2012 Reader Top 30, #24

Cameron Rupp edged out Austin Hyatt for #23, and that leaves just 7 spots remaining on this year’s top 30. Harold Martinez and Ervis Manazanillo will enter the voting in this round and Cody Asche drops off the list. As a reminder on eligibility for the list, to be eligible the player must have fewer than 130 AB or 50 innings pitched. So far we have

01. Trevor May, RHP
02. Jesse Biddle, LHP
03. Sebastian Valle, C
04. Brody Colvin, RHP
05. Freddy Galvis, SS
06. Phillippe Aumont, RHP
07. Jon Pettibone, RHP
08. Justin De Fratus, RHP
09. Maikel Franco, 3B
10. Julio Rodriguez, RHP
11. Tyler Greene, SS
12. Larry Greene Jr, OF
13. Jiwan James, OF
14. Tyson Gillies, OF
15. Lisalberto Bonilla, RHP
16. Roman Quinn, SS/OF
17. Cesar Hernandez, 2B
18. Austin Wright, LHP
19. Brian Pointer, OF
20. Mitchell Walding, SS
21. Carlos Tocci, OF
22. Aaron Altherr, OF
23. Cameron Rupp, C

Check below for #24

64 thoughts on “2012 Reader Top 30, #24

    1. I am with you on this. Ervis ‘Makes Them Nervous’ Manzanillo gets very good scouting reports from those who have observed him pitching last year.

      1. Garner gets good scouting reports too and had better results last year. I recognize that the sample size was small and that Manzanillo was at a tougher level, but Ervis’s walk rate was atrocious. I prefer Garner.

        This Q&A with BA is revealing. Thanks to the BlueClaws Blog for doing it. Matt Forman from BA does a quick scouting report for both Manzanillo and Garner, so you can compare them yourself. Very interesting that he mentions LGJ, Quinn, and Walding as potentials for LKW, but not TG. It seems we may have overrated TG. We shall see, I guess.


        1. I’m not sure that starting 2012 at a lower level necessarily means we overrated TG. We’re talking about levels so far removed from the majors that tools are more important.

          Now, have we overrated his tools? Probably.

          1. Brad.. Seems you have showed your intelligence. Marti said after the Draft that T Greene had the most tools in the country.
            Did you vote for Ron Paul because the TV told you to?

            1. Good Point. If I remember correctly BA had Hewitt as a Top 5 Prospect and starting in Lakewood.
              They are like the weatherman I have in NJ.

        2. I would guess none of those 3 guys will see Lakewood in 2012 without first playing in Williamsport – it’s not the Phils organizational M.O. Possible, I suppose, and the guy being interviewed is the professional…we’ll see.

          I wouldn’t be surprised if TGreene starts at Lakewood in April instead of XST in hopes he can learn there and stick it out for the year so Quinn can play SS in Williamsport. It’s an interesting problem to have in the low levels…too much middle infield talent. Will be interesting to see how they handle it if both guys stay healthy and progress.

        3. There’s no way Walding will play at Lakewood. Assuming Walding gets moved to 3B, Franco will be there at LWood with Harold Martinez probably getting moved up to CWater due to his age and to allow both to playing time. Walding will play at WSport most likely. I believe that one of either Quinn or T Greene will be at WSport and one will be at LWood or stay in the GCL.

        4. There are No Boston Fans foir Philly. You have made many comments that seem as Shady as your weather. BA has stood firm to their original post draft comments because they have to.

          1. Against my better judgment, I am going to reply to your comment.

            Are you from Philadelphia? I am, as I grew up there. Now I live in Boston. By the way, the guy who runs this site lives in the Boston area.

            BA clearly thought highly of TG coming into the draft as they rated him #83 in the country. They must have *some* reason to think that now some other draftees will be placed higher than TG this Spring. Since they talk to scouts and people in the Phils’ front office, I think they would have some information behind the comments they made.

            Personally I would like to see TG start at Lakewood. That would be great. But no matter what any of us think should happen, what actually happens will be determined by the Phils in Spring Training.

            I want all of the Phillies draftees to do well and hope they do so. I hope you can adopt a more positive attitude from now on.

  1. NIce…I can finally stop voting for Rupp. I went with Hyatt here. A guy ready to compete for a spot in a big league rotation next year has value. Maybe not to the Phils, but possibly as a filler in a trade. Someone the other day did the “would you trade player A for player B”. I can’t imagine trading Hyatt for anyone left on the list straight up. Garner’s close, and I still like Lino Martinez and Harold Martinez. After that, I’d say it’s not really close.

  2. Hyatt. I think he’ll have some MLB innings under his belt by the end of the season, with a kyle Kendrick role in front of him (except with more Ks, which means he will probably be better than KK) for a decent little career.

    A bird in the hand is better than two in the bush, and I truly believe he’ll be the surprise of this list, which is strange since he is the kind of prospect who doesn’t have much in the way of surprise left.

  3. I voted for Garner, but he, Hyatt, Manzanillo, Martinez, Diekman and Schwimer would all be appropriate picks at this point, with Overbeck, Castro, Rizzotti, Savery and Cloyd in the next group.

  4. Hyatt. Every couple years we get a Kendrick/Happ/Worley (ok maybe Worley is a cut above) guy who is unheralded but provides low-cost innings. Austin Hyatt will be that next guy.

      1. Having watched Cloyd,Hyatt,Shreve and Garner—I am surprised at the Garner love. Good arm, very athletic but no control or command. I did not see the movement on his fastball.
        I have hopes for Shreve as he looks like a candidate to regain some zip on his fastball. He walks a few too many but has movement on all his pitches. If he regains his fastball velocity from his amateur days he will be ready quickly.
        Hyatt and Cloyd both seem to have great command of multiple pitches. I wonder if Hyatt should not try to find the exercises that Madson found that ticked his velocity up a couple miles per hour. I love his changeup.

        1. Still holding out on Colby Shreve love. Shreve has received more undeserved attention over the years than any other prospect that I can remember.

  5. I would like to see JC Ramirez and Lino Martinez make the list, because they are in my top 20, but it is doubtful either would get enough support to be voted in.
    Of the guys left to choose, only Perci Garner and Hyatt are in my top 30. I’ll go Garner this round, then probably “other” for the rest of the exercise.

    1. I’m curious as to why you like Lino. Is it because he is young and had a good ERA? His peripherals aren’t all that hot.

      1. I’m curious as well. I got a chance to see Lino pitch on television against the Cyclones. 87-89 mph fastball, 6.1 K/9 ratio. His command was very good but command alone won’t carry him against advanced competition in better hitters’ leagues. He was the only teenage pitcher on the Crosscutters, but that alone doesn’t make him a top prospect.

      2. My reasoning for rating Lino Martinez higher than some, is mostly because he has had good (not great) results at a young age and he is lefty. He has a similar scouting report to the older, Adam Morgan, and I have him in my top 30 also.

        Lino is 19 years old, weighs 160 pounds amd throws 2 mph less than Morgan. I say that he will add velocity as he fills out, and he doesn’t need a lot more because he is lefty. Until then, he has held his own, while being underage in 2 levels.

        1. I saw the game against the Cyclones and I was a bit more impressed- he showed great pitchability, an exceptional sinker for a lefty and pretty good change. The skills he put on display put him on the same level as Tocci for the same reason (though none of us can personally speak to his actual abilities at this point). If what he is now is all he ever has- then sure, he won’t amount to much- but if you give him room for projection, he seems to have the ability to become a good prospect.

    1. I’ve voted Hyatt for 10 consecutive rounds. Then I have Harold Garcia, who it looks like I will be voting for the rest of the rounds.

  6. If JC Ramirez is a top 20 prospect, this farm system is in worse shape than previously thought.

    1. Just a comparison:

      Vance Worley: AA, age 21, K9 5.9, BB9 2.9, HR9 1.0, ERA 5.34, FIP 4.39

      J. C. Ramirez: AA, age 22, K9 5.6, BB9 3.4, HR9 0.9, ERA 4.50, FIP 4.55

      1. JC repeated AA whereas Vance Worley got double jumped. I personally think they should just move JC to the bullpen before he runs out of options.

        1. I agree, JC has Reliever written all over him. But with his arm, he should have MUCH more upside than Schwimer and maybe even as much as DeFratus.

      2. I can understand folks discounting J.C. Ramirez’s performance because he just did not perform as his raw “stuff” suggests he should have and he looks to be in a rut at AA. However, I am cautiously optimistic that Ramirez’s last few starts in AA, which I recall were excellent, were part of a turnaround. Although I don’t necessarily expect him to turn things around, he’s got enough talent that, if he did turn the corner, he could zoom right back up these prospect lists because he throws so hard.

  7. I voted for Rodney Dangerfield, uh, I mean Austin Hyatt. He fools batters and prospect voters alike with his changeup.

    Speaking of No Respect…JC Ramirez belongs on the list, I hope he’s added next.

  8. I originally had Schwimer here but have changed my mind and moved Garner ahead of him based on his higher upside potential.

  9. I know we all love Schwim, but until he shows any ability to get left handers out he is a replacement level mid reliever. So a non prospect for me.

    I voted Garcia here and will then round it out with Garner, Manzanillo, Hudson, Collier, and Ethan Stewart.

  10. Can somebody tell me what Quinn has other than speed? He doesn’t have an IF glove. Dave Roberts was fast and he couldn’t make any starting lineup.

    1. Dave Roberts had a 10 yr career w/over 3000 abs. He was basically a starter from 2002-2007. Five of the six years over 400 abs. Unless you are talking about the local broadcaster Dave Roberts.

  11. I voted for Garner. I have said that he will have a breakout year. He seems ready for it. He will be much higher on the list next year.

  12. Here are the FACTS at the PG National in St Pete for the Top 200 Players in the Country…
    Please feel free to check it out yourself!!!!
    Quinn .. Ran a 6.57 60
    .. Threw 87 mph across the IF
    .. Ran a 4.20 from HP TO 1st B
    T. Greene.. Ran a 6.37 60
    .. Threw 91 mph across the IF
    .. Ran a 4.05 from HP to 1B
    .. Won the HR Derby Qualifier for his Team
    Quinn IS 5′ 8″
    Tyler is 6’2″
    Quinn has a very good agent
    Tyler has No Agent ..
    Lets guess why some players get their bumps from certain publications and others don’t.. FACT!
    I played with Tyler Greene at East Cobb

    1. Well then you should be happy that the fans on this site voted for Greene multiple spots before Quinn…

      Otherwise, the post makes little sense at this point in the process since both have already been ranked.

    2. Is that for real? BA rated Quinn fastest in the draft. I doubt Greene is .2 seconds faster. Possibly Quinn nursing an injury at this event.

      1. I looked it up at Perfect Game’s website and it has Quinn running a 6.35 and Greene running a 6.37 in the 60. He does have the MPH on the throwing arms correct though.

    3. Johnny Mags, you are CRAZY if you think T. Greene is faster than Quinn! There is NOOOOOO Way!!!!! Again NOOOOOOOO Way!!!!!! An agent does not make you faster and that is his choice not to have one. Not very good in business then.

      1. Hey Dic_ Head.. Read the 2010 PG Stats . Quinn ran a 6.57 at the same time and same place Tyler ran a 6.37. Quinn ran a 6.35 personal best at another Event. Are you his Agent?

        1. Like Allentown said Quinn must have been nursing an injury. I would say a major injury.
          Again NOOOOO Way!!! Can’t wait for Spring training so see Quinn fly by Greene! Not saying Greene is not fast becuz I’m sure he has decent speed, just not like Quinn.

  13. Other…J.C. Ramirez – I know he’s been a bust so far but I think he still has enough talent to be considered a prospect and deserves to make the list.

    1. A bust? You probably didn’t want to use that word to describe Ramirez? Check how many starters the Phils have in AA who were 22 last year. Only JC. I saw him once last year, with Dallas Green in the house, and he was unimpressive but I wouldn’t call him a bust. He came with higher expectations than most prospects because he was part of the Cliff Lee deal but he wasn’t the key piece. Aumont and/or Gillies have that designation. He’ll repeat AA and then we get to decide if he’s a bust or not. I have a feeling he’ll be a big surprise this year. He could end up in AAA by the end of the year. JC is #28 on my list and I agree he has talent. Whether that talent tops out in AA remains to be seen. He has had an injury or two in the last two years including a hip problem two years ago. Last year, when i saw him, I thought he looked uncomfortable. I wondered if the hip was acting up again. Nothing was said so I assume that wasn’t the issue. Maybe a little better conditioning and flexibility training will unlock his talents.

      1. JC’s future figures to be in the pen but he’ll have one more year, or at least a part of the year, to show he belongs to stay as a starter. If he struggles during the first half I expect they’ll move him to the pen after the break and promote one of the guys starting at CWater (Colvin?).

  14. I saw both play at instructional and I can tell you that Greene isn’t even close to as fast as Quinn. I repeat not even close.Now people are just making things up.I do not care what PF stats may or may not say.Quinn is one of the fastest players I have ever seen.Greene is a better rounded player,but not near as fast.Period.

  15. I’d like to see Manzanillo, Ramirez, Hudson, Garner, Stewart and Castro find a home in the remaining top 30.

    But there were will be some very interesting fringe guys that will be fun to watch this year. Probably could do a top 40 if we include a few of the other guys from 2011 class like Moore, Giles, Shull, Morgan, Dygestile-Therrien and Martinez. You have the LA Bonus babies, Martinez and Nunez. Collier could sneak back in the top 30 next year and even though most have given up on Hewitt he has flashed 4 of the 5 tools and has committed to Clearwater this whole offseason. You just never know when it will click for a player.

    And I can’t wait until we have some on-the-ground intel on the 2011 draft class. It’s like a bunch of dad’s arguing over their kids at a little leage game right now.

    1. Agreed on both counts. I have 37 players ranked so far, and those rankings do not include guys like Walter, Musser, Dygestile-Therrien, Nunez, Warner, Collier, Hewitt, Villalobos, etc. etc.

      Well characterized on the level of discourse regarding certain 2011 draftees. It is humorous yet annoying at the same time.

      1. Agree on the discourse….the bantering betwixt the Ty Greene supporters vs the rest of the world can be comical at times.

  16. Agreed there should be no room for that kind of name calling on this board its totally unacceptable. State your opinion, make your argument for it and leave it at that. A 60 time is one thing game speed is something totally different.

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