Phils Lose Two on Waivers

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Two casualties today on the waiver wire for the Phils whose pitching “depth” takes a hit.  Early today Pitcher Raul Valdes was claimed off of waivers by the Houston Astros.  Valdes went 1-1 with a 7.46 ERA in several trips up to Philly during the year. Later in the afternoon, Tyler Cloyd, 26 was picked up by the Cleveland Indians after he was removed from the 40 man roster by the Phillies. CLoyd, who was the Phillies 18th round draft pick in 2008 struggled this year going 2-7 with a 6.56 ERA with the Phillies during 13 appearances (11 starts) with the big club. 

I am not surprised that the Phillies removed either player from the 40 man roster as it was clear that neither was the answer to provide reliable depth for the club moving forward.

35 thoughts on “Phils Lose Two on Waivers”

  1. I don’t see either player as a loss. There is equally good to be had on the waiver wire and among AAAA minor league FA. This allows more semi-prospects to be protected. These guys are representative of the sea of totally fungible AAAA guys who are available in the off season.

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  2. Cloyd’s awesome 2012 in AAA left a glimmer of hope. Unfortunate, as I like to root for the pitchability guys over the flamethrowers. Cloyd might have made it as an average 5th starter.

    But alas the Phillies should have just traded him for anything (he and Valle rumored for WIlton Lopez). As Lopez pitched 75 games this year about as well/poorly as Mike Adams and was much cheaper. Certainly, a rumored opportunity missed.

    .

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    1. Lopez was not very good this year (even figuring in Coors Field into the equation) but it’s true that Valle and Cloyd would have made it a very low-cost acquisition. If’s a big what-if–if they make that trade, does Amaro redeploy some of that payroll toward signing a better RF option that Delmon Young? And who would that have been? They seem never to have shown much interest in the likes of Swisher.

      Anyway, you can’t say the season turned on the decision.

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      1. We sign Swisher…JP Crawford is in another org.
        Who would you have liked to have-Swisher or Crawford?

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  3. If I may paraphrase from the story on the MLBTR on both of these losses, Cloyd’s Fielding Independent Pitching numbers suggest his abnormally high , Batting Average on Balls in Play , and paltry strand rate, hyper inflated his Earned Run Average. And Valdes’ peripherals also inflated his Earned Run Average, So ALL the REAL stats guys know they’re REALLY GOOD!

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    2. Yeah I saw that too. My peripherals would be bad in the majors too. Cloyd would get his tits knocked off against a JuCo team. It ain’t got nothing to do with peripherals.

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    3. Whether this is meant seriously or as a back handed dig at advanced statistical analysis…

      Cloyd’s peripherals (and thus FIP and xFIP) are bad, albeit not as bad as his ERA. Ignore the ERA and he’s still not worth keeping.

      Valdes is a slightly different case, but his FIP and xFIP are not “really good;” they’re just okay. And keep in mind as a reliever, he SHOULD have better FIP, xFIP, and ERA than a starter. Based on the peripherals, you really can almost make a case that he was someone they maybe should have held onto … but there’s a million guys out there like Valdes, he’s 35 years old, he’s a guy who (in admittedly a small sample) has throughout his career under-performed his peripherals, and there are only 40 roster spaces available.

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      1. In the case of Valdes, I wonder if he did something to piss off management. He wasn’t called up in September, even though (as it turned out) the team could have really used an innings-eating swingman for some of those bullpen games. Something must have happened. Otherwise, why not have him in the bullpen, since you’re paying him?

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  4. cloyd. i will drive him to cleveland, he stinks, If those two guys are loses, we really are worst than i thought, they shouldnt be top 40 on this team,

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    1. yes he is probably not a quality every 5th day guy, but dude worked hard to get himself as far as he has with his skill set , and apparently he was a pretty stand up individual. good luck to you Cloyd, and remember 45 days in the MLB get you life time healthcare .

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          1. From the interweb:

            Major League Baseball (“MLB”) offers one of the best pension and healthcare programs in all of sports. Players vest in their pensions after 43 days on the active roster and just one day qualifies a player for lifetime healthcare. Playing isn’t even a requirement, benchwarmers may qualify for benefits as well. After 43 days, players qualify for the minimum benefit of $34,000 per year and those with 10 years of service receive a pension of approximately $100,000 annually. In 2010, the MLB Players’ Pension Plan reported assets of over $1.3 billion for approximately 8,200 participant

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            1. That goes a long way to explaining why so many guys hang on as AAAA players in the minors. I’m sure they also really love being baseball players, but these bennies relieve the fear that they are just indulging themselves and harming the rest of their lives. This year we saw Tuffy Gosewich and that 100-mph the Phillies had in the GCL almost two decades ago got into major league games. A nice reward for hanging in there.

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  7. I was fooled by Cloyd last year and hoped he might be a fifth starter, long relief option. As someone who didn’t understand why the FO was so lukewarm on him I now realize they occasionally do know what they are talking about. He was dismal every time I saw him this year. Certainly not a great loss. Which pitchers might be available at number seven?

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  9. Well it was fun to follow Cloyd up through the system. He was an interesting guy when he was drafted since he was an off the board pick who had left school the previous year. I hope he has more success in the future than he had this year.

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  10. It seems likely that the Phils requested waivers on Monday on more than just these two. They recalled Gillies then, but did not recall Aumont, Valle, Collier. I suspect they asked waivers on these three, and they weren’t claimed. If I’m right, they’ll shortly show up as outrighted. Then there’s J.C. Ramirez and MiniMart; I wouldn’t be surprised to see them announced as outrighted, too. Seven is the daily limit on waiver requests; it might make sense to submit all the no-brainer requests at once.

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    1. Despite Aumont’s obvious issues he has great stuff and should have value to some team if the Phillies are giving up on him. I think Valle is also worth keeping until his options run out since he is still a young catcher with possible power.

      Should have some interesting decisions for end of the 40man.

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    2. dreadful stockpile of arms and bats. I would just put all of Lehigh and half of Reading on waiver.

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    4. I looked at the 40 , and if you see the guys on the 60 day DL who need to be placed back on the 40, I think you need to clear at least 4 spots from now. The guys I pulled off were 8 in number, without getting to the at least mildly promising group above. I got: Casper Wells, Roger Beradina, Pete Orr, Michael Martinez, J. C. Ramirez, Then I added Frandsen, and Gillies and Collier. What I see for adding to the 40 for the Rule 5 in December would be Dugan, Altherr, and Mike Nesseth. That leaves one open spot ,, by my calculations, and then they could add one through the Rule 5 draft, either, hopefully, a starting position player or pitching candidate.

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      1. Another to bounce off of the 40, might be John Lannan, through non-tendering. In the Scenario laid out above, they might keep Frandsen through the offseason, instead.

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    1. If by Zack you mean Zagurski, he was pitching down the stretch this year for the Yankees. He is still playing.

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  12. Matt Gelb reports:
    No Paul Owens Award-winning pitcher since Cole Hamels in 2003 (other than Severino Gonzalez, this year’s honoree) remains in the Phillies organization. The list:

    2012: Tyler Cloyd
    2011: Trevor May
    2010: Scott Mathieson
    2009: Kyle Drabek
    2008: J.A. Happ
    2007: Mike Zagurski
    2006: Carlos Carrasco
    2005: Robinson Tejeda
    2004: Scott Mitchinson
    ————-an indictment of a pitching rich organization!

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    1. Well to be fair, Carrasco was dealt to get Cliff Lee, Happ to get Oswalt, and Drabek to get Halladay. When you are dealt to get Cy Young quality pitchers in return, I don’t think that is much of an indictment on the farm.

      That said, parts of that list are brutal.

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      1. Since 2006, it’s actually not so bad. Drabek and Carrasco, as you said, brought back huge returns in trades. Happ was a useful pitcher while he was here and part of the trade that brought back Oswalt. Mathieson was very promising until the string of injuries. May, Cloyd and Zagurski are definitely not prospects, but May won his in the year that Cosart was traded, and …. well, what is the Paul Owens Award anyway? It’s given to the pitcher who shows the best minor league results, which is a poor barometer of pitching talent.

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        1. May is still a prospect. His star has certainly faded but there is still mid to back of the rotation stuff and if that fails he could be an impact reliever, at the time he won the award he was ranked the #69 prospect in baseball.

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          1. Actually I agree, I don’t know why I phrased it that way. I should have said Cloyd and Zagurski are not prospects and May won his in the year Cosart was traded and could still turn out to be something, it’s too soon to tell.

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            1. Bottom line. Both pitchers will never play on mlb championship teams. Clearly one of many future changes to come

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