Box Score Recap – 7/6/2013

Darin Ruf got the call to the bigs today when Ryan Howard went on the DL. Back on the farm, Maikel Franco goes deep again – his fifth at AA in 16 games. Larry Greene with his second bomb of the year. 6 pretty strong innings from Mitch Gueller – 2R, 7H, 1 BB and 3k – a nice bounceback after he couldn’t get out of the third inning last outing. 1st Round Pick JP Crawford with 4 hits and 3rd rounder Jan Hernandez with his first professional homerun.

Here’s the affiliate Scoreboard from MiLB.



106 thoughts on “Box Score Recap – 7/6/2013

  1. SSS, and all that; but Crawford does carry a much better glove than Quinn. Crawford is only a step and a half behind Quinn, for level’s sake. With Quinn expected back in play in 30 plus days, and the catching-up to do, it seems that Quinn–with his leaky glove and throwing errors–could quickly lose his hoped-for status of the next Phils SS of ’16’/17’/18.

    That Crawford, with his supposed good SSing, has adapted to pro ball’s offense expectations leads me to wonder how long it will be before Quinn is stationed between RF & LF.

    A pleasant thought to ponder while the big club’s season disaster continues.

    Viva Crawford…and the Phils for choosing/signing him.

    P.S. Amazing how many draftees have signed quickly compared to the past. (Remember how few early Phils choices signed so late, in bargaining, that they lost the entire year of pro ball?) Moving up the final signing date has allowed more draftees to begin their pro careers in the year drafted so as to get SOME pro experience which could slightly move them ahead more rapidly.

    1. Again Im completely stoked on Crawford , and have been wondering what it will be like to have possible the two best prospects on a team that play the same position, and such a valuable position at that , although I have been toned down by some who have given valid points on player development . However no way is Quinn put into any other position in the outfield other than Centerfield , right , I mean maybe they put him at second base but I dont think that is where his future lies either , I think he returns to CF , unless he has a major turn around and stops the errors at short. Wait did i tell you was I was excited about Crawford , well I am , and it is good to see ballplayers that want to play rather than what has seemed like the scott borassing of the world, when he is trying to squeeze every dime out of every situation.

        1. I had saw BJ Upton come up in Tampa Bay’s system. Obviously, he was the #2 pick in the draft and top 10 prospect in baseball but, in 2004 he hit .327 in AA before getting a midseason call to AAA, from there he hit .311 and got a September call-up in ’04 he had 35 errors in 86 games. He was sent down to work on fielding and told that they would not bring him up until he could catch the ball. He spent all of 2005, and 2006 in AAA committing 81 errors, 45 in the 1st half of ’05. They began the transition of moving him from SS to CF in 2005. I know how BJ is doing now, but my point is, that Quinn should stay at SS as long as possible, the errors will be there, but if they ease him very slowly into CF, everything will work out. By the time he is ready to play center everyday, Crawford should be ready at SS. Same thing was done with Upton in a way. They moved him out of 3B in ’06 once some kid named Longoria was ready to play.

          Some people are a little too eager to make changes, these kids are 20. It is a process and as much as we want things in life as soon as possible, prospects just don’t work that way.

          1. Totally forgot to add the biggest part. In the transition from SS/3B to CF for Upton, it was all done off to the side during BP/Spring Training/Offseason. He was Tampa’s starting CF in 2007 having never played a MILB game in the OF. It is all about the FO trust in Quinn’s ability to learn and adapt IMO

            1. I totally forgot about BJ playing shortstop , and man is he struggling this year ,im just glad its not in red pinstripes

    2. I’m also glad to see Crawford off to a hot start in his pro debut, but let’s not forget that he’s not being asked to a.) learn a new position, and b.) learn to switch hit. I’d imagine Crawford is much more relaxed and comfortable than Quinn has been.

      1. Interesting….why not try his hand at switching. Biug league left-handers could give him trouble.

    3. If Quinn comes back and exhibits same poor footwork and throwing accuracy…I would move him to OF.

        1. my point is that Quinn becomes a progress stopper for Crawford possibly in few months. Forget Quinn defense for minute because its more about if his bat even plays going forward. His offensive number regression could be spillover from confusion in field. Continue on SS path and I think Phillies are in danger of loosing him as prospect all together.

    1. I believe he tweeted it a couple days ago. Really nice addition, I thought that he would have really benefitted by staying at OSU.

    2. This does not belong in the daily boxscore section, please remove and repost in the draft section.

      1. Chill. Dan Child is about to be a minor leaguer. What’s your problem with mentioning it here?

  2. Logan Pierce is straight raking in Williamsport. Old for the league, any chances of getting time in Lakewood in August, or 2014 double jump candidate with Knapp?

    1. I hope they test him this year Evan. If they don’t, I suspect they have very little in terms of expectations for him. Even if he doubles next year, he’ll still be old for the level.

    2. I don’t see him getting to Lakewood. Lots of dominoes would have to fall. Art Charles would have to be promoted, which means Serritella would have to be promoted which means Jim Murphy would have to be promoted. My guess is the team you see in Williamsport isn’t going to change too much. I think they’d rather have guys here and make them play in a pennant chase than to go to Lakewood and play for nothing. I believe learning to win is a part of development and this Williamsport team has a chance to win.

      1. Agree that they probably won’t move him up this year, but on the MILB website Pierce is listed as a 3B. If he can actually play there, then it would just take Carmona moving up and H-Mart resuming DH/bench duties like when Franco was there.

        1. Nvm, forgot Walding was playing 3B in Lakewood. Pierce wouldn’t have to/ be allowed to play 3B if he was moved up, unless he was double jumped like Brian said. Still, they could promote Carmona and change Martinez’ role.

      2. He played third in college, maybe they’ll switch him back there once he gets away from Green. Of course, then he’d run into Walding in A. Maybe they double jump Pierce to Clearwater, keep Mitch in Lakewood, and say F U to HMart?

        Also, damn, we have a lot of legit 3B prospects.

    3. Logan Pierce is merely the college-bat lineup protection, which they draft (rightfully so) a few of every year. We don’t need to get all worked up every time a college bat that is two-years overage is hitting well while playing a non-premium position.

  3. Gueller moving towards top 10 quickly with a great bounce back start LGJ showing some life. Congrats to Ruf! Crawford looks good to start… It’s goog seeing Perkins back in the lineup and he’s still hitting. A good month and he’ll be at Reading too. Milner with a terrific game, how do you explain the few terrible starts though? He’s either been very good or very bad, nothing in between.

  4. Greene Jr hit a monster home run tonight. But he looks god awful in left field. I’m not sure why any NL team would draft a guy with his “skill set”

    1. They were enamored with the tool that produced that monster home run. Unfortunately, they haven’t come nearly as often as the org hoped.

    2. while he has certainly been far from what the Phillies and all of us on here had hoped for, he has pulled his average up to .228. He was at what – around .180 a few weeks ago? Nothing to write home about, but at least there is a glimmer of light (now, it is probably only a 20 watt bulb, but there is a flicker of optimism).

      As an aside – I went to a baseball card show – picked up 4 or 5 of his cards today. They ran me 10 cents each. I also picked up some Quinn cards – also in the 10 cent rack. I will put these in there with my Wes Chamberlain cards.

  5. OT: I found Amaro comments interesting and disturbing at same time. Ask about how much of Ryan Howard troubles are injury vs hitting approach. Amaro response was 50-50. Still cant get over how spot on keith law was about that signing at time:

    “This is one of the worst extensions of its kind — it’s an overpay in both years and dollars. Howard is one of the last guys in the middle of the lineup I’d give that kind of money, too. He’s 30, has a bad body, is not a good defender, and has struggled to make contact versus lefties — he’s gone backwards in that area over the past couple of years. If you were locking him up through age 31, it’s not so bad. How happy are you if you’re Albert Pujols? If Howard is worth $25 million, Pujols is worth $50 million a year.”

    1. As much as we do not appreciate laws comments at times, he is usually brutally honest, which gets me so excited that he likes Franco and our most recent draft class. I think most of us were concerned when Ruben gave all that money to Howard for no good reason.

    2. Not going to belabor the point, wrong thread for it, but it’s interesting that, setting aside the bad small moves, the stupid comments that come out of his mouth, and the basic lack of direction of the organization, the big missteps of the Amaro regime are only two, but they were doozies – the Howard contract and the trade for Pence.

      1. Charlie leaves in October and Ruben then becomes the next to go in October 2014. He will get a year probabtion to produce a play-off team.

        1. Love how RAJ has no five year plan and admits it. Let’s see how long has RAJ now been in charge – oh wait, 5 years, coincidence? In my line of work, if my organization consistently got worse and then I publicly stated I don’t have a 5 year plan, I’d be walked out the door by our executives.

        2. No. 2014 is just about a write off and the owners must know this in their guts. Ruben has at least until 2015 to turn things around. Given the normal owner inertia, I think they give him until 2016.

      2. Larry, I think that is very accutate, though I would throw another dozzie in there. Signing Papps a week to soon and thus losing a first round draft choice. I dont mind the signing persay, though i think buying a Bently and not leaving yourself any money for gas is a whole other topic, just the timing of the signing. Of all his moves that one shows the most straight incompetence IMO. Its not like he was trying to get in quick and undercut the market. How nice would it be to have one more first rounder in the system.

      3. Actually, it could be argued that the biggest misstep was the first Lee trade. Halladay and Lee and Hamels in the rotation back in 2010 could easily have resulted in another World Championship. It also might have prevented the Howard contract, as there would have been less money available, the trade for Oswalt and possibly even the trade for Pence. Unfortunately, woulda coulda and shoulda don’t have much value.

      4. I would add the Paps signing for the same reasons Steve pointed out. I would add the Lee trade because although it was mandated by ownership getting back one prospect ranked in the back end of the Top 100 who was a reliever was pathetic. I would add the Ibanez signing not because it was excessive in terms of money and length (it was) but because Amaro completely misjudged the market and it began a foreseeable shift from a balanced line-up into a lineup so lefty heavy the first Pence deal became necessary.

    3. I think Keith Law wrote the same thing about Albert Pujols a few years later , how average he was his first year and how below average he is this year with a stout 245 average and an 0.6 war , if he doubles that this year , the Angels will have paid 20 million for what is essentially one win , and wait Howards contract will be up and he will be gone , mean while the Angels will still be rolling Pujols out there when he is 42, probably with the help of a walker. The Howard deal was a mistake , all organizations make them , atleast we didnt trade his replacement away for half a season for some right fielder with absolutely no plate discipline and a funky throwing motion

      1. Howard’s contract would not have been a mistake if Ruben decided to go $19/20M per year ilo of the $25M. Ruben felt a need to set another bar for first basemen.

        1. Then it would be an over pay or only 95 to 100 million rather than an overpay of 25 million.

          Can’t blame Amaro for all of that – he didn’t sever Howard’s Achilles tendon. Just probably 95% of it. It will be the most expensive contract in history for a player who contributes zero net value over the course of the contract.

          The only question at this point is how it plays out. He won’t just retire because no one is going to give up 10s of millions of dollars. But he is done.

            1. Fair enough I guess. But were I a general manager, I would not take him for free if his whole salary was paid. Nothing personal, but even in the AL with the DH I don’t think there is room on a roster for a player who can’t play the field and can’t hit left handers.

              But maybe I’m wrong about that, or maybe there’s a GM out their who thinks I’m wrong. Still, how much value does a guy who can only DH, and only DH against right handers, have? A heck of a lot less than 19 to 20 million dollars a year.

            2. I generally agree with you, but GM’s get stupid when they get desperate. Who would have thought that not one but two GM’s would trade for Vernon Wells.

          1. Amaro’s big problem was pulling the trigger almost 2 years too early. If we had waited until Howard’s free agency year it would have been after the achilles injury. There were also signs of Howard playing hurt that entire year. There was no reason to do that contract early to keep Howard happy unless the Phillies got a discount, which did not happen.

            1. Exactly, not to mention, if Ryan Howard had played out those years and NOT torn his achillees heel, he would not have gotten more than 5 years, $25M per year that off season. RAJ is a disgrace at his job.

            2. Amaros mistake was thinikng that Howard was going to get Pujois type money after the first contract expired even though he had already been exposed against lefties and the shift before the extension was even offered.

  6. Does anybody know the plan with Tommy Joseph? With the way he’s been struggling at the plate since his return, I’d imagine he’ll be staying in Reading for the foreseeable future, but I haven’t seen this stated by anyone in the Phils brass.

    1. Every time read about Joseph, the thought that Amaro got fleeced twice comes to mind.

        1. This

          The guy turns 22 in a week, and has already spent time in AAA. Give him some time.

      1. Again the disconnect between what some people around here expect for a (in this case mediocre) veteran player with little team control and a not terribly favorable contract situation. Getting a prospect in the high minors with the upside of a average regular for Pence was actually a good result. Of course he came with questions marks (questions still not answered). That’s why he was available for a guy like Pence.

        To some extent that just compounds the badness of the original deal.

        1. Along the same lines, did you guys see the pitifully low return for Nolasco? Granted, he has less trade value than some of the Phillies veterans, but he’s a solid starter in a season where the there aren’t many on the market. And the Marlins got two unexciting relief prospects and a lottery ticket who most likely will ALSO end up as an unexciting relief pitcher.

  7. Best of luck to Darin Ruf. I know most of the people here wish him to fail due to his advanced age and less than stellar stats this year at AAA, but I hope he proves everyone wrong. Often times hitters will hit better when they get to the bigs than at AAA for a wide variety of reasons, not that I can moneyball that into something that can be understood here.

    David $$$ Montgomerey and Middleton no doubt will be rooting for him so they can pay their 1st baseman the ML minimum for the next several years. Should have signed Nick $wisher.

    1. Look, no one wants him to fail. Disagree if you want to about the age thing (in the larger sense I think the evidence is against you, but in the specific case of Ruf who knows). But at least give the people who are skeptic the benefit of taking them at their word about the basis of their opinions.

      As for the rest – and the tone – I won’t get all thin skinned this time, but the fact that some people think that the vicious, rude nastiness to a whole group of posters – including most of the people who run the site – is just appalling. And shameful.

    2. And as for the “play better in the majors than in AAA,” that argument is so bad it isn’t even wrong. Look, it is true that, over the long history of baseball, you can certainly find players for whom that is true. (And as many more by probably two orders of magnitude for whom it is not true).And we all hope that is true for Ruf! Of course one of the most common reasons it is sometimes true is young prospects who keep improving after reaching the majors. That one doesn’t apply to Ruf. The other does – sample size. Maybe his number so far in AAA don’t reflect his true talent.

      But here’s the thing. I was actually fairly bullish on his hitting before this year, with the caveat that obviously the people who thought he was going to hit .300/.360/.600 in the majors were kidding themselves. But I thought .260/.320/.500 was possible, and that’s not bad. And maybe it’s still possible. But his half year in AAA, while not by itself determinative, is additional evidence – part of his whole body of work, which includes, yes, his performance last year but also includes the fact that he will turn 27 later this month.

      Now, of course, “anything is possible.” But you can make that argument about virtually ANY minor league prospect. Given the options, Ruf absolutely deserves his shot, and no one wants to piss on that. And but for your nasty, rude comment, I wouldn’t be saying the following: his chances of any real success in the major leagues is probably at this point lower than 20%. I really hope he beats the odds though!

      1. And for the record, I actually DO think he has a very good chance of out performing his AAA numbers. By how much is the question. He’ll need to outperform them by quite a bit to have any kind of long term success.

      2. Off to a real nice start in 5 PA though. Means nothing, but I’m certainly happy for him.

    3. What an asinine comment. Ruf was having a poor year in AAA. He is old for AAA. A lot of us still wanted him to be our LF, rather than having D Young on the team. Most fans are rooting for Ruf to succeed. What does how well he does have to do with having an NL minimum 1B. We have a $25 mill 1B. So, you want Ruf to have a shot, but we should have signed Swisher, which would leave Ruf in the minors.

    1. Most interesting part of the clip was the announcer saying Keith law was there mainly to watch Franco. I think some usually question if the national guys even watch the guys live, well now we know that klaw has seen Franco live at least once

      1. Law has moved to the east coast recently so expect more Phillies prospect related reports from him. Just a note overall, Law won’t write up a guy (except on his Top 50/100) that he has not seen in person.

        1. Can someone please explain to me why we care what Keith Law says about Franco? Another question I have is what credentials does Law have? Is he or was he a professional scout? Did he play at a high level? Is he simply a student/watcher of baseball? I’m not trying to be sarcastic, I really want to know and understand where his knowledge comes because it seems there are a lot of people who care what this guy thinks about our prospects.

          1. Former member of the Blue Jays front office as a numbers guy, converted to more of a scouting approach while there (with good mathematical fundamentals). He now scouts and compiles reports for ESPN, he has been offered quite a few head scouting/development jobs in major league front offices. He is one of the best scouting minds not in baseball.

            Like any human he has biases and makes mistakes, so it is a very good opinion but not gospel.

            1. Good to know. So do you feel his opinions on prospects are more stat driven based on his numbers background – a la Moneyball? Or has he truly developed an eye for scouting?

  8. Ethan Mrtin:
    Once he gets better on his command,” Burris said, “I think you’ll see a young man long-term, down the road, that can be a horse in a rotation.” Martin and the Lehigh Valley coaching staff attribute the turnaround to Martin’s own ability to forget. He has always possessed enough tools. His fastball hovers around 93 m.p.h. and tops out at 96. He has confidence in four pitches, with a sharp slider, a curveball, and a split-finger change-up. But he labored often and couldn’t find the proper tempo. He didn’t make adjustments. And most of all, each walk echoed in his head.
    “It was kind of like, aw dang, there’s two balls already,” Martin said. “Don’t make another mistake because then you’re going to get a walk.”

    1. I have heard this before too, he overthrows his pitches at times, which makes him come out of his delivery. Otherwise he is athletic with a nice repeatable delivery.

      1. Matt, do you see Ethan Martin as a backend reliever with his 96 mph fastball or the Phillies trying to develop him into a solid starter?

        1. I don’t think they’ll do that until they absolutely have to. I think they’ll wait until his 3rd option year before they even consider it.

        2. Yeah he is a high leverage guy with two 70 grade pitches. The control won’t be as big of problem if you tell him to just let it fly. He has two more option years left and I don’t see them putting him in the bullpen until after 2014 unless they need a high leverage reliever on the major league level. A #3 starter is more valuable then a reliever

          1. What are the 70 grade pitches to which you refer? I agree his curve is a 70 pitch (it’s a nasty looper – not as good as Biddle’s which I would grade at 75/80, but 70 is a fair grade), but his fastball is probably 60/65 – it has above average speed, but does not have a ton of movement and command of that pitch is average, at best. In short, I didn’t see him throw any pitch except the curve that was close to a 70 score and I have seen several Martin starts on video. Now, if Martin adds 1 or 2 MPH to the fastball, I might reconsider, but for now, the fastball is not a 70 pitch. Was there some other pitch you saw him throw that might merit that grade? I can’t recall any other pitch he had that anything more than about a 50 or a 55.

            1. Out of the bullpen the fastball should play as a 70 pitch. I suspect he would sit 95-97 touching 98 and the command would not be as big an issue if he his down to 2 pitches and not worrying about the counts his other pitches are getting him into.

            2. I hear you, but that’s a lot of projection. Rosenberg and Ramirez also throw 95-97 touching 98 and neither has a fastball that I would rate as a 70. That said, I agree that Martin has better mechanics and a more repeatable motion than those two, but, right now, a 70 FB seems to be no more than an outside projection for Martin. But, as a reliever the FB would play well off the curve which is a 70 pitch.

  9. There’s 5 young guys in the AAA lineup that have a legit shot at sticking in the big leagues. How long’s it been since we could say that?

  10. I see the 2013 draft as the first of this new approach, which puts more weight on current baseball skills. Guys like Quinn, Cozens, Larry Greene each possess a single potential 7 tool, with current the rest of their current skills/tools far below average and in need of years of development. This 2013 crop lacks the single dominant tool, but have present skills which could develop into above-average.

    For all the talk about the Phillies love of tools, they really didn’t draft a lot of 5 tool talents. They took athletes who could run and throw. I wish they took even “toolsier” guys who possessed multiple baseball skills.

  11. In Greensboro right now watch Severino Gonzalez pitch. 6th Inning, he has allowed 2 runs, 1 BB, and 5 K’s (I think). Two runs were a Sac Fly and Triple. Has stayed around 89-92, touching 94 once.

    1. Jon Roof also had a BLAST to LF and Tocci had a nice double, he is much faster than I expected, good routes in CF for his age. Leading off today

      1. Severino just allowed a two-run homer to G-Boro’s monster cleanup hitter, a shot to right. His day is over, 5.1 IP 4 runs 5 hits a walk and 5 k’s. 2.35 ERA now.

  12. At the IronPigs/Railriders game today: Asche looked good off of a journeyman left hander, two sharply hit singles. Don’t let the stolen base fool you, he should have been picked off, and the defense stalwart Randy Ruiz threw the ball away from first.

    Galvis was pressing at the plate, zero patience. Cesar with two hits, but also appeared overly aggressive at the plate, swinging at very bad pitches as well.

    Overbeck thrown out trying to score from 2nd on a single with two outs. I was even yelling stop, cause I knew he wouldn’t make it. He is someone with 20 speed.

    No real pitching highlights since Cochran and his 86 mph fastball pitched, and they got Mike MacDougal from the scrap bin and he threw two innings.

    1. When I saw a spring training game and some BP it astonished me how lackadaisical Galvis treated his BP time. Didn’t look serious at all and he was popping up a lot. It was by far the worst BP out of all the people there. Obviously this was just one time and it was months ago but I have to wonder a little if this is something that he carries over to his preparation all the time. And if it doesn’t negatively impact his progress with the bat.

    2. Wolfie, thanks for the Iron Pigs review and comments. Is there any chance that Mike McDougal can help the Phillies at all? It sounds like Cesar Hernadez and Cody Asche are almost ready for the big show and Freddie Galvis should stay down in AAA to develop some plate patience.

  13. Severino Gonzalez moves to 2-0 even without his best stuff, 2.53 ERA now. I have video and reports for tomorrows box.

    1. Thanks Evan. When I saw they were in Greensboro, I was hoping you could report on a game. I’m very appreciative of your efforts.

  14. I don’t know if this was mentioned yet in another thread, but Maikel Franco was named one of the 10 Breakout prospects of the year in an article in Baseball america. In the article it mentions that all of the 10 breakouts from last year are either in the Major Leagues this year, or were part of the Pre-season top 50.
    I guess this means Franco is a strong candidate for top 50 next year.

    1. 203 total bases in 82 games! That is incredible. Franco will be in the top 50 and the major leagues next year.

    2. Franco is actually outperforming Sano, who is currently getting all the hype as a top 5 prospect in all of baseball. Looking at their age, body type, stats and positions, I’m not sure how comparisons can be avoided. Sano walks more but he also strikes out more.

  15. What scares me now is if phillies beat washington 2of 3, Amaro might trade some prospects for relief pitchers, I really dont trust him.

  16. Wondering when Zach Green moves ahead of Mitch Walding. Mitch looks like he needs to repeat Lakewood and Zach doesn’t look entirely ready for double jump to Clearwater so you have log jam at Lakewood. Hopefully by August this resolves itself.

      1. Another issue with Franco may be that those who rate prospects are skeptical (and rightfully so) of statistics put up in Reading, which can be very inflated. Still, I’m a little surprised he’s not in the top 50.

        1. He’s the 2nd youngest player in AA. I think the skeptics are on his swing, not the ballpark.

        2. He made BAs list of 10 just missed guys who have had breakout performances. The scouting reports have not been incredible on Franco despite the results. It is a really unconventional swing and there are going to be doubters until he does it on the major league level

          1. The fact that Mike Olt — he of the .678 OPS as a 24-year-old at AAA — is ranked No. 44 tells me all I need to know about BA’s rankings once they’ve made up their minds about a player. I’m looking forward to following Franco’s career, regardless of how he fares on these lists.

  17. Offseason top 100s. How many Phils will we see on it? Franco and Biddle are virtual locks. Crawford is very likely with a good debut. Morgan is likely out even if he comes back in August. Quinn has regressed some and is now injured. Who might some of the new faces be? I’m thinking it will have to be someone from Williamsport – Zach Green or Dylan Cozens. With a hot finish Watson or Gueller could get some consideration too. Any other candidates?

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