Box Score Recap 8-18-2012

Box Score Recap

Hard to argue with the line from Ethan Martin last night.  4H, 2BB, 7K in 7 scoreless IP.  Also nice performance from Seth Rosin, and 2 scoreless from Ryan O’Sullivan.  2-4 with a double and an RBI for Gabriel Lino.  Too bad Tommy Joseph took the collar.  He ruined the 2012 trade class’ night.  I’m sure they all went back to their respective hotels and cursed his name.

Also, Aaron Altherr back from the DL with 2 hits in a DH role for Lakewood.  And Larry Greene has 5 hits in four games this week – all doubles.

LV  REA  CLR  LKW  WIL  GCL 2 games, both cancelled  DSL

106 thoughts on “Box Score Recap 8-18-2012”

  1. IMHO, has cloyd seemed less than sharp in his past 3 starts, is it fatigue, pressure, batter familiarity?

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    2. Funny that his “less than sharp” outings are still all quality starts, so can’t complain about that. It’s probably fatigue though, he’s pitched 6 or more innings in all but 1 outing I think, bringing his IP to 160 on the year.

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      1. I know everyone is excited about Cloyd, but remember in 2002 Joe Roa was 14-0 with a 1.86 ERA at Scranton WB. He was a very marginal major leaguer.

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        1. Joe Roa was never given a legitimate chance as a starter in MLB. His 14-0 season at AAA was when he was 30. He didn’t pitch in MLB after he turned 25.

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  2. I like the way Larry Greene has approached this year. He has developed a plate discipline without swinging too hard. He is meeting the ball and hitting line drives. He is not worried about home runs. Does this remind you of the Asche approach at Clearwater? Domonick Brown? The coaches seem to be really helping the hitters. They always say, if the power is there it will come. Don’t force it.

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  3. Asche, GIllies, Knigge, Friend , Diekman continue to crush…

    Larry Greene loving the doubles…..

    Ethan martin NICE!!

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  4. Looking like the team finally made a few trades that might pan out for minors. Help with ratings and depth. Loaded in starting pitching and catching. Now if we can still see returns on the AA guys and lower. System could start to get back on feet and as dismal As season for big club has been. Maybe we luck out get a great draft pick next year. And keep on building. Spend money fill holes and keep looking two plus years ahead in minors. If biddle was in AA that rotation would be nasty. Biddle, Martin, Morgan , and the two disappointments of year. May and colvin.

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  5. Martin seems to now have reasonable control. So much for past stats. Not much holding him back

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    1. Looks like his Ks are down but so are the walks. He’s still over 4 BB/9 on the year, but its a huge improvement.

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  6. Lino .371/.421/.686 over his last ten. Martin’s been a revelation — he’ll be a steal if he keeps this up.

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      2. Keith Law said as much when the trade went down. I thought the Phillies made out very well.

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  8. The GCL umps let Mitch Gueller use a Daisy Red Ryder BB gun to fire BB’s at the catchers mitt, but the hitters barreled up the BB’s for gappers.

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  10. Rookie Ball——-SO/9
    Brett Myers——10.0
    Ryan Madson——8.7
    Kyle Kendrick—-7.5
    Brody Colvin —-9.0
    Trevor May——-8.2
    Julio Rodriguez–7.0–(age 17)
    Julio Rodriguez–10.0 (age 18)
    Mitch Gueller—-4.9

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    1. Let 2013 playout for Mitch G…..when he will have played his ‘rookie ball’, as the rest of your list did, the year after they signed their first pro contract.

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      1. Huh?

        Only Julio Rodriguez who was 17 fits that scenario. Jonathan Pettibone spent his second year at age 18 in Williamsport and averaged 9.2 SO/9.

        Would you like to see Cole Hamels numbers the “year after they signed their first pro contract”?

        I’ll give you a hint: No you would not.

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  11. Dugan on .300 watch. He also hit his 29th double last night.

    Asche up to .279 at Reading. Hard to believe almost. Might as well place him on the .300 watch as well with the way he’s racking up the hits

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  12. Pretty much every pitcher we’ve traded for this season has gone on to pitch noticeably better for us than he had been previously. Anyone notice any comments from the developmental guys as to whether we might have made any mechanical tweaks? With Martin the walk rate seems to have gone down drastically.

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    1. If they made tweaks to their mechanics, the results would almost certainly be worse. It’s hard to pitch (or hit) well when you first start doing something different. It’s much more likely that they’re just hot right now (or pitching/hitting to form, whereas their past performance was under-performance).

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  15. From what I’m hearing it sounds like Morgan’s four run inning had more to do with poor defensive decisions by Abreu and Castro

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  17. People really think cloyd is a major league pitcher., did you watch him last night, 86 on the fastball, comeon be serious you people on here follow this sport. how in all honesty can you reason that a guy with that marginal stuff, can be a big league pitcher.

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    1. Jamie Moyer pitched for years with an 82 mph fastball. While he is the rare exception, with the right command and better secondary pitches, it can happen.

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      1. He’s also a Lefty…completely different.

        You should go with Shaun Marcum that level of velocity as a RHP.

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  18. I like the Clearwater line: Seth Rosin (part of pence trade) & Ryan O’Sullivan (from blanton) trade looking good.

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  19. you can add Ethan Martin name (from victorino trade) and you have makings of some great moves by phillies.

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    1. Add in a BB and you have 4 PAs with .750 OBA for the day including a HR. Not bad for a guy now hitting approaching the magical .300 mark. See you in Philly soon, Cody!

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  21. As I was watching Dom Brown get thrown out at home on a single up the middle I started wondering if Brown’s knee problems are taking away some power, any thoughts?

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    1. Doubt it. The knees don’t have much of anything to do with power. Really the only thing the lower body has to do with power is when you plant your leading foot. Almost all of the power comes from the hips and arms (and the torque created by them).

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      1. That is completely wrong actually…a great example of that would be Utley and his knee issues. Most guys get a good bit of their power from their legs.

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    2. At this point, it is good to see Brown making contact, hitting the ball where it is pitched and getting more walks than Ks. Hitting with men in scoring position is also a plus. Power will come later. once he is comfortable.

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  23. KK—17 starts this year, I come up with 11 ‘quality’ starts, with 4/5 no decisions in those quality starts. I guess thats all you can ask for a 5th.

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    1. Really? Ahead of Joseph?

      Joseph is a year younger, plays a more important position, has a better pedigree, and scouts say better things about his potential right now.

      Admittedly Asche is hitting better at the same level, but a lot of the difference is BABIP-driven, and last year Joseph hit a lot better in A+ than Asche did in A-.

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      1. I think so yeah. Joseph isn’t a sure thing as a cather, he has to improve to be adequate enough to stick at the position. Asche can be inked in as a third baseman. Third base is a barren position all throughout baseball so to me the positional difference isnt that great. This is Asche’s first full season as a pro and he’s already knocking on a September callup. That kind of trajectory earns him the nod over Joseph.

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        1. I thought the questions about Joseph sticking at catcher were largely a thing of the past? i.e. that was what was holding him back from being considered a top prospect, but now most scouts think he’ll stick, which is why his prospect status has gone up so much in the last year.

          I think that when you factor in age and tools, Joseph projects to be a better hitter than Asche. Since I’ve heard at least one scout say Joseph could possibly play first in the majors, it seems others agree with his offensive potential. That said, I certainly can’t fault you for preferring the guy who’s putting up better numbers right now at the same level, especially at a position of need for the big club.

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        3. I like what Asche has done, but defensive value is still huge between as a C vs a 3B. Third base is still in the bottom/mid of the defensive spectrum, while C is right at the top.

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      2. I don’t see anything from Joseph with the bat that indicates he is anything special. If he did have “plus-plus power” then where did it go? Does he have a shoulder injury?

        The EL is not a difficult place to hit HR.

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        1. I don’t think all the parks in the EL are as hitter friendly as Reading’s. He does have 9 HRs this year and is young for the league. Let him repeat it in 2013 and we’ll have a better idea then.

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        2. He hit 22 HRs last year (.201 ISO). He got off to a slow start this year in AA, but then started heating up, hitting .288 / .370 / .488 in July before the trade.

          Since then, the Phils’ coaches have changed some things at the plate, which may explain his bad numbers recently (i.e. he’s adjusting to the changes).

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  25. I was hoping we would have acquired Mike Olt from the Rangers. Currently hitting .222 with 0 homers. I will be happy to wait for Asche, also 2 years younger than Olt

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    1. If Amaro even thinks of trading Lee for anyone other than Jurickson Profar he’ll need body guards.

      As soon as Lee was traded the Phillies would have starting pitching problems, and acquiring top SP talent is going to be very expensive. The Phillies made their moves at the right time.

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  26. Check it: Asche now has 7 HRs in 53 games in Reading…which in 162 game pace indicates 21 HRs per season. Enough power for a guy just a bit over 6′ and currently listed at 180 lbs. Consider a “muscle-up” off season. Why not then a 25 HRs/season? Plus that high BA and OBA.

    He is still filling out physically and ultimately would probably be at 6’2″ and 190 lbs. Still with enough speed to steal some bases and run them well. I see him hitting at 33 in the lineup replacing Utley there in a while.

    The question soon will be whether gillies will get a shot at CF in ’13. He’s been hitting pretty well and is getting up to near that magiocal .300 line. Apparently there is little to complain about his CFing and he supposedly has a good arm and certainly the speed to catch up with the batted ball. IMO, he SHOULD be given that shot at CF w the big club; we take notice that there is a vacuum for our CFer for ’13.

    Let the kids play!

    In other news: Collier is getting to be a serious candidate for an outfield spot in Reading for ’13…and looking like he could end up in MLB. Just 21 now, though it seems he’s been around forever. Notice 1 HR in Clwtr in each of his last 3 games, including today. He is clearly trying, along with coaches, to elevate the angle of his swing for more power. So far results are good …in this short time. He supposedly has good speed and they have occasionally been playing him in CF to see how he does. Add him to among our coming outfielders!

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    1. Collier and Dugan have really impressed. I like Dugan way more than a guy like Castro who is a mediorce-power hacker.

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    2. Collier is about 99.8% chance of starting next year at CF in Reading. There really isn’t much chance he repeats CLW, and he has been playing CF almost exclusively.

      Gillies needs to worry about just staying healthy and playing a full season. If he happens to completely blow everyone away and make the team next year, that would be great but very unexpected. I wouldn’t suggest the Phillies refrain from signing OF help because of him.

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      1. Plus it’s not like Reading will be bursting with OF prospects next year. At least I doubt it. James could repeat the level but I see Gillies in AAA. Not sure what they’ll do with Castro and Myers, and if the offseason goes really well, Ruf will be in LHVs outfield.

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        1. I think Gillies and Castro will go to LV, if Castro passes through the rule 5 unclaimed. I think James, will repeat Reading, if no one claims him in rule 5.
          Gillies CF for Iron Pigs. Collier will be the CF in Reading. Altherr will be CF in Clearwater.

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    3. I think it’s just so amazing that this web site contains so many people who are – often even without seeing the players – obviously the best group of talent evaluators in the nation! Of course the self evident idiocy of not just the Phillies’ front office, but EVERY front office in baseball, and ALL the outside “experts” has a lot to do with that. But clearly, the Phillies have jumped from near the bottom to the VERY top in major league ready talent, with Pettibone, Gilles, Martin, Cloyd and Asche ready to STAR in the major leagues, with several other players knocking on the door!

      It’s a shame it’s only the people here who recognize it, who have the uncanny ability to project that Asche is going to hit more than three times as many HR per year as he has thus far in his minor league career.

      It’s too bad the people who make up the top 100 lists are so stupid; clearly the Phillies deserve to have at least 4, maybe 6, players not just in the top 100, but the top 50!

      But I don’t think you go far enough. What the Phillies REALLY need to do is to waive the entire major league roster, and bring up the best 25 players from AA and AAA. It is a little puzzling why the Reading Phillies ever lose, let alone almost 50% of the time.

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      1. Oh, darn, forgot about Ruf. Between Asche, Ruff, Gillies, Pettibone, Martin and Cloyd, we’re looking at SWEEPING the top 6 spots in the ROY voting next year! I don’t think it’s too soon to predict the best rookie class in baseball HISTORY!!!! Aumont and DeFratus will probably also be top 10.

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        1. Your sarcasm falls way short. If you wanna discuss the failures and downsides of prospects instead, maybe you want to find another board.

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          1. Are you suggesting that the only thing we should discuss about the prospects are the positive aspects? If that is the case, you are setting yourself up for heartbreak when you realize that all those good things you have to say about prospects still leads to roughly 99.9% of them never having success at the major league level.

            Either acknowledge all aspects of the prospect or don’t discuss them. Being disingenuous only leads to people getting their hopes up very high only to have them dashed almost 100% of the time.

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            1. Absolutely not, but read his post again and then show me where anyone on this board is advocating the positions that LarryM is spouting. If anything most people are realistic and know we have probably just one top 100 guy in Biddle.

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            2. The most unrealistic people generally don’t engage in the top 100 discussions – of course I exaggerate a little, but re-read Art’s post (and he isn’t the only or even the worst offender) and tell me I don’t have a point. If Asche really was going to be that kind of player, and if Gillies really was in a position to be the Phillies CF in 2013, then they WOULD be top 100 players.

              I shouldn’t be surprised, though; if the Rizzottis of the world can be hyped to the extent he was 2 years ago, it’s not surprising that a solid prospect at a position of need like Asche can be turned into a future all star.

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            4. There are exceptions to every rule. That makes your comments as bad as the guy you are trying to disparage. Yes, Gillies could be in cf in Phila. in 2013. There are many factors becides quality. I know you are blowing off steam.. There are to many guys who just read stats. They truley don’t have a clue.

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            5. The strangest thing that I found in Art’s post is that Asche is going to grow another inch or two at the age of 22.

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        2. Yep…sounds like you got it right. A clean sweep for the ROY. But you really should try to temper your enthusiasm since that would be real a long shot for all of them to be considered, maybe only 4 or 5.

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    4. If it were not for the early nagging injuries in 2010 and 2011 and the PED suspension this year…Collier may have been headed for the AFL in 2012 and LHV in 2013.

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      1. Collier can be sent to the AFL this year. Each team can send an A ball player to the Fall league.
        Being that Collier didn’t get a whole season worth of ABs, I’d say he has a good chance at being the A ball choice to go to the AFL.

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        1. Knowing Philly FO…if I was a betting man, I would put money that he will not be sent to the AFL. and instead head for the FIL for more instructs..

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    5. I have been Collier fan since get-go. Its nice to see some power from him. I have no idea where he would hit in ML….lead off?

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  28. Who would’ve thought at this time in the season that Tyler Greene would have more HRs than LGJ!? Still not saying I don’t believe in LGJ, I think he is a way better prospect than T Greene

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    2. Don’t look now, but the ‘terrible’ Tyler Greene is about to pass the sweet-swinging Mitch Walding in batting average.

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  29. Seriously, though, while some people here CLEARLY think that the only way to enjoy following a minor league player is to exaggerate his abilities by a factor of 10, for me it is just the opposite. This is in many ways by far the best site for following the Phillies prospects, but my joy in watching players like Ruf (really amazing season, but still a fringe prospect at best) and Asche (who COULD be a solid major league player, but is still at least a year away, and is not someone who is likely to hit ever hit 20 HR in a season, let alone 35. or to have a BA over or even close to .300 on a career basis) is severely undermined by listening to ignorant people proclaim them 2013 all stars. Well, they MIGHT be 2013 all stars – in AAA,

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    2. I agree with you, Larry. Having such unrealistic expectations about these players just leads to severe disappointment when they almost certainly fail to meet them.

      Think of it this way, people; what did you enjoy more, Dom having ridiculous fanfare only to fall short of expectations (I know, he wasn’t given much a real chance until now, but bear with me), or Vance Worley surprising everyone by pitching much better than anyone reasonably expected of him?

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    3. I think it’s a little early to make declarations about Asche’s power either way, don’t you? Guy is barely 22. I wouldn’t be shocked if he developed 15-20 home run power.

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      1. 15-20 HRs is plenty considering the crap options we’ve had at 3B since Rolen left.

        He in just his 2nd year with wooden bats and he’s hitting a good amount of doubles. Some of those will turn into HRs as he matures.

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    4. While you make some okay points and I agree that sometimes people on this site display some irrational exuberance when it comes to our prospects…the tone you take to make those points weakens their impact. There’s no need to be such an arse.

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        1. tonyg22——- LarryM, though at times he can be exasperating and condescending, he does bring a good dosage of baseball statistical knowledge and well-thought out analysis to the table. Nobodies perfect.

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  30. Roman Quinn has been a real bright spot in his first full year. Leading off and becoming a switch hitter. A lot to learn in a short amount of time. Would love to see him at Lakewood next year.

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    1. It looks like his error rate has gone way down. So it looks like he’s a quick learning in many areas.

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  31. Went to the ironpigs game tonight a few notes on what I observed

    Since its fresh in my mind I will start with Aumont, maybe I caught him on a bad night but it was like nightmare flashbacks of Reading again. Problems with control got behind every batter 2-0 or 3-0 it seemed, 1 walk 1 hit batter gave up 3 hits 4 runs all earned, had come in with a one run deficit in the top of the 9th in what had been a competitive game until he came to the hill anyway. Fastball seemed a little slower to me that the 95-97 I had seen and heard about recently he was in the 91-94 range. Couldn’t locate anything really, I had thought he progressed so much more

    DeFratus- 2 ip 1 hit and 4 k’s fastball around 93, looked pretty good.

    Valle- had hurt himself catching I think it was his hand, around the 4th inning OT so, he stayed in the game, was in affective at the dish and was pulled in favor of Suomi during a late inning rally. 

    Hernandez- very patient at the dish but only had one hit, all his AB’s were quality tho

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