Last posting of 2009, and before I get to #7, I wanted to dish out a bunch of thank yous. First off, thanks to everyone who has contributed to the site this year. Without the work of the contributors, whether it be the weekly affiliate reports, the direct contributions from Mr Schwimer, analysis pieces, or helping me add info to the site, this place would be much less interesting and informative, so thank you to everyone involved on that front. Second, thanks to all of the readers here, and those of you who actively participate in the discussions. If you’ve just found the site, or you’ve been here since the beginning, I thank you for continuing to come back and making this all the more worth my while. 2009 was a record setting year for the site, with over 1.5 million hits this calendar year, surpassing the 1.1 million hits last year. August 2009 was the busiest month in the site’s history, with over 240,000 visitors, including the busiest day ever, draftee signing deadline day on August 17th, with 25,000 visitors. However you found this place, I’m glad you did, and I hope you continue to come back. I have a number of projects in the pipeline for 2010, and I hope the site continues to grow. I never imagined the site becoming what it has when I started it on a whim 3 years ago, but I’m proud of where we are, and excited about where we’re going. Now, on to the voting for #7…
Number 6 was a battle between the toolsy youngsters, with Domingo Santana winning the vote with 38% to Sebastian Valle’s 24%. JC Ramirez and Bastardo were grouped closely together in 3rd and 4th. The only person who voted “OTHER” and actually wrote in their response (that I saw) was a vote for Mathieson, so he’ll go on for now.
01. Domonic Brown, OF
02. Trevor May, RHP
03. Phillippe Aumont, RHP
04. Tyson Gillies, OF
05. Anthony Gose, OF
06. Domingo Santana, OF
07.
Phuture Phillies 
Valle all the way, as I’ve voted for the past 3 spots. His proximity to the majors is better than most others and he has really started to turn it up at the plate, especially in the mexican winter league. Not to mention he plays a premium position which we now have no depth at.
LikeLike
JC Ramirez, scouting report suggests he is as good as May, IMO.
LikeLike
toss up for valle and Ramirez. I went with the former because of familarity.
LikeLike
I don’t think I could consider proximity to the majors as a positive for a player that was demoted from low A-ball the previous season.
LikeLike
Ive been picking Santana since the #2 spot and finally hes now. Now ill do the same for Jarred Cosart.
LikeLike
I voted for A Bastard
Happy New Year everyone!
LikeLike
Somebody hide Valle from Ruben Amaro Jr., who has demonstarted a great propensity for trading catchers in the last year.
LikeLike
The reports saying that Valle might not stay behind the plate worry me…thus I went with Ramirez.
LikeLike
At 19 Valle will be in Lakewood to start the year…let’s revisit him at some point in the summer to see if the Mexican League numbers aren’t a fluke. If they are him turning the corner…we could be very lucky.
He very well could be the trade chip of the future.
LikeLike
jc ramirez for me, i like what i’ve seen in his scouting reports. i hope valle can stick at c.
LikeLike
I continue with J.C. Ramirez.
Note : the Mexican Pacific League finished yesterday. It looks like no playoffs for the Cane Cutters of Los Mochis. So, looks like Valle can have 6 weeks to rest up for Spring Training. Fairly impressive season, though the regular season Mexican League has been rated officially a AAA league for some time, maybe it might really be more like AA (some might know this) and the winter brand could equate to High A, so maybe Valle could jump a little higher next season, seeing as he completed a whole season, and all.
LikeLike
A Clearwater start for Valle would take the weather adjustment out of the picture for a double jumper.
Marfis please explain what you see in JCR. Please I just dont get it.
LikeLike
Maybe nowheels should explain what he DOES NOT see in JCR…it’s not as if Marfis is the only one putting forth the notion that JCR could project to a 2-3 starter down the road in the bigs. That projection has been in numerous scouting reports…
LikeLike
I would be surprised if they jumped him over Lakewood…especially given his issues at that level last year.
He’s young and he needs to develop defensively.
LikeLike
Valle was listed on the GCL Top Prospect list coming out of last season. I was on the bandwagon last year as well, so my high assessment of him is based on far more than his Mexican League performance. I had him #5 above Trevor May even before the Lee/Halladay trades.
LikeLike
Good to see Valle finish up strong going 5 for 10 with a double, a homer and a couple of RBI’s in his final three games in the Mexican Pacific League. Appears to be ready for every day work in high A in April.
LikeLike
I’ll go with Ramirez, just based on the “everyone else says it, so it must be true” theory – could someone let me know where they found these scouting reports? I’d like to take a look.
Also, I just want everyone to keep in mind the unbelievable exodus of talent that we’ve had in this team over the last two years, and especially the last year – look at BA’s Phillies top 10 prospects for last year and look where they are now. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. This trend cannot continue – if it does, in a few years, we’re going to be an organization on the way down in a big hurry. I realize the cupboard has been re-filled to some extent through the latest trade, but, man, since the Blanton trade we’ve lost a LOT of guys, many of whom are going to be good major leaguers and several of whom may end up being legitimate stars and, most importantly, very inexpensive players for their teams in the next few years.
1. Dominic Brown, of – STILL HERE
2. Carlos Carrasco, rhp – GONE
3. Lou Marson, c – GONE
4. Jason Donald, ss – GONE
5. Kyle Drabek, rhp – GONE
6. Michael Taylor, of – GONE
7. Travis D’Arnaud, c -GONE
8. Zach Collier, of – STILL HERE
9. J.A. Happ, lhp – STILL HERE
10. Jason Knapp, rhp – GONE
That’s 7 out of 10 shipped out IN A YEAR! And that doesn’t count Cardenas (would clearly be a top 10), Spencer (probably a top 15), or Outman (could end up being a solid #3 or #4 in Oakland).
In saying this, I am not suggesting that I regret the Blanton trade – he helped us win a WS for crying out loud and I understood and supported the Lee trade. But the prospect side of the ledger, particularly with the latest set of trades, has really suffered. Again, if this is a temporary set-back and the team intends to overpay for top talent after the next draft and it begins to retain and promote top talent, I’ll feel a lot better. But I don’t like this overall trend and, if it keeps up, the long-term health of the franchise will suffer.
LikeLike
Just put total stats together for all three stops Valle had this year. Pretty impressive for a 19-year-old.
147 G, 509 AB, 139 H, .273 BA.
36 2B, 7 3B, 18 HR, 37 BB, 111 SO, 84 RBI
.325 OBP, .477 SLG, .802 OPS
One yellow flag is his demotion. His Lakewood stats from start of year were not good and brought down the totals a good bit. Could be the Northern weather, the fact he was sharing the position with D’Arnaud, first exposure to full-season, or just a garden variety season-starting slump. The other flag is his walks. He could get exposed against smarter pitchers if he remains impatient.
This follows his GCL year of ’08, with a high .700s OPS and .280+ BA.
After this research, I amend my view and realize he has built up a substantial performance track. Most is at lower levels, but in Mexican Pacific League, he seems to be at a high level for age. He made a lot of progress in one year.
Phils have to get this guy’s defense upgraded. He seems to have more offensive potential than Ruiz.
What can hold him back is defense. If he has to move position and his offense is so-so, he could conceivably miss majors altogether. But he has a solid chance, with hard work. It will come down to his motivation and maturity in getting the work done, as is often the case. His improvement after demotion could be a positive indicator on that point.
LikeLike
Cosart. I think he breaks out this year.
LikeLike
This notion that the phillies killed their farm system is ludicrous. Really, when it all breaks down the Phillies only lost the equivalent of Taylor, Drabek and Darnud for Halladay. They didnt lose 7, because they got back guys who were just as good or better than Marson, Carasco, Donald and Knapp.
Gillies, Ramirez, Fransisco and Aumont replaced those guys. Jason Donald would’nt even make the top 10 this year had there not been trades.
LikeLike
**** since the Blanton trade we’ve lost a LOT of guys, ****
Some would say that that is the price teams pay to get to back-to-back WS.
Our system is still fairly strong. Another solid draft in 2010 and we’ll still be Top 10.
LikeLike
how many years until we see Valle in the majors
LikeLike
Please Mike
Trading two catcher,a replacement ready outfield, at least a replacement ready starting pitcher and an at least backup ready infielder, for a slightly better Mayberry and three guys who will not help us this year is not a good thing at least not for ‘010. I believe that starts tomorrow. Amd it took only a top
ten MlB starting pitcher to accomplish this transition.
Ludicrous dont think so. We can talk next New Years eve when MT is rookie of the year.
Ps. I am trying to drop this subject but people keep floating
insults.
LikeLike
James, thanks for all you do for this site. I’ve been using this site for quite a while and its growth has been phenomenal. The contributers make this site a great site.
I voted for Valle. This was the easisest choice since Brown.
Happy New Year to all.
LikeLike
James, congratulations on another highly successful year with the site. It’s truly an invaluable resource for us Phillies fans who are fanatical enough to follow the minor leagues with regularity.
Since it looks like Valle is running away with this one, I’ll start my campaign for Ramirez at #8 here. In a nutshell: Bastardo and Mathieson are relievers with injury red flags, and Cosart and Colvin’s combined sample size consists of 24 GCL innings. Ramirez has #2 caliber stuff (according to Keith Law, who personally scouted him), he had great success in Low-A as a 19-year old, and time is on his side. He’s either my #3 or #4, and I think he deserves to be on here already.
LikeLike
NWheels,
Last years top 10
Brown, Carrasco, Drabek, Marson, Doanld, Taylor, Darnaud, Collier, Happ, Knapp.
Whether they made trades or not. May, Gose, Santana, Valle and Bastardo would challenge for this years’ top 10. Happ graduated, and Donald and Collier would have dropped out.
Gillies, Aumont and Ramirez are good enough prospects, that they would make the Phillies system’s top 10 over last years’s prospects. Gillies is the only one that would’nt have made it last year, but he is the best of the ‘new 3’ THIS year. IMHO, the Phillies Top 10 to begin this year, is not that much worse than the beginning of last year.
LikeLike
Voted Valle again. Haven’t read anything insinuating that his defense stinks. He needs continued work on the D, as does just about everyone in low-A ball. Really, Galvis is about the only teenager whose D has been proclaimed major league ready. Just about everyone else in minors needs to work on both offense and defense, that is why they are still in the minors. Major league debut for Valle is likely late season 2012.
LikeLike
“This notion that the phillies killed their farm system is ludicrous. ”
Well, first, I didn’t say they “killed their farm system” – those are your words, not mine. Second, I did acknowledge that some talent came in. Third, the fact that the Phillies’ downgraded their minor league talent over the last two years is nearly undisputable. Fourth, the downgrade in talent is really a secondary point to my main point. The main point is that the Phillies’s actions could be construed to be setting a precedent that they are going to be dealing most of their best prospects. I hope that this is not true and what we saw was truly extraordinary. But if it is true, I think this does not bode well for the future of the team. You can agree or disagree with this proposition and we won’t know for a while whether: (a) the Phillies will generally be trading their prospects rather than retaining them; or (b) whether, if they do trade their prospects on an habitual basis, it will come back to haunt them. My view is that I am not sure about sub-section (a), but if that is true, I believe it will come back to haunt them. Whether I’m right or you’re right won’t really be known for several more years.
LikeLike
@Catch…while I agree with a lot of your points in theory, the reality is that pennant contending teams don’t routinely promote multiple rookies in the same season. There are a good deal more “prospects” at any one position than can possibly play there in the majors.
2007 saw Kendrick impact the race, 2008 didn’t really see anybody, but 2009 saw Happ and to some extent Mayberry. 2010 will likely see a couple of bullpen pieces impact the big team. I believe that the Phillies DO have the depth to continue to trade prospects for proven major leaguers. I doubt that they will continue this trend however just because I believe they have truly reached the ceiling of what their payroll can handle.
The biggest issue I see is how they handle the Werth situation next year. He is the only legitimate RH bat on the team, so losing Taylor certainly hurts a lot if they are unable to sign Werth. Then again, how much is a player on the wrong side of 30 coming off a career year worth?
LikeLike
By the way, I voted for Valle again. If you’d like an explanation, please see comments from #’s 5 and 6!
LikeLike
They did kill the farm but worth it if they keep lee and spent some money in the draft. to make these move then ignore the draft and internationl market is bad, Especially since there are no infielder beside galvis to help us. Can’t figure out the lack of committment last year to the draft.
LikeLike
personally speaking I would have no problem with ads ont he site.
LikeLike
I has to think what the hell is the plan. To trade top picks to win is admirable but trading Lee put the lie to that. To talk long term with Drabek and MT etc. is unreasonable. One is left with only one conclusion being competitibe is enough from that dark day on out. Some thing we know will happen
1. Charlie will play Raul into the dirt again.
2. If one other of the top 8 are hurt,there is trouble.
LikeLike
Went with JC, as Valle may need to find another position down the line.
LikeLike
ok Valle gets me this round. F
LikeLike
Valle’s size bring back memories of John Oates holding the ball at home waiting for 265 lb Dave Parker to end his Phillies career and open the door to Bob Boone. IT WASN’T PRETTY
LikeLike
PP, thank you for your efforts. Have a blessed and prosperous new year.
LikeLike
I want to join those who have thanked our host for a great year. Thanks for doing the site. Thanks for putting up with our inane and scattered comments. Thanks for brining us Mike Schwimer. And thanks for the great analysis – doing the work that interests all of us and which many of us simply do not have time to do on our own – you are our eyes and ears for the Phillies’ minor league system and you allow us to indulge our obsessive hobby.
LikeLike
The Werth situation is interesting. My guess is that, if they want him around (and I suspect they do), they will sign him to a contract that looks a lot like the contract Jason Bay just signed. The sooner they do that contract the better because there will likely be turnover in the other outfield positions (Brown will replace Ibanez and either Gose or Gillies will replace Victorino). But if they don’t sign Werth, I have no idea what happens other than, I guess, having Brown go to right and replace him. And then what happens when Raul leaves? Your guess is as good as mine.
LikeLike
Thanks James (and everyone else) for all the hard work you put into this site. It’s a must read every morning.
Happy New Year To All.
LikeLike
Gillies, Aumont and Ramirez > Carrasco, Marson, Donald and Knapp IMO. However, I really would loved to see Saunders her as potential replacement for Ibanez. He did hit .279 away from SAFECO. Gillies is a crap shoot, Saunders has done it.
With the impending departure of Werth and Howard due to $$$$ i don’t get the Polanco signing either. Good for a year, but after that the Phils will need power from 3b.
Oh well, starting 1/1/2010 only going to look forward.
LikeLike
I agree that the pharm has been clearly downgraded, as a result it’s made putting together this Top 30 a little less fun but a little more challenging.
I went with Bastardo here as I have for the last several rounds; I just value a guy who is likely to contribute in the majors in some way more than most, I guess. I know his ceiling is now probably a late-inning reliever rather than a starter, but there’s still good value in that. Since the organization has done pretty well with guys with arm troubles recently (Drabek, Mathieson, Knapp to some extent) I’m confident that they’ll find a way to keep him healthier from now on.
So many of the other guys are just too far away right now to rate ahead of Bastardo, who is very possibly going to start next year in the majors. But at the same time, I would have Valle right after him- that shows how the farm has been stripped, imo. Not that it’s in dire straights, but we’re not salivating at the amount of potential contributors from it anymore. At least i’m not.
LikeLike
Also, James, congratulations on the continued success of the site, it’s well deserved. Here’s to another year of great conversations and good performances about/from the Phils’ minor leaguers.
LikeLike
Voted for Valle. JCR is next….
Catch: Your overall point is well taken, but I’m not sure how the Phils could’ve handled the past two years any better. They’ve targeted two high end AL starters and Blanton. All three had/have club friendly contracts. If you’re going to trade prospects for established ML talent, these are exactly the sort of players you should be acquiring.
Whether you want to attribute the latest Lee deal to budget constraints or the desire for additional prospects, it shows we’re not going to empty our system any further to acquire pricey veterans for prospects. That being the case, we should be lauding the Phils for winning a WS and two NL championships while still having a system that’s in the top 12-15.
LikeLike
Let me just add my thanks to James for a great site.
I am really struck by how young our leading prospects have become, compared to just a few years ago. I guess it partly reflects all of the recent trades of major league ready talent. While it may make any mid-season moves difficult, unless we see some real breakthrough progress from the remaining guys at AAA/AA, it also bodes well for the Phillies a few years down the line.
LikeLike
This site is like old time parties or family gathering where guys and the occasional woman would crowd into one room and argue about sports etc (sometimes loudly)
I love it . Thanks James. All you young guys use your head tonight and be back here to disagree and reason.
LikeLike
Happy new year everyone, thanks james for all your hard work on the site. see you guys next year.
LikeLike
Every one is Forgetting about Brian Rosenberg. Just look at his stats this past year at Lakewood and then in Reading . That is very hard too do, in any level of baseball.
LikeLike
Rosenberg will merit consideration later on, but it’s just too early to rate a relief prospect unless it’s a Joel Zumaya type.
LikeLike
Relooking at Rosenberg.
10-4 in the minors
1.11 era
terrific
But what impresses me
0.2 HR per 9
Looks like a midyear callup to me.
LikeLike
I honestly wouldn’t consider Rosenberg a high level prospect. He’s basically a polished college pitcher that’s been blowing away guys less experienced than him. I don’ know how much more he has to grow. He was 23 in A ball when he was blowing people away. Let’s see what happens with some extended time at Reading…not just 10 innings (where his peripherals nonetheless dropped off significantly)
LikeLike
okay but a guy can hope. Something has to go right. So far so bad.
LikeLike
QUESTION Why didn’t Rosenberg pitch in ’07.
LikeLike
Torn labrum surgery.
LikeLike
Here’s James’ original write-up of him from the 08 Draft Review (thanks Google):
“For the second straight year, Louisville has an intriguing fifth-year senior reliever. Following in the footsteps of Trystan Magnuson is righthander B.J. Rosenberg, who missed the Cardinals’ 2007 College World Series run after having surgery to repair a torn labrum in his shoulder. He opened this spring in Louisville’s rotation and took off when he shifted to the bullpen in mid-March. Working in relief, Rosenberg boosted his fastball to 93-95 mph. If he had a more consistent slider and a better medical history, he’d be a sure bet for the first five rounds.”
He has potential to help the big-league club but his ceiling is probably a middle reliever type. Nothing wrong with that though…he could help them this year maybe…if he gets off to a great start in Reading.
LikeLike
BA and Sickels seem to like Rosenberg better than Schwimer, and while I do like Rosenberg, I tend to disagree. I think it’s close, but Schwimer’s had success at a higher level, and I think his size and funky mechanics make him a little bit tougher for hitters to get a read on.
I won’t be voting for either for a little while yet — not because I don’t like them, but because I value potential everyday players and starters more highly than them. Between Mathieson, Bastardo, Schwimer and Rosenberg, there are some potentially nice bullpen pieces in the upper levels that could help in the next year or two.
LikeLike
I like Schwimer better (as a player and a blogger).
We’ll see what happens with both this year at AA.
LikeLike
Despite a bad WHIP, Schwim was still making guys swing and miss at a higher level (15 K in 17 IP between Reading & the AFL). That tells me there’s something there.
Though Rosenberg did alright between Reading and the VWL (I think he was in Winter Ball in Venezuela…could have been another Winter league)
LikeLike
Cosart.
LikeLike
I think you need to add Flande to the group next round…maybe Hewitt too since he does have raw talent
LikeLike
Hewitt? In the top 10? Not on my score card.
LikeLike
Thanks Nepp
We know Schwim has the personality and knowledge. Maybe
Rosenberg can stop by the site sometime. HNY
LikeLike
Valle. Next one is real interesting.
LikeLike
Hewitt will be hard-pressed to make my top 30.
LikeLike
if hewitt wasn’t a top round pick, with his number he would have been released by now.
LikeLike
we gave golson a longer chance then we are given hewitt, i say 2 more yrs then off to work for an insurance company for him.
LikeLike
The good news is we have completed 8 selections (including Valle) and 6 others still listed on the draft board and there are still a lot of prospects worth paying attention to including (in no particular order): Flande, Stutes, Worley, Savery, De Fratus, Schwimer, Rosenberg, J.James, Hewitt, Collier, Galvis, Dugan, Way etc. Not too bad…
LikeLike
I think Bastardo falls somewhere in the top 10, but the writing is on the wall that he will fill the hole left by Eyre. Assuming he is healthy, he should fill the role nicely. That being said I’ll round out the top 10 with Colvin, Valle, Singleton, and Ramirez. Flande and Cosart the top dozen.
LikeLike
Hewitt must “get it” this year or it will be ” Whowitt” Except for
Santana, I like to see a second years work.e.g. M.Way
LikeLike
Happy New Year All. And, THANKS SO MUCH FOR THIS WEBSITE. Truly Awesome!!!
Again I will go with Bastardo. All prospects have an upside vs. probability ratio that is difficult to balance. Since AA seems to be where you have a better idea of a prospect’s probability I have a tough time giving high rankings to A and below.
Bastardo is probably going to be a reliever but has shown the ability to get out major league hitters, possibly as a lefty closer. I think that could be as valuable as a 4th starter.
LikeLike
Concerning the prospect cupboard being bare, it does not really concern me. The Major League team has few openings this year: 2 RP’s out of the Spring and then the fill in pitching they will need throughout the year. The bench is full and will be the replacements for the starters.
The young prospects will rise or fall this year. Corner OF for 2010 should not be hard to find but SP#3 will be a concern.
The depth we had in Marson (C) and Donald (INF) would be nice as cheap bench alternatives but that might be their upside. How much better would they be than a $1.5M vet replacement?
LikeLike
“Marson (C) and Donald (INF) would be nice as cheap bench alternatives but that might be their upside. How much better would they be than a $1.5M vet replacement?”
My guess is that they would’nt be any better, especially this year.
LikeLike
This year they really need to focus on getting the infield straightened out. I don’t think that you can look at it and say that the spots are blocked. Anything can happen and you need to have a plan for the future.
LikeLike
Phillysmith that why I can’t understand the lee trade, why not adress the lack of infield prospects, I believe in seattles top ten are two third baseprospects why not one of them???
LikeLike
A cy young winner coming off an unbelievable post-season should have brought more than they got. Your right they should have landed either Carlos Triunfel or Matt Tuiasosopo.
LikeLike
Triunfel is their top prospect. He’s ready to play right now. The Phillies are championship team and they have a guy named Rollins under contract for 2 more years. If the guy is ready now, what would the Philies do with him?
Those two 3rd base prospects are nothing special. Very low upside. Would you rather the Phillies except lower ceiling players just because they dont have good 3rd base prospects in the system? Makes no sense.
The Phillies are not going to insert a minor league player into the lineup in the next year. They did what they should have done. They got the best players Seattle had, that could be ready by 2011-12.
LikeLike
Not saying they substitute any of the players we got. I’m talking in addition to what we got. Lee’s value was high. Also Seattle couldn’t have been the only team interested in Lee. No doubt in my mind there was a better deal to be made.
Putting the trade aside, we still have a lot of work to do. Just look at the names we are discussing here. No infielders outside of Singleton at first.
In my opinion, we should be looking to package some of the outfield talent now, while their value is still good, and round out the system better. Brown’s future is probably in leftfield, but I have a hard time seeing all the outfield spots opening up in the next few years. Werth will get his extension before the all star break, and Victorino will get a deal in 2011.
LikeLike
I would be surprised if Victorino got a deal in 2011. He will be replaced by Gose or Gillies. With Gose already in the fold, I don’t believe the Phillies went out and got Gillies with the expectation that Victorino is going to be the long-term CF.
LikeLike
phillysm, I tend to believe the Phillies could have received a better deal. On the other hand, I tend to believe that the 2nd Seattle deal with Toronto was an extension of the 4 way trade. That would make the Phillies haul for Lee: (Some % of) Morrow, Aumont, Gillies and Ramirez. If not, they may have rushed the deal and received less, in order to make sure the public did not get a chance to get used to the idea of having Lee and Halladay. I believe the former more than the latter.
LikeLike
Going to have to write in Tim Kennelly sooner than later. He was a doubles machine in 09 and just turned 23 last month. In 2009 he hit 33 doubles between Clearwater and Reading, 3 more in the World Cup in Sept. for the Aussies and 9 more in the weekend Claxton tournament down under in Oct. and Dec.
Wish they would decide if Kennelly is going to be a catcher or stick to his natural position which with the Aussies is in right field. Now that Taylor is gone they might need some outfield help at the higher levels. An outfield at AA of Kennelly, Gillies and Brown would be interesting but they resigned the old Reading filler outfielders Maher and Spidale as well. Was impress with Tim when I saw him catch Drabek at Reading last season but they resigned Nelson and added John Suomi to catch too. Add in Gosewisch and Hoover to the mix and they seem to have a 5 catchers for four positions at the AA and AAA level. It’s anyone’s guess what will happen with this organization.
Nice story about the Kennelly boys in the Aussie press:
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/sport/a/-/other/6625759/brothers-help-heats-cause/
LikeLike
It all comes down to money in the end, and we’ll just have to see how that unfolds. But I can’t see all three positions opening up like a lot of posts have suggested. And if for some reason that did happen, they would sign a bigger name to fill at least one of those spots. Never going to see a Brown, Gose, Gillies outfield.
LikeLike
mikes77phillies
They never could have had both on the roster for any amount of time. That played into it somehow.
LikeLike
I’m going with Bastardo. Look at the money we need to throw at journeymen relief pitchers like Baez. If a guy like Bastardo can step in and help the big club that is a nice help. Based on his performance I think he belongs at this spot.
LikeLike
As for OF, I can’t see any of these three current OF going anywhere. Vic has played at almost an all star level with solid defense. He’s relatively cheap and he likes Philly. The only way Werth leaves if he asks for too much money, which I suppose is a possibility. And everyone writes off Ibanez, even though he was clearly our first half MVP and was obviously banged up the 2nd half. Trust me he’s not going anywhere soon. If anything, I could see him sticking around and moving to 1B if the phils can’t nail down a deal with Howard. There’s no way this whole group turns over in a couple years, no way whatsoever.
LikeLike
phillysmith
It is obvious now that they have won. Management is not going to push as hard for another series or even pennant.
Poster wondered why MT wasn’t in the AFL. Personally I believe a great season would of brought too much exposure
and for non-baseball reasons (see phillies history) they wanted him out.
Everything said about trading Lee is a flat out lie and most of you know it.
LikeLike
Nowheels – I don’t agree with what the Phillies did with their latest moves, but I could not disagree more that they don’t want to win. Rather, I think the moves they made are, on the whole, designed to maximize their ability to win over a 2-3 year period which, I believe, compromised their longer term goals. But I think all the stuff about not wanting MT around for non-baseball reasons is entirely untrue. I think they decided they needed one corner outfielder for the short term and the guy they liked most was Brown – which made Taylor expendable in their view. Now, I happen to disagree with their approach, but there was no MT witch hunt.
LikeLike
Allentown – agreed – the team will be looking to replace Victorino in 2011 or 2012, more likely 2012. They are targeting Gillies and Gose as possible replacements. Of all of their longer term player strategies, I happen to agree with how they are dealing with centerfield. Victorino is a nice player, but they are better off going with minor league talent and not paying him the $7-9 million a year he will soon be seeking.
LikeLike
What did the Phillies do with the 13 million they got for the Elton John/Billy Joel concert Concert? that plus the 6 million in Bluejay money should have kept Cliff Lee here. Again the Phillies silent Owners come up Cheap. The 1 owner sold his Cigar company for Millions? What about revenue sharing? I know Just selling out the Stadium brings in 145 Million a year . Not counting the food, and parking. Comcast please buy the Phillies!!!!!!!
LikeLike
What are you guys talking about?
This is about prospects and receiving prospects while staying within a certain budget. If it was all about money, they would have non-tendered Joe Blanton and Chad Durbin. They will make the same 9 million that Lee made. Lee got the Phillies prospects that Blanton would not get.
Lee is in the last year of a contract and the Phillies are contenders. They would not have the option of trading him at the trade deadline while in a pennant race… And don’t give me draft picks. Aumont alone, is worth the 30th pick (once the Yankees or Red Sox sign Lee) and supplemental pick combined.
LikeLike
Don’t the fans paying for seats this year have the right to the best team. And if you say the team in ’10 wasn’t stronger before the Lee trade you are a fool or a liar.
None of the prospects fill a position of need for at least two years if ever. And BTW didn’t you guys spend the last two years telling my how great Blanton was?
I have spent many years listening to excuses and I am sick of it. Just thank your lucky stars for Omar who has made the last two years possible.
I believe everything that Lee has said and NO ONE know if he would of signed or not. Be gullible if you want as long as you don’t have to shell out money for seats.
LikeLike
no wheels is a whiny bitch…
thank omar for the last two years? eat a dick, nowheels…
go root for someone else.
and if you don’t think Lee and his rep overplayed their hand and spent the days after the trade doing public backtracking and re-telling of story, then your even dumber than most of your posts make you come off as…
LikeLike
“Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain…and most fools do.”- Benjamin Franklin
LikeLike
Nowheels has spent many years listening to excuses; the past two seasons just weren’t good enough for him. Afterall, he bought a ticket, he has rights.
LikeLike
A healthy Scott Mathieson will make a big difference in the bullpen next year. He merits a spot in the top 10.
LikeLike
“Marge, this ticket doesn’t just give me a seat. It also gives me the right…NO, the duty to make a complete and utter ass of myself.”-Homer Simpson
LikeLike
I’m with you… how is Mathieson not on this list… he stands to be the player most likely to help the big club in ’10.
LikeLike
Insult all you want if the ideas of the best starting staff since
the Koufax Dodgers meant nothing to you.
LikeLike
I think there’s a few on here who may be discounting Mathieson simply because he’s had a bit of time in the show, albeit years ago. You could make the same ‘help the big club in ’10’ for Bastardo too. There doesn’t seem to be a rush to vote for him, either…
LikeLike
And apparently nowheels is of the opinion that a rotation of Halladay, Lee, Hamels, Blanton, and Happ is the best starting staff since the Koufax Dodgers?
It wouldn’t even have been the best starting staff in baseball next year…
LikeLike
Can we please, please, please, please, please have a thread that doesn’t involve complaining about the Cliff Lee trade. Please?
LikeLike
Couldn’t agree more, Alan…I’m tired of people blubbering over spilled milk.
And I’m excited about this top 30 list, as altered as it may be from what I thought it would look like a month ago…
LikeLike
at least we aren’t talking about trading jaramillo.
LikeLike
Sometimes I hate our fans so much. How can people be calling for the heads of the Phillies’ owners when THEY just brought this city our first Championship in a quarter of a century!? The Phillies are currently going through their best era ever and some of us fans are being a bunch of bitches because the man in charge would rather win long term than just finish this cycle and get the club on its way to being the first club with 20,000 losses.
Stop acting like spoiled little princesses. We got two fine arms in the trade for Lee and also a player who could very well be the one to replace Shane in CF. They are higher upside players than what we gave up for Lee. Be happy you have a team that should be contenders for years to come.
Ask the Steelers if they would of rather gotten rid of their ownership and Cowher when they were getting close but not winning championships.
Freaking annoying!
LikeLike
I think we’ve sufficiently hammered the dunce cap onto nowheels’ thick skull.
LikeLike
We need to move onto #8. This conversation has reverted to attacking nowheels. While I don’t agree with most of his opinions and I find him too negative for my taste, he is still entilted to his opinion. As long as he is not being beligerent, he should be able to post his thoughts on this site. It would be rather boring if we felt the same way about every topic.
I voting for Ramirez as the Phillies #8 prospect. From what I have read, he has a good arm with plenty of upside. I’m optimistic that his numbers last year were inflated as a result of the league he was in. I think he’ll start in Reading and should develop onto a nice starter with the potential to pitch at Citizens Bank Park in a couple of years.
LikeLike
I really would like to know. i will give y my email peligro, do y work for the phillies. Halladay, lee. hamels wouldnt be the best staff who would be better??? I always believe the phillies monitor these sites and put people on to help there image. They blew a chance to be great by the lee trade, pure and simple, when you trade a number one you must get back value. a hip injured pitcher a california league punch and judy hitter who has no power and his hits to shortstop at reading will be outs, and a 21 year old 5.00 ers pitcher who isnt nearly ready or might never be is not egual value’. rather have the two first round choices and a year of lee. and all you hammered his you stupid comments that montgomery told you to make. 80 % of the phillies fans on espn poll and csn said salary dump. but your not fooling us montgomery using another name, No true phillies fans is that stupid like peligro is trying to act as .cant be that stupid . or can he???
LikeLike
“… when you trade a number one you must get back value. a hip injured pitcher a california league punch and judy hitter who has no power…”
What?
Do you know that Aumont was was the 11th overall pick in 2007 draft (or higher than the compensation pick we would receive for Lee)? Do you know he has K/9 rate of 12, or that he is 20 years old with AA experience?
Do you know that Tyson Gillies was top 5 in ALL of minor league baseball in Batting average and OBP? Seriously, a guy with 80 speed, plus plus range, plus arm and a .436 OBP is ‘nothing’? If that guy can keep his OBP over .400, he would never have to hit HR in life.
Do you know what good prospects are?
LikeLike
Mike 77 hit the nail on the head. Phillies look for power and speed combos. I saw Gillies play one time and I thought, man, I wish we had him in the Phillies organization! This guy is going to be very, very good. Insane speed and good on base skills… ahead of Werth, Howard and Utley… got to sign Werth though and that should be next priority.
On potential, I voted for Ramirez for the 7. Obviously, the Phillies think Valle is going to be good or they would not have traded a catcher to Toronto (though probably what happened was that they gave them a list of 3 players and said “pick one”). But Ramirez ceiling is a #2 starter and valle is way far away.
LikeLike
By the way, you add in the other choices there plus Carpenter and Galvis and that’s a really strong top 15. Put in the 5 or so athletes (Hewitt, Dugan, James etc) and the system may not have the star power it had 3 months ago, but it is very deep. When it comes time to add an arm and a bat at trade deadline, the Phillies have built in options.
And that’s how you get to the WS.
LikeLike
I’ve made an attempt to come up with my own extended list. It’s amazing that when you get to spot #40, there are still some interesting names sitting around.
LikeLike
mike77 i follow prospects and do you know if you related his california league number he is a 270 hitter at cleawater. second he has speed to burn but a lot of his hits were balls he will be thrown out on in double aa that is according to scouts, but you are a scout aumont has a hip condition and arm problems, being drafted 11 means nothing, how many tops picks dont make it to majors, stupid argument , why didnt they get a infield prospects where they lack so much in there system. you dont trade a number one for these types of prospects you do what the marlins did get a ramirez for a number one starter value for value.
LikeLike
1. You counter my argument by saying “being drafted 11 means nothing, how many tops picks dont make it to majors”
Didnt you just say ” rather have the two first round choices “?
2. You say, ” you do what the marlins did get a (Hanley)ramirez for a number one starter (Beckett)”
Not in any way the same situation as Cliff Lee. Beckett still had 3 more years of cost control at undermarket salary.
Nobody except the Yankees would have given a Blue Chip(Top 25) prospect for the right to pay Cliff Lee for ONE season and let him walk or get held up for 120 million. Your not making any sense.
The argument you use, could have been used for Cole Hamels after the 2008 season, had the Phillies traded Cole. For Lee it isnt applicable and does not make a bit of sense.
LikeLike
mike77: “Nobody except the Yankees would have given a Blue Chip(Top 25) prospect for the right to pay Cliff Lee for ONE season and let him walk or get held up for 120 million. Your not making any sense.”
Didn’t the Brewers, a small market team, give up a Top 25 prospect (at the time) in Matt LaPorta for the right to pay CC Sabathia for HALF a season? CC is a better pitcher, but not by much, and the half season would make a lot of difference.
LikeLike
“Didn’t the Brewers, a small market team, give up a Top 25 prospect (at the time) in Matt LaPorta for the right to pay CC Sabathia for HALF a season”
Yes, they did. But, no team does that in the off-season before the year starts because they dont know if they are going to be in a pennant race. They sell out at the trade deadline. Additionally, Cliff Lee is not regarded as one of the top 2-3 pitchers in baseball, as Sabathia, Santana and Halladay have been.
BTW, the Brewers lost on that exchange because they didnt even get a 1st round pick as compensation. I believe Tex had a higher rating, so the Angels got the pick.
LikeLike
There is a reason the mlb-tv guys luv the Seattle gm. He is quickly getting a solid reputation as a great trader. In that light one has to wonder.
BTW. Even on the radio the Phils have tried to change public
opinion with “plant” callers. Don’t forget Wade was educated in public relations and they seem to have carried on his work.
Carpenter is the place to put your long shot money if he even get a chance. Like Happ we will have to fight for that chance.
LikeLike
Work for the Phillies? Um no…
And mike77 is dropping knowledge on you two dimwits…pay attention.
And oh yea, Boston’s rotation is better…unless you think Happ is better than Bucholz.
LikeLike
12-4 with the team scoring 3 runs in Happ’s losses. In total one bad game. Happ doesn’t have the rapp or the flash but he gets it done. Happ more wins than Bucholz or Wakefield. Much lower ERA even deducting .5 runs for DH.
Is Hamels better than Wakefield?
Is Blanton better than Whoever
LikeLike
First time poster…and a very cool site!
I think it is asinine to suggest that a team with a $140 million payroll isn’t trying to win. I mean…really. I will be the first to admit that there are posters on this forum who could probably crush my cojones with their knowledge of the minor leagues and minor-league player evaluation, but it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to deduce that 1) the guys who are making decisions for the Phillies these days are pretty good, and 2) after giving up significant bodies in the Blanton, Lee and Halladay trades, they needed to re-stock the farm.
I think that it is laughable to suggest that the two picks that we would get for Lee had we held onto him were not materailly less valuable than what we got from Seattle. Assuming that they use those supplemental picks for high-school kids, they would be drafted in the spring of 2011…and even if they got some short-season ball under their belts in 2011, we would be realistically looking at those guys in 2014-2015…as opposed to the three Seattle guys – who will all be starters at Reading in 2010 and could realistically be in the mix for CBP in 2012.
But what do the guys making the decisions for the Phillies know, anyway? They should just blow their payroll sky-high, keep Lee (and, hey, why don’t we sign Lyon and Park while we’re at it), and then worry about 2011 (and 2012 and 2013…) later. Right?
(shakes head slowly)
I’ll go with Ramirez here. I understand Bastardo (and Mathieson, for that matter), but JC has the potential to be a 2/3 starter, and you can never have enough of those.
LikeLike