541 thoughts on “Phillies Discussion, 7/29/24”

1. I hate the trade. Hate all the last minute deadline trades. Klassen and Adegheri are not blocked by anybody. That’s nuts. They are 22. In two years Wheeler will be 36 and Nola 33. Who knows how effective the will be. What is just about the oldest saying in baseball? You can never have too much pitching. And I agree about the O’Hoppe trade.

   Defense cost the Phillies the two games over the weekend. Marsh should have caught the ball in LF Friday night. That was three runs. And a decent fielding SS turns the ball yesterday in the 4th inning into a DP. Turner is a mediocre fielder which is death at SS. He has to hit and hit a lot to make up for that.

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   1. the Phillies need bullpen arms and they do not seem to be going cheap right now.

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   2. Dombrowski is going for the ring now, in fact it will be his third with three different teams which may be a record for a ‘GM’, and he also sees the stars on this team aging or as the common expression goes, the windows is not wide open anymore but beginning it closing. So he will sacrifice some of the farm to get to the goal. In some ways I am thankful he has some discretion in the trades……I can just imagine the Philadelphia fan base sentiment if he had AJ Preller approach.

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      1. I care about the Phillies franchise not how many rings Dombrowski can accumulate with how many different franchises.

         Pitchers drop like flies these days, both in the majors and minors. The Phillies started eleven pitchers last year and ten this year and we still have over two months left. 40% of the anticipated starters at the beginning of the year are on the IL. They just traded two potential starters for a relief pitcher who can hit the road in a few months. I don’t like that mind set. In fact they just traded three pitchers and got one back.

         ‘

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   3. I have a different take. I think trading potential future value for present value that can help us win a World Series is really smart and a great strategy. Further, I also hope that these prospects that we trade have a great career and that would not make me upset at all. The reason that I like trading prospects is the based on all of the complaining that you will read on this board…fans and teams overvalue prospects. Its a natural human reaction based on natural bias. We humans love people on “our team” (sports, politics, etc) and do not objectively look at them. The reality is the best prospect that we have traded in all of my time as a Phillies fan was Carlos Carrasco for Cliff Lee. None of the other prospects that we traded amounted to anything of significance.

      Let’s talk about O’Hoppe. First, I love him. I hope O’Hoppe becomes a Hall of Famer. However, I still think that was a good trade for both teams. What short memories people have. Prior to acquiring Marsh, Kyle Schwarber was our left fielder. He was the literal worst defensive player in MLB. Not worst OF’er, the worst defensive player. An absolute butcher. So we had to acquire a starting quality left fielder. Post trade, not only did Marsh dramatically improve our left field defense (he has been a +20 in DRS the past 3 years including a +11 in LF this year) he had the 5th best OPS on our team in 2022. In 2023 he was second on our team in OB% and OPS. He was a 3.5 WAR player last year and is on the same pace to do that again this year. Do you have any idea how hard it is to acquire a player on their rookie contract that produces a 3.5 WAR season? Let alone 2 seasons? And while he has struggled hitting LHP this year, it is not locked in stone that he will not be able to hit LHP going forward. We got a really good MLB left fielder (great defensively and really, really good offensively prior to this season) for a catcher who was blocked for several years. I can’t believe that people would rather have a backup catcher who would play 40 games than a starting LF. Not only that, Marsh is young and cheap and under team control for a long time. That was a great, great trade. But if that still isn’t enough to convince you, then please let me know, how would you acquire a starting quality OF’er for a lesser prospect? Or are you suggesting that we just go for a world series with the worst defensive player in baseball in left field?

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      1. The Lee trade (and Halliday trade) were completely different than these last minute deadline trades for rental relievers. They were off season trades for superstar pitchers. You expect to trade top prospects in those trades and you have a minimum of a full year from the acquired pitchers. More if they were still under multi year contracts.

         It is a difference in philosophy. I don’t like trading prospects for rentals. It is short term gain for long term pain.

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         1. Please name all of the prospects that we have traded mid-season that have been really good MLB players.

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            1. We don’t know about Brown, Lee, Aldegheri and Klassen yet. That’s like saying what has Estevez done yet for the Phillies.

               I will take my chances with Brown/Lee over Robertson/Lorenzen going forward.

               My mistake on the timing of the Lee trade.

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            2. Let me take a stab v1…..

               • Kyle Drabek, oops sorry
               • Jon Singleton, oh my bad
               • Jason Knapp, ummm
               • Jason Donald? No? Ok…
               • Lou Marson, dangit
               • Anthony Gose?
               • JA Happ, maybe
               • Jonathan Villar was okay…
               • Michael Taylor?
               • Travis D’Arnaud has been ok
               • Jarred Cossart, ha

               Ok judge says V1 1, NL 0

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               1. I see your point, and valid….though v1 asked specifically for mid-season/July deadline trades…..some of those were off-season trades. Though I do recall one prospect of the many that have been dealt, who stood out , Julio ‘down-by- the school-yard’ Franco.

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         2. Today is literally the 15 year anniversary of the Lee trade (the good one where we acquired him, not the infamous one). Unless I’m suffering from a severe case of dementia, I’m pretty sure July 29th has never constituted the MLB offseason.

            You’re way overvaluing prospects.

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            1. Was getting ready to say the same thing. They acquired Lee at the trade deadline the first time. Lee and Ben Francisco for Carrasco, Donald, Knapp, and Marson.

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               1. At the time, Knapp was a low A flamethrower. Potential ToR prospect.

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         3. The Halladay trade was greatly skewed towards the Phillies because Halladay wanted to go to Philadelphia and nowhere else. The Phillies system at the time was terrible so they gladly traded away our prospects for the future HOFer.

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         4. the Lee trade was mid season at the trade deadline

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      2. Another bias that I would note when evaluating players is that fans significantly under value defense. Particularly outfield defense. Brandon Marsh has the 3rd best defensive runs saved among outfielders this season at +14. So acquiring him allowed us to move the worst defender in all of MLB to the DH role and we replaced him with one of the best defensive OF. We complain when the bats go cold, but that is why we need good defensive players. Defense doesn’t slump.

         Regarding “he’s a platoon player”, 75% of MLB starting pitchers are right handed. Marsh is hitting .275/.353/.483/.836 against RHP. While playing elite defense on a rookie contract. Marsh’s OPS against RHP ranks 15th in all of MLB against RHP.

         Marsh is a really good player. He has struggled against LHP this year. That happens to basically all MLB players. Everyone has a tough hear or two. But again, he is on a rookie contract and under control for a long time. I can’t stress his contract enough. He is a really good athlete and a hard worker and I expect him to figure it out.

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         1. Marsh IS the very definition of a platoon player. He was given a start against a LHP yesterday as a reward for his performance Saturday. A start against a kid making his first major league start. That should be a confidence builder.

            Marsh has had extreme platoon splits for three seasons now. It didn’t just manifest itself this season. So, it’s almost etched in stone.

            Because of the players at the top of the Phillies batting order, Schwarber and Harper, the Phillies face an inordinate number of left-handed starters. Teams in our division and likely playoff opponents load up on left-handed relievers.

            75% of starting pitchers in the major leagues may be right-handed, but the Phillies have faced about 41% left-handed starters (43 of 105).

            Yes, the contract and his age are in our favor. However, I don’t throw superlatives around like great and elite. It was a good trade although I hated the loss of O’Hoppe then even though I didn’t expect him to make his way to the Phillies until this year or next. Marsh may be an elite left fielder, but he’s not an elite center fielder and that’s where he’s going to play now that Hays is going to get everyday play in left. As a Phillies fan who values my players more than I should, I expect that Marsh is a better left fielder than Hays. Therefore, the new outfield lineup makes our outfield defense weaker. However, that’s a tradeoff I’m willing to accept if the offense improves.

            I have more to say but I’m leaving to watch the new guys take BP at the Complex and to watch some live BP.

            Let me close, for now, with this. That was a very good catch by Marsh at the wall to take a HR away from the other team. And, that little mix up between Marsh and Castellanos on the ball that almost fell for a hit between them is the result of new outfielder partners getting used to each other. No fault assigned to Marsh.

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            1. When you wrote your post, were you aware that O’Hoppe’s current LH split is .190/.261/.365/.626 and that last year Marsh’s LH split was .229/.321/.396/.717?

               Marsh is having a bad year hitting LHP. No question. But last year he was much better than O’Hoppe hitting LHP.

               Below is a really good article about how Schwarber and KLong are working with Marsh on his approach vs LHP. Schwarber had a terrible LHP splits early in his career. Now he is mashing them. His quotes are that you have to change your approach against LHP. Something that Marsh can learn.

               https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5617376/2024/07/05/brandon-marsh-phillies-platoon-everyday-player/

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               1. People really do overlook outfield defense. Every single ball hit to schwarber that he had to move left or right on was an automatic double. Now those balls are caught or runners are kept to singles. Don’t people realize that our pitching staff has been helped out tremendously by Marsh being in left and Rojas in Center?

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               2. Bit misleading….229 against LHP last year but most of those opportunities were against back end control pitchers like Bailey Falters, Cole Irvin, Pat Corbin of the world…he sat against anything close to TOR LH SP and most of the mid rotation/bottom rotation LH SP. Guys like Gore who’s got nasty stuff but meh results….it’s highly likely he would have hit comfortably below the Mendoza line if he saw the whole stable. Not even mentioning when he gets pinch hit for from the 7-9 innings against a Hader or even an Alvarado/Puk type

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               3. The “facts” you bring up are what I believe constitute a straw argument.

                  First of all, you are the one with the short memory. When the Phillies acquired Marsh, he was immediately moved from left field to center field. Schwarber remained the left fielder for the remainder of the 2022 season and Marsh made all 37 of his starts in center field. In 2023, Marsh remained the starting center fielder for 100 games with 13 starts in left and 3 in right. Schwarber made 103 starts in left and 57 as the DH.

                  Marsh didn’t become our starting left fielder until this year.

                  Second, I was not aware of O’Hoppe’s left-handed split this season. Why would I be? He’s a right-handed hitting starting catcher. Marsh is a left-handed hitting platoon outfielder. But of course, I was aware of Marsh’s left-handed split last year. That’s why I said extreme. His right-handed split last year was 63 points higher than his LH split.

                  But were you aware that Marsh’s left-handed split in 2022 was .188? That makes his righty/lefty splits the last three years – .262/.188 (2022), .292/.229 (2023), and .154/.280 (this year).

                  You compared Marsh’s good split last year (.229/.321/.396/.717) against O’Hoppe’s bad split this year (.190/.261/.365/.626). Would it not have been fairer to compare it against O’Hoppe’s split last year? I think so. O’Hoppe had a split of .293/.370/.561/.931.

                  So, you were wrong when you said, “But last year he (Marsh) was much better than O’Hoppe hitting LHP.”

                  And even though O’Hoppe is only hitting .191 against lefties, his backup (Thaiss) is only hitting .091 against them. Apparently, he’s the better option. That’s the Angels problem.

                  And finally, I don’t get why you have a problem with someone not liking a trade you value. Do you think you can bully me with stats and incorrect statements to seeing things your way?

                  I didn’t like the trade when it was announced. I foresaw the need for a starting catcher and that O’Hoppe could be that guy. The Phillies did too. I guessed at his development plan from 2022 thru 2025 and was pretty accurate. Then he was traded. I liked Marsh and grew to accept the trade. However, circumstances have changed. Marsh went from an almost everyday outfielder to a guy who had to give time so that Whitfield got at bats to a platoon in center field until Hays proves he can’t play everyday.

                  Meanwhile, O’Hoppe is catching 80% of the starts in LA. The same percentage that Realmuto caught last year when he was healthy and probably would have caught this year had he not had surgery.

                  Maybe if the Phillies had won the world series in 2022, I would feel differently. But I can’t like a trade of a player I could see as our eventual replacement for our aging catcher for a platoon outfielder who strikes out 32% of the time (10 percentage points above league average).

                  We’ll have to agree to disagree. Neither of us is going to change the other’s mind. And I’m tired of explaining why I’m right. 🙂

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               4. “Bully you”

                  What? Are we not allowed to disagree with you and make a strong argument with a different pov?

                  We are only allowed to agree with you? Now who’s making the straw man?

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               5. v1, depending on what day it is, no you cannot make an argument against Jim’s opinion. I’m much, much less educated than the average commenter on here which is why I comment infrequently. The other reason is I’ve been blocked for weeks and months at a time because I’ve disagreed with Jim, usually about his negativity regarding one of the greatest players to ever wear the red pinstripes. So I’ve mostly given up on trying to say anything opinionated and just view and learn from people like you and the many other great baseball minds on this site. And yes, this post will get me Elon Musked on this site for another 2-6 months but I’ll be following you guys and enjoying the great commentary. I’ll say hello if and when I’m allowed back into Communist Phuture Phillies…

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         2. I’m fine with the Marsh trade. also, while I appreciate WAR it’s hard to quantify because it’s a spreadsheet math equation that is not a tangible statistic. Like OPS, SLG, etc. you can quantify them (the more your on base, and the more XBH you get while on base what u strive for, hence u quantify it with OPS). There are literally 2 definitions of WAR that we use so there’s not even a universal equation. Plus the 3.5 WAR Marsh had last year is a tad misleading. A very high likelihood if he wasn’t hidden against his toughest pitching matchups his WAR declines. 25-30 games or so I’d say he sat via the platoon. That includes all of nasty, allstar type lefties we came across last year & most of the average ones. It to mention the haders of the world ext he gets pitch hit for…it’s highly likely his BA, OBP, OPS, all that would be very much down. Not to mention if he didn’t get kicked over to LF last year half way and stayed in center his WAR would have gone down. For example, if we sat Bohm 5 times a month against the most filthy RH pitchers (using this stretch for example, Glasnow, Burns, Cole, Castillo) his percentage stats would be higher/same with WAR..but he’s every day now….Marsh is a productive young player. And honestly he’s on the strong side of the platoon so he plays enough…I don’t see a 600 AB year in year out 6 hole hitter for the next 3 years or whatever it is…I see a 400ish number of AB every year, most of which in favorablish & being productive in that role….

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      3. ……..amen……. convinced me, not that you had too!

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         1. oldruff. you are funny. Baseball is a hard sport. Lots of failure by even the best. Hopefully all who are struggling some at the moment can figure it out as we go on the next 2 months.

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2. I totally agree with you on everything you mentioned about the Marsh-O’Hoppe trade, but did the Phillies realize at the time Marsh was a platoon hitting left fielder not an everyday centerfielder. I really thought O’Hoppe was our catcher for the next decade. I do enjoy watching Marsh and he seems like a wonderful team guy.

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3. It is totally inappropriate IMO to view a catcher’s value, such as JTR’s on his offensive stats, any more than it would have been Bob Boone’s, or (in the days when pitchers hit) Steve Carlton’s.

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   1. The reason why JT is the highest paid catcher is his offensive stats. If he can’t hit, he falls into the pack, which are mostly defense first catchers. The Guardians started 31 year old Austin Hedges yesterday. He has a career OPS of .562. He’s on his 4th team but he’s a defensive whiz with 6.9 dWar in 10 seasons.

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      1. Disagrees. He’s a general behind the plate, who controls the running game. That’s a large part of his value. I’d say 65%. His offensive numbers do take him to the top of MLb catchers, but if he stops hitting, he’s still up there due to pitch selection,sequences, and ability to throw runners out.

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         1. I never said that JT wasn’t a defensive catcher. Virtually all catchers in the bigs have to be defensive wizards to a certain extent. JT is the highest paid because he can hit better than the other catchers with similar defensive profiles. Same with Salvador Perez.

            The Phillies are paying him to be a 3 WAR player. To JT’s credit, he has largely live up to his contract, but at age 33, his oWar this season has been the worst in his career. He’s starting to decline.

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            1. His WAR is down because he missed a big chunk of the season due to the knee surgery. It’s not an indication that his performance is declining.

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               1. No, I think he’s declining a bit (and the numbers suggest that too), but he’s still a good player. Look, when he signed that contract, we all hoped that he would be a first division regular in year 4 of the deal and he is. So, now he’s probably more a 3 WAR player instead of a 4-6 WAR player, but he’s still very good. Whatever they do, they should NOT sign him to an extension this offseason or probably after that. Once this deal’s done, assuming they want him around, it should be year to year. Why? Catchers tend to fall off a cliff at around age 33 or 34. It’s not a coincidence his deal is ending in his age 34 year. Overall, it was a very good contract, which is all you ask.

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               2. Maybe. He also played much of the early season on a bad knee which probably impacted his overall numbers as well. Overall, his numbers are basically the same as his historical norms with the exception of slugging% which could be a result of his knee issue.

                  His K-Rate, Walk Rate, LD%, Hard-hit rate are all at career averages.

                  My issue is using WAR as a measure without noting that WAR in impacted by playing time. Pretty sure Acuna isn’t a .1 WAR player.

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               3. Obviously WAR is impacted by playing time, which is why I suggested he’s about a 3 WAR player even though he only has a 1.4 WAR now. My point is that he’s declining, although the decline has been gradual and he’s still a very good player.

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               4. WAR is supposed to be impacted by playing time. If you’re paying somebody to be a 3 WAR player and they don’t produce that because they are in decline or due to injury, the bottom line is that didn’t produce.

                  And in JT’s case, it’s both. He’s posting a .693 OPS. And as my friend likes to say, you don’t get healthier as you get older.

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         2. Realmuto’s value is in the way he handles pitchers and calls games. His offense and his control of the running game (65% is a ridiculously high number) contribute to his high salary. But his value to the team is the preparation he puts into a game and the trust the pitchers have in him behind the plate.

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4. In an article talking about the Estevez trade, Matt Gelb wrote the following that I think this group will find interesting:

   “The minor-league pitching group has demonstrated an ability to turn lesser draft picks and smaller-bonus pitchers into legitimate prospects. That is an asset, but the development pipeline will be tested with a smaller stockpile…The draft strategy is clear: The Phillies believe it’s tougher to obtain young hitters than pitchers. They are more willing to part with pitching prospects in trades because they think they are more replaceable than high-caliber hitting prospects. They believe they develop other pitchers. But, without continued investment, there might be a limit to that.”

   https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5664436/2024/07/28/phillies-trade-carlos-estevez/?source=user_shared_article Why the Phillies chose Carlos Estévez over others and other takeaways from deadline trades

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5. I disagree with the majority here, I love the Estevez trade. He is a legit closer and immediately lengthens the bullpen and will shorten the games in October. The Phils are not a young team and need to win now if they’re going to win with the current group. I’m sure the locker room is excited. You have to give up talent to get talent and I was expecting them to have to move Aldegheri or Klassen plus Caba or Tait. Trading both pitchers and keeping the two kids could turn out much better in the long run.
   As for the Marsh trade, they needed an OF. Unfortunately he hasn’t been as good as they hoped but he’s not fully developed yet.

   I expect one more trade, one for a journeyman starting pitcher like Lorenzen.

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6. A good Steward of a franchise realizes the key to sustained success is a pipeline of talent coming through the system at a low cost.

   You can buy all the proven MLB talent you want but you are always paying for past performance and unlikely to get that same value in the future performance model.

   In todays MLB you can seemingly have the best team in the league with little to no holes in your 26 and still not even make it to the WS.

   I thought the Hays deal was a savvy move which quickly made me think a bad move was about to happen. Estevez is a fine pitcher but again he’s a FA after this year going into an offseason when you wish to try and keep Hoffman and Ranger.

   Players with Aldegheri and Klassen’s profile should have yielded a player with 1-2 years of control at least.

   The icing on the cake is getting beat up by teams with a 3rd of your payroll.

   If I went to a race with my $300K Ferrari and had my tires melted off by a $20K worked Civic I’d pretty much feel like an idiot.

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   1. What if we resign Estevez this offseason? What if part of DD’s strategy is that we have such a great culture that players love it here that we can re-sign him?

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      1. The way the Estevez trade is a positive is if he pitches really well and is at least a major reason the Phillies get into the WS, AND:

         He signs an extension and doesn’t just leave without even a QO.

         The Phillies are in the playoffs. Anything less than a minimum WS appearance will be a disappointment.

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      2. Its a fair point and sure that changes the dynamic of the trade some for me but you have to see what happens there in its entirety.

         Because again you have Hoffman coming up and there is only so much $$$ that he will allocate towards the BP.

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         1. DD said in his presser that they plan to try to resign him

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            1. You know as well as I, he probably needs to say that right now….come November we will have to see how it plays out

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               1. I don’t recall him saying that in prior years actually. I don’t think that he had any intention to re-sign Lorenzen for example.

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   2. Well your Ferrari has the best record in the major leagues right now so apparently your car is superior to all of the others right now.

      The freak-out that comes with every stretch where they are not playing good baseball speaks to a bunch of fans not grasping the reality of a 162-game season. EVERY team is going to have stretches where they don’t play well, the bats go cold, the bullpen springs a leak, etc.

      The goal for this team is to get into the playoffs and win playoff series. Doesn’t matter if they get there winning 85 games or 105 games.

      The Marsh trade helped them get closer to that goal a couple of years ago when they realized they needed to get better in the OF both offensively and defensively. The simple fact is that O’Hoppe would currently be tearing up AAA ball right now if that trade didn’t happen. He wouldn’t be the back-up catcher for the same reason Marchan isn’t the back-up catcher. They would want him to be playing every day.

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      1. LOL My Ferrari as Ferrari’s often do after being driven hard for a hundred miles is leaking oil…

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7. You can count me as one who is concerned about the path the team is on at current time. Find it interesting the hard-hit ball reference Jim mentioned. I know I am old school, but I like the hard-hit line drives over the high fly balls that usually get caught unless they leave the ballpark. One of the brilliant hitting minds here did the same with my grandson. So instead of lots of hits and .475 or so .275 with lots of easy fly ball and pop outs. It appears to me right now the Phillies only have one of two ways to win. Throw a shutout and hope it is not a tie after 9 or hit a few HRs. I do not see that as a winning formula for the playoffs. Teams are going to be throwing their best guys and Phillies right now really are struggling to score on the BP of other teams. Some of these have not been the best teams though some of the BP guys on these lesser teams are good. I have no idea if anymore additions will make this team any better. Like Romus said the big $$$ guys have to step up. Seems like we are only getting one or so doing so at any given time. Early in the season it was a group effort. Plus, Stott, Marsh and these other guys have to make some contributions.

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8. This is a seller’s market. I thought the Hays trade was a savy move, Seranthony had pitched his way into a mop-up role here and Pache was going to be DFA’ed anyway.

   I think they definitely overpaid for Esteves but this is a sellers market and if that was their #1 target then I’m sorry but you don’t let your best second tier prospects hold you up from acquiring a missing piece to a championship run. If I had a crystal ball I would love to go back and trade Abel and McGarry at their peak value. Prospects are just that, prospects. I think they’ve identified their blue chip talent and are smart in holding onto them.

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9. Jim, I love this website. Thank you for all you do. Love all the posters too, I’ve learned a lot over the years as well.

   I don’t think the SP pool is that barren. Still have Painter (post TJ ), Abel (I have not given up on a 22 year old in AAA), Graves, McGowan (still being stretched out post TJ), and Mcfarlane (still recovering from TJ). Ok, that’s a lot of TJ. It looks like the draft yielded no SP which was odd but like V1 has mentioned for a while, they seem to have been able to develop these guys recently like Sanchez, Phillips, and Mercado (to some degree). Maybe they grab another guy off the scrap heap and make something of him.

   I like both trades a lot and I think another RP is coming so expect another prospect or 2 to be sent packing. The time to win is now, not worried too much about contracts, it’s not my money and JM has shown us he’s willing to spend and spent a lot.

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10. Regarding Stott, there are a couple reasons I don’t get on him for his lack of offense like I do for some others.

    The first is that part of the problem is he has had a decent amount of bad luck. There have been a LOT of games where he would hit the ball hard 2-3 times, and every time a defender would be right there. Not even a defender shifting him, either. Just a line drive right to the CF or 2B, or the 1B would make a great stop. It happens to everyone, I know, but it was happening to him practically every game for the first 50 or so. And I’m pretty sure that got into his head as time went on.

    The second is, he is still extremely discerning at the plate. The fact that he’s struggling to get his average above .240 but still walking over 10% of the time is kinda crazy. Pitchers have no reason NOT to challenge him, yet he still gets on base at a .322 clip. That is not bad by any stretch, and in fact his 10.6% walk rate is the highest of his career so far. He still works the count, and it’s the reason I feel confident he’ll get back to being a near-.300 hitter eventually.

    Plus he’s young, cheap, and doesn’t lose us games with his gloves unlike some other players who happen to play right field.

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11. Romus. I am seeing in a Sporting News article that your boy Kopech is one Rosenthal thinks the Phillies are very interested in at this time. He thinks Phillies will definitely add one more BP guy. Feels Scott or Kopech may be the guy. Sees Scott as #1 choice and Kopech as the fallback guy. Romus, you brought him up long ago and I have not really heard much about him since.

    Saw another that says Braves are hot for Robert and Phillies may regret not landing him. Normally these trade deadline guys are not total difference makers. They may fill a void. But the Braves struck gold a couple seasons ago when they won the WS with the rental guys who became MVPs of the LCS and Series.

    Last point is it is really hard to not be all in if you have a chance. Playoffs are so different than in the by gone days where you had the best team from the NL vs the best team from the AL over the 162-game season. Best of 7 and a champion was crowned. Now just so many things that can happen. First you have to win either 13 or 11 games to be the champ today. Nothing can go wrong in that length of time. Plus, it is so much more difficult to line up your pitchers now. I am all for the Phillies doing what they can now. But no move is a guarantee it gets them over the top. The guys that are here now have to play better. That is the bottom line. Hopefully they do.

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    1. I seriously doubt the Braves are going after Robert. Besides the fact that they don’t normally trade for large contracts, their farm system is not good enough to get a player like Robert. And they have Michael Harris in CF. So the Braves will trade for Robert and put him in LF?

       Alex Anthopoulos is a very good GM. He knows that he’s missing a lot of players due to injuries. I don’t think the Braves will push all their chips in this season.

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       1. Guru. No idea if they do or not. Just seeing it mentioned. Does Robert have a big contract at this time? Know he is under control for a bit. As you referenced the injuries but they kind of were similar I think in 21 and struck gold with those rental guys down the stretch and then they all left at least for a while. Everything is a crapshoot today.

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          1. Robert Jr. is due $15m in 2025 with 2 club options at $20m in 2026 and 2027.

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             1. If he stayed on the field more those numbers would be more reasonable. I really have not seen him play much so I am no expert on his total value. Think I saw around 100 games is the most he has played. That is many missed games.

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             2. Alex Ant. may see contract trouble brewing on the horizon with Acuna…he has grown unhappy with his LTC . He feels he has out performed his contract, well at least anyway before the latest ACL tear. He has two years left, then on top of that, two more team option years…finally ending prior to the 2029 season. In a way I do not blame Acuna for being disgruntled. Not sure that has anything to do with the Robert rumor or not….but the Braves may end up putting Acuna on the market to the highest bidder after next season

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    2. If I had to guess, I would guess that the Phillies gave the Angels the choice of Klassen and Abel, and the Angels, chose Klassen and that may be a good thing in the long run. Abel has had a horrendous year, but he’s finally recovered most (but not all) of his velocity. This could end up being a blessing in disguise and he’s still young.

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    3. I would love to see what Caleb Cotham could do with Kopech … maybe change of scenery helps and different voice. He’s got the stuff, I would love to take a chance if the price wasn’t exorbitant.

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12. Damn I love baseball… wish I didn’t suck at it so much! Would’ve been happy being a AAA player who got a cup or 2. I mention it’s because I love the back and forth discussions. We don’t have to agree all the time, just respect everyone’s views. I’d say basically everyone does. Love the site, can’t get enough.

    I’m not sure DD is going to make more moves, BUT… I’m leaning towards he will. I think he is fine losing anyone not named Painter, but depends on the player.

    there are a few ways to improve this team, so will see what DD does, but it’s a great year to strike – the NL feels wounded, and the AL is getting stronger. This is a good year to push the chips forward before BAL becomes the team of destiny. They have a good run in them coming up. Just keep Painter, and the Phillies can weather the storm.

    lastly, You gotta believe the improvement in the scouting department & player development is real. If so, the team will replace them .. just like they replaced Sixto, Spencer Howard, Ben Brown, etc … How much more comfortable are you now trading Abel & McGarry vs last year? Same thing could happen to Klassen. They are risks worth taking when you can maximize your chances of winning a WS. No guarantees… and even amongst us… none of us want to be saying “do you remember the mid 90’s” when the Phillies had the best minor league prospects in all of baseball”? Hypothetical obvious they didn’t .. versus … talking about the golden runs of 07-12 and now 22-? … we want championships. Prospects help you get there multiple ways. Enjoy the ride!

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13. The Phillies have repalced Pache with Hayes and Domingez with Estevez…not the time to fret about Klassen or Aldeghari. If either makes it to the big leagues it won’t be until 2026. The team improved and the time to win a world series is now.

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14. See the Mets just DFA’s that old Phillies reliever Jake Diekman. Just could never consistently throw quality strikes.

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    1. Who would have thought that Diekman would have a 13 year career. I also need to start using him for Immaculate Grid.

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       1. Proof that if you are left-handed and can throw hard someone will always take a chance.

          He has been sporadically effective from time to time but can maintain for long stretches.

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          1. *Can not maintain

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          2. Not bad for a guy with ulcerative colitis…. inflammatory bowel disease causing swelling and sores in the digestive tract. His symptoms reached a peak in the 2016-17 MLB offseason. He underwent a total colectomy — a complete removal of the large intestine  I admire him for going thru all of those struggles.

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15. Kopech to the Dodgers as part of a 3 team trade. Cards get Fedde as part of the deal also. Prospects unnamed at this time.

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16. It’s axiomatic that trades are a crap shoot and usually can’t be evaluated with acuity before the passage of time.

    With that, I’m liking and appreciating Dombrowski more and more. I didn’t weigh in on the O’ Hoppe-Marsh and Mead-Sanchez trades at the time they were made but think both deals withstand the test of time. With alternative history, O’ Hoppe remains in Philly but who is to say he develops here in the same way he’s had an opportunity to do in Anaheim?

    Hays at worst is a platoon option in LF. At best he’s back to being an every day outfielder who lengthens the batting order and pushes Marsh into a role in CF. In a worst vase, Marsh and Rojas platoon in CF. In a best case, Marsh hits LHP’s moderately well and Rojas becomes a pinch runner/defensive outfielder. If you have a guy like Rojas in your regular lineup, you lose the value of his glove in late innings if you have to pinch hit for him to generate the lead you’d like his glove to help protect..

    I’ve liked Klassen but understand he’s currently a 2-pitch pitcher which says bullpen arm were he not to expand his arsenal.

    The success of Suarez, the advancement of Sanchez and the prospect of Phillips are development sthat have to factor into how the Phils look at projected starting pitchers in the farm system. I hear Phillips being compared to Jared Eickhoff. Not a bad guy to be compared to.

    Throw in Painter and Abel, who are question marks of different reasons, and you can understand why the Phils — a team not known for developing many high quality starting pitchers — see starting position as pretty well covered for the foreseeable future.

    If Estevez under-performs or does well and the Phils can’t extend him, the balance on this deal could shift in the near term. Apparently he and Hoffman are friends as well as former teammates. Hopefully the Phils can extend both. They’ve subtracyed Seranthony from the payroll.

    Suarez is under arbitration for 2025 and likely won’t log the innings that would put him in line for a huge multiyear extension or make him unaffordable in arbitration.

    The Phils seem to get a boost from the spark that Tyler Phillips has provided. So far the Phils have held on to prospects who might provide a spark as early as next year. So far, Dombrowski has done well. It’s a roster built to win now and if they don’t, I won’t fault Dombrowski.

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17. Braves may yet lose another starter…Reynaldo Lopez is having an MRI on his UCL. They may need starting pitchers.

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    1. i heard Don is throwing bullpen session. In Indiana Maybe be could start.

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       1. Welcome back rocco……you been on the lam?

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       2. Hi Rocco. I almost asked Romus if you were on a tour or maybe boating across the ocean. So glad to see you back. Yeah.

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       3. ROCCO ………. welcome back we have sent search parties out, hired private eyes and were just about to contact the CIA, but Romus said … no, no don’t do that! Glad you are back, lots of controversial stuff, the stuff you love — dig right in.

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    2. Romus. Sometimes it is just one thing after another. Have to give them some credit for staying within range of Phillies. If Phillies had come out quick after All Star there would be a fairly large gap at this time. Think Phillies have lost like 7 or last 10. Reverse that and lead is pretty large.

       Romus. I just saw on MLB Now the Red Sox guy at 3B talking to coach about few feet off of bag. Yankees throw over and tag him out while he is talking. Duh. Who needs the old hidden ball trick anymore when you have baserunners so alert. BTW the Guardian runner on Sunday was about the same running into tag of Bohm. What was he thinking. All Bohm had to do was tag him. Duh2.

       Finally hoping your guy Kopech does not become a star these last two months. Phillies may have to play them.

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       1. Don…Kopech still needs to find the 17 inches……24 walks in 44 innings….and a FIP of 4.8….Dodgers better hope they can turn him around.

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18. Ken Rosenthal:

    “……The price for Estévez, pitching prospects George Klassen and Samuel Aldegheri, is perceived within the industry to be the highest paid for any reliever – and completely on brand for Dave Dombrowski, the Phillies president of baseball operations. Dombrowski chases the best major major leaguers. And if he needs to trade quality prospects to get them, so be it. “Every seller in America wants to deal with Dave,” said one rival executive, who was granted anonymity for his candor. [The Athletic]“

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    1. Romus. Two things. Kopech can be ok if he can have the ump Lively had the other night. Home plate was at least 23 or 24 inches on many instances. I have seen lots better travel and high school umps than him. I saw an ump at high school game a year ago who I felt only missed one pitch in the game. I sat right behind home plate at the screen. Perfect view. I was so impressed I went up and told him how great a job he did. It was an away game and home team won but not because of him.

       I saw somewhere along those lines that felt Phillies overpaid for Estevez. I have never seen him pitch so I am no one to comment if it is good or not for Phillies. He is having a good year. In the same article maybe by Rosenthal that Phillies wanted Arozorena but Rays price was too steep. Apparently more for Phillies than maybe Mariners. I do not know that to be true.

       Nice to be anonymous. Have some guts exec. LOL.

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    2. Not exactly a big surprise. Glad to see an independent observer feels the same way.

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       1. Yup, DD is really good at some things, but not everything. As a general rule, he overpays free agents and he overpays in critical trades. He is a good general manager and an excellent roster builder. But he does some painful things too, so when people compare him to Howie Roseman, I cringe. Howie does a lot of deals too, but Howie is always focused on maximizing value. DD, not so much.

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19. 24 hours, counting down ………….. are we done? ………. is there more to go?

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20. Romus. Just as the game is to start we have a storm here so no Direct TV working at the moment. But here is what they said just before no tv. They said this is the 7th time in team history that the Phillies have had the best record in baseball this late in the season. Then Matty V goes that the Philles did not go to the WS in any of the previous 6. I am taking a guess that 2011 was one of those times. Let’s hope this changes this year.

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21. Well, Judge does what he does. And since the Phillies have given up a run, that means we’ve lost this game. Oh well.

    I really hope this is a joke and not prophetic…

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    1. Cannot for the life of me understand what JTR was doing…..Judge is hot…batter on deck Wells is hitting .240….why not all high FBs, inside zone to Judge. If he swing s great he cannot barrel anything there…if he walks so be it…already two outs.

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       1. JT was set up for the low-and-away corner. Sweeper just didn’t sweep.

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          1. Still should have not been anything where a 6’7″ guy can stretch his arms and barrel the ball…high heat is what I would have called for.

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             1. Low-and-away is by far the best way to get him out. Something like 74% of his whiffs are low-and-away. And the idea is that you miss, you miss low and/or away, which he can’t do anything with. Whereas balls at the top of the zone have the chance of being mis-located and end up in his wheelhouse… which is pretty much anything over the plate.

                It was a good call. Sometimes a pitcher just doesn’t execute. Even ones as good as Wheeler.

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                1. Agree to disagree….high heat will get most batters most times.

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                2. @Romus

                   Even if high heat theoretically would have been the better call, it’s still not on JT. Wheeler didn’t throw what JT called, and it’s what Wheeler threw that got crushed. If he had hit the spot and the ball still went 450 feet, then it’s on JT.

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                3. Understand that Wheeler did not locate the pitch called for by JT……I’d however prefer he threw his 97 mph 4Smr up. Anyway, as it may have happened, it just wasn’t Wheeler’s nite as we saw what transpired after the first inning.

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             2. Romus. I tend to agree with your high heat pitch. In most cases the pitch that is hardest to hit is the high fastball around shoulder high. It is not a strike, but it is really difficult for a hitter to lay off. I did not see the first home run. Till highlight. Judge is a very disciplined hitter, so he most likely does not chase those pitches that are not strikes like some of our guys do. Here is something that has drove me crazy for many years on the kid level. I would wager to bet that two thirds of the base hit’s grandkid have given up over the years are to the 7-to end of order hitters. Sometimes up to 12 kids may bat. He gets two strikes and then the coach sitting on the bucket outside the dugout calls for an off-speed pitch to a kid who cannot hit the fastball. I have watched that year after year after year. Grandkid response. I throw what they call.

                Let’s look at the positive from last night. I turned it off at 7-2 and watched some others for a while. Braves lost. Yankees scored 9 more runs than they needed. Maybe they used up their allotment like Phillies did in the 8-0 game. Guessing the BP did not do well. To me that is one of the biggest issues. Teams are scoring on the Phillies BP guys and Phillies rarely score on opponents BP guys.

                My 4-2 homestand is out the window. Hoping it is not 1-5.

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22. Wheeler serving up gopher balls, has the appearance early of a homerun contest, huh? He’ll be out of the contest early.

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23. Not a good start. I was surprised when Verducci said JT is only 3 or 39 on pitches over 95. Now 3-40.

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24. Anyone notice Wheeler grasping his lower back?

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25. Only felt he just did not have a good off-speed stuff tonight. Seemed to be the ones hit the hardest. Verducci saying he thinks Phillies will add another right-handed BP guy. Who would that be? Maybe the set-up guy for A’s.

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    1. Judging by the way the ball is flying out we should have the Yankees bats checked to see if they’ve been singed.

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26. Where is Romus and the bonfire when you need him. I just learned something I did not know. I have been watching game on MLB. I just switched to Extra Innings to see other games and see Phillies on it as well. I did not know both would have it.

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27. There’s not a simple trade to fix what’s ailing. Save the top prospects. I’m more excited for them than what remains on the market.

    The Rangers appear to have thrown in the towel. Kirby Yates anyone?

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28. In my opinion, Marsh and Hays should be platooning in left field. Rojas should be in center and bat ninth.

    I love Marsh, I think he’s really valuable. Just not against lefties. Hays . . . I dunno, but might be more valuable in a platoon, doesn’t seem like a first-division regular.

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    1. I’d like to give Hays a trial longer than 3 days.

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    2. Rojas is the worst player ever. He’s an F. He can’t hit at all. I’d rather have marsh in center Hayes in left. Rojas is overmatched. Idc that he will get to maybe 1 ball in a playoff series that marsh wouldn’t get to. Maybe 2 balls but he will make a bad play himself out there too…so 1 ball in a series is really what it comes down too….not worth an automatic out. He should be DFA before he makes a playoff roster….he has shown zero improvement. He stinks move on

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29. I actually like the Marsh in CF and Hayes in LF LU for the remainder of the season with some of Rojas mixed in.

    Even though Marsh is not more than adequate out there his offensive out weighs that for me.

    I’m going to the game tonight so hopefully Nola is on and Cole is off…

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    1. Well Cole has been off all year, so it doesn’t bode well for us.

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30. Anyone tense a big trade is coming?

    Having to part with a top prospect…. Feels a little too quiet.

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    1. I’m certain a big trade is coming. I just don’t think it’s from us. I feel like the rest of our top 5 prospects are safe for the rest of the season.

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31. In a crazy world supposing DD trades Soto given the crazy market for relievers and resupplies with other relievers with shorter “rental” contracts ? Just say’in..

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32. DD is going to do something….

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    1. Everyday guys in the lineup just have to start playing better or it is not going to matter. Many if not all of those guys are going nowhere. They must play better both offensively and defensively.

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33. Tac. Verducci said last night he believed Phillies would land another right-handed BP guy. I am not sure who all fall in that category. He said they want strike throwers. Phillies BP guys have been walking too many batters late in game. I am not sure who fits that description. Guess Finnegan of Nats is still available. I wondered if they might try for the setup guy for the A’s. Guess it really could be anyone. All the BP guys on other teams right now seem able to get the Phillies batters out. That is one of my biggest concerns going forward.

    RU. No idea on your Soto thought. Guess it is possible since he moved Seranthony. I have felt they were the two most inconsistent. Kerkering is starting to fall in that category. But he is young. The other two have had lots of chances.

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    1. I hear it … I’d wonder if they could trade Walker to lessen the prospects given up to trade for a SP?

       Will see. Would you trade Painter for Skubal?

       Skubal is 27… that might be one to do. Use Walker to bring in prospects.

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       1. “Use Walker to bring in prospects.”

          Uh, yeah, we would need to send prospects to someone else to get them to take Walker and, even then, we might have to pay a good chunk of his salary. With his contract Walker has negative value. Seriously.

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          1. This is why the Phillies should be very cautious about trading young potential starters for relief pitcher rentals. So they don’t have to go out and overpay for a Walker and be stuck with his contract. I don’t look at #4/5 starters as interchangeable. A 25 year old #4/5 is so much more valuable than a 34 year old #4/5 because of his cheap contract for many years.

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          2. Normally, I’d agree with you 100%. But look at what the Jays just got for Kikuchi. If the Phils want to get out from under Walker’s contract without eating money, now is the perfect time apparently.

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          3. Watching Eflin pitch for the Os…..boy he would be a great 5th in the rotation now…..cannot remember all the details why the Phillies did not resign other than the fact they were still concerned about his knee health going forward.

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          4. Catch … Id say in this trade market… you got a good shot. Minimal arms are available for reasonable price. Just about halfway through his deal. It’s still not too bad imo.

             Trade a few years of Painter’s upside & control. Get Skubal, to be the future painter NOW, and trade Walker to get a few prospects (not Top notch – middling to lower Top 30 guys that can be developed) and I’d really have to think about it. If you can sign Skubal…it comes even crazier … because then you could think about trading Ranger in the offseason. A few different ways to look at the puzzle pieces. Not sold on what I’d do… but I’d at least how to really look at this one if Painter was enough to get it done as the headliner.

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       2. Tac. I would make that trade. I have seen Skubal several times. He is really good. Painter, I have never seen. He may be great. He may not. I always remember back in the day much of the same was said of Drabek’s kid. He was never great. He was in one of the trades for either Lee or Doc. Think he was in the Doc trade. Doc turned out to be pretty good. Phillies should have won a WS with him here. Just my opinion.

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          1. You’d have:

             Wheeler, Skubal, Nola, Ranger, and Sanchez .. with the bullpen … and likely to skip the 1st round…

             That is a GUANLET …even with out Ranger.

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             1. The old Dave D. may have done that trade……now, not so sure.

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                1. Romus. Have some guts. Make the trade. LOL I would not even think twice on that one. I am a conservative person.

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                2. yeah, this is the trade we all would have expected a few years ago from him. Will see. The trade seems like a good balance between win now and save for the future + hedging the bet that Painter’s Injury heals to the alllow him to reach his one Ceiling…

                   Will now in a roughly 4-5hrs.

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             2. Tac. I am big on knowing what you have. Skubal is really good. You said he is 27. So hopefully several more really good years. I have not seen Painter as I stated. He may be the next Skenes. He may not be. Doc and Kyle Drabek are the best comp I can think of off the top of my head. I think Philles were really high on Drabek. But Doc was a known commodity who did not disappoint. I had not thought about a trade like that. I do not want Crotchet. He is not my kind of guy regardless of how good He thinks he is. Heyman said he is only making $800,000. Like till now he has only pitched like a very few innings till this season. I would let him rot at Chicago on those 40-win teams. I like the idea of moving Walker for some young guys if anyone would take him. I am sure Phillies have to pay some of salary. I am fine with Soto finding a new home. He has been a major disappointment to me. My grandson is a Tiger’s fan and he said he would be really good for Phillies. Missed on that one.

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                1. Drabek was a way more volatile prospect and at the height of his value. Painter has slightly higher potential than he did, but a much higher floor (assuming health). And his value is down due to TJ at the moment.

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                2. Dan. I am watching MLB trade deadline show. It sounds like there may be lots of guys on these teams moved. Saying if Blue Jays decide to blow up things they could move 5 guys. 3 pitchers and Bichette and Vlad.

                   I am sure difference between Painter and Drabek. I am sure Painter throws harder just sign of the times. But I would take Skubal for Painter today. Maybe 3 years from now I would regret. But maybe I have a WS banner hanging at CBP. Skubal can win two games in a series.

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                3. @Don, Painter for Skubal straight up I would do. But it would take a LOT more than just Painter. And at that point I’d rather gamble on Painter’s ridiculous upside.

                   My main point is that we’d be selling low on Painter whereas we sold high on Drabek.

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                4. You cannot compare Painter with Drabek as prospects. Painter is a much, much better prospect than Drabek ever was. Painter is our best pitching prospect since Cole Hamels. Painter’s ceiling (seriously) is the HOF. I am not saying he’ll make it, but that’s his ceiling. He’s a once-in-a-generation pitching prospect.

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             3. If I put on my Dave D ’90s hat…it would be Painter, Johan Rojas and S. Caba, for Skubal and a reunion with Vierling.

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                1. Romus. I would do that. Plesac mentioning not to be totally surprised if Phillies are not in on Crotchet. Thinks they could manage his innings and have him ready for post season. I would rather have Skubal. Sox GM saying Crotchet likely traded and Robert most likely not. Who knows it might be just opposite. BTW I saw Vierling playing 3B the other day in a game. Did not realize he can do both.

                   Phillips thinks Crotchet fits with Dodgers best. Said he would not walk in locker room with Kershaw, Freeman, and Betts making those demands.

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                2. Don…Vierling is a very nice player…versatile and can hit with some pop…..and a South Bend Irishman.

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          2. Drabek was in the Doc trade. And he was highly regarded, but not in the same class as Painter. For one thing, he was our second best prospect (behind Dom), but it was a weak farm system. But he was also further away from his potential at the time of the trade, whereas Painter before surgery was already knocking on the door. If Painter never progresses anymore from where he was pre-surgery, he’ll still be a MLB caliber pitcher (assuming he comes back healthy and is the same pitcher). Drabek had the potential to be a 1-2, but he hadn’t actualized that potential and still had a floor of AAAA pitcher. So Painter has slightly higher upside, but WAY higher floor than Drabek had.

             The more important part, though, is that the Phils sold high on Drabek. If they trade Painter, it’s at his lowest point value wise. It’s possible he could keep going down, but in my opinion this one is a gamble worth taking. Let him come back and show he’s the same pitcher. Then make a decision. His current value wouldn’t get us Skubal straight up, so I’d rather keep all that talent in-house and bet on the tremendous potential we saw firsthand.

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34. Coming up on HI Noon ………… 6 hours to go …….. will there be joy in Midville …… or will Casey have struck out ……. maybe a bunt or seeing eye single, huh……… we will see!

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    1. You are too funny. There are no bunts in baseball anymore. Plus, according to Jennifer Garner on ad no crying in baseball either. Time to such it up. LOL

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35. so I think in the final six hours, there’s two dynamics at work. The first is for the big guys Robert Jr., crochet, Vlad; Don’t see the Tigers movement Skubal, unless the package would be overwhelming and it would take a lot more than Andrew painter to get him. I don’t see the Phillies involved with any of that stuff. The second is for the relief pitcher market. I think DD would like to get another reliever, but the market is gonna have to come down and flip a little bit to the buyers market. If DD can get another bullpen arm without having to give anybody in the top 6-7 prospects, I could see him doing it, otherwise I think we’re done.

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36. Just throwing it out there…. would we do a Snell for Walker and Painter deal?

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    1. NO!

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       1. What if the Giants added LHP reliever Taylor Rogers to the package, and  all the un-opened coconut jars that Gabe Kapler left in the locker room. Is that a mind changer!

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    2. Pass, especially since you could’ve had him in the offseason. That would be pretty maddening. To give up Painter’s upside to dump Walker’s salary. I mentioned Skubal, because he has 2 years of control plus this year… He’s having a CY season. Snell did last year, but he workings a high pitch count by the 5th inning. At least last year he did. Skubal is one of the few I’d give up for Painter for.

       Painter, Crawford, and Caba … if that could get Roberts & Croctchet… I’d have to think about that one too.

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37. They just had Rueben on the deadline show. He feels Phillies will make some moves. Not necessarily a major one. But he did say the same as I have mentioned a couple times. If the Big guys do not start playing better, it makes no difference who they might add. This team is going to go as far as Schwarber, Turner, Harper, JT, Bohm take them. Plus, the starters. Then hope Marsh, Stott, Hays can contribute as well.

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    1. It’s killing me Don… i can see it going a few ways. Personally I think the team is just in the dog days … all the top teams are basically .500 the last 25 games of the season. I expect them to get it back into to gear shortly.

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       1. Tac. Good point on just being dog days or slump. Guardians and Yankees have been off lately but seems Phillies are helping them recover. Hoping the Phillies can find what they had for the most of the first half of season. The problem I see with this team at least of late is they seem to be an all or nothing team. I would like to see guys getting back to some doubles and manufacture some runs. No team is going to play great all season. Just too long.

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38. oldruff. Less than 3 hours left. The shadows are starting to form on the eastern side of the horizon. Things will get pretty Helter skelter now.

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39. Royals getting Erceg from A’s. He was one of guys I thought might be sought by Phillies. He looked good when they were in Philly.

    Heyman saying now unlikely Crotchet is traded today. Same for someone who mentioned Snell. But things can always change in a couple hours.

    Most do not think Skubal is on the market. Some do not think Fairbanks gets moved. Some think he may. Sounds like Marlins and Rays are going to have to have a meet and greet in the clubhouse to learn all their new teammates.

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40. Cole scratched from start tonight.

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41. Looks like the Orioles are getting serious…they really improved their starting staff now with both Trevor Rogers and Zach Eflin. Rogers has turned things around these last this month.

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42. Padres getting Scott

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43. Here is one for those of you who covet the prospects. Dan O’Dowd just showed a chart of trades from 2013 thru 2023. 653 prospects traded. Only 23 have become impact major league players. Also said Padres have traded 9 of their last 10 top draft picks. Guys saying it looks like Pads getting ready for a rematch with Phillies.

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    1. Yeah, I would argue that the Padres are a model of how NOT to finish a rebuild. They’ve built a team twice where they sold off too many pieces at the end and then never got over the hump. Not a fan of how the Padres conduct their business.

       But the Orioles . . . damn, it really looks like they know what they’re doing. We’ll see.

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       1. I wonder what O’Dowd means when he says “prospects”? Does he mean the Andrew Painter / Aidan Millers of the world? Or does he also include guys like Rodolfo Castro? Would be nice to see the breakdown of this stat.

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          1. If he’s got 653 players as prospects over 10 years, then it’s absolutely a case of, “anyone in the minors who changes organizations.”

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             1. I’ll bet money, that’s exactly what it is. All minor leaguers who changed organizations. It’s a pretty flawed methodology.

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                1. This is not his. It is a chart made by someone who made this. I missed who and what it is called. But the point was that from 2013 till 2023 there were 653 prospects included in these deadline deals. I think he is only talking deadline. Out of the total number only 23 have become impact major league guys. I am not sure but seems a Painter or Miller kind of player would be of the 23 guys who have become impactful guys. They did not mention any of those 23 guys.

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                2. Since BA and MLB.com, or even Fangraphs for that matter, rank prospects, they could have put in the ranking of the prospect at the trade…..they list them now….so far of all the trades, Padres Dylan Lesko, RHP could be one of the few top tier prospects to get moved. I mean Klassen and Aldgheri were not Phillies top tier prospects, or even BA/MLB.com top 150 I’d think.

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          2. Basically anyone in the minor leagues whom is traded for a major leaguer is a prospect. Prospect means the tools to have a legitimate chance to play MLB. Certainly some are better than others. But no one is trading a MLB player for an org filler. Everyone traded has at least one MLB level tool.

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       2. Catch. It is funny. The MLB guys Reynolds, Verducci, and O’Dowd are applauding Padres. But they think the O’s are trying to thread the needle. But still an hour to go.

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          1. I learned long ago that whenever a team makes a trade to acquire a strong major league player, the talking heads will essentially always praise the trade regardless of who the team gives up. There’s a reason they are talking heads and are not (or are no longer) running a franchise.

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    2. The ratio of past Phillies prospects traded that turn out to be “impact major league players” is far lower than that. Fans way over value prospects. the gap between AAA and the Majors is the largest leap in any professional sport imo. The jump between AAA and the Majors is far more significant than the jump between college basketball and NBA or college football and NFL. GMs get this. Fans don’t

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44. I always find these trades interesting, especially when a team dramatically overpays as the Phillies likely did for Estevez. When James ran the site we would have these discussions where he would say that a trade would never happen because a team was going to give up a way too much value. My response was that it could easily happen because owners are desperate to win championships and GMs like making moves that save their jobs. They key is to find a trade partner like DD who will dramatically overpay to get the guy they want and who is completely backed by the owner (which he is). No matter the metrics, human nature does not change and, so the overpays will continue.

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    1. AND . . . . the three wild cards have changed the supply and demand curve. More teams in the hunt for the playoffs means more teams with trade needs and fewer teams out of it and dealing players. The demand is higher than ever and the supply is lower than ever. And so people have to overpay to get the guy they want.

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       1. Primary reason, for the commissioner, to extend the deadline another two weeks in the future. You would think they would have envision what would have occurred when adding more play-off teams to the play-off mix.

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45. Padres just traded their #2 prospect (44th overall in MLB), #4, #5 and #24 for Tanner Scott as a rental.

    DD made a great deal for Estevez.

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    1. I agree, 100% with your take V1 massive overpay by the Padres for a guy who’s gonna walk in another couple months.

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    2. MLB guys are really high on the Phillies getting Estevez.

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46. Romus. I am not sure who made the list. One thing to me is that some of these guys would be lower level at trade deadline and maybe have not made it all the way up the level yet.

    One thing I do agree with them is Orioles probably are lacking some for playoffs though they really have good team. Not sure Eflin and Rogers are guys who can win a playoff game. More important and we all know this one. Seranthony and Kimbrel are the 8th and 9th inning guys for O’s. That did not turn out well for Phillies.

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    1. Actually I’d love to meet up with the Orioles in the WS and see SerAnthony and Kimbrel in the 8th and 9th.

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       1. That would be nice.

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    2. Don….there have been players traded not even on a teams top 30…..except for the Padres , most team will only trade 3 maybe 4 off their top 30 and rarely anyone in their top 5.

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    3. Don…hold that thought …Skubal could be an Oriole before 6PM

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47. Dang…..AJ Preller depleting his top prospects…Snelling, and a few others, going to the Marlins for Scott. I think Preller has earned the title of the Trader King.

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    1. I don’t have a problem trading prospects for an elite MLB player, however, I think that this deal is particularly stupid. The Padres are not a closer away from winning a world series. So to trade all of those top prospects for a rental closer makes no sense to me.

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       1. Agreed……not sure what he thinks come July….wonder how the Padres fan base reacts.

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48. Romus. Phillies get Tanner Banks from White Sox. O’Doyd likes Phillies move. Says he throws hard.

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    1. Long time minor leaguer…..LHP with heat….and does have better control than a Soto or Alvarado

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       1. Bergola is the cost

          https://x.com/MLBPipeline/status/1818407330762932648

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    2. Goodbye Bergolla

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49. Crotchet not being traded

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50. Flaherty to Dodgers.

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51. We just traded Bergolla for Tanner Banks? Seriously?

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    1. seriously

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    2. Seriously

       https://x.com/jaysonst/status/1818404938034368908

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       1. LHP Pen arms…Strahm, Alvarado, Banks, and Soto….Dombrowski getting set for the play-off run.

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          1. Scratch Soto…now an Oriole

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52. I like the Estevez trade, although I admit that what we sent to LAA kind of stings. Chalk it up to the price of doing business or the possible failures of certain relief pitchers from stepping up and seizing the moment(Soto, SerAnthony).
    I don’t like the Hays trade. I understand that we didn’t have to send back that much but Hays just adds one more undisciplined hitter to our lineup. Something that DD seemed to be annoyed with after the loss to Arizona in NLCS.
    I don’t understand this final transaction either. Someone smarter than me hopefully can set me straight but a top 10 prospect for JAG?

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    1. Its probably better you are a Phillies fan than a Padres fan.

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       1. It’s been a rough 55 years but tru, better than a Padres fan.

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53. looks like we just traded Soto now…

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54. Seth johnson also????

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    1. I just hope we didn’t ship out Caba for Johnson.

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       1. Bergola.

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          1. my bad

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          2. Bergolla was for Banks. Supposedly we just acquired some AAA pitcher from Baltimore. Also heard something about Soto being dealt somewhere. If true, that’s the best news for me at the deadline.

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             1. The Vierling trade turned out to be a bad one. Vierling is a capable major league outfielder. A 4th OF at worst. He could have received a lot of ABs with the Phillies in LF and CF. Maybe not an everyday player on a top team but quite valuable and more so than Soto/Clemens.

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             2. Looks like the O’s have the 2023 BP

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55. Well, as last call came around, I noted.

    It’s crying time again …….. I can see that far away look in your eye ……. like the cowboy at the poker table said …. “you seen the cards, now you play em”!

    We lost a couple fillys, gained work stock, removed some culls and reduced a head for another work stock. On the surface nothing ventured nothing gained …….. let’s go to the rodeo finals!

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56. this is all setting up nicely to sign Juan Soto this winter

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    1. according to Ben Davis, who spoke on WIP this morning, Juan Soto isn’t exactly a popular guy in the Phillies clubhouse; well, such was the case last year, at least.

       Maybe things have changed

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    2. Soto is not coming here, he’s going to get close to Judge money.

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       1. Where do you think he’ll end up?

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          1. Yankees, Mets, Rangers. It likely won’t happen, but the Royals should sign him and pair him with Bobby Witt Jr.

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       2. Middleton was prepared to give $325M to a Japanese pitcher who had proved nothing at the mlb level. That would have easily put us into the upper luxury tax level. Middleton will spend the money on a generational talent. Soto is the type of guy to splurge on. Our pitching staff is set for the next 3 years. We have not committed to 2/3 of our outfield and Soto would be more than fine to play LF.

          It’s going to happen.

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57. MLB guys really high on the Padres. Say only playing 6 inning games now with basically 3 closers. Really down on Orioles with their BP. So, they added Soto also to go with Kimbrel and Seranthony. My wife just brought groceries. They were also baffled with what Giants are doing. Sending out some but bringing some in. They are feeling sorry for White Sox. Crotchet messes up his trade. Robert gets hurt too much. Plus, they only draft no higher than 10th. O’Dowd did not like Tigers keeping Skubal. Seemed like half of the Marlins of the team got traded. Guys seemed to be pleased with what Phillies did. All the guys really like Estevez as the Phillies closer. I have never seen him pitch.

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58. Soto was for Seth johnson and Moises chace, according to zolecki

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59. Some Orioles fan was questioning why the Phillies would trade Soto…

    LOL … you going to find out …

    Who was worse … Mitch Williams or Soto? My god it was waaaaay to close

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60. I mentioned a few weeks back even when the team was playing well that Soto and Dominquez were major disappointments to me. Apparently, they were to DD as well.

    Tac. I agree they are going to find out on both Soto and Dominguez. They are already aware of Kimbrel. Believe he has several blown saves already. Phillies learned about those in NLCS a year ago.

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    1. Don – I think Dominguez can definitely get his form back. He’s a bit of headcase …but expect him to ramp up. the other two..total crapshoot. Kimbrel is tough because he can do it for 75% of the season and then he’s done + schwarber could steal off him. Soto… dude worried me every pitch

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61. Tanner Banks is under control for 4 more years at a cheap rate, way cheaper than Gregory Soto. Banks is more of a lefty specialist right now.

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62. MLB Tonight guys feel the Phillies may have had best trade deadline deals. Feel they were able to move 3 players who were not helping and upgrade with 3 guys who should be much better. They really like Estevez. Feel Banks is the lefty specialist that they need. Also feel that Hays is a much better fit for Phillies than Pache was. Final point was this should make the Phillies the team with the fewest weaknesses of any team in the NL and the favorite to go to the WS. One thing I would add is Alvarado needs to regain his dominance he showed earlier.

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    1. Shedding the Soto and Dominguez salaries one hopes will make it more possible to put resources into extending Hoffman and Estevez.With Strahm and Alvarado, that would make 4 hefty pen contracts. Can’t do more.Signing Hoffman and Estevez would seal the deal for me on a successful trade deadline showing. Now it’s up to the team, principally the guys they already had.

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63. Love the Soto trade.

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    1. I like all of the reliever deals. They moved 2 bullpen arms with erratic control for 2 guys with much better control.

       Nothing more annoying than relievers coming into the game throwing the ball everywhere.

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    2. catch. Seeing an article on Seth Johnson. Saying he has done well this season at Double A. Felt he probably stays at Double A rest of year but may get a taste of Triple A. Feel he may have a chance for MLB sometime next season.

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64. FWIW Orioles fans loved Hays. Mark my words: he will play a major role in our postseason run by securing consistent offensive production from the outfield. His career splits are not dramatic vs RHP (it’s just this season), and I believe DD is banking on his hitting vs RHP regressing to his career baseline. It reminds me a bit of getting Tad Iguchi at the ’07 deadline — Just an under the radar 1-3 WAR ball player who is going to supply a ton of needed, unquantifiable juice.

    I had no problems with any of the trades. In order to get good players you have to give good prospects. We capitalized on Klassen’s ascension this season and sold high, this is a guy who couldn’t throw strikes most of his life. Sure he can keep ascending, but prospects are as volatile as cryptocurrencies — I mean just look at Mick Abel a year ago at this time he was a top 50-100 guy.

    Selling Bergolla may simply be an indictment of how good Miller and Caba are. Is Bergolla a good prospect? Sure. But is he Top 20 in Keith Law’s midseason list good like Miller? Is he a crown jewel 23% BB%/80 defense/70 speed prospect like Caba? I don’t think so.

    It’s worth being repeated again and again. Jim thanks for all that you do with this forum. This has been for a long time the most articulate corner of Phillies discussion on the internet. Excited to hear more about the new draftees. I especially love when everybody draws conclusions on players careers before they register a professional stat.

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65. Is this 3 BS in a row that would have been W’s for Nola?

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    1. Yes. But he gave up a run, and the post-AS Phils can’t win without a shutout, so that’s on him. He should have known better than to not throw a CGSO.

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66. Could have been. Phillies BPs are just killing everything with walks. Different face same result.

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67. Bullpen just refuses to throw strikes right now. It’s painful to watch for sure.

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68. T Mac just said this is the 5th game since July 19th that they have blown a 3 or more run lead. Biggest thing I have seen is they cannot score any runs against the opponents BP and Phillies BP giving up plenty. Sad. Yes, 3up walks are just doing them in.

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69. Team takes a lot of bad situational at-bats and Weston Wilson isn’t an option off the bench now that they have Hays. Need to bring Clemens back up to replace him.

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    1. I think this is a great point, Clemens makes sense.

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70. For what it’s worth, this site things that we crushed Baltimore in the Soto deal

    https://x.com/BaseballValues/status/1818424278389563881

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    1. I’m not saying these two guys effectively replace Aldegheri and Klassen, but they are both interesting and good arms with a lot of upside. This was a very good rebuild the system kind of move which is also going to save money. I loved it.

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71. Which Hall of Famers changed teams before arriving in the big leagues? I can think of Roberto Clemente, who initially signed with the Dodgers.

    Who cares? To me it’s the counterargument to those who point to the touted prospects — Phillies’ prospects like Drabek, Brown, — who never made it.

    Did teams come calling for a Sandy Koufax who notably struggled with control in the minors and in his early big league career? History doesn’t tell us but the Dodgers saw something worth retaining.

    If there is a consistent story line running through the biographies of the great majority of guys in Cooperstown, it is that the teams who first signed them recognized something that made them worth keeping.(Some Hall of Famers, e.g. Ferguson Jenkins, were traded once they arrived in the majors or changed teams through free agency but I’m not considering them here.).

    What’s the point? I’d say it is to follow the example set by the immortals and the teams that signed and developed them. Few prospects have their ticket punched to Cooperstown but don’t swap out greatness if you think you have it to satisfy today’s need.

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    1. Ryne Sandberg was another HoF who changed teams before getting the full shot in the majors. Beside Fergie J, that is just the Phillies , there have been others form other teams that were traded and then became HoFers….Cepeda from the Cards for Ray Sadecki as example…it does happen, just not often however.

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       1. Romus. John Smoltz would be another. He was a throw in back in the day in the Doyle Alexander trade between Tigers and Braves. I have no idea the actual number, but I would guess there are more than we think.

          Phillies are 4-10 in last 14. 7-10 if you go back to Dodger series. That is not going to cut it. Five of the 10 losses were after having leads of at least 3 runs or more. No one is hitting on a consistent basis. Turner was red hot and now ice cold. RBI last night was only 2nd in July for Bohm. Strahm must have thought he was replacing Soto. I thought at the time I would have switched Strahm and Alvarado. If Nola could have made it through the 6th, I think we would have seen Alvarado. It may have been the same result but think he was a better matchup to those 3 guys. Chisholm may be on one of those honeymoon trips now with Yankees but disappointing in the fact that the Phillies have faced him MANY times prior to the last two games. Rooker on the A’s maybe they have never faced so more acceptable. Just my take.

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          1. Seems it is just the Phillies turn to slump……Yankees went thru it, Os have gone thru it, Cleve also has a mini-slump that they just experienced, Braves and Mets rotate slumps it seems, Dodgers are .500 in July, Mariners are 9-13 in July so the Phillies have to weather the storm.

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             1. Romus. I hope you are correct. I just looked at wins today. Several of those teams you mention have or are almost near Phillies now. Cleveland has 65. Baltimore 64. NYY 64. LA 63. Mil 61. Mariners simply have not had the hitters. They may be better now. Braves and Mets have just kind of teetered back and forth as you say. Phillies do not want this to go on for another couple weeks and you said after today they have a 11-game west coast trip. Hoping the storm clouds dissipate soon.

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       2. Sandberg, Jenkins, Cepeda and Smoltz are not examples of what I’m talking about. Because this board and so many others debate the value of prospects with no major league experience as trade chips, I’ve tried unsuccessfully to find a list of players who reached baseball’s Valhalla who were given up by their signing team without even a cup of coffee in the big leagues, as Sandberg had in Philly. Still looking …as I challenged (in a friendly way) experts here

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          1. Fighterflea – one answer is Jeff Bagwell. Traded by Boston for Phillies announcer Larry Anderson. Never played one game for Boston.

             I think Don53 is also right with John Smoltz – traded by Tigers for Doyle Alexander – never pitched an inning for Tigers.

             George Kell was signed by the Brooklyn Dodgers, but released a year later – signed by the Phila A’s, played a few games for them and was traded to Tigers. So maybe doesn’t count.

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    2. And you know the main reason why it doesn’t happen? It doesn’t happen because most future Hall of Famers are elite prospects and teams hold onto them for dear life. It’s not an accident that deals don’t typically include minor leaguers who later become Hall of Famers – those players are typically untouchable in trade deals.

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       1. we agree it’s not common. Kell, Smoltz and Bagwell (and Clemente) fit the criterion I laid out. Kudos to those who put them forward. They are the extreme outliers.

          they were guys valued more by another organization than the one that scouted and signed them.

          Next level stardom — greatness leading to immortality — comes to light only over time. It’s the fast risers outcompeting at each minor league level.

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72. Traffic last night getting to the game from Bucks County was horrendous. Never experienced anything like it. And never had a problem finding parking like we did. Granted we should have left well before 5 PM.

    Anyway first time we sat in 137. Kind of a cool view of everything except the Hays HR off the bat looked like a routine fly ball to LF. Not sure what it looked like on TV. It was high I know that.

    Add Chisolm to the list of Phillies killers and our complete lack of situational hitting. We also marveled at the fact that the Yankees didn’t have a single lefty in the BP and they still man handled our lefty batters.

    Soto I hate him. Not even because he’s on another team. I wouldn’t want him but hands down maybe the best pure hitter in the MLB right now.

    Lastly I’ve been to Mets games before at the Bank and I thought Mets fans were over the top annoying but last night was the worst fan experience I’ve ever had in our own park.

    Embarrassing…

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    1. I live in the city now but am originally from bucks county and my family is still there. Unless i am getting to the game hours early for a tailgate, im just driving to fern rock and taking the subway there and back. Saves so much hassle.

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    2. DMAR….many of those New York fans are actually from the northern Jersey counties, from Mercer north and east……parking lot is full of Jersey tags……but agree, still annoying.

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73. I am very pleased with the current Phil’s front office, but then I read a comment like I believe came from jp19 about needing a catcher in the future and see what appears to be a lack of resources to that position both in the draft and trades for several years

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    1. Marchan will do just well.

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       1. And then Tait. Tait is extremely risky due to his age but there is a non-zero chance hes the best position player prospect in the system.

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          1. He looks like it but for me still too young and at such a low level I can’t anoint him that honor yet. Crawford is that for me at the moment.

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          2. And Perez also seems like a good prospect IMO, but, is it enough to give a sense of confidence in the catching position for the future, that the team won’t lose other options to shore it up?

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             1. If you have faith in our FO then there’s genuinely no reason to be worried about one specific position. Even if we don’t end up having JT’s heir in the system, teams simply do not develop their entire roster. All we need to do is have a strong enough system to trade for what we need and/or be willing to spend in FA. Both of which the Phils have been doing.

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             2. Perez…has to prove himself…not necessarily on the field between the lines, but in other ways.

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74. And say all you want about the Padres but in the playoffs Bullpens rule so if you are facing them you better get on and thump their starters early.

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    1. dmar. I agree. I know he gave away the farm, but you are correct the shorter you can make the game the more pressure you put on your opponent. Seems they have 3 pretty good ones at the moment. The way it is now the window to win can change from year to year. The thing that amazes me is it seems the Phillies never score on the other teams BP guys. Had trouble last night starting with the runner on 2nd. Most likely do not score but for the 2 wild pitches.

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75. I genuinely don’t get it. DD revamps the bullpen, ships out the two inconsistent guys that Thomson inexplicably would bring in with men on, and then Thomson decides that JOSE RUIZ is the answer now?

    Is he genuinely trying to lose games? Is he secretly still on the Yankees payroll? Is this his revenge for his buddy Girardi?

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    1. Concerning the Yankees…..I remember one of their managers ….maybe Billy Martin….when his team was in an extended slump……he put all 8 position players names in a hat, and let the batboy draw them out one by one for the game lineup…….not sure it worked but did make for good journalism.

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       1. Yeah, I remember that,…… I think what bothers me about this series is the “indifference” that we displayed to losing and the seriousness and confidence that the Yankees displayed to winning.

          Out of the Horses Mouth, the superstars have to show up. The one who said it, .115 avg. after the break 1 — 30.

          With the way we squander RISP I question batting Rojas and Stubbs back to back and really question actually if we can afford the luxury of having both of them on the team.

          Well, off to the west coast, I think we need an attitude adjustment and a roster adjustment as well.

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          1. Skeet….well now they know they are not as great as they may have thought they were when they had the best record in the majors…it is good to get humbled and humiliated at times. Some may now be experiencing that fear of failure.. Sometimes that is a motivating force..

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    2. Dan. I thought the same thing. Kruk even thought that last night when he had Hoffman and Ruis warming up. Felt it was a high leverage time then down a run late. Phillies had the momentum today. Last night he did the same when Yankees had the momentum after the Chisholm home run. How do you let a guy hit 4 HRs against you in two days that you have seen so many times. Kruk was even yelling at the screen the guy can hit high fastballs. But Phillies kept throwing them.

       This may just be me. I had never seen Estevez till last night. But the talking heads seemed to think he will be a major improvement. So, I was surprised that he did not throw harder last night. All 3 balls were hit fairly well though they did stay in the park. I realize it was game 1. But T Mac did say he did well in one game and not so well in the other when they faced the Phillies.

       BTW. 1-5 homestand is just awful. Someone does need to light a fire. I did notice the difference in the dugouts. Yankees seemed like the Phillies were a few weeks ago. Lot of life.

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76. Obviously, the Phillies are not playing well now. Yes, that’s disappointing, but what is really killing me is that they don’t seem to be the equal of some of the best competition. Is it just a coincidence or them being cold right now? I don’t know, but it’s starting to become a trend and it’s not an encouraging look.

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    1. When the Phillies weren’t all that good, when they went into one of these funks, I just trained myself to ignore them until they started winning again. I think I’m going to go back to that methodology.

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       1. doesn’t bother me as much anymore. This team has earned some trust over the past few seasons. They came out ripping hot and we would all take that followed by a skid than having to have them crawl back in the race. Most of us were expecting WC1 position. Enjoy, not need to worry yet. It’s all about the postseason with this team. The superstars will show up then.

          regarding the deadline, DD did upgrade around the edges. Kept his top prospects, so I’m guessing many of you are happy about that, but the landscape is changing LAD on the rise. BAL & NYY.

          Looks like Soto a& Painter to replace Castellanos & Walker I has a feasible pathway. Depends how much Soto likes NY over Harper & Turner .. plus the money

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          1. I find it amusing that people think Soto might come to Philly. I can’t imagine that possibly happening. 65% or more chance he stays with the Yankees – I mean, why would they let him go? This is the closest thing they’ve ever had to Ruth and Gehrig (which is saying something!!!). Other than that, it’s pretty much L.A. or Boston (yeah, they need a big star and they know it). I’d be shocked (but thrilled) if he came here.

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       2. Been doing that for years. No sense getting boiled and embroiled in their losing.

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77. The Phillies will only go as far as the starters will take them. Before today’s game:

    Schwarber last 14 days: .892 OPS

    Trea Turner: .523 OPS

    Harper: .504 OPS

    Bohm: .758 OPS

    Marsh: .480 OPS

    Stott: .723 OPS

    Castellanos .850 OPS

    Rojas: .665 OPS

    Realmuto: 564 OPS

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    1. Now the pitchers:

       Nola last 14 days: .868 OPS

       Wheeler : .829 OPS

       Sanchez: .802 OPS (it’s likely going up after today)

       Phillips: .359 OPS (!)

       Alvarado: .732 OPS

       Strahm: .944 OPS (Yikes)

       Kerkering: 1.029 OPS (Yikes x 2)

       Hoffman: .419 OPS

       Ruiz: .154 OPS

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       1. Those numbers above explain why the Phillies are losing in the last 2 weeks. The high priced hitters are in a funk (Harper, Trea) and the starting pitching has been getting ripped. And some of the relievers (Strahm, Kerkering) are getting ripped even more.

          The Phillies were super hot early in the season and now they are in a bad funk with ample blame to go around.

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          1. Mariners are 9-13 in July…Dodgers are 11-11 in July…DBacks are 16-8 in July….oh boy gonna be a tough hill to climb.

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             1. Romus. One knows they are snakebit when a new guy drives in 5 one night and the next afternoon a guy hitting .125 against lefties drives in 6. I hope those storm clouds clear soon. This could be a long next couple week.

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                1. Have not seen a lot of wiggle-dancing on the bases after hits lately….hmmm!

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                2. Romus. You are right there. Doing a new our house rules ad. I looked at standings after today. Phillies need to figure things out or they may come back to CBP in 3rd place in division. Braves and Mets are moving in on them.

                   BTW saw an article today on deadline deals. It was summing up things. Baseball America said no top 100 pick was traded. Said the aggregate rating was 45. So, players are projected as less than average MLB guys. Also mentioned that teams were willing to let go 2023 guys who throw hard but had control issues. Klassen was referenced in that group.

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                3. Don….Padres alone traded two Top 100……..LHP Snelling and RHP Lesko….now they were both Top 100 in MLB.com rankings……not sure what BA had them.

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                4. Romus. The only reference in the article was Baseball America. Believe it was a summary on CBS or ESPN. BA gave the 45 grades for all the prospects traded. So, some would be higher and some lower most likely. Doubt all were 45. Article mentioned 3 areas why not many big trades happened. One was all the teams still possible. Said only two really big sellers Rays and Marlins. Timing. Robert injuries. Crotchet demands. One guy I am surprised did not get moved was Rooker. But I guess all the contenders have their DH guy and unfortunately that must be all he is. It mentioned Miller on the timing part with his broken finger.

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       2. welll … Tanner Banks seems like a great pickup … Tough job he will have, but if he keeps doing what he did for the CWS … thats a tremendous move.

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78. Well, if this was an aging non-reliable car you could strip it or sell it for parts. But as it’s a baseball team ….

    Time to flip the narrative from all this losing. Dombrowski should extend Ranger Suarez or try to. 3 years and $64 M. If that doesn’t get it done — then it should be arbitration and going year-to-year. Aside from extending him, Hoffman and Estevez, the attention needs to go to an upgrade of the bats.

    Regardless of how this season plays out, the Phils need to do a position by position evaluation. I assume they do this in any case. But a valuable analysis should include no assumptions based on anything but this year’s performance.

    If we think we know now what next year’s season opening lineup will look like, that working assumption should be challenged with an eye on some changes.

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    1. Exactly what position people do you change……or can you change! The whole infield will come back as it is today….assume the OF with Marsh somewhere………what you are left with are CF and those who love Casty in RF. Pitchers….all the starters come back unless Walker is moved…..the pen can have some changes, as is the case every season it seems. So the starting eight position players may see one change, maybe two if Casty is moved.

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       1. romus, I actually like the bones for the pitching staff as currently composed. Some extensions such as I mentioned above would suffice. I think they’ve made the additions they need.

          Here’s where the fun begins (no 2 people on the planet will agree completely on this):

          Catcher – what is the plan? Realmuto’s contract expires after 2025. He’s a declining resource on a $23,800,000 multi-year deal. Marchan as the backup in 2025 with an eye on giving him the starting job in 2026. It’s an option. Extending Realmuto for 1-year for less $ (if he agrees) could be an option. There’s no way I see Realmuto in candy stripes past 2026. Work on succession needs to be done. This next off-season is none too soon for starting that work..

          Shortstop – what’s the plan? Trea at SS in 2025 doesn’t excite me. I expect him to excite me less in succeeding years. Is it “Stott time” there next year. A position swap? Maybe. Or looking at Trea in LF leaving a hole to plug at 2B (Stott at SS)..

          Left Field – what’s the plan?If Hays plays at his 2023 All Star level it could end the discussion. Will he do it? What’s the plan if he doesn’t?

          Center Field – what’s the plan? By this off-season, will Justin Crawford be positioned as center fielder in waiting? If yes, then the Marsh/Rojas dynamic can do as a place holder. Otherwise, thee position requires the upgrade many were clamoring for at this trade deadline.

          Right Field – Were it me, my highest priority would be trying to find a taker for Castellanos. If you know (I do) you have no impulse to extend him after the 2026 season, you’re in damage control mode. Is there a 30 % chance, I’d pursue it. Hays could be the near term answer in RF if LF is otherwise addressed.

          Designated Hitter – what’s the plan? Scwarber’s deal is up after 2025. To me the options are to extend him (1 year preferably) or prepare to trade him at the 2025 trade deadline. That’s a decision requiring some work/consideration this off-season.

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          1. I think you hit it on the position by position basis. And RF will have to be in play…I would hope for next season. And Turner as the ss going forward…maybe 2B is his future, beginning next season…..Stott to ss. I do think Phillies management are thinking long term on this and probably every positions’ future..

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             1. The Dodgers, Braves,Yankees and Orioles have younger and/or emerging stars. That’s less of a concern if the Phils veteran roster was winning consistently.

                Dombrowski has to be paying attention to when a slump becomes a signal of a veteran’s decline. I applaud his retaining of very top prospects at the deadline.

                This team seemed to derive ‘juice’ from the performance of the unheralded Tyler Phillips. I haven’t seen much juice lately otherwise.

                But a team of veterans on long term contracts, sputtering and getting little help from a weak bench with no short term help in sight from the farm system needs to be a concern, as I’m sure it is,for Dombrowski.

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                1. Dodgers, Yankees and Braves….do not see them with younger stars, or impact players, Braves have them but many questions come about with contracts and injuries. The O’s seem to be the team coming on…..and I think it will be the Nationals also…they will explode with young stars in the field…not quite sure about their pitching however. In one way, happy with Dombrowski in holding onto key prospects.

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          2. So much to consider here, so let’s start

             Catcher – Marchan is, in my view, a starting level major league catcher right now and he’s cheap. He backs up in 2025 and takes over in 2026. By that time, I doubt there’s much overall value difference between him and Realmuto and Marchan is $23 million cheaper. If Realmuto has a really good 2025, they might extend him a year with an option year, but I think they really need to move on and hope they will. I really like Realmuto, but I think he’s the most overrated player on this team.

             Centerfield – This is more a problem next year than for subsequent years. I suspect that next year they will continue with what they have now. I expect Crawford to get a sniff in the majors at the end of next year (he won’t be ready in the spring) and become the starter in 2026. If they were going to trade him, I think it would have been this year.

             Shortstop – there’s no good shortstop option in the minors right now and moving Stott from second to short then creates a problem at second. I expect Turner to be back at short. For now, that’s their best option and even though Turner makes dumb plays he’s about league average in defense and his offense plays so well there. Ultimately, I expect Turner to shift to the outfield, although he might go kicking and screaming. Might be in 2027.

             Right Field – the sooner they can get rid of Castellanos, the better. But, sadly, I see him back in right next year. Man, that was a terrible contract. The situation is made worse by the fact that this team hasn’t been able to develop a really good minor league outfield hitter (a first division regular with an advanced bat) in forever. Most teams have guys like that coming up all the time. Who was the last Phillies big outfield bat from the minors? Anyone from the 2020? Not that I can think of. 2010s? Nope. 2000s? I’m at a loss. 1990s? Not that I can see. You might have to go back to Greg Luzinski and he was really a first baseman. Seriously, it’s insane – a nearly unmatched string of futility and it’s still a problem.

             DH – why are we worried about DH? They can wait this out and see if they want him after the contract ends or they can extend him early. If they don’t sign him, they can assess the market. They will always be able to buy a bat. I’m not too worried about this.

             Third base – Bohm is going to want a big contract. He has definitely improved, but is it enough to give him a big Boras contract? I’m not too sure about that. Aidan Miller is the heir apparent, but Miller is really struggling in high A ball (nobody is talking too much about that, but it’s notable). They can probably

             Closer/Reliever – Getting rid of Seranthony and Soto opens some cap space. The team will be able to afford Hoffman or Estevez – will it try to pay both? Not sure about that.

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             1. Last really legitimate minor league outfield bat that I can recall is Juan Samuel. That’s 40 years ago. Am I missing anyone? I don’t think so and, sorry, but Rhys Hoskins and Darin Ruf were first basemen and Marlon Byrd was okay, but he’s not the kind of player I’m talking about. How do you not develop any good hitting outfielders for 40 years?!!! You should do better than that on just blind dumb luck.

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                1. Juan Samuel actually was a middle infielder-2B- thru out the minors…he followed Julio Franco at Reading in the early 80s….Phillies switched him to OF after he came up. But yuo are correct…..hard to find any OFers that came up thru the ranks that were impactful…mostly all trades….Lenny and Maddox in CF.,

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                2. Last hitter developed by Phillies was George Bell – look him up – and they lost him in the rule 5 draft to Toronto. 3 X All Star and quite a good hitter. Signed when the team dominated the Dominican signings – ala Franco, Samuel….

                   Maybe you could point to Burrell ? Utley – but they were drafted as a hit first players anyway…

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             2. Agree with RF……wonder if that is on Dombrowski’s list of things to do come this off-season. As to Turner, he has played 2B with the Dodgers…..and he would be well suited there with no problems making the transition again.

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                1. I think RF in 2025 will be predicated by the final result of the 2024 season. WS crowns always seem to tempt GM’s to keep the team intact.

                   I think Turner is average at best at ss. He seems to have the uncanny ability to butcher the most routine play.

                   I am prejudice on Stott at 2nd, he is most reliable there.

                   Catcher ……. Marchan is a no brainer. Actually should be up now in my mind.

                   Everyday CF in 2025 that is able to hit is needed.

                   Catch & Romus on the spot…..

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79. Harper and Turner need a Voodoo dance, kill a live rooster and sleep with a fat chick ( slump buster) all in the next couple days… JEEZ

    . Might as well be taking wiffle ball bats up to the plate

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80. catch, that’s a very good analysis and one I pretty much agree with. By not trading Crawford, Miller, Caba and Tait, I take it the Phils see a future for them in Philly, though nothing is assured.

    Bohm, Turner, Stott, Miller, Caba. Who am I missing? If the kids warrant promotion, it will happen while the veterans are under team control. The over-crowding isn’t likely to surface in 2025 but it could require planning and decisions in 2025. To me that implicates the DH position as well as LF.

    Any moves to make the team younger, faster and better defensively raises the question of the fit of both Schwarber and Castellanos as their contracts run down.

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81. I’ll take a stab at what I think the Phillies will do (not what I want them to do):

    DH: Schwarber is playing out his final year. There’s a chance he might get extended for 1 more year.

    C: Realmuto is playing out his final year and will enter FA.

    1B: Harper

    2B: Stott

    SS: Turner

    3B: Bohm

    RF: I think DD will make an effort to trade Castellanos. If he gets traded, I expect Marsh to take RF.

    CF: Marsh with some Rojas. Crawford will be in ST but I don’t expect him to be on the opening day roster. Crawford should be up by summer 2025 if all goes well.

    LF: Hays. The Phillies are going to give him every chance to recapture his AS form.

    Backups: Marchan, Rojas, Sosa, Wilson/Clemens.

    Starters: Wheeler, Nola, Sanchez, Suarez, Phillips. I think Phillips’ performance pretty much sealed it that Walker is getting traded in the offseason. The Phillies will likely have to eat half of Walker’s contract to facilitate a trade. Painter will start the year at AA/AAA.

    Relievers: Alvarado, Strahm, Kerkering, Banks, Hoffman (re-signed), long man. No idea who the other 2 spots will go to (FA or internal options like Marte).

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    1. By the way, I know he’s been injured and he’s no relief pitcher, but I freaking LOVE Spencer Turnbull on the right contract. That dude can pitch and if he’s willing to throw his hat back in the ring to be the #5, that would be great because he’s about as good of a #5 as you are going to see. He’s a very fine pitcher. Now, maybe with Phillips around (the league is going to figure him out to a degree – let’s see how he holds up) and Painter in the minors, you roll the dice. But between guys not playing well and guys getting injured, I’d love to have Turnbull around.

       All of the above assumes the Walker is moved. You can’t have him around next year. He and Casty represent the kind of bad contracts that DD can sometimes do. He’s a great team builder, but he has some serious weaknesses. And he’s at his best when he needs to be frugal or come up with a unique solution. Give him a lot of money and and open market and I start to get nervous.

       Anyway, if you pay half of Walker’s contract, you can use the saved money to sign Turnbull and maybe another reliever.

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       1. Spencer Turnbull wants to be a starter AND the same issue applies this year, how many innings is he going to get? You figure that whoever signs him will know that he can’t go more than 120 innings next season (at age 32). Even then, I don’t see how he doesn’t get say 2/15 from somebody easily. I seriously doubt he’s coming back to the Phillies, especially when we have Phillips and Painter.

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82. Lots of good ideas. I am hoping the guys they have now can figure out what is needed in the next couple weeks for this season. If not, I can see the Braves and/or Mets or both passing the Phillies by and then Phillies are in the WC hunt for one of the 3 spots. It will not surprise me that the Padres pass the Dodgers going forward as well. Dodgers just have so many uncertainties. It might be in the Phillies and Dodgers best interest not to be #1 and #2. Those teams have not fared really well in this format. Guys on MLB Tonight were saying the other night the MLB is actually penalizing the top 2 teams by having them sit for 5 days. Hunter Pence made the same reference with T Mac and Kruk yesterday. Hunter said he did not even like having a day or two off. He was a guy I liked. He brought energy to the lineup.

    This is just my opinion. Everybody is always talking Casty. Casty this, Casty that. I firmly believe he is one if not the favorite player of Rob. Guys on tv constantly reference that he plays every day and for a long time every inning. Managers and coaches like guys who go to the post every day. That is the way it is. So, if Topper is back, I see no reason why Casty will not be either. There are no guarantees and how the remainder of this season plays out most likely will have a huge impact on the direction of the team. But for 2025 I do not see much turnover from what is on the field now. They have to play better. Bottom line.

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    1. I think Casty is a favorite of DD, which is why he’s on the team in the first place.

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83. Aimed to mention JT. He is the guy. I am amazed at the physical beating he seems to take almost on a game basis. There is no doubt it has major effects on his offense. Defensively I think he is still right up there. No doubt offense has taken a major hit. Verducci mentioned other night that in 40 at bats where he had been pitched at 95+ he only had 3 hits. All the teams know that, and it will be an issue going forward. But I see no one behind him. I do agree that Marchan is probably a better option than Stubbs. But again, one can see where the loyalty lies with Rob.

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84. Guys, ……… we discussed the 2025 roster, but we didn’t really discuss the skipper. I heard before the year that the organization had to talk Thomson out of retiring. Don’t know if that was valid or not. IYO, will he be back crown 👑 or no crown?

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    1. Okay, that sounds completely silly to me.

       Topper has been working his whole career to become a manager and it looked like he was never going to get that opportunity. Then he gets the job and it’s pretty darned close to the perfect set up with stars, a big payroll, WS and NLCS appearances, and an ownership that will spend in a city that supports a good team. This is manager heaven.

       I think Topper wants to retire as much as Donald Trump is okay with someone else being the next President. This is the job of a lifetime for him – why would he want to quit?

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       1. According to Philly Nation he considered it at the conclusion of 2022. He’s signed through 2025. I don’t think it’s a preposterous question. Yeah, I know it’s a good job, but it is also draining with all the pressures and he has been doing it for a long time ….. and he’s reasonably good at it.

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85. And while I’m at it, I STILL try to get Ranger signed. Ranger is a classic kid from a foreign land who wants to be quite, not complain and just do his job. I am fairly confident that his declining performance was almost all about his not being healthy (and some regression to the mean, that’s some part of it of course). But it’s also lowered his market value, which is fortuitous for a team with a lot of big contracts. Get this guy signed. He really can pitched like a 1 or 2 and and he’s money in the postseason. It’s not a coincidence AT ALL that this team started to flag when Ranger started to struggle. I will go on the record now that if we don’t sign him long term (at least 4,5 years), someone like the Braves or Yankees or Dodgers will and not only will we regret it, he will visit vengeance upon us when he plays us in the future.

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    1. catch. I agree on keeping Ranger. Personally, I think he may perform better in years to come than Nola. Just my thought. I like Nola. But I do really like Ranger. He is a clutch guy. Those are hard to find.

       I am not going one way or the other on Topper. I am not sure his age. I do agree he figured this was never going to happen. I am sure he figured he would be Girardi’s guy for as long as Joe was here. I am still surprised that did not work. I thought it would. But today is not like by gone years. Some guys just say enough is enough and walk away. Not saying Topper does that or Phillies would let him without a hard push to keep him. But he has been to the WS. Should have been twice. Most likely would have won last season had they made it. Hopefully this team does make it but that is still to be seen. No guarantees in today’s playoff system.

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86. Hoosier Don, ……… numerous people on here have been on Casty’s defense, but all of them unanimously agree ….. what he gets too, he catches …….. just a rumor, but I understand that after the 3rd and 7th inning the 1B umpire will now be checking his glove for “stickem”….. who would have thought!😎

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    1. Look, Casty gives 100 percent, appears well-liked by his teammates and generally catches what he gets to. But he’s still not a good fielder and he’s not a good offensive player either. He’s a $20 million a year player who plays to a negative WAR – just not good.

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       1. Not sure what the number is anymore….but the monetary value of a 1WAR rating, use to be the equivalent of approx. $8M. If it is still the case, then Dave D really went overboard on Walker, Casty and one can also make a case for Schwarber’s contract. Then again also JTR and Turner’s will be under scrutiny in a few years. Middleton and Dombrowski have their own ‘Santa Claus’ reputations floating thru MLB. As that one exec said the other day…..’everyone wants to deal with Dave’.

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          1. Romus. You are much more the analytical guy than I. I just try to watch guys perform. One thing I would take to the bank is that the Phillies were 100% convinced that Casty was going to give them more offensively than he has to this point and most likely till his time in Philly ends. I remember guys around here telling me that they could not believe Phillies got Casty when they did. They thought he was the guy we saw briefly last season against Braves and a few other times. I am sure if DD gave him what he did it was because someone else was very close in what they would do. I do not believe DD gave him lots more in $$s or years than some other team was willing to do. As far as Walker I am not sure. He won a lot of games last year and was most definitely the number 1 dugout cheerleader during the playoffs. He has never been one of my favorite pitchers, but he has been ok. Schwarbs I think has got lots better. Seems his HRs are going to be down. But he has better at bats. Lots of walks. Sees lots of pitches as leadoff guy. He has bumped his average up quite a bit as well. One last point on Casty. I always tried to coach kids who played for me, my kids, my grandkids to simply make the plays on defense you should make. If you do that you are going to help your team. Great plays are fun to watch but simply making the proper play helps your team win. I have always felt Casty does that. I am sure that is not missed by Rob.

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             1. Speaking of heavy bats.

                For my birthday, two of my (adult) kids got me a signed Bryce Harper bat, which is so cool. But, damn, that thing is as heavy as an anvil. I have no idea how he hits the ball with that bat.

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                1. catch. That is really a neat thing for you. I am happy. I guess my only claim to a real souvenir is the signed baseball of all the team I got in either 72 or 73. I forget if my wife and I were married or if it was 72. Her parents got transferred first to Baltimore then quickly Philly. I graduated high school in 71. We got married in June of 73 so most likely it was 72. That was the awful team, but Carlton was great. I have kept it in one of those plastic containers all these years. You can still read some of the names. The Phillies played the Cubs that weekend and Cubs probably won all the games. My wife’s dad was an executive with ARCO and they had a suite right behind the dugout. He got the ball for me. They went to many games. That was cool

                   On a light note, the bat Bryce is using now may be an anvil. Guys right now are throwing those 93-94 fastballs right by him at the moment. Ryan Howard also used a big bat.

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    2. oldruff. I wrote last week I think when he was getting blasted by some that I think he does better than some here give him credit. Is he the perfect RF. No. I am much more disappointed in his offensive production than his defensive. He does hustle. He does usually take good routes to the ball. He usually throws the ball back in to the right spot. Some guys throw it everywhere. I am much more disappointed in his offensive performance than defense. I envisioned the guy the Reds, and others had before he arrives here. I thought we would see a guy hitting balls in the gaps and 30 HRs or so with around 100 RBIs. That has not happened. I am sure I have harped on this more than anyone else. His bat looks like one a caveman used back in the day. To me in my easy chair it just looks too big. I would really like to see him more patient. We get glimpses but few and far between.

       But I truly believe he is one of if not the favorite player for Rob. That is why I believe he will be in RF next year. But oldruff I am only Hoosier Don a long way from any of the decision makers for the Phillies. LOL

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87. “What? Are we not allowed to disagree with you and make a strong argument with a different pov?”

    V1, of course you or anyone can have a different opinion than mine. I think I even suggested we agree to disagree before your above quote. But if you want to disagree with me or anyone you need to at least be accurate. You weren’t, and I pointed out your mistakes in my reply. You ignored the corrections in my response and went right to your comment that included the above quote.

    Your insistence that your response was a strong argument is still wrong. You can’t include mistakes like those I pointed out and think your POV is still strong. Okay, you can think it, but I don’t have to accept it as anything other than your opinion.

    This wasn’t about whether Marsh is a good player or the trade being beneficial or whatever else. It was about my opinion that Marsh has become a platoon player and that we traded what appears to be a promising young starting catcher for a platoon player.

    Losing sight of that by you or anyone else here does me a disservice.

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    1. You didn’t include the sentence right before my comment that you quoted was in response to you saying that I was trying to“bully” you for challenging your comments on Marsh. Strange that you left that part out of your quote.

       Anyway, you made it personal, not me. I didn’t “bully” you or anyone else. I have always been respectful of you and comments here.

       I didn’t respond because I honestly don’t enjoy debating with people who react the way you did. Whenever that happens online I just ignore the person and move on. Make your points without insults and I will respond.

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88. I was reading the Athletic article in regards to Marsh’s inability to hit lefties a few weeks ago. Has anyone else read this? I may be reading between the lines a little but it kind of felt like K Long was a little perturbed with the amount of time Marsh is putting in to figure out how to hit lefties at a better clip. Not trying to start anything, just curious what other thought about the quotes.

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    1. I read that article and shared it here too. I don’t have the same take as you. I think KLong and Schwarber are both very confident that Marsh will hit lefties. It just requires a different approach. Last year Marsh had a .717 OPS vs LHP. To put that in perspective, of that was his overall OPS then that would be the 37th best OPS overall for any MLB outfielder. There are 90 starting OF positions. So his weak hand split was nearly top 1/3rd of all OFs OPS last year. Last year his overall OPS was 10th best among OF. So to conclude that he can’t hit LHP and is locked into being a platoon player because he is having a bad season against LHP seems like an over reaction to me. Pitchers made an adjustment to him this year. He needs to make an adjustment back. He is a hard worker and a great athlete.

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       1. Marsh just K’s too much. Period. I consider him a gap hitter with occasional power. Since has has come to the Phillies he has a higher K rate than Schwarber and even Ryan Howard. His K rate is around 31%. That K rate is ok if you hit 45 Hrs and drive in 120 runs. But not the way Marsh hits. How do you teach a guy to make better contact? Generally you can’t. I guess it isn’t impossible.

          The Phillies system has not had good results with those types lately. I’m thinking of guys like Cozens, Ortiz and Radcliffe. Marsh is obviously far superior to those guys but teaching somebody to make contact is very hard.

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          1. Agree……I love the guy, but even his career K rate vs RHPs is 30%.

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          2. His K% vs LHP is 44%. terrible. His K% vs RHP is 29%. His OPS vs RHP is very good even with a 29% K rate. His issues this year are against LHP.

             Those other guys you mentioned are not good comps for Marsh. Marsh is a far far superior hitter to those guys. also, the development staff is different. KLong didn’t work with any of those guys.

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89. Since May 24th the Phillies have played to a 28-29 record. That’s no small sample size. At this point I’m not sure if this years team is much better than last years. And I’m deathly afraid that we will go into one of these team wide funks at some point in October like we have the last two Octobers. Fingers crossed!

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    1. Rich. Count me as very concerned as well. These next couple weeks are going to be telling. Unless things change Phillies could be in or near 3rd in division when they return. Plus, basically the same players.

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       1. I’m still pretty confident that our boys can pull out the division title. Unless one of the Braves or Mets has a run similar to the Rockies in 2007(?). Haven’t looked at strength of schedule for all 3 teams yet though.

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90. See the playoff schedule is now out. WC Oct. 1-3. Division Oct. 5-12. CS Oct. 13-22. WS Oct 25- Nov. 2. Hope the Phillies are playing well at this time of year.

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    1. Don…if the Phillies win the division they should start on Oct 5th….meaning gives the pitchers 5 days to rest or rust.

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       1. Romus. Hunter Pence was not a big fan of the layoff. He mentioned both as hitters and even pitchers like to stay in rhythm. I would be thrilled if they can claim one of the top 2 spots. But I am not sure. Things have to change soon.

          Rich is mentioning the Phillies going 30-24. Gosh that seems like a dream at this time. If they go 27-27 then that lowers the number for Braves or Mets. I do think this west coast swing will go a long way to determine how things play out. Braves have the minor league Marlins this weekend. A sweep and they could be on the Phillies heels as early as next week.

          I think the Phillies have the advantage on the mound, but it has to change that they do not have to throw a shutout to win.

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       2. Romus. I just saw that Nightengale says the WS will be moved up to Oct. 25 if both LCS series end by the 19th. So, the 25th may be a soft date. Guess it might be 28th if one goes 7 games. Kind of confusing.

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91. If the Phillies go 30-24 the rest of the way, giving us a 95-67 record. That would mean that the Braves and Mets would have to go –

    Braves 37-18

    Mets 39-15

    To take the division. Not sure I see that happening.

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    1. One year for anyone too young to remember – 1964.

       Don’t know what the problem is, but all of a sudden all of the team’s flaws are being unveiled. Injuries to starting pitching, bull-pen taking turns at imploding, and no runs scored other than by HR. Harper slump is final domino to fall.

       Unless this turns around ASAP I don’t see us going 30-24. more like 24-30 at best. Hopefully we hold on to a wild card spot

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92. Hopefully a West Coast trip will do them some good. I am not as bullish on them as I was before the AS break.

    My opinion has always been that DD’s work here would end up being more akin to his work in Detroit which also was a peak of a WS loss.

    I’m hoping to be proven wrong on that of course.

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93. I am concerned but I expect them to bounce back in a big way. If they can get Ranger healthy again, then they are locked in 4 deep in the rotation with a better bullpen and a more balanced line-up. This team could easily reel off a 20 win month this month or next.

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94. Seeing that Mick Able is being moved to the Developmental List. Kind of says it puts a pause on things for him. High ERA, high walks, high number or HRs. Sure, there are many here who understand this much better than I. This was actually the first time I have seen it. Says it is a new thing for MLB.

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    1. The development list is just a procedural way to move a player temporarily off the active roster to create room for another, it’s nothing more than that. Mick will be added back in time for his next start.

       Steve Potter

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95. Seeing Trout is now out for the rest of the season. It is a shame Injuries have so interrupted his later career. He is such a good player. Another reason you win when you have a chance. Things happen.

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    1. Banner news ………. said another meniscus tear.

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96. FYI. If anyone is interested. Matt Snyder has a betting odds article up on CBS for the divisions, playoffs and WS. Phillies still heavy favorites for division. Dodgers are 1 and Phillies are 2 for NL. Same two favored for WS. Snyder says Phillies are his pick from start and says it may get worse next couple weeks but sees them getting well when they return home for Nats and Marlins. He is sticking with them for WS title.

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97. Saw this last night following the Yankees series. This was the first time in 2 years Phillies have been swept. So hopefully speaks well for this trip. 62 series since Phillies had been swept. Said that is a team record. 171 games since Phillies had lost 4 straight games. Means they have that guy or guys who have been able to right the ship. Said that was 2nd all time in games. 9-14 for July. Ouch. August sets up as possibly difficult as well. Only Nats and Marlins are not in playoff contention of teams on schedule. 6 of the last 12 games in August are against Braves. Looks like August may be very telling going into the last month of the season. Finally, this may be important Phillies need 1 win in LA to win tie breaker vs Dodgers for season since Phillies swept Dodgers at CBP. That seems like a long time ago. Hoping things begin to shape up tonight. Welcome to August guys.

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98. Generally if you’re not a sociopath you feel the pressure that comes with high expectations. The physical response of stress is a real thing as well and not conducive of sports performance.

    Perhaps its why when we witness it from guys like Jordan, Brady or Jeter we’re left in awe. Or maybe they were sociopaths LOL

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    1. Yep…those hormones sometime kick in….either flight or fight.

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       1. Romus. Just read article on Trout. I did not realize all his injuries are different. That is really unusual. He might still bounce back in time but 33 now. Article just rips Moreno and Angels. Had both Trout and Ohtani for 6 years and no playoffs. Angels still owe 6 years and $212M. Wow. It said he has only played 41 games after All Star break with first injury. Missed lots more games than games played. Will he still be a HOF? This was a CBS article.

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          1. Mike Trout is already a HOFer.

             Once a player hits 30, especially if he’s a big burly guy, it’s anyone’s guess as to how he will physically hold up. But it’s entirely unpredictable. Mike Trout breaks down and David Ortiz and Nelson Cruz rake until they are around (or past!) 40. Very random.

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             1. Catch. I have no issue with that. But I am sure some of the media guys will say no major playoff accomplishments. Like they do on many others. I have not seen him much being on west coast but always great when given opportunity to watch. He actually had the most HRs this season when he was hurt. Can they just make him a permanent DH to try to avoid some of this?

                Who compares to him now with his current stats who is already in HOF? Many of you are so much more statistical aware than I am. You are correct that it is weird on injuries. None of the 4 seem like devastating ones but more like nagging ones. But you are correct that some body makeups just lend to an earlier breakdown. I am hoping he is able to recover and have some more good years.

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                1. Don, with all due respect, there’s no precedent for keeping him OUT of the HOF.

                   He is a 3 time MVP. He’s finished 1st or 2nd in MVP voting 7 times and top 5 9 times! His WAR peak years were extensive and among the best in history – an AVERAGE of 8.8 WAR over an 8 year period. He already has 86 WAR and there are no eligible HOFers who are not tainted (gambling, drugs, etc. . . ) with that many WAR who are not in the HOF.

                   If he does nothing else and retires this offseason he will still go the HOF and will probably do so quickly.

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99. Catch. Those are plenty good for me. It is a shame so many baseball fans have not had the opportunity to see Mike play more. Notably in playoff scenarios. Haven’t I heard Romus, and some others say that 80 is like the magic number for inclusion? Maybe 70 is the number. Whatever it is Mike is fine for me. Thanks for doing that.

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    1. Don….HoF inclusion and a player’s WAR could be used……of course a high WAR does mean a player has been outstanding….but then again a Harold Baines gets in with a WAR of 39 then you have to question the validity of that vote. Then you have JRoll with a 48WAR career and he is on the cusp for selection but already passed over, or a Curt Schilling….a 54WAR career MLB pitcher and will not be allowed in the hall…so you see where I am going. Trout should be a no brainer. Mickey Mantle was similar to Trout thru his age30 season, as far as WAR is concerned…injuries took a toll on him also …his last 5/6 years he was basically a 3WAR player.

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       1. Curt Schilling isn’t in the HOF due to writers hating his guts and his controversial post-baseball life and positions, all of which have cost him some important votes. On the merits, he is a clear HOFer.

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          1. By comparison, Mike Trout is one of the squeakiest clean HOF candidates you will ever see. Has done nothing but put his head down, play hard, be a good guy and attend Eagles games :).

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             1. catch. If Trout went to Cowboys games, he would be 1st ballot for me. We all cannot be Eagles fans. LOL

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                1. Hey – that’s your problem – lol!

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          2. catch. I am still jealous of your Harper bat. That is so cool. I have my signed Phillies team baseball. Trade! Schilling is different. But he possessed one of the traits I so admired of kids who played for me over the 25+ years I coached. He was a Gamer. You knew what you were going to get. I coached so many kids in different sports who were really good 4 o’clock players. Term we used here to describe those who could really play before the lights and the crowd showed up. I had lots of both. In fact, one of my high school teammates was the 4 o’clock. He was so good till the ref threw the ball up. If he could have performed in games at 60% to 70%, we would have been really good. He never overcame that.

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             1. Don…Curt’s sock and blood along with his cleats he wore 20 years ago…”K ALS” are in Cooperstown from what I understand…so he passed the DNA test!

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                1. That is the kind of guy I wanted playing for me. Gamer. So, part of him made it. I think I had known that. Maybe.

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             2. Don don’t be jealous. But I have a signed Wig, romus wore . From Woodstock

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       2. So, Romus you are saying that my -5WAR may keep me from even getting in on the Old Timers ballot? Hmm. I see what you are saying. Really no magic number. For some reason 70 or 80 seemed to register to me that had been discussed here. I always thought Dale Murphy was really good for a short period of time like Chase Utley. Believe 2 MVPs. I forget if he is even in now or not. If not, he would be for me.

          I got to thinking yesterday after catch mentioned his Harper bat if I would have ever played against Mike Schmidt. Sure, my ball is the 72 team. Schmitty I think came to Phillies in 74. Hit like .180 and lots of Ks. I know he went to Ohio U. My legion team played lots of Ohio, Kentucky and Illinois teams back then. I played Legion from 69-71. Never occurred to me till yesterday. Underwood was a year younger. Gullet was two older. Mike may have been same age maybe.

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          1. Don…Schmidt was born in 1949….assume he would be a few years older than you. I think he was at Ohio U in those years ’67-’71.

             But a player with a 70plusWAR should easily be inducted. But will be interested in seeing if Buster Posey and his 45WAR get him in next year.

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             1. Buster Posey was a unique player, I think he was literally THE difference maker on those three Giants WS champions (I have to keep reminding myself that the Giants won 3 WS in a span of 5 years – it’s crazy). To me, he a class low WAR outlier. He was an amazing clutch player who always made a difference and was, in my view, one of the two or three best players in baseball for like 5 or 6 years. I’d vote him in but aside for a rare case like his, typically, a guy doesn’t really get consideration until he’s close to 60 WAR (assuming he’s not a reliever).

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                1. catch. I agree. Giants’ kind of did it with smoke and mirrors at times. I had forgot that Hunter Pence was on 2 of those WS winners for Giants. I liked him. Did he get moved because he was going to be a free agent? He was an energy guy. At times it seemed Mad Bum was their only pitcher. Posey is along the lines of Dale Murphy. Really good for a short period of time. But Posey has 3 rings. Again, they played well at the right time of the year.

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             2. Romus. Yep. 53 here. He was not the Michael Jack who hit the baseball over the railroad tracks off of me that they are still looking for the ball. I am only kidding. I never let anyone do that. I did play a few times where there was a railroad track behind the outfield.

                I just looked at my Philles signed baseball. I think Luzinski was on that team. Names are in blue, red and tan ink. But some are legible. Was Dick Allen on that team. Looks like Del Unser was. The player who wrote the nicest was Tom Wood. You can read that like it was written today. I could not find Lefty. Some are just scribbled on there. I am sure no one figured some guy in Indiana would have that ball 52 years later. Plus, I think that team won like 56 or 58 games and Lefty won 27. He had lots of help. McCarver would have been on that team. I am going to have to have my grandkids look at the names. This may be the only signed ball from that team that is still in existence. One name looks like Larry Anderson, but it is not clear.

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100. wow, 8-0 after 2 against one of the worst hitting teams in baseball how embarrassing I know we will be told tomorrow that everything‘s gonna be OK and we’re just in a slump but as for me, I’m going to bed. Good night everyone.

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     1. Great planning, I followed suit. Saw this morning that Stubbs got his ERA down with a quiet last inning ……… becoming quite the closer …… and we thought we needed to go out and get one.

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101. I’m not getting $247,000,000 worth of enjoyment out of watching this team. In fact, there are a few guys I’d like to not see again in a Phillies uniform. I’ve seen good and bad but never this bad with this kind of payroll.

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102. Who would have thought after the game last Saturday that the Guardians and Phillies would go in opposite directions. I know the Phillies have not won. I think the Guardians may have not lost. Regardless they have won most since last Saturday. I am glad I did not put the game on. Sounds like it was over almost as soon as it began.

     I mentioned earlier that Phillies may not hold Braves and Mets off much longer. It would be truly amazing if they are in 3rd place in division in a few days.

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103. Cleveland has won 5. Phillies have lost 5. Phillies won 8-0 last Saturday. Go figure.

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104. It’s not my purpose to provoke or inflame, though this might do both to some readers.

     Dombrowski said last off-season that management was ‘all in’ following disappointing conclusions to the previous seasons.

     I approved the Merrifield signing though it didn’t get the desired results. That with the Wheeler and Nola extensions were the big moves.

     The trade deadline has come and gone. The cavalry is not coming from over some hill. The minors have no easy fixes for a Phils’ roster with shortcomings being exposed.

     There are problems with the bats that probably can’t be addressed till the off-season. The latest swoon is a reminder of the one that took place in the 2023 NLCS. If the Phils snap out of their offensive doldrums, they’ve reminded us that the bats could go cold again at anytime.

     On the pitching side, guys like Phillips, Allard and Mercado can’t be seen as reliable back-of-the-rotation answers for the team goig down the stretch. It’s not clear what Walker or Turnbull have to offer. If Suarez returns at 80% of his April-May level, the rotation stacks up well against any competion. But if he doesn’t ….?

     The Phils’ middle relievers Ruiz and Marte are squishy soft. If Alvarado and Kerkering were going strong, they could compensate. But they aren’t. .Tanner Banks appears to be the only reliever they can rely on for multiple innings.

     All in? To me the low cost, low risk, possible high upside answer is signing Trevor Bauer. It’s been discussed before but it’s particularly timely now.

     If Suarez returns as strong as ever the Phils’ are solid 1-4. If Walker comes back better than he’s ever been in Philly, the team is solid at #5. What are the odds?

     But if this were to happen, Bauer is someone to slot into a middle innings relief role. The guy made news the other day for his 9 consecutive strikeouts in the Mexican League. I’s not the majors but no one had ever done it before.

     If this reeks to some like a desperation move, I respond that the public outcry would pale next to what it will be if the Phils fail to fulfill the promise of their early season success. All the regular season tickets at the Bank have been sold already. If there’s a PR problem in signing Bauer, think of the PR problem if the Phils fall short. If the Phils have the strong locker room culture that everyone describes, then bring in a veteran with every reason to show he is still a major leaguer makes sense.

     You’ve heard the Bauder argument before and are tired of it? I’ll tell you what I’m tired of. It’s seeing Garrett Stubbs pitch 3 times in 14 games forban ‘all in’ team built to win now with the 4th highest payroll in baseball.

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     1. I thought it was a very sound post Fighter and well articulated. I’ve never been a Bauer fan but at this point you can’t say on one hand you’re in win now mode and on the other not make a low risk move like that to improve the pitching staff.

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105. That’s a lot of words to say nothing….

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     1. middle reliever Bauer isn’t riding in to save the day.

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     2. Thanks for reading. Not all that glitters on here is gold.. Might warrant re-readingv in 2 weeks depending on how things play out.

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        1. The Phillies could lose the next 14 straight and middle reliever Bauer still isn’t riding in to the rescue.

           They win or lose based on the play of all of the $20 million players on the roster. Any success or failure belongs to them.

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        2. I can say this about Bauer…..he has good taste in agents.

           So far this season down in Mexico he is tearing up the hitters…..now the hitters may be minor league equivalent of A ball hitters. SO there is that.

           To sign him to a MLB min contract for the last 7 weeks would not be too costly and cold be of some benefit.

           Not sure how much of his reputation will proceed him into the locker room…..then again the locker room is full of veteran stars, so he may not have any detrimental effect with team chemistry.

           I’d say why not…the team is spiraling down….complete opposite of the previous two seasons.

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           1. Romus. If they do not snap out of it soon it is going to get ugly. They have to start winning some games. Not all but at least half of them. Amazing the difference a week makes. Wow. I am not a big Bauer fan but sometimes you have to do something you normally would not do. But the success or failure of this team relies on the hitters. They have got to start making it easier for the pitchers.

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        3. I enjoyed the read. Bauer seems to leave a scent trail and I think a fear prevails that if you do that you will need to de-scent the pitching corps. You made some really good points, though.

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106. If the Phils pull out of their tailspin, then not signing Bauer is obvious and the idea laughable. But if they don’t, then what will it sound like the next time you hear the Phils are ‘all in.’?

     -fills team needs as a starter or mid-reliever

     -not expensive

     -doesn’t involve a long term commitment

     -doesn’t block an emerging talent

     -wouldn’t be joining a young, impressionable team if he is toxic

     -keeping the team on autopilot at the current pace doesn’t play in this market

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107. On another note, watching Phillips when he won his two games, he struggled a bit in the first couple of innings both games. Then he seemed to get into the groove and got stronger as the game went on. Counting the home runs he gave up in the Braves game and last night, I think that adds up to six.

     Being hard up for pitching, he’ll probably get another start or two. Allard today seems like a throw away. Next time his turn comes around, Walker should be ready and then Suarez should step in, if healthy, for Phillips’ next start.

     And one more: when the Phillies came to West Palm/Jupiter during spring training, I got to watch Cal Stevenson play CF. I thought he did really well. At LHV he has 7 homers, 39 RBIs, 29 steals and is batting .311. Would be interesting (to me) to see Marsh and him against righties and Rojas and Hale against lefties.

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108. Just a note on the outfield deal. I know lots of people here did not want Chisholm added by the Phillies for various reasons. I am not a Jazz fan by any means but it appears he has rejuvenated the Yankees at least in the short term with his energy and enthusiasm. It will be interesting to see how things play out. Anyway, he seems to be their 3B at this point. That is why you like to have guys who are former shortstops. Just seem to have a good feel for the game and whatever position you put them at. No idea why he decided to hit 4 HRs vs Phillies.

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     1. Good, ……. find a position for Turner not called ss or 2b.🤭

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        1. oldruff. Where do you put him? Only one I can see is flipping him and Stott. Why have they not done it? Just a guess but probably they promised Turner he can play short when they signed him. I have no idea if that is correct. I did like Chisholm telling Boone he was fine wherever. Boone wanted Torrez to move, and he balked though Boone benched him last night for effort. You can tell from those games in Philly he has soft hands as a fielder. One of my bigger takeaways from the Yankees series was the dugouts. Yankees just had so much more life to them

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109. FWIW……checked out Justin Crawford’s career splits vs LHPs…..BA of .324……136ABs ……44 hits…..he did however punch with a K, 48 times.

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     1. Romus. Appears to be a 33-33-33 kind of guy. Hits, Ks, and balls hit in play.

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110. Phillies dugout was comatose. I don’t believe Boone puts up with much 🐴💩. Phillies are inept on knowing how to score runs without use of the HR. I shudder when extra inning games begin with the guy placed on second, for the fundamental strategy to score the runner escapes us.

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     1. I agree on the extra inning deal. Seems the other team usually tries to win. Phillies just play it like any other inning. Most recent the 12-inning game. Down 1, Marsh leads off. First pitch a fly ball to left center. If the pitch is on the outside part of the plate maybe you should realize most likely you hit it toward left field. I do not care who you are you have 1 job. Get the runner to 3B. Made no difference since the next 2 guys struck out. But maybe there might have been a wild pitch. That was how they scored twice to keep the game going. No timely hitting.

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111. Pops ………. odds that you’ll be retiring early tonight? Bullpen game with the constellation Orion rising on the western hemisphere.😉

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112. I think it’s so sad, way topper uses his bullpen. It’s pretty clear from everything any of us have heard and read that guys out of the bullpen do better when they have set roles. to bring Hoffman in the 6th in my opinion is malpractice. How many games has this team lost over the last few years because the way this guy handles his bullpen. At what point do they decideMaybe we should try something different? For all the talk about the lack of hitting, it’s the pitching that’s been killing them. it’s just really sad. We certainly need our ace to pitch like one today

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     1. Totally disagree. These are professional athletes. Their job is to get outs. Doesn’t matter if it is the 6th inning or the 9th. Get outs. If they don’t, it is on the player not the manager.

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113. Might be a first for me after six decades of watching Philly sports,

     …..Phillies could be the fourth…all Philly teams started the season great,

     …..championship banners and parades  written all over them for the first 3/4ths of the season….and then the collapse. 

     Not sure I have ever seen all four teams in the same year do that. Just maybe the Phillies will turn it around and win.

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114. Bohm is on pace to have 613 abs, drive in 112 runs, hit near .300 and only score 49 runs. Seems impossible. And my favorite stat – strikeout less than 100 times!

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     1. He is doing what is expected. Guys in front and behind. Not so much. Good points. At least he came through with situational hitting in 1s inning last night. If not, a hit makes a productive out. Why you might see 112.

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     2. That should say 73 runs. My bad. Read the wrong stat. Old.

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115. Romus. I had not put those others together. You may have something. Hope not. I only watched the top of the 1st inning. Runners on 2nd and 3rd and no outs. You need to get more than one run. Two would have won the game. Actually, improved on performance from Minnesota where they got zero in that situation in the 1st inning. Had a feeling how game last night would turn out. I am not a fan of bad baseball and the Phillies at this time are all of that. Poor situational hitting, poor defense physically and mentally at times, and inability to throw strikes when needed by BP guys. It is a total team effort. Going to take the same to maybe turn it around. At least Braves and Mets lost.

     Phillies can hang their hat on one thing. It seems since A’s, Pirates, Twins all of those have played better. Appears they have totally rejuvenated the Guardians, Yankees and maybe now Mariners. Where are the White Sox when you need them.

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116. Romus. Being an IU basketball, Dallas Cowboy football, and Phillies baseball futility and those teams’ kind of go together in recent years. 22 WS was a bright spot. Last season for me was total disappointment. Games 6 and 7 were the same as Cowboys total choke job vs Green Bay. To make both worse they were at home in each case. WS was right there for the taking. One of the reasons I have serious concerns with basically the same players.

     BTW Ben Joyce beat Mets last night for Angels with a 104.7 strikeout. How soon does MLB see a 110 pitch? It is coming. When?

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     1. Whoa….105mph is just too much…..that is Bob Feller speed…his was measured by the old system at  107.6 mph…then they measured it when it crossed the plate…now  pitch velocity is measured 50 feet from home plate, so very soon after the ball leaves a pitcher’s hand.

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     2. Don…fastest pitcher alive was legendary LHP Steve Dalkowski…..  was 5ft 10in and 170lb, not a particularly intimidating mound presence. But he was fast and wild, with 1,324 strikeouts – and 1,236 bases on balls – over 956 innings pitched from 1957 to 1965. He had 262 strikeouts and 262 walks over 170 innings for the Class C Stockton Ports in 1960……His four-seam fastball, called his “radio pitch” because batters could hear it but not see it, was practically unhittable … when it streaked over home plate. But just as many pitches sailed over batters’ heads, even into the stands. It was said he once hit a fan waiting in line for a hot dog. He was known for throwing pure heat, but there was no way back then to quantify just how fast he threw.”

        https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/nov/24/steve-dalkowski-

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117. Romus. You are too funny. These times need funny. I am not surprised at that. It is arm speed and how much you get your legs into pitch. The fastest softball pitcher I ever saw in person was about that size. Likewise, he was as wild as could be. I never saw the King in person though my team played them once. I had commitment at State Fair that night. So, did that fan get a dog on the fly or a pain in the backside? Here is something I noted a while back, but it happened again today. I get your reply on my phone before it comes over on the computer. Weird. Buddy Choate was about the size of Dalkowski. He was the wildest guy I had to ever bat against on a regular basis. But I never saw him nail a fan waiting on a hot dog. He nailed me more than once to Stanky’s delight I thought. He always made me hit against him me being a left-handed batter. J. D. Martinez had about the same response on the pitch last night. He said he had never seen one like that. Must be the new Mason Miller. I heard how Miller broke his finger. He had a 1, 2, 3 inning to win game. They told him to go lift weights and he went kind of berserk and hit something in dugout.

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118. I just saw the highlights on CBS clip. Did not know they led 5-0 and managed to walk in the winning run. Hard to tell ball hit to Harper what happened other than it appeared 2 runs scored. When it rains it pours. Instead of just blowing 3 run leads it has expanded to 5. Simply wow.

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119. Hoosier Don, Romus & all, ……..my brother sent me a newspaper article from which I pulled this info.

     ……. there is no bunting in baseball, just like there is no crying in baseball.

     August 18, 1927, HOF pitcher Ted Lyons is on the mound in the 12th inning. The batter, the “Great Bambino”. Lyons record against Ruth is (5 — 113) lifetime. Babe Ruth lays down a sacrifice bunt which subsequently scores Mark Koening with the winning run.

     …..oh, by the way, this is the year Ruth hits 60 homeruns ………. oh, by the way this is the year Ruth had 14 sacrifice bunts.

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     1. So I think you’re saying that even when Ruth, due to then-existing managerial foolishness, bunted when he should have hit away, he was still good enough to hit 60 homers.

        Seriously, once in a while a bunt is a pretty good play, but, overall, teams used to bunt way too much. That fact that Ruth hit 60 homers and also bunted 14 times doesn’t prove too much to me.

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        1. What it proves, Is NO ONE IS BIGGER THAN THE GAME, He did whatever it took to win, Lost art in todays game,

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           1. According to the numbers i can find, I know people dont like the bunt with runners on ,but 62 percent scored from thrid, and third only with one out, i Take that number all day in extra inning games, at home,

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              1. rocco……best bunter on the Phillies by the numbers, or for that matter maybe in MLB is Bryce Harper……57 PAs (45ABs)….22 hits and 12 sacrifice bunts.

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                 1. Romus. Bryce is one of the good bunters. 2B in Cleveland is very good as weel. Jimenez, I believe. But not many

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                 2. Bryce bunted mostly against the shift,,,3b in the ss area…..rarely if ever dragged bunted…whereas Whitey Ashburn perfected the drag bunt. but Lee Mazzilli may have been the best % wise…40 attempts 35 hits…..and for one season Brett Butler had 29 bunt hits in one season and 188 for his career–50% hit rate.

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              2. Rocco. Several more ways to score from 3B than 2B. Simply puts more pressure on defense as well. I like the player that can hit the ball to the 2B side of the diamond in that situation. It does not have to be the bunt. Phillies 2 runs against Yankees came via a wild pitch.

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                 1. Fangraphs has a good article regarding this situation.

                    So You Want to Bunt in Extra Innings | FanGraphs Baseball

                    This is their conclusion.

                    • Visiting teams shouldn’t bunt to lead off extra innings
                    • Home teams should bunt to lead off extra innings only in a tie game
                    • Visiting teams should steal third at the same rate they would in regulation innings
                    • Home teams should aggressively steal if the game is tied with a runner on second and one out

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                 2. Another thing on bunting and the Babe wanting to sacrifice.

                    Yeah, it’s nonsense. The Babe bunted when he was given the bunt sign – he was just obeying orders I’m sure. However, as soon as Joe McCarthy became manager in 1931, the Babe stopped bunting (literally stopped altogether – he never executed a successful bunt in his last 4 years with the Yankees) and Gehrig barely did it at all. Why? Because Joe McCarthy was smart enough to know that you were generally foolish to take the bat of out of the hands of Ruth or Gehrig.

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           2. Agree; All about ME today. Hi Rocco

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           3. No, it really doesn’t prove that AT ALL (see, I can type in all caps like you do). Like I said, there are times when a bunt is still a good play and increases the odds of victory, and other times when it limits run production and is categorically a stupid play. What I think is true, however, is that most players are not taught how to bunt anymore and that is problem because when it’s a good play, hitters have to know how to execute it.

              And, by the way, while we talk about Babe Ruth, the Babe generally did his own thing, his own way, which was why he was able to change baseball almost all by himself as a slugger who tried to hit home runs rather than just put the ball in play. I would bet money that he sacrificed bunted way, way less than almost every other player.

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     2. Ruth didn’t face pitchers throwing 99+ out of the pen.

        the game has changed a lot. velocity is significantly higher today than it was during Ruth’s career.

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        1. Stop it with facts, nor did he face the best pitchers on the planet every day. Yes its frustrating when we cant score our ghost runner, but lets not compare today’s game to the game of 100+ years ago. Comparing it to 30 years ago has seen drastic changes.

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           1. Eagle. I just saw a headline about the baseball movie of Major League in 89. That was their point. How much baseball has changed in that time. Your timing is perfect.

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120. Romus …….. your story on the guy getting hit in the hot dog line reminds me of the story “Whitey” told about himself. He had the reputation of fouling off a lot of pitches. One game he fouled one off and hit a lady that needed medical assistance to be removed from the stands ……. and he got her again on the way out!

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     1. Skeet…LOL…remember him telling that story to Harry Kalas. Fouled it off twice around the third base dugout.

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        1. Romus – the final part of the story with Richie and the woman that he hit with 2 foul balls was that he became very good friends with the woman and would often speak with her. He maintained a friendship with her until she passed on.

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     2. On that topic. It amazes me how many of these new youth baseball complexes do very little to protect the fans from foul balls going everywhere. Most are in a quad of 4 diamonds and there are foul balls going everywhere. I am amazed at Grand Park 26 diamonds near where I live have to my knowledge never had a serious injury. They have no nets. More of the new ones I have been too in recent years do have some nets above like the netting at MLB games down the lines.

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121. oldruff. A different time. A different baseball game. “There is no giving away one of your 21 or 27 outs in a game today.” Much easier to simply give the game away. Guardians bunted twice in one of games vs Phillies. BTW they won. There is one major difference in the game Ruth, and we played compared to the games kids and MLB players play today. Most young players cannot bunt. No one of the brilliant minds took the time to teach them. Asking someone to do something they have never done against a pitcher throwing 95+ is almost impossible. Ask Johan Rojas. When one does see a bunt, most guys do not have the bat in a proper position anyway. So maybe the logic is why give aways an out because our guy has never been taught to bunt. Makes sense to me. I can tell you for a fact that was not the way Coach Eddie Stanky taught us how to play the game. Forgot. He played back in the time of Ruth. He would have agreed 100% to the adage there was no crying in baseball. Bottom line for me as a player and coach was to try to win the game I was playing that day. Lots of ways to do that.

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     1. Sorry Don, but you have no proof that the reason we don’t see many bunts is that “no one taught them to bunt.” that is pure conjecture and I think that is false. I have a kid in high school and coaches talk all the time about bunting and teach it every practice. both on club team and HS ball. The problem is the stuff at the MLB level is different. not only is it 95+ but it also has unbelievable movement. If anyone wants to know why bunting is down and batting average is down is is 100% because of the velocity is higher now than it ever was:

        https://x.com/TheWARmonger_/status/1810414000104218746

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        1. v1. I respect your opinion. I have seen hundreds of youth games in the past 10 years or so. Very little time is spent today. If the ones your son plays for do that, I applaud them. It is not an Indiana thing. Probably see kids from 12 states or so each summer. Maybe I shall rephrase it is a lost art. I always felt watching these travel teams over the years here in the Midwest that one program stood out way above all the others on basic fundamentals. I always enjoyed watching the Ohio Elite teams play. They had really good players. But they lost some. But for me they always played the game the way it should be played. They did not beat themselves. A better team that day may have beat them. So, I always applauded their program, and I do the one your son is on as well. Good for them. I will stick to my opinion that it is not practiced much by many. I do agree that it is really difficult to bunt a 95+ pitch with movement. No doubt about that. But one who has the basic fundamentals has more success. Biggest thing I notice is bat positioning or really lack thereof. That is the reason so many fails so easily. Plus, it is easier for some naturally. I think it is easier for a lefthanded batter. But I have seen some guys who do well from the right side.

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           1. I am not a proponent of bunting a lot. Someone mentioned that teams maybe did too much in the past. That may be true. I just like to see when the time is right you have someone who can. That is very lacking today. One other thing that drives me nuts is kids swinging on a 3-0 pitch. I have no problem say your team is up a few runs. But I constantly see kids maybe the 8, 9 hitters on the team and they are trailing by a couple runs do that. It is done all the time today. That is on the coaching IMO.

              I have seen probably thousands of baseball games over the years. Told Romus I believe I saw a first this Spring. Grandson team bunted into a triple play. That is really difficult to do. But they did it and cost them the game. Batter popped ball just to the right of the catcher. Runner on 1st was going so throw to 1B for 2. One missed the sign. Runner on 3rd tried to tag and score. Return throw and triple play on ball bunted less that 10 feet from catcher. Catcher got 2 putouts and one assist on the same play. Doubt that has been done very often.

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        2. True…….pitchers’ velo is higher than ever and makes bunting virtually a very difficult task and aspect of hitting….but pitchers throwing from a higher mound from old days had a advantage than from the lower mound as it is today….following the incredibly low scoring in 1968, the rules were changed to reduce the mound to the contemporary 10 inch height.

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           1. Romus. You just made me think of something with this post. On the high mound Gibson looked like he was 10 feet tall. He was really big anyway. My high school years playing varsity and legion ball were 68-71. I wonder if or when college, or high school mounds were lowered. Those days were not like today where you roll out a temporary mound and set it at whatever distance you want. I have a pic from our yearbook in either my junior or senior year on the pitching mound and it seems really high by today’s standards. You are like a walking encyclopedia. You amaze me with your knowledge every day. That is a compliment. My Babe Ruth coach was just like you. A sports junkie. He was a sportswriter in a nearby city. He was the first guy to recruit me for his team. I lived about 15 miles away. They had the only Babe Ruth team in the county so he could do that. One of the neatest things he did all 3 years I played for him was to take a weekend trip to Cincy area and on the Saturday, night take us to a Reds game. He was a huge fan. Those were my first MLB games I attended.

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              1. Don……that sounded like a great time as a kid on a weekend trip to see the Reds….the kids must have loved it. And this guy I know who use to pitch in the 60s/70s always mentions to me that about them lowering the mound from 15 to 10 inches……he did not like it at all. Said the change was not god for him….you adapt or don’t. Oh well…….baseball is considered a very traditional game…..but changes do occur and when they do they generally have an impact for the most part.

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                 1. …….was not good for him…

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                 2. The last game I pitched was August of 71. That was in the semifinals of the state legion tournament. I never pitched again. But Romus I do not remember if the mound was lowered for us or not at that time. I pitched lots of games from 69-71. The picture I have is a high school game and sure the mound is the tall one. Maybe I hurt my shoulder because of the mound being lowered. Kidding. I would have played right in the timeline of where the change may have been made. I know the DH came about mid 70s for college because I would have stayed to hit if it was earlier.

                    He was an incredible sportswriter. This area will never see one as good as he was. He passed a few years ago. It was great for us. I was a poor farm kid. Seeing a major league game was awesome. I know none of us had to buy the tickets. My guess the Babe Ruth did.

                    I am sure going from 15 to 10 inches was drastic. I just do not remember.

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122. No rest for the weary as the Phillies draw Glasnow tonight and a Dodgers team that is going to be hot for revenge.

     Their next day off doesn’t come until Monday 8/12 after a 4 game set with the DBacks who happen to be 8-2 in their L10 games.

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123. Bryce’s performance yesterday, along with Wheeler (honestly I told my son Wheeler was going to pitch a gem but we’d lose 2-1), I feel a lot better about a team that is 5-13 over their past 18. They are our 2 studs. Not sure if people realize how great a pitcher we beat yesterday. Even going to bed Sat night I told myself that come October we all would look back on this time as from some faraway age.

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     1. Eagleeye. Gilbert is really good. Did you hear all the stats T Mac game. He lost giving up 1 run yesterday. Believe T Mac said he had 9 no decisions and in some he game up 0 runs. Think 2 was the most in any of those 9. I agree he is really good, and Wheeler simply outdueled him.

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124. Yes, those were stats several Phillies starters in the past were used to suffer from.

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     1. The Cole Hamels special.

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125. https://x.com/JeffKerrCBS/status/1820413563682312219

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     1. I was actually about to bring this up. Wheeler and Bryce took a lot of the spotlight yesterday for good reason (Schwarbs also with a big game, but he’s been on fire for a while now). And Harper getting right is definitely the most important thing for our offense.

        But Marsh has quietly been going on a tear and he’s seeing lefties better. His K% is likely always gonna be high. But he’s a good hitter, and he’s shown progress with hitting lefties. Resigning him to a platoon player after less than half a season of struggles felt very premature. It took Schwarber 6 seasons to post a positive stat line against lefties, and look at him now.

        Not saying Marsh will ever make lefties wince every time he swings the bat, but he deserves a real chance to continue to his improvements. And that chance should include the opportunity to play through his struggles. Just the same as everyone else on our roster.

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        1. What I don’t or won’t buy into is sitting Marsh because he struggles with lefties. They never sit Schwarber and they never sit Bryce. If you have conviction in the player you let them play through it.

           An occasional night off here and there is fine but the last thing I would want to do to a young player especially one you gave up a lot for is send a no confidence message to them.

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126. DMAR…..”and they never sit Bryce“…assume you mean Bryson Stott not Bryce Harper? If so, agree……he has struggled this season also.

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     1. No I meant Harper. He never gets a day off against lefties unless he’s hurt. But same goes for Stott. They have sat him a bunch against lefties.

        I know they have to get some other guys ABs and that makes the most sense.

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127. Romus. I just looked up the DH for college baseball. 1974. Timing was never my forte. For some reason I thought 1975.

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128. Romus. I am watching Dbacks vs Guardians. Pederson just hit a 2-run home run to put them up 6-5 bottom of 8th. They are going to be a handful for Phillies.

     Couple questions. Announcers talking about White Sox. Is it easier to win 20 in a row or lose 20 in a row? Who holds record for most losses in a row. Last what does IBX mean on Phillies uniforms? I see Cleveland has M that looks like Marathon symbol.

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     1. IBX is International Blue Cross. God awful health insurance company.

        The ’61 Phils hold the record with 23 consecutive losses. The record in the AL is 21 by the ’88 O’s. And only 3 teams in the past 80 years had lost 20 in a row before the Sox joined in.

        It’s easier to lose 20 in a row because, obviously, you can intentionally lose games if you’re so inclined. However, it’s actually more common to win 20 in a row in the MLB because, shockingly, most teams don’t want to lose on purpose.

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129. Dan. Thanks. I knew guys were talking about it one game but I was not sure. They showed the chart. Philly A’s are also on the list. Guys thought harder to lose because somewhere someone pitches a good game.

     Extra innings and dbacks just sacrifice to 3rd. Said it is their 22 of year. So we will see what happens.

     Thanks again on the IBX.

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130. I couldn’t stay awake for last night but this morning saw that Stubbs got another start. If JT is still nursing his knee and is going to need more regular time off why did we not option Stubbs and keep Marchan?

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     1. JT caught all the games in the Mariners is only reason I know. I started watching. Then fell asleep and woke up to see Ohtani hit HR in the 8th. 9th then went quick though Casty did get a hit to start.

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131. Just for discussion. Waiting on the Phillies game I watched the last few innings of the Dbacks vs Guardians. Good back and forth game. Ended 6-6. So, two different approaches in the 10th. Dbacks sacrificed and then hit sac fly to take 7-6 lead. This was off of Clase. So, Guardians come up and Kwan is on 2nd. Dbacks are using one of set up guys because they used Puk and Thompson in the 8th and 9th. But Martinez was only throwing 102. Anyway, Lane Thomas is first batter. No idea where he batted in Nats lineup. But 2nd for Guardians. Guardian announcers say he had no sac bunts for Nats. So mentioned most likely not bunting. Thomas then hits a short fly ball to RF. No advance. But he did hit to right side. He was trying to move runner up. Walk Martinez intentionally. Put winning run on but he could not steal 2nd since it was occupied. So, failure to move him up probably cost Ramirez from batting. He had 2 stolen bases so most likely would not have given the winning run possibly stealing 2nd. In the end made no difference. Naylor and Sharp both struck out leaving Kwan where he started at 2B. Announcers did reference that Dbacks have 22 sac bunts. I would guess but have no idea that may be near the top in MLB. I am not saying one was right or one was wrong. But I do believe getting the runner to 3rd with less than 2 outs gives you a better chance of scoring. Believe Rocco gave the percent in post above.

     Couple other things on Phillies. T Mac mentioned loss last night was the 7th straight game 1 series loss. Hard to see that with all the talent. Also, it is hard to believe, and it has been mentioned the Phillies last 5 wins have all been shutouts. If the opponent scored, they are 14-0 in the last 19 games.

     Finally hope they can at least get a win in LA. Dbacks are going to be a handful in Arizona. They are playing really well right now.

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132. Why is stubbs still on this team, Cause they like him,? I say this now and hope i am wrong, But Aaron Nola contract will haunt them, He isnt a two more like a third, trending to a 4-5, His stuff is going down as fast as wall street , yesterday

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     1. rocco…..you could be correct on Nola down the road……he may end being , like you say, a middle -to-even-a -back-end of the rotation pitcher in the next 2/3 years….being paid well above what he can produce. Have to wait and see.

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        1. I wasn’t a fan of this contract, and I was willing to see him go elsewhere. The Phillies are paying him to be a 3 WAR player and he wasn’t even that the last couple of years. He’ll get close this year which is fine. But with his remaining 6 years, I’m projecting (and this is being optimistic) around 12 WAR. And yes, that comes out to 2 WAR per season. I’ve always said that teams would be lucky if they get what they paid for their FA contracts. And unfortunately, most FA contracts end in disaster.

           We haven’t even talked about Trea’s contract. And the Phillies are paying him to be a 4 WAR player. You can do the math.

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           1. Well, let’s start with a frustrating given with DD – he always overpays free agents, both in AAV and years. And his tendency to do so, catches up with his teams when DD is long gone and riding out into the sunset. He’s done that here. It bothers me. It’s always bothered me.

              Anyway, Nola does have a troubling tendency to often have a bad inning that can ruin a game. But we are being a little hard on him. He’s 11-5 with a 3.54 ERA. He’s somewhere between a 2/3. I think there’s more than decent chance of him pitching to his contract because he’s never been about elite velocity. I also note that, while we are frustrated that he hasn’t become what we hoped he could be, part way through his age 31 season he has about 34 WAR. That’s really good. But I note the concerns.

              Also, agree complete that Stubbs shouldn’t be on the roster now. Marchan is the superior player and I don’t think it’s very close.

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              1. I’ve always believed that Nola was a 2/3. He never had the premium velocity to be a 1/2.

                 There is no doubt that Nola has been one of the best Phillies draft picks in the last decade. And the Phillies got good value for him, even with his team friendly deal. But once he signed that FA contract, his value resets and his value should be based solely on his FA contract. And for now, it’s barely ok. Next year or 2 years from now, it may be worse.

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              2. It does seem frequently Nola has that one bad inning. It used to be around the 5th or 6th inning it seemed. But for some reason it happens.

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              3. Agree on Marchan and Dombrowski…now is the time for him Marchan, and for Dave D, after his departure from a a team, it is like a nuclear reactor disaster cleanup. Harper, Turner, Nola and Wheeler will be around by then and hopefully can stymie a complete meltdown. Do not want to see a 2012 thru 2021 era of abysmal and mediocrity baseball again.

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                 1. That’s why you can’t pay everybody. That’s why you have to keep your elite prospects. Their low cost will offset the high price FAs.

                    So this what the Phillies will need to do when it’s time:

                    1> Replace JT with Marchan until Tait is ready.

                    2> Replace Suarez with Painter.

                    3> Let Bohm walk, move Trea to 3B and play Caba/Miller

                    4> Replace Castellanos with Rincones

                    The only person I would be willing to give a 1 year extension to is Schwarber. He’s still productive. But the Phillies have a number of DH/1B types in the minors like Carson Taylor, Keaton Anthony.

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                 2. Here are my replies:

                    1. Agree Marchan is the near term back-up and future starter, at least for a few seasons.
                    2. Don’t agree on Ranger. You know when things started going sideways for this team? It was when Ranger started to get hurt and struggled. It wasn’t all because of Ranger, but his absence was a big part of it. He’s a keeper and totally clutch in the playoffs. I expect him to bounce back this year in a big way. If they don’t sign Ranger, trust me, they’ll regret it.
                    3. Get the hell rid of Castellanos and Walker. Buy out portions of the contracts. They are weighing this team down. Not sure if Rincones will be good enough to replace Casty, but they may have to rent a bat for a year or two until they know. Really bad DD contracts. Horrible.
                    4. Agree that Bohm will probably not be worth signing, but you can wait a year or two before you make that decision. I ride that contract to the very end.

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                 3. Yes…that is a very sensible plan. The hope is that those top tier prospects do come around. If the Phillies are lucky and fortunate to win a WS, then many of those moves can be made without hesitation…..Dombrowski may not be here after that anyways since he accomplished what he was hired to do. As for Bohm…I would trade him a year prior to his free agency and see if they can get more top prospects…that would be after next season.

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        2. Rocco, Romus & Catch ……….have you three thought out the full ramifications of replacing Stubbs?

           You lose the “court jester”, the clubhouse comedian, the baptizer in coverhalls, the merry elf, the only guy on the team that can teach Rojas to bunt (why is it guys that hit .194 can bunt?) and last but not least the TGIL* closer ….. and replace him with a guy who can make an offensive contribution and is as serious about the game as you can get.

           *TGIL THIS GAME IS LOST

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           1. Skeet…..I do think Marchan is the backup next season anyways. I suppose moving Stubbs out now with 7 weeks left in the season is a little premature and probably disrupts some of that locker room chemistry.

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     2. Rocco. Most long-term deals come back to bite you. Very few are winners for both. Length seemed really long to me as well.

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133. This team is borderline unwatchable right now. I’m kinda glad they are playing out west and the start times coincide with my bed time. Hopefully they’ll be on an upswing by the time they get back home next Tuesday.

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     1. Yes agree…unwatchable then throw in the fact umpiring seems to come up short at the most critical….ie Marsh, 3-1 count, two outs, runners at first and second, Phillies trailing late, LHP throws pitch high inside at least an inch to an inch and a half off the plate…ump calls it a strike, Marsh then precedes to swing and miss on the next low and away breaking ball pitch….instead of the walk and bases loaded….zilch. I cannot watch a game where home plate umps get strikes and balls incorrect.

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        1. That was egregious. The Mariners game was even more outrageous. Calling two balls on Harper strikes and then not calling strikes on the Mariners’ batters with balls clearly out of the zone. It literally changed the outcome of the game. Honestly, I wouldn’t mind at all if MLB went to automated balls and strikes; in fact, I’d prefer it.

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           1. I meant to say calling two strikes on balls to Harper. Just made me so angry, especially coupled with the non-calls against Estevez.

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           2. catch. Your point is interesting. Do you really think they help one team over the other? Most nights if home plate guy is bad, he is BAD for both teams. I wonder if there is something like Romus says how the percentages one way or the other fall. Maybe that is why Angel Hernandez retired. The machine was going crazy. I think without a doubt this is the worst group I have seen.

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              1. As a general rule, probably not, but the other night the Phillies were royally screwed. I recall hearing that there were 21 missed ball/strike calls that game and 13 went against the Phillies.

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                 1. 13 to 8 is significant. More importantly is when they occur. Some do not matter much but some are just killers to the inning.

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        2. Write-in-campaign to Rob Manfred & pertinent parties.

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           1. Skeet…there is a site out there on the internet somewhere that grades every non-batted pitch in a game and how the ump did on that call.

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              1. I don’t know if Umpire Auditor is the one you were referring too, but I went in and saw the game against the Mariners where we walked in the winning run. The umpire had 21 missed calls and 13 of them were against us.

                 Also, showed the Yankees game where the umpire ejected Boone and then subsequently the hitting coach after bad calls continued.

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                 1. That’s one of them. Umpire Scorecard also does it and gives a useful infographic to summarize the night. The Mariners game had a run favor of over 1 in the Mariners’ favor. Which is absolutely awful, especially when the game was decided by 1 run.

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              2. Romus. How do you know all of this stuff? We could do it ourselves each game if we liked. I just get tired of seeing 2 or 3 pitches missed per batter. You were correct that if makes a major difference in the at bat. The difference in the ball strike count is a major factor to the at bat. 2-1 or 1-2 is like day or night for the hitter.

                 Not only the home plate guy but lots of calls are missed by the base umpires as well. I do not remember so many calls overturned in the past and probably a few more that should have been, but most are corrected unless you are out of challenges. Some are not really that close.

                 I am for the robot umps. Would it only be balls and strikes? Or would it be everything at all bases?

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        3. Romus. I see lots of games over the year. I think MLB umps are getting worse instead of better. I get several games a night. These guys miss pitches by a lot on many occasions. These are supposed to be the best. I think some of the guys who I see in the Summer do a better job. At least more consistent. Guys are glaring at these guys every night. I am ok with a borderline call going one way or the other. But not 2 or 3 pitches missed per batter which happens way too often.

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           1. Being an umpire is not easy especially with the movement some pitches have. At this point, it’s inevitable that we either move to a full robot ump or we have ball/strike challenges in the next few years.

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              1. I get the point on movement. But these guys miss many straight fastballs with little or no movement. I am all in for the robot ump. I mean they have pitch com where the pitcher is always needing to adjust his hat with it. I have never seen it work. How do the pitcher and batter know what the pitch is if there is no swing. Is there still an umpire behind the catcher and he is like the pitch com guy?

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           2. I’m also in favor of going to auto balls and strikes. I do however feel that if they removed the strike zone box(which doesn’t appear to ever move regardless of who is in the batters box) on the broadcast, I’m not sure we the people would be so upset with the umpiring.

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              1. So you think the TV box is the same size for both Aaron Judge and Jose Altuve?

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                 1. No Romus. T Mac and Kruk were talking about that something was messed up during the series. It should adjust to the player. Not one size fits all like a 10ft basketball goal. Romus did you see that I looked up the DH for college and it was 74? 2 1/2 years late for me. I have not looked up the mound for high school and college yet.

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                 2. @Don

                    They were saying something was wrong with the ump’s view of the zone because he was consistently missing strikes in the zone.

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                 3. Pk….DH come to the AL in ’73….Yankees Ron Blomberg was the first DH I believe.

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                 4. I don’t believe it changes at all. Or if it does it’s minimal. The box on the screen is placed there by the broadcast I believe. I could be wrong. But I don’t trust Comcast or anyone else to get it right. I just don’t believe that umpires have all of a sudden become so inept. I still want the autoump though.

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134. I. Wonder, if they used automatic ump Would it be a strike if only a tip of the ball touches. The line ?

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     1. rocco….simply, yes..it hit the ‘black’ as they say. Maybe they need to widen the front edge of the plate a little more than from 17″…….they seem to like to change everything else in the game.

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     2. Good question Rocco. Probably yes as Romus concurs. That is kind of the way the TV guys call it. But I really do not know. Romus. Is there still a ump behind the catcher if robot making call?

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        1. Don…yes there is still an ump in ABS….and there are a limited amount of challenges allowed from what I understand……though cannot see a batter making the call for the challenge, so…

           However under the ABS challenge system the home-plate umpire calls balls and strikes as usual, and teams have a limited number of balls and strikes they can ask to be reviewed by the Hawk-Eye system in any given game. Teams retain the challenge if they are successful. So umps can be challenged on their calls….which I think is a better alternative than ABS alone.

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135. Former Phils minor league OF making his MLB debut as a pitcher

     https://x.com/mlbtraderumors/status/1820895454193725826

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136. Dan. I see. I just remember them saying stuff when Judge was batting. Confusing why he had issues only or at least the most with Judge. Interesting.

     Romus. That is interesting on the ABS. Sounds almost the same as on calls now. To me that does not make sense. So, will teams have a time to check a call or how will it work? So, you still have ump, but he is not really official on all ball strike calls. How can they limit you if they have a guy like the Phillies did a couple weeks ago that was so bad? He would go through the challenge limit in the 1st inning.

     Romus. I knew 73 for AL. I have thought of interesting mound thing later. Got to get these umps figured out first. LOL

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137. Romus. I have a question that anyone who knows can answer. Richie referenced umps not becoming so inept. But MLB takes all of this Stat Cast as gospel. Distance, launch angle, hard hit speed, etc. Who provides the pitches we see that they show where they cross home plate either in the zone or outside of the zone? Why would that not be considered just as actual as any of the other criteria. I am not nearly as smart as some of you are on all of this analytical stuff. I would think the PA guy could watch and say strike 1, ball 1, etc. Put a really good robot with good vision down the line and first and third and he can call check swings or not a check swing. I am only kidding. I am thinking that they may be more inept than ever before.

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     1. There are some bad umpires but I actually think they are better than ever. The “box” makes it easier to see if every pitch is a ball/strike so the scrutiny is greater but I remember watching guys like Glavine live getting strikes called that were consistently outside.

        umpires would call pitches based on where the catcher setup and if the pitcher hit the glove or not. Guys like Eric Gregg were so bad it became a running joke when they were behind the plate.

        Add in the increased velocity and movement and calling pitches is harder then ever.

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     2. The reason MLB backs Statcast is partially because they go back after games are completed and correct any mistakes that they might have made live. The strikezone shown on broadcast isn’t done by Statcast, and it ISN’T 100% accurate. But it also isn’t the same for every player. They adjust it for everyone, but it’s not gospel. However, if a pitch misses badly, it will highlight that just fine. And that’s what was happening with Judge; the umpire was missing BADLY.

        I think on the whole, umpires are better than ever. The problem is that we have the ability to be 99.9% accurate, but we’re settling for 94%. And sometimes, that 5.9% difference hits at the most important parts of the game.

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        1. Dan. Those are really good points that you make. You always hear the announcers or guys on MLB Tonight mention that this guy has the farthest HR, or this guy has the hardest exit velocity on a batter ball. Saw them say the Cincy guy HRs other night traveled 839 feet combined. So that makes sense if they go back and look. I had no idea who did the balls and strikes we see on the screen. It only makes sense that the strike zone for Altuve and Judge are not the same.

           I am not sure on the umpires being better. But I do agree that it easier today to see when they are wrong. Back in the day there were many umpires who were not really that great. But most guys knew that so and so were bad but usually consistently bad. I think that is what upsets the batters today are the consistency of the calls. Reason why I have always told my grandson to try avoiding putting you at bat with 2 strikes into the hands of the umpire. One pitch being a ball and the next a strike in the same spot I think is the main gripe.

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        2. For me it would be pretty simple. What can be measured can be improved. Those that are really good at calling balls and strikes get the plate. Those that are not are put on the bases.

           That said I know it is an intense and grueling job to be in that plate gear night after night but I think something could be figured out.

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           1. dmar. That is an interesting thought. I am sure there are many issues with it. $$$s would be my first thought. But I see that in the travel ball circuit where one guy does HP at least most of the games. Not sure I have ever seen one do it the whole day. Since the umps are graded on each game maybe you could put 2 of the top ones who grade out on a crew. They rotate and the others do the bases. I am sure the union would not be big fans of your idea. But I like the concept. There is no doubt that all guys on a crew now are not equal calling balls and strikes. That is pretty well known.

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138. Does anyone know if there are images of the strike zone box for random players (different sizes, stances) on line?

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139. Some good things from last night. Phillies have chance to win series. They hold tie breaker now with Dodgers for playoffs if they tie. Ended the 5-game winning streak requiring a shutout to prevail. That is a good sign. It was disappointing to see the Dodger reliever injured only 8 pitches into his season. I never want to see injuries for anyone.

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140. Gregory Soto’s last four outings

     1 IP, 3 ER against Yanks as a Philly

     .1 IP, 4 ER against Clev

     .2 IP, 0 ER but gave up 2 hits

     .1 IP, 4 ER against Jays

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     1. I watched some of his meltdown last night. I was impressed with Elias rebuild of that franchise now he has a large contingent of failed Phillies BP arms.

        What was he thinking…

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        1. Getting two prospects for Soto, who may have been dfa’d if we couldn’t find a taker, seems like a nice little move by the FO.

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           1. This DD’s sweet spot – the under-the-radar move that nets good young players. I couldn’t believe the trade when they pulled it off – it was a great trade. They got rid of a poor performer on a bad contract and picked up some good young talent. No downside. None. And tons of upside.

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              1. Catch. I agree. Soto and Dominguez and Kimbrel for me were the most disappointing BP guys for Phillies last 2 seasons. You could throw Brogdon in as well, but he was never there a long period. Absolutely amazing those 3 are now on the same team again. It will be difficult for the O’s to score enough runs to overcome these guys. Some of the talent guys are pretty high on one of the prospects. Saw it mentioned they felt he might have a chance to the majors sometime next year. Time will tell on that.

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                 1. Teams will always take a chance on somebody who throws hard. The problem with Soto is that he doesn’t know where it’s going most of the time.

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        2. dmar. It is obvious that he was not watching MLB Extra Innings. He would have noticed. Best money I spend yearly. Around $160.

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           1. LOL

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141. Romus do you think Don can give us a inning? Phillips is going to get rocked. He isn’t a big league starter. .Don fly out now.

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     1. Rocco. An inning has been out since August of 71. I might be able to do as well as some of the first pitch of the game people I have seen. I throw enough with grandkids I could most likely get it 60 feet before the pain sets in. I am so glad to see you back. I thought you were on a cruise to Gilligan’s Island.

        I like Philiips. I like his demeanor on the mound. It is better for me than Mercado was at this time. I hope he does well. I am dreading the 4 games vs the Dbacks. I watched them come back and beat both the Pirates and Guardians in the late innings. They definitely have some BP guys. I looked at the standings today and Padres and Dbacks have passed Braves in WC. Braves are 6th. Mets and Cards are right behind them. Pirates have given a couple games away like the Phillies did but they are a 4 or 5 game winning streak from contention. Right now, it appears it will be 8 teams for 6 spots in NL. Also, Padres or Dbacks may catch Dodgers. They are knocking on the back door now.

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142. Just for fun. Bold prediction time with about two thirds of the season gone. Pick the 12 playoff teams. Looked at standing today and appears 8 teams for 6 in both leagues. That may change but looks that way on August 7.

     My picks. NL Division. Philly, SD. Milwaukee. WC. LA, AZ, and NYM. Just the teams no order.

     My picks. AL Division. NYY, CLE, SEA. WC BAL, MINN, KC. Again, just teams.

     I know no Braves or Astros. I just think the Mets and Seattle are better.

     I know some of you are way better at this than I probably am. I wrote mine down so I can remember my picks. If anyone wants to make them have fun.

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     1. Don….you may right about the Los Bravos…..heard their bullpen usage so far this season is second highest in the majors……the last 7 weeks could be BP disaster for them…add to that Strider gone, Fried struggling a bit and the advance age and wear and tear of Sale and Morton, and after last night Elder’s outing, they may have to regroup for next season

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        1. Romus if the new ABS goes according to size. You could be another Eddie Gardel.

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           1. Romus and Rocco. You two need to make your predictions. I almost reference you guys but did not want to put too much pressure on you. LOL

              I think Mets do move ahead of Braves. But it seems every time they take 2 steps forward, they take 3 steps back. I do think only one of them make it. I believe Pads and Dbacks push them to 6.

              Hoping Phillies may get a slight break today. Dbacks playing 2 in Cleveland and then having to travel. Plus, may help Phillies miss one of their main guys. Gallen pitched Monday so he will be one for Phillies.

              Rocco. Who is Eddie Gardel? It is usually Romus who comes up with names I have never heard before.

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              1. Eddie Gaedel was a very short ball player (3′ 7″) for the St. Louis Browns in August of 1951. If I remember correctly, he only had one AB and it was a BB

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              2. Don….my teams are virtually same as your but I have the Stros in as the WC and Royals missing out.

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              3. Don53 – he is the midget who played in an mlb game in 1951 – EDDIE GAEDEL for the St Louis Browns – he was 3 feet 7 inch tall.

                 Brought to mlb by Bill Veek

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                 1. I have seen video of that. I had no idea the name of the guy. Thanks. His circus side show.

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        2. You can add Lopez to the injured list as well as being a traditional reliever turned into starter. Never mind the other injuries to the OF.

           Frankly the team that scares me is Zona – I think they are better than last year because the bullpen is better and if they get Walker back they will hit again. Judging from what I’ve seen of the Otanis I don’t think they are any better than Snakes and the desert group could still overtake the Dodgers. Never mind the world’s greatest bullpen in San Diego. Those teams have to play one another eventually.

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           1. Agree….the way it is shaping up with injuries and the schedule, those DBacks could overtake both the Dodgers and Padres.

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              1. Dbacks winning 5-2 bottom of 8th in game 1. They look good. Gose just pitched an inning for Guardians. He looked fairly heavy. Wasn’t he an outfielder for Phillies? Not sure I ever saw him.

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                 1. Anthony Gose has been around FOREVER. I remember him being drafted while I was sitting at my son’s little game. Said son is now an established actuary in his late 20s. Like I said, it’s been a long time.

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           2. I’ll add the Padres to a team that could be a big problem in a short series.

              Nothing in the central worries me.

              The Dodgers especially when Betts comes back would be an all out brawl.

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     2. American – Balt; Cleve; Houston. WC- NYY;Boston;Minn

        National – PHL; Milwaukee; SD. WC – LAD; Ariz; Pitt

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143. As it turns out – AZ plays Dodgers at home 4 more times

     SD plays at Dodgers for 3 more games

     Both teams have 6 games with SF – home / away – so how they both handle the Giants may determine the winner.

     AZ has to play Milwaukee 7 more times

     Both teams only have 3 games with each other / at AZ

     Both teams play Houston 3 games at home

     Interesting ?

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144. Perdomo, Carrol, and Marte all have HRs. Account for all 7 runs in game 1. 7-3 now. I can see both sliding by Dodgers. Announcers just said entering today Guardians one of two team not to lose 4 straight. That is in jeopardy if they lose both today. Dbacks just look better. They have offense, defense and pitching right now. Those get you wins. I was impressed other night when Pirates came back to take lead late and they scored 2 in 9th to win.

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145. 7-3 final. Sewald struggled in 9th. But he has been replaced as closer. Dbacks have won 17 of 22 and they are on a road trip. Maybe they will cool off on flight home tonight. Hmm.

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146. Romus. Mason Miller just put an end to the White Sox winning streak at 1. That is almost unfair. Dbacks winning again 4-3 after 6. Maybe they will be tired. Josh Bell has 2 HRs in this game. Announcers said he has already had 2 multi home run games since arriving. He and Chisholm liked getting out of Miami.

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     1. I saw where Ketel Marte is a 6WAR player this season…Phillies need to keep him under control this weekend…..not sure if Walker comes off the IL. Their starters are all RHPs except Montgomery…..so Harper, Marsh and Schwarber need to do their thing.

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        1. ….and Stott.

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           1. Romus. I did not see who started either game. Tuned in around the 6th inning and BP guys were in. There BP guys are good. If Phillies can gain a split, I would be thrilled right now.

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147. Dbacks sweep Guardians. Martinez throws 102 but kind of wild. Hit 9 HRs in 3 games. Guardians’ downfall was walks before the HRs. All 3 in first game followed walks.

     There is a saying somewhere that says “it’s not who you play but when you play them. Phillies may not have lucked out on the when. Dbacks are 18-5 in last 23 games. Hoping Phillies can get a win tonight. I do not think any will be easy in Zona.

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148. With another series win against the Dodgers I’ll take a split with AZ and be happy.

     Not sure what is going on with BH but if he is still hurt or nursing that left hamstring they should sit him. Sept-Oct more important than early August.

     Also that obstruction call at 3B last night was absurd. If that had be made against us I would have been livid. Surely it should be a reviewable call.

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     1. Agree….Bohm was a dead duck. Rarely if ever see any call like that. Cannot understand why the umps cannot huddle up and discuss controversial calls. It is about getting the calls correct.

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        1. I cannot believe they called Bohm safe – if I was a Dodgers fan, I would have been livid.

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149. Because they highlighted the rule that was always on the books this season, he blocked his path to the base; inadvertently but Hunter W is a veteran ump and made the correct call. We have been screwed by umps for weeks on non called 3 strike calls. Ill take it

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     1. There is a difference between inadvertent and intentional. As it says in the rule….existing Rule 6.00(h) awards the base to the runner when the fielder is ruled to have impeded the runner’s progress while not in possession of the ball and not in the act of fielding the ball. The rule leaves it up to the judgment of the umpire as to whether a fielder is in the act of fielding the ball. So under Hunter W judgement it was an intentional impediment. It could have gone either way….Roberst did not see it that way.

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        1. Yeah I don’t know about that Eagle. Rojas was getting to the bag to field the ball and make the tag. I think he has every right to the bag as the base runner provided he doesn’t drop the knee in front of the bag he should be good. IMO.

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           1. The problem is he was receiving a throw, not fielding a ball. Since the other fielder has control of where he’s throwing to, Rojas has no need to run in Bohm’s path to get in position. Had he gone directly to the bag and set up to receive a throw without blocking the bag, that’d be fair game. But he ran in Bohm’s path and even slowed down enough that Bohm had to alter his path to the bag to avoid collision.

              I’m not saying I necessarily agree with the rule. But the reason it’s in place that way is because what if Bohm HADN’T altered his path? What if he had just slid full force into Rojas’ ankle while he was awkwardly stumbling toward the bag? That would almost guarantee a serious injury. Would the Dodgers be okay with a broken ankle for their guy just for an out? Because the Mets STILL won’t let go of Tejada’s injury even though Utley’s slide was perfectly legal at the time.

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        2. Romus. I have a new solution to the Phillies situation. I have not watched any of the last two nights even being up around midnight to let my old dog out. 2 Ws for the Phillies.

           So I just read the article on the play. They had the video. I did not watch the play. Just my take. Since it was a bunt that is really a difficult play to make in the first place. I did not see where Rojas was, but he had to move quite a bit. It is kind of like the pitcher covering home on a wild pitch. Very unlikely there was any intent on his part to block the base. He has to find the base, catch the throw, and make the tag. I am sure it has been called on a pitcher before, but I am not sure I have seen one. Bottom line is this. Phillies have got hosed on calls over the course of the season. It is nice to see a return of those. Plus, really nice that Scharbomb really made them pay.

           Dbacks are nipping at their heels now. Like someone else I mentioned I will be fine if Phillies can go 2-2 this weekend.

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150. Saying Schwarbers 3 HRs from the leadoff spot are the first in Philly since 1900. That is a few days.

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     1. Understand rocco was at the Baker Bowl to see it that day!

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        1. Romus. Just seeing the Brewers converted both 2-point conversions on their 2 TDs today. 16-7. Guessing Bravos may have used most of their BP guys today.

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           1. Yes….even used a new kid making MLB debut…..I think they are cooked…Charlie Morton is cooked, worst game for him. I think after the Mets win today to take over second that will be it for the Braves…they go on a 10 game West Coast trip vs non-playoff teams…Rox, As and Giants…if they do not get 6 or 7 wins then they will need to prepare for 2025. My worry are the Mets…..they seem to have found life and have mo on their side right now.

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              1. I actually felt when they jumped ahead on Friday a week or so ago it would be the rear view for Braves. Then Mets lost next 2. Seems they are always stepping on themselves. Right now, the team’s most concerning to me are Dbacks and Padres. There bullpens are deep and hard throwing. Dodgers pitching is limping. Brewers could be dangerous.

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     2. Yeah, Schwarbs is an oddity for a leadoff hitter.

        JRoll managed 2 HRs in a game he led off 8 times, as far as I can tell. But he could never quite get over that hump for the third one. I think he’s probably the most power we had in the leadoff outside of Kyle since the rest of our history (and most of baseball’s) was just putting the faster guy on the team at 1.

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        1. I knew Jimmy hit some multi HRs. Was not aware of 8. I just saw highlight like 25 times on CBS of play at 3B. For me Phillies got a huge break. I agree with Roberts. There is no way it can be called interference. Both are on the move. Bohm had a path to 3B. Ump was in good position. Can the umps get together on a play like that and talk it over? Like I mentioned before seeing it sounded like a play at home with a pitcher trying to cover and catch and tag the runner all at one time. He definitely did not block the bag like you used to see 2B do. Phillies will take it and move on. I kind of like the idea of Marsh bunting. Making the 3B make a choice. Probably not the same choice made if in the 10th inning. He probably takes the out.

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151. That is unbelievable. I thought Rocco was still on Gilligan’s Island at that time. I have a question for you. I look at the standings it seems like every day now. These 2 wins have given the Phillies some breathing room unlike the Dodgers. Pads and Dbacks are breathing heavy on them. You mentioned you do not think KC makes playoffs. On the side of standings list odds for division, playoffs, wc etc. KC only had 30% odds to make playoffs. Atlanta and Houston are at 70 and 68%. Mets are only at 52. Those make no sense me. KC is only a half game behind Twins. What do you know in your crystal ball that we commoners do not know?

     Anyway, I am going to be a team player again this evening and not watch Phillies hoping for 3 wins in a row. If Phillies keep winning my $$s spent for MLB Extra Innings becomes mute. But I can watch all the early games. I just do the 8-screen view then.

     The play at 3B last night made me think of something I taught my grandson at the end of his high school season. Last home game against the team that has the Bulls kid who had TJ as a freshman and now is pitching both left and right-handed there was a ball hit to grandson who plays SS for high school when not pitching. They had a freshman playing 3B. He goes after the ball and the runner on 2nd advances to 3B like Bohm. Grandson fields ball in the hole and would have had play on runner. But the freshman stands in no man’s land. So, I tell my grandson you have to teach him on that play he has to go 3B. So, he texts me and says Pappy I told him. In each Sectional game and the lone regional game, they had that play occur one time in each. The 3B went to the bag and they got an out each time. My only point is kids do not know everything and need to be taught the right thing to do. I always coached my kids to anticipate rather than react. Sounds like the Dodgers played it the proper way but the Phillies this time got the lucky break. That happens.

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     1. Don…in a nutshell with Royals…at Minn, at Houston, at Clev , Phillies, at Cin..then Houston and Minny at home…and that is in the next three and half weeks..it is a gauntlet of play-off teams.

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        1. I figured it had to be schedule. But KC is good. Mets must have a more difficult schedule than Braves. I noted today they have already played 36 division games. Phillies and Braves around 25. What do you play? 13 against each? 11 each?

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           1. 13 in division.

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152. Believe Phillies are 15-10. So, they have 27 games left. That may be beneficial in September.

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153. Romus. I may be the good luck charm for the Phillies. 3 for 3 in Ws. You will have to be my highlight reel. Good start to the 4-game series. Go Phillies.

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154. i really hate Nola contract.

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     1. Rocco ……… it might not weather well, but the way these guys hit with people on base, I’m not sure it matters.

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        1. Agree. Opposing pitchers light up when they see the current lineup. Basically, Phillies are asking Schwarber, Harper and Bohm to have a great game every night for a chance to win. There are lots of consistent outs in the lineup nightly. Bottom line Phillies win when one or more of those 3 have great games.

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     2. You can’t blame Nola for tonight. The HR to Marte is on him, but the second run scored on an error, and the last two scored because our right fielder has the defensive acumen of a 52 year old, out of shape beer leaguer. I’m pretty sure if he just didn’t go for it, Rojas could have had it, and then the inning is over before McCarthy gets a chance to hit.

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        1. Dan. T Mac and Rueben mentioned that Zona has not been a good place for Nola. But he was not awful. BP trailing only 4-1. Yikes. Seems to me Phillies BP guys always give up runs and Phillies never score on other team BP guys. Also, Nola should have had at least 3 more wins. He has left games recently with a 2 or 3 run lead fairly late and BP lost all of those games. The guy who should have around 20 wins now is Wheeler. Maybe Romus can look it up, but he has pitched really well many times to either get a no decision like other night or loss where he got no run support. I am not sure the number of games, but it is several.

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     3. rocco…..agree on the contract, does look worrisome, just not 4/5 years from now but starting next season. Somehow some way he needs to reinvent something in his arsenal. He could slip down to a mid- to – end of rotation starter and he is getting overpaid —AAV—at that point.

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        1. Hope I am wrong because I want the Phillies to win the WS as much as anyone. But I can see this team being knocked very similar to how the Dodgers were last season. Going into the sunset very quietly. Again, home I am wrong. Romus looks like you may get the 4 wins you predicted correct. At least 4 is better than none. I do not think the Phillies match up well with either Arizona or San Diego. Nola. I was really surprised they went 7 years. 4 would have been max for me. That may be too long. The problem for me is Nola pitches the same each game. Batters have for the most part figured that out.

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           1. Correct Don……he pitches the same and after 2 ABs the batters are on to it. He needs to come up with another pitch…perhaps a split finger. Right now his usage is:….2024…FB-26%…Sinker-21%…Cut-10%..Curve-32%…Change-12%……add in a splitter as an out pitch.

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              1. The sinker is actually his 2Smr that has horizontal side movement….comes in on a LHB hip and then moves in over the plate.

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                 1. Romus. You have way too many %’s up there for me. Are you really a robot like the gal on Discover ad asks? LOL. I have watched him since LSU. It seems I can guess on TV from the count what he is going to throw. If I can do that hitters who have all kind of data like you have can figure it out as well. One other really big factor even though he gets lots of Ks he does not throw the ball past guys on a regular basis. I think they said he was from 93 to 76 last night. Something like that.

                    Romus. I feel really bad. I cheated the last 2 nights. I did not turn on any of the 3 games they won. But I like to watch Wheeler pitch. He has the game figured out. So, I turned it on Friday night and watched till middle of the 5th inning when the Phillies trailed 2-0 and had a robust double by Bohm as there only hit. The Dback kid was just throwing strike after strike and even Rueben said what are the hitters doing not hitting him. He was like around 85 to 90 percent strikes. All 16 in the first 5 innings first pitches were strikes. Probably 90% of those were fastballs. It was not like he was fooling guys. So, Phillies actually won 2-1 in part of game I turned off. So, did Hoffman just lay one in there to the rookie for game winner? Sounds that way. Last night I turned it off at 4-1 when Marte came in. So maybe I leave it off today.

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155. If the Phils make the playoffs as they should, I don’t feel good about Nola starting in any game #2. Too often he’s the second best starter in games he’s in.

     I very much regret the 7-year extension Dombrowski gave Nola. It has the potential of being the worst contract since Ryan Howard’s last. Nola will be expensive, untradeable and lingering for far too long. They paid him for the pitcher he was pre-2023 and he ain’t that.

     Before recently, I thought pitching would see this team through the inconsistencies of the bats. But the pitching staff doesn’t show on the field the way they look on paper, 6 teams will play in the NL post-season and there are only 7 NL teams competing. So the Phils have good odds to make the play-offs. But it’s a crap shoot whether the Phils make it out of the NLDS in which there will be a different kind of hell to be paid.

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     1. Philles yesterday had 99.9 percent for playoffs. But I agree on length. This is becoming an all or nothing team. I think really 9 at this moment. Do not think you can discount Giants, Cards, Mets and maybe Braves. It may be possible that NL West has 4 of the 6 teams. Giants are right there now. I really think it is 4 teams vying for 1 spot. Dbacks and Pads are almost sure things now. One may be West winner.

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156. Gallen threw 4.1 innings last night before getting pulled. He threw 87 pitches in those 4.1 innings. He’s credited with 55 strikes but that doesn’t tell the story. Only 29 of those 87 pitches were actually in the strike zone. This issue will undoubtedly return at some point during the playoffs. DD made a point last fall after we were eliminated that the team needed to do a better job with not chasing. I don’t see any difference between last years team and this one. He brought in Hays who’s never seen a pitch he didn’t want to swing at. They should have a free giveaway at the park whenever Turner works a walk. Long has to shoulder some of the blame in that when we stop hitting, the entire team stops hitting. They all expand the strike zone and become super aggressive. It’s painful to watch. Sorry for the rant.

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     1. Rich. In the first 2 innings T Mac noted that he had already thrown 14 or 15 knuckle curves. Very few were in the strike zone. But no problem for Phillies to go after them. One reason they may have pulled him was he went I think 2 outs in the 8th last game vs Guardians. Not sure how many pitches. But they brought in Puk for at least one out. Might have been 2. But they came back and won in 10.

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157. Yes Don. Also, there are some people(not on this site I don’t believe) that have totally washed their hands of Marsh and Stott. I’m a big fan of both and firmly believe that they will be able to learn from this years failures. However, having them both struggle as they have has had a huge impact on our lineup as a whole. I’m sure, like myself, we’ve all seen players have down years or regress to some extent. It’s just a difficult game. If neither of them are able to find their way and remain the players that they currently are this may be a short run moving forward.

     Side note – I wanted to talk about Stevenson and Kennedy getting a looksy by the big club for a couple weeks but was afraid that I would get laughed at. I never saw either play but their numbers at AAA were strong in regards to taking walks and OBP.

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     1. Rich. Good points. Baseball is really hard. Even the absolute best fails more than they succeed. It is really difficult for both to struggle like they have. But some years you just have a bad year. Carrol has struggled for Dbacks. Biggio for Blue Jays. I am sure many more. Hopefully they rebound. Schwarber, Harper and Bohm have to have some help. No doubt about that or playoffs will be very short lived.

        I got on just to see if Phillies can get the 1 spot who they would like to see fall in the 4 vs 5 pairing. As of today, it is Pads, Dbacks and Braves. Mets are only half a game back; Giants have gone 8-2 since deadline are only 1 and a half back and Cards another game back. Cubs are getting into the picture. They too have gone 8-2 in last 10 games, and they have an easy schedule. Mets have a difficult one. Cards the most. I think Padres and Dbacks are a lock. So, one of them will be either 4 or 5 or maybe in that. I think one of them overtakes the Dodgers. So that might kick the Dodgers into the 4-5. I think those other 5 teams are playing for that 6th spot. I do not like the Phillies vs either the Dbacks or Padres in a best of 5.

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158. Well this game is a disaster. The icing on the cake. Turner sees 5 pitches and not one is in the strike zone. Bubkis. I’m not sure I wouldn’t dangle Sanchez in the offseason. Has a hard time not putting people on base as is evident by his whip. Born in Philly, die in Philly and suffer all along the way.

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     1. Rich. Hoosier guy here. But still disappointing. I still have not got over games 6 and 7 in NLCS last Fall. WS was on a platter, and they knocked it off the table. Afraid even if they limp in, we could see that team again and same results but quicker this time.

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159. D’backs are playing like a team playing for big contracts. Phils look like a team playing with big contracts. D’backs remind neif hungry tigers. Phils remind me of well fed pussy cats.

     D’backs are without Moreno, Walker, Marte and now Gurriel. Phils’ lineup is intact.

     I’m confident Topper can manage a team of tigers. But thus team? It’s too early for a team to be thinking about the links. Or is it?

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160. I am convinced that Stott is totally lost at the plate. On balls in the inner third he recoils like he’s going to be decapitated, unless it’s a breaking ball, then, he’ll corkscrew into the ground going after it on one knee. If it’s outer third, he’ll just look at a strike or with 2 on him anything is in play………. this is a really discombobulated team mess right now ……. total disarray.

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161. OK, who all is going down to the airport to welcome the team back?😏

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     1. oldruff. I missed the bus. This is a train wreck. I am glad I did not get on it. Where are the leaders we always hear spoken about. Think it is past time someone step to the front of the line. Seems like the back row is already full.

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