Tyler Cloyd named IL’s Most Valuable Pitcher

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Tyler Cloyd, who has been the model of consistent excellence this year for Lehigh Valley has been named the Most Valuable Pitcher of the International league.  Cloyd, 25, is the winningest pitcher in Minor League baseball this year and set a Lehigh Valley club record for wins.

Cloyd leads the league in WHIP(1.01) and ERA(2.35) and is 2nd in both Wins and opponents batting average. Cloyd has gone six or more innings in 21 of his 22 starts and allowed three or fewer runs 20 times.

Cloyd, an 18th round pick in 2008 is a combined 15-1 with a 2.26ERA this year in 26 combined starts between Reading and Lehigh Valley.

74 thoughts on “Tyler Cloyd named IL’s Most Valuable Pitcher”

    1. I just don’t understand why the organization is so willing to use Kendrick, but we’ve yet to see Cloyd in the majors. We understand, his stuff is not going to blow anyone away. However, since when is that what you’re looking for in a back-of-the-rotation arm? Morgan, Biddle, May, and Pettibone are all at least a year off (maybe less for Pettibone), so what’s the harm in giving Cloyd a look? I fully expect him to be up in September.

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      1. You are making this way too complicated. He’s not up with the big team because they believe (and rightfully so) that their current pitchers are quite a bit better than Cloyd. Cloyd will probably get a Sept. call-up as a favor and try to show that he has the ability to become a middle reliever. It’s not his fault – he just doesn’t throw hard enough. He has an outside chance of being okay for a while, but, more likely than not, he is going to get his rear end kicked pretty badly around South Philly. Sorry to say it, but it’s true.

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      2. I know that nobody wants to admit it or here it, Kyle Kendrick is a BETTER pitcher than Tyler Cloyd, his stuff his better, his results are better, Kendrick is a major league #5 who has been acting as a swing man between the bullpen and rotation. He is maddeningly inconsistent but he is not horrendous nor is he elite. If you think Kendrick has been bad you should not be rooting for Cloyd because his best case scenario is Kendrick.

        That being said it has been an amazing run and it would be nice to see if he can carve out a career as a long man in the future, he just isn’t a starter.

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        1. Kendrick wasn’t very good in the minors. He never struck out 6/9IP above Lakewood until this year. The Phillies starters in 2007, by start:

          Moyer: 33
          Eaton: 30
          Hamels: 28
          Kendrick: 20
          Leiber: 12
          Freddy Garcia: 11
          Lohse: 11
          J D Durbin: 10
          Myers: 3
          J A Happ, John Ennis, Fabio Castro, Zack Segovia: 1 each
          (Really, that team made the playoffs. I swear)

          If the rotation were anywhere near that bad right now Cloyd would have gotten a shot.

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      3. Are you serious? Because Kendrick is better that’s why. Kendrick has better stuff than Cloyd, and he’s gotten big league hitters out. KK’s changeup is vastly improved.

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        1. Absolutely. KK’s change-up is a career changer for him. It’s his first bona fide plus or near plus pitch and it makes everything else he does that much more effective. It also helps that as he’s aged, he’s gained a little velocity. The Kendrick I saw in 2007 sat between 87-89 and touched 90 every so often. The current version sits at 89-91, touching 93. He’s a much, much better pitcher than he once was.

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      4. What gets lost in some of these discussions is this: there are a finite number of major league jobs available, and a finite number of opportunities to “give prospects a look.”

        Set aside differences in evaluating prospects. What many of these discussions come down to is some version of “if you give this kid a chance, who knows, maybe he’ll surprise you.” The problem is, the number of prospects that you can honestly say that about is much larger than the pool of available spots.

        Now, your response might be “what would it hurt to give him a shot this September, when the team is out of contention?” The answer there is that, while it might not hurt much, it won’t help either. Let’s say he comes up and has 4 good starts – would that prove he “deserves” a spot next season? No, for two reasons – sample size, and Cloyd profiles as precisely the kind of pitcher that might have some success his first time through the league, but get rocked once other teams see him a couple times.

        At this point, even Kendrick is a better option than Cloyd for next year. Might Cloyd get a shot next year if there are injuries? Sure. But the Phillies don’t need to “give him look” this September to use him in that role next year. In fact, such a “look” could be counter productive if I am right about Cloyd likely being more effective his first time through the league.

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        1. Who are you really Larrym? Keith Law? Hmmmm…But agreed about Cloyd. Look no further than Worley who has much better stuff than Cloyd. Worley really needs to work on his control and keeping the ball down next year btw.

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  2. Perhaps most Phils fans couldn’t care less about minor league trophies, but when would IL playoffs be over, assuming LV makes it?

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  3. Good for Mr. Cloyd. Somebody should give him a chance at the MLs. If the Phils won’t, then include him in a trade so he can try elsewhere.

    Some time ago, there was a “successful” pitcher (don’t recall his name) who was said to have three pitches: slow, slower, and slowest. So even with a sub-90s fast ball, he could provide a resurrection of our recent lefty slow-ball guy at a much younger age. Love to see him in a Phils uni before this season’s end!

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    2. You can’t use Moyer as a comp for every soft tossing pitcher that puts up good numbers in AAA, the differences are that…
      – Moyer is left handed
      – Moyer’s change up was plus even when everything else was below average
      – Moyer’s command was incredible
      – When Moyer made it to the bigs his stuff was much much better than it was when he was with the Phillies
      Cloyd just doesn’t have the stuff to stick long term in the back of a rotation, can he get by for a while, probably but it will catch up to him very quickly because he will have to always be perfect or he will get crushed.

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    3. Art – name one, and I mean one, youngish, non-knuckleballing right-hander who throws as slow as Cloyd does and had a successful career as a starter. I literally cannot think of one guy. The only person who was righty, threw that slow without a knuckler and was still successful that I can think of is Bruce Sutter. But Sutter had probably the best splitter in major league history and he was a reliever. Cloyd doesn’t have a pitch like that. Help me out, man. Show me some comps. I politely dare you (Greg Maddux doesn’t count for reasons that others have explained ad nauseum).

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      1. “name one, and I mean one, youngish, non-knuckleballing right-hander who throws as slow as Cloyd does and had a successful career as a starter.”

        Shawn Marcum

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        1. That’s actually the first time anyone has come up with a comp for Cloyd that makes any real sense (in the sense of a right handed starter with comparable velocity when he broke in).

          Still not buying it. Aside from the fact that that is one pitcher in all of major league baseball, take a look at Marcum’s minor league K numbers. Slow speed aside, Marcum was at least missing a lot of bats in the minor leagues. Cloyd not so much.

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            1. LOL!!! Man, you have to relax. All I was asking for was a comp. I didn’t denigrate you and I didn’t even criticize you. I presented you with a challenge (I even added the word “politely”), which you chose to disregard (everyone else came up with a grand total of one, count ’em one, decent comp – Shawn Marcum – that’s it. Arroyo is not a good comp as he threw harder as a younger player and still throws harder than Cloyd. Kennedy throws harder than Cloyd and Tim Hudson was a power pitcher when he was Cloyd’s age and still throws harder than Cloyd).

              I also agree that if he has no real long-term chance for success we waste opportunities with a guy who will not be around. It’s the same reason that the team had to ship away Drew Carpenter and countless other guys who had great minor league stuff but not the stuff to retire major league hitters with regularity.

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      2. Hold on there. Did I say he was going to be a good MLB pitcher?

        I did not.
        I said to give him a chance via a Sept call-up. No harm, no foul. The team is not going to the playoffs, right? So, IMO, the guy deserves a chance, that’s all.

        Did I say he was going to be a successful MLB pitcher? No.

        All I said was he deserves a chance…either in Philly or elsewhere. Right? No?

        IMO he is not likely to have a MLB career. But not giving him a chance? That would be horrendous for him, and not being fair.

        Why so quick to criticize? When you don’t even comprehend my post?

        Perhaps you are discontented by my other posts and seek to denigrate all that I say???

        Get a life.

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        1. There’s 5 spots in the Phillies rotation. All 5 are filled up. He isn’t going to get much more than 2-3-4 appearances out of the bullpen, so what’s the point of wasting a 40 man spot on him?

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          1. What does that even mean? A “long look” with a view to .. what? The team doesn’t have a spot in their rotation. The only guy you could argue with a straight face that he could have any chance at all of beating out is Kendrick, and I think Kendrick has justifiably won that spot based upon this year’s performance. Not just on the last 3 starts, but on the totality of his record, supported by visible improvement in his change up (and a consequent large improvement in his K rate). How can a few weeks of spring training provide enough evidence to counter 118 IP at the major league level this season?

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            1. Well assuming Kendrick takes the 5th spot in the rotation next year (Pettibone is an outside possibility to steal it from him, and we might pick up someone like Bedard), then Cloyd could get a look as the long man in the ‘pen. If we pick up (or promote) a fifth starter then Cloyd has no place, though.

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      3. Not comparing the two, but Marcum. According to pitchf/x the fastest he’s ever thrown is 92.5 MPH (his average fastball velocity at it’s peak was ~88). I feel as though if Cloyd really threw himself into a pitch he could throw faster than that by a bit, but even if not he can match Marcum’s average velocity.

        The point stands, though, that successful, slow-throwing righties are very rare.

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          1. Now that is NOT a good comp. He was averaging over 91 mph on his fastball as recently as 2007, his age 31 season.

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            1. Hudson is amazing. He was an excellent hitter in college and wasn’t even the best pitcher on his team. Also Hudson’s movement on his fastball is incredible.

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        3. Ian Kennedy comes to mind as well. He throws a little harder but still averages below 90 on his fastball yet very effective.

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        1. I’m a little young to remember clearly, but I think when he came up he had more velocity than Cloyd does. Also, he has more pitches than Cloyd.

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  4. Cloyd International League AAA pitcher of the year
    Wright Florida State League A+ pitcher of the year
    Ruf Eastern League AA Most valuable Player ….. (soon)
    Not bad for our young guys. Well done !!

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  5. I think we need to distinguish between questions about Cloyd based on his stuff, and questions based on his actual performance.

    He’s never had great stuff, but through most of his career he has still put up good peripherals. His career K/9 is 7.24 and his career BB/9 is 2.05 (by comparison, Kendrick’s was 5.8 / 2.6 in the minors). This year in AAA Cloyd has put up 5.89 / 2.41. His .226 BABIP is the lowest of his career.

    Setting aside the question of whether his stuff will translate to the majors, I’m not sure that his stuff has translated to AAA.

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    1. Well his numbers in his “down” year are still better than KK’s were, so doesn’t that mean he should (theoretically) be able to do KK’s job slightly better than he did? This is not taking into account KK adding a pitch recently and improving in the majors, but it doesn’t have to since before his improvement he was still fine as a long man (the job I am suggesting Cloyd could take).

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    2. Add in his .9 HR/9 in AAA, I agree with you it may not be translating very well.

      With KK being a better option at this point, and Pettibone pressing the issue with comparable peripherals and being younger; I just don’t see Cloyd warranting a roster spot.

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  6. Austin Wright is has been so underrated that he doesn’t even get is own post on winning the FSL Pitcher of the Year award….sad

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  7. What is wrong with having some competition? Let Kendrick, Worley, Cloyd and perhaps Pettibone compete for the #4 and #5 spots. It can begin in Sept and continue into Spring Training.

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  8. The idea that the Phils have no room for Cloyd with 5 starting slots locked up is one dumb argument. Anyone care to name a team that made it through a season using just 5 starters? Thought not.

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      1. Actually, that was Boston in 1948. They were terrific. There were soft throwers like Cloyd then too, but Spahn and Sain were not among them.

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  9. Everyone keeps talking about Kendrick getting replaced, but WHO SAYS worley has a guaranteed place in the rotation next season????

    Not saying to put cloyd there , just saying i dont think worley is guaranteed a slot… Pettibone maybe or someone else..

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      1. i think it depends on how well he comes back from his elbow operation. he had another poor start tonight, giving up 9 hits in 4 1/3 innings against the crappy mets. i don’t know why they don’t shut him down for the rest of the season. he’s clearly ineffective.

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            1. I’ve been advocating them shutting Worley down for about a month now. I just don’t get it. But I suppose this isn’t the place to discuss that.

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        1. He’s pitching through an injury. I don’t think he’s been bad enough to lose his spot. If he’s pitching like this in April/May next year… then maybe he’ll lose a spot in the rotation.

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          1. That said. He should be shut down. He’s not helping the team at this point. I’d doubt he comes into spring training fighting for a job though.

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  10. Regardless of the non-major league fastball and the question of his career as a phuture phillie, what an AWESOME year for a kid(sorta) that wasn’t especially regarded coming into the season. Who knows what they ever do in the majors, but 5 years from now we’ll be sayin “do you remember Cloyd in 2012″…or prospect X is “having a month like Ruf in August 2012″… It has been pretty cool to follow.

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    1. I’d honestly rather they give Pettibone a look if anybody gets that opportunity. I think he’s got much more of a shot at helping the team long term.

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        1. *Dr. Evil voice* How about no.

          Worley is the only one who’s spot in the rotation should be questioned at this juncture. I would lean toward giving Cloyd the spot if they were going to call someone up. Pettibone is more likely to help long term but he’s also got more developing to do than Cloyd.

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  12. Phillies first need to decide if they think Cloyd will be grabbed in the Rule5 draft. (I could certainly see a team take a $50K flier on a possible 5th starter. He is major league ready and cheap even for a short period.) But other teams may see little long term benefit (especially over some younger pitcher with better stuff) to bother making the investment.

    If Phillies plan to put him on 40man then he should be called up in Sept even if he does not pitch much just to see how he looks in the Majors.
    Otherwise leave him in the minors, see what happens in Rule5, and if he is still with the Phillies in the Spring he can be a non-roster invitee. Maybe he looks great in the Spring and Minors again and gets a chance. Kendrick stuck around much (much) longer than I expected.

    Note on Kendrick, he looked great at the end of last year also. Early part of this season when the pen needed a top notch guy he could not do it, and he was not very good as a starter.

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  13. So Cloyd has excellent location but doesn’t throw hard. Tonight I saw Rosenberg getting lit up while mislocating his 96 mph fastball. I’ll take location over speed all day long.

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        1. Have been reading stuff on this site for months now and love reading the debates. Just a quick point id like to make on thos cloyd debate. (I am a big cloyd fan too) Why wouldnt you give a guy a chance to step up and prove his worth? Especially when he dominates in the level below. He cant be as bad as Rosenburg, and if he is what will we have lost? He might just step up and be thr man we need to turn the bullpen around. (Although i would rather see him start, i think bullpen is best for him for now). Personally i want him to suceed and think he has an amazing atitude to suceed. That is all. Keep up the debate. Thanks Blake (New Zealands number 1 Phillies phan!

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  14. Nonknuckleball throwing RHP with some measure of success:
    Stu Miller. (Said to throw changeup off of changeups, changeups ranging from 80mph down to 50mph. Had 16 year MLB career with many awards. Starter and reliever. In year with Philly 106.2 IP with 50 K. Typical of career .
    Also , it looked like in those days they traded pitchers who didn’t throw hard for each other.
    RHP’s traded in S. Miller trades: (though don’t know the exact repertoire of these pitchers, they share the sparse strikeouts per innings pitched):
    Ben Flowers
    Murry Dickson
    Herm Wehmeierl
    Jim Hearn (the Nibbler)
    Jack Fisher

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  15. Tyler Cloyd told Marshall Harris he models his pitching after Greg Maddux…the later career-stage Greg Maddux. I remember Ryne Sandberg making a similar comp back in July about his man.

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  16. Adam Rubin ‏@AdamRubinESPN

    Phillies scratch Cole Hamels with stomach ailment. Matt Harvey faces RHP Tyler Cloyd (15-1, 2.26 between Reading & Lehigh Valley) instead.

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