Who is Going Up?

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Hitting the hot topic of the week, the Phillies have to be considering who to reward for their 2012 performance and who they want to get an early look at for the 2013 season.

The first variable of course is the 40 man roster.  The following minor leaguers are on the 40: Phillipe Aumont, Jake Diekman, Justin DeFratus, Joe Savery, JC Ramirez, Sebastian Valle, Cesar Hernandez, Hector Luna and Tyson Gillies.

Both Lehigh Valley and Reading are in playoff races, and as the Phillies playoff hopes died several weeks ago, there is no urgency to bring in reinforcements.  So, the call ups wont begin in force until the RPhils and/or ‘Pigs are eliminated from contention.

Going through the possibilities one by one:  Aumont–I think will get a shot unless he collpases during the final two weeks of the season. Diekman–Probably goes as the Phils will want him to continue to get work through the end of September and will want to see if he can help in 2013; Savery–I would be very surprised to see Savery back up.  He was awful in Philly and I wouldn’t be surprised to see him with another organization come 2013. DeFratus– I would like to see DeFratus up and he has been pitching well but has thrown limited innings since his return from the DL; Ramirez–Is currently on a nice run but I think the Phils may hesitate to reward him after a fairly mediocre season; Valle– I would be shocked to see him in Philly this year. Hernandez–Ditto; Luna–Will be up if there is an injury, gives the Phils another right handed bat off the bench. Gillies–I think the Phillies would really want to call him up as CF remains on the true question marks moving forward but do they reward someone who has been a true problem child?

Outside the 40 candidiates: Tyler Cloyd should have been up a month ago and I hope the Phils do the right thing, which is to give the callup to someone who has worked tremendously hard to improve and put up stats which have been both outstanding and remarkably consistent. Darin Ruf–Certainly the people’s candidate, however I would be surprised to see the Phillies make that move. You could argue for his callup under the “Cloyd argument”.

Good conversation.  Have at it.

 

73 thoughts on “Who is Going Up?”

  1. As far as Gillies is concerned, I don’t think it will have anything to do with “rewarding” him. Past indescretions happen. Let’s see how he handles himself at the major league level. I’m pretty sure you fall right in line with Utley, Halladay, Pierre, Rollins, and Lee in the clubhouse. Being as he is on the 40, I think they give him a shot to see how he can do.

    I think he’s hitting pretty well this year considering he’s had several layoffs. Hitting a baseball is hard enough. Try stopping and starting every few weeks and see if you can hit .290+.

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    1. Gotta admit how sick I am of people defending Gillies while he plays the part of a clown, while on the other hand hoping he can play so we can utilize his talents. A condundrum to say the least.

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      1. He is surely living up to the Nyjer Morgan comparisons, sadly those comparisons were supposed to be about his play on the field, not off the field

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          1. Pete Orr also played hockey in Canada, and is he of the same emotional maturity level — if that is what the intended inference is there?

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            1. I had to re-read that several times before I got the meaning . The question mark after a phrase that is a statement threw me off. This is not about Pete Orr . I don’t know what Pete Orr’s emotional maturity level is . He is someone I have seen play baseball on TV several times. Perhaps he keeps his deviance out of the public eye. I had considered including something like Gillies and N. Morgan are of an ethnic group not generally known for playing Hockey and as such, may have been exposed to a handful of incidents involving verbalisms and scrapping and fighting and such that others did not and this may have influenced them in some way, in addition to the fact that Hockey players in general have a reputation as drunkards and barroom brawlers. But, I decided to omit all that , because any mention of ethnicity , whatsoever, will bring out a few “Screaming Mimis” that will attempt to assign some sort of negative connotation to it.
              So, I decided to try to avoid all that. Little did I know they would insert that in there on their own, and try to impugn everything anyway. Guess next time I should just insert it in there in the first place.

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  2. With Ruiz around, and playing the last few weeks, they could bring Valle up just to spend time watching Chooch, with 1-2 starts thrown in for good measure. I suspect Cloyd, Diekman, DeFratus, Luna, and Aumont for sure. I would lve to see Ruf and Gillies come up and play in September, not because I’m making a statement that they will succeed but it would be great to watch and see how they play.

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  3. I like this topic, my take on them:
    40-man
    Aumont: No reason not to
    DeFratus: See Aumont
    Diekman: See Above
    Savery: I think they call him up because they can, but don’t see a ton of game action in his future, before his offseason DFA
    Ramirez: Gets the call as a pat on the back
    Valle: Not unless there are more catcher injuries
    Hernandez: I think they are content with using Mini Mart to spell Utley
    Luna: Comes up September 1 to give more options to the team
    Gillies: Depends on Schierholtz injury and Mayberry’s play as to if their is an opening

    Others
    Cloyd: Has to be protected in the offseason anyway as next years #6 starter, bring him up after LHV season is over as long man or shut someone (Worley) down a few weeks early
    Ruf: Too many Rule V guys to be protected to justify 40 man spot, to give him a spot would show a ton about the front office’s confidence in him
    Orr: Your 40-man DFA back up middle infielder (Galvis to 60 day to make room)
    Pettibone: Complete long shot but needs a spot in the winter anyway and could get a spot start if there are injuries

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    1. I agree they may bring up Cloyd in September. Not as any kind of reward, but to shut down Worely.
      They need to protect Worely’s trade value, and sending him out there at less than 100% health to be exposed further as a mediocre talent doesn’t help them.

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    2. @Matt Winks,

      I’d like to see Gillies up regardless of Mayberry’s play. Is Mayberry going to get hot these last 6 weeks and tease us like he did last year? I think Mayberry should just be cut. Yes it’s nice he can play all 3 OF positions and some 1B, but he was pretty useless the first 4 and a half months.

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      1. Personally I think he is the 4th OF next year, which is a role I am fine with him in. I just think the team is committed to figuring out what he can do. I would like to see Gillies get some run to see if he can play but it just isn’t going to happen with Schierholtz, Nix, and Mayberry on the major league roster. When I mentioned Mayberry’s play it was the idea that he could play his way off the team

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        1. Gotcha. I don’t think Schierhotz is much more than a platoon player anyway. I like Nix but doesn’t he have a career .299 obp? He’s nice for that occasional pop. I think Gillies could possibly be a Juan Pierre type, minus the 65 stolen bases. But if he shows that he can grind out ab’s and work some walks, I don’t have much of a problem if he’s our future CF and leadoff man. Remember, Michael Bourn is a career .275 hitter. Guys like Gillies can be valuable and I’d love to see what he can do and I have no problem in him starting off as a 4th OF.

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          1. The real problem with Nix is he can not and never could PH. So why was he ever here and what is his value to the club

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            1. Left Handed bench bat with average pop, take him off the roster and you have Pierre, Martinez, and Schneider as options from the left side. Not complaining now huh?

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    3. Were Savery actually used as a LOOGY (as he probably should be), he’d be a pretty decent reliever, as his splits show he walks RHB, but not LHB and LHB only hit ~.200 against him. He’ll probably never be a high leverage reliever, but he isn’t useless if someone used him correctly.

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  4. The real one who can answer this is Ryne Sandberg. His input should be critical as to who is MLB ready.
    My choice would be Cloyd, Diekman, DeFratus, Aumont , Ruf and Gillies . Let see what we have

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    1. ryan sandberg was leaning on sending derrick mitchell up before he broke his hand, maybe he could be a possibility too even after overcoming an injury

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  5. Let’s mot forget this is the Phils we’re talking about, shall we say thrifty. They’re not call anyone up that does not have a legitimate shot a helping them next year.

    Aumont– still consistency but hard to call
    DeFratus– definitely unless the phils think it’s in his best interest to shut him down
    Deikman– yes
    Savery– no, organizational filler, probably in some other organization
    Valle– no, nor sitting on the bench behind ruiz next year so no reason to bring him up
    Hernandez– hasn’t proven he can hit AAA yet and Utley hasn’t given up yet
    Luna– Frandsen has taken any chance Luna had
    Ramirez– no consistency and too many people ahead of him
    Gillies– Manuel isn’t giving time to the vets in favor of mayberry and brown, there is no way he’ll give time to gillies
    Cloyd– I think he gets a chance and if he doesn’t pull a worley circa 2011 he might not get the 40 man spot because of pettibone and too many other people needed on the 40
    Ruf– not a chance, anybody remember Rizzotti

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        1. Ruf can actually hit for power and isn’t a butcher in the field. Not saying ruf is a prospect though

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          1. Ruf should really have gone up to AAA a few weeks back. He doesn’t have anything to prove at AA anymore. Try him and if he can hang, he can hang. If not, then no loss.

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  6. I think Diekman, De Fratus, Luna, and Cloyd are the ones that have a good chance. Maybe Gillies, but that would be a long shot. I really doubt we see any of the other guys. Even Aumont who’s had enough trouble trying to keep it under control in AAA.

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  7. Aumont– I guess he is so inconsistent
    DeFratus– yes he needs to hone his skills
    Deikman– yes he needs to hone his control skills
    Savery– no, time to cut bait on him
    Valle– yes Ruiz influence can help
    Hernandez maybe he’s is not ready yet..
    Luna– no, Kevin frandsn is the man
    Ramirez– yes he has be more consistent lately
    Gillies– yes he has be more consistent lately
    Cloyd– yes he’s worked hard and deserves it
    Ruf– yes he’s worked hard and deserves it; but based on Benny Loopy’s recent comments, it probably wont happen – probably based on what Ruin Tomorrow, Jr. thinks

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    1. corrected:||| resent ||| sorry
      player y/n,comment
      Aumont– I guess,he is so inconsistent
      DeFratus– yes, he needs to hone his skills
      Deikman– yes,he needs to hone his control skills
      Savery– no, time to cut bait on him
      Valle– yes,Ruiz influence can help
      Hernandez– maybe, he’s is not really ready yet..
      Luna– no, Kevin Frandsen is the man
      Ramirez– yes,he has bene more consistent lately
      Gillies– yes,he has bene more consistent lately
      Cloyd– yes, he’s worked hard and deserves it
      Ruf– yes, he’s worked hard and deserves it; but based on Benny Loopy’s recent comments, it probably wont happen – probably based on what Ruin Tomorrow, Jr. thinks..

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  9. I can’t believe the people on here saying Ruf doesn’t stand a chance to be a good player in the bigs.Ansd those same people think that Collier will be in their top 15,after he hits a few homeruns.If Ruf would be two years younger,you guys would fall off your chair!

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    1. There is a huge difference here:
      – Collier was a high pick with a ton of tools finally putting them together
      – Collier is 5 years younger
      – Collier plays a premium defensive position, Ruf is 1B only
      – If Ruf was 24 we might be more excited
      – ALL the experts don’t think that Ruf could do anything other than be a bench player at best. This isn’t one guy being wrong, even the Phillies don’t seem to be high on him. So unless you are the greatest prospect evaluator of all time don’t compare Collier and Ruf as prospects, the only thing they have in common is that they are in the same system

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        1. All the experts haven’t seen him play every day. His manager of two years thinks very highly of his ability and his chances.

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            1. Yeah, that’s what the other teams do to evaluate players, they have guys scour the newspapers and Internet to see what the quotes are.

              As to the poster above who goes on about what the experts say, and it seem by the amount of verbiage he puts out he considers himself one of them. Perhaps they missed the Shemp Jordan interview the other day where he stated Ruf was being considered for a September call-up, and the statement in everything I ever read from Philly BB personnel they believe the bat will play. And to the non-experts on here, the fact they stated Ruf will go the Venezuelan Winter League, does not mean he could not get a September call-up or go to the Arizona Fall League.

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            2. Marfis, there are a few people underestimating Ruf around here – including Matt a little bit – but many, many more, including you, over hyping him by a lot. He could succeed as a major league player, but the odds against him are still long.

              Do the experts “believe the bat will play?” Yes, but that doesn’t mean quite what you and others seem to think it means. There are plenty of kids who have a major league bat, but don’t make it because they are late bloomers, because of positional or defensive limitations, or some combination thereof. Ruf may end up being one of those. Will his bat “play” as a starting 1B, or “play” well enough to make up for likely sub par defensive play in LF? FWIW, the “experts” seem to think probably not. Comparisons are made to Ibanez (especially, because of the late bloomer issue) and Burrell. But both players had more accomplished minor league careers overall, and both, when they broak in, were adequate defensive left fielders.

              In a purely abstract sense, the role that makes most sense for him would be as a reserve OF/1B, platooning with Howard. But the Phillies are not likely to reduce a 125 million dollar player, who has meant as much to the franchise as Howard has, to a platoon role. And I say that as one of Howard’s critics. That option aside, what role is realistic for Ruf? A reserve perhaps, but it’s hard for me to get excited about that. Regular LF? No thanks. Aside from the defensive limitations, his age means he is likely already at or near his peak. If his hitting is good enough now to offset his fielding, it might not stay that way for long. He would likely be a stop gap at best.

              Now, I COULD be wrong about that. IF he gets better defensively and maintains his hitting, then maybe he deserves and gets a shot. But RIGHT NOW, even without a FA sign, a Schierholtz/Mayberry platoon in left would be much better defensively than Ruf and likely almost as good offensively.

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            3. How bout this … let’s leave Howard and the Phillies out of it. Is Ruf good enough to make it as a ML first baseman? That is the only thing I think about when evaluating him. And the only reason I get excited about him. There are a lot of weak first basemen in the MLs. If he is left unprotected after hitting 35 HRs with a good glove, I believe there is a big chance he gets picked up. JMO.

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            4. If he does get picked up, good for him. There isn’t a spot for him in Philly and if he goes and kills it in Tampa or Seattle then that would be awesome.

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            5. Which isn’t to say that a September call up or Arizona Fall league is out of the question. IMO the biggest barrier to the former – and to Ruf’s continued Philies career – is the 40 man roster decision. Some tough chocies to be made there, and IMO it’s entirely possible that Ruf gets left off for some higher upside guys.

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            6. I think the whole 40 man roster thing is overdone. By my count , if the 40 man roster list above is correct (it may not be , because they still have Joe Blanton on it, (but I figure it just insert E. Martin in place of Blanton and the numbers are the same) there is only 39 on there now. And You could place Michael Stutes on the 60 day DL and open another spot. I figure the only non-roster prospects they might want to call up before the end of the season might be Ruf and Cloyd. So , if they wanted to call them up for the end of this season, they could.
              Next year, there could be a problem, maybe. The HS draftees from ’08 and the older and College draftees from ’09 they need to protect. Usually they can protect everyone they need to protect, there also, as being removed from the roster are the unrestricted Free Agents, the non-tenders, and a few stalwarts that could be released from the current squad.
              I haven’t looked into it enough for a clear idea as everything gets rushed on here, but I figure there are around 5 HS picks from ’08 to protect and maybe Ruf and/or Austin Hyatt from the “09 draft. It depends on whether they release a few of the current team and the status of UFA types non-tenders of options and arbitration eligibles, and how much space can be left for signing MLB Free Agents, and possible Rule 5 picks.
              As to your previous, I don’t believe i promoted Ruf too much, if at all, and what I have placed on here recently is more of the questioning of Ruf for what I consider to be bogus reasons.

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  10. Is Sept 1 a hard and fast date to be put on the 40 man roster or could some come up after their post season ends? Personally, I would like to see the legitimate candidates stay down to get the playoff experience and exposure to see how they handle it Tough call on Valle. If he is brought up it means he is most likely the emegency call up next year, assuming Schneider is let go and Kratz is the fulltime backup to Chooch. If not, Valle could be trade bait early next season with T Joseph looming as emergency callup if he shows well in ST. No to Luna and Savery. I want Frandsen to get as many bats as possible. Lets see if he can handle the rigors of everyday play for the remainder of the season. Worley should be shut down and let Cloyd have his day. it will either shut everybody up for the winter or give the coaches something to think about for next years rotation

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    1. After September 1 the MLB roster expands to 40 in lieu of 25. A player can be added anytime between September 1 and the end of the season.

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  11. Kratz has wrapped up the back-up role behind Ruiz next year it appears. Having his powerful bat on the bench approx. 70% of the time would be a shame.

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  12. I think you guys are forgetting the value of having an extra catcher. Once rosters expand, the Phils are sure to bring up at least one catcher- they always do. Last year’s extra catcher I’ve managed to forget as he was awful. This year it will likely be Valle. If not, then Joseph or maybe even Tuffy.

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  14. Prescient post. Per beat writers, Aumont called up this evening. Hoping he gets into tomorrow’s game, what with Cliff Lee starting and all . . .

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  15. Great Topic
    The key, of course, in the 40-man folks.
    I see the relief pitchers getting called up just because it does not really hinder their schedule and Dubee and Ruiz could see a little bit of them before next year.
    Guys that might be off 40-man are Savery, Ramirez, and Luna; especially if Phillies want to add Cloyd. No reason to see more of Savery, should be DFA. Luna is little help at this point unless Polanco or Wigginton are traded. I would like to see Ramirez get called up (unless he still has chance to go to AFL) so they see if he deserves a roster spot. He is already out of options.

    For position players, I’d like them called up only if they might play. Valle makes some sense as 3rd C (just cut Schnieder now), while Hernandez might not get much time due to Martinez (ugh). Gillies should just stay in minors. Let him have a chance in Spring Training but is likely AAA to start next season and possible callup midseason. Ruf is likely unprotected anyway so why bring him up now.

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    1. Something is intriguing about Schneider, I want he off the team just as much as the next guy, but he works well with the young pitchers. He has caught Kendrick’s only three good starts (CG vs. STL, Last week vs. MIA, and Sunday vs. MIL), plus Worley loves to work with him, and he caught Adam Morgan’s 13 Strikeout game while on rehab. Maybe the Phillies bring him back on a minor league contract and put him in AAA as a 4/5th string catcher, and take Suomi’s role as a filler C/1B left handed bat. It couldn’t hurt if he is so valuable to the young pitchers especially with the string of Baby Aces that will be in Lehigh Valley

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      2. I called for having Kratz as a back-up over Schneider a year ago. If he (Schneider)is not here next season, he will be on another MLB roster. He is not going to be a back-up at AAA. Defensive soundness and the handling of pitchers is what they look for in Catchers, not some kind of offensive prowess without it.

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        1. Congrats! You were one of about a million Phillies fans who called for Kratz over Schneider. How is it that you haven’t landed a front office job?

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          1. Congrats! You are one of about a million people who used the Internet today to be obnoxious for no good reason.

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  16. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Gillies come up. Considering we don’t have a true Center Fielder on the roster, he’d be valueable as a pinch runner late in the game for a guy like Ryan Howard or as a defensive replacement in Center.

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  17. Great to see Aumont get the call, it doesn’t hurt to bring him up now. Gregg, I have been waiting for this article for weeks! Great Job

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  18. How long has it been since the Phils were out of the race in August?.. Last time I can remember was when they traded.s Abreu to the Yanks. Wait… they finished a game or two back that year. So it’s been a long, long time. In the recent past, they only bring up a few players because they aren’t going to play much in a pennant race. Now they can bring up everyone and anyone. What does it hurt? Cloyd should get a once over. Of course I’m not sure what that will do because he’ll be pitching against his share of AAA guys anyway… unless they give him a start against a quality team in the pennant race. That will show us something. There’s a lot of good ideas listed above and I’m not against many of the them. Anybody who won’t be on the roster next year, who’s not in the minors right now, shouldn’t play. And shut down Worley and get those bone chips out of there before he really hurts something. Pitching with pain can alter the way you throw. All kinds of problems can come from altering the way you throw. One slight adjustment can cause damage.

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  19. why aumont instead of De fraus. quess its only a two day call up and they just wanted a body.. because right now aumont doesnt deserve any call up. he isnt a pitcher , just a thrower, maybe someday he will get it, but so far he is a bust.

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  20. I’m surprised there isn’t greater support for calling up Valle after the LV season is thru. The Phils will certainly call-up a 3rd catcher, so if not Valle, who? The best thing that could probably happen in Valle’s development is for him to spend some time with Ruiz. Even better so if they’re both observing the game from the bench. After some consideration, I now think it’s a no-brainer to call him up

    Agree with the three BP arms (De Fratus, Aumont (called up this morning but will likely return to LV in a few days) and Diekman). I also agree with Savery which makes you think. If he’s not worthy of a Sept call-up, then why is he on the 40-man. I suspect Savery doesn’t get called up and that he’s likely played in final season in the Phil’s org.

    Gillies – yes. Give this kid a taste of the bigs for a few weeks
    Cesar – yes. Again, even if he plays only a handful of games

    This is a different season for the Phils than in years past when they would callup only a handful of games. They have ample openings to take a look at some of the youngsters and I think we’ll see a much different call-up scenario than we have in year’s past

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  21. It surprises me that Valle takes as many shots as he does. We’ve had him since he was 16 and now he is 22 and in LHV and let’s not forget he was with the big club getting AB’s in ST. They think highly of him. I’d be somewhat surprised if he didn’t get a call up unless LHV makes the playoffs.

    Gillies is interesting as we know the reasons why he shouldn’t however the reasons why he may are equal. He led off for them in ST, he is a solid CF and he was part of the Cliff Lee deal. Then there are the numbers. 1300+ PA’s he is a career .305/.390/.800+ OPS.

    So with limited options in the CF FA market I can see him getting a look.

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  22. I say bring gillies up and stick him right next to Juan Pierre. Let him learn and realize that he can’t keep pulling this dumb stuff. I hope they tell him that one more incident and he’s gone.

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    1. Nice call there. Stop tweeting and start focusing. Time to grow up and not waste your talent..before its gone.

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  23. I’d call up (Aumont already up) De Fratus, Diekman, Cloyd, Pettibone, Valle, Hernandez, Gillies and Ruf.

    I don’t see the 40 player roster limit as a big constraint this off-season, even with some free agent pickups.

    Beyond this 40, you’re lot losing much:

    Aumont, Bastardo, Cloyd, De Fratus, Diekman, Halladay, Hamels, Herndon, Horst, Kendrick, Lee, Lindblom, Martin, May, Papelbon, Pettibone, Rodriguez, Rosenberg, Schwimer, Stutes, Worley

    Kratz, Ruiz, Valle

    Frandsen, Galvis, Hernandez, Howard, Martinez, Rollins, Utley, Wigginton

    Brown, Gillies, James, Mayberry, Nix, Pierre, Ruf, Schierholtz

    Maybe J.C. Ramirez for Jiwan James.

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  24. I am guessing James, and Martinez would be DFA’d for FA pickups and Wigginton. Overall good list seems pretty realistic

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    1. I didn’t see where James was ever on the 40 man roster.
      As far as above list goes, Wigginton can be bought out, else maybe they have to pay the full 4 million. Stutes – didn’t see, given his shoulder surgery that he is going to return for sure. Pierre- if they are going to re-sign him maybe they could wait till after the Rule 5 draft. They could non-tender Mayberry and Schierholtz if they want, maybe bounce Gillies, If they don’t include J. C. Ramirez , then they have to DFA him.
      I believe they”d like to have a couple of spots for early Free Agent signings, maybe Rule 5 picks.

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      1. Pierre goes away. No one is going to rush to sign him. He was available this January, he’ll be available next January. If he isn’t, there are plenty of other 6th OFs out there to sign.
        The won’t non-tender Mayberry or Schierholtz. Those are the 4th and 5th OFs next year.
        Schneider goes away.
        Valdes goes away.
        Luna goes away
        If Polly’s option is declined then his spot clears
        Hopefully Martinez goes away

        That’s likely 5 openings, plus they could cut bait or trade Wiggy, Savery, Rosenberg and maybe others.

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