2012 Reader Top 30, #25

2012 Reader Top 30

Austin Hyatt pushes ahead of Perci Garner for the #24 spot. As a semi-spoiler for my top 30 list (which will come in about 2 weeks), I will have Austin Hyatt in my Top 15. J.C. Ramirez received the most write-in support so he will enter the voting for #25. As a reminder on eligibility for the list, to be eligible the player must have fewer than 130 AB or 50 innings pitched. So far we have

01. Trevor May, RHP
02. Jesse Biddle, LHP
03. Sebastian Valle, C
04. Brody Colvin, RHP
05. Freddy Galvis, SS
06. Phillippe Aumont, RHP
07. Jon Pettibone, RHP
08. Justin De Fratus, RHP
09. Maikel Franco, 3B
10. Julio Rodriguez, RHP
11. Tyler Greene, SS
12. Larry Greene Jr, OF
13. Jiwan James, OF
14. Tyson Gillies, OF
15. Lisalberto Bonilla, RHP
16. Roman Quinn, SS/OF
17. Cesar Hernandez, 2B
18. Austin Wright, LHP
19. Brian Pointer, OF
20. Mitchell Walding, SS
21. Carlos Tocci, OF
22. Aaron Altherr, OF
23. Cameron Rupp, C
24. Austin Hyatt, RHP
25.

Check below for #25

60 thoughts on “2012 Reader Top 30, #25”

      1. If I was making the case for Hyatt as top 15, and I don’t even have him in my top 25, I’d start with his successes. He’s been very successful throughout his career. He has the ability to strike guys out (171 in 154 innings in Reading). He’s mature but not long in the tooth (26 in May).. He’ll get a shot at AAA and he’s been invited to training camp with the big boys. He’s been mentioned as a possible 7th starter so if Blanton is done or traded and another starter goes down for a while, we might see him in Philly… this year. He also could be used as a long man. His proximity is very high and his potential still looks good.

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  4. Garner – seems like this could be a landslide. Though reports about Manzanillo are really intriguing. If he’s really mid-90s from the left side, and it seems like he profiles as a starter, he’s got probably the highest ceiling of anyone on the list right now. But those walk #s are outrageous, young for the league or not. Would like to hear someone from the FO give an appraisal of him and maybe see if there’s a good reason for that. Like they changed his delivery four times or something. Cause otherwise, thems a lotta walks, (as they say).

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  5. JC Ramirez. Scouting reports give similar description of stuff that Garner has. Same age as Garner, but has 200 innings in AA, whereas Garner has only a few innings in Shortseason ball.
    I like Perci Garner too, but will vote JC Ramirez ahead of him because he is pitching 3 levels above him at the same age.

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    1. But JC’s 200 innings in AA should lead to a conclusion that he doesn’t have the stuff to be a starting pitcher, regardless of age. His K numbers have never been anything to write home about, and they have bottomed out in AA. “pitch to contact” has become almost a meme for pitchers to use who don’t have an out pitch.

      Not that Garner doesn’t have his own major blemishes (health?) but JC is not on my top 30.

      I see a lot of low ceiling players on the list, which I guess is not surprising. I would vote either KDugan or LCollier here if they were available. I guess consider this a write in for Collier.

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      1. Agreed on Ramirez.

        I’m pretty sure scouts have put a high ceiling on Garner because of his velocity and already having a good second pitch. I also have to assume Manzanillo’s ceiling is very high (though very far away). Other dudes with supposedly high but almost unevaluatable ceilings are Giles and Eldemire.

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        1. fair point, though I don’t know if Lou ever got enough ABs to lose his rookie status, so in the strictest sense…

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    2. That’s funny, I’ll vote Garner ahead of JC because, while JC has pitched 3 levels higher, JC has pitched poorly while Garner hasn’t yet really pitched that much.

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  6. Harold Garcia win a landslide vote by now. He’s similar to Gillies in that he’s a 40-man roster position player who is a proven high average hitter in at least high A minor leagues with good speed, base stealing, and defense. The downside for both is that they had deal with injuries in 2010 and 2011 now have to prove they are 100% healthy. We can dream about guys like Garner, Manzanillo, James, Pointer, Hernandez, Altherr, and all of the recent high draft picks learning how to hit or pitch some day, but Garcia and Gillies have already shown they are darn good and can at least be bench players for a MLB team, with the potential to be regulars at important defensive positions.

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    1. Harold is one of the guys I’m really rooting for this year. Hopefully, he comes back healthy and starts hitting once again. He’ll likely start at Reading with Cesar at CWater and they both might move up mid year after they’ve shown something. They already have Fransden, Orr, and Luna to split 2B and 3B at LHV.

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    2. The reason that I won’t vote for Garcia just yet (still voting for Garner) is that he’s never put the numbers up that Gillies did (although I admit Gillies was in a nice offensive league) and he is also going to be 25 this year, two years older than Gillies. Two years is not insignificant when talking about a player who has never had an at bat above AA. I’m certainly rooting for him though, as I do all Phillies.

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      1. I agree about the importance of the age difference, but I disagree that Garcia has not put up as good numbers as Gillies. Garcia put up outstanding numbers Clearwater, establishing a league record hitting streak in the process. He’s a better base stealer than Gillies. Their career minor league stats are similar, especially when you factor in ballpark effects. I think Garcia had a better high A season than Gillies, and that was Gillies best season.

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    3. Agree. He is a .300 hitter and a sound fielder. He may be on the Phillies’ bench this or next year.

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    1. That was a pretty good interview. I completely agree with the take on Brown. I really hope we keep Brown and let him play for crying out loud.

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    2. Listened to the podcast and He was not so much down on Hyatt and Valle. He was actually echoing many of the same concerns expressed here about both. He basically called them Worley and a higher BA lower OBP Chooch. The interesting thing he did bring up was the trade last year for pence. He basically liked the deal for the Phils and called all 3 prospects under performing good scouting reports.

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  8. I just caught that Kelly Dugan has dropped off the list so I went in and looked at his numbers. Let’s not forget he is still just 21 y/o in 478 PA’s his OBP is .353 OPS .740 Avg .284

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    1. He was drafted in 2009. It’s 2012 and he hasn’t played an inning of full-season ball. Those numbers are pedestrian for a player in his 3rd season of short season ball.

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        1. Kelly Dugan
          2009: 167 PA’s
          2010: 113 PA’s
          2011: 198 PA’s

          He absolutely has played 3 seasons in Shortseason ball. If he had those numbers in his 2nd year OR was not a corner OF/1b, they would mean something. He’ll be in his 4th season this year, fighting for playing time in low A, with Altherr, Pointer and Alverez.

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          1. Don’t forget we’re talking about #25. You honestly believe at age 21 Dugan’s upside is that far below a 23 year old JC’s upside?

            I’m also trying to figure out the Garner Hype…he’s 23, he’s only pitched 34 innings and his WHIP was 1.38+. Sure his k/9 isn’t bad but what is he a starter or RP?

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  9. Rather than vote for Leandro Castro until the cows come home I threw my support behind Garner. He’s another guy who will shoot up the list with a good year and he’s very capable of that.

    My reasoning for Castro remains tied to the power he showed at Clearwater, which is not a power hitter’s environment. I think he’ll either boom or bust at Reading by putting up big power numbers or being way overmatched by AA pitching. This is a key year for him.

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    1. Right there with you on Castro. After i applied the discount i gave to Valle when it came to his power numbers(which it seems we all are willing to do for clearwater) i looked at Castro’s output and was rather impressed with the power numbers produced after being injured. I think he fits in the 20s due to the possible limitation of the power as he is a smaller fellow. But again the Phils have another player who swings alot.

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    2. Totally agree with you on Castro…..last year at this time he was held in a higher status and his season had its health issues that affected him. I think he rebounds well this season barring anymore injuries.

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      1. Yeah. It’s funny because I was never one of his supporters before this year. Now it’s like everybody else forgot about him. I guess it’s because he didn’t play much in the second half.

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      1. No one is writing Collier in, and that’s how I’m determining who goes on to the next ballot. I assume the 50 game suspension has put him off of most people’s radar. At least the people actively voting in these polls.

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        1. well, the 50 game suspension along with the a fair amount of underwhelming performance.

          that being said, I see at least two votes for him here (including mine!), so he should get some consideration as the next add… not that it really matters at this point.

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    2. Why should I vote for Collier? He has not done much in his limited time on the field. He is still young and I guess he still has some tools, but he needs to show something on the field soon.

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      1. That is my feeling.
        Here is an athletic kid drafted high due to his athletic skills.

        However, they still have yet to transfer well to baseball and he will be missing another chunk of time next year.

        I have strong doubts he will ever make it to AAA in our org.

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  12. After Garner, I’m going to vote H. Garcia.
    I’m still very worried about his injury, prior to that he was much higher up the chart.
    So there is hope for him, but he needs to recover soon.

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    1. “Our system is the weakest its been in half a decade. Collier? Garner? Seriously guys?”

      Should we just stop at 24 because you don’t like the state of the farm?

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    2. I agree with you at the top levels. However I think that the depth is far better than it was five-plus years ago. Remember Collier and Garner were both early-round picks. It’s a positive thing to have so much depth that recent early round picks are this low.

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      1. System depth is over-rated here. High end potential is what matters. I don’t think the system is as terrible as NEPP implied, but there is no high end talent above short season at the moment, and that matters.
        This so called depth doesnt mean much. Every system in baseball is loaded with Schwimers, Saverys, Diekmans, Overbecks and Derrick Mitchells. Those guys don’t have great value. It is not hard or expensive to load the end of your MLB bench with those types without getting them from your own system. They also bring nothing in trade value.

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        1. Depth kind of matters. If you have high potential players who are close, depth isn’t important. But when they are mostly raw high ceiling players, you definitely want depth to go along with it. Because a lot of those players are going to flame out.

          And I wouldn’t discount the trade value of a Savery. Every so often a team out and overpays for a bench piece because they HAVE to have him. As Bill Veeck said, the most valuable card in the deck is the one you need to fill an inside straight.

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          1. The depth in the Phillies system matters only in the fact that their depth is in the large number of high skill/high risk prospects they have a A-ball and below. Since most of them won’t pan out, the more “draws” they get to fill that inside straight the better.

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    5. I am not sure if NEPP ment it this way but he is mostly correct in his statement, just might have gotten there the wrong way. After 5 years of pushing to win with the big club and being successful. They have been drafting later and moving top prospects for All Star Caliber ML talent. As such if our top 25 was just as strong we would have to be one of the greatest drafting and developing teams ever. We have three times traded multiple top 10 prospects for difference making players. I actually think this list lends towards optimism about our organization and their ability to have mostly dealt propects that have yet to pan out at the ML level, other than Bourne and Gio.

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    6. I’m not sure why Garner should be considered a joke as the 25th best prospect in a farm system. He’s a guy with mid-rotation upside.

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    7. The weakness of our farm system isn’t the lack of prospects. It’s that we don’t have a single impact player who seems a good bet to contribute for the next 18 months. They’re either high upside players who are risky and/or far away, or bench/relief players. But we have at least 40 players who are at least intriguing and bear further watching.

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      1. And to add to that, we don’t have a single prospect who appears to be a 4+ WAR player (besides Brown). There are a lot of guys who should contribute 1-3 WAR at some point in their career, but few who look likely to exceed that.

        Which gets back to all that A-ball depth. Those guys very well could develop into those all-star talents that the system needs. But we’re talking 3-4 years down the road and it’s very possible that none of them will reach that ceiling.

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      2. Agreed – unless Domonic Brown turns things around or one of the starting pitching prospects comes on really strong (a possibility, but not probable)

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    8. I don’t think there’s ever been a franchise with the best team in baseball AND the best farm system in baseball. Usually its one or the other.

      My top 20-25 looks nothing like this beyond #1. Considering the trades we’ve made and the fact that Domonic isn’t eligible anymore… it’s not THAT bad… It’s definitely not a top 15 farm though.

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      1. Yeah teams like Kansas City historically have strong minor league systems and they haven’t had a winning team in awhile. I would rather get the top talent like Halladay, Lee, Oswalt, Blanton, Pence, etc like we have rather then holding on to the prospects. The only one I wished they kept was D’Arnaud. Gose would be the next name especially with Victorino a FA next yr.

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  15. That’s an ugly list to choose from. Manzanillo and Garner? I’ll pass.

    I like me some Clayppol, Buchanan, Dugan in this range. Write-in vote for Claypool here

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    1. What is it about Claypool that makes him a better prospect than Manzanillo or Garner? Never read that he has plus major league pitches like those two pitchers.

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    2. FWIW….Morandini was talking up Garner in an interview with Phoul Ballz. Said he has a big league arm with a nasty breaking ball.

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  16. Yeah, I think Garner is actually a decent prospect, granted seems far away from getting a shot in the bigs. He was a recent 2nd round pick. Nothing odd about him getting votes. He should be, and b/c the system is generally lacking, I might put Perci up a few spots.

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  17. I think Kyrell Hudson should definately get a look between 26-30. I would also put H.Garcia up there JC Ramirez, Manzanillo, and Castro. Buchanan, Schwimer, Savery, Martinez, and Cloyd round out the top 35. Tough year to judge as there are a lot of “what ifs” and “unknowns”.

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  18. Kyrell has been working his game this off season. A big help was having Mickey as his coach last year and will most likely move with him to Lakewood this year. In the game of power it’s refreshing to know the kid is honing his on base skills with bunting. In case you missed it, he did steal home in the last game of the season last year…Kyrell is working on picking up the off speed pitches and outer plate and driving to opposite field. His overall numbers saw significant increases where they should and decreases where needed.

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