Wetzler, Monda, and Marti Wolever

Wetzler/Monda Discussion

2013 Draft

I’ll open a thread for everyone to discuss Wetzler/Monda.

Baseball America Article

I’ll mention that I asked Aaron Fitt last night if he knew whether there was a possibility that Monda and Wetzler shared an adviser/agent, and he said plainly that they did not.

My immediate reaction is this can’t help The Phillies attract guys in the draft, but it may lead them to avoid guys who are a little more on the fence than they’re willing to say. If you’re in Jason Monda’s situation, I think you’re more unequivocal in your dealings with The Phillies – a “STAY AWAY FROM ME” kind of thing.

Ethically, it seems pretty questionable for a club to try to burn a college guy(s) over standard practice. When the signing deadline came and went, these two guys not signing seemed an indictment of The Phillies PacNW team. We’ll see how the details shake out. Too early to pass judgment. But feel free to do so in the comments.

Matt Edit Here:

The “No Agent Rule:

The first rule, known as the “no agent” rule, prohibits players from being represented by agents in negotiations with professional teams, and the latter rule specifies that players are not even permitted to have a lawyer or adviser be present during negotiations between player and club. The rules are very clear: A player may retain an adviser to look over contracts and offer advice, but as soon as the adviser has any contact with a pro club on the player’s behalf, he becomes an agent, and the player becomes ineligible.

Some Tweets from around the internet:

108 thoughts on “Wetzler/Monda Discussion”

  1. Simply pathetic of the organization to do this. There goes any future credibility they have with any draft picks. I’ve rolled my eyes at the way they’ve signed aging free agents, extended contracts, traded players, failed to sign draft picks but honesty this makes me feel dirty being a Phillies fan.

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  2. If Monda/Wetzler had a negotiated deal and a handshake agreement with the Phillies and then backed out, fine. Anything short of that is a disgrace on the Phillies’ part, especially if it is recognized SOP within the industry. The Phillies come off here as the jilted girlfriend who slashed your tires.

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  3. Agreed, this is disgusting. The rule in general needs to be changed asap but it wont because NCAA is one of the most corrupt organizations ever, but nonetheless, the Phillies are pathetic for doing this. It sucks how unlikable this team has become, on and off the field

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    1. Agree that the NCAA is corrupt, but the Phillies did the correct thing, no matter how bad it looks. And when teams start doing this, then perhaps the collegiate players and the NCAA will come up with some system to allow third year draft eligible collegiate the opp for an agent……in football the players ‘declare’ for the draft….why, isn’t this the same in baseball!.

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      1. In basketball, kids declare, and are then allowed to sign with an agent. If they do, they can’t come back to school. If they don’t sign with an agent, they can see where they’re about to be picked and withdraw from the draft. And if they don’t sign and aren’t drafted, they become FAs, I believe. Someone who follows basketball more closely can correct me on that. Seems baseball could form some similar arrangement with NCAA if they wanted to. So who is against it? MLB, MLBPA, or NCAA? Would imagine it’s NCAA, but I don’t know.

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  4. Maybe this is just a response to the allocation system. Teams are clearly heavily incentivized to enforce the NCAA rules now that they can’t meet agents’ demands. I’m not saying that’s right, but those are the institutions in place. Just because teams have turned a blind eye to “advisers” doesn’t mean the rule went away.

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  5. Let’s wait and see how it plays out. It looks bad, admittedly, as does the fact that the team’s response today is “no comment.” But I have a feeling we will know more by the end of the day. My own feeling is that usually when someone does something that seems hard to believe, there is usually more to the story. But sometimes people just do stupid, irrational things out of anger, so who knows?

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    1. Good comment as there is much more to the story than what Mr. Fitt and the Phillies are saying. The truth is going to come out and then we will know much more than we do now.

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  6. ‘Ethically, it seems pretty questionable for a club to try to burn a college guy(s) over standard practice’….truly!
    If it is standard practice then make it legal for collegiates to have an agent.
    Right now as it stands, it is not authorized nor legal.
    I do not agree with the way the Phillies reported it, however, they have every right to do the ‘ethical’ action when it comes to the legality of the matter.
    IMO, in the future, when they draft a collegiate and he has an agent ‘under the table’, then the Phillies should address the issue publicly by announcing something to the effect, ‘contract negotiations are continuing with the Phillies and player John Doe and his agent Jane Doe’ .
    Let the NCAA decide at that point what has to be done.

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    1. So its “ethical” to turn in a kid and possibly ruin his future for doing something that every college draft pick does? You say “if it is standard practice, make it legal…” I agree there, but they wont because the NCAA doesnt care about a student athletes future. You seem to think its is more ethical to abide by the rules set forth by a tyrannical, corrupt organization than it is to give a young man the best chance at future success both professionally and financially.

      Your last comment is the scariest…the NCAA is the last people who I trust to handle this fairly.

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      1. If the NCAA rules are so terrible and corrupt, then the athletes have a choice: don’t join the NCAA. They could sign with the Phillies or play independent ball. Or heck, go to college and don’t play sports.

        The athlete did have choices besides breaking the rules and the joining the NCAA. He just chose not to take them.

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        1. That’s silly. You are saying he should either enter the draft early when he didnt feel he was ready, or go play with a bunch of washed up 38 year olds? Gimme a break. You sound like one of those rednecks who say “This is Amurica and if you dont like our laws then you can geeeeet out!”

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          1. It’s fine to have an opinion but when you attack someone personally for their opinion you look like a bigger jack a$$ then they do.

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    2. Just because he violated an NCAA rule, that doesn’t mean reporting the player is the ethical thing to do. In my mind, it’s almost unethical to negotiate with a player–but really let’s be honest, a kid–who isn’t represented.

      I can’t believe that’s the NCAA rule. If someone is drafted and is faces life-altering negotiations with a huge and savvy corporation that does this kind of thing as a matter of course, the NCAA should insist he get professional advice, not forbid it.

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      1. Agreed. They don’t have the interests of the people involved at heart. The rule is likely there in small part to prevent players from being duped, which is nice, but the main argument is “amateur” above all else. Like allowing a college to pay for a kid’s education isn’t compensation.

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  7. I was reviewing the BA list when this broke and feeling excitement over where the org could be a year from now. Phils currently have 3 prospects in the to 100 and it is not a stretch that they could have 5 in the top 100 next year with the number 7 pick in this year’s draft and a current lower level prospect that takes a leap this year. I don’t expect much from the big club this year, but I expect there will still be fun stuff to watch the progression of Asche, to see what Dom is this year, to watch the pen that may go from a liability to a strength, the mystery of MAG, Sept callups….

    Then this broke last night and a lot of that helium dissapated. Now there will be serious signability questions in the upcoming draft for every pick that isn’t a collage senior. If the allegations are true I don’t expect that they will be as attractive to established players and their agents in the free agent market either.

    Taking a step back and looking at the bigger picture; if this is true, this is just a scummy move. These are young adults, faced with a life changing decision at 21 years old without the skills to properly negotiate their position. They deserve the right to receive professional advice. I get that it is technically against the rules, but logic should win out here. If this came from within the org it is a horrible reflection on the character of the individual responsible. If it was a collective FO decision it is just severly dissappointing and they are branded an untrustworly org in which to negotiate. I hope that we find out this was not a Phils leak, but currently it is not looking good.

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    1. Explain to me why this is different then the ‘life-changing decisions’ to be made by the 21-year old NCAA college football player?

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      1. It’s not, these players should have the benefit of professional advice. Not my expertise but I believe football players declare and forfeit amatuer status at that time, where with baseball, the players don’t declare but teams are trying to gauge signability.

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  8. To all of those who are saying “those are the rules” and “phillies have a right to turn in someone for breaking them” you can really go screw. This is just one of a whole list of rules that the NCAA has in place that is unfair to the student athlete. Kudos to the rest of baseball for accepting this as common practice, the kid should have a right to representation. People with the “those are the rules” mentality are the kind of people who allow huge corporations to become so corrupt and get away with it.

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    1. Agreed, the rule is ignored consistently and this seems, at least on its face, to be malicious payback by a corporate giant who could have just moved on.

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    2. Thanks Mr Obama. It is acceptable to bend or break the rules when it suits you and can be advantageous. However, if it goes against you, you would be the first person lining up in front of the local attorneys office filing a lawsuit.

      I can go off and provide numerous examples of why rules should be followed, but I am quite sure this thread would explode. Parents don’t tell their children that it is acceptable to bend and break rules. They tell them to follow them. End of story.

      FWIW, the NCAA sucks and is one of the money making corporations of which you speak. However, they put a rule in place, and the kid did not follow it. Plain and simple.

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        1. Doesn’t matter. He got caught.

          People on this site work for a living and know that if they bend or break a rule at work, they will be fired. Therefore, they follow the rules.

          I am pretty sure that no one has all of the facts of this case. When everything is presented, we will get a better understanding of what transpired. Until then, calling people silly, or telling them to “go screw” only shows the true ignorance of the uninformed.

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          1. This is accepted practice and the teams and representatives tell the player as much. It’s not like the player is looking for a rule to break – he is told to ignore it by those in authority because everyone else does. This is an adult, for sure, but one who is being advised on a financial decision that adults of his age are rarely equipped to handle on their own.

            We’ll see if the Phillies comment further at some point, but if their intent was to harm a student-athlete out of spite, they are morally in the wrong, no matter what you think of the athlete’s decision to break an antiquated rule.

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            1. Yes I agree if this is an “in spite” move just to harm 2 kids because they changed their minds due to representation. But as with everything in History someone has to take a stand to make a change for better or worse. I do not know what is the right or wrong course of action for MLB and NCAA to resolve this but clearly having a go ahead break the rules because everyone else does its “Common Practice” is not the right way to go about it.

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  9. This scorched earth policy probably isn’t going to help the Phillies in future negotiations with draft picks.. But I must say that I was quite disappointed when Wetzler didn’t sign so my spiteful side is a bit giddy.

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  11. If you guys think that this is going to actually effect the Phillies ability to sign players, your crazy. People are not going to avoid signing with the Phillies when 1) They have no other options(draft you know) and 2) Are about to get the biggest payday of their lives.

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    2. HS kids who are on the fence may beg off of Phillies drafting them, especially in the high first round. Signability concerns are real and considered with every pick. Or should be. It seems like The Phillies are pretty bad at that consideration, IMO.

      And do you honestly not think a college junior in line to be drafted by the Phillies wouldn’t tell their staff they are going back to school and to stay away? Talented players will get drafted by a team that thinks it can sign the player.

      This could absolutely have a negative impact on the club.

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  12. If the phillies org really did this, then I may find a new team to cheer for until this front office is gone. A bunch of spiteful teenagers must run this team. Amaro and his crew are an embarrassment to this city

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  13. So the Phils are the bad guys here. Not, you know, the people who broke the rules, or the organization that made the rule, but the Phillies, for merely reporting the facts as they knew them.

    No way. Now if the Phils lied, sure. But if the didn’t, and they merely factually reported what went on…they’re not the bad guys.

    These guys went to the NCAA knowing what their rules were, but thinking they wouldn’t get caught.

    It’s like speeding down a road. 99 times out of a 100, I won’t get caught, but if I do, that’s on me. It’s a risk I took, since I knew what the rules were. It’s not everyone else’s fault because most of the time the rules aren’t enforced and I’m being picked on, you break the rules, you take your chances.

    Don’t like the rule, don’t join the organization. But don’t flout it and then cry when you get caught.

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    1. You are such a fool it’s not even funny. I bet you were the tattle tale in school when you were a kid.

      Think outside the box. Don’t have the “those are the rules” mindset…that is a very dangerous way to think. Think if a. the rule is fair at all and b. that nobody else follows it for that reason.

      Hes a young kid who did what they all do to try to secure his future. It didn’t work out the phillies way so they acted like a bunch of babies. Shame on them and shame on you for being such a conformist.

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      1. If the rule isn’t fair, then the correct thing to do is work to change the rule, or not join that organization….not break it and cry when you get caught.

        And I’d guess you were the guy at school who called others names when they didn’t agree with him. Oh wait, I don’t have to guess-because that’s precisely the way you are now.

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        1. But lets be realistic…he kind of has to join the organization. I admire that he didnt come out out of high school if he didnt think he was ready. So he either had to join, or go to some indy league. That isnt logical.

          Every organization has rules, and every organization has some that are not enforced the way others are. This was one of them. The NCAA just doesnt care about the student athletes, without whom the organization would be nothing. The want to claim they are a non profit while raking in billions. They want to not only refuse to pay athletes, but now they want to stop them from having the best negotiations for the next step in their lives? It’s disgusting.

          Lawyers have worked to change the rule for years, but its a lot easier said and done when going up against an organization with such clout

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      3. Your comments are really starting to piss me off, and I don’t even entirely disagree with you. The personal attacks have to stop, you’re being a little bitch. Enough already.

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    2. exactly..this is just pile on because fans have sourced on Amaro. If phillies were winning…this would be non issue.

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    3. My only problem with your statement is how many other players have the Phillies signed/negotiated with while knowing the player was breaking this very rule? Do you really think the Phillies have NEVER knowingly took part in the breaking of this rule? A sad day in the life of a Phillies fan. I think the facts we have now are enough to show the Phillies thought they could sign these kids, the kids changed their mind/bonus demand, and the Phillies tried to burn them.

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    4. The issue with this argument is the Phillies only decided to report the facts after things didn’t work out. If they would have reported them as soon as the player got the adviser and not negotiated with them then fine you could play the Phillies doing the right thing card, this is just spiteful behavior from a bully that didn’t get its way.

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  14. I agree that we have to get more details on this but I don’t see what the Phils have to gain here.It’s not like they’re gonna get those players now or get extra picks for not signing them. My understanding is that this has been going on for years in baseball. Any player that’s drafted is getting some sort of advice from somewhere. Whether they sign or not. I just think the Phils miscalculated signing both players and are upset they blew 2 fairly high picks. In Wetzler’s case maybe his demands went up after having a good college WS. This wouldn’t be the first time this has happened.

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      1. Yeah, I’ll stop. I just can’t believe how many people have a “those are the rules and rules are rules” mentality towards this!

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        1. My guess is that someone will be fired over this probably one of the Pacific Northwest scouts. The baseball draft needs severe overhauling so non college seniors can’t work the system and be more like the NBA or NFL drafts with a combine.

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        1. I would guess Marti or one of the West Coast scouts did this. The GM usually stays away from the draft process. Somebody’s head or heads will roll over this although it probably was the right thing to do to fix a corrupt system. MLB needs to set up combines like the other leagues.

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  16. My biggest concern would be some draft eligible players shying away from even talking to the Phils after this. This is not the type of thing you want hanging over you during draft time.

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  17. The biggest thing this hurts will be the Phillies ability to assess signability. Gauging how much each pick will cost is important to draft strategy in slotting age. Sometimes that information changes, but you need to know overall, how much it will cost.

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  18. If Wetzler and Monda were advised by agents prior to the draft to promise the Phils they would sign for slot, and then, after the Phillies had committed, the agents advised them to use that commitment as leverage to negotiate above-slot payments, I am not as concerned about challenging their eligibility.

    I probably don’t understand the draft process in enough detail to opine, but my impression is that one of the purposes of the slotting system is to prevent pre-draft salary negotiation between teams and players and provide the players with a sense of their “best-day” position such that an agent would not be necessary. This satisfies the NCAA’s desire to keep players away from agents while also allowing players to accurately gauge their worth.

    This system seems pretty unworkable, and I suspect the Phils are not the only team who was burned by this process.

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    1. What I’m most curious about is the different penalties. Monda was cleared; Wetzler wasn’t.

      Wetzler must have done something more egregious than Monda.

      In my opinion, therein lies the interesting bit. What did Wetzler do that Monda didn’t?

      My guess would be–and obviously only a guess–that Monda did what most of the prospects do, even in violation of the rules, so he was cleared. Wetzler must have done something beyond this, to be suspended.

      I do hope the full-story comes out.

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  19. I would be interested in hearing what guys like Diekman, Rosenberg, Schwimer et al had to say about this.
    Of course Ruf would not qualify since he did all four years of the college eligibilty requirement.
    In any event, I am sure they all got advice from a ‘parental’ figure at some point in their decision making process.

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    1. I Don’t
      know what guys like Diekman, Rosenberg and Schwimer would be able to say, that would help explain, they were college guys with no more time left, had to sign. I really am interested in the why behind this move, and if other clubs have filed a complaint now and in the past, and what came of it, This whole thing is confusing me a lot, I really am on the side of the kids if this move, was for the kids to get the most out of the draft, which seems to be the logic behind the move, how many times do the Phillies have to lose top ten picks to realize something is wrong, with there Predrafts thinking or lines of communication with these kids,

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  20. One more point…did the Phillies not forecast that once this came out, they were going to be looked at like huge jerks? Did they not see this as a terrible PR move? Is getting a kid in trouble really worth all the bad press?

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    1. I’d say no to the first two, and a resounding “HELL NO” to the last one.

      Still, something about this whole thing seems odd to me. If it’s just a “Wetzler/Monda didn’t sign and we’re pissed off” scenario, this is little more than petty vindictiveness. Still, I have to wonder how much more there is to the story. I may be overthinking it, but it can’t be this simple.

      After seeing that Olney retweet (Thanks Matt) about locking MLB teams from scouting, I have to wonder how many colleges will do that to the Phillies.

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    2. Yes it is if he signed or verbally agreed to a contract as Wetzler is an legal adult. If not then the Phillies are wrong in reporting him.

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        1. Monda absolutely said he wasn’t going to sign early on, and I think pre-draft it was clear he had said so. He was going to go back to school and then to med school, or so was the public/his story, at least.

          Wetzler was in the CWS, and the story has been that he decided after OSU’s deep run to come back to school to make a run at a title – not unreasonable. How that went down in negotiations may have been: “I know I said I was signing, but now I want to go back to school and try to win it all.” Don’t know.

          Either way, the club griping about Monda seems really weak, and NCAA is letting him play, so it seems like they agree. Wetzler is harder to know because we don’t know what the club is asserting he and his adviser/agent told them, and what Wetzler is saying to NCAA as a counter to the claim. Maybe one of the beat writers or BA/competitors will get an anonymous source to tell the Phillies side of things and print it. Hard to see Wetzler speaking out about it, but a family member could do the anonymous source thing also. Maybe we’ll get both sides of the story in the press.

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        2. I thought Monda said he wouldn’t sign . right after the draft, don’t remember Wetzel .Look this has been going on now with this front office, for a while not signing top ten kids, somewhere there is a lack of communication.

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  21. There’s absolutely no upside for the Phillies. Even if they’re 100% correct, they’ve lost trust and credibility with agents and future draftees. They’ve done nothing but hurt themselves.

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    1. I disagree, they would have never drafted him that early if there had been any doubt about him signing, scouts even call the player minutes before the actual name is called just to make sure that nothing has changed before they actually take the player. So if there was a general understanding between the player and the Phillies before the draft and after the draft an agent comes and changes things around I think the Phillies should do exactly what they did.

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      1. Your thought process is fine unless they want to be able to sign juniors in the future from either Monda or Wetzler’s schools, (and beyond). It’s true that they can turn a kid in who is breaking a rule, sure, but it’s not a good business move. Aaron Fitt’s reporting that agents/advisers have told him the Phils will not be welcome to deal with their clients. How much impact that may have in the grand scheme remains to be seen, but it could be widespread. For what? To spite Ben Wetzler and his agent?

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        1. There are a lot of agents and wannabe agents out there, I think in the end the agents would be hurt more then the Phillies. My son was drafted by the Phillies and right after the draft we got half a dozend phonecalls from agents that all of a sudden wanted to represent my son. By the time of the draft both sides know what to expect and like I said the scout calls minutes before the actual draft and reassures that nothing has changed.

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  22. The problem is that Amaro & the Phillies had no problem “negotiating” with an agent when they thought Wetzler would sign (as I understand it). Once they were spurned, now they have an issue with “breaking the rules”?

    It’s spiteful, disingenuous, and as a Phillies fan, embarrassing.

    Thank goodness for the Sixers and Eagles.

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  23. The Phils run things like a family business for those under contract. If you’re not under contract, it’s hardball.

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  24. Seems like a strange move since they’ve faced this same situation in previous seasons without creating any fuss. Need some more info in regards to why this was handled differently

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    1. I was wondering about this with Rash, but that was his father negotiating, IIRC, which I think is fine, since he’s not paying his father as an agent (theoretically). Same with Ryan Garvey, I think, though he was considered kind of a long shot, anyway.

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      1. But wasn’t Alec Rash a high schooler ilo of a third-year collegiate? There is a difference there. Now whoever advises him…be it a parent or an agent ‘friend’, the Phillies would have no recourse anyway.
        When it is all said and done, maybe beneficial changes will now happen to make everyone happy, the players, the NCAA and MLB.

        And to think Ruben Amaro was the impetus for the change!
        The ‘Amaro Amendment’

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        1. If Rash had used an agent, the NCAA could have suspended him as well, but I think parents are allowed to negotiate on the player’s behalf no matter what level the play. Anyone confirm that’s the case?

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    2. I am sure something similar happened with Workman and he was a higher draft pick so there has to be more to the story or maybe they are just tired of the oh never mind I want more $ or im going to school.

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      1. Maybe with the new bonus caps they’re worried the same thing will happen to cost them even a chance to sign a guy without paying the tax, and under the old system they were less concerned. Not sure. Gelb did say today that the Phils did eventually offer Wetzler over slot money. Didn’t quote a number. Could have been significant or not.

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        1. FWIW – Deitch or Branch or both have reported Wetzler’s bonus offer was $400k. Slot was $315,200. That’s a healthy bump that he turned down.

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  25. So now there’s this:

    Aaron Fitt ‏@aaronfitt 27m

    One agent: “As of today, Phillies are out. Phillies are not getting into any more of our households. We’re shutting down all communications”

    Aaron Fitt ‏@aaronfitt 30m

    Hearing from one agent after another today about the Ben Wetzler situation. There will be repercussions for the Phillies.

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      1. it will have no bearing on that at all. The 7th pick in draft is slotted and will gladly take that money. This ridiculous situation is only applicable to mid and lower round picks who are highly highly not to even make it to ML.

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        2. Tell that to a Tyler Beede, who may now tell the Phillies….’don’t draft me’…I will not sign, ala JD Drew in ’97

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    2. Of course an agent would say that. Agents have the most to lose under this stupid NCAA rule. I highly doubt every prospect will refuse to talk the Phillies. The lure of money is just too much for some and, to be fair, the Phillies actually offered Wetzler over slot.

      In a few years all of this will be forgotten… unless they get rid of that stupid rule.

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      1. Agree that it could be a lot less widespread than one might think. If the universities block the scouts out, that might be a bigger deal, but I see that being far less likely, except at Wetzler and Monda’s schools. If I’m the OSU athletic director, The Phillies took away one of my starters. There are 29 other teams that can access my players, and The Phils scouts can buy a ticket and sit in the bleachers to see my team.

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        1. I really believe there is more to it. The phillies obviously had players not sign with them in past and didn’t feel the need to ‘go there’. I also would not be surprised to see more ML teams start to do more of it going forward until NCAA changes that rule.

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    3. Have you ever thought that Mr. Fitt or Baseball America could be wrong on this story or do you believe everything you read or hear? We should let the whole story come out before making any conclusions.

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      1. I agree with you about reserving judgement, but each hour that passes without Amaro or Woelver addressing this, the worse it looks. That said, their hands could be tied. It may be that the NCAA has asked them not to comment on the investigation while it is ongoing. It may be that there is a threat of litigation. It may also be that they are in a bad position either way, that telling their side would require them to slime this kid and his agent, which might look even worse.

        I agree that it looks really bad for the Phillies to be ratting these kids out, if indeed that’s what happened. I agree with the general proposition that the NCAA is horrible and exploitative. I also know there’s a lot of seamy (no pun intended) stuff that happens between agents and collegiate players in all sports, and I wouldn’t presume that either side is blameless before we know more. It’s quite possible that there were some legitimately questionable activities. But most of all: we don’t know. Let’s not presume we can draw conclusions yet.

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        1. I’m not touchy, really, but I am baffled as to why this would merit a down arrow? Who is this person among us who is against withholding judgement until we get all the facts? And why does he not have a radio show yet?

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  26. Two sides to every story. What I want to know is they knew back in August they were not going to sign this kid when the deadline happened. Why did they wait until November to turn them in? Something must have been said to them by another agent or something that had them seeing Red (and not Phillies red). Can’t wait to see the Phillies side of this because right now it looks really bad for them

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    1. Agree. Agents are concerned with one thing………….getting the most money possible for their clients. If the Phillies offer 50K over slot and the agent thinks this is a great deal, he is not going to turn it down due to this recent event. Never. Same goes for HS kids and their parents. They will never turn down 1Mill+ because it is the Phillies.

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  28. Any chance it was same scout from Phillies for both players? And he was spiteful one or one trying to keep his job?

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  29. I suspect there is more to the story.

    As much as we like to make fun of Rube and co. they do run a Major League Baseball team. So while we may disagree with them they are clearly not dumb. The team would have clearly understood the potential ramifications associated with the decision when they made it.

    Even if the front office are not capable baseball executives, at worst they tricked ownership in to hiring them, which would signify being smart enough to understand the potential ramifications.

    This suggests the team doubts there will be long lasting effects or they will be minimal.

    Time will tell if that is true or not. Remember that those indicating how it is so bad for the Phillies stand to benefit from this sounding worse (agents want to represent draftees, potential future draftees could use it as leverage to get the team to pay more, other teams would like to see a rival have a seeker competitive position, etc).

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  30. the whole slotting system and allotted money is totally fucked. Because a player doesnt sign we lost the money… money we could of used to push for Biggio if it were actually available. It was probably on the agent not the player who asked for more money after being drafted. Phillies unfortunately didnt take the high road here and screwed the kid over.

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    1. bob if that were the case of just sour grapes the player didn’t sign with them…the phillies wouldn’t have done this a long time ago because every year they have unsigned players. The worm has turned for Ruben so now everything is held in negative light. If this went down during their world series run…we would be applauding them for sending a message to future slimy agents.

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  31. Wow…do the Phillies really just not understand the draft process? This is a real pissy move on their part. I’ve always thought the Phillies Org was very classy (outdated, but classy), but this shines a new light. As a Phillies fan – I feel dirty.

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  32. For what it’s worth someone called WIP this morn and claimed to be an agent. He said that the the Phils “may” not have anything to do with this. It could be a scout who may of lost his job with org. over this. Maybe he had an ax to grind. It’s possible he could’ve tipped someone off. The other scenario he painted was maybe a paper trail with an agent. I think that’s far fetched means its 2 Phils picks.
    I’m not saying this is the case but just reporting what was said on the radio. Maybe this caught the Phils org by surprise and that’s why they couldn’t comment. Just throwing it out there

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    1. The idea of a burned scout ratting to harm the org would likely be something Amaro and Co. would acknowledge, at least anonymous-sourced to the likes of Jim Salisbury or other beat guy. It probably would have been online yesterday and in today’s paper. Unless they’re worried about being sued by Wetzler or the theoretical former employee, I don’t see them holding out a whole day to pass the blame to an easy target.

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      1. That may be true but maybe the Phils were caught off guard by this as much as anyone else. Maybe they’re trying to figure out where this all started before saying anything. Not saying it’s the case but it’s certainly possible. The more I read and hear on this, it just makes less and less sense for someone like Amaro or Wohlver to to do this. I just can’t get over how stupid that would be if they did.

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  34. Seems like a smart analysis here:

    http://sbb.scout.com/2/1377731.html

    Key conclusion: “We can’t be sure about it this early, but the collateral damage here is looking surprisingly low for all the bluster and shocking nature of the story when it broke. Some analysts (myself included) gave the Phillies some grief on twitter and there will likely be barbs directed at them in the industry for another year or two, but nothing that significantly damages how the Phillies do their jobs.”

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    1. Nothing happened to the Blue Jays either, also 4/5 years ago. No big deal.
      Scott Boras, Jimmy Paxton’s parents and Jimmy Paxton all moved on…he pitched in an Indy Leaggue got drafted again and is now pitching for the Mariners and everyone is happy.
      Wetzler , if good enough, can pitch in an Indy League, if Oregon nixs his senior year, then he can get drafted again like Paxton and go into a farm system.

      I really don’t see all the hoopla from the naysayer bloggers.

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      1. The big difference…JP Ricciardi did not come out and tell everybody what theydid And it would appear Ruben being mum on it, may have not been the one to spill the beans anyway, especially if it was a disgruntled fired-scout from that area who may have did it.
        Who knows? Just speculation at this point.

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