15 days in the minors since his demotion.

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    1. I don’t see it as odd at all. Wheeler prefers pitching on regular rest, so I’m betting it is exactly the plan to use the off day to just skip the 5th spot in the rotation. Which would then line up for having Ranger pitch Sunday in KC. And then they just have Gilbert as an emergency long-man.

       It’s a win-win. Wheeler gets to stay in his groove, and we don’t throw away a game by having Phillips pitch again.

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65. If I’m a ML pitcher, I believe I can K Rojas every time…….. just throw him a crew neck high fast ball right down the middle ……… he’ll swing everytime.

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66. Prior to today’s game, since the All-Star Break:

    Brandon Marsh, 82 PA, 30 K — yes, striking out in 36.6% of his PA — .173/.232/.280 for a .512 OPS

    Nick Castellanos, 104 PA, 13 K, .302/.356/.521 for an .877 OPS

    Johan Rojas, 50 PA, 9 K, .311/.367/.356 for a .723 OPS

    Weston Wilson, 34 PA, 10 K, .375/.382/.781 for a 1.164 OPS

    Facing a talented lefty today in Gore, I would have gone with the same OF that Thomson went with — and they went 5-11 with 2 RBI, 2 Runs, and 2 SB today, so Thomson’s lineup produced. If Marsh wants more playing time, he should hit better. He’s a very good defender in left, but he’s not going to earn ABs hitting like he has recently.

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    1. Again, in a vacuum today’s lineup didn’t bother me. But this line of thinking ONLY applies to the young guys. It never applies to Castellanos. And don’t forget, yesterday’s lefty was NOT good. Are you seriously telling me you don’t believe Marsh can hit a lefty with an ERA of 6? Plus he only got 1 PA yesterday, and what did he do? He SMOKED the ball.

       And today was the third game in a row he sat. What did he do the last game he started? Went 2-4. His reward for having a good game was to get 1 PA in 3 days. He didn’t even get to hit in a blowout.

       But even still, in a vacuum, that doesn’t bother me that much. It is simply knowing that this poor kid for the first MONTH of the season had a .855 OPS… and that earned him over 20% FEWER PAs than the guy with a .460 OPS and the worst OF defense in baseball. Where was the “ride the hot hand” mentality then?

       And for all of the consternation about Marsh’s struggles against lefties, guess what? Casty has been below-average against righties this year. Why does he never get a day off against a tough righty?

       I just want consistency. If Thomson is a players’ manager, then he shouldn’t be playing favorites. Go to bat for your young guys just like you constantly do for the guys who probably need the vote of confidence way less.

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    2. Again, in a vacuum today’s lineup didn’t bother me. But this line of thinking ONLY applies to the young guys. It never applies to Castellanos. And don’t forget, yesterday’s lefty was NOT good. Are you seriously telling me you don’t believe Marsh can hit a lefty with an ERA of 6? Plus he only got 1 PA yesterday, and what did he do? He SMOKED the ball.

       And today was the third game in a row he sat. What did he do the last game he started? Went 2-4. His reward for having a good game was to get 1 PA in 3 days. He didn’t even get to hit in a blowout.

       But even still, in a vacuum, that doesn’t bother me that much. It is simply knowing that this poor kid for the first MONTH of the season had a .855 OPS… and that earned him over 20% FEWER PAs than the guy with a .460 OPS and the worst OF defense in baseball. Where was the “ride the hot hand” mentality then?

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       1. Have to agree…..Marsh has approx 350 PAs compared to the other starters with approx 500…those who have not been on the IL for long periods of time like Turner and JTR. Rojas is another but he was well below average in his first 2 1/2 months….even Stott has about 80 more PAs. Casty and Marsh have virtually the same OPS+, with Marsh have approx. 150 less PAs. Not sure what the future will be for Marsh in Philly if this continues into next season.

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          1. I think the difference is, some of the PP posters think of Marsh as a “starter” and the Phillies think of him as a platoon bat (285 PA this year against RHP, 67 against LHP). Today the Nats are throwing a RHP and Marsh is in the lineup, just as you would expect of a platoon player. I totally get the position that he needs ABs to develop against LHP. I also get the position that this team is trying to win a World Series and development at the major league level is not on the agenda.

             Practically, if Marsh wants to play every day, he needs to hit LHP better. .523 OPS this year against LHP with a K rate over 40%, and a .578 OPS in his career against LHP. We can all agree that Casty shouldn’t be the right fielder and should be a DH somewhere, but for 2024 and 2025 the DH spot is occupied, so Casty is in RF. Maybe he is the DH in 2026. I don’t think Marsh not playing against lefties is because Thomson favors veterans — Wilson and Rojas are obviously not established veterans in any way — I think it’s because Marsh hasn’t hit lefties well. I like Marsh and I hope he stops striking out in over 40% of his PAs against lefties.

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             1. If it’s purely on the back of performance, then Castellanos should be sitting against righties.

                Last year, before this strict platoon started, Marsh posted a 96 wRC+ against lefties. And yet, he sat in TWO OF THE FIRST THREE GAMES this season because they were lefty starters. So obviously Thomson thinks that a 96 wRC+ is too low to get play time, right?

                Castellanos hasn’t posted a wRC+ above 94 against righties in his entire tenure with the Phillies.

                So I don’t know if Thomson has favorites. But if he doesn’t, he absolutely has a LEAST favorite. Marsh is simply not being treated the same as the other guys.

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67. Who gets shipped down when Hays and Suarez return? It probably has to be one of Wilson or Stevenson and most likely Gilbert.

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    1. No chance Wilson is sent down. I’m assuming it is Stevenson who goes.

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68. Guys we should know by now that Casty is one of if not the favorite of Rob. That is pretty easy to see. Maybe DD has final word on that I do not know.

    My question for Romus or any of you is how many of these colored bats do these guys get made? Turner was rocking the powder blue bat and accessories last night. Nats announcers claimed Harper was rocking a bat like he used in the HR derby with the stars on it. One never knows what Harper will have on, but you can rest assured it will be coordinated. Lots of Phanatic gear,

    It is August 18th. Phillies have reclaimed top spot in NL. Can they hold on to it till the end of September this time?

    Just my opinion on Marsh. I think he is not in the lineup because he simply takes too many strikes during his at bats. At least on TV it appears he takes one or two pitches almost right down the middle of the plate each at bat. Maybe it is only numbers deal and guys Casty is not coming out if he is healthy. So only 2 spots in outfield available. If he is here next year, I would be pretty certain if Rob is calling the shots he is in RF again almost all the time. Some things change. Some things do not. Casty in RF is one that does not. He has 2 more years at 20M to go.

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    1. Don….if the Phillies do not get to the World Series…they will not run the same team back next season, that is a very obvious observation. Of all the big tickets guys…Casty seems to be the one that logically will be exited.

       Bats…I think each guy had a three or four specific separate desings….one for each game in the players’ weekend. I assume they had two, of each design, for each day….in case they break one.

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       1. Romus. I have zero info. But I think Harper, Turner, Schwarber, JT, and Casty all return. Of the high dollar guys, the only one that I am pretty certain will have a new home is Walker. Phillies may have to eat most of salary. I wonder what the package was for Crochet. Rosenthal said it was attractive, but Painter was not part of it.

          T Mac said most got 2 of each and some 1. Those are really cool. I think Stubbs broke his on that single. I had to leave when it was 2-2 and see did not end well. Take 3 or 4 and move on.

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69. Marsh strikes out at the highest rate on the team behind Schwarber, unacceptable from a guy with 11 HRs and is a gap hitter.

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    1. And yet he still gets on base more than Rojas, JT, Stott, and Castellanos (plus a bunch of non-starters). And he’s only ground into 2 double plays all season. That’s the lowest of any of the starters. Even lower than Schwarbs (3) who has almost no opportunity to do so and Turner (4) who is one of the fastest players in the game.

       Striking out a lot is by no means ideal. But you don’t need to hit a lot of home runs to be a good offensive player even if you do. And Marsh has shown he’s plenty capable of being a very good offensive player in spite of it.

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70. If RT doesn’t use Harper or JT to pinch hit here in the 9th I’d let him have it. This nonsense where he gives a player a day off and refuses to use them in a PH opportunity is ludicrous.

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    1. Start throwing the beer cups.

       Absolutely insane that you would get a leadoff man aboard and let Cal Stevenson and Garrett freaking Stubbs hit instead of JT (who’s been hot this series) and the face of your freaking franchise and future hall of famer Bryce Harper.

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       1. Like it or not but Thomson is playing the 162-game season. His primary goal is to get into the post-season with a team that is healthy and he’s not going to deviate from that plan.

          In the end they lost because the Nats bullpen was better than the Phillies pen.

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          1. The operative phrase there is “get into the post-season”.

             If 1 PA is such an injury concern, then he should be telling his players to never swing the bat when they’re up big, and Bryce should be getting replaced every time a game gets out of hand in either direction. But he doesn’t do that, so I suspect he doesn’t think going to the plate is all that dangerous.

             And sure. The loss is on the bullpen (and Walker). Doesn’t mean you have to just throw it away when there’s an evidently achievable win-condition.

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             1. Dan…I guess Top was going by the probabilities…..home teams sweep 4-game series’ only 17% of the time…….he may not want to change that stat…even in the minuteness.

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             2. Don’t be obtuse. It’s not 1 PA, it’s the cage work and everything else that goes into preparing for that one PA where the odds say the result will be an out 70% of the time. The goal is to give them a day off their feet.

                Throw in all the snark you want but they aren’t missing the playoffs because he didn’t pinch hit for Stubbs against the Nationals in August.

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                1. What? They don’t have to put in any extra work than they already would have. Do you think they don’t take swings on their day off? And I’d still rather have a 30% chance of winning than a 15%.

                   These games add up. This isn’t the first time Stubbs has been the final out in a close game. And we’re fresh off a stretch of going from easily the best record in baseball to a game away from 3rd in the NATIONAL LEAGUE. Don’t give up on winnable games just because we’re PROBABLY going to win our division. Bigger collapses have happened, and they often happened on the margins. Every game matters until we are mathematically set in our playoff seeding.

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             3. Dan. I am not as big of defender of Marsh as you are at this time. But I am ok with him. It is simply numbers. There are two positions for a number of guys and really no one has taken either for themselves. Casty is going to be the RF guy.

                But I agree on winning a game if the opportunity presents itself. I was always told the reason they keep score is that you try to win. Maybe not at all costs but you give it your best shot. This game may mean nothing at the end. It may mean who gets the 1 or 2 seed. I did not see last few innings. Sounds like BP did not do their job. That area actually may be my most concern now. I am not a fan of Estevez in the times I have seen him so far. Hope he gets better.

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                1. I don’t even particularly want to defend Marsh as much as I have been recently. I just want him to be treated fairly/equitably. He’s treated like a replaceable AAAA platoon hitter by both the manager and a (fairly large) section of the fan base. And yet he’s shown so much more than that when given the opportunity.

                   Will he ever be a star player? I don’t know. But he’s young, and has proven to be an asset in multiple ways. And he’s also shown the ability to adapt and improve. He deserves to get the same vote of confidence from his manager that every other starter has gotten during prolonged slumps.

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          2. I guess they’ll still get their participation award.

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71. Turner is definitely the hottest hitting player on the Phillies right now, but a good argument could be made that Nicky C is right up near the top for not just the past week but for the past several months. It is amazing that his average is up to .245 after how he started, and it is both a tribute and reward to the faith his manager put in him. Giving players the opportunity to hit in situations where their ABs make a difference may not turn around their performance, but yanking them in those situations seems pretty likely to do the opposite, doesn’t it?

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    1. Nicky C, so far, has played in all 124 Phillies games to date, only player on the team to do that…..he never needs a rest.

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72. Romus. Not only has he played in all he has only been taken out for a few innings in blowout games. If you take it on an inning basis I bet, he is in the 99% area. Reason I disagree that if Phillies do not win, he will be moved. I honestly believe he does all the things they want him to do. Plus, you never hear him make any controversial remarks one way or the other. Simply comes to work and does his job as best he can. He always hustles. You never seem him jog down the first base line on a ball.

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    1. Good points Don…….and he has been getting some offensive traction recently. Still , if they lose in the first or second round of the play-offs does Dave D. come back with the same team! If not, then who who is gone!

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       1. Romus. You may be right that someone goes but I think the 2025 version looks very similar to the 2024 team win or lose. Phillies really do not have lots of options. Seems today that teams are not really into eating contracts. They got Wheeler, Nola, Harper, Turner who are going nowhere. Then Casty, Walker, Schwarber, JT and Sanchez. I may be missing someone, but this is the core under contract. Bohm and Stott will be there. I really only see them unloading Walker. I may be way off base. I am no expert.

          See today that the Sox wanted Painter. Phillies said no. Neither article says who they offered but you can guess probably at least 3 top prospects.

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    2. DD traded for Austin Hays so you know that he’s going to get his shares of ABs. I expect Crawford to start 2025 at Lehigh.

       Castellanos may be a good soldier but he’s the most expensive player (2/40 left) and the oldest (33 in March). His defense is destroying his value. I would rather have Hays in RF than Castellanos. Perhaps Hays won’t be able to hit as well as Castellanos, but his defense has to be way better.

       Eat $20M and trade Castellanos for a lotto ticket and move on.

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73. Regular season stats don’t mean much once you get to the post season. Win the division get some rest and let’s see what happens.

    There are definitely other teams that will be very capable of getting to the last dance as well.

    But that’s what MLB wanted and that is what it has become.

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74. Before we talk about who will be or won’t be with next season’s team, tell me who is going to pitch in KC on Saturday. Might it be Suarez?

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    1. Assuming no set backs between now and then, I imagine that is precisely the plan. He was on track to be activated this weekend. Now we pray that he’s 100%. We can’t afford to have two guys in the rotation that are essentially auto-losses.

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    2. Believe the guys were kind of hinting yesterday that is most likely. Wheeler, Nola and most likely Sanchez in Atlanta.

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75. Riley out 6-8 weeks should help with this series.

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76. Closing this discussion. New one –

    Phillies Discussion, 8/19/24 | Phuture Phillies

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