General Discussion – Week of 6-25-2012

Weekly Discussion

Your non-prospect related spot for the week. This week I’ll call it “Intrastate Love Song”, and suggest you discuss how the Pirates have the same colors as the Steelers and the Penguins, and how dumb the Phillies would look in orange or green.  Or both.  Eww…

59 thoughts on “General Discussion – Week of 6-25-2012”

  1. Philly.com (uasually crap) had an article today about how the phillies should trade utley in the office to an AL team as DH while swallowing salary. I disagree, but I do think we replace him at second in the offseason. If he comes back healthy great, but I just can’t trade him…let his contract run its course and move on. Thoughts?

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    1. scratch that “in the office” part of the first sentance, seems i pasted something by accident (iphone error!)

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    2. I don’t think you could get value for Utley right now. There isn’t enough time before the trade deadline for him to prove he can stay healthy and still mash.

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      1. in fairness I think the article’s opinion is trade him in the off season if his bat shows any life. Even still your probably only going to find a team that will eat half his salary at best, only worth it if you need a few million more to sign Cole I guess.

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    3. Supra98x….this will make you happy…Don McKee writer suggest a Hamels to Pads trade for Chase Headley and Carlos Quentin. Headley is your boy if I remember correctly.

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      1. That would be a terrible deal, particularly with Cesar waiting in the wings at 2B. Also, can’t imagine San Diego trading for Hamels after he was so critical of their organization earlier in the year.

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          1. I stand corrected (don’t know why I’ve always thought of him as a 2B). In that case, his numbers don’t stand out to me as a 3B worthy of trading Hamels for. His OPS has never been above .800.

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      2. Haha, Headley is rocking a fantastic walk rate this year and he’s just 28. But yes, Hamels as a rental for Headley isn’t a horrible deal assuming they aren’t going to resign him. He’s cheap (relatively) and is putting up decent power to go with his walk rate.

        It all boils down to resigning him, which at this point doesn’t look like it’s even a possibility.

        So what we’re really evaluating is compensation for losing him VS Headley and Quentin. If Quentin is signed for alteast 2 more years, this is not a horrible deal.

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        1. My thoughts exactly. Are the Pads even a baseball team right now? I think LHV could beat them in a 5 game series.

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      4. What would a team going no-where (SD) trade for a pitcher about to become a FA? If Hamels isn’t going to give the Phillies a home-team discount the small-market Padres aren’t getting one.

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        1. Literally, San Diego could get a home-town discount from Colebert, since Ma and Pa and Bro are there.

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    4. If you replace him at 2B in the off-season and keep him on next year’s team, what do you do with him?

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      1. I sign said player for 10 million a year for 2 years (should get something 1/2 way decent). If Utley returns half way through the year to play in 70% of our remaining games, said player gets the remaining 40% of at bats, and spells out 3B and 1B as needed. This “super-utility” player would end up with 400 AB’s at second and 150 elsewhere on the diamond in that scenario. And 10 million for 550 atbats isn’t a bad deal at all.

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  2. So I owe one of the anons a response to a well argued, reasonable, but IMO still mostly wrong post he wrote about Rollins, but in the meantime (very busy today), I’ll just note, not relevant to his comment, but generally, that even before tonight Rollins was .323/.363/.604 for June. I think today puts his June OPS right about 1.000.

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    2. LarryM…wasn’t this anon….but you really cut it brief in the reply today..succinct and to the point…even my ADHD didn’t kick in reading your verse this time.

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    3. I love when larrym takes people’s opinions that differ from his and declares one right and one wrong as opposed to having different views on things. Larrym, I sure hope you are an engineer for a living, you probably do very well if you are. Hopefully you’re not teaching philosophy somewhere….

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      1. *lately.

        The fact that he’s winless is because of the offense and the bullpen blowing two leads for him.

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      2. he is cancer, first blaming vic for not seeing a flyball then crying about having to warm up. he makes 21 mil, he needs to quite blaming and start making pitches.

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    3. He wasn’t crying. It’s a legitimate complaint. There was NO WAY they were going to play that game on Friday.

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        1. What does that have to do with anything? Are you?

          It made absolutely no sense for him and Shields to warm up.

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    5. Didn’t Lee start off really bad last year also? I’m not suggesting that he’s going to end up with 19 wins again, but you need to give it a rest with Lee. Cliff Lee is the least of this team’s problems.

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    2. I read at philly.com bullpen by committee is a possibility, starting with Valdes. I’d go with Cloyd, limiting him to 75 pitches (as he’d be pitching on 3 days rest). A smaller part of me says throw J-Rod in there, knowing no matter how well he might do, this is just a one time fill-in; a little taste of what might be someday. In other words, not a high pressure MLB debut as such.

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      1. Yeah, Julio Rodriguez I say. I would hope they add him to 40 man roster in the offseason, and they have guys they could stick on the 60 day DL right now, so, it would require no releases or roster manipulations. For one game, I guess he would do well. And since this would likely be a one game thing to save some stress on the arms of the team’s established starters, there is no need for a gaseous recitation of some stat formulation which projected out over a long period of time would deviate from the idealized norms for standards made up by somebody on the Internet.

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        1. marfis…’there is no need for a gaseous recitation of some stat formulation which projected out over a long period of time would deviate from the idealized norms for standards made up by somebody on the Internet.’….in laymen’s terms?

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          1. In layman’s terms, marfis is a jerk. And hey, there is a lot of that going on around here, myself sometimes included. But marfis is unique in the sense of being a gratuitous jerk – simply assuming a contrary opinion and preemptively making a nasty comment. A jerk with no provocation.

            Ont he substance, I have no strong opinion one way or the other. But I imagine that any negative comments about the suggestion won’t be stat related, will have far more to do with worries, justified or not, that, if JRod isn’t ready, being called up prematurely could hurt his confidence and development.

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            2. That’s the big problem with you marfis; you just can’t, or won’t, read what others write. One of the biggest cases of confirmation bias I’ve ever seen. You can’t seem to understand:
              (1) I don’t even have an opinion on this, and stated so explicitly;
              (2) The argument against the move, to the extent that it exists at all, is not “complicated analysis.” It’s simply, right or wrong (and I have no idea which), that rushing a prospect to the majors before he is ready can be destructive to a player’s development. Not complicated, not even analysis so much as an observation. Whether or not it applies to JRod I have no idea.

              What’s really a joke, and why you are more repellent than the truly ignorant around here, is the transparent effort to preempt disagreement – anyone who dares to disagree with the great marfis must be engaging in unnecessary “complicated analysis.” It would be revolting if it wasn’t laughable.

              The other more particular irony about JRod is that, to the extent some people around here think his ceiling is low (and again, not I, I am agnostic on this), it’s based not on analysis of his statistics (complicated or otherwise), but on scouting reports. Again, I have no dog in this fight, but I just think it’s hilarious (given the false scouting versus statistical analysis dichotomy), is that the anti stats guys are, in this case, ignoring the scouting reports.

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  5. I doubt they go J-Rod. Cloyd is the one getting all the press out of the Philles PR staff right now so he would be my bet if they did decide to bypass Valdez.

    Philly.com loves to stir things up but as you mention they rarely report with any credibility. I see them letting 26 play out his contract and then moving on from there. I don’t see them moving Hamels either. It sounds more and more like RAJ is content to keep him thru the season, make him the qualifying off at the end of the season then see what the offers are for a long term deal.

    If they lose out they’ll take the compensation. I think other than a bullpen piece they are deathly afraid to mess with this team before they get the injured guys back.

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    2. Not a shot Cloyd makes his MLB debut on short rest. It’s either Kendrick on short rest or a bullpen game most likely.

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  6. Optimism reins… what a year Ruiz is having, who would have saw it coming that he has an 75/80 hit tool, great plate discipline and is on pace for 20 home runs.

    Ultey looked great defensively in LHV (and of course at the plate), Howard is about to begin his rehab assignment (though I’m less optimistic about him this year then I am Utley). No setbacks for Halladay… now if only our relief pitching (who bailed us out big time last night) can improve and Lee can fix his head we could be in for a good second half of the season.

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    1. Can someone please explain to me how the Phils let this happen, that in a season where we need to scratch and claw for every victory, we have a guy who is 10-1 in AA and AAA and is pitching great and he won’t make the start tonight? Nobody after Friday’s rainout could figure out to pitch Cloyd on Saturday with only 50-60 pitches so he could go tonight? Or use him another day for an inning or two which is equivalent to a side session? Absolutely ridiculous planning on the Phils part. Terrible

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      1. …or they think that going with a bullpen game gives them just as much of a chance of winning as Cloyd would. Just because everybody on this board thinks that Cloyd is the greatest thing since sliced bread doesn’t mean that the Phillies see it that way also.

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        1. Or maybe they don’t want to have to add Cloyd to the 40-man roster (and drop and existing player who would be exposed to another team’s claim) and then use up one of his options just so he can make one emergency start?

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        2. If I thought the Phillies thought he was the greatest thing since sliced bread, he’d already be in the big leagues by now. I suspect the Phillies view him as I do, which is a possible option over the next several years as a 5th starter / long reliever type guy who might go back and forth between AAA and the big leagues. It doesn’t change the fact that he would have been a reasonable option to start tonight’s game rather than using the bullpen for nine innings.

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        3. What the Phillies did here was asinine. Not only did their bullpen get shelled, but they’re now almost depleted. Would giving one of the kids a shot be any worse than what happened tonight?

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          1. Yeah, I have no clue why they didn’t start 1 of the…8(?)…people they could have called up to start this game.

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            1. The Phillies are 4 games behind .500 and are in last place. Cloyd seems to have the potential to be like Vance Worley and some of the other guys have even higher upsides. At this point, can it really hurt to bring up one of these nice pitching prospects to see what they’ve got in the majors? .

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  9. Another Cuban outfielder in Phillies sites:
    From MLB.Com:
    Yasel Puig, a 6-foot-3, 210-pound outfielder from Cuba, has been declared a free agent and could finalize a deal with a Major League club by Friday, according to industry sources.
    Puig, 20, recently established temporary residency in Mexico, the first step to becoming eligible for free agency, and he can now meet with clubs to discuss the parameters of a deal. He cannot enter into a final agreement with a team until he is unblocked by the U.S. Department of Treasury’s Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC). At least five teams have expressed serious interest in Puig’s services, according to an industry source. He must sign with a club, have the contract approved by Major League Baseball and pass a physical before July 2, or he will be subject to new CBA guidelines that will limit spending on international prospects to $2.9 million per team without penalty. The outfielder is expected to garner a multiyear Major League deal that rivals the nine-year, $30 million contract that fellow Cuban outfielder Jorge Soler received from the Cubs earlier this month and Yoenis Cespedes’ four-year, $36 million deal with the A’s in February. A top prospect in the island’s top league, the Cuban National Series (Serie Nacional), Puig hit .276 with five home runs during his first campaign with Cienfuegos in 2008-09 and had a breakout year the next season, hitting .330 with 17 home runs and 78 RBIs. He did not play for Cienfuegos during the 2011-12 seasons because he was disciplined for attempting to defect.

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  12. Question – The Pirates first baseman just made a catch and dove into the stands. As a fan, if you stay out of the field of play, what’s from preventing you from giving him a forearm shiver, maybe knocking the ball loose – you know, to protect yourself. I think you would be lauded by the home croud.

    The umpire in this case was checking to make sure he held on to the ball in the crowd. Replay (do they use it for foul balls?) would have shown that he caught it – but I’m not sure he made a football move before going into the crowd.

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