Ps and Cs, Day One, (Teaser, AP Throws)

Other Stuff

I’ll try and post a spring training article each day if the activity warrants.  These will remain open for comments until the next article is posted.  The discussion article will remain open for comments until the next Phillies discussion replaces it.

At 10:10 AM this morning, the pitchers who had been milling about among the coaches in left field of Ashburn Field dispersed to throw long toss.  And the 2024 edition of Spring Training was officially started.

I counted just 18 pitchers in the group.  There are 31 pitchers on the 40-man and NRI rosters.  This count includes the pitcher who will be DFA-ed or released outright when the Spencer Turnbull signing is official.

None of the pitchers could be identified by their jerseys as they all wore apparel with no names exposed.  However, guys like Nola, Hoffman, Alvarado, Sanchez, and Suarez were easily identifiable.  I’m fairly certain that I saw Wheeler, too.

The pitchers broke into two groups and went to the infields on Ashburn and Schmidt where they continued to toss the ball back and forth at closer range.  Finally, they went to the mounds for PFPs.  Nothing special, just comebackers and a soft toss to first base.

Meanwhile, the catchers took BP on Roberts Field.  A coach tossed pitches from a ramp set up about halfway between the mound and the plate.  Realmuto, Stubbs, Marchan, Aramis Garcia, Cody Roberts, and William Simoneit hit in two groups.  Realmuto landed a few shots on the other side of the creek beyond the left field fence.  Garcia showed some pop, too.

During and after BP, the catchers took turns receiving pitches from a pitching machine set up along the fence between the first base dugout and the backstop.  This machine had the ability to throw fastballs as well as varying off-speed pitches.  The catchers practiced bringing the pitch into frame.  It was cool to see Realmuto in particular.  He would start his glove in target position, drop it down to the dirt, and sweep up catching the ball into the zone.  All well and good until ABS makes framing obsolete.

Activity started to die down as pitchers in full pinstripe regalia went to the seven mounds to throw their bullpens.  I didn’t try to identify who was throwing but was told that Ortiz and Marte were among the group.

My attention was diverted to the rehab group.  They had assembled in right field on Carlton.  There were about a dozen or so guys out there going through their stretching, running, and agility drills.  When finished this part of the workout, the players who haven’t been cleared to throw go to work inside.  Only three players remained to throw.  One stood out – Andrew Painter.  He soft tossed from about 40 feet while the fellow next to him seemed to be further along in the process.  I think it best to not count on Painter’s return to active pitching this season.  If he does great but it would likely be for a single inning late in the minor league season.  Expect him to get more serious work during Instructs.

Oh, another bit of fallout from the early start and completion of the FCL season might bet the return of scheduled games during Instructs.  All the drafted players who don’t see any action after being selected and signed (NDFAs too) might see more action during a more rigorous Instructs.  Then again, maybe not.

All during the activities at the Complex, BP from the batting cages inside the stadium could be heard.  There was some activity on the half-field in front of the ticket office.  More than likely the early report infielders getting some work.

Important Dates

  • February 14, 2024: Voluntary reporting date for pitchers, catchers, and injured players
  • February 19, 2024: Voluntary reporting date for other players
  • February 19, 2024: Minor League Mini-Camp
  • February 23, 2024: Mandatory reporting date
  • February 29, 2024: Start of minor league spring training

Transactions

None today, so far.

86 thoughts on “Ps and Cs, Day One, (Teaser, AP Throws)”

    1. Separate but not equal. (haha) The major league camp is for getting the major league players baseball ready and setting the active roster by opening day. The minor league minicamp probably has multiple goals – allows some of the guys who were at the High Performance camp to continue their development, gives the Latin American players a taste of a stateside spring training, gets newer players more development experience, and gives guys who weren’t at the HP camp a chance to get up to speed before minor league spring training. Some of these guys may be extended invites as NRIs. Some might be called up to the Grapefruit League games.

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      1. Thanks Jim, greatly appreciated.

        I’m always surprised during ST when a boatload of minor leagues are transferred to the major league “roster” and back and forth. Just seems ridiculous, just play whomever during the game, don’t need strategy, just get in the work. I wouldn’t care if they brought players in and out of the lineup for extra work. Maybe I’m going too extreme.

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        1. Whether or not the minor leaguers get into the game is not important. Although, I like seeing them get a shot. The assignments are a reward of sorts. The minor leaguers get major league per diem for sitting in the dugout or bullpen. So, in addition for the thrill of hanging with the major league players and staff during a game in front of a full house, they get $125-$150 to boot.

          The Phillies aren’t required to do that. I hope they continue.

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  2. Wish I was there today. Nice talking to you and Steve last week. Thanks for the updates. Hope to make it next week.
    Mike D

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  3. Thanks for posting Jim. Seeing Marchán listed made me realize that he is really burried. Seems to be ticketed to a career AAAA guy. Maybe he gets a chance. Hope for his sake that he does.

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  4. Ruiz was 27 when his MLB career began. He went on to have an 11 year career.

    Marchan is going into his age 25 season. I do hope he gets a chance if not here somewhere…

    Stubbs is on a one year deal unless I am mistaken so next season could be his year to back-up. It will also be JT’s last year on his deal.

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    2. The MO it seems for players that are DFA’d is to resign on a minor league contract; Bellatti, Muzziotti, & I think Kingery, came back, so Moore might be back.

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      1. He has to pass through waivers first for that to happen.

        Moore has fairly high upside, and he’s a pitcher so he’s easier to stash on the roster. He seems much more likely to be claimed, so I imagine a minor trade is incoming. Could be wrong, though.

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  6. Keith Law’s Phillies top 20: https://theathletic.com/5270132/2024/02/15/phillies-2024-top-prospects-keith-law/?source=dailyemail&campaign=601983&userId=77144

    1. Andrew Painter, RHP (2024 top 100 ranking: 34)
    2. Justin Crawford, OF (2024 top 100 ranking: 43)
    3. Aidan Miller, SS/3B (2024 top 100 ranking: 89)
    4. Mick Abel, RHP (Just missed)
    5. Orion Kerkering, RHP
    6. Gabriel Rincones Jr., OF
    7. Emaarion Boyd, OF
    8. Bryan Rincon, SS
    9. Wen Hui Pan, RHP
    10. Devin Saltiban, SS/OF
    11. Eduardo Tait, C
    12. Griff McGarry, RHP
    13. Starlyn Caba, SS
    14. Samuel Aldegheri, LHP
    15. Símon Muzziotti, OF
    16. Carlos De La Cruz, OF/1B
    17. TJayy Walton, OF
    18. Alex McFarlane, RHP
    19. Christian McGowan, RHP
    20. Caleb Ricketts, C

    Others of note
    • Raylin Heredia
    • William Bergolla
    • Ethan Wilson 

    2024 impact
    Kerkering

    The fallen
    Jhailyn Ortiz

    Sleeper
    Saltiban

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Some of KLaw’s commentary for those without a subscription:
      1. Painter: “The ace upside is still there, just with more unknowns until we see him back on a mound and at full strength.”
      2. Crawford: “He’s still got 10-15 pounds of room to fill out, which could make him a 20-homer, 50-steal guy who plays plus or better defense in center.”
      3. Miller: “maybe an everyday third baseman with 25-30 homer power.”
      4. Abel: “I still see him starting, but the results and the specific details of his arsenal point toward a back-end role.”
      5. Kerkering: 80 grade slider, with great fastball. “I think he can be a 2+ WAR reliever for several seasons, starting now.”

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    2. 8. Rincon – Elite defender. Needs to prove he can hit.
      9. Wen Hui Pan – Sees him as a 2 pitch reliver
      10. Saltiban – elite athlete. “He might have been a steal for the Phillies.”
      13. Caba – Elite defender. needs to see bat against higher level pitching
      16. Carlos De La Cruz – strike out risks due to huge strike zone.
      Raylin Heredia – elite tools but high risk. not great at hitting off speed. “He’s a toolshed, with the potential for plus power, speed, and arm strength as well as 55 defense in right field.”

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      2. Yeah, I was surprised by that, but maybe your explanation is correct. He does have zero at bats in the US, so maybe we are all jumping the gun a little on him.

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  7. The Fangraphs Top 100 just came out, and Mick Abel is #22:

    Abel is a prototypical power pitching prospect with huge arm strength, a plus breaking ball, and the frame to not only hold his velo all year but perhaps keep throwing harder and harder.

    Abel didn’t have an especially good 2023, walking more than five batters per 9 IP at both Double-A Reading and Triple-A Lehigh Valley. In spite of this, I’m not inclined to slide him or adjust his FV grade from last year’s list. Abel still has most all of the ingredients needed to be an impact starter, he just isn’t totally baked yet. The 22-year-old is still a lanky and projectable 6-foot-5, he has tremendous arm speed and bodily flexibility, and he’ll occasionally touch triple digits (his fastballs averaged 96 mph throughout all of 2023) and show you plus secondary stuff, it’s just that the timing of his arm swing and release varies too much for him to throw strikes consistently. This has been the case since he entered pro ball and it needs to improve for him to hit his ceiling, but for a 22-year-old built like Abel is, and who throws as hard as Abel does, this is not unusual or alarming.

    It is a little frustrating that some of Abel’s blemishes have persisted for the last couple of years. His fastball shape isn’t optimal, his slider would probably be nastier if it were harder and it often blends into Abel’s curveball, and he still doesn’t have great changeup feel. But Abel is freaky. His stride down the mound is huge, his hips, shoulders and upper back are incredibly loose and explosive, and all that energy ends up leaving his body through his fingertips and into the baseball. Ideally, he’ll have functional four- and two-seam fastball variants at maturity and be able to work both north/south and east/west with his fastball. Abel has a strong natural proclivity for spinning his breaking stuff, but because his release is so inconsistent, so too is the shape and quality of those pitches. His mid-80s slurve is already an above-average pitch and could be a 70-grade shove machine at maturity. Abel will also flash a really good changeup once in a while; that pitch tends to be in the 86-89 mph range and feasts on hitters who have to cheat to catch up to his fastball. I’m projecting heavily on Abel’s command in anticipation of him growing into his body and arm speed. If he can consistently locate his stuff, then Abel will be a front-end arm. If not, he’s going to be a high-leverage reliever thanks to what I anticipate will be a 98-plus mph fastball if he’s allowed to air things out one inning at a time.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. I think this is a very fair assessment of Abel from what I’ve seen. Most publications downplay his upside due to lack of full command, but they really don’t do a good job articulating how talented he is and how things could come together if he progresses. To have him and Painter at the same time is super impressive. They did an outstanding job of scouting and drafting these guys.

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        1. Great point!! The writers often forget that the minor leagues are for development first and players who are working on stuff, especially pitchers, can look bad while they are asked to hone certain talents.

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  9. Perhaps if Abel was 24-25 I would be worried but he is going into his age 22 season, he also was a 2020 Draft Pick so he missed a year of development time.

    If he becomes an above average rotation piece in another year maybe even two I won’t complain.

    I think there is a tendency to think that a stud rotation piece has to be that straight away at 22 or 23.

    Logan Webb came up at 22. His first season and second season (age 23) were not highlight reels. He pitched to a 1.462 and even worse 1.564 WHIP in those seasons.

    His last 3 seasons 24-25-26 his WHIP is 1.113. That is stellar for a starter

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    1. DMAR …agree.
      I rather the Phillies work him in slowly to the MLB level.
      Hard throwing RHP out of HS have a tendency of breaking down sooner than later.
      I look at the Braves and their RHP who have succunb to one ailment or another….Soroka, Anderson, and Wright, though Wright was college guy.

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      1. I think the Phillies have been really careful with all of their pitchers and their usage, especially the young guys. The last prospect whose career may have been derailed by overuse was Spencer Howard. As I recall he was pitching 8 and 9 innings in A ball. They pushed him too hard, too soon and he was never the same. To me, that is so sad.

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          2. I stand corrected. Thanks for pointing that out – man, my memory really played tricks with me. I thought he threw a complete game. Thank you again for the correction.

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  10. I’m not one who gets the furor over Free Agents not signing by a certain date. Watching the Manfred presser it seems like weak journalists are all to happy to invent hostility of any sort.

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  11. Seeing Zolecki is saying Phillies have interest in Montgomery on a short-term deal. 1 or 2 years but he is not ready for that yet. Has been mentioned that Phillies prefer shorter deals for pitchers. Makes sense to me.

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  12. I’m starting to think there can’t be anything worse for these young prospects than these showcase games they have planned for ST.

    Can you imagine an amped up Skenes revving it up against Jackson Holiday in a meaningless game of show and tell!

    LOL…..What could possibly go wrong…

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  13. Other than Johan Rojas at the plate and some of the young or new pitchers, this ST does not have me as excited as some in the past.
    Roster seems pretty much set from the position side.
    And as far as pitching…maybe 2 or 3 relief pitchers could emerge from the prospect pool or free agency.

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  15. Romus…MLB has Ohio State vs Boston College playing right now in Arizona. Snowing here at the moment. I did see MLB say games begin on TV on the 22nd I think they said.

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    1. What’s the point of this signing? He had 0.7 WAR and he’s poor defensively. Really, the only positions he will play is in the OF. According to BR, he’s played 6 games total at 3B in his career.

      So he’s protection in case Marsh doesn’t recover well or Rojas has problems hitting? Where’s Pache or Cave in all this?

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      1. I guess this is a safe signing like you say, just in case …..then again Pache or Cave may be DFA to make room for him and Dave D wants to try to keep him around thru the season…..does bring some intangibles as for leadership and experience.

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      2. The team has too many that have high K rates and Whit is the opposite (also a low BB rate). Plays multi postions at an OK rate (not good and not bad), just OK. Bench will be a big battle in camp as Sosa, Merrifield, Pache, Cave, Wilson, and others try to prove the right to a roster spot.

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            1. Weston Wilson is interesting. He shows some real good offense potential. I like he has a real good BB/K rates and has power. I’m looking forward to see how the bench plays out this spring.

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        2. Sosa is guaranteed a spot. He’s done a great job for them and he plays SS. Pache is probably the odd man out as Cave hits left handed

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      3. Your last sentence, I’m not losing sleep out of the disapearance of either one, never understood the attraction to Cave in the first place. Merrifield can play in the infield as well.

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  19. Only negative – I believe Phils in Tier 2 for payroll. Would need to get very creative to add a Montgomery, or Closer at Deadline.

    Maybe a good time to renegotiate w/ Harper. Add 3 years, drop his AAV to $1m, and defer $400M to 2030 🙂

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  20. Most hits since start of 2017:

    1. Freddie Freeman
    2. Whit Merrifield
    3. Trea Turner
    4. Paul Goldschmidt
    5. Nolan Arenado

    I think this is insurance if any of the starting lineup gets injured (minus JT), then defensively we can shift people places and Whit will cover up the loose end.

    He might have lost a step as a ball player he but had 26 SBs last season, and he can’t be any worse than the bench players we’ve been trotting out there the last 2 years.

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      1. I have been looking over Johan Rojas’ stats from the MLB, not counting the playoffs. He was a real asset defensively and offensively. Hit over. 300 had good WAR and stole bases. He probably just let the nerves get to him in the playoffs, he tried to do too much and all he had to do is be average and do his thing in CF.
        Good article from Todd Zelecki about Rojas in MLB.com, that he put on 20 pounds of muscle and has been hitting since end of playoffs. Working out with Tatis and Càno.

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        1. Denny…that is encouraging for sure. and he really does not nee to put up high SLGpercentages….his speed on the base paths will stretch singles into doubles or walks into SB doubles.
          One thing Johan has to get over…is his slow starts at the minor league level these last few years. He usually picks it up by late May/early June. Maybe once the weather starts getting hotter, who knows why. At the MLB level that may not be a luxury for him.
          He is who I will be interested in seeing from the plate over these next 4/5 weeks.

          BTW…did you find a place to kennel your dogs down there?
          Town Hound could be one on 19 I hear.

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        3. 20 pounds? That’s a lot of muscle to put on in an offseason. I’d be concerned, that it was too much … if actually true. I can always be wrong, but 20 pounds of muscle since Nov… thats close to 5 pounds per month… thats really a lot…. If he was hanging around Tatis… id be skeptical it was all “legal” as well. Hope not, but when that kind of money is on the line… i get it.

          Whit is a nice add, feel like they’ve been targeting him for a long time. Im a big Pache fan, and I feel like ld like to see him given more a chance, he had a great run that looked like he figured it out until he got hurt. Will see. Either way, if they all hit, some be some trade pieces in there.

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            1. I remember – Nails was my favorite player growing up. That 93 season was awesome. 11 is more believable naturally …. 20 pounds in 4 months Denny? That is some serious crap – roids or natural. Congratsd

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            3. From Todd Zo’s article”
              “He enters Spring Training confident in part because of his work this winter. He said he started every day around 8:30 a.m. He finished around 3 p.m. He gained 11-12 pounds of muscle because he knew he needed to be stronger to succeed in the big leagues. He worked on his offensive gains, too. Specifically, he worked on improved pitch recognition.”
              https://www.mlb.com/phillies/news/johan-rojas-making-push-for-phillies-center-field-job

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    2. Charlie was a good manager and great person and could motivate as well as anyone. Players played hard for him but he was hardly a master strategist. Topper is the best Phillies manager I’ve seen and, to me, it’s not close.

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  22. Romus…I live just off of 19. This is Husky territory. Not Hounds Town. LOL
    BTW I think Merrifield will help the Phillies. I think he will be more consistent. Phillies must have assured him he will get decent playing time opportunities. Hope he does well.

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    1. Lol, seems like Hounds Town is a franchise and we have one here in Wake Forest, NC. I’ll check it out here and make that decision. Thanks all.

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  23. Denny…if ever in need in Central Indiana I know a good one.
    Andy…my wife saw a list of places they are suggesting people go for eclipse.
    Cincy to Shelbyville. Chicago and Wisconsin to Indy.

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  25. Ben Davis was on the radio this afternoon.
    Gave what he thought would be his best lineup.
    Prefers Stott leading -off

    1.Stott
    2.Turner
    3.Harper
    4 Schwarber
    5 JTR
    6. Bohm
    7. Castellanos
    8. Marsh
    9. Merrifield-LF

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    1. Stott
      Turner
      Harper
      Castellanos
      Schwarber
      JTR
      Bohm
      Marsh
      Rojas

      However, if Rojas has a breakout year – watchout NL!

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    2. Zero chance that Schwarber bats right behind Harper. I would like Bohm 4th and Schwarber 5th with Casty and JT after that before Marsh and Rojas.

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  27. Romus…I would be ok with Stott. But I am going to guess it will be Schwarber again. I would like to see a little more switching from left to right and vice versa. Ben has 5-7 on right side and 4 of last 5 batting right-handed. The Phillies will have some options on the order. Maybe go with the guys who are hitting the best up at the top. Sounds simple.

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    1. Maybe in spring trainng Topper will switch things up and see what he thinks is best.
      I do prefer Stott up at the top…..hits lefties better than the average bear, and can go from first to third without hesitation…..and will not K as much as Schwarber.

      Liked by 1 person

  28. Bob…I like yours better that Ben’s lineup. But I still think Schwarber bats leadoff. Probably Topper switches 1 and 5.

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  29. I read that Philly writers rating of the Top Phillies managers and it amuses and often irritates me at how little they are accurate or how wrong they are. I have no problem with Manuel and Green being 1-2, they were both very good managers and were the leaders [beneficiaries?] of the only two world titles in Phillies history. Fair enough?

    But to list Danny Ozark as #3 and ahead of Gene Mauch is not only wrong but foolish and shows to me he likely wasn’t around for either Mauch’s 60’s era or Ozarks 70’s period. Because had he been he never would have ranked them thusly. I was around for both and can almost painstakingly talk about both Mauch’s 10 game collapse in 1964 and Ozarks foibles in the ’76-78 playoffs.

    In short, if I was to define them as managers I would suggest Mauch took bad teams and made them good [1962] and good teams and made them very good [1963-64]. Ozark took very good teams [1975, 1978] and made them good and tremendous teams [1976-77] and made them less so. Mauch was a brilliant strategist, Ozark often was unsure when the Phils had even been eliminated from playoff contention [1973].

    And in his evaluation of Mauch he says that in 1960 the team finished 81-80. That must be embarrassing news to Clay Dalrymple, Bobby Wine and Art Mahaffey, all still living members of that team, who finished the 1961 team with a 47-107 record, including the still discussed 23 game losing streak. In fact, they went 59-95 in 1960, and it was in 1962 they were 81-80, an astounding 34 wins better than in ’61. Everyone, players, coaches and opponents said it was Mauch’s magic that made that record possible.

    He improved on that in 1963 with 87 wins, including a closing rush of 56-35, which caused Dodger GM Buzzie Bavasi to suggest it should be the Phils and not the Dodgers in the ‘;63 WS since “they are the best damn team in baseball right now” at the close of the campaign. Then, of course, Mauch had the team on the precipitous of the ’64 WS after 150 games with a 90-60 record.

    FWIW, I remember almost every detail of the 7 game home losing streak [by the time they got to St. Louis I was too emotionally spent to remember those 3 games] and Mauch did very little differently during that terrible week until Game 7 when he started Bunning on 2 days rest because the Phils ace came into his office that morning and said he wanted the ball.

    Oh, he did start Chris Short on 2 days rest on Friday night but A] Short had previously done this twice during the season and won both games, B] had been not pitched that long on the previous Tuesday night and was certainly not tired and C] pitched brilliantly into the 7th inning [with a 1-0 lead] until catcher Clay Dalrymple committed a catcher’s interference error which lead to a 2 run Brave inning. Short was dominant that night and likely would have won had not for Dalrymple’s miscue. And the following afternoon, behind a rested Art Mahaffey, the Phils took a lead into the 9th inning before the bullpen blew it. Had the Phils won those 2 games [and they should have] Bunning never pitches that Sunday on 2 days rest, the Phils win the pennant and Mauch is likely #1 or #2 on that list.

    Should a man’s solid career be judged on a 1 week period of his life? I think not. Mauch was a great manager and should be on the Phils Wall of Fame. That he isn’t is a stain on that Wall’s legacy, especially since he so helped the careers of many who are on that Wall [Callison, Allen, Bunning, Short, Taylor to name a few.] Had Mauch had a few of Ozark’s great clubs he would be on that Wall. Because he was then, and remains today, head and shoulders above Ozark in managerial genius and skill.

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    1. Cal – I simply cannot agree more with your comments. Mauch was widely considered the best manager in baseball at that time. Ozark couldn’t carry Mauch’s glove. The writer totally missed it….

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    2. Cal Dreaming you are right……There is an incredible book about Phils 1964….The Year of Blue Snow…….that 1 week in 1964 should not define Mauch

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  30. Cal… I remember those 1964 games. Long ago. I just started teaching and in late 70s so all my teacher buddies were on me with those losses to Cincy and Dodgers.

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  31. Romus…I agree for all the same reasons but seems to me Schwarber (IU guy) has Topper convinced he needs to lead off.

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