Reader Top 30; #4

2010 Reader Top 30

The voting for #3 was one of the closest votes we’ve had over the last 2 seasons, with newly acquired Phillippe Aumont edging out his teammate Tyson Gillies for #3. Final vote totals were

Aumont 192
Gillies 164
Gose 85
Santana 60
Valle 23
Cosart 17
Singleton 2
Other 8

Just a reminder. If you vote OTHER, you have to actually post who your vote was for, I don’t see the write-ins for other. Check below the fold for #4

01. Domonic Brown, OF
02. Trevor May, RHP
03. Phillippe Aumont, RHP
04.

83 thoughts on “Reader Top 30; #4”

  1. Wonder if Gillies will move up, or if the Aumont contingent will throw their support behind somebody else.

    Gillies for me, for the combination of solid upside and a higher floor than anyone sniffing the Top 10 not named Brown, Bastardo or Mathieson.

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  5. went with aumont last time, and its gillies for me this time. The arguments have been made for me. Cosart is up here for me, but he is so far away that i can’t put him top 5. Valle and Gose come next for me and then some of the GCL guys like santana, cosart, singleton, colvin.

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  6. It’s Gillies. Premium defensive position, Offensive Production, age and level.
    However, I wonder who would be more attractive to other teams in a trade by themselves: Gillies, Santana, Valle or Gose?

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  7. Tyson Gillies, vote. See CF,CF,CF here, but it is said he plays all 3 OF positions. Since he possesses superior speed and throwing arm he should not lack much to develop into superior defensive OF. As to the California League Issue, I would think it would count more off for a power hitter than a singles type player. I could see Gillies in LF and Gose in CF future wise even without substantial power improvements in either. They can maybe add some power at the other positions. Somebody put a scouting video of Gillies on here when the trade was first proposed. Looks very athletic and flexible with quick reflexes, maybe this works out.

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  9. It looks like it’s going to be Clark Gillies’ day. I’m certainly excited about following him next year. He could be Dom Brown with more speed and less power, or a younger version of Quentin Berry with a better skillset. Either way, that translates to a stud prospect.

    – Jeff

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  10. I went with Gillies here. I have a personal man-crush on high OBP guys. I just can’t see voting for Cosart just yet. He’s been a professional for a season and a half and has thrown 24 innings. Granted, they’ve been an impressive 24 innings, but until he throws more innings I can’t put him in my top 5.

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  12. Going with Bastardo here. Jury still out on Aumont and Gillies. Aumont with a 12.00 ERA in the AFL and Gillies 3 for 29, .103 avg. in the Cali playoffs pause for concern.

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  13. Bastardo…since he’ll 99% be an MLBer…something I cant say about any of the others right now.

    Could have easily went with Gillies or Santana here as well.

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  15. I went with Gilles based on his stats of last season. A strong season for Gilles could possibly have him in Philly in 2011 because he bats right handed and has a good glove and there might be an opening.

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  16. Even on potential how can y rated Cosart third, is our system that weak, he has shown nothing to warrant that high a rating,

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  17. RodeoJones: with Gillies looking like a shoo-in to win this round, I’ll be joining you aboard the Ramirez bandwagon starting next round. Looks like it may be awhile, though.

    Mr. Chairman, might we entertain a request to have Ramirez added to the ballot for the next round?

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  18. PhillyFriar – I don’t have much of an agrument with Gillies ahead of Ramirez, but I do with Aumont, either way I’m really just trying to get the momentum going at this point. I’m glad to get some more people aboard. I think he’s going to break out this year.

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  19. Near landslide for Gillies so far. I have him at #2.

    So may I start my campaign for Valle at #5 now? If he were at another position I wouldn’t rate him so high, maybe not even top 10. But I think the value at position plays a big part in this analysis. Particularly considering the rest of the field. FWIW, my top 30 includes 12 RHP, 11 OF, 3 LHP, 2 SS, 1 1B and 1 C. (No partridge, no pear tree)

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  21. Mikemike many see Cosart as a possible frontline starter with a mid 90s fastball good curve and developing changeup. Is that nothing?only thing he lacks in my eyes is innings so may has the edge

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  22. He was ranked lower before his 2009 season, which was a breakout season by any measure. The post-2009 season rankings didn’t come come out before the trade, or if they did, I haven’t seem them. I would assume that his post-2009 rankings would have had him ranked similarly well in the Seattle system.

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  23. I voted Gose. Gillies next. I project more out of Gose in power, SBs and defense. Gillies looks to be the better OBP guy, but that too can change. Gose does take pitches. Perhaps he will start taking walks.

    But even our #1 is there because of our projections (more than his actual performance). Toronto asked for Gose last year in the Halladay discussions. Gillies was included in this Lee deal, and I think he was #20 in their system. I guess I’m reading into all of that, in addition to the Gose hype from Lamar, Scouting the Sally, and other services. I don’t have much more than that to defene Gose over Gillies.

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  24. BA’s 2010 Seattle top 10 comes out January 22.
    There 2009:

    1. Greg Halman, of
    2. Michael Saunders, of
    3. Phillipe Aumont, rhp
    4. Carlos Triunfel, ss/2b
    5. Juan Ramirez, rhp
    6. Adam Moore, c
    7. Mario Martinez, 3b
    8. Jharmidy DeJesus, 3b
    9. Dennis Raben, of
    10. Michael Pineda, rhp

    Gillies was listed as their top baserunner and top outfield arm. But as Larry points out 2009 was his breakout year.

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  25. Voted Bastardo. I really hope they can keep him as a starter in AAA and he dominates. Then he becomes a valuable trade chip. If he cannot handle the workload then he becomes Romero’s replacement in 2011 which I think is pretty valuable.

    I’m still not sure why the Phillies got Gillies. I guess he has starter potential where a few of their other guys are just backups. But Berry, Mayberry, Susdorf, Brown, Gose, Collier, Dugan, Santanna, Castro, James, Hewitt is quite a long list and half of them can play CF in a pinch.

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  26. Now I am really stumped. Two of seattle top ten are third basemen why not one of them f or lee instead of ramirez

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  27. Gillies is the best bet to replace Victorino in CF when Vic becomes too expensive. His numbers are impressive – he gets on base, has speed and plays a great D. I like him and like that we are not just relying on Gose.

    Now we need some infield prospects.

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  28. dont care…no Taylor, dont give a shit about anyone else !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! have fun discussing people you have never seen play EVER in your life !!!!!!!!!!!!! dumb asses !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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  29. This is a cool concept and great way to assess the ballplayers. My question, though, is what is the standard by which the players are ranked here? Is it who is likely to have the biggest impact at the major league level someday or is it who will get to the bigs the soonest and make some type of decent contribution? If it’s the latter, then Bastardo wins hands down, and probably should be the #1 prospect, as the odds are good he’ll be on the Phils this year and could be a key contributor. If this is more focused on potential impact over the length of a career, then it is likely a different conclusion. Some clarification would be helpful. Thanks.

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  30. Murray: Gillies bats left-handed, which is a good thing because with his speed it helps him get on-base on ground balls and bunts. But he has not shown any platoon differential thus far in the minors; he hits lefties and righties equally well.

    Mike77 wrote, “I wonder who would be more attractive to other teams in a trade by themselves”. That is my criterion for ranking players. I try to determine their trade value. When choosing between two players, I ask myself which player I think that more teams would prefer, if they could choose one.

    I voted for Gillies here because of his ability to get on base via walk, hit or bunt, steal bases and presumably run the bases, play center field with a great arm, and by all accounts play with great enthusiasm and love for the game. If he had more power he’d be a prospective all-star, but for a centerfielder it looks like he is a fine prospect.

    I voted for Aumont #2 (and #3) because of his high draft pick status and more hype, which sounds warranted. I read a nice article on Aumont in a Seattle paper (on-line) saying that his hip problem is not degenerative and all he has to do is exercise and stretch it to take care of it. He was made a reliever because of his personality and temper. When you throw in his curve ball and fastball he reminds me a bit of Brett Myers. He competes so hard he has trouble pacing himself. I should have posted this before, as it influenced my vote for Aumont, but better late then never. http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/mariners/2010057385_mari14.html

    Nowheels, what do you mean “Now that the Bastardo situation is clear”? My number one questions is, is he healthy? What sort of injuries has he been having? Is he a starter or is he a reliever? Which is better on his arm to prevent injuries in the future, relieving and pitching less innings, but more frequently with less of a routine, or starting with more innings, less games, and a very regular routine?

    I am trusting the SONAR score in my vote for Gillies, as well as my downgrade of Gose and upgrade of Valle For the next round I am considering Bastardo, who I’ve always been concerned about due to his lack of innings every year, Valle, and Santana. I’m worried about the small sample size for Santana, but but I love what he’s done. I think he has the highest ceiling of anybody in the organization including Brown, but he’s so young. I’ll probably go Valle, Santana, Bastardo, unless I read something positive about Bastardo’s health and potential future durability. I have a feeling I’ll never get to vote for Gose, because he’ll sneak in before all of those. I will like Gose more when he shows something more offensively, either better slugging or OBP.

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  31. No I didn’t know if he was still a Rookie. I wish we had a better pitching coach/manager combo. They do some crazy dodo.

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  32. NEPP said, “Where was Gillies ranked in the Mariners system. Why is he ranked so high in ours…”

    My take is that Gillies has taken the same route in rankings that Michael Taylor took. Michael Taylor was ranked in the 20’s until his 2008 breakout, due to pedestrian short season numbers, but he exploded in A ball. Gillies was ranked in the 20’s in preseason, but as high as 7th by midseason. I don’t think it is an insult to the Phillies system for Gillies’ ranking to shoot up this far. Who knows, he may have passed 3 or 4 more Mariners prospects if he hadnt been traded.

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  33. Since this is mostly on projection I gonne write in Altherr. I am gonna go on record and say he will be better then all the other OF prospects.

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  34. From Seattle’s Top 10…wasn’t there at leats 1 3B prospect that we could have liked enough to be thrown in??? Anyway…
    I like the power arms for more potential before fast legs and with our OF’s that is all we know they have at the moment… so I like Cosart & Colvin… as long as they can throw it 90+ over the plate there is a chance… My vote is for Colvin… I think he will turn out to be special…

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  35. I just read that Bastardo is currently pitching for Cibao in the Dominican Republic and has appeared in 7 games, only as a reliever. As a reliever, does the injury-prone Bastardo rank ahead of the surgically repaired and apparently recovered Mathieson, who throws harder and is a more accomplished pitcher, all of the remaining starting prospects such as Cosart, De Fratus, or Stutes, or even some other closer prospects with better injury histories such as Rosenberg and Schwimmer? Obviously the Phillies like Bastardo (which means a lot to me) since they kept him on the post season roster last season ahead of Escalona and Condrey planning to throwing him into the mix with Escalona and presumably Zagurski to replace Eyre next season, but I am not sure the value of a pitcher who might spends more time on the DL than on the active roster. It seems like the Phillies have no shortage of pitching prospects but no clear cut favorite for the second tier of their top 10 prospects. Am I wrong that Bastardo is injury-prone? All I know for sure is that he never pitched more than 98 innings in the minors where he has mostly been a starter, that I considered him to be fragile at this time last off-season and that he was obviously hurt for a while last season.

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  36. As far as I know Bastardo was only injured once.

    Now a thought if a guy like Bastardo is injured it isn’t the end of the world. You can bring in another youngster until
    the heals but let a vet getting few million and the story changes.

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  41. Dick is not the only one that feels that way. It is very hard to imagine trading Taylor. Guys that have been around see this
    whole things (Lee especially) as be competitive and that is enough.
    Lets respect each other RA is mad that means he cares.

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  42. I guess I’m not surprised that Gillies is by far our #4. I voted for him myself. I think Santana and Valle have far more upside potential but they are just too far away. #5 will get interesting. Will Santana or Valle’s potential vault them to #5? Is it time to look over at the pitchers? Might be time for Bastardo or Cosart. Gose is getting his fair share of votes. I’ve got some thinking to do for #5.

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  44. Bellman,
    I’m with you. No. 4 is a done deal, but I think #5 could be interesting. Do people start voting for potential, pitchers, or “sure things”? I’m trying to decide between Gose and Santana. I’m leaning towards Santana’s upside, especially since we have two very similar players in our system with Gose and Gillies. I don’t believe there will be room in the outfield for two burners with very little pop.

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  45. Its sure not like last year, It as though Ruben stole our present under the tree. The worse part given how they treated Happ and trading away everyone interesting, one has to wonder if any prospect will get the smallest chance lest they do well.

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  47. OT: David Murphy, in discussing the bullpen of the major league team next year, included BJ Rosenberg in the list of minor league players (with Tony Bastard, Escalona and Mathieson) who will get a look in spring training in 2010. I just wanted to pass it along as this is the first time I’ve seen him mentioned in that capacity. I really thought Schwimmer and him would do another year in the minors and then be looked at, but I guess the team liked what they saw in Rosenberg last year.

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  48. It is being reported that Saunders was originally in the lee deal, but the Phillies wanted Gillies instead and switched him out. Can anyone compare the two as prospects? I know Saunders ws in the majors last year, but who would you rate higher and why?

    Thanks.

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  49. Saunders is the higher rated prospect but I guess Rube & Co see something they like in Gillies.

    Rating prospects is an inexact science at best.

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  51. Gose – Because of both tools and performance. Compared to Gillies he is a year younger relative to level. He also played in a bad offensive environment in Lakewood while Gillies played in the best in the minors. Gillies does have more plate discipline, but Gose has better overall tools including more power potential.

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  52. I also read that piece thats aid the Phils subsituted Gilles for Saunders. That really surprised me because I had been wondering all along why the Phils didn’t ask for Saunders. I’m going to trust that they know what they’re looking at. Since Ken alerted me that Gilles batted lefty also, it should be very interesting to see what the Phils do about RF for 2011. I’ll continue to naively hope they sign the current RF to an extension even though I find it highly unlikely.

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  53. Murray, Essentially then the one part of the deal breaks down as Taylor for Gillies. I’m sure Oakland would’ve traded Wallace for Saunders as well. So the Phils could’ve kept Taylor and let Seattle go to the Jays.

    Sure would have liked to see Taylor at CBP, but I guess they see Gillies as closer to replacing Victorino than Gose. the Brown replacing Ibanez.

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  55. ****Sure would have liked to see Taylor at CBP, but I guess they see Gillies as closer to replacing Victorino than Gose. the Brown replacing Ibanez.****

    Hope we resign Werth in that scenario…not that I see it happening moneywise.

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  57. i find it hard to believe that the 3 guys we got back are not interesting. i think its just as fun to see what these guys do that we got back after the trades as interesting as the players we have followed the last 2 yrs. anyway #5 is gonna be real interesting i see 4 guys all potentially so close to each other that we can just go 5,6,7,8 in no particular order. when do pitcher and catchers report?!!!!

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  58. We CANNOT lose Werth in this left-handed heavy lineup. I like to think that they’d replace Ibanez before Victorino too.

    Our payroll has to increase for these players. There’s no excuse not to do that. It’s not like they aren’t rolling in dough.

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  59. Let’s not forget that a major reason that the team didn’t make the Halladay trade last summer was the reluctance to include Gose.

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  60. This may be a little off topic, but I thin k that the Phillies realize the hit that the system has taken and will make a major effort to restock in the next 2-3 drafts by going above slott in the lower rounds to buy out scholarships.

    I think they get it.

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  61. Marc frankly I don’t think they give a crap. They have fannies in the seats and they will do just enough to keep them there and little else.

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  65. Every time the Phillies dare to trade a prospect that is actually performing well, you get these posts, cryingthat the farm system has been torn apart. Same thing when they traded Cardenas for Blanton.
    Cardenas was a sure fire Hall of famer remember?
    I was sick for a day, when they traded Michael Taylor, but get over it. Michael Taylor will be good, and would have been a nice replacement for Werth, but they have obviously decided to replace CF instead.

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  66. There will be plenty of chances of replenish the system. It’s all about the willingness to spend money in the later rounds to buy out scholarships.

    That’s how the draft game is played these days….Pat Gillick taught them that.

    Happy Holidays to all.

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  67. Regardless of how you view the Halladay-Taylor/Drabek trade, I think it is well worth expressing regrets over Taylor departure. That is true any time you have a player with the potential to be special over a long period of time.

    Taylor is a unique type. He has some Dick Allen characteristics (hits the ball with authority all over the park, very athletic, but strong). He has the size of a Ryan Howard, does not project as much power, but will hit more doubles and for higher average.

    He is most like Dave Winfield, big guy with good but not great power, athletic big man, good outfielder with a very good arm–Winfield was a premium hitter who had hall of fame career.

    Can’t predict that for Taylor, but you are not nuts if you dare to think it, with his abilities.

    Plus, like Winfield, Taylor is an intelligent and great guy.

    That’s a wealth of attributes and promise and surely something to cry over–big time.

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  68. The phillies lost me when they spent no money in the draft. and let lee go for nothing. So we can debate players, bottom line,” if we make it to the final 8 and get hot is all we want montgomery said,” not we want to be as good as possible thats why we keep lee and will deal with his contract after the season, thats what a owner who wants to win would do.

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  69. mikemike Says:
    December 25, 2009 at 3:25 PM

    “The phillies lost me when they spent no money in the draft. ”

    **************

    I wanted Susac and Stewart signed as badly as anyone, and have criticized them for this, but I am honestly not sure what it would have taken to sign them. Susac especially didn’t seem remotely interested in missing the college experience. Brody Colvin barely signed for almost $1M.

    So it’s hard for me to use the label “cheap” on them for Stewart and Susac without knowing more details. As much as I believe you bust slot to get guys like this signed, I don’t believe you pay “ANYTHING” to get a guy signed.

    In 2009 the Phillies signed 26 out of their top 28 picks and 29 out of their top 32 picks. That’s one of their better performances in getting that many guys signed that early in the draft.

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  70. The telling line came from Ruben. He said they had to watch spending because things may not always go this well as far as revenues in goes. This organization lives on fear. They were at the top of the world and crying poor, instead of dealing with ANY situation when it comes up(e.g. salary dumping if there is a loss of revenue). Posters say I am negative or bitter well yeah. Halladay and Lee was ideal. Deal with problems later!
    The loss of Taylor goes beyond baseball. His potential as a positive force and role model can’t be overestimated. That’s
    not baseball but it is reality. One can’t help but wonder is they want a certain crowd at the park just like the old days.
    And MT would of been a HUGE DRAW for the unwanted.

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  71. I wanted to see Michael Taylor in the Phillies’ lineup as badly as anyone. I really wanted to see Ryan Howard protected by Michael Taylor in 2011. But come on, Michael Taylor is a prospect, and the Phillies wanted Halladay. He could become great, or he might wind up being another Marlon Byrd. Taking 6 years to become good. Check the stats. They are very similar players.

    I would like to believe Michael Taylor will be great starting in 2011, but the Phillies didnt feel they needed to take that chance while they are in the middle of contending for the next 2 years.
    Bottom line, You have to give up something to get something, and they got a pitcher who may win games 1-4-7 in the next 2 World series, for a couple guys who MAY be good to great.
    It isnt the horrible decision that some are making it out to be. Its just a different perspective from the team, as opposed to fans of the minor league system.

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  72. Mike77,
    So you would trade Taylor one on one for Gillies because that’s essentially what the Phils did. I’m not sure I’d do that. IMO Suanders and Taylor are > than Gillies unless they project Brown to start in 2011 and Gillies to start in 2012.

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  73. Sometimes, these guys look better on paper as prospects than they do on the field as actual major league players

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  74. Mike77: If you were responding to my post in part, read again. I said, “regardless of how you feel about the trade.” People simply have regrets at not having someone of Taylor’s caliber cheap for 6 or 7 years minimum and a possible long-term piece of Phillies history. Nothing there about whether the trade was right or wrong. That is a different issue. Not all statements are polemical.

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  75. i ‘ve been away so i didn’t have a chance to comment on the trade. i remember ehen i said the philies would sign howard and the naysayers said they’ll never pay him. i remember when i said trade for halliday and once again i read he’s too expensive. but the trading of lee is a joke. blanton and not signing polanco would have made the salary a wash. would you rather have halliday, lee, hamels and feliz at third or what we have now. we have a chance at a koufax, drysdale dynasty and we throw it away for no increase in salary. As if we could’nt afford it. i would bet my house lee would have signed the same deal as halliday if given the chance, but he was’nt. i guarantee you if amaro and montomery were pulled aside today off the record they would say they made a huge mistake. the prospects they got? they should have recieved alex liddi and gabe noriega. we traded one of the best lefties in bb for little and the pretense we cant afford a payroll of 150. mil a year. they make more than that in ticket sales, not including mercendising, parking. food, comcast, and 1210 radio, but i guess the phillies excuse makers will just continue with arent you satisfied with 2008? no i hate the yankees, mets. and red sox and do not like to be lied to. the phils got nothing, saved no money, didnt have to oh well maybe hamels will become lee.

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  76. Polanco gets $6 million a year. Feliz’s option was for $5 million or so. I don’t think you can say Feliz instead of Polanco to justify the cost. They are spending about the same money to fill the position.

    Beyond that though, I’m sick and tired of whining about the Roy Halladay trade in EVERY single damned thread. There’s a Roy Halladay trade thread. Take it there.

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  77. The point is they traded Taylor to a team that didn’t want him.
    some kind of sub. could of been found if they wanted to.

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  78. psujoe:
    No, I would’nt trade Michael Taylor one on one for Tyson Gillies. That is not what the Phillies did either. The Blue Jays wanted Michael Taylor specifically. They wanted Taylor more than Gose, Gillies or Saunders.
    The Phillies could’nt get the Jays to take Saunders because the Jays already had a side deal with Oakland for Brett Wallace. Oakland wanted Taylor. If you have an issue, maybe it should be that the Phillies valued Gillies over Saunders.
    In checking the 2 players (Saunders and Gillies) stats and watching the scouting videos, I can’t say that is a horrible decision. I can see the Phillies logic, if they feel that Tyson Gillies is at a similar talent level of Saunders. They already have a left handed corner outfield prospect that is BETTER than Saunders, named Domonic Brown. If they deem Gillies a similar talent to Saunders, a .420 OBP Centerfield prospect in AA is more of a benefit to the Phillies since Victorino is only cost controlled for the next 2 seasons. Anthony Gose won’t be ready for at least 3-4 years, and he is no sure thing.

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  79. the 2 prospects the phillies should have gotten are alex liddi, 3rd and gabriel noriega ss. quite the coincidence that seattle was the 3rd team. i guess amaro just had to have the 3 guys he got or maybe pat told him to hurry up and not look around.

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  80. John ,you missed the point I think Ice9 made. That being if the phils had kept Lee on the roster with Halladay for even 24 hours, it would of been impossible to trade him and not cause an uproar.

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  81. Mike77,

    IMO, Oakland would’ve gladly taken Saunders for Wallace as well. If the Phils pushed I’m sure Oakland would’ve been more than happy to take Saunders. Just an opinion though. I haven’t seen one service rank Gillies higher than Saunders or Taylor, but the Phillies go their man so I hope it works out.

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  82. john from Philly,

    According to most sources now, the Phillies DIDN’T talk to anyone except the Mariners for Lee. That’s not sound baseball, IMO.

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  83. nw i was well aware of that and psu that ties into your point. everybodies talking about saunders and rightfully so but just check out liddi. btw tell me moyer’s not going to be our 5th starter.

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