Box Score Recap 8-20-2012

Box Score Recap

Maikel Franco: 4-5, 2 2b, HR, 3RBI.  Take a look at pre/post ASB just for fun.  Night and day.

LV ppd  REA  CLR  Off  LKW  WIL  GCL  DSL

141 thoughts on “Box Score Recap 8-20-2012”

  1. Franco has done nothing but improve on his prospect status. And I’m hoping we’re seeing a true breakout the past two months. Our system has has it’s share of disappointments this season, but there appears to be significantly more players who have shown improvement that those who have taken a step or two back.

    Roman Quinn having a solid first season of pro-ball

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    1. For some prospects its not how you start but how you finish…Franco falls into that category. He will be 20 in CLW next year so hopefully he’ll get off to a good start and make his presence felt. For me he still hasn’t flashed the OPS at any level to warrant top 10 ranking status next season.

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      2. DMAR…..concerning Franco’s OPS…take away April of 2011 and July of 2010…then I can assume he is respectable and worthy of a top ten ranking?.

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      3. Wow. I mean the power potential has been clearly displayed this year. To me Franco was the #1 position prospect coming into this season and if it wasn’t for Joseph there still wouldn’t be any competition. What 10 guys would you put ahead of him?

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            1. I’ve been seeing a lot of the Ache at 2B talk lately. Yes, they tried him there last year, but his move to 3B indicated to me that the org wasn’t optimistic about his ability to play there. Has there been talk I’ve missed that Asche could still project at 2B? Because if he could, I’d imagine he’d already be playing there.

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            2. It’s probably more of just a hopeful thing. Asche and Franco both look like they can be major league contributors and only one can play 3rd. It would definitely be nice if he could play 2nd.

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            3. it’s possible asche is not suited for 2nd base. it’s just something to dream on. remember that utley was trialed extensively at third base hopefully as a replacement for rolen, but it just wasn’t his position. i’ll leave it up to the baseball professionals to get it right.

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            4. it could also be that he’s just more comfortable at 3B than at 2B. Last year he had to adapt to playing pro ball as well as a new position. All in all, I’d say that it’s just way too early to close the book on 2B for Asche

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            6. Cesar Hernandez would seem like a more realistic internal option at 2b then Asche. Galvis and Hernandez would both be under 25 in 2014 and provide better defense up the middle for our pitching staff.

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        2. Even when Franco wasn’t getting hits in the 1st half of the season his boosters kept telling his critics to look at his peripherals (K%, ISO). There were indicators all year, that Framco was going to be all right.
          If Franco hasn’t done enough to be considered top 10 for someone, it’s only because they are being stubborn and trying to hold on their original, incorrect notions.

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      4. Jon Mayo’s, MLB.com, scouting report on Franco from the spring:
        It may take awhile for him to get there, but Franco as a finished product could be an elite-level player at the hot corner. He profiles very well at the position, with the ability to hit for plenty of power down the road, especially as he develops better plate discipline. He’s a solid defender as well, with a strong arm and good range. Be patient, Phillies fans, because the payoff will be worth it.

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        2. Don’t get me wrong I liked Franco coming into the season and yes he has flashed real power. Just saying when I step back and look at his totals I see cause for pause on his hype. I’m probably wrong.

          As for who I might put ahead of him, Quinn and Tocci probably break my type 10 as does Morgan and Joseph.

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            1. I said the same thing last year then I saw him play. He might be the closest thing we get to a Mike Trout or Bryce Harper. Yeah it scares me that he is only 16 knowing a lot can happen between now and 20/21 years of age.

              Franco while good does not come close to this kids tools.

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            2. You’re right about Tocci. Not sure where he falls for me but definitely Top 10, or right around 10. An early Happy Birthday to Carlos who turns 17 this Thursday. Yes. 17.

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            3. Oh? He shares a birthday with me, then. I was not aware. Well now he definitely has to make it up to Philly so we can celebrate together.

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          2. @DMAR What are you talking about? Looking at his totals and seeing a cause for concern? A 7.4% walk rate and a 15.2% K rate is excellent. A .166 ISO is solid for a 19 year old. Even if you like looking at stats the old way (14HR 77RBI) you should still get excited.

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    1. What part of Cozens performance hasn’t been living up to your standards? He’s been solid as far as I can tell. Clear power potential, he can take a walk. Maybe he strikes out too much but it is his first taste of professional ball. .250/.343/.419 in about 150 ABs is plenty good for me at this point. How about we give the kid a chance?

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      1. Just ignore him. Anyone basing drafting decisions on GCL stats is not someone to have a reasonable discussion with

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      2. The clueless are out early. Please check this Cozens K/BB rate, and his OPS in relation to every other 2012 draftee.

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    2. This is not the first time a troll complained about Cozens, to which he replies with a couple of hits and a HR, this one being his 5th of the year.

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        1. I know you are joking, but just as a FYI — his 5 HRs are third in the GCL behind a 20-year old that is repeating the level, and Herrera, who is just flat out a better prospect than him.

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          1. I know … he’s also top 10 in the league in walks, an encouraging sign. Considering he came right in from high school without the benefit of instructs, he is certainly a player to be excited about.

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      2. Cozens is also a good example of how small sample sizes can overly-sway someone’s opinion of a prospect. He started off red-hot, and people were saying he was top 10 in our system. Then he slumped a bunch as Pullin and Green heated up, and then he went to being the 3rd best hitting prospect of the draft behind them both. Now, he’s had a few good games again, and his OPS is almost identical to Green, and not far from Pullin.

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        1. Inconsistancies are a big part of rookie ball IMO, i’m not the least worried about the wild swings in performance. He’s clearly in the 9 to 15 range for me ranking wise. I’m overall quite happy with his first year.

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  3. My prospect watch,position players for the rest of the year,Ruf 35+ homeruns,Ashe .300 batting average,Franco 20 homeruns and 95 Rbi.Boy! its looking much,much better than it did one year ago.Plus we have some pitchers,that we’re excited about.And how about Eric Kratz? How would his current numbers translate over a full year?

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    1. Lakewood only has 13 games left, so Franco would have to play at an insane rate reach that. But your other goals are within reach.

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    2. He would threaten the Barry Bonds record of 73 HRs, so I have to assume that his current power numbers are unsustainable. But he appears to have more raw power than anyone on the Phillies except Howard. Makes you wonder what Ruf could do in Philly if given a chance,.

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  4. For all of those who are getting excited about Ruf, the Phillies in the ’70’s had a great prospect in the minor leagues Joe Lis who in 3 years hit 30+ homers each year. He played 8 seasons in the majors, various teams, and hit a total of 32 homers for his career…….buyer beware

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    1. I’m no booster of Ruf, but that was forty years ago. Baseball’s organizational landscape has changed a lot since then.

      Also, if you put the o/u for Ruf career MLB home runs at 32, how many folks here are really taking the over? He should be thrilled if he gets enough at bats for a full season of power production.

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      1. I’m with you Rich, If Ruf was able to hang on as a fringe Major leaguer/bench guy for 8 seasons that would actually be a pretty amazing outcome for a guy who was drafted as minor league filler.

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    2. Ruf’s more of a dollar store pickup than a big ticket purchase for the Phils … if he provides any type of big league production, it’ll be a win for the org. I don’t know if “buyer beware” fits.

      I think most people on this site are aware he’s not likely to have the same success at the ML level. If anything, I think some would just like to see the Phils consider him for a shot … which they appear to be doing by playing him in LF.

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    3. Tom, Ruf not making the Phillies could be the future result but he does play a decent LF and deserves a chance to make the big team. To the Phillies credit they appear willing to give him a fair chance to make the big team next year. If he does than we found an internal solution without throwing millions at a FA outfielder and improving our bullpen.

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      1. Believe me, I would be more than happy if Ruf is able to secure the LF position and even be a consistent hitter at the MLB level. That is why I am really pulling for Frandsen as piece for 3rd base. Both Ruf and Frandsen would be very economical for the Phillies and allow them to spend big on a power hitting centerfielder.

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          1. Hamilton carries too much baggage and is too risky. Curtis Granderson is under contract thru 2012. The Yankees have a club option for 2013 they could buy him out for 2MM

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    4. I think it needs to be stated that there is a lot of ground between stating Ruff deserves a promotion and Ruff will be a servicable MLB talent at 1B or LF. I also believe that if Ruff does get called up before the end of the Reading season the person who will be the most upset will be Cody Aschee. He has to be seeing a lot more FB with Ruff behind him. it is probably not a coincidence Aschee’s BA has risen along with Ruff’s power explosion.

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      1. The issue comes down to the 40 man. I haven’t looked at it closely enough to see whether there is legitimately a spot for him there, but my inclination would be to favor higher upside guys over him.

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        1. They have 40 guys on the roster already, but they can release Contreras if they want to get one more guy.

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      2. To state it more plainly, if the Phillies think they can find a spot on the 40 man for him, by all means bring him up for a look. Or even if they think that he might have some trade value. And to be clear, they likely could make room on the 40 man now; things don’t get tight until they need to protect the group of prospects that will need protecting this fall.

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        1. The Phillies will have about 10 spots available on the 40 man, if they remove Contreras, Savery, Valdes, Schneider, Fransden, Luna, Wiggington, Martinez, Pierre and Polanco. They’ll need to fill Polanco, Pierre and Wiggington’s spots with Major leaguers, so that leaves about seven (7) spots to protect minor leaguers.
          Big names that can be claimed in Rule 5:
          1. May, 2. Pettibone, 3. Ethan Martin, 4. Cloyd, 5. Rodriguez, 6. Hyatt, 7. Collier, 8. Castro, 9. Ruf, 10. James, 11. Hewitt, 12. Overbeck, 13. Derrick Mitchell

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          1. I haven’t been one of the “call up Ruf” people, but looking at this, it does make a bit of sense to give him a tryout with the big club in September. If he can play a decent LF at CBP and shows he can handle big league pitching, then great. If he tanks, it makes the decision not to protect him easier (and might scare off other teams thinking about stashing him on their own roster in Rule 5). Given the fact that the big club is out of it, I can’t see a downside.

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          2. Are you so sure they’ll remove Frandsen and Valdes? Both guys have played well enough to maybe have a spot on next year’s team. Valdes has been one of the very few effective relievers we’ve had this season.

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          3. Assuming your math and your list are correct (I have no idea if they are or not), here’ who I’d protected. May, Pettibone, Martin, Collier, Casto, Ruf and Rodriguez (just by a hair over James).

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            2. I was always under the assumption that they would protect all of the guys you mentioned, plus Cloyd, but I don’t think so after looking closer. There is probably a Latin pitcher, or two, that I am forgetting.
              I think there is a good chance they leave Castro and Ruf unprotected, protect 6 or 7 pitchers and hope nobody selects Castro and Ruf.

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          5. Charlie Manual wants Pierre back next year it appears, but he still can be left off the ’40’ and resigned at a minor league contract in the spring.

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    5. Joe Lis had the longest, most sweeping swing in baseball. When he connected, it went a long way. ML pitchers got his number quickly. Ruf has a sweet and short swing, could be a much harder guy to pitch to. We shall see, but don’t put him into a class where he does;y belong. He has good fundamentals at the plate and 1B, which is in his favor.

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  5. really funny. I remember J Lis along with Roger Freed and that whole bunch. They couldn’t hit but rally had a lot of fun once you had a bean ball contest. Thanks for the mmeories

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  6. There’s little not to like about Franco’s performance the second half of the season. I’m pretty confident he’s going to be on the national radar big time at this point next year.

    Quinn and Tocci with two SBs a piece. The optimist in me sees this pair terrorizing NL East infielders as the Phils’ 1-2 hitters as the decade draws to a close.

    Ruf and Asche, homer and a double … yawn. 🙂

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  7. Yes,I know buyer beware on Ruf,I realize a lot of these types of players don’t turn out,but some do,look at Eric Kratz,and even he didn’t have a full seson yet.But let me ask you this,how many players did the phillies have in the past five years in the minors that hit even 25 homeruns? I say enjoy the moment,and don’t say that he doesn’t have a chance before he’s given one,which it seems like the phillies experts are determined not to.

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    1. Tommy Joseph hit 22 as a 19 y/o just last year…

      I have no doubt Ruf could come up and hit in the MLB as least as good as any guy we have right now from the right side. Problem is we play in the NL and we have a $125 Million dollar 1B.

      I think the best you can hope for Ruf is that another team comes along and values him fairly well for a position of need for us.

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    2. I like your “enjoy the moment” comment. It’s ok to be excited that a minor league team or player is preforming really well, even if it will never effects the big club.

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  8. My pet thought of the last few days: I like the new guy Joseph. By all reports, one of our top position prospects. However, I would not anoint him our top position prospect outright. Asche, Franco, even Valle, who compares right down the line with Joseph. Both catchers are works in progress behind the plate with physical tools, both need to refine their hitting, both have power, I think both have the potential to be starters, but not sure things.

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    1. Valle does not compare down the line with Joseph. Joseph has more power potential and superior plate discipline. The latter point is huge – Valle does not walk enough or hit for a high enough average to overcome his currently horrible OBP.

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        1. How about this year? They have a similar number of plate appearances. Valle has 12 walks, Joseph has 32. That’s where we are now. How is that similar?

          I don’t hate Valle – I hope he succeeds, especially since his raw tools are so good. But he is going to have a really difficult time doing so if he walks 4% of the time.

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        2. The thing that keep in mind is there are many mlb players that strike out a lot. They just tend to have one other tool that keeps them in MLB. Not sure Valle has that.

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      2. Joseph is also a year younger, which is key. No doubt he’s a better prospect than Valle at this point.

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        1. +1. Again, not the worst problem to have, interesting (to some degree) catching prospects at the top 4 levels of an organization.

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      3. Agree the walk rate gives Joseph an edge. I still see them as comparable prospects, but based on an assumption that Valle will learn the discipline when he has no choice. I like his athleticism and power, his contact skills. They are both works in progress defensively. I value plate discipline as much as anyone, it often implies an intelligent, mindful approach rather than a reckless one, but I think Valle can get there eventually. I guess I still have rose-colored glasses for Valle.

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  10. Who’s this kid that pitched for the GCL today? 18 year old kid, 6 shutout today with 1BB and 5K. Season line looks pretty good too.

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    1. Signed last year after the VSL season. Don’t think he was a high dollar signing but the Phillies thought enough of him to take him directly to GCL. Small lefty, so he could be getting by on deception, though getting starts at GCL is a sign the Phillies may like him more than others. Sometimes lefties are very successful at the lower levels if they have decent command just because hitters have not seen many good lefties yet.

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  11. In the comments to his daily Minor League Box Score piece Kevin Goldstein responded to a question (I am guessing a commenter here) that Franco was a sleeper for Kevin’s Top 101 prospects. Which considering Goldstein had him as 10 in the system between J-Rod and Colvin, this is a good endorsement for Franco. Also remember seeing a Tweet somewhere by Ben Badler that the glove looks good too.

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    1. It was me!

      And KG’s writeup from Franco last year was complimentary; his low ranking mostly reflected his distance from the bigs. Every year he gets closer to Philly while showing improvement makes him that much better a prospect. He’s the only hitter in the system above short season with legitimate star potential (barring something crazy with Hewitt or Collier); the only question is whether he’ll realize it.

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  14. The forgotten baby ace, Jon Pettibone, with a 7 inning CG in Allentown this evening. No need to spend a valuable 40-man spot on him for a September call-up, but he’s earned the right to be the first guy up and into the rotation next season. He’ll get underrated in the Top 30 this offseason, but he’s got enough stuff to be a big leaguer. Top ten for me.

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  15. Cody Asche’s season is becoming absurd. Every night he is getting multiple hits. He is making Michael Taylor’s 2008 look pedestrian.

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    2. It’s getting to the point where if he makes it to the Majors, it’ll be as a reliever.

      Hopefully he can turn his career around like Daniel Bard did. (before they messed with him this year).

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      1. He was pitching well in Clearwater before the promotion. The organization wanted to push him. They probably knew an implosion like this was possible. It’s not really a “panic” moment for me; if he comes out and fails in Reading again next year, then you think bullpen. He’s still got a starter’s frame and a starter’s arsenal.

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    2. “Cody Asche homers…Tyson Gillies scores.” That’s a great thing to read in the Reading gameday.

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  19. Just want to let ALL you INTERNET NERDS the correct info… Roam Quinn has committed another 15 or plus errors that the Org.. for one reason or another has taken off the game Stats. That not ONE other player has had the same favor for… Why?? Maybe you EXPERTS have a reason for that also! Half of his hits are bunts .. which at higher levels will NOT be available. But.. you know more than me.. Right?

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    2. What quantifies an “internet nerd,” exactly? Because you used the internet to post this message for the world to see. By the way, are you sure you want the world to be aware of your ignorance? It might be worth thinking before posting.

      Other than that, thanks for the information. I wasn’t aware you couldn’t bunt for hits at higher levels. I’ll let Juan Pierre know.

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  21. I have been a Ruf disbeliever, but I am going to but that aside and just see if there is role for him just numbers wise on this team going forward.
    The team has been carrying 13 position players so lets eliminate all of the locks on the roster:
    2 Catchers, Starting Infield (Howard, Utley, Rollins, 3B), Outfielders (Brown, Nix, Schierholtz, CF)
    That leaves 3 bench spots, one of which goes to the back up middle infielder (Galvis). This leaves two pinch hitters one of who should be a back 1B, you probably also want a player on the bench who can play (or pretend to play) 3B. You figure the Phillies will want Mayberry in one of these spots. This leaves a couple of scenarios.
    1. Ruf beats out Mayberry for that bench role, meaning either Brown/Schierholtz is your back up CF.
    2. Ruf in the other spot next to Mayberry (or a Mayberry replacement) and Galvis is your only back up at 2B, SS, and 3B.
    3. This requires the Phils to free up another 40 man spot by trade or exposing another prospect to Rule V, and that would be to have Ruf in the Luna role bouncing up and down between AAA and MLB.
    If he was not 1B only he definitely has a spot on this team (essentially if he could be Wigginton defensively).

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    1. Mayberry’s year 26 stats: 267/328/412 with 15 HR and 41 XBH (@ AAA)
      Ruf’s year 26 stats: 311/402/599 with 32 (and counting) HR and 62 (and counting) XBH (@AA)

      Mayberry is a better fielder, but Ruf’s bat is far, far, far better. Not even in the same range. If you are willing to give Mayberry a shot at an OF spot, I can’t see why you wouldn’t give Ruf the same chance.

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      1. You answered your own question. “Mayberry is a better fielder”. He plays 4 positions. Mayberry can be stashed on a bench easily. Nobody has a back-up Firstbaseman.

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        1. i don’t think it is that simple. the question is how much better of an outfielder is Mayberry. because the bat difference is significant. mayberry is a huge liability at the plate. can’t hit RH pitchers at all. and isn’t exactly killing LH’ers. his overall numbers are atrocious. I mean, is Ruf worse than Burrell in LF? Worse than Ibanez?

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          1. “Is he worse than…” I’d say yes, considering he is just learning to play OF.
            As far as Mayberry’s bat, that isn’t the issue. There are at least 4 other 26 year old firstbasemen in the Eastern league that can probably out hit Mayberry. But they can not out hit the 1b on their ML club.
            Mayberry can’t hit, but he plays 4 defensive positions, and plays them well. Mayberry and Ruf aren’t comparable.

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  22. Anonymous vor, great info, stopped the bull and laid the facts on them. Brian m, love the film. Great ab again by Ruf. Short swing, good strike zone rec. waited for a pitch to crush, POP, what do you have to lose sending him up. Should make your 40 man decissions easier. Have any of you guy’s seen Joseph? He is lost right know. He is not any better than Valle def. He hit a lot of hr’s last year. What is this year, a push in gambler’s slang or a throw out in horse racing slang Just because the Dodgers had him rated at 6 in a weak org., don’t throw Valle under the bus. This kid is going to get the first chance and Joseph is going to have. to unseat him. Same with 3b, Asche is going to take third if he can get it away from Frandsen, and a couple of years later Franco gets a chance to take away 3b. If the do it that way and no injuries are involved, we would be in great shape. That way, the next player earns the position and the player that lost the position still has value in a trade. Why not have Asche play 3b and 2b at Reading. Maybe the same for Franco. Hernandez in to small to play 3b. One of my biggest pep peeves is to have a player for 5 years of development and you try to have a player learn a position in the major leagues. I take it as lousey coaching. Winning isn’t the prime job, getting players ready so their natural skills can be seen.

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    1. Joseph is lost? Maybe its because he’s in a new town with a new team and a new organization at what, age 21. But you know better than 20 or 30 veteran baseball observers… here’s why Asche is just playing 3B… maybe they want him to have success and not add to his burdens. What’s Valle average, a walk every 8 games? That’s unsustainable, especially batting down the order.

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      1. It would be a very welcome development. They’re both in the top 5 of the system now possibly. Asche is perhaps more of a stretch there though. Franco would probably be #1 position player and then some people would do Joseph, but Asche will see the bigs first and could be a solid regular at the least.

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        1. Not sure how Asche is a stretch for top 5. Age appropriate (youngish even) 3B raking in AA. And he’s just gotten better since he was promoted. I’d rank him higher than Franco because of proximity, but I know most will put Franco higher. You could make a case for having Biddle, Morgan and Joseph higher but I couldn’t think of another guy who’s deserving.

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          1. Hernandez might warrant a nod because he’s even closer to the Majors than Cody and was raking at AA, too. Vastly different skill sets, but if proximity and production are what puts Asche in the top 5, Cesar has the same qualifications.

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            1. I like Hernandez, but he wasn’t producing like Asche is now. And the difference between AA and AAA is way different than the difference between AA and A.

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            2. As do I, but I have Hernandez vying for the 7/8 spots. Since his promotion I’ve not been terribly impressed, whereas Asche has done nothing but get better. I remember reading somewhere, true top prospects have the ability to increase performance as they move up the system, Asche has certainly done that, though I wouldn’t call him a “blue chip” prospect at this point.

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  24. Big names that can be claimed in Rule 5:
    1. May, 2. Pettibone, 3. Ethan Martin, 4. Cloyd, 5. Rodriguez, 6. Hyatt, 7. Collier, 8. Castro, 9. Ruf, 10. James, 11. Hewitt, 12. Overbeck, 13. Derrick Mitchell

    Thanks for the list. Rule 5 draft is always interesting because fans/players can see who an Organization favors despite all the rhetoric. For example, Phillies may say Castro is doing great but chosing to protect him would prove they are serious.

    Obviously May, Pettibone, and Martin are protected. I think they have to protect Cloyd at this point. Rodriquez has been moved to bullpen so they might leave him off. Hyatt will not after poor AAA showing. Collier is too young to survive on another team’s roster. Most interesting are Castro, Ruf, James who all could contribute to a major league team or be the Phillies starting OF in 2014 (kidding).

    Castro is best all around player. Can field, hit with some power and steal some bases.
    James is the best prospect and probably easiest to ‘hide’ as a defensive replacement and pinch runner. I still think he has some upside but even if he is a .700 OPS GG CF that is not too bad.
    Ruf is the lowest prospect but having the best season. I doubt Phillies protect him, figuring he is not an every day player and hoping to see what he does in LF at AAA next season.

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    1. I’d leave Castro and James off and if you lose either of them in the Rule V you would have lost nothing of great import. Castro, who I actually picked as my sleeper this year, is a free swinger who doesn’t really walk. That won’t play that well in the Majors. James has done nothing to make me think he’ll ever have any kind of solid offensive game.

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    2. “Phillies may say Castro is doing great, but choosing to protect him would prove they are serious.”
      I disagree. One has nothing to do with the other. Teams protect pitchers and shortstops in the high minors, because they are the easiest to hide as 25th man, on a ML roster. If they choose to leave Castro unprotected, but protect Hyatt, it doesn’t mean Castro is worse than Hyatt, it means it would be easier to protect Hyatt in a bullpen.

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    3. I’m wondering if not playing Ruf in LF more is a bit of a tactic to leave him unprotected in the Rule 5, hope nobody takes him because he can mostly only play 1B, and then start the conversion this winter and next year in AAA.

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    4. James is the best prospect among that group? No way. He may be fast and an excellent defensive CF, but he hasn’t shown much with the bat and his K rate is awful,

      I doubt the Phils protect James or Castro. Ruf, maybe.

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  25. Darin Ruf and Cody Asche!!! Here’s some homework for you stat guys.How many players in all of minor league baseball hit 35 or more homeruns last year?
    If anyone thinks that Ryan Howard is blocking Darin Ruf from being moved up to triple A,(I know its a little late now,but I would’ve been aggressive with him two weeks ago) must think like Rueben Amaro,that the Phils still are not that far away from contending.With the way that the Nationals look right now,the phillies management better think outside the box to re-build,or it’ll be years till they’ll compete with the better teams.

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    1. They’ve been playing Ruf in LF in Reading. That’s why he hasn’t been getting moved up to AAA. They want him to try the position at a level he hits fine at. The jump to AAA isn’t much of a difference but it’s still all new pitchers and on top of that he has to keep learning LF.

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    2. The move to AAA is almost irrelevant, he would likely face more breaking pitches and less velocity but otherwise AAA is littered with AAAA players and other retreads. The small advantage of slightly better competition is like outweighed by comfort at his current level especially as Chris said when they are trying him out at a new position.

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    2. Age 22 season:
      Ty Wigginton: 285/319/490/809

      So Asche will be a lot better than Utley, but only a little bit better than Wiggy, right?

      It’s almost like . . . stats aren’t telling the whole story!

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      1. Well played, Rich. That’s an excellent example of how an isolated stat comparison can be completely misleading or irrelevant. Context and big picture perspective are crucial.

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        1. Problem is…Wiggy had over 700 PAs in the pros when he put up those lines of : 285/319/490/809 at age 22 season…whereto Asche had a half-season in 2011. So the big picture is a bit askewed.

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    3. Just to echo Rich’s cautionary statement, remember that Utley skipped all the way from A+ to AAA and raised his OPS from .746 to .813 in AAA. His improvement as he moved through the minors and the majors was amazing.

      I hope Asche can do the same, and his AA line of 291/349/502 is very encouraging. I think we need to keep in mind that his K% in AA is on the high side (20%), reading inflates power, and he is certainly not getting unlucky on batted balls (BABIP of .338 in AA).

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        1. I don’t know if I’d say “way down.” His K% for August – and he has been hot for most of the month – is still 16.5%. You could I guess isolate his last few games and come up with a lower figure, but not that much lower, and of course you’re dealing with a very small sample size. One partial month is already pretty small.

          And SSS is one reason why people are going overboard on Asche. People seem to just entirely discount the early Reading performance, and think that the last couple of weeks or so represents the “real” Asche. That simply places way too much weight on a very small sample.

          I’ve said this before, I’l say it again – I love following Asche and certainly recognize that he has developed into a fine prospect. But all these exaggerated comparisons are getting in the way of that appreciation for me. This isn’t even the worst – yesterday someone decided that Franco and Asche were going to be better than Howard and Utley. I mean, anything is possible, but the chances of that happening are probably one in a thousand. Which is not a knock on either player. Take the two best prospects in the entire minors – the chances that they, over the course of their major league careers, generate as much value as Utley and Howard are probably about 1 in 50 at best.

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    4. I just don’t understand why people can’t appreciate Asche’s season for itself, and for the fact that it does make him a legitimate prospect, without getting carried away with ridiculous comparisons.

      I’d add to the above responses two points: (1) Utley’s career development was HIGHLY unusual, almost unprecedented. Most players who reach a peak as high as his (his peak was among the 10 best ever for a second baseman) are successes in the majors at 22, not mediocre in A ball at 22. (2) As illuminating as the Wiggington comp is, I’m sure that there are many players with comperable age 22 numbers who never even saw the majors, or at least not with any real success. I wish there was an easily searchable minor league data base to help answer questions such as this.

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  27. Oh no! WIllians Astudillo sruck out again in August, three times in the last 10 games, however still only five times over the whole season. Lately, he must be trying to go yard.

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