Phils Make a Trade

No, Hamels, Papelbon, Utley, Howard, Revere and everyone else on the 25 man roster are still here, but the Phillies did acquire the #1 International Signing Slot from Arizona for the 2015-16 signing period.  In return, the Phils gave up their #9 slot, and Lakewood pitchers Chris Oliver and Josh Taylor.

Oliver was the Phils 4th round pick in 2014 and has been disappointing since coming aboard last year.  Oliver, who is soon to be 22, was 4-5 with a 4.04ERA in his 13 starts.  The problematic part of Oliver’s development has been bb/k ratio.  He is averaging 4.2BB/3.5K per 9 this year which leads to trouble on both ends of the spectrum.  The opposition was batting .291 against Oliver (.352 over the last 30 days).

Josh Taylor, 22,  was an undrafted free agent out of Georgia State and is 4-5 with a 4.63ERA in his 13 starts this year. His bb/k ratio is good at 3.2BB/9.2K per 9 and the opposition was hitting .265 off of him.  Over the last 30 days, Taylor is holding the opposition to an average of just .213.

48 thoughts on “Phils Make a Trade

  1. Oliver and Taylor each made 13 starts for Lakewood in their 6-man rotation. This would indicate that some internal moves are on the horizon. Even if they decide to go with a 5- man rotation, they are short one starter. The release of Yoel Mecias, removes him from consideration. So, maybe a signee from outside the organization or maybe promote Mitch Gueller from Williamsport? Or Franklyn Kilome?

    1. Any recent college draft choices? It’s actually great to see the forward thinking. It’s a funny world though where we have to trade two arms for the right to spend an extra $2M.

    2. Clearwater has Brandon Leibrandt rehabbing in the GCL. When he comes off the DL they should demote Victor Arano who’s having a terrible year. For the other spot Gueller or Kilome – toss up.

      1. For those calling for Arano to be demoted, Harold.. you’re not the only one, you should take a look at his last 3 outings. In those outings, Arano’s given up 2 ERs on 13 hits in 17 innings. He also has 9 Ks and no BBs over that stretch. It’s not just about the entire portfolio but mostly what have you done lately. He seems to be on an upward trend.

        1. Arano will be a stud pitcher IMO. If he repeats CLW next season, I can see him dominating that league.

  2. Smart deal. I wonder why Arizona handed over their slot for nearly nothing in return.

    1. They couldn’t use it anyway as they are in penalty right now from overspending last year.

      1. Thanks for the info on Arizona’s situation. I wasn’t aware. That explains why they were willing to give that asset up. But it still doesn’t explain why they gave the asset away for nothing.

        1. The Phillies had almost all of the leverage. The Diamondbacks couldn’t use the slots, and there probably weren’t any other teams looking to trade with them. The Diamondbacks got two lottery tickets for the equivalent of a lawnmower in Manhattan.

          1. Gotcha. Makes sense. And maybe those 2 pitchers’ live arms are more attractive than I’m giving them credit for having.

  3. Could somebody please explain the significance of this transaction? I’m really in the dark about how all of this works and what it means.

    1. If we stand pat and don’;t use anymore international pool money we will be able to spend next july 2nd. With around 5.5 million in pool money as well as none of the other high spending teams being able to spend above 300k. We will be able to crush it next year.

      1. In fact, the Ortiz deal has not been finalized yet because this trade had to be completed first to use the money towards Ortiz. You can’t use the money after the fact. Bottom line is they’ll still be able to spend next year now rather than be limited to $300K. It’s a good move and one I was hoping for when the Ortiz deal wasn’t announced officially.

      2. Probably not. Even though the big spenders will be in the penalty box, numerous teams see next year as the last chance to stock up on players before some kind of draft. Teams don’t seem to care about any penalties, figuring there will be ways around them. Three players are said to already have deals.

        1. Penalties will carry over to a draft , if it ever gets finalized. So teams could lose draft picks if they intend on busting their allocation this year or next

          1. Right now, it’s not known if there will be an international draft or if those players will be put in rule 4. It’s also not known if 16 year olds will still be able to sign contracts. Yes, there will be penalties for going over, but teams are already committing to doing it. And, we do not have international money to trade.

    2. In short, the Phillies went over their International Allotment when they signed Ortiz and the catcher whose name escapes me at the moment plus other guys.

      They had to deal for International dollars so they traded the value of their 9th round slot for a 1st round value slot and tossed in two prospects.

      Arizona was not going to use their slot money because they went over last year so we made a deal for money they would not otherwise use.

      1. I think it was a good move. You bought International dollars from a team that would not use them and gave up less, prospect wise, than other teams did when they made International dollar deals a few days earlier.

    3. Catch,
      The Phillies International Pool allotment is $3,041,700. The reported contracts for Ortiz and Marchan are around $4.4M. As it stood, the Phillies would be prevented from signing anyone over $300K next year.

      Arizona is one of several teams who exceeded their pool last year and could not spend their $5M plus this year. However, they are allowed to trade a slot’s value. Essentially we exchanged the #9 slot ($1,352,100) plus two pitchers for the #1 overall slot ($3,590,400). The total increase brings our available international pool to $5,285,000.

      That is more than enough to cover the two contracts. However, a team is prohibited from exceeding their allotment by more than 50%. So, the Phillies actually have a real pool value of $4,562,550. Still enough to cover the contracts.

      They had to exceed the ammount needed because teams can only trade money by slot value. The pool money is awarded by assigning values to 120 slots. Each team is assigned slots based on the reverse order of winning percentage. (The Phillies received slots 9, 39, 69, 99.)

      Baseball America has a couple articles in front of the pay wall that help explain this.
      http://www.baseballamerica.com/international/2015-16-mlb-international-bonus-pools/
      and
      http://www.baseballamerica.com/international/2015-international-bonus-pools-slots/

      1. Phillies trying to avoid 2015 overage. Cake and eat it too. Ortiz being the cake. It’s hard to predict talent level years in advance, but with more and more franchises facing penalties I would love to see us land Ortiz and a few lesser talents if it means going into next signing period without penalties

    1. Shane Watson is already in Lakewood. He was already on the Lakewood roster but just came off the restricted list. He took the place of Yoel Mecias in the rotation. He is starting tonight.

  4. well, if you are going to make a poor draft pick in Oliver, refreshing that they admitted it early and got something out of it.
    that being said, wonder why they couldnt have made the Sam Hinkie- like deal Atlanta made with the D-backs earlier in the week- take on the contact of Arroyo (either buy him hit out at end of year, or keep him for next year to be a veteran on the staff with the other veterans likely gone) and get a 2014 #1 pick in touki toussaint. with the other payroll they slashed this year, they could have afforded to do that i think.

      1. Wait to see what happens with the 76ers first before you give Hinkie any praise. Remember how the MCW trade turned out.

        1. The MCW trade hasn’t really “turned out” yet. The Lakers look like they’ll avoid a bottom 3 record this year but have little to no chance of making the playoffs since they struck out on their prime FA targets.

          1. The Bucks look like solid contenders next year.

            That trade did not work out and the Sixers are still a top 5 lottery team. For all of Hinkie’s supposed genius the guy has yet to show improvement with the team.

            1. The Bucks may have a solid team next year but MCW probably isn’t even one of their 4 best players. I don’t know how anyone could say the trade didn’t work out when the pick the Sixers got hasn’t even conveyed yet.

            2. I know this is completely the wrong place for Hinkie talk, but I don’t think he really wants the team to show dramatic improvement until perhaps next year and I don’t view the MCW trade to be a big deal. Now, if your criticism is that you think his plan for a turnaround will take too long, it’s a fair point (I think it’s like a 5-6 year plan), but if what you are looking for is a team that will ultimately be young and should compete at the highest level for 10 years or more, then I think it’s a good plan and I’m willing to wait 5 or 6 years for that, but it remains to be seen if it will happen. I feel good about it. In my view, unlike MacPhail, I think Hinkie walked into the worst situation imaginable – he had to undo a lot (including no first round picks in some upcoming rounds) before he could make positive movement. MacPhail is in a much better position, the farm is already pretty well stocked, the biggest contracts are all coming off the books in the next year or two and he has a lot of revenue to work with.

            3. Why didn’t the trade work out? Because we didn’t get the pick this year? The Lakers are awful. There is a very good likely hood that we will get it this year and it be top ten. So, you will have taken the 11th pick in a weak draft and turned it into a top 10 pick.

  5. Both Oliver and Taylor start for Lakewood. I imagine they will move Arteaga and either Kilome or Gueller. Kilome because he should go. Arteaga because he has been their best pitcher and he is older.

  6. Brandon Leibrandt should be off rehab soon and back in the Clearwater rotation and they will need to make room for him. Victor Arano is having a poor year and therefore a prime candidate to be moved down. As far as the best pitcher right now in Williamsport to move up, I couldn’t pick between Gueller, Arteaga and Kilome. I’ve watched all three this season and they all look good.

  7. …and just after I post that I see today’s Williamsport score. Gueller gave up four in the first at Brooklyn in a 9-2 loss. So it goes. My guess is Arteaga. He’s been in Lakewood before.

  8. Maybe they should’ve taken amaro’s nephew from the rookie league as a alternate trade bait.

  9. Are any of the Phillies’ other slots close to the $700,000 overage, that they could use as a trade asset?

  10. Looks like the promotion to Lakewood will be made simply by slot in the Williamsport rotation. Mitch Gueller pitched last night. Next up would be 22 yo Luis Morales. The Cutters are starting 6th round pick Tyler Gilbert (21) instead. He has thus far only pitched 1.2 innings in relief. Tomorrow’s Williamsport starter should be Denton Keys (20). Instead Williamsport has 7th round pick Luke Leftwich (21) scheduled to start. He has pitched 2.2 innings in relief.

  11. Well, wrong again. You never can depend on Phils management to make a logical move. Will Morris, this year’s designated yo-yo is up again.

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