Box Score Recap 8-22-2012

Box Score Recap

Good outing from Trevor May – 7IP, 4H, 3BB, 9K.  Took the loss, after allowing 2r/1ER. 

2 HR in a DH for CLR shortstop Edgar Duran yesterday. Progressing a level each year, since 2009, his OPS was slowly improving each year as well – but now he’s up over 100pts over last year.  And yes, it’s inflated after 2 bombs yesterday, and he could easily burn some of that off if he cools down the last 10 days or so, but overall still a marked improvement from a 21 yr old in A+.  Someone to keep an eye on. 

If Duran can stick at SS, and if his marginally bad walk rate comes up a little and he develops a touch more power, (both of which seem like second half trends, albeit in a league where the best pitchers are in AA the second half), that’s a real interesting guy for me.  Cliche alert – “Only time will tell”.  Also, “We shall see” fits there, as well.  So “only” time, or your vision, (with time essentially implied).  And really, many of us won’t “see” any of it, except maybe on YouTube or if he makes the SportsCenter Top Ten.  So let’s go with “Only time will tell unless you go watch and then you shall see.” (c) BiDC, 2012

LV  REA  CLR1  CLR2  LKW  WIL  GCL susp after 2  DSL

181 thoughts on “Box Score Recap 8-22-2012”

    1. Can I just mention, right here at the top, that anyone who thinks it’s funny to co-opt someone else’s screenname should probably try to do it from a connection they don’t also use to post regularly. Please stop, or we’ll block the IP address. Thanks, and sorry to Marfis who had someone post as him yesterday and be a jerk to someone else while using bad grammar.

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      1. Has there been any discussion about moving to a “log-in required” model? Would help with some of the Anonymous junk posters, too.

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        2. I will mention it to Gregg. I get the impression this was tried at some point before I started coming to the site, but I don’t know why it was abandoned.

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      2. I think you should tell us who it was. He was trying to hide behind anonymity to flame another poster, if you let him stay anonymous he got exactly what he wanted.

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  2. What linbe by Quinn:

    On base all 5 times, 3 runs, 3 steals. Now that’s what you like to see from a lead off hitter.

    Encouraging start by May. I’d love to see him string a couple together to finish the year

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    1. Roman Quinn’s splits in the past 10 games: .333/.468/.361, 10/12 on SB attempts, 6 BBs vs 8 Ks, and 10 runs scored. Talk about your prototypical leadoff man.

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    2. I didn’t see the game, but in the 8th inning, with Quinn on first after his third walk of the game, the Jamestown pitcher balked in a run. You have to wonder if Quinn’s speed played a role.

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    3. While I know quinn’s specialty is obviously speed, any one know how his power profiles? I’d love it if he could be a 15 HR guy with all that speed.

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  3. Perci Garner with a solid start, Walding getting 3 hits and is it me, or is Gabriel Lino starting to hit better lately?

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    2. 1101 OPS in August. This is his age 19 season, in full season ball. Explain to me why the Orioles gave him up for Jim Thome again?

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      1. Their must’ve been a bigger market for Thome then thought. Plus, he is four years out IMHO. Proximity vs. potential.

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    3. I was really high on Perci coming into the year, a real disappointment but I hope this is the start of a string of nice starts.

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    4. I still can’t believe the Phillies were able to land Lino & Simon for Jim Thome. Amaro has quietly done a nice job restocking the farm system with recent trades and the players he drafted in 2011 & 2012

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  4. Lino def has turned it on. Catching is def deep in system now. Quinn had a line that we all want so bad at major level.

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        1. Pierre, Mayberry, and Nix will all be significantly better than him, yes. Wiggy might not be a bad comp. Did you enjoy watching him in left field the other day?

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          1. Just to be clear, the comp there is ONLY on his speed to the ball. I think he’s profiles as a average or better LF in every other way.

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            2. I’m saying comparing Ruf defensively to to Wigginton is accurate from a “range” perspective, but I suspect it isn’t accurate when evaluating other skills associated with playing left field. Wigs is below average in pretty much all skills associated with the outfield.

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    2. I realize Goldschmidt’s younger, but is there any comparison with him and Ruf? I don’t know what round he was drafted and its more than possible I’m looking for any possible comparison

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  6. Brad, thanks for doing a great job on the daily box scores. I appreciate you keeping it light and fun!

    I’d like to suggest that all of us commenters try and raise the level of civility on here a tad. It seems that these daily post discussions have gotten more and more combative and personal.

    I know I’m no saint as just the other day I posted a snide comment about another poster, so I promise to do better myself.

    One suggestion is that people focus more on amplifying and augmenting good posts and less on breaking down posts with which you disagree.

    In other news, Casey McCarthy of the Jamestown Jammers is going to have nightmares about Quinn.

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    1. To me I picture him as a faster Jose Reyes with less power. Could he be ready by the time JRoll’s contract is up?

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      2. That’s only two years. I’d be extremely surprised, especially how the organization is generally not that aggressive with their promotions.

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      3. That would be amazingly awesome and nearly unprecedented. Reyes took 3.5 minor league seasons to make the majors, Jeter took 4 and Rollins took 5.

        Let’s try asking about Quinn in some upcoming chats by the BA guys or KLaw. Maybe they can give us some insight beyond “really freaking fast”

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        1. Someone got a chat question in on Quinn earlier this year, can’t remember with who and on which chat, but the general sentiment was “game changing” fast, but not Billy Hamilton fast.

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            1. The biggest risk with him is without his speed he’s not a major league player. He’s a player I’d love to have until age 30.

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            2. Not sure how you can say that. He’s shown right handed pop, though in an extreme SSS. He’s just learning to bat LH, so who knows how he develops his hit tool there. Doing all this on offense while just learning to play SS. He has a TON on his plate right now and the fact that he is doing more than just surviving is pretty downright impressive. If Juan Pierre can play into his late 30s, don’t see why we need to limit Roman to his age 30 season so early in his career.

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            3. The 30 comment was about Billy Hamilton. He’s got pretty much no power, but is faster than anybody in baseball. By quite a bit. But when his speed diminishes (in his 30’s, most likely), he won’t have major league tools anymore.

              We’ll see what Quinn brings to the table other than speed in the next couple years.

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            4. Were you talking about Hamilton or Quinn? B/c if you were referencing Quinn, I couldn’t disagree more. He’s shown some nice power (relative to his size) and his hitting tool has improved throughout the season. The FO is keen on his defensive abilities @ SS, or where they think those abilities project a few years down the road.

              Now if you were referring to Hamilton, then I don’t think there’s much debate to that opinion.

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            5. Yeah I was referring to Hamilton, and you’re right, I’m really excited about quinn. If he can be a 15 HR guy in the majors he could be a really special player for a long time.

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  7. Just something from the 8/21 boxscore thread. In case, no one gets back to it. 3 of the comments issued under this somewhat long-standing screen-name were not made by me, but the screen-name was appropriated by another. If someone can do that, that might cause a sometime administrative snafu. If it is OK to do that, just say so, then I can appropriate someone else’s.

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    1. I guess you can just type in anything you like. We have enough anonymous’ on here we don’t need people hijacking screen names and acting idiotic. It’s not like the name ‘marfis’ is in the mainstream and someone mistyped a letter. At one point, we had to register with WordPress for the screen name but I guess that went by the boards..

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    3. How about you just go away? Nobody here really likes your attitude anyway. You come off as snobby, petty, and small.

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      1. Matt, relax. Think about how you come off when you write something like that.

        You do not have to read every post on this site. I certainly don’t. This is supposed to be fun, so try not to let a few posters you do not care for ruin it for you.

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        1. Fair enough, that’s a good point. I mean the guy is annoying as hell, but you’re right, I should just move on and not let it bother me.

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  9. Duran is definitely an above-average shortstop – he’s made some eye-opening plays this year and gets all the routine ones done as well. What I thought was most impressive about his day yesterday was that his HR in Game 1 was batting left-handed, and his HR in Game 2 was right-handed. To me it looks like he might have a touch more pop from the left side, but he can definitely hit from both.

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    1. Sounds like one of our sleepers. Thanks for bringing up. Usually the sleepers are not potential stars or above avg players, but they can be role players or sometimes avg starters.

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    1. I’m surprised he has hit so well this year, with all the starting and stopping he has done. He hits, gets injured, comes back hitting, gets injured, comes back hitting, gets suspended, comes back hitting. No slumps, it seems, after his time off.

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    2. Like I mentioned yesterday, he just has that look of somebody who knows how to hit. I think once they get him on a big league nutrition and weight regiment, he’ll eliminate some of the injuries and show a little more power. I’m excited by his potential

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      1. have you seen gillies i dont think he needs better nutrition or weight training dude is jacked out of his mind

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  11. I noticed Mitch Walding’s OPS has fallen to .636 on the season. A sobering reminder about the dangers of small sample sizes.

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    1. or really bad coaching at Williamsport level. Have you watched him hit ? His talent is apparent. This wasn’t just Walding who dropped off face of earth…it happen to several other players on that team. I believe Dick Tracy is hitting instructor down there.

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      1. Just pointing out that prior praise of Walding was based on gaudy stats. If you base your opinion on scouting reports, then your opinion probably remained steady all season. Which is perfectly fine of course.

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  12. Who has the most impressive ‘split’ so far?

    Franco (post-allstar): A ball, age 19, 223 abs, 332/ 388/ 529

    Quinn (LH vs RHP): NYPenn, age 19, 159 abs, 258/ 357/ 384

    Asche (Reading jump): AA, age 22, 216 abs, 287/ 343/ 495

    I think Roman Quinn learning to hit LH for the first time, in his first professional season, against college pitchers, has the most impressive line of the season.

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    1. Asche’s line looks even better if you isolate his numbers since the All Star Break. Really, really impressive. However, I’m going with Quinn. He’s excelling at something he’s never done before this year.

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    2. Very interesting question. I might have to agree with you. a .740 OPS while “learning” to hit left handed is just amazing. He must be a wildly talented athlete. His batting RH OPS is .865, though with only 55 ABs.

      Also love his last 10 … .333/.468/.361/.829

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    3. I go with Asche because it’s against AA pitching. But Quinn’s numbers batting lefthanded are pretty crazy.

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        1. No idea. But he’s getting on base either way. For a guy who’s never done it before, that kind of success at that level is just impressive.

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          1. Because you will not have that advantage at the upper levels. Galvis last year had 8, which is considered above-average.

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  13. I watched 4 innings of the Reading game yesterday on milb.tv, and here are a few of my take-aways:

    1. Trevor May elevates his fastball more often than not. It’s incredibly frustrating to watch and you can tell he’s fighting himself a bit. Despite the line, he was living up in the zone a lot from the 4th inning on. Velocity is there, the breaking ball is killer, but when he elevates that fastball it flattens out and is just a complete meatball. He won’t realize his potential until he figures that out.
    2. Cody Asche had a bad game (despite the RBI). The tools are obvious, and I’m very high on him, but it was not a pretty day. Nearly botched an easy groundout in the 7th with an errant throw (I believe it was Jake Fox that made a nice stretch to save the out) and swung at a fastball way low and away to GIDP after Gillies got his 3rd hit of the day to leadoff the inning (killed a scoring threat in a close game). Not concerned AT ALL, but he is human.
    3. Jiwan James and Darin Ruf are huge. Ruf is just a mountain of a man and actually has decent bat speed (but that may be the result of him sitting on and jumping on fastballs). Jiwan James is like a taller Anderson Silva (for MMA fans out there). Not a fan of the swing, but damn….he big.
    4. Tyson Gillies looked great. Like a man among boys. It’s fun to watch him play. He covers a ton of ground in CF with ease and has a good arm (although I did not see it tested, so this is largely going off word of mouth). He can flat out hit. Sort of reminds me of a more athletic Johnny Damon (don’t kill me for that, just my thought on how he looks playing the game, not necessarily a grade of his hit tool…but he can hit). He’s going to be a big leaguer sooner than later. I see now why the organization was so infatuated with him. Not a perennial all-star type talent, but we could do much worse in CF.
    5. Knigge has much better stuff than I assumed. He dominated the batters he faced. I have no gun readings, but his fastball was far more effective than May’s. He had batters off-balance and really toyed with them for the most part. In both ABs where he recorded a strikeout, the batter looked absolutely lost. Got one guy swinging on a fastball up and in (which was the spot he was trying to hit, not a consequence of poor execution), where the batter was left spinning on his heels. I can certainly see him in our bullpen at some point.

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    2. Excellent post. Thank you for the feed back.

      Only one question. I don’t understand this whole “sitting on the fastball” comment regarding Ruf, that’s the 2nd time I’ve seen a poster mention that on here. Players always sit on pitches, that’s why they call it a “chess match” at the plate. If you’re in a 3-0 count, you’d be an idiot not to sit fastball, same for 3-1 for 95% of pitchers in AA. Even at the MLB level, quality pitchers throw 60-80% fastballs. The room for error in the bigs is so small players routinely sit on 1 pitch type, and then adjust for those pitches that aren’t that type, that’s par for the course.

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      1. I agree, but i think what people are saying is that in the minors, when a pitcher is in a hitter’s count, they will still go to their fastball because their secondary pitches are not great. In the majors, you’ll get a strasburg curveball or a hamels changeup.

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      2. There is a distinction between “sitting on the fastball” and “cheating on the fastball”. I’m thinking the scout who said he cheats believes that Ruf doesn’t have the bat speed to turnaround a good fastball unless he commits before he necessarily knows what’s coming, making it impossible to adjust. Obviously, good pitchers will exploit that.

        I’d also say that the vast majority of the time, almost all hitters are “sitting on the fastball”. That is just the approach of look for the fastball and adjust to the breaking ball, which early in the count, is what every hitting coach will tell you to do.

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        1. I wonder on that one, I’ve seen some scouting reports mention his above average bat speed…and I question the accuracy of bat speed estimates. There are two ways to really “know” what that scout opined. One would be to use a very high frame rate video camera (think about those 300,000 dollar video cameras used in shark week and for planet earth) and time first movement forward of the bat (Tm) relative to Tc (time of contact), and then compare that to other players on home run balls (only). If that wasn’t a phillies scout, I’d be surprised if that was the case. The other way would be to measure the speed of the bat as it crosses the plate, (equally challenging, and actually less accurate because it doesn’t take into consideration time to maximum speed) if you’re not a member of the phillies staff that wouldn’t be an option either. Eye balling it would be horribly inaccurate and lead to a poor conclusion.

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          1. You could also approximate his bat speed by taking his bat weight, and distance traveled (not strait line, but rather following the arch of the ball off the bat), speed of the pitch at contact, direction and speed of wind, and rotation rate of ball prior to contact and after contact, and gravity, but that’s obviously a more difficult calculation.

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            1. The simplist way by far is to say “how far does he hit the ball” 🙂 If he hits it farther then most players almost 100% chance he’s got above average bat speed.

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            3. Not disagreeing. I have no idea about his bat speed. I am just saying what I understand to be the distinction between “cheating” and “sitting”.

              I tend to think a guy hitting like Ruf in AA has a chance.

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      3. From what I understand from listening to some former big leaguers discuss it in interviews. They say that many hitters, even really good ones, will sit on the fastball or sit on something off-speed. They might crush that pitch, but might be slow to react to any other kind. But there are some exceptionally gifted hitters who have the vision, quick bat, and quick decision making ability to recognize and react to the pitch as it is thrown.

        Here’s a piece of an interview with Reggie Jackson were he touches on it:

        “DAVIES(the interviewer): I have to ask you one thing that I’ve always wanted to ask a great hitter. And that is, when a pitcher releases the ball, it’s on top of you so quickly and you have a much better chance if you can tell whether it’s a fastball or a slider or a curve. Can you actually see the rotation of the ball and tell what kind of pitch it is?

        Mr. JACKSON: Dave, if you can’t see the rotation and tell if it’s a sink – a fastball, then you have to be able to tell whether that fastball is a two seamer or a four seamer. You have to be able to recognize if it’s a slider or a curveball. You have to be able to recognize if it’s a changeup or a split-finger. And if you can’t, you’re not going to be a Major League player. You’re not going to be a good player. Any other player that’s playing everyday, that’s hitting above .275 or .260, he can see what’s coming when it leaves the pitcher’s hand.”

        The rest of the interview is really cool too.

        http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=113683313

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      4. The “sitting on the fastball” comment was just me parroting what I’ve read elsewhere. I’ve nothing to substantially back that up, but I’ve heard it enough that I figured it was worth including while I’m complimenting his bat speed.

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  14. It’s hard not to get excited about Gillies. He has to see the gaping hole in CF at the ML level. You’d really like to think the light has finally come on. And Roman Quinn? Wow! He continues to be the prospect I’m rooting for the most to succeed.

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  15. I hate getting excited about some of these prospects because I have a feeling RA is going to deal a few to fill some holes. He looks at the Nats now and will feel he needs to catch up fast, but if prospects are dealt for players that only last as long as oswalt or pence we will be in a bigger hole because the Nats are young and have prospects on their way.

    Do you think ed wade is behind some of the farm build up? Could be teaching RA about the value of keeping prospects (core of team still wade’s tenure)

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  16. I’ve been comparing Hewitt and Collier since they got drafted. At this point it seems that Collier is our best hope of the two, since Hewitt continues to struggle getting on base and continues to strike out at a high rate, without the power numbers to make up for it.

    Collier has been improving, however slowly, every year it seems and I’m hoping that they give him a chance in Reading next year. Next year he will only be 22 which is a pretty good age for AA and who knows, maybe he can turn into a solid outfielder if he can continue to improve his OBP and lower his SO%.

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    1. Chances are, assuming neither gets taken in the Rule 5 draft (unlikely, especially in Hewitt’s case) both are in the Reading OF next year- deserved or not. Also, if you look closely at Hewitt’s numbers, even he is slowly improving.

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      1. And if Hewitt doesn’t go onto the Reading roster, I think he can be taken in the minor league rule 5, (like Justin Friend or who was it, Travis Mattair?) and go to another org willing to put him on their AA team. Chances are, they promote him toAA next year and AAA the year after that if he “holds his own”, (say, .715 OPS with HRs in the teens and not a 35%K rate). Or he could be out of pro ball by this time next year. Hope not.

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        1. Their are two parts in the Rule 5 draft. Ruf, Hewitt, James and Overbeck will probably be protected on the Lehigh roster, so they won’t get selected in the minor league portion of the draft. Mattair wasn’t protected in either the Major or Minor league portions of the draft.

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        2. There is an explanation of this on Cot’s baseball contracts. It is in the range of 37 players can be protected on the AAA roster and 36 can be protected on the AA roster. A player protected on the AAA roster can only be selected in the MLB portion of the draft.
          Minor league veterans whose contracts have expired and inexperienced players not yet eligible for the Rule 5 draft do not need to be on a roster. That leaves very few players they might possibly want to protect. So, if they want to place a player on the AAA roster they can. It is more of a “for sale” sign for players Not on MLB roster can be had for like 25,000 I believe . AA players selected by AAA teams are up for 12,500 and A players for the AA draft are up for like 5,000. I believe those are the numbers, something like that . The point is players are for sale in this draft process.

          As for Hewitt, Collier,et.al. I see only 3 players up for the Reading roster from Clearwater
          Hewitt, Collier, and Peter Lavin. The only alternative to them I see is signing a minor league veteran for more than the paltry sums above that will not be considered a prospect, even on here. Reading might hold over some players to be a 4th OF like Brandon Tripp (if still under contract), maybe D’Arby Myers. Not protecting a player on a minor league roster , that is giving them away. Very few players are left off AAA roster on year to year basis.

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  17. The Gillies detractors have been saying since we got him his stats were inflated because of the high desert league. Since leaving that league over 59% of his PA’s make up his current line which darn near equals what he did prior to coming over.

    Leagues may have an effect on HR’s and OPS but I maintain OBP and AVG will transcend leagues. Make no mistake Gillies is not going to be a power hitting MLB player but he will hit gaps, he will get on base and play above avg defense.

    Now nothing is ever certain until a guy gets his call and seizes his opportunity. Make-up issues aside for Gillies I see no reason not give him his cup of coffee come Sept.

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      1. So you’re saying since Gillies is putting up comparable numbers, that his skills to the other players his age/level have improved as he’s moved up. Correct?

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        1. I wouldn’t read that far into my statement. I’m just making a general posit about evaluating different leagues for hitters. Whether it means he’s improved or not is really hard to say because there were wildly disagreeing opinions of his ability three years ago. Who is to say how good he was then? I don’t really know.

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      2. Interesting data. Lowest BA seems to be GCL. Eastern League only 5 points higher than FSL.. Obviously which ballpark one plays home games in makes a big difference

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    2. I have always been one of Gillies biggest boosters, but his overall slash line as a Phillie is .277/.344/.405 (the OBA may be a tad lower, actually), significantly lower than his overall minor league slash line, and far lower than his 2009 slash line. His performance this year is also a little better than his overall line as a Phillie, a good sign, but still nowhere near his ridiculous line in 2009.

      All of that said, what do we have with Gillies? A player who has decent (but not exceptional) contact skills and line drive skills and good speed, and, at this point, not much else as a hitter. Looking at his batted ball data, he can be expected to have a better than average BABIP, but his current rate is unsustainable and he does not look like a .300 major league hitter at the moment. For him to be more than just a marginal major league player (it’s easy to see him in a backup role with his current skills set), you would like to see one of the following, preferably more than one: (a) some mid range power, (b) better plate discipline, and/or (c) better use of his speed. And improved contact rate wouldn’t hurt, either.

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      1. The average MLB CF this year is hitting .268/.332/.418. Last year it was .261/.326/.410. I think those are reachable, and as long as he can play average or better defense he could be a productive major leaguer. Of course he could also have his leg troubles reoccur and derail his career entirely.

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        1. Mitchell is much better than Gillies all around. Much better fielder, and a very smart base runner.

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        2. First fo all, reachable when? Not 2013.

          Now, if we’re talking 2014, then I’d say that’s possible but a little optimistic. That is, even if he remains healthy and his development otherwise continues normally, his power would need to take a significant jump. Which certainly is possible but not guaranteed.

          Look, I’m rooting for the guy. The irony here is that I’ve always been more optimistic about him than most people around here. Then all of the sudden he has a hot August and a significant portion of the readership here thinks he is the short term answer in CF. premature and excessive.

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          1. Reachable eventually, if he stays healthy. IMO health is still by far the biggest IF for Gillies long term. I agree, he’s not ready in 2013. Very few players can jump to the majors with not much more than half a season of experience above A ball.

            I don’t know what to make of his stats from 2010 and 2011 considering he was hurt so much of the time.

            He’s also been hit by 54 pitches in 1400 milb PAs pushing up his OBP a little. Maybe he’s an Utley fan.

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  18. I was at yesterday’s Reading Phillies @ Harrisburg Senators game. Here are some of my observations from the game. I missed the top of the first as I was waiting in a long line for tickets.

    Here are my observations.

    Trevor May looked really dominant with his off-speed pitches as he was throwing them for both called strikes and a number of swinging strikes. He made the Senator batters look bad on a number of swings. There were very few hard hit balls on him. I have seen him pitch 3 times this year and he has pitched lights out in each of those games.

    Daren Ruf hit two balls (line drives) that if he got any lift on them would have been long home runs. Both were hit to RF. One was a linedrive out, the other was a double off the RF wall.

    Tyson Gillies hit screamers every time he batted. The only out he made was probably the hardest hit ball by him — a line drive right at the right fielder.

    Daren Ruf played the whole game in LF but not a lot of information to evaluate his defense. The only ball hit to LF was a line drive down the line which he fielded ok.

    Cody Asche played the whole game at 3B but again only ball hit in his direction was a routine ground ball that he did ok on.

    Tyler Knigge who came in to pitch the 8th was consistently throwing 94-95 mph.

    In the 8th inning when Gillies hit a single with 2-outs, the Senators brought in a hard throwing lefty specialist to pitch to Asche. During the time the pitcher was warming up all Gillies did was trying to stretch out off of 1st base. I do not believe he was hurt but maybe his hamstring was bothering him in some way.

    I do not know if this was because Ruf has burned them in the last few games but, the Senators were playing their outfield really deep against Ruf for the whole game. I have never seen a minor league outfield play this deep against a hitter. Both the left fielder and the right fielder were playing only 3 or 4 steps in front of the warning track. The CF was also deep but not that deep. Normally LF and RF play 12 to 15 steps in front of the warning track. This was the only reason the RF was able to catch the bullet line drive one step in front of the wall off of Ruf’s bat in the 4th inning. Incidentally, Ruf appears to have incredible power the opposite way. If anyone is going to a Reading game, please make note of how deep the opposition plays their outfield against Ruf and please post it in the daily discussion. I can not believe that teams would play their outfielders this deep.

    The most annoying thing at the game was the dog barking music they played everytime Ruf came up. It really drove me nuts. I know it is part of gamesmanship on the Senators part to try to get into Ruf’s head but it so ANNOYING for a fan. Even while waiting for a ticket in the top of the 1st I could hear this barking song.

    I charted Trevor May’s pitches from the 3rd inning on. He threw a lot of off speed pitches. He was moving his pitches around. He was pitching both up and down and in and out and mixed his pitch well.

    The pitches that chart at 71, 72, 73, and 74 are probably his curveball. The pitches at 77, 78, 79, and 80 are probably his change-up. The pitches over 88 are probably his fastball. Pitches in the mid 80 are probably his slider.

    cs — called strike
    ss — swinging strike
    f — foul
    b — ball

    3rd Inning
    1st batter — 71 cs, 72 f, 89 b, 89 ss — Strikeout
    2nd batter — 89 f, 72 ss, 76 b, 91 b, 89 b, 76 ss — Strikeout
    3rd batter — 76 cs, 75 — Double down the LF line
    4th batter — 92 b, 77 ss, 78 b, 89 ss, 73 f, 79 — fly out RF

    4th Inning
    1st batter — 86 ss, 89 f, 90 ss — Strikeout
    2nd batter — 89 b, 73 b, 90 cs, 89 b, 89 — ground out SS to 1B
    3rd batter — 76 cs, 91 b, 81 ss, 92 ss — Strikeout

    5th Inning
    1st batter — 89 cs, 88 ss, 89 — fly out CF
    2nd batter — 89 cs, 90 cs, 89 f, 77 — Slow hit Single in hole to RF
    3rd batter — 89 — Double to RF
    4th batter — 74 — ground out 3B to 1B
    5th batter — 80 b, 79 ss, 90 b, 89 b, 76 b — walk
    6th batter — 90 — fly out RF

    6th Inning
    1st batter — 87 cs, 86 f, 93 f, 89 b, 88 b, 91 ss — Strikeout
    2nd batter — 89 cs, 88 b, 74 b, 79 ss, 80 f, 90 f, 81 ss — Strikeout
    3rd batter — 92 b, 78 ss, 79 ss, 93 b, 93 ss — Strikeout

    7th Inning
    1st batter — 90 f, 79 b, 93 — ground out P to 1B
    2nd batter — 88 cs, 92 ss, 89 ss — Strikeout
    3rd batter — 78 cs, 76 b, 89 b, 89 ss, 92 ss — Strikeout

    A few last comments on the stadium. It has been a long time probably 20 years since I saw a game in Harrisburg. The stadium at that time was like a glorified high school stadium. This new stadium is a typical high minor league stadium with all the bells and whistles, however I found it not to be very fan friendly. You sit much higher than the typical baseball park making you feel like you are a distance from the action. It almost has the feel of a cross between the Roman Coliseum and the Skydome in Toronto. The scouts must hate this stadium because in the seats behind home plate you can not get a handle of the movement or location of the pitches. I might add they have a special section of seats for scouts only that require you showing your scouting pass.

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    1. Great detailed report. Thanks for taking the time at the game. Good to see a lot of swinging strikes. Hope working up in the zone is by design. Since his fastball speed seems steady i tend to beleive (hope) he wasnt high in zone because of fatigue.

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      1. They had a dog barking when he came to the plate in Trenton, too. I’ll bet he gets that a lot.

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      2. I look at yesterday as the maturation of Trevor May from a “thrower” into a complete pitcher.

        In the past, when Trevor got 2 strikes on a hitter, he would then throw pitch after pitch of the same high fastball trying to get a strikeout. Since he got to AA he did not possess the ability to increase his velocity enough to get the hitter swing through the pitch. I saw him pitch in Lackwood in the past and he was able to roar back with 2 strikes and get the strikeout. In AA Trevor would get the hitter to just barely foul it off pitch after pitch. With 2 strikes the usual result was a foul tip straight back to the screen or a pop foul behind home plate. Recently a common occurrence was a home run. I have seen instances where he would go to the high fastball 4 or 5 times in a row in order to get the strikeout. The amount of foul ball would significantly elevate his pitch count that he would be able to only pitch 4 or 5 innings in a game. He had professed that he was trying to get hitters out quicker with less pitches but he continued to go to the high fastball to get the strikeout.

        In yesterday’s game I saw a complete pitcher, he pitched down, he pitched up, he pitched inside, he pitched outside, and he varied his pitches from fastball to curve to change-up to slider. He may have also thrown some 2-seam sinkers during the game as I read that he has started using that pitch. He threw nothing the same two pitches in a row. In addition, he significantly cut back on the number of fouls back to the screen.

        Someone earlier in this discussion stated that he saw the game on TV and it was the same old Trevor May throwing high fastballs. Nothing could be further from the truth. Trevor May had some swing and misses that made the batter look so foolish. The person who saw it on TV said that he thought that Knigge dominated the hitters better than May. Knigge was strictly a one pitch pitcher — all he threw was 94-95 mph fastballs. Knigge is simply a “thrower” who can get away with that for one inning. May for what I saw in yesterday’s game has changed into a complete pitcher who can use 5 or 6 different pitches and move them up or down and in and out.

        I just hope that Trevor May can build on this and continue to do what he did yesterday in his remaining starts this season.

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  19. Diekman doesn’t seem to be making any progress with his control since he went back to AAA. Lots of walks.

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  20. 2014 Lineup:
    Gilles
    Hernandez
    Brown
    Howard
    David Wright or Nelson Cruz (FA)
    Asche (left field of 3B)
    Joeseph
    Galvis

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  21. Why shouldn’t the Phillies take a Sept. look at Ruf and Asche. If they show promise, it could allow the Phillies to avoid spending big money on an OF or 3B and use it for a reliable bull-pen piece. I also think Pridie deserves a Sept. look, considering the uncertainty surrounding the ’13 OF.

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    1. I disagree on Asche just because you hold off on adding him to the 40 man roster and you send him to AFL to get more work with a spring training invite. I could see Pridie coming up if they don’t want Gillies as they can easily just cut him lose, but I really don’t think he is anymore than passing fodder when you need OF depth on your AAA team.

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      1. I should have included Gillies. He definitely deserves a look considering we really don’t have a legitimate CF.

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  22. Keith Law on Asche:

    Joe (PA):
    In a previous chat you brushed off the notion that Cody Asche was a legitimate prospect. What about him leads to that assessment?

    Klaw:
    Primarily his swing, which doesn’t project for any power because he really doesn’t load, and his poor defense. He’s hit a handful of homers in AA, but Reading’s a fairly homer-friendly park, and so is Harrisburg where he hit two the other day.

    Kris (Philly):
    Better 3B prospect…cody asche or maikel franko? Either one a legit MLB everyday guy?

    Klaw:
    I know Franco’s riskier, but I’d much rather bet on him becoming an average or better big league 3b than Asche.

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    1. Yes, he is in general not showing a lot of love for the Phils system in his chat right now. Ouch.

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      1. He is a big proponent of high-ceiling guys, rather than guys that are necessarily close to the show. That isn’t anti-Phillies as an organization, its anti low-ceiling.

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    3. Has he seen Asche this year? Because I’d swear the org worked in the offseason with him specifically on adding a load to his swing, something he attributes to his success this season.

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  23. The ML’s are are chock full of players – that if you listened to the scouts – didn’t have a chance. Asche has the numbers, let’s let and see how it plays out. Speaking of scouting reports, here’s a current one on another 3b, one Mikael Franco (second one down)

    http://baseballprospectnation.com/

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    2. Name 3.

      Actually there are very few major leaguers that weren’t loved, or at least liked, by the scouts. You can I guess argue that that is a self fufilling prophecy & that some players don’t get a fair shot, but it is extremely rare for a player to be universally panned by the scouts and have any kind of career at all in the major leagues.

      That doesn’t make law right about Asche. But if his opinion was universal, or at least common, I’d give it some weight. It’s certainly no more ridiculous than the opinions of some on this site who have anointed him a future superstar.

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    3. So, according to this report, Franco when fully developed is a 60 in everything except for baserunning which is now a 40 but will wind up a 30. Not bad.
      I think he might physically resemble today’s Hector Luna at that point.. I don’t know if Luna had that build when younger, but if he did, wonder what his scouting reports said.

      If people didn’t see the comments section someone asked writer of report to compare Asche and Franco. Said , something like that Franco is a significantly better prospect and , unlike Asche, Franco projects as a good fielder.

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      1. Just for fun:

        Player A (Age 19 in the Sally): .266/.367/.401 11 HR
        Player B (Age 19 in the Sally): .269/.329/.435 14 HR
        Player C (Age 21 in Low A): .293/.390/.464 9 HR (Granted, C’s splits are significantly better, but note the two-year age difference).

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        1. A.) David Wright in 2002
          B.) Maikel Franco this year
          C.) Mike Olt in 2010

          Not saying Franco will be either of these two players, but his performance this year — particularly factoring in his slow start — are pretty impressive.

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  24. Boston, I have to take what Keith Law says with a grain of salt as he comes across to me as the snubbed ex Assistant GM.

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    2. I would take everything written in general about our prospects with a grain of salt. The prospect “experts” don’t have all the information and they do not always have current scouting reports. The team sources may know the most but they don’t say the truth all the time so they don’t tip their hands. No one has all the answers but everyone is in the position they are because they have skill at what they do, they do not hold petty grudges, they have biases for certain types of players (Goldstein can be a tools whore, Law loves upside and hates reliever prospects, Sickels is more stat oriented, I don’t know Callis and Badlers because I haven’t heard them explicitly mention more than their player specific biases).

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    1. Biddle done after 7 scoreless. 2 cheap first inning singles were the only hits. Not quite as dominant as last time but still very impressive especially considering the big increase in # of changeups

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  26. Biddle K’s the side in the first but throws a lot of pitches and gives up 2 cheap singles

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    1. 1-2-3 2nd inning for Jesse. Throwing a lot more changeups tonight – organization must want him working on it more

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  27. Funny thing him saying that asche doesnt load. I Have alwasys been coaching hitting to kids, and loading is so important and keeping your hands back, even if you start you stride, that being said has anyone notice lately howard. there is no loading or very little stride, and yet he generates so much power, he amazes me how he doesnt load.Yet he can gets all that power.

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    1. Shoulda been another 1-2-3 for Biddle but HMart booted an easy grounder. No harm done. Thresh lead 3-0 after 2.5

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      1. Even if it is a line drive swing that caps out at 15HR a year that would be awesome especially if he hits ~.270 and plays adequate defense. He will hit HR and spray the ball about. Maybe he won’t be first division or an all-star but that locks down the position at the minimum.

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            1. Here is BA’s write up from the Hot Sheet:
              The former Nebraska Cornhusker has continued to hit with authority for Reading—he’s batting .278/.333/.454 with six homers through 194 at-bats—though scouts wonder if he’ll develop the power to profile as a hot-corner regular. A sweet-swinging lefty, Asche hits different pitch types and will force his way to the big leagues on the strength of his feel for hitting, position TBD.
              Power question there but not quite Law’s question, I see a ton of doubles in his future. Could he put up the numbers that Chris Johnson is this year, .273/.320/.437, if so sign me up.

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  30. Ethan Martin looks like he is falling apart, he is still a work in progress so it is probably still time to withhold too much judgment.

    In other news Biddle laughs at the FSL, unless he implodes completely he should be #1 on the Hot Sheet this week, currently 14IP 2H 0R 21K.

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    1. And those 2 starts were a pleasure to behold. Only 2 Thresher games I will attend all season!!!

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        1. Might as well let him finish out the season in Reading and go to the AFL and then AAA next year to start.

          Its been a great 12 months for Cody.

          Though he still needs to work on his fielding from reports.

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            2. I vaguely recall BP mentioning it. Sickels maybe?

              Its not said to rip him but that he’s simply raw right now…needs a bit of polish. He’s definitely capable of staying at 3B.

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    4. Same. In my personal opinion, I value upside over proximity. Franco, if he puts it together should be an above average (borderline star player). Asche is more than likely a good complimentary piece on a good team. (not saying that’s bad at all but he doesn’t have star potential).

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        1. Can’t we say the same thing about Franco? Both have shown an ability to overcome struggles after jumping to a new level and dominate.

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      2. I somewhat question the extent to which people around here can really know the extent to which this is true. I don’t entirely discount those reports, but I take them with a large grain of salt -mainly because I think most minor league players work very hard to succeed. Some players combine a truly unusual level of commitment with an extraordinary ability to benefit from hard work. Is Asche one of them? None of us can know that at this point in time.

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        1. For whatever it is worth, when I saw the R-Phils about a month ago, my son button-holed one of the staff workers at the park and ask who had impressed him. Several players were mentioned, but Asche stands out. Apparently, Asche gets to the park long before anyone else and hits, and practices like crazy all day long – to the point where he really stands out. Word has also filted through about how inquisitive he is with more senior players. I have my own feelings and comments on Asche which I will share later. I just don’t think he has been given enough credit for what can only be described as a meteoric rise this year. He has jumped 4 levels, after hitting .192 in rookie ball, and is now dominating at that 4th level. Speaking for myself, I find that to be astonishing. I also find his progression at the AA level to be noteworthy. To say he is doing well overall does not capture adequately his progression. In about two and a half months he has gone from not doing well at all, to doing solidly, to doing very well, to pretty much dominating. Is it luck? Perhaps to a certain degree, but there appears to be a definite progression in performance. It also makes his overall line inadequate to explain his current state of development or performance by reference only to his overall numbers. But maybe I’m wrong – who knows?

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          2. As I said, I’m not discounting that entirely. What I’m seeing, though – not so much from you – is a tendency to take a guy whose numbers, scouting reports, and skills set all point to a guy who, if things break right for him, is going to be an average major league third baseman – which is a valuable commodity in and of itself – and instead projecting him to be a star, based just on “work ethic” (and to some extent upon a misunderstanding of the predictive value of minor league batting averages). I just think that is wildly over projecting. After all, even projecting him to be an average major league regular assumes that he continues to develop his skill set – especially with regard to defense and power. His work ethic hopefully will allow him to do that. Projecting more … is premature to say the least. To be a star, he would have to make DRAMATIC strides in multiple areas – contact rate, BB rate, power and defense. It could happen, sure. It’s a long shot, even for a guy with good work habits.

            To put it another way, his impressive performance this year is likely in large part BECAUSE OF that work ethic. To project him to substantially over perform that level of play in the majors seems to me to be a bit of double counting.

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    5. I value proximity to upside. Franco is just as hot as Asche and since he is young he gets more projection. Asche has plenty of history from college which diminishes his upside. I have no idea if Franco will develop/keep his power/average. Same with Asche. But considering AA is generally the toughest test in the minors, I appreciate the growth Asche has had this year. He might top out as a part-time starter and maybe a hitting utility guy. Not a star but I have some confidence he will get to the majors. Franco is just too far away for me to make that jump nor consider he will project as an All-Star just yet.

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  36. Franco brings a lot of promise as a righty power hitter out of the 4 hole. His fielding is supposedly up to par at least. His progress in the 2nd half of this season indicates a star in the future because he is doing all this before his 20th birthday. It’s likely he’ll need three more minor league seasons before his MLB ETA. It should be FUN watching him all the way.

    In the meantime, we have a guy who plays 3rd base, is only 50 (?) miles away from CBP, is knocking the cover off the ball including 10 HRs since elevation to AA Reading along with a BA almost at the magic .300 level with a current run of mostly several hits per game, and a consequent high OBA. His next stop should be a few games at AAA LV and/or a trip to the AFL to get ready enough to take over 3rd base in ’13. When Franco comes up with his needed righty power then Cody can move to the LF position, but not second base where his lateral movement may not have satisfied the FO so as to move him to the hot corner where rapid reaction is needed more than great lateral movement.

    I don’t care what KLaw says; the facts, stats, and figures are right in front of us. Cody has apparent better than average speed. His fielding, if in need of some improvement, can be readily conquered by him since he is known to be a major hard worker. IMO, after this off-season which may include a trip to the AFL, I’ll bet that he is much more poolished in the field come spring training. IMO, 3rd base is his to lose in ’13.

    Tonight Cody went 3 for 3 which included a HR, double, and single (short of the cycle by a double; he says he’s sorry)) plus a walk. Klaw can jump in the nearest body of still water!

    And Gillies. There should be no reason NOT to bring him up in Sept. No center fielder other than him is on our horizon; he is the obvious choice so long as he remains healthy.

    I’d love to see both Gillies and Asche be on the team’s roster and starting lineup…along with a good righty-hitting outfielder to be obtained, or PTBA!

    Pettibone for #5. Kids needed.

    Sticking Rollins at #7 in the lineup is called-for. Sorry he has such a long-term deal.

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      1. YOU can lead off and be better than J-Roll.

        Gillies IS a lead-off hitter. Plays a superb center field, steals bases, gets hits and has a good OBA. What’s not to like?

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          1. I tend to agree with that assessment, Larry.

            Art, no offense, but you need to take a couple steps back from Asche. Objectively speaking, he gives us a glimmer of HOPE that he can be an AVERAGE third baseman. AA stats do not directly translate to MLB stats. Even if we assume this offensive juggernaut he has become is the norm for him, his line looks more like .250/.310/.420 adjusted to the major leagues. And that’s IF he continues his onslaught. Now, don’t get me wrong, I’ll take that in a heartbeat from him. But thinking that everyone who has a job of watching prospects is wrong about him is foolish. You should temper your expectations because you’re setting yourself up for disappointment. If he becomes a superstar, that’s fantastic. But he has a better shot of not being able to stick in the majors than he does of becoming even above-average. He’s had one year of success with the bat, with varying reports on his defense and power. Let’s just wait and see how he handles himself next year.

            That said, I can appreciate your enthusiasm for our players, but let’s not go overboard. Liking, say, Hamels (my favorite pitcher) is different than proclaiming him a left-handed Pedro Martinez. Appreciate players for what they are, not what you wish they would become.

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        2. What bugs me most about this isn’t so much the absurd overvaluing of our prospects, but the slighting of established players such as Rollins. Rollins has never been a protypical lead off hitter – but then, neither is Gillies. Let’s breakdown the skill sets:

          Ob base skills – a wash. Rollins rates the slight edge in ability to draw a BB – may be surprising to some; his career BB% in the majors is close to Gillies’ in the minors (7.5 vs. 9.1), but Gillies’ mark as a Phillie farm hand is only 6.0%. Rollins also, before this year, had increased his BB rate, and even this year is over his career rate. Call it a wash at best for Gillies. Rollins rates a BIG edge in contact skills, much better K percentage in the majors versus Gillies minor league percentage (11.5 vs 19.6). Unfortunately only about 2 years of batted ball data is available for Gillies, but Gillies 2011-2012 LD rate is about the same as Rollins’ career rate (20.9 Rollins, 20.4 Gillies). Gillies might has an edge on IF hits, though we don’t have data to do a comparison.

          Speed – aside from the ability to get on base via an IF hit, see above, an edge to Rollins. SB aren’t everything, but Rollins steals more bases at a MUCH higher percentage (30 plus yearly @ 83%, versus .. only 11 total as a Phillie, with an overall (including pre-Phillies) rate of 70%.

          Now, it’s true that Rollins’ skills have deteriorated to some extent – though less so than most people think – but OTOH we’re comparing major league performance to minor league performance. And I’m not even discounting Gillies’ crazy 2009 in a high run environment.

          Aside from lead off skills, which generously to Gillies I’ll call a wash, Rollins blows Gillies away – better power, more demanding position, gold glove versus … well, let’s just say that this is the first time I’ve heard Gillies defense described as superb (how many games of Gillies have you watched, Art?).

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          1. +infinity.

            In Jimmy’s AA season (Age 20), he had more walks (51) than Ks (47) in 532 AB. And this is at the height of the hack-a-thon steroid era. This season, at age 23, Gillies’ BB/K ratio is 16/44 in 230 AB. Gillies has nearly matched Jimmy’s AA strikeout number in 300 fewer ABs — and he’s three years older at the same level. So how is it that he projects to be a more competent leadoff hitter?

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    2. ArtD….make room on your bandwagon for me, but not near the back, don’t want to fall off and get hurt.

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  37. Tomorrow’s BA hot sheet should be fun. Biddle, Franco, Asche, Gillies, and Lino all have varying cases for being featured. I’d say only the first two are locks, though. Really an outstanding week for the system.

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