99 thoughts on “Box Score Recap, 30 April 2012”

  1. Nice to see May with 0 BB’s and 7 K’s.

    9 hits and 2 runs tells me he must have gotten BABIP’d

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      1. I doubt Trevor May gets traded as the Phillies need someone to replace Joe Blanton next year.

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    3. Agreed… really awesome to see his command/control improve so much. I’m really hoping we save the 7 million blanton price tag and just use may as our 5th starter next year. Please no injuries, please no trade.

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  2. Colvin’s line:
    Brody Colvin (W, 1-2) 6.0 4 1 1 5 7 0 3.76
    (IP, H, R, ER, BB, K, HR, ERA)

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    2. It’s heading in the right direction for Colvin, but its hard to call it a good start when he gave up 5 BB’s.

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  3. Good looking starts from May and Colvin. Especially encouraging is the fact that May got 8 out on grounders as opposed to 3 on fly balls, to go with his 7 strikeouts.

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    1. It will make it interesting to see if he can keep this up. It would make signing Hamels for feesable being that the 4th and 5th starters would be making league minimum in Worley and May.

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    2. The most incredible stats that Trevor May has had in his 30 innings pitched this year is his h/9 which is an amazingly low 6.3. In addition, Trevor has only given up 1 extra-base hit all year (1 double, 0 triples and 0 home runs in the 5 games (30 innings) he has pitched this year.

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      1. Was at the game and will be typing up a report to post but yes he is very overmatched. I saw him before the game warming up and until he turned around I thought he was the bat boy. Absolutely tiny body and looks 12. Then when he came up to bat he selected Miley Cyrus party in the USA for his music so that confirmed it. He was taking late hacks, poor discipline, looked bad at ss, and grounded into a dp and his speed out of the box and down the line was only slightly above avg at best.

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        1. *In Mortal Kombat announcer voice*

          Finish him!

          But seriously, the thoughts on his play is very much welcome and appreciated, but let’s try to leave speculation about his personality out of it (his intro music and that speculation, specifically).

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          1. Intro music was a joke. His body composition I thought was worthwhile info, although certainly not a surprise or unusual at his age.

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          2. No offense, but relax…I found that pretty damn funny. Like really, Miley Cyrus… that’s down right hilarious.

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            1. That’s fine. Jokes sometimes don’t read well on the internet and I’ve recently been surrounded by people who have nothing but spiteful things to say, so that was my first reading of that. And I’m not particularly worked up about it, just didn’t want to see a player get torn apart for something trivial.

              But yeah, body composition definitely is good to know, but not something to be too worried about just yet. Hopefully he finds his swing soon.

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      2. This time in LKW is good development and experinece time for him….come June he will be in Williamsport…just as Altherr and Franco last year.

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      3. Thats a catchy song and im 38…hes 18…whats he supposed to come out to kasmir like utley

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        1. I’m 36 and since I’m on the internet not revealing my real identity I can also admit its a catchy song. It just struck me as funny cuz I’m used to going to big league games and that would be more like a prank pulled on a rookie or something. At least it wasn’t Bieber. It was also just very different than the walkup music for all the others.

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          1. I honestly didn’t even know MiLB players had walk-up music until now, so that’s an interesting tidbit I gained.

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          2. Lighten up Dan and at least be objective… Lakewood is 9 wins – 14 losses and is already 6.5 games back. 4 of the 5 bottom hitters for Lakewood (all hitting under .200) were reasonably high draft picks last year. With these signings and the signing bonuses comes the expectation to perform reasonably well, even early on. Moore (9th Round – currently hitting .173), Greene (11th Round – currently hitting .164), Hillman (18th Round – currently hitting .167) & Hill (19th Round – currently hitting .154). Moore is 21 years old and Hillman & Hill are 23. These three guys are not kids, unlike Greene who is only 19, but held out for the big money and reportedly signed for $375K. The organization should have expectations for these players. On top of the weak offensive production their defense has sub par too. Greene already has 7 errors at Shortstop (3 in last nights game alone). This is not speculation, but just hard numbers that tell the story. On the other hand, with the loss of Duffy to Clearwater, Stumpo seems to be a productive addition to the Lakewood offense.

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            2. How do you figure Tyler Greene “held out for the big money”? He signed by the end of July and got some GCL playing time last year. Also, everybody here expected he wanted over a half a million to sign- read the 2011 draft thread. The consensus reaction when Greene signed for $375k was that the Phillies did their homework and signed a good talent everybody thought wanted more.

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            3. The organization paid well over three times the slot money for him and waited until the 11th round to take him. Let’s face it, that is a handsome sum and comes with some expectations. In his interview with phoulbalz.com on 4/18 he said his strength is his defense and so far that has not shown through. The kid is young and based on what they paid him as a signing bonus he will be given plenty of time to develop and I hope he does. All I’m saying is that I agree with “Nik” and “Bak425” that he should be in EST working on his defense and working on making more consistent contact. He appears to be overmatched in Lakewood and early on both his offense and defense have been rather underwhelming. The stat lines tell the story. He may need time to mature, but like several others, he doesn’t seem ready to be in Lakewood and that may not be good for his confidence or his development.

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            4. Oh, I don’t mean to argue that Greene’s doing well at Lakewood. For comparison’s sake, his OPS at Lakewood is similar to what Freddy Galvis put up at the same age in Clearwater-except Greene strikes out twice as much. There’s no defending that. I just object to the label “held out for the big money” when he signed more quickly than most of his draft class, got playing time, and took less money than expected.

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            5. Disagree to some extent…Phillies did it this way with Franco and Altherr last year and it has not hurt their development or confidence so far…the exposure now at LKW, can be a good long run learning benefit.

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            6. Incorrect. Franco didn’t start the season at Lakewood. He was held back in EXT, then dominated NYPenn, and was promoted to the SAL. He stayed for 2 weeks, then went back.

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  5. I would just like to mention Jordan Whatcott who threw his 16th inning tonight of Zero ERA ball between Clearwater and Reading. He doesn’t get mentioned much, and is not a top prospect and all that “important” stuff. But here’s a guy quietly going about his business of saving games, striking guys out and not allowing hits or runs. Way to go, Jordan.

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    1. Looks like he was recently moved up to Reading. He had astronomical numbers at Clearwater, with a WHIP under 0.5! However, he is almost 27 years old, so it is hard to know what his numbers mean at A and even AA.

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  6. Cameron Rupp has quietly had a solid start to the year. 7 BB to 10 Ks on the year. Offensively solid all around. Hopefully he’s making some progress behind the plate.

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  7. Supposedly defense was a strong point when Rupp was drafted. If so, then defensive progress can be expected; his offense is hopefully coming along which the FO thought could happen. For now, he seems to be their second best catcher prospect.

    That is indicative of a shortage of better catcher prospects in the system (one or two of those drafted in ’11 need some time to show their wares) and would hope that that position will draw a lot of their attention in the upcoming draft June ’12.

    Also: Please give your attention to 3b-man Cody Asche at high A Clwtr FSL. Check out his season so far and then refer to the ’11 pre-draft assessment set forth describing him that PP has set out near the masthead on THIS site.

    Welcome 3b…in ’13?

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        1. Another interesting not in the boxscore moment from Lakewood last night – Franco had a 3-0 count and the lefty throwing for Greenville delivers a slightly above belt high 90 mph fastball that Franco just unleashes on and hits it well out but well foul down the LF line. The next pitch was about 2 feet outside and he walked to first. Pitcher wanted nothing to do with him on that next pitch. Don’t want to draw too many conclusions after watching 3 ab’s per guy, but he certainly seems to be the best hitting prospect on that roster.

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    1. Gillies is going to be a major league player and probably a pretty darned good one. He is fast, fields very well, can drive the ball and fights off bad pitches. In a perfect world, he gets to the big league team late this year or early next year and works his way into the lineup. He may not have quite the upside of a Shane Victorino, but I don’t think he’s far off that mark.

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      1. Maybe this is a product of me growing up in the steroid generation (I’m 30), but I’ve never been particularly enamored with players with tools like him. I tend to value the hit tool and power tool as the two most important by a very large margin. In Gillies case, I feel like he’s the following:

        Base running Speed = Plus
        Throwing Ability = Above Average
        Fielding Ability = Above Average
        Batting Average = Average
        Power = Average

        I would rather see this:

        Base running Speed = Average
        Throwing Ability = Average
        Fielding Ability = Above Average
        Batting Average = Above Average
        Power = Plus

        Or

        Base running Speed = Average
        Throwing Ability = Above Average
        Fielding Ability = Average
        Batting Average = Plus
        Power = Above Average

        I kind of follow the philosophy that his base running speed tool is nearly worthless because I don’t really value steals that highly. Which means his only “plus” tool, isn’t that important to me.

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        1. Base running is not just stolen bases. One thing that recent base running analysis has demonstrated is that early Sabremetric dismissal of the importance of base running was partly mistaken. Also, speed = more IF hits, another area that modern analysis has shown is more significant than a lot of people realized. Finally, while I am, as I have made clear, no convert to the “small ball” approach – far from it – it’s true that in the current lower run scoring environment, this type of player has a little more relative value than would have been the case 10 or even 5 years ago. Finally of course speed has implications for fielding as well.

          Michael Bourn is the prototype of the kind of player we are talking about. Obviously Gilles has a long way to go be equal Bourn, but I think his upside is actually maybe a little higher (more power potential; a little less speed). And Bourn is a heck of a player.

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          2. As a side note, while of course the 2008 title is by itself justification for the Lidge trade, on a pure “value” basis, that has ended up being a pretty lopsided trade in Houston’s favor.

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          3. I understand that speed affects more then just baserunning ability. But the thing is, speed in that respect would be included in batting average. For example, hitting .300 with or without speed is still .300. Same goes for fielding ability. Say you rate his fielding ability at 55, that would be inclusive of speed. Speed as an attribute is very important because it affects 3 different “tools”. I wasn’t knocking that. That said, as to Bourn, yes his WAR has averaged like 4.5 per year over the last 3 years, with absolutely no power and an average BA. The thing that makes him so valuable is the fact that we’re talking about 50-60 SB’s a year. Bourn is the only player in the whole league to put up those kinds of numbers over the last 3 years. (points to the rarity of that kind of skill). Say you drop those SB #’s in half for a realistic approximation of Gillies skill, He would have to hit for that much higher of an average and with that much more power to generate a WAR in the 4’s. The other side of having speed is that it is fleeting, players typically decline in speed long before they decline in power. Take Vic or Rollins as examples, both in their 20’s would have been described as 30+ SB players (as is Gillies), these days we’re lucky to get 15 out of them. If all of your value is derived from your speed, your career length is destined to be limited by that same skill which makes you a less valuable prospect overall. (Given rollins and vic both had good power in their primes)

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            1. Rollins stole 30 bases last year. Shane stole 34 just two years ago and is on pace for almost 40 this year. I don’t know if it’s true or not but I’d like to see something that backs up the claim that players lose speed before power.

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        2. Steals is only one way to look at speed, though. It also contributes to base running, defense, and hits (in that he can leg out some infield hits, or turn singles into doubles). I can see why you think that way, and I’m sure that power and speed should not be weighed equally, but I think speed is more valuable than you might think.

          Personally, I like speed. I also like power. But pitching is king to me, and always will be, so maybe arm strength is what I should pay attention to most.

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        3. Only 10 center fielders had 15+ home runs last season. I think the game has shifted, and it’s going to be awfully difficult to find a center fielder who hits for plus power. If Gillies hit for Plus/Above Average batting and average power, I’d be happy. Right now Gillies’ Isolated Power is .157, a very strong number. Gillies actually leads the team in extra base hits.

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          1. Excellent point allen about the lack of power from the centerfield position last year. Given that, I think it’s fair to say a player who averaged 15-20 HR’s during their peak years would be considered to have above average power at centerfield, while plus power would be Curtis Granderson, who hit 41 last year, but averaged in the lower 30’s per 650 PA’s during the last 3 years. What do you think Gillies profiles to do in his prime assuming everything works out? I was thinking 10, which is below average (say there are 30 starting CF’s in MLB, 15 is half).

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            1. Sorry, I misread your post, I thought it was 15, had 15 or more HR’s, So then 10 HR’s would probably be just below the average per 650 Plate attempts.

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            2. 10 players, 15+ HRs. Sorry if that caused confusion. To look out at it another way, center fielders in MLB last year hit 487 home runs in total. Dividing that by plate appearances, that works out to just under 15 per 650 plate appearances.

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            4. Hard to say. Gillies through 2010 and this year is on about a 10 HR a year pace. Definitely below average. If I had to make an honest assessment, Gillies for me projects as a reserve outfielder. I’ve said power isn’t as important, but I also don’t see Gillies as a hitter for average yet either.

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      2. Given the past couple of seasons, I’ll take what Gillies is doing so far and expect him to improve over the season – maybe a AAA callup this year is not realistic, but possible.

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        1. One thing to remember about Gillies if you’ve never seen him is that he’s not a small leadof type guy. He’s probably about 6’1″ and has serious muscles and hits the ball out at will during batting practice. His power will most definitely come as he continues to play and learns when to turn on an inside pitch. He has missed so much time, he just needs to stay healthy and play. A callup to AAA later in the year is a possibility and probably likely if he continmues to improve. the team really neds to know what they have in him before they resign Victorino.

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    2. Having Gillies and James in the OF can’t be hurting the Reading pitchers’ stats, either.

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      1. And Castro also, all three can go get it. So can Altherr, Hudson, and Eldemire by the way.

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    1. At least Tug didn’t go 0-fer April… Trevor May is the man!!! Very impressed with Asche- amazing that they skipped him a level after a poor debut at WP. Nice to see he is rewarding the club for their faith.

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  10. Best line of the night goes to Aaron Altherr. 2 – 3 with a double and a SB but what makes it spectacular is he did it against 2 pitchers who were laying down the law. They struck out everybody in the lineup multiple times and only gave up 3 hits. Everybody was shutdown except Altherr (Hudson had the other hit). Altherr has hit in 9 of his last 10 with a .341 average over those 10. He’s hitting righties and lefties equally well. His trip slash is .341/.362/.442. I’d like to see more BBs with only 4 in 22 games but if the ball is over the plate a hits as good as a walk. He’s known to get hot and then hit the icebox so we’ll see how the year progresses.

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    1. This looks like one of our toolsy guys figuring it out. Fingers crossed but Altherr has a very high ceiling…

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  11. The regression monster has officially found and feasted on Jiwan James. Let’s hope for an adjustment. His strike out rate’s been too high all season.

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    1. David Murphy jinxed him. I don’t believe he’s had a hit since the write up on Friday.

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  12. Tyler Greene continues to look like a horrible choice for our 11th best prospect. They should have put him in extended spring training. Regardless of the “semi-small” sample size in respect to his (crappy) numbers, his scouting reports thus far aren’t giving me any confidence either. If he’s still over matched when they demote him for poor play, he’ll drop out of the top 30 for me.

    As poorly as Tyler has done, May has been equally as impressive. The kid could very well be a september call-up at this point.

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    1. There should be NO reason to call up May this year. He should be given all of 2012 in AA and all of 2013 in AAA, What’s the point of rushing him?

      I think it’s way too early to knock Tyler Greene. Way too early. Look at Altherr. He’s putting together a nice start but he was atrocious at first. Development takes time.

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        1. This is exactly right, the Phillies need a starter next year, an honestly, given the low expectations associated with being the 5th pitcher in this rotation, I really don’t think it’s terribly inappropriate to push may to AAA in August, call him up and september, and give him a shot in spring training.

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          1. I think it’s more likely we’ll see him as a may/june callup in 2013 so they can delay his free agency a year. They could give him a spot start this year for kicks but I think they’ll be watching his service time closely.

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            1. I don’t know if he’s such a stud prospect that that will necessarily come into play. I feel like those considerations apply much more to guys like Harper/Strasburg/Trout. Can’t-miss superstar types. May is a great pitcher and all, but he’s not yet someone they’re worried about having to give a $100m plus contract to in 6 years.

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        2. Additionally, he’s going to be 23 in september, a 23 yr old getting a september call up who’s in his 4th full year in the minors isn’t a stretch.

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    2. Relax….he of 19-years old, keeping my fingers crossed, but hoping he will do better at Wiliamsport,

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      1. I’m not saying he’s worthless, just that he has no business being placed where he was placed, and further, has no business being our 11th best prospect. At this point in time PP’s #24 ranking seems to fit the bill, and if he flops at williamsport, then as i said, this time next year, he’ll be outside the top 30.

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  13. The one apparently unnoticed line of the day was for Kenny Giles. He gave up two runs in the first inning and then settled down and struck out 5 in 4 innings. Giles has a big arm and if he can develop as a starter his value as a prospect could skyrocket. Not many guys throw in the upper 90s as you all know.

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    1. Interesting that he only pitches out of the stretch at this point, guessing they are working on his mechanics. He hit 97 with a pitch in the first inning, but was consistently 92-95 all night, until the 5th when he hit 90-91 a few times as he tired.

      The two runs he gave up in the first were due to a misplayed line drive by Gauntlett in RF. He played a ball hit right at him into a double putting runners at second and third with 1 out. Giles then struck out their cleanup hitter with some nasty stuff, particularly what looked like a hard breaking curveball at 79 mph. He really looked like a guy that knew how to get a K when he needed one. The next hitter he got ahead 0-2 and threw a 97 mph fastball up but the hitter laid off it. Next pitch he went back to the curveball and hung it and the batter hit a humpback liner just past the 2B for a 2 run single. That’s all he gave up in 4+ innings as far as runs go.

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  15. greene is a raw kid, not a top rated player like trout or harper, yes he is overmatched but he is so young and in a league over his head, at this stage of his development.give the kid a chance to adjust to the new league. he is seeing most likely the best pitching he ever has seen. and if he is to be a player he must learn to adust,

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    1. Couldn’t agree more, which is why he should be in extended spring training and be ranked in the mid-20’s as a prospect in this system.

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      1. Stop talking about his organizational ranking nerd. What does that matter?

        Argue that he’s overmatched, argue that he was improperly placed in Lakewood, argue that he’d be better served in XST.

        But stop with the prospe t ranking stuff. It doesn’t matter, no one cares, and it makes you sound dumb (dumber than you already make yourself sound with your other comments)

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        2. TheAnswer333

          I’m pretty sure he argued all those points (being overmatched, improperly placed, and in XST). And while I normally wouldn’t get involved in the personal attack game, I’m going to make an exception here in light of your post.

          Disagree with posters all you want, but when you take it to a personal level it only makes you seem like a little turd pretending to be something on the internet that you’re incapable of measuring up to in real life.

          Grow a brain, and if you can’t, find someone who has one, and get their approval before posting.

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    2. It will be interesting to see if the Phils decide to swap Greene and Quinn if Greene continues to struggle. Its certainly something they’ve discussed….

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      1. What makes you say that’s been discussed? (Not doubting, just found it really interesting)

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        1. You need to give the front office a bit more credit. Greene is struggling with his hitting and his fielding while Quinn is a 2nd round pick who, by all accounts, is doing very well in Florida. I’m very confident a switch has been discussed. Think about it, if they simply send Greene down to WPort, the two players will have to split time. I think they’d like to see if Quinn can handle it before they just have them split time.

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      2. Quinn will start in the GCL. Greene will drop to Wmsprt when short-season starts. I have no idea who will man SS in Lakewood but it will probably come from outside the organization. Schoenberger was released or he would have made a good replacement . Greene is over matched and that shouldn’t surprise anyone. The Phils love to push a few guys each year. It’s Greene’s year. He’ll be back to Lakewood next year, older and wiser.

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        1. Why are you sure that Quinn will start in the GCL? Has that been reported somewhere?
          Also: If Greene gets demoted, obviously Gustavo Gonzalez will be the Lakewood SS. He has already started getting more starts.

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        2. You could be right but I don’t think so. They also have a latin kid whose name escapes me but who is a very good looking SS who will likely play at GCL.

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    1. The first out was recorded as a line drive to the pitcher and then Biddle left with a hand injury. That is from the box score I don’t know more.

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